exchange shipplans!?

lurline
4th June 2007, 21:50
hi(K)
i search plans from ships!
but it is very expensive to sale one for one modell?
why we can not exchange under shiplovers??
i thonk it is possible per e-mails or cd-rom!
only the stamps and cd to pay!!
(Thumb)
what say the modelllovers ??

Jim MacIntyre
10th June 2007, 04:46
Hello Lurline
I tend to agree that plans can be expensive to purchase for one model, however trying to set up an 'exchange' for ship plans would likely violate copyright laws in most cases.
I assume since you are interested in plans your goal would be to build the model from scratch - when you consider the total cost of time and materials to scratchbuild a model the actual cost of the plans is in the end only a small fraction.
I'm sure if you have a specific model in mind there are many in this forum including myself who would be willing to help in locating plans.
Cheers
Jim MacIntyre

Shipbuilder
10th June 2007, 08:21
Simply exchanging plans would not violate copyright. That only happens if the plan is copied. Selling plans on after you have finished with them does not violate copyright either.
Bob

Tony Breach
10th June 2007, 11:34
Are we talking of specific plans from which to build a model or the original builders drawings?

Jim MacIntyre
11th June 2007, 02:28
Hi Bob and Tony
I took my cue from Lurlines suggestion to exchange by e-mail or cd-rom which would require some form of copying.
Many of my plans and photos were purchased from NMM and GUAS etc. As Lurline says they tend to be a bit pricey, and you are required to sign a form that is very specific concerning copyright issues.
I'm by no means an expert in copyright law but having read the recent discussions on posting photos, similar rules might apply to plans.
Anyway let's wait for some guidance from Lurline on what he is seeking then we can move on from there.
Cheers
Jim Mac

Shipbuilder
11th June 2007, 07:37
Even copying them on CD or sending by e-mail is indeed violating copyright. But posting the actual plan itself in return for an
other plan is not infringement. In years gone by, I asked a number of shipping establishments for permission to copy & use their plans for articles in books & magazines etc they mostly gave me the go-ahead in the form of written permission. The NMM won't go along with giving free permission though (heaven forbid that anything they hold should fall into the hands of the public!). It is ironic that a museum that is entrusted with the safe-keeping of Britain's maritime hertitage seeks to surpress it to the nth degree. I wrote to the San Francisco museum for plans and a photograph some time ago and they sent them along "with compliments!" I know the NMM will howl that they are not funded, but if they were a little more free with their plans and sold them for a reasonable sost, they would generate a lot of goowill & I feel more people would be willing to send voluntary contributions. They want teens of pounds for a digital print of a 5 by 7 inch photograph!

JoK
11th June 2007, 21:25
I know we have sent plans out. Somewhere in Europe there is a model of the Terry Fox steaming on some pond.

Saying that, with the new security culture, would we send some unknown person, GA's of an active ship? Probably not.

lurline
11th June 2007, 22:31
hi
is that forbitten to send a "friend" a plan ??
sorry i knew this!!!
i have thing,when you pay for this is that forbitten!!!!
but for nothing? only the expence for cd and stamps?!
sorry for the trouble ;-(

lurline
11th June 2007, 22:36
my idea was only,when somewhere have a plan,built this ship once time and no more.
any people search the plan............
yes it is not easy to became plans that the problem.
when you want a plan from a new ship , i can catch this!
but old ships that no exit ?
;-)
my englisch is very bad sorry
;-(

nhp651
11th June 2007, 23:50
What model are you wanting to build Lurline.maybe if you tell us we can sort some plans out for you, between all the model builders on this site? If you don't tell us, we can't sort out the plans!

lurline
12th June 2007, 07:33
hello nhp
i search plans from old passengerliners! ;-))

nhp651
12th June 2007, 21:25
Hi, Lurline,
now that is one area of modelling that I have no knowledge of what so ever. My forte is classic lifeboats, and fishing vessels.However, now that you have given some idea as to what you want, I'm sure that there are a number of modellers that will have this type of vessel in their area of expertise, and library. good luck with the hunt.neil.

lurline
12th June 2007, 22:07
thanks neil ;-))

Jim MacIntyre
12th June 2007, 22:35
Hi Lurline
I have plans for the Furness Withy passenger ship 'Ocean Monarch' built by Vickers-Armstrong at Newcastle on Tyne in 1951. The plan is on one sheet and is in 1/350 scale.(Approximately 24 inches by 18 inches) Credits go to Jean Claude Bellanger and MRB. There are no instructions and details are in French. I see nothing about copyright.
The plans were bought some time ago on e-Bay and the seller located in Florida is still listing them for sale so I imagine he has a copy machine and turns them out as required.
If this is of interest to you I will be glad to have a copy made and sent on.
Regards
Jim MacIntyre
Medford NJ USA

Jim MacIntyre
12th June 2007, 22:55
Even copying them on CD or sending by e-mail is indeed violating copyright. But posting the actual plan itself in return for an
other plan is not infringement. In years gone by, I asked a number of shipping establishments for permission to copy & use their plans for articles in books & magazines etc they mostly gave me the go-ahead in the form of written permission. The NMM won't go along with giving free permission though (heaven forbid that anything they hold should fall into the hands of the public!). It is ironic that a museum that is entrusted with the safe-keeping of Britain's maritime hertitage seeks to surpress it to the nth degree. I wrote to the San Francisco museum for plans and a photograph some time ago and they sent them along "with compliments!" I know the NMM will howl that they are not funded, but if they were a little more free with their plans and sold them for a reasonable sost, they would generate a lot of goowill & I feel more people would be willing to send voluntary contributions. They want teens of pounds for a digital print of a 5 by 7 inch photograph!
I feel your pain Bob. After having spent many pounds with NMM (including 25 an hour for 'research') I went on the the next search which required contact with Nederlands Scheepvaart Museum in Amsterdam looking for plans for a Shell tanker "Rita" built 1935 in Holland. I almost fell off the chair when they told me since it wasn't a very big order they would mail them to me for free.
I thought I would push the envelope a bit and since the Dutch Shell fleet ran "C" class ships that were very similar to the British flag "D" class I had just bought from NMM I asked the magic question - Lo and behold both sets of plans showed up for free... The scale shown on the plans is not the scale of the plans so during copying they were reduced to fit the paper but they are clear enough and certainly good enought to work with.
It makes your point about NMM ...
(I did get a guilty twinge when reading your last comment about voluntary contributions which I regret to say I did not do but since the NSM is currently undergoing some major renovations and upgrading now might be a good time to make amends..
Cheers
Jim Mac
P.S. I really admire the work you do and the scale you use.. I don't think I could manage it.
Rgds
JM

peter barc
12th June 2007, 22:58
A Friend of mine is looking for a plan of the Havelet or Portelet to build a model, any ideas ????

Peter

makko
13th June 2007, 02:49
Mk1 RoRo's: B. Priam, B. Perseus, Toba etc..... I just haven't had time to try and get in touch with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries........I started one in cardboard a long time ago when onboard from the ship's plans.....


Rgds.

Dave

Tony Breach
15th June 2007, 20:51
I was looking for plans of Campbell's GLEN USK but the cost from the museum in Glasgow was a bit too heavy.

lurline
2nd July 2007, 18:10
hello
tony
i have write 9 mails to england ;-))
I hope whe became i answer!!!
greating
andy

vchiu
22nd September 2007, 06:02
Well, anything that duplicates a plan for any other reason than for personal backup purpose is a copyright infrigement in itself.

it is like buying any piece of software and duplicating it for one friend or for many, regardless of whether some money was made with it or not.

The question lies more in which power will enforce the copyrights? Ebaying plans is an obvious copyright offence (unless being granted permission to do so by MRB. I know the MRB guys and am pretty sure they did not) but they don't have the strength of a RIAA or any copyright protection office, so...

One problem is the lack of solution between paying plans, mostly paper, with the associated costs of shipment, handling, packing , and the free downloadable plans which sometimes lack content or quality because underfunded. I would personnaly be ready to pay, say 5-10 USD per downloadable high quality plan i could get, and hence buying tens or even one hundred of them.

I already bought about 60 Paper plans that I scanned for future use , but scanning basically doubled the initial budget.

I also heard numerous painful financial experiences of persons dealing with the NMM and never dared to do anything with them.


Currently also looking for motor yacht plans, mid size to great liners, US warships (BB, CA and DD) 1930-1980

palco
26th November 2007, 23:58
Hallo.I need help.I can,t find any dockyard plans to british armed cruisers from second world war two.I asked National Maritime Museum and Glasgow University Museum -helted any plans.I need specially Hms Chitral or hms comorin -before or after reconstruction. Any ideas ?

vchiu
9th December 2007, 10:55
Hello,

Not sure what kind of ships you are looking plans of,
Did you check key model plans suppliers such as modelboats
www.modelboats.co.uk
or Marine Modelling? www.marinemodelmagazine.com
or VTH (modellwerft) www.vth.de
or neckar Verlag (Schiffsmodell) www.neckar-verlag.de
there are also Jecobin and navyplans who may have some
Those publications generally have on-line shops which allow you to order.

If none of those help, I suggest you get in touch with the Surface warship Association, www.warships.org.uk
They may be able to help, but I am not sure if one has to be member to benefit from their archives

alternatively, sirmar and fleetscale are very knowledgeable regarding british warships. they sell both hulls and plans.
www.fleetscale.com http://www.sirmarmodelships.com/

http://www.all-model.com/ claim to have a good choice. not tried yet

Hope this helps.

RGascoyne
9th December 2007, 15:55
My problem with the National Maritime Museums in UK concerned their storage of ships models. They have had many donated to them by shipping companies at the end of their days, including Union-Castle and many plans too, but they are all stored in their basements. Any suggestions to have them put back on public display has been met with silence.
There was an idea of setting up a ships' model museum, maybe in Chatham dockyards, but I have seen nothing about this for the future. BTW Bob, I thought they were originally, if not always publicly funded.

Shipbuilder
14th December 2007, 18:51
I am not really sure on the funding of the NMM nowadays, but I do know that they will only part with plan copies after very large sums of money have changed hands. They load it on with postal charges as well as a "standing charge" for every order. The Mitchell Libray & the Glasgow University Archives are much more sensible about their plans. Reasonable cost, quick & efficient service. Forgot to mention Tyne & Wear Archives as well, they are also very good.
Bob

lurline
27th January 2008, 14:57
hello
have anyone deckplanes from the conte biancamano/rosso or verde?

mareud
16th March 2008, 21:50
Here http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr/02fonds-collections/banquedocuments/planbato/planbato/listebato/listebato.php you can find free plans of the French Navy ships.

Is there anyone in this forum there build shipmodels from paper?
Rolf

IDMarr
18th March 2008, 11:54
Hi
Just joined
I have a project to build a paddle steamer. The hull is built now but I can see many problems for the future. Any help or advise would be very welcome

nhp651
18th March 2008, 14:35
hi, look on the galery under model ships at the postings of the Waverley earlier this week by member John Strapp.
a lovely pair of models, and I'm sure he will be able to help you.neil.

lurline
19th March 2008, 15:24
hello rolf
yes i do !
i built with paper !!
now the lakonia ;-))))))))))

Nyassa
20th March 2008, 21:50
A good source of reasonably inexpensive plans is the Falkirk Museum situated at Callender House in Falkirk, Scotland. The museum is well worth a visit.
www.falkirkinspired.com/heritage/callendarhouse.htm

(==D)

Corixa
21st March 2008, 01:45
Hallo.I need help.I can,t find any dockyard plans to british armed cruisers from second world war two.I asked National Maritime Museum and Glasgow University Museum -helted any plans.I need specially Hms Chitral or hms comorin -before or after reconstruction. Any ideas ?
Hi Palco. I too have been struggling to get information on AMCs. You can get plans of the original ships but virtually nothing on the conversions. The best you can do is work out detail from photographs. The funny thing is that there is plenty of information on German AMCs including plans.

Jim MacIntyre
21st March 2008, 03:19
Hi
Just joined
I have a project to build a paddle steamer. The hull is built now but I can see many problems for the future. Any help or advise would be very welcome

Hello IDMarr
I have a hull for the PS Waverley sitting on my shelves. Had the same dilemma got so far and couldn't decide how to proceed. My probleem was to pick one shaft/one motor or separate shafts/motors for each paddle.
Had some discussions earlier in this forum and have spent lots of time in paddleducks (website dedicated to model paddlers). Still no decision so I'll be watching this thread for guidance.
Cheers
Jim Mac

nhp651
21st March 2008, 16:30
Hi Jim, the paddles on the Waverley should work in unison, not individually.
I once heard that a ship of that length and narrow beam ( not including the sponsons and paddles) would turn herself over if the paddles were not geared in syncro.

Jim MacIntyre
21st March 2008, 18:50
You are right Neil - that point came up in a similar discussion some time back. Plus the original Waverley had a single shaft with padles working in unison.
The scale rudder on my model will be just over an inch square. When you have a propeller forcing the water past the rudder immediately ahead of it you get more pressure for steering. That principle has to be different with paddles. I suppose the answer is to build to scale for display and have a clear plastic 'addition' for the rudder when in the water.
BTW love those John Strapp models - a 78 inch long Waverley ?? Who said size doesn't matter...... I'm envious.
All the best
Jim Mac

lurline
26th March 2008, 14:25
have any one a plan of the SS SHALOM /HANSEATIC/REGENT (sea/sun) ??????

palco
3rd May 2008, 14:07
Hallo Corixa.Thanks for information. If you want contact me by PM. We (paldent@op.pl.We) can change informations about AMC,s.Do You know where I can buy dockyard plans to german AMC and other auxiliary like sperrbrecher,netzlayer ect.

shane67
16th May 2008, 23:12
hello all i am new to this forum. i have been researching for my current scratch build,the french battleship RICHELIEU in a scale of 1;100 & have came to a brick wall when trying to find pictures of the stern of the ship pre refit with catapults and hangers visible if anyone has or knows of anywhere to find said i would be forever grateful.

shane

mareud
19th May 2008, 19:40
Try here http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr/02fonds-collections/banquedocuments/planbato/planbato/Plans/planbato.php?id=468
Rolf

lurline
17th June 2008, 16:29
hello friends good news a new site

www.freeshipplans.blogspot.com
it is a site from a very special friend of my: emrak

tbates
23rd December 2008, 04:48
HI, i am interested in general arrangement and machinery plans of all ships from 1860 to current, if any one has any that they want to trade with me send me a PM, and state the name, type and year of the ship u have plans too and what kind of plans you would like, i currently have 500+ ships GA plans. - Tom

jerome morris
23rd December 2008, 16:40
Lurline, A good friend is working on restoring a large model of the Conti Biancamano, I'll contact him to see what he may have. Would pictures work if that is all he has?
I would have to send them via post office.

lurline
23rd December 2008, 21:27
woooooooooow thank you

great

lurline
23rd December 2008, 21:27
Lurline, A good friend is working on restoring a large model of the Conti Biancamano, I'll contact him to see what he may have. Would pictures work if that is all he has?
I would have to send them via post office.

wooooooooooow great

thank you

NZ JollyJack
19th January 2009, 10:15
Hi you could also join a model boat club, they are bound to have a large plan library, If it's been around for a while.

Cheers
JollyJack
(Thumb)

palco
24th April 2009, 23:02
Hi.I looking for plans to S.S Cavina -later as ocean boarding vessel.Someone can help my?

lurline
1st May 2009, 15:34
go to www.mercantilemarine.org
the is a guy that search pictures!
ask him :-))

lurline
1st May 2009, 15:37
his user name baribill he came from bristol
have luck!!!!

kenandbernadette
20th July 2009, 23:43
Dear Jim,
I'd love to obtain a copy of the plans of the 'Ocean Monarch' of 1951 if you will still provide them. Can you tell me the cost as my pension is stretched a little and my hobby of model ship building comes after medical bills.
I have made quite a number of models but the pride of them all is six foot model of one of the New Zealand shipping Company vessels - M.V. 'Hurunui' in which I sailed for almost two years.
I have tried to say hello since 'signing on' in this wonderful site but after numerous attempts have failed to find the key!.
I hope by 'talking' to you this way, that I have not trod upon someone's toes.
I would like to have sent you a few pics' of a few models I've made but
until I can figure out some of the instructions on this site, I cannot.
If it is more convenient please send me a PM

K urgess
20th July 2009, 23:48
Welcome aboard from northern England, Ken.
I've edited your post to remove your address because this is a relatively public site.
If you want to know how to post pictures to the gallery got to -
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=12964
Or
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=26414
To add a picture to a post in this thread you must use the green "Post Reply" button rather than this little reply window. That has a "manage attachment" section that allows attaching pictures to a thread.
I'm sure you'll get it cracked in the end.
Meanwhile find your way around our ship, get to know the crew and enjoy the trip.
Cheers
Kris

Satanic Mechanic
20th July 2009, 23:53
Excuse my ignorance. Are we talking model ship plans here or actual ships plans to convert to building a model.

ZZ56
26th July 2009, 05:45
There isn't too much difference, SM. Model plans usually have the thickness of the keel/frames already determined but as long as you have the outlines, you can usually plan the internal spaces yourself.