Manchester Dock - Liverpool

Waterways
7th February 2007, 09:48
The dock has been partially excavated by archaeologists. The passage,
granite quays (last forever) and lock gates can be clearly seen. Dating
from the 1700s. The lock gates are considered unique and original and how they are constructed is not really known. There is no known examples of gates like them.

It should be left uncovered as a part of the Canal Link, linking the north and south docks of Liverpool, which will run through it. It is to be backfilled - only in the UK would this happen, and especially Liverpool.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Martin_S/South%20Docks/070204-1.jpg

Manchester Dock and Chester basin were not a part of the interconnected
docks system. They had river locks only and took Mersey Flat barges and other barge types, taking good from Birkenhead to Liverpool. The odd seagoing vessels did us ethem. Great Western Railway once owned it. They terminated rail at Birkenhead and would use barges to take cargo to and from Liverpool as an extension to the railway - not having a rail connection at Liverpool.

The dock was built by the Duke of Bridgewater, who also built Dukes Dock, to take cargo via the Mersey and canals to the Manchester/East Lancashire
region.

Note the top shots of Chester Basin and Manchester Dock.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/146/374512739_f1b1c4c1c1.jpg?v=0

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/374512736_11d3905af4.jpg?v=0

Click on the pictures:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nationalmuseumsliverpool/sets/72157594467459766/

An old map of the area, including, Manchester Dock and Chester Basin:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/Map-PierHead-1910.jpg

From Canning Dock. The maritime museum to the left is to be built only slightly on the Manchester Dock. The river is the other side of the museum.
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2573/dsc03097gf1.jpg

captainchris
8th February 2007, 07:55
I see the good old FITZCARRALDO sitting in the background.
Chris

metallicgreen
8th February 2007, 21:20
I'm new to this site and trawling around as you do, following links etc to get a feel of what's on offer,I came to this thread. As a born and bred Scouser now living in exile,I have to say I'm sad to see the pictures of what is happening to the places my late dad took me to on a saturday morning (he worked shoreside for Coast Lines and B&I amongst others). I myself worked on various dock offices on the 'line' when I worked for HM C&E from the middle 70's. I think mis-guided planning decisions have been made or have a lot of pockets been lined in the name of 'waterfront living'

Waterways
8th February 2007, 22:07
I'm new to this site and trawling around as you do, following links etc to get a feel of what's on offer,I came to this thread. As a born and bred Scouser now living in exile,I have to say I'm sad to see the pictures of what is happening to the places my late dad took me to on a saturday morning (he worked shoreside for Coast Lines and B&I amongst others). I myself worked on various dock offices on the 'line' when I worked for HM C&E from the middle 70's. I think mis-guided planning decisions have been made or have a lot of pockets been lined in the name of 'waterfront living'

Well the South End and Central Docks are not commercial anymore - they are huge in themselves, and larger than many large ports in the world. Large parts are a World Heritage site. The lagacy our Victorian ancestors left us should be used for our benefit - live around them. I can't think of anything better.

See: http://www.saveliverpooldocks.co.uk

Princes Dock today. Three more 35 floor plus blocks are to be added:

http://petemc.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/IMG_4689_90_91.jpg

What Herman Melville, the American author, said about Princes Dock in 1849, at the height of the Iriosh famine with the city inundated with starving Irish. 1.5 million entered the port with most eventually going to America:

"Previous to this, having only seen the miserable wooden wharves and shambling piers of New York... in Liverpool I beheld long China walls of masonry; vast piers of stone; and a succession of granite-rimmed docks, completely enclosed. The extent and solidity of these structures seemed equal to what I had read of the old pyramids of Egypt. In magnitude, cost and durability the docks of Liverpool surpass all others in the world... for miles you may walk along that riverside, passing dock after dock, like a chain of immense fortresses.

Prince's Dock, of comparatively recent construction, is perhaps the largest of all and is well known to American sailors from the fact that it is mostly frequented by the American shipping. Here lie the noble New York packets, which at home are found at the foot of Wall-Street; and here also lie the Mobile and Savannah cotton ships and traders."

"Prince's Dock is generally so filled with shipping that the entrance of a newcomer is apt to occasion a universal stir among all the older occupants. The dock-masters mount the poops and forecastles of the various vessels and hail the surrounding strangers in all directions:- "Highlander ahoy! Cast off your bowline and sheer alongside the Neptune!"- "Neptune ahoy! Get out a stern line and sheer alongside the Trident!"- "Trident ahoy! Get out a bow line and drop astern of the Undaunted!" And so it runs round like a shock of electricity; touch one, and you touch all. This kind of work irritates and exasperates the sailors to the last degree.

At twelve o'clock the crews of hundreds and hundreds of ships issue in crowds from the dock gates to go to their dinner in the town. (cooking fires being strictly prohibited within the dock estate) This hour is seized upon by multitudes of beggars to plant themselves against the outside of the walls, while others stand against the curbstone to excite the charity of the seamen... The first time that I passed through this long lane of pauperism, it seemed hard to believe that such an array of misery could be furnished by any town in the world"

How Melville would have known Princes Dock:
http://www.bwpics.co.uk/gallery/liverpoolpics/princesdock.jpg

The Wirral Waters scheme, a mini Manhattan at east Float Birkenhead, is to be revealed in detail later this week:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/WirralWaters-1.jpg

makko
8th February 2007, 23:00
Hey, great photo of the "Wirral Manhattan"!

I can see my old fella walking the dog on the field!!!!

Rgds,

Dave

Waterways
9th February 2007, 12:22
Hey, great photo of the "Wirral Manhattan"!

I can see my old fella walking the dog on the field!!!!


Dave, the West Float, further inland is to remain commercial. Large vessels will sail past the new scrapers to the farther berths. Bidston Dock was foolishly filled in recently, so property speculators can make millions - at our expense. The docks is the green patch at the far end.

The Matrona being righted after capsizing at Bidston Dock - 1948. Lines were laid at 90 degrees to the ship and seven locomotives pulled her upright.
http://www.merseysideviews.com/Merseyside%20Docks/Birkenhead/images/Bir%20Dks%20026.jpg

The green patch in the foreground is the infilled Bidston Dock - the quays and transit sheds can still be seen. Liverpool is in the background across the river.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/BirkenheadDockAir-2.jpg

makko
9th February 2007, 12:56
There's the Penny bridge! I see they left the overflow, probably for the geese. The mound in the centre is the old tip and left bottom, Mosslands, my old school. Great panoramic view!

Regards,

Dave

Santos
9th February 2007, 15:25
Makko,

Apparantly the Penny Bridge is to be removed soon and be taken across to Liverpool to the Alexandra Dock to be installed as a working bridge again. I hope so, they spent an awful lot of money on it for it to lie idle as it does now.

Great photo of the West Float, Waterways I live some way behind the camera near the Harrison Drive Prom.

Chris.

Waterways
9th February 2007, 15:52
There's the Penny bridge! I see they left the overflow, probably for the geese.

Another dock was to be where that is, with branch docks off that. It was never built of course.

They should start to excavate the Bidston Dock. Obliteration of water spaces is needless.

http://www.merseysideviews.com/Merseyside%20Docks/Birkenhead/images/Bidston-Dock-plan.jpg

metallicgreen
9th February 2007, 17:55
Waterways, many thanks for your reply and the subsequent posts from you and others. I agree that the legacy we have should be left as it is. As I said in my post, my dad would take me to work with him on a saturday or sunday in some cases and this is where my love and respect of the dock system started. I spent several years working at every berth available to shipping in Liverpool,Birkenhead,Bidston (oh the iron ore boats), and the MSC up as far as Runcorn and to see what is happening and has happened is very,very
sad. It seems that the history of this area of Liverpool has had to give way to 'fasionable living' or 'progress'.
I shall now climb down from my soapbox

Waterways
9th February 2007, 19:35
Waterways, many thanks for your reply and the subsequent posts from you and others. I agree that the legacy we have should be left as it is. As I said in my post, my dad would take me to work with him on a saturday or sunday in some cases and this is where my love and respect of the dock system started. I spent several years working at every berth available to shipping in Liverpool,Birkenhead,Bidston (oh the iron ore boats), and the MSC up as far as Runcorn and to see what is happening and has happened is very,very
sad. It seems that the history of this area of Liverpool has had to give way to 'fasionable living' or 'progress'.
I shall now climb down from my soapbox

The past is not going to return, so we have to get over it. However, water spaces have to stay. If that means we live around the water spaces then brilliant. The acreage of water spaces filled in, in Liverpool and the Wirral must be about the same as what is in Venice. If Venice was filled in there would be an international outcry. The line has to be drawn.

I was born a few hundred yards from Brunswick Dock. I would like to live there one day. The memories and pictures are still around:

A Blue Funnel ship entering the Brunswick locks inthe 1950s. A rare sight as they predominantly used Birkenhead and the far north end docks, with Harrison, Elder Depster, Palm Line and Moss Hutchison and others using the south ends docks, besides foreign vessels of course. All the buildings in view, even the flats on the land behind are now gone. The only ones left are the transit sheds on the river wall to the right of the lock. The ships to the right are in Toxteth Dock - now filled in.
http://www.20thcenturyimages.co.uk/trolleyed/images/products/391.JPG