Castle R's laid up Southampton before sale.

andysk
8th March 2007, 11:08
Hi All ...

I have a slide (see below) taken by a friend of 3 'R' fruit ships laid up on 101 berth in Southampton. I believe it was taken in May 1971, but it's unfortunately unlabelled.

I am looking for assistance in identifying the vessels; I scanned it in at high res with mixed results.

The inner-most one is Riebeeck, I can read the name on the scan, but the other two are not decipherable.

I believe the centre one is the Richmnond; the two square wheelhouse windows tally with the pic in the gallery on here. However, a pic in Peter Newall's U-C Line book shows her with three square windows - hence some confusion !

The outer one is unknown, though the plate on the bow close to the anchor hawse pipe leads me to believe she is one of the Richmond's sisters. I suspect she is probably the Rowallan, as they all arrived in the Far East in the same week for scrap.

If anybody has access to Southampton port records, or Lloyds blue lists of that time, that would help to firmly identify them.

Thanks in advance ....

Cheers

Andy

Cisco
9th March 2007, 02:18
Gday Andy,

This is from Lloyd's Shipping Index June 9, 1971

Richmond Castle Durban May 7th....Cardiff. Sd East London May 9th, Sold Chinese breakers.

Riebeeck Castle Cape Town May 26th...Southampton. Ar Teneriffe June 8th

Rowallan Castle Cape Town May 7th... Southampton. Arr June 5th

Roxburgh Castle Southampton May 29th Port Elizabeth. Sd Las Palmas June 3rd. Sold Chinese Breakers

Rustenburg Castle Port Elizabeth May 19 ...Gothenburg & UK. Sd Cape Town May 26th - Sold chinese Breakers.

So...we have the Riebeek and that dates the pic as 12th June or later.

Rowallan was in Southampton on 5th June so we can count her in.....

Interesting with Richmond...no mention since sailing from SA on the 9th May but she wasn't far away in Mid June.

Roxburgh was going the wrong way and Rustenburg could not have been in Southampton until end of June.

So I reckon you have them sorted.

Edited to add.....maybe Rowallan mid and Richmond outer?

Cheers

Cisco

flyer682
9th March 2007, 09:20
A good bit of detective work Cisco - well done! :)

andysk
9th March 2007, 18:12
Hi Cisco ....

Many thanks for this, that's a great and most welcome piece of research - much appreciated.

If the RICHMOND is the outer one, the clincher will be if the ROWALLAN had two bridge front square windows .....

Has anyone got a pic of her from a forward quarter ? All the ones I have seen are aft quarter views.

Cheers

Andy

zelo1954
9th March 2007, 19:48
Folks:
I have photos of these vessels gleaned from various sources. A great photo of Rowallan Castle has recently appeared on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ro158-Union-Castle-Cargo-Ship-Rowallan-Castle-photo_W0QQitemZ280089946277QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6974 6QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

As you can see, if she is in your photo, she cannot be the centre vessel - UNLESS the Ebay photo is the 1939 Rowallan Castle. That I cannot say. Whatever, the centre vessel IS a good match for Richmond as has already been stated. The inside vessel is also a good match for the two later sisters Riebeeck and Rustenburg.

zelo1954
9th March 2007, 19:51
I omitted to mention that I am SURE I took a similar photo myself at Southampton Docks in 1969 or, more likely, 1970. I no longer seem to have it. I do recall it was of 3 R class and it was at the identical location.

Cisco
9th March 2007, 22:36
I was basing the order of the ships on their arrival dates in Southampton but now feel that the middle one is indeed Richmond Castle.

The photo in the gallery is of the war-built rather than the pre-war Richmond Castle and she has two windows. I have found photos of Roxburgh Castle and Rowallan Castle in Laurence Dunn's 'Ships of the Union Castle Line' ( 1954) and both have three windows. The photo for sale on EBay is - I feel - the prewar Rowallan Castle...she has the same windows as Roslin Castle.

Cheers
Cisco

andysk
10th March 2007, 00:38
Hi Cisco & Zelo ...

I have managed to find the postcards I collected many moons ago, and have one from Alex Duncan of the Rowallan, which is the same as the eBay pic. It is indeed the 1939 Rowallan (sunk 1942).

The Series 1 'R's had the walkway around the front of the accommodation on the boat deck projecting forward of the wheelhouse front.

The Series 2's, Rowallan (1942), Richmond (1944) and Roxburgh (1945), the wheelhouse was extended over this walkway to line up with the accomodation block.

The Series 3's, Rustenburg & Riebeeck (1946) had Nr 3 hatch forward of the accomodation.

The dates tie in as well, Rowallan & Riebeeck both arrived in Kaohsiung on the same day, Sept 2, 1971, with the Richmond arriving in Shanghai on August 27, 1971. (From Peter Newall's UC Line book)

One mystery remains; why my slide shows two square wheelhouse windows, and the other pics show three. Maybe some rebuilding of the wheelhouse at some stage perhaps - but in which case, why retain the 4 portholes ?

Thanks for all the help guys ....

Cheers

Andy

andysk
10th March 2007, 00:39
Hi Zelo ...

I omitted to mention that I am SURE I took a similar photo myself at Southampton Docks in 1969 or, more likely, 1970. I no longer seem to have it. I do recall it was of 3 R class and it was at the identical location.

This was the usual layup berth for both these ships and the other Clan R vessels as well.

Cheers

Andy

zelo1954
10th March 2007, 01:13
Just to say thanks to all. I've enjoyed this thread

andysk
10th March 2007, 08:08
It's a pleasure Zelo.

It's not just that but a great help to me and an illustration of the depth of knowledge and expertise here so freely shared !

Thanks to all - esp the those who run SN .....

Cheers

Andy

zelo1954
11th April 2007, 00:12
I was basing the order of the ships on their arrival dates in Southampton but now feel that the middle one is indeed Richmond Castle.

The photo in the gallery is of the war-built rather than the pre-war Richmond Castle and she has two windows. I have found photos of Roxburgh Castle and Rowallan Castle in Laurence Dunn's 'Ships of the Union Castle Line' ( 1954) and both have three windows. The photo for sale on EBay is - I feel - the prewar Rowallan Castle...she has the same windows as Roslin Castle.

Cheers
Cisco

I wonder if the various posters remember this thread not so long ago. Well I was reminded of it when a brilliant colour photo of the war-time Rowallan Castle recently appeared on here. This photo now casts doubt on the centre vessel being Richmond since Rowallan too has two front square bridge windows. I wonder if your own deductions from likely arrival order are indeed correct and that Rowallan is centre and Richmond outer?

Cheers, Geoff

alanblakely
7th April 2014, 14:59
Rowallan had no bridge wing cabs when I was 3/0 on her in 1970, so she isn't one of the 3 ships in the picture

Chris Isaac
7th April 2014, 15:47
The pre war Rowallan did have wing cabs but the post war did not.