RFA to RN??

neillrush
3rd March 2007, 06:16
Has anyone got any info on the rumour going round that the Bay class are to be changed from RFA to HMS?
Rgds Neill

STRAWBERRY
3rd March 2007, 18:22
Hi Neil, I heared that too, some RFA Lads say yes (Lads who want to be able to wear badges and salute officers/or be saluted) and some say no (Lads who are devout merchant seaman and don't take crap from anyone.) If the RN want to man an RFA then surely the Argus would be the best ship. The RN are the best looked after men on that ship, they eat all the food, they dont do a day's work between them, and they are the first ashore even before the accomodation ladder is rigged. (Work That One Out!!!). So the answer?...leave the Seamanship to the professionals and keep the RFA Merchant!!! (There's not many of us left as it is!) Andy

Hugh MacLean
3rd March 2007, 19:17
Hello Andy,

I have to say I don't know anything about the RN manning any RFA ships and I don't see any reason why they would, but I think the above was uncalled for.
You obviously do not rate your fellow seamen from the RN very highly and you are entitled to your opinion. Your comments however, are disappointing and disrespectful.

Aye

Brian Twyman
3rd March 2007, 20:09
Having served in both the RFA and the RNZN and having spent a long time with the RN, I feel competent to comment. There will always be those people who make undeserved detrimental comments about the other lot. The post above by Strawberry is an example which denigrates both. Both services are very professional and complement each other...but they are different and serve under very different conditions of service. But they are all part of the same team, so disloyalty towards other team members is counter productive, to put it nicely. I salute everybody who went to the Falklands.
Best regard to both the RFA and the RN,
Brian

Lancastrian
3rd March 2007, 20:09
Regardless of the above, the original rumour was that two of the class were to change flag. The latest rumour is that it will be all four. Regrettable for those of us who were/are involved with the RFA, but probably inevitable in today's political climate.

slick
3rd March 2007, 20:58
All,
Strawberry's acidic post is to be deplored it would appear to written from a position of dare I say it blissful unawareness.
I served in the RFA for 32 years and I can honestly say there was mutual respect from both Services to the expertise of one and other.
Indeed this was never more amply shown than during the Falklands War (it was never a Conflict to those who were there).
Officers, PO's, and Crew formed friendships which continue long after parting Company after embarkations.
As for saluting etc that is the nature of the Royal Navy and the return of saluting to personnel of the RFA is standard.
I would go so far as to say that the RFA is one of the last repositories of Seamanship in the Merchant Navy.
To have your backside kicked for three weeks during a "work up" in every aspect of RAS'ing, Boatwork, NBCD Exercises, Power Failures, Blind Pilotages, Flight Deck work, and other exercises of all types (by Wreckers (Staff)) led by an Australian Officer (RAN) known affectionately as Skippy) and to culminate in a Thursday War with Action Messing etc plus a RAS in full NBCD dress joins us hip and thigh with the Royal Navy our Prime Customer changes your perception of the Royal Navy.
RFA personnel of all ranks go on just about every course available to RN Personnel and are to my certain knowledge are treated identically as part of the greatest pound for pound seagoing fighting force at sea today.
Never forget that when experts talk Tactics professionals talk Logistics, and we were able to do something 8,000 miles from home that Argentines were not able to do less than 800 miles from their home, due in no small part to the Royal Fleet Auxiliary, my letter to the Editor of the Times July 20 1994 refers.
Oh!, by the way I paid for all my CTP's in 1982.
Yours aye,
Slick

Brian Twyman
4th March 2007, 00:05
Well said Slick, I applaud all you remarks. (Applause)
Can you please tell us more about this rumour ? e.g.:
Where did it start ? Who started it ? Where in the hierachy did it start ?
What has RFA leadership and Admiralty said in response to the rumour ?

I have experienced the unease that such rumours stir within and fully appreciate RFA concerns. I hope it is resolved promptly for you RFA guys.
Sincerely
Brian

Peter4447
4th March 2007, 00:29
Hi Andy
I was somehwhat surprised at your post although I think I can understand where you are coming from. When I took over Aggie Weston's at Portland, amongst my orders was one that said: "We don't want the RFA in here they are only Merchant seaman". I fought tooth and nail to overturn that ruling and, in the end I won. As a result we had many RFA families staying with us and the RN Chaplain gave us 100% support in dealing with any problems that occured (such as berevement) with the RFA lads. Both my Wife and I also enjoyed many happy Sunday lunchtimes as guests on the Black Rover.

The reason I was able to overturn that ruling is because I finally got the powers that be to realise that the funnel colour is the same, RN's serve in RFA's and RFA crews now go through virtually the same training as the RN.

With 2,200 personnel the RFA remains the biggest employer of British Merchant seaman and I, for one, cannot understand the logic in wanting to put RFA's into the RN. Certainly I hope it will not happen.

Equally, I know that the RN nearly always grabs the headlines so that the RFA is so often seen as the 'cinderella' service- again this is totally wrong in my opinion but, on this occasion and whilst respecting your right to say it, I do feel that your comment is both unfair and unnecessary.

Peter4447

Lancastrian
4th March 2007, 13:01
Brian, you are being a bit optimistic asking those questions! Rumours like these come from people who have access to official information which they are unable to reveal for fear of getting the sack or being thrown in jail. So they leak it anonymously and it is passed on without attribution.

Mad Landsman
4th March 2007, 20:55
Bearing in mind that Strawberry had 14 years service with the RFA, it occurs to me that he has a major chip on his shoulder, This may or may not be justified depending on your point of view (I am just a bystander).
Perhaps, instead of outright castigation, someone should ask: Why?

I'll get back in my box now....

jbryce
4th March 2007, 21:34
I don't think that the RN has the personnel to crew these ships.
It is already being mooted that HMS Bulwark will be downgraded to a training role, with a reduced crew, and what about the two new Super Aircraft Carriers - where will the crew for those come from??
They are struggling to crew HMS Gleaner.

Brian Twyman
4th March 2007, 22:56
Brian, you are being a bit optimistic asking those questions! Rumours like these come from people who have access to official information which they are unable to reveal for fear of getting the sack or being thrown in jail. So they leak it anonymously and it is passed on without attribution.

It is not optimism, it is determination. If someone was spreading rumours affecting my crew I would go to the wall to get them answers. That is my leadership style.
Brian

Lancastrian
5th March 2007, 09:29
Very commendable! But in this case the matter is probably still under discussion and until a decision is made and and announcement made there isnt much that can be done in public. My sources say the "RFA Leadership" are fighting it tooth and nail. We shall have to wait and see.

jazz606
5th March 2007, 10:44
I did a little time in the RFA after serving my time and doing a couple of trips as 3rd mate with Lyles. I was astonished at the waste and inefficiency - but then it wasn't a commercial operation. With regard to seamanship both the RN and the RFA get to do things that the MN doesn't, so a direct comparison isn't valid. In my own experience (which is extremely varied) I would say that the commercial mariner is at least the equal of his RFA RN counterpart. If you want to try some real seamanship try working on a tug supply boat or a fishing vessel in the North Sea.

STRAWBERRY
8th March 2007, 14:46
Hello all, Having just read your post's it is quite obvious that I have offended some. This I appologise for as I am not a nasty person, however, having read posts that say the RN and RFA get on with each other somewhat strange. There has always been some animosity between both services, (in my time with the RFA anyway). The comment I made came from experiance, but mostly aboard the Argus. The RFA lads are treated as the 2nd class Crew even though the ship is an RFA. As you can imagine...this gets the RFA back-up. Please don't think I hate the RN. They are a Fantastic force, and very heroic in bad situations, they are proffessional in what they do. My gripe is only with the way the RN are always to the forefront and RFA behind. Peter 4447 has hit the nail on the head. We came back from the Gulf war 1991 with frigates and destroyers, they went alongside in devonport to a hero's welcome, bands playing, bunting waving in the wind, loved one cheering them home....we entered Plymouth sound to a Gash barge. Jealous? yeh perhaps, but this is indicative of the routine. As for my two trips on Argus, well, my comment still stands. I'm sorry if it upset you, but, I was there and I told it like it was. Best wishes to you all Andy

STRAWBERRY
8th March 2007, 18:13
Bearing in mind that Strawberry had 14 years service with the RFA, it occurs to me that he has a major chip on his shoulder, This may or may not be justified depending on your point of view (I am just a bystander).
Perhaps, instead of outright castigation, someone should ask: Why?

I'll get back in my box now....

Not quite a Chip Clockman, more a sort of French Fry...

STRAWBERRY
8th March 2007, 18:23
[QUOTE=slick;112544]All,
Strawberry's acidic post is to be deplored it would appear to written from a position of dare I say it blissful unawareness.
I served in the RFA for 32 years and I can honestly say there was mutual respect from both Services to the expertise of one and other.

Hi Slick, With the greatest respect to you...Do I take it that you were a serving Officer within the RFA?

Things are a little different below decks. The fact that you can spend six or more months on one ship without actually seeing certain Officers who are serving on the very same ship for the same 6 or more months, tells you something. My Kindest regards to you! Andy(A)

Brian Twyman
9th March 2007, 02:06
Hi Andy !
Thanks for your post, I admire you for your response ! (Thumb) Knowing where you are coming from, I can sympathise. My RFA time was many moons ago, and yes the RFA was a second class citizen then to some of the RN. (Old school tie brigade !) During my RNZN service the Kiwis always got on well with the RFAs on the Far East Station. I also worked 10 years for the RNZN as a civilian. At first I felt rather 2nd. class but over recent years much has been done to create a 'Team Defence' in NZ. I guess having RN onboard an RFA highlighted the differences for you and must have caused some ill feeling. It really should have been sorted out onboard at the time.
Anyway, Andy, what is the latest on the 'takeover' ?
Cheers
Brian

STRAWBERRY
9th March 2007, 10:25
Sorry Brian, I have no Idea what is going on, I occasionaly meet a few RFA lads wandering the port at Portland doing the Bulkhead Shuffell without Bulkheads actually being there, and some say yes, and some say no, which to me means the Rumour must have originated from the famous, neigh...Infamous "Galley Radio". It's best to wait until you hear it on the News I guess. Kind Regards....Andy

waimea
9th March 2007, 11:47
I served 8 years in the RNZN and 14 years in the MN. never in the RFA but did many a RAS with them and always thought them to be very efficient. Did plenty RAS with Chinese RFA crews in the days of the Far East Fleet and also found them very impressive, plus Maltese on RFAs; no difference. On the subject of seamanship, there is no comparison re RN and MN, the MN in those days would win hands down. Try spending 4.5 years on a rig tender in Bass Strait. But having said that, all the ex RN men I sailed with in the MN all turned into good seamen which suggests they had a good grounding in the first place (me included). Of course these days there is no seamanship required in the MN unless one is in the offshore oil industry or in the RFA. Of course if one is an ex RFA officer comparing himself to an RN officer, then it would be a non contest. My experience of RN and RNZN officers was that the majority were ponces.

Brian Twyman
9th March 2007, 12:26
Being an ex RFA and ex RNZN officer I consider myself in your minority. [=P]
Brian

Peter4447
9th March 2007, 13:13
My experience of RN and RNZN officers was that the majority were ponces.

Ponce = a man who is effeminate in his manner and fussy in the way he dresses.

Sorry Waimea can only remember one who could have fitted your unkind description during my years in the Grey Funnel Line!

Peter4447(MAD)

Brian Twyman
10th March 2007, 07:58
Thank you Peter, that certainly lets me out ! :sweat: Mind you, I never minded being called 'Turd Mate' either !

Brian

waimea
10th March 2007, 08:19
OK- Brian and Peter, point taken - bad choice of word, but I didn't say all, just preferred my skippers and mates in the MN. Don't know when you were in the RNZN Brian, but I was a nav/yeo and served with one good Nav, Scruffs Cameron. Did you know him? Of course he came up from the lower deck - do I sound slightly bias?

Brian Twyman
10th March 2007, 10:24
Hi !
No offence taken ! I guess that is Neil ? Cameron. Never got to know him well, he joined as CO of Kiama when I was XO and ship was in refit. I moved up to North Head before she went to sea and started up the Nav. School. Taught lots of Nav Yeos as well as all the Nav Courses.! Loved the Nav but not the Parade Ground !
Cheers
Brian

Hague
10th March 2007, 11:37
The above exchanges are sufficient to confirm to me that almost 50 years ago on entering the Blue Funnel I made the right decision.
Brgds
Hague

Brian Twyman
11th March 2007, 13:05
Hi guys
We have strayed quite a way from the subject of the thread ! Don't want dear benjidog to get onto us. (Ouch) So what is the update on the RN taking over some RFAs. please ?
Brian

waimea
13th March 2007, 10:44
Yes Brian, Neil Cameron. That was about the time I finished my stretch. That was his first command and I had been his nav/yeo on Waikato. He took me for my course at North Head some years earlier. The day before Waikato sailed for up top in about 1971, he asked me if I wanted to join, so I did a pier head jump. I had had just been drafted back to Philly after two years at Wakefield as a Computer Operator. I was the only L/S RP3 Nav/Yeo in the navy as I couldn't do a 2s course due to being trained as a Com/Op (there were two of us). On Taranaki as a RP basic and 3 in 65/66 my RPO was Jerry Marlow who now lives in Aus and I catch with him now and then. He is in his 70s. He reckons I was a cheeky young bastard back in 1965 and that I haven't changed, accept that I am now a cheeky old bastard. He still hasn't forgiven me for the fact that I kept my L/S rate without having to do a 2s course.Scruffs was a bit of a MN buff as he used to get up on North Head and photograph all the 'home boats' as they arrived or departed. I joined the MN after I got out and was thrown into masts and derricks. I recall my first Bos'un when I told him I was straight out of the Andrew saying "Jesus, thats all I need".

Graybeard
14th March 2007, 14:18
I am sorry to see that there is still antagonism between the RFA, RN and MN. I went to an MN pre-sea training college. When I discovered the RFA was accessible through the MN college I had no hesitation but to apply. The MN Staff sat on my application for a term to try and disuade me to join the RFA and join P&O like the other Cadet Captains.

I had a relatively successful and enjoyable career with the RFA for 23 years. During that time I was also RNR List One and spent some time on RN ships. They were different but also enjoyable times. I was amused at certain comments made by RN people, unaware I was RFA. However, when we had to prepare for an inspection and I was able to pop on board an RFA in Portland and get deck scrubbers, Atlas, white undercoat etc, suddenly the RFA was readily appreciated!

We are 3 different services, and in the MN as was, P&O looked down on Bank Line, Deep sea looked down on short sea ferry people, tanker people thought themselves exclusive, cargo people thought tankermen were "mad". And everyone, absolutely everyone despised the RFA - and we knew we were exclusive! RFA - Ready For Anything - and we were and probably still are.

Look at are service histories. I am currently reading Robert Massie's "Castle of Steel". It is interesting because it reveals the RN afloat's frustrations and difficulties with the Admiralty that I can associate with service in the RFA. Look at the MN service in WW2. More MN people died in WW2 than in any other service. MN people whose ships were sunk had their pay stopped from the date of sinking, for the first couple of years of the war - imagine that.

What am I saying? Everyone has served their country well, when asked. Everybody has different traditions and standards of service. The sea is our common enemy. Take your eyes off her and she will catch you out. If you have to have a go at someone else, look at yourself - the problem may be there.

I enjoyed all three services. I wish I was at sea now and not working for a shoreside crew who have no sense of camaraderie, fun or adventure.

Hague
14th March 2007, 14:26
I am sorry to see that there is still antagonism between the RFA, RN and MN. I went to an MN pre-sea training college. When I discovered the RFA was accessible through the MN college I had no hesitation but to apply. The MN Staff sat on my application for a term to try and disuade me to join the RFA and join P&O like the other Cadet Captains.

I had a relatively successful and enjoyable career with the RFA for 23 years. During that time I was also RNR List One and spent some time on RN ships. They were different but also enjoyable times. I was amused at certain comments made by RN people, unaware I was RFA. However, when we had to prepare for an inspection and I was able to pop on board an RFA in Portland and get deck scrubbers, Atlas, white undercoat etc, suddenly the RFA was readily appreciated!

We are 3 different services, and in the MN as was, P&O looked down on Bank Line, Deep sea looked down on short sea ferry people, tanker people thought themselves exclusive, cargo people thought tankermen were "mad". And everyone, absolutely everyone despised the RFA - and we knew we were exclusive! RFA - Ready For Anything - and we were and probably still are.

Look at are service histories. I am currently reading Robert Massie's "Castle of Steel". It is interesting because it reveals the RN afloat's frustrations and difficulties with the Admiralty that I can associate with service in the RFA. Look at the MN service in WW2. More MN people died in WW2 than in any other service. MN people whose ships were sunk had their pay stopped from the date of sinking, for the first couple of years of the war - imagine that.

What am I saying? Everyone has served their country well, when asked. Everybody has different traditions and standards of service. The sea is our common enemy. Take your eyes off her and she will catch you out. If you have to have a go at someone else, look at yourself - the problem may be there.

I enjoyed all three services. I wish I was at sea now and not working for a shoreside crew who have no sense of camaraderie, fun or adventure.

Greybeard,
You forgot the other service, The BLUE FUNNEL LINE. We looked down on everyone.
Brgds
Hague

Brian Twyman
14th March 2007, 20:19
Greybeard
Thanks for that, a man after my own heart ! Seafarers are different because they perform different jobs on various ships of many companies. But they do have a common bond..the sea. Any antagonisms are surely due to attitude. Nobody can make you feel second class: that may be their opinion but that is the way they see you.... and that is their problem. So just get on with today wherever you are, do the best job you can and be at peace with yourself. As Theodore Roosevelt said :
"It is not the critic who counts, nor the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood., who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again & again because there is no effort without error and shortcomings, who knows the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at his best knows in the end the high achievement of triumph and who, at his worst, if he fails while daring greatly, knows his place shall never be with those timid and cold souls who know neither victory or defeat."
Brian

jbryce
21st March 2007, 13:31
I never came across any animosity between RFA and RN in my time in the RN, during the 60's and early 70's. Friendly rivalry, maybe, but we had the same freindly rivalry within the service between, say, the Fleet Air Arm and General Service, or General Service and Submariners. However, we all had a mutual respect for one another, even if the submariners got more pay, and the Fleet Air Arm "seemed" to have better messes than us :-)

Animosity, No.

thunderd
3rd April 2007, 01:23
I have been a bit surprised at the number of photos of RFA vessels posted. I was under the (obviously incorrect) impression that the fleet consisted of a few tankers and supply vessels.

I also realise that along with RN and MN vessels it is probably a bit run down now but I wonder if someone would kindly give me an approximation of the number of vessels that were in the fleet at it's peak compared to how many there are today.

Lancastrian
3rd April 2007, 20:30
The RFA is a surprising outfit!. Today there are only 15 ships and we understand some of these are under threat. The peak was probably in the early post war years around 1947 - 50 when there were 49 tankers, at least 11 stores ships and one hospital ship making 61 ( Not including Tugs & Salvage vessels which were a seperate sub-department). This is off the top of my head so I will happily be challenged by anyone who can count more.

James_C
10th April 2007, 15:22
Read in the NUMAST Telegraph today that the Oakleaf and Brambleleaf are to be sold for disposal later this year, with the Sir Bedivere following soon after.
Fort Victoria (one of the newer ships) is going into a state of "extended readiness" (fancy words for layup) later this month.
RFA are looking to cut 200 jobs; 75 Officers, the rest ratings.
They expect they can achieve his through "natural wastage" (those retiring and increased use of the breathalyser no doubt).
Cadet intake this year has also been cut by 2/3 from 30 to 10.
Not looking good at all for the RFA, seems the Treasury are cutting everything to the bone - even more than usual.

thunderd
11th April 2007, 00:36
Lancastrian thanks for your response, I only wanted an approximation which you kindly gave, and we promise not to hang you from the yardarm if someone corrects you LOL

Brian Twyman
11th April 2007, 12:01
So sorry to see further cuts to the RFA. Very best wishes to all our SN members in the RFA, I hope things work out OK for you all (Thumb)

Graybeard
1st May 2007, 15:08
I'd forgotten! Thanks for reminding me.
I remember a Blue Flue man telling me Alfred Holt's prayer.
"Build my funnels tall and blue,
And, God, protect my Chinese crew!"
They were the other Navy - you're right.
Best regards
Mike

Greybeard
Thanks for that, a man after my own heart ! Seafarers are different because they perform different jobs on various ships of many companies. But they do have a common bond..the sea. Any antagonisms are surely due to attitude. Nobody can make you feel second class: that may be their opinion but that is the way they see you.... and that is their problem. So just get on with today wherever you are, do the best job you can and be at peace with yourself. As Theodore Roosevelt said :
"It is not the critic who counts, nor the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood., who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again & again because there is no effort without error and shortcomings, who knows the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at his best knows in the end the high achievement of triumph and who, at his worst, if he fails while daring greatly, knows his place shall never be with those timid and cold souls who know neither victory or defeat."
Brian

cboots
2nd May 2007, 03:06
You guys must have sailed on some very strange ships because in all my time at sea - 1965 to 1979 - I never once heard anyone talk of being in any kind of ''service". As to "looking down" on the navy or the RFA, that also is a new one on me. Obviously I can only speak of my own experience, perhaps those in P & O and Blue Funnel did think of themselves as being in a service, but the rest of us certainly didn't. The odd derogatory remark may have been made in regard to the navy, but it would have been more by way of something different and not well understood; you should have heard what we said about shoresiders. As to the RFA, I doubt if most of us were more than vaguely aware of its existence. Outfits were judged in respect of pay and conditions, the reputation of their feeding, their ships, and their runs; I don't think snobbery came into it.
CBoots

Derick Gray
30th May 2007, 00:12
Hi all...I have recently left Fort George and to my understanding the RN are taking two of the Bay class ships at some point. They are not going to be manning RFA ships but will become RN vessels under the white ensign. As with most of these things it is still only rumours.

Regards,

Derick

Ventry
30th May 2007, 00:23
I would have thought that would have been the dream of every RFA man! I never met one who wasn't a frustrated Naval type.

James_C
30th May 2007, 00:41
Derick,
I've been told RN will be taking over 1 Bay Boat within the next year or two. Obviously a ship that size crewed by 40 odd men will be a major culture shock to the RN, thus why they'll only be taking it on trial.
After that, who knows.

Lancastrian
30th May 2007, 13:52
Well Ventry you obviously didnt meet me! Whilst there were always a few
frustrated types who were known as "plastic Rodneys" , most of us were quite happy to work in support of the RN, and to do so effectively we had to understand their way of doing things, but we certainly had no wish to join.
The latest from Commodore RFA in a speech at the 2007 Reunion is that the matter of the Bay class is still under discussion and he is fighting tooth and nail using economic arguments.

King Ratt
30th May 2007, 17:30
For Ventry

Ditto Lancastrian's comments.

CEYLON220
31st May 2007, 22:02
STRAWBERRY-MATE, I HOPE YOU DON`T MIND ME CALLING YOU MATE AS I BELIEVE BOTH RFA AND RN OR OTHER NAVIES ARE BROTHERS IN ARMS ,WE RELY ON EACH OTHER AT SEA, I HAD MATES ON THE RFAs RESURGENT WHILE SERVING OUT IN THE FAR EAST AND GOOD MATES THEY WERE AND THIS WAS IN 1958/9 AND UNLESS THINGS HAVE CHANGED OVER THE YEARS I STILL BELIEVE BOTH SERVICES GET ALONG WITH EACH OTHER, DON`T KNOCK YOUR FELLOW SEAMEN -------NO OFFENCE MATE.

Hague
31st May 2007, 22:08
You guys must have sailed on some very strange ships because in all my time at sea - 1965 to 1979 - I never once heard anyone talk of being in any kind of ''service". As to "looking down" on the navy or the RFA, that also is a new one on me. Obviously I can only speak of my own experience, perhaps those in P & O and Blue Funnel did think of themselves as being in a service, but the rest of us certainly didn't. The odd derogatory remark may have been made in regard to the navy, but it would have been more by way of something different and not well understood; you should have heard what we said about shoresiders. As to the RFA, I doubt if most of us were more than vaguely aware of its existence. Outfits were judged in respect of pay and conditions, the reputation of their feeding, their ships, and their runs; I don't think snobbery came into it.
CBoots

CBoots,
I can assure you that we in the Blue Funnel never looked upon ourselves as being in service. We were however, aware that we were better than others but then, I am sure you already knew that.
Brgds

cboots
1st June 2007, 06:14
Well Hague, I'd be just a trite careful there mate, or you may just wind up making my point for me.
CBoots

frannysea
1st July 2007, 17:25
not happening in the near future, as the bean counters say where the cheapest to run the bay boats, ive just come off one and we would gladly hand them, and the argus to the RN,,,,but then we loose a few hundred seafarers jobs,,,,, there crap in bad weather,some cabins don,t have portholes,the fridges are 4 decks below the galley, the saloon is 6 decks above the galley,the crew are unaminous in agreeing that the RN are welcome to them,,,

frannysea
1st July 2007, 17:29
[=P] [=P] not happening in the near future, as the bean counters say where the cheapest to run the bay boats, ive just come off one and we would gladly hand them, and the argus to the RN,,,,but then we loose a few hundred seafarers jobs,,,,, there crap in bad weather,some cabins don,t have portholes,the fridges are 4 decks below the galley, the saloon is 6 decks above the galley,the crew are unaminous in agreeing that the RN are welcome to them,,,

STRAWBERRY
1st July 2007, 21:23
STRAWBERRY-MATE, I HOPE YOU DON`T MIND ME CALLING YOU MATE AS I BELIEVE BOTH RFA AND RN OR OTHER NAVIES ARE BROTHERS IN ARMS ,WE RELY ON EACH OTHER AT SEA, I HAD MATES ON THE RFAs RESURGENT WHILE SERVING OUT IN THE FAR EAST AND GOOD MATES THEY WERE AND THIS WAS IN 1958/9 AND UNLESS THINGS HAVE CHANGED OVER THE YEARS I STILL BELIEVE BOTH SERVICES GET ALONG WITH EACH OTHER, DON`T KNOCK YOUR FELLOW SEAMEN -------NO OFFENCE MATE.
No No Offence taken....as I said before, I saw it, I was there...14 years. Regards! A

GARY1
3rd July 2007, 13:49
Having recently left Rfa Fort George i was informed Rfa Lyme Bay having recently completing build etc will go under the "WHITE ENSIGN AFTER COMPLETION OF FULL TRIALS AND ASSESMENT ETC".
It will intresting if that does go to the RN liking it may be possible that they will then possible take over a further Bay class of ship.
Having served in the RFA FOR 32 YEARS and with the "new sponsered reserve now in place from 01 July 07 optional to sign up to although new recruits will sign up without the option. A payment of £300 Per Year to all SR who sign up to it".
This will bring the RFA AND RN closer and the discussion more debated than ever to what will happen now this new chapter in the life of RFA over 100 years in exsistance.!!!
On the subject of THE RFA AND RN discussion my 2 daughters serve in the RN one ashore and one on a ship although i am happy that they are in full time employment and life is comfortable for them.
I at times get frustrated with the way on RFA ships that the RN are never around once the ships gets along side and thats never going to change i believe but maybe SR may have a new insight on the way ahead to a very intresting next few years for both the RFA AND RN on the future changes this may bring.
Any one willing to predict what this change may bring?

Lancastrian
27th July 2007, 11:54
Good news. A reliable source has reported that a decision has been made that the Bay class will remain under RFA manning until at least 2020. (Smoke)

James MacDonald
27th July 2007, 19:42
Hmmm !! Where does the coasting men come in the pecking order.

clankie
30th July 2007, 17:03
Hmmm !! Where does the coasting men come in the pecking order.

Please explain what you mean.

dab
30th July 2007, 21:12
Do the RN have enough crew to man RFAs? My memory is fading now, but I remember doing a, (I think the term was "Admirals sea inspection") on board RFA Tidepool when Commander "E" asked what staff we had. When he was told two plus a fireman he seemed confused. He then asked, who actually does the replacing of motors/pumps etc. When I replied "we do", he appeared even more confused. My point being that the electrical systems then were managed by one sometimes two E/O with the assistance of an engine room fireman. Of course the Chief/ Eng had overall responsibility for the section. It appeared that the RN had no concept as to how few crew it took to man an RFA. Aplogies to any RN or ex RN if they feel this does not portray the truth. However this is as true as I remember.
Dave Burns RFA 1963/1971.

seahawk261
1st August 2007, 20:49
i'm ex rn/rfa....when i was rn i did many a ras with the rfa mostly at ungodly hours (my mum always told me to be in bed by 10pm)...and i found them very professional....it was the main reason i went rfa when my time was up....my last 4 trips with them was on rfa argus...i got on great with all the rn guys...exept one.....an rn ltcdr.....he treated us rfa like lower creatures of the sea....a bit of gold on his shoulder made him very arrogant...till he met me....lol
he tried to get into the radio room...where he was not authorized to go...and he reported me to the master for insubordination.....needless to say the master agreed with me....as he was not on the authorized list allowed access.
that was at the start of the trip......he never came near the radio room for the next 4 months...at least while i was on watch......i wonder why.....lol

STRAWBERRY
5th August 2007, 19:39
Good Man Seahawk! Just doing your Job!!

slick
7th August 2007, 19:54
All,
I see from today's Daily Telegraph (7th. August 2007) under Britannia Graduations some 16 Royal Fleet Auxiliary Cadets and RTO's graduating, the Royal Fleet Auxiliary is joined hip and thigh (up to a point) to the Royal Navy.
However I think Congratulations are due all round.
Yours aye,
Slick

clankie
7th August 2007, 21:17
Congratulations (BZ's) to all those RFA Officers graduating from Britannia RNC. However, I do hear the words of Black Sam Dunlop echoing in my ears. (Thumb)

Lancastrian
7th August 2007, 21:39
Would those words be repeatable?

neillrush
25th August 2007, 09:00
Having started all this very amusing chatter in the first place I would like to say that the "Horses Mouth" has stated categorically that NO Bay Class will be transferred to the RN. Plans are to have one Bay in the Caribbean during the Hurricane season so as to "Free up" whichever Wave-class is there at any one time, one will be in the Gulf and the other two around wherever they are needed, I believe Cardigan is set for the Gulf later this year while Largs heads off to the warmer climes soon, and also plans for the MARS ships to be built in Europe have stirred up a real Hornets Nest and the decision is apparently being reconsidered.
All the best to all
Neill
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/neillgrush/B_CardiganBay.jpg
http://www.gogibraltarsite.com/RFA.html

albert.s.i
3rd September 2007, 10:35
hi all, i joined the wave king north sheilds 1951 did a 5 month trip to the gulf abadan was where we loaded fuel oil for singapore aden and gibralter i found the crew quarters aft were mn and midships were r.n and most of senior officers were r.n reserves, and as far as proffectionals are concerned after the war an ex navy seaman who joined the merchant navy signed on as efficient deck hand but who cares! albert s.i

boulton
28th September 2007, 15:09
Has anyone got any info on the rumour going round that the Bay class are to be changed from RFA to HMS?
Rgds Neill

RFA - Evolution not revolution

(The following is taken from NAVY NEWS, October 2007 issue, page 7 - just received - all copyright acknowledged).

The Navy’s vital auxiliary fleet will largely remain as it is, senior officers have ruled after a two-year review.

The Royal Fleet Auxiliary - which operates repair vessels, tankers, training ships and floating warehouses to support the RN’s global operations - has found itself increasingly fulfilling front-line roles in recent years.

Auxiliaries can currently be found conducting anti-drug operations in the Caribbean (RFA Wave Ruler) and serving as a mother ship for Iraqi Navy trainees in the Gulf (RFA Sir Bedivere).

Such roles are very different from the ones the fleet carried out two decades ago - and prompted senior officials at Fleet Headquarters in Portsmouth to look at the long-term future of the RFA.

Six options for the future auxiliary fleet were considered by top brass:

- do nothing;

- use a commercial support fleet;

- use a mix of commercial/RN/RFA;

- bring some of the RFA Fleet into the RN, notably the Bay-class landing support ships;

- bring the RFA entirely under RN control and manning;

- or, go for an evolved RFA.

The Navy Board has decided that the RFA - founded in 1905 - should remain a separate service and should “evolve”, with RFA practices increasingly mirroring those in the Senior Service; wherever possible, training for RFA sailors will take place alongside their RN counterparts.

The “Evolved RFA” idea has now been endorsed by the Navy Board but a lot more work is required as fleet HQ looks to plan for an “afloat support fleet” which will be capable of meeting the needs of the Royal Navy of 2020.

Maritime trade unions and all the RFA’s personnel will be consulted about any future changes to the auxiliary fleet’s structure.

Lancastrian
29th September 2007, 09:37
RFA - Evolution not revolution
This has already been posted as a seperate thread on 21 September. (Smoke)

Bill Davies
29th September 2007, 11:41
Have never sailed with anyone from the RFA but would like to know what was the influence/deciding factor in opting for the RFA as opposed to the the 'run of the mill' companies. A serious question as I have not until this morning given the RFA any consideration at all.

OLD STRAWBERRY
29th September 2007, 13:54
I would suggest Bill that the ' run of the mill' companies are mostly foreigners these days and doesn't bear thinking about. The RFA boys are a dedicated skillfully trained unit for the job, they do and will go anywhere at anytime and I would say irreplaceable. Even the possibility of RN Manning is unthinkable as for a start they wouldn't have the seamanship skills and they would probably double if not treble the amount of personnel on each vessel. So I say leave 'em alone they are doing a Brilliant job always have and always will.
Regards.

Bill Davies
29th September 2007, 14:02
I would suggest Bill that the ' run of the mill' companies are mostly foreigners these days and doesn't bear thinking about. The RFA boys are a dedicated skillfully trained unit for the job, they do and will go anywhere at anytime and I would say irreplaceable. Even the possibility of RN Manning is unthinkable as for a start they wouldn't have the seamanship skills and they would probably double if not treble the amount of personnel on each vessel. So I say leave 'em alone they are doing a Brilliant job always have and always will.
Regards.

I find the'leave them alone' rather offensive and was merely asking a question and would have appreciated a civil reply rather defensive rhetoric!

OLD STRAWBERRY
29th September 2007, 14:45
Hey Bill, No offence intended. I was not asking You to leave them alone, I was merely referring to the thread itself.You are fully entitled to ask the question but I was only replying with My thoughts.Having served in the RFA twice Myself I know quite a bit of what they do. So My appologies to you Sir if you felt offended.
Regards To You. Tony.

Lancastrian
29th September 2007, 14:54
I would suggest the deciding factors in my day were, in no particular order:-
Working for "your country" rather than the owners/shareholders.
Job and pension security.
Variety of ships and voyages.
Absence of commercial pressures, though there were others.
Reasonable pay and probably a better social life.
The security bit became ever more important as the British MN went into severe decline. (Smoke)

Hugh MacLean
29th September 2007, 15:17
RN Manning is unthinkable as for a start they wouldn't have the seamanship skills.
Regards.

Old Strawbs, is that your honest opinion or are you just fishing.
Regards

Pat Thompson
29th September 2007, 15:33
Greetings,

No Sea to Rough no muff to Tough....(exclam)

Aye

Pat Thompson

You can't get enough pictures of "O'Boats"

OLD STRAWBERRY
29th September 2007, 15:40
Old Strawbs, is that your honest opinion or are you just fishing.
Regards

Absolutely Hugh, You have only got to watch a Naval Rating trying to throw a heaving line to see what I mean.My point being that the RN lads are brilliant In their own ships, they are technicians not seamen they do 6 Wks at "HMS Raleigh" basic training then go off to do their technical training and really don't learn much seamanship. So I say leave them to the job they are trained for. I am sure You were a good seaman in Your day Hugh.
Regards. Tony.