What was your favourite Brock's ship and why?

Tony Selman
14th June 2007, 10:22
We have the reputation of being the most active single company thread on the board but we have not posted a single message between us since 6th June.

To get things going I have decided to start the above thread which should get the grey cells working. Please list your favourite ship, some details of the voyage and also list as many people as you can remember on board.

I know the ship and voyage but I am going away to think of the names.

Philthechill
14th June 2007, 16:50
Instead of favourite ship (probably later!!).I'll name my least favourite ship and try remember some names! Ship:- "Matheran", Year:- 1961-62, Master:- Dennis Keller, Mate:- Phil Owen, Chief Engineer:- John Skillicorn, 2nd:- Dicky Hope, 3rd:- Billy 'Helmet' Linstead, 4th:- Billy Muir, Jr4th:- Self, 5th :- Jack Dransfield (I think). Chief Steward was (probably) Ben Rimmer. Other names escape me. We left Tilbury November 1961 and arrived back in Liverpool May 1962. The outward-bound passage, up to the Canal, wasn't too eventful with Jack (panch sahib) and myself on day-work overhauling those God-awful open crankshaft Clarke-Chapman winches which had been severely thrashed round the land and were, consequently, in need of some serious TLC!!! On arrival at Port Said we were then put on watch to traverse the Canal reverting to day-work once we got in the Red Sea. Jack was a relocated "Jock" from Corby and thought he was tough enough to work on the winches, in the blazing sun of the Red Sea, without any form of cover on his back. Me being an old hand of two voyages experience (!) knew better and wore a tee-shirt! Jack was soon the agonised owner of a giant, family-size blister, on his shoulders which earned him a severe bollocking from John D (Skillicorn) as he, Jack, was in quite a lot of pain from said blister, and mandatory sunburn, and was excused duties, for a day, by Ben. Which meant I was left to soldier on by myself on the winches! Needless to say poor old Jack was as popular as a dose of crabs!!! We had cargo for Jeddah and then Aden for binoculars, watches (Favre Leuber to flog in Cal), mechanical toys (remember the little yapping dogs which would do somersaults and the robots?) cameras etc. etc. Oh yes I believe we took bunkers, oil and water ('orrible stuff from Aden!!!) too! We left Aden Colombo-bound and, half-way between the two, we lost the water in the port boiler and 'started' a few tubes! Bummer!!! John D, being first trip Chief, decided we should take turns going up the back-ends to try expand the 'started' tubes and duly got the furnace-fronts swung back in readiness to do this "Boys Own" stunt. Me, being an abject coward, refused point-blank saying I thought it too dangerous to do this as it was far too hot inside the furnaces. This made me Public Enemy No.1 there and then, and for the rest of the trip with JD, as he probably felt I was undermining his authority. After informing me, "I'll talk to YOU later Mr." he got the Serang to chuck some hatchboards into the bottom furnace, wrapped some wet sacks round his shoulders and crawled into the furnace. Two minutes, or so, later, he came out with his face like a well-smacked **** saying we wouldn't bother as it was far too hot to work for any length of time and the project was abandoned. However I was still PE No.1!!! We limped to Colombo on two boilers to arrive at the start of a prolonged dock strike!!! Because of our needing boiler-repairs we were allowed to jump the queue and we were tied-up astern of that abandoned Sam-boat "Valiant Enterprise" out on the breakwater. We eventually got the boiler-repairs done (supervised by Harry De Voss who worked for Walkers then but eventually joined Brocks. Anyone recall Harry? Smashing bloke! Another supervisor there was Stan ?). After the strike had finished and we got rid of our cement we went round to Trinco to load tea for home. We set sail for home but we very nearly had to divert to meet-up with the "Canberra" to get John D's missis transferred as she had picked-up some ear infection in the Colombo Swimming Club and she was in all sorts of agony. Luckily Ben, under guidance from "Canberra's" Doctor, got her sorted-out by dint of an injection of penicillin. All was going reasonably well 'til we got to Port Sudan. We'd been shut down as there was quite a lot of cargo to load. Eventually cargo was finished and, after commencing sea-going watches 24 hours earlier we were just about squared away to sail at 22.00, on departure day, when the air-pump stopped working! All hands went down below to give a hand to get it sorted-out. The valve-shuttle needed changing! Then, one after another, various other pumps stopped working and we had to change the valve-shuttles on every one!! I must point-out that everybody except myself (stupidly) had gone up-top "for a blow" at some time, during all this activity, as the temperatures were ferocious. Eventually we were ready and every one went up top except myself, 'Helmet' (the reason for his being nicknamed 'Helmet' was all too apparent when you saw him step-out of the shower!!!) Linstead and Jack the panch sahib. I remember the telegraph ringing 'Stand By' and the next thing I remember was being laid in my cabin having difficulty breathing and a load of fans blowing on me to try bring my temperature down as I had collapsed with a dose of heat-exhaustion! I was excused duties for a couple of watches as I was weak as a kitten. I then turned-to on 12-4 with 'Helmet'. I was to run the watch as he was in the process of o'hauling one of the Sterne's fridge compressors. One afternoon watch I got a sudden very strong smell of Ammonia on the plates! 'Helmet' had pulled a discharge stop-valve from its body but, unfortunately, there was still some gas in the pipe-line and he got it full in the face! Fortunately we were only a couple of hours out of Suez and he was landed there, hospitalised and subsequently repatriated. I was 'promoted' to 3rd (well ok I was only running the 12-4!) and we wended our stately (13kts with a 12kt wind behind us!!) way home. JD asked me if I was coming back the following voyage!!!! Guess what the answer was!! (To give you a clue it wasn't "Yes") Yup! I can safely say the "Matheran" was my least-favourite ship!! Sorry this yarn has taken so much space to recount! Salaams! Phil

Tony Sprigings
14th June 2007, 17:06
O.K. Here is a start. The Magdapur was my favourite ship. Mainly because I had sailed on her as Apprentice in 1946/7 and again as Chief Officer from '58 thru to the end of 1960. Does Capt. John Richardson ring any bells? He was followed by Capt. John Nutall (quite a cultural shock) I might add.
I am scratching around for other names but the grey cells ar squeaking. I remember Roger Bentley and John Millichap,Tony Dunster, Peter Lewis.Chief Engineer Don Clark Purser/Chief Steward Tod Sloane Tony Dick.
How's that for a start?

gwzm
14th June 2007, 19:13
Tony, A good subject for a new thread. For me it's a toss up between the Malakand and the Makrana.

On balance, the Malakand. She was like a well-worn, comfortable old slipper. Yes, the steam winches were bl$$dy noisy, the radio gear had to be the oldest in the fleet, and no forced-air ventilation system, never mind air-conditioning, and a journey in the outside world to reach the bridge deck to get to the radio room which was behind the chartroom. Heating was by old cast-iron radiators. The "Old Man" was "Paddy" Redden and he used to share the 8-12 in the evening with the 3/O. When I came off watch, the secunny was sent aft for a smoko, Paddy brewed the tea and I took a trick on the wheel (no auto pilot). Everybody mixed really well. The 3/E was "Black Bob" McGregor who was a Ch. Eng with MacBraynes but was sailing with us to see his family in Calcutta. There were several memorable parties on the strength of that. We had a major shut down in Calcutta and everybody turned to in the engine room to grind-in and re-pack steam valves. Malakand was also the only ship I sailed on where the engineers used to visit the bridge and congregate in the chartroon. Other names that I recall: Ch. Eng. ..... Schubert, 2/E John Hoy, 5/E Roy Doke, P/CS George Godfrey, Deck App. Hugh Shuttleworth, Chippy Dave Brewer. I'll edit this note if I recall any more names.

= salaam es BV = John/gwzm + VA

R798780
14th June 2007, 20:18
Tony, A good subject for a new thread. For me it's a toss up between the Malakand and the Makrana.

Other names that I recall: Ch. Eng. ..... Schubert, 2/E John Hoy, 5/E Roy Doke, P/CS George Godfrey, Deck App. Hugh Shuttleworth, Chippy Dave Brewer. I'll edit this note if I recall any more names.

= salaam es BV = John/gwzm + VA

4/ETiger Rawes , snr Deck App Dave Cox. C/O Phil Owen, 2/O Colin Kingston

Salaams

tanker
14th June 2007, 20:19
I am only a shiplovers and MASKELYA like me!!!
Gp

gwzm
15th June 2007, 00:01
Thanks Hugh, I can remember faces but I've a dreadful memory for names.

All the best,

John/gwzm

Roger Bentley
15th June 2007, 16:27
For me there are two favourites first the Maskeliya in 1955, A E Evans the Old Man a Welshman who lived in Dundee, Pem was Mate, Phil Cooper 2/O, Phil Owen 3/O, Johh Hornsby 4/O, Apprentices Cosker and Bell. Initially the finest feeder in Brocks was P/CH Stwd Brian Turner who unfortunately had to leave due to a bereavement and was replaced by Ted Hannah. Bill Ritch MBE was the 1st R/O and I was 2R/O. I can see the engineers' faces but cannot sadly remember all their names, but one was a New Zealander getting his steam time in. The second was a Scotsman called George Black, a very jolly chap. There was also another George who was a Geordie!. It was a memorable voyage for me as I was to get married at the end of the trip. I missed the first date as we ran into heavy weather after leaving NY and finished up putting into the Azores for extra bunkers. She was a very happy ship and I enjoyed my time in her. More about the Magdapur my other favourite in another post. Salaams, Roger Bentley

noel grayson
15th June 2007, 17:59
We have the reputation of being the most active single company thread on the board but we have not posted a single message between us since 6th June.

To get things going I have decided to start the above thread which should get the grey cells working. Please list your favourite ship, some details of the voyage and also list as many people as you can remember on board.

I know the ship and voyage but I am going away to think of the names.

Manaar was my favourite ship. I sailed on her maiden voyage as senior apprentice. The Old Man was Archie Bannatyne, c/o John Clarke, Chief Eng Andie Mackie, 2/E Alf Wilson, a wonderful man, CRo " Tubby" Halton
I subsequently did 3 voyages as apprentice, 1 voyage as uncert 4th Mate,
then later on with a mates ticket, I sailed 2 voyages as third mate, and three as second mate, and I coasted her as Mate. The picture of her that adorned the stairwell leading to the mates accommodation is in pride of place in my living room. I have very fond memories of that ship!!

Don A.Macleod
15th June 2007, 19:21
Good thread Tony(Have sent you a belated Message!).
Happiest ship was probably the MAHOUT and our stay in Savannah early 69,
Duncan Campbell was old man,Jimmy Grant(Ch.Eng), Erin Jackson(c/o),JD Wort(2 Eng).etc.etc.
A really good trip but had to take her back to Cal. after the strike. We arranged for a reunion later, which we had at Jim Worts and everyone was there bar J.Grant.A good trip with great comrades. Don.

Tony Selman
16th June 2007, 09:29
Interesting that you should should choose Mahout and your stay in Savannah in the dock strike Don. I have been stuck between a trip on the Matra in 1964 with you and my year on Maturata in 1969 which also included a very long time in Boston during the same strike, which although boring at times was great fun. Having started the thread I am now stuck on the fence and may have to include both.

Tony Selman
16th June 2007, 12:14
I have finally decided I can't make up my mind which was my favourite so I will list both.

Matra: Oct 1964 to Feb 1965. My second trip as a Chota Marconi Sahib.
Capt Maclaren, C/O John Munro, 2/O Nigel James, 3/O Mike James, Apprentices Needham and Davison. R/O Keith Forster, 2R/O self, PC/S Bob Webb, PC/S Doug Cullen. C/E ??, 2/E Derek Machin, S3/E Brian Saunders, J3/E Ed Putnam, 4/E Charlie Drought, 5/E John Bishop. Sen Elect. John Campbell, 2/Elect ??. I thought Don Macleod had been 2/Elect but he tells me he left at the end of the first voyage so for now I can't remember who it was.

Maturata: Sept 1968 to May 1969. Capt Butch Ward, C/O Colin Kingston, 2/O Alan Lord, 3/O Erik ?? (Norwegian). No apprentices that I can remember. R/O self. PC/S Mike Voysey. Infuriatingly I cannot remember a single name of an engineer or Electrician which is amazing really because I spent a long time on there and got to know them well. I can see several faces but putting names to them is a different matter. Maturata was on charter to Anchor Line at this time and we were on the North Atlantic run which if you have served on her or Maskeliya you will be aware that those two could roll on wet grass without taking on the North Atlantic in winter. Butch Ward ran a good ship and despite the run they were good days and we had a great time whilst stuck in a snowy Boston during the dock strike. I was very sad to hear that Captain Ward has passed away..

Roger Bentley
16th June 2007, 18:50
My second favourite was the Magdapur. On the trip with John Richardson that Tony Sprigings has mentioned, we had a really good crowd and Mrs Elsie Richardson was with us, as was for part of the trip Mrs Joan Sprigings. We had a bit of excitement running aground near Pensacola. With a mention on the local radio to the effect "British freighter Magdapur has run aground in Pensacola Bay (and then with much emphasis) so far she had not asked for coastguard assistance" I remember the pre dinner drinks session in Tony (?) Millichap's cabin where Tony Sprigings often joined us. Keith McGinty the assistant Purser CH/Stwd was fascinated with Percy Yates accent, and often in Calcutta would wait until he was in the saloon in the morning when he had come aboard in his authority as shore super, once he was safely behind the door, Keith would at the top of his voice imitating a pukka sahib, roar out "Morning Perwhercy" sounding like some old Colonel. I can remember things like that now, but forget what happened yesterday! I have a full list of the European crew from the Christmas menu. Salaams, Roger

Derek Roger
17th June 2007, 04:08
A very difficult choice !

I keep thinking of Mahsud as I stood bye her as 4th Eng and eventually sailed as Chief for a number of trips ;

However I have a small pleasure craft ( 23 ft ) which I named Mahout !
Therefore Mahout has it .

She was my first Diesel ship as apprentice and I sailed again on her as 5th Eng . Sailed later on Markor as 3rd Eng .

Great ships and wonderfull people.

Regards Derek

PS One never forgets ones First Deep Sea Trip . That was Maipura ; a lovely vessel .

Tony this is a very trying question !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jim S
17th June 2007, 16:58
Like others before me I find it difficult to decide on "favourite" Brocklebank ship.
Two trips on MAIDAN in 1963 - Capt Keller, C/E Bill Wood, Ben Lyon 2/E, Brian (Boots) Baxter Snr 3/E. Stuart Smith Eng App. Colin Kingston 3/O.
Followed by one on MATHURA in 1964, Capt Eddy, C/E George Black, George Snaith 2/E, John Roberts Snr 4/E - we were J/Es on Furness Withy's Pacific Unity for two trips. Barry Shawcross 2/O.
Relegation followed with four trips on MAGDAPUR 1964-66 Capts Turner and Sinclair, C/E Alf Manley and Jake Donnelly, John Mackay and Tony Dick 2/E
Brian Baxter (again) and Brian Cotterill Snr 3/E Jack Wilson Jnr 3/E Norman McGovern Jnr 4/E, Brian Gracie and Tery Lomas 5/E. Geoff Turner Eng App. Giovanni Webster 2/O Roger Newton 3/O, Dave Peese 4/O Dave York Chippie.
MATHURA as Brock's finest turbine steamer with the most up to date propulsion plant should be the obvious choice.
MAIDAN as first trip with Brocks and my first 2/E job approx 4 years after first joining her as 5/E is a serious contender.
However four trips on MAGDAPUR just edges it despite being inferior from an engineering point of view. Life was never easy on the "Maggie" - The Foster Wheeler external de-superheaters were always a source of concern. But I think there was always a good crowd to be found on the "Black Four".
Bosses like Jake Donnelly and Tony Dick ( sadly neiher no longer with us) were a big influence on me and my choice of MAGDAPUR as my favourite Brocklebank ship.

Jim S

Don A.Macleod
17th June 2007, 17:21
Good choice Derek,I have one picture hanging in my "office" and that is the MAHOUT still in it's original frame with a wee label stuck on the back which states Druba Paul,memories!
I was very attached to MAIHAR and MAHSUD as well,they were new,innovative and a bit challenging to start with but it was very gratifying to go from Japan to Panama without a "blackout" Alan had (as I remember) eleven on the MAHSUD on one passage.Yes! happy days but didn't we learn a lot.You must have been on her when she"clutched in" in Colombo? Dave Meek was chief. Him and I did a couple of stints together on MAIHAR.
Going back to your thread Tony I reckon MATRA was my favourite ship as she was my first ship for three trips and also took her on the final voyage(already posted this)Charlie Drought was there as well.
Must go now as the Grand Prix build up has started.

Derek Roger
18th June 2007, 00:11
Don ;
No I was not on her in Colombo when she clutched in ! Dave Meek was Chief and I can tell you of his account if you wish by PM . Alan Atack
joined her in Singapore as Chief to effect repairs . The Bow was set back 22 feet but the collison bulkhead was intact and Lloyds allowed her to sail in that condition to Singapore or pehaps it was Hong Kong for repairs .
Alan has a picture of her ( Which he cant find !!!) with the bow set back like a concertina .
Regards Derek

Don A.Macleod
18th June 2007, 17:38
Derek
Thanks for that ,but remember seeing the pics of her and Dave told me the story so it still sticks in the "old" grey cells.I seem to remember she went to HK for repairs.
Regards Donald.

Derek Roger
19th June 2007, 02:41
Ill give Allan a "bell ' and see what he can add and ahve him look for the oics one more time . Old man lost his job over the affair ( was demoted to mate ) real pity as I understand he was a good guy .
Derek

mahseer1
19th June 2007, 14:57
I was fortunate enough to be 3rd Mate on Masirah from Feb '62 to Nov '63 and just remember her as a very happy ship with just the odd incident or two to keep things interesting. Sadly the years have erased most of my shipmates' names, though I hope Capt Sprigings and others can recall their time on her during those years. Capt Simpson was the constant factor with Tony Sprigings and then Sam Baxter as First Mates. Trevor Williams, I think, was 2nd Mate throughout the period. So long as the Third Mate could make decent coffee there were no problems with Capt Simpson who, over the intercom, would invite himself to the bridge at 2100 hrs each night. He seemed genuinely interested in people and I never feared those 20 minute episodes. One night in the Med we were in the middle of a Royal Navy "Darkened Ship" exercise. I thought we had all seen the notice on the chartroom table and casually pointed out the shape of a destroyer passing at speed about half-a-mile down our port side. He choked on his coffee and ordered me in no uncertain terms to signal her in protest. I had visions of me ruining a complete NATO exercise or getting the sack for insubordination. Fortunately I managed to delay things long enough for him to read the notice and all was well.

I attach a picture of a funnel I have made in preparation for completing a model of the Masirah - original plans obtained from Glasgow University Archives which hold the plans for most of Brocks post-war fleet. At a scale of 1/96 the funnel is 5.25 inches high. Family illness is preventing me from continuing with what will be a 3-year project.

Kind regards to all

skymaster
19th June 2007, 16:26
Without a doubt my trip on the Mahanada 1957-58 was the best!Great crew ,wonderfull voyage and my favourite ship.second place goes to the Maihar,only deck cadet on board,second trip.Transported to India and back at a stately pace and seeing all there was to be seen.

skymaster

japottinger
19th June 2007, 20:24
Two trips on Mahiar (I) of course!
First ship in Brocklebank after a disastrous first trip at sea trip on Union Castle's Bullard King's Natal line's Umgeni as 8th engineer, after being shanghaed there from Clan Line, Brocklebank was like night and day.
Joined Maihar as 4th Eng. at Gyproc Quay Glasgow on 23/5/1957 where A. Stephens had almost rebuilt her, worth while for a 1917 ship to Brocklebank as the berths were full at that time. New accommodation, built in swimming pool aft of the funnel (no wood and canvas lash up!) 4 new boilers, all pumps and recip. engine rebuilt by makers Kincaid.
Wonderful to stand and at the forward end of the engine to watch the 54 inch stroke cranks revolving at our average of 61.5 RPM, LP cyl was 80 inch dia. so possibly was the largest triple expansion engine afloat at that time.
Ch. Eng,. great guy Russell Gordon, firts trip as chief
2nd Eng. Jack Evans
Capt. "Crikey" Morris, first as master
Ch Stew. Jim Sunners
Sparks Cliff Watson and Ron MacMurtrie
cannot recall any other names,
Same on next trip but Jack Evans was Ch Eng.
Next ship was three trips on Manipur.
One of so called "black four"
A workhouse but promotion was swift as very few engineers came back next trip!
Leaky economiser tubes and uptake casing at back of boilers were a problem, struggle to keep up with feed water usage had to call at Malta and Algiers on way across to USA to top up.
Went from Extra 4th to Jun 3rd in three trips.
Names I recall
Ch Eng Johnny MacCallum 3 trips
2nd Bob Beattie two trips and Chris O'Grady next, from Blue Funnel
3rd Bob Hollingsworth and Jeff Purnell
Ch Elec Les Dow, two trips 2nd Harry Allison, one trip Alan Barr
4th Eng Alan Ross
Ch Steward Stan Devaroux, 2nd Les Flockhart.
Radio Op.Sandy Dunn
Easiest ship- Masirah coastal voyage, great parties at Middlesborough!
Ch Eng. Trevor (?) Jones
2nd Larry Cleall-Harding
3rd Eric Lorimer
Radio Ian King-Gabb
Next best Matra

Philthechill
24th June 2007, 17:59
I was very fond of Maipura as she was an easy-steaming ship and invariably had a good crowd on her. I was on her from February 1966 'til September 1968 so I must have been quite happy there!! However I think my favourite, even though I only was on her for a year, (being removed to go to Wallsend to stand by "Conveyor") has to be Mangla or, as "Pem" referred to her, "one of Brock's Stately Homes".
For an engineer you couldn't wish for a better engine-room with, for a change, an excess of generating capacity. Her three W.H. Allen slow-revving (400 r.p.m.) alternators were an absolute gem of an engine compared to the Ruston's on the "Black Four", "Makrana", "Mahseer" etc. etc. Plus, of course the Belliss and Morcomb turbo-alternator which was capable of handling all the electrical-load at sea thereby allowing the Allens to be maintained in tip-top condition, as they would be shut down. Two Foster-Wheeler ES boilers supplied main steam but they were never as problematic as the boilers on the "Black Four". Decent accommodation too with reasonable a/c. An absolute dream to manouevre too!!! All-in-all an extremely good ship and one of the best Brock's ever, (in my opinion at least!), had. Bot teek-hai!!! Burra salaams! Phil

Jim S
24th June 2007, 22:26
I was very fond of Maipura as she was an easy-steaming ship and invariably had a good crowd on her. I was on her from February 1966 'til September 1968 so I must have been quite happy there!! However I think my favourite, even though I only was on her for a year, (being removed to go to Wallsend to stand by "Conveyor") has to be Mangla or, as "Pem" referred to her, "one of Brock's Stately Homes".
For an engineer you couldn't wish for a better engine-room with, for a change, an excess of generating capacity. Her three W.H. Allen slow-revving (400 r.p.m.) alternators were an absolute gem of an engine compared to the Ruston's on the "Black Four", "Makrana", "Mahseer" etc. etc. Plus, of course the Belliss and Morcomb turbo-alternator which was capable of handling all the electrical-load at sea thereby allowing the Allens to be maintained in tip-top condition, as they would be shut down. Two Foster-Wheeler ES boilers supplied main steam but they were never as problematic as the boilers on the "Black Four". Decent accommodation too with reasonable a/c. An absolute dream to manouevre too!!! All-in-all an extremely good ship and one of the best Brock's ever, (in my opinion at least!), had. Bot teek-hai!!! Burra salaams! Phil

Phil,
I believe the turbo-alternators on Mangla and Mathura were by Peter Brotherhood not Bellis & Morcom. They were back pressure, non condensing types. I agree the Foster Wheeler ESD boilers with double skinned casings operating on balanced draught with vane controlled Forced and Induced draught fans were a dream compared to the single skinned Foster Wheeler D Type of the "Black Four" with their numerouis gas leaks.

Jim S

Don A.Macleod
25th June 2007, 10:33
I agree with Phil that they were Bellis & Morcom turbos.Cheers Donald.

japottinger
25th June 2007, 15:41
Funny how memory plays tricks, I only spent a few days on Mangla, but cannot recall any turbo-generators.
Certainly Lloyds Reg. only lists the four Allen diesel generators, would she have turbo gens. as well?
Matra certainly had a big Ashworth Parker recip. steam gen. as well as two Ruston diesels, possibly Mahseer and Manaar as well as they had Scotch boilers.

Don A.Macleod
25th June 2007, 16:24
Funny how memory plays tricks, I only spent a few days on Mangla, but cannot recall any turbo-generators.
Certainly Lloyds Reg. only lists the four Allen diesel generators, would she have turbo gens. as well?
Matra certainly had a big Ashworth Parker recip. steam gen. as well as two Ruston diesels, possibly Mahseer and Manaar as well as they had Scotch boilers.

Jim
MANGLA and MATHURA did indeed have a turbo alternator,it was located up on the switchboard level(port side)and as Phil said it was used to carry the full load when at sea allowing the diesels to be stopped and again as he says it was three Allens.Regrds
Donald

Philthechill
26th June 2007, 11:27
Don! looks like you and I are wrong and Jim is right re. the turbo's on "Mangla" and "Mathura"! I rang Maxie Benson up and he wasn't quite sure so he said he would give Paul Georgeson a bell as he was fairly confident he would know the answer. Apparently Paul said, without a moments hesitation, "Peter Brotherhood and, as a matter of interest, Blue Star specified Peter Brotherhood turbo-alternators for their Act boats". So there we have it Don, straight from the horses mouth, so-to-speak. He also confirmed there were three Allens. One on the port side and two on the starboard. I have also suggested to Max that he gets himself onto SN!! Salaams Phil

Jim S
26th June 2007, 19:44
Phil,
Thanks for researching the Mangla/Mathura turbo-alternators and confirming they were Peter Brotherhood. - I am relieved that at least some part of the memory is still working.
There was a subtle difference on the manouevring control console between Mangla and Mathura that was pointed out to me by the 3/E that I sailed with on Mathura. As a "professional 3/E" and I must add a great guy - Mathura was his regular ship. However he did a coastal trip on Mangla and searched high and low for the fuel oil pressure regulator control - on Mathura it was console mounted beside the controls for the FD and ID fan dampers. On Mangla it extended through the floor plates at manouevring platform level a few feet in front of the boilers. It was only when he moved the Tindal out of the way did he discover the controller. The Tindal would stand there and watch what manouevres were taking place and with his back to the controller adjust it for the correct fuel oil pressure to the burners.
I cannot remember the name of a C/Eng on Mangla who went into the frig compartment every morning and pity help the J3/E if the leak detecting Tilley lamp was not hot to the touch.

Don A.Macleod
26th June 2007, 22:08
Phil/Jim
Well ,so be it, you and I were wrong Phil.The reason I was so sure was that I worked in the engine room of both of them from pre-launch to handing over and did coast both of them in later years.Had anyone asked me to this day I would have said instantly B&M as a matter of fact I don't recollect having came across PB equipment on Brock ships but then the grey cells could be acting up!However we have two leckies and two engineers in dispute(lol)!
So thats this round to you Jim! Good for the brain activity.
Salaams to you both

Roger Bentley
28th June 2007, 17:45
The foregoing is of interest but to a non marine engineer a bit puzzling!
There seems to be lot of references to the black four, six or eight or whatever. Can anyone give the definitive answer as to which were the real black four? Does anyone remember the chief engineers Archie Crossan, Alfie Gee, and a Mr Brady (he was chief on the Mathura in 1957) ? Archie was renowned for using a mixture of Bazaar Bhat whenever he needed everyone down below. Neechi Jow Tum C..... Salaams

japottinger
28th June 2007, 20:17
I think Jim S has given the definition of the real Black Four earlier, here goes: Manipur, Mahronda Maidan and Magdapur, so called as first Brocklebank ships with Foster Wheeler D (?) type water tube boilers, also had diesel generators.
Black? possibly as the uptake casings at back of the boilers leaked and filled the space at back with extremley noxious fumes. The Economiser tubes leaked very frequently, and it was heroic job to take off the back casing to get at the tube ends to use an expander, all the while being wafted with the very, verry, verrrry, hot fumes. How do I know all that? I have the scars to prove it!
But, good for promotion as one trip was enough for most.
Jim

Roger Bentley
28th June 2007, 22:06
Many thanks. Jim, Sorrry my initial reply was so brief but I was on my old PC and it was just about to die on me!. In view of what you said about the black four I can see why the engineers I showed on the photo thread had such black boiler suits. They were on the Magdapur at the time. It seems to me that there was a big turn round in staff once Brocklebanks began to sell ships. I wonder if there were redundancies or early retirement packages for the senior men. As I left the company in Febriary 1961 to begin another career the changes had not begun to bite.
All seemed to be smooth with no problems on the horizon, although they were already looming. Salaams

Tony Selman
29th June 2007, 09:52
I knew which ships they were but did not know the origin of "black". I always assumed it related to some horrendous engineering operation that was a combination of difficult, filthy and possibly dangerous. Seems I was not too far off the mark.

ken carr
29th June 2007, 13:15
My favourite ship beyond any doubt was the Mahanada, she was a very easy run ship and very rarley broke down (see Mahanada voyages) the engine room auxiliaries where half electric and half steam, Belliss-morecom recip gen-sets, they run like sewing machines, all up a very well balanced E.R. Like all Brock built vessels a very sound stable and good heavy weather ship.
accommodation was rather comfortable. This ship gentlemen was my second home for over three years of my life, over two years 1956 to1959 and again in63 and I loved every minute of it, every day I learned something new and evey week I had the opportunity to see how people lived in other parts of the world, it was not a learning curve but a learning circle. Add to this the ships crew, I could not have wished for better company Archie Crossan an absolute gentleman and a great Chief Eng an honour to have served under him
Two gentlemen on these voyages are names very familiar to S.N. Skymaster and Harry Nicholson (Hi Guys) . At a later date I shall be launching a thread about the 50th anniversary of these voyages complete whith Photo of complete ships officers in honour of Archie Crossens final voyage to sea
,please contact me privately If you would like a copy.
Regards Ken Carr
Tora Cheeny Tora Char

oglebilluk
29th June 2007, 14:31
Yes the Mahanada, but I only coasted on her in 1962.
My own favourite was Matra, my first ship in 1957. George Black was C/E.

In an obscure way I best enjoyed 3 trips on Malancha 1960/ 62 with Alf Manley as C/E. If only because she was a constant challenge and we didn't what would "fall off" next. We did a Southern States and filled with newsprint at the last port. After dropping the pilot it took several hours to get the revs up to full away - we decided this was the first full load she'd been asked to carry for many years!
Also Maipura. She was reputed to run like clockwork. however, as I remember it, we topped up bunkers just before leaving Calcutta for the States and the stuff just wouldn't burn. We stopped off at Columbo for a "while u wait" boiler clean, but 12 hours later were back to square one. For most of the passage to Aden we adjusted the main engine revs to maintain sufficient steam pressure to keep the genny going (no diesels on her). Russell Gordon was C/E and I remember him pleading with the Old Man (Kinley I think) to just ring "stop" when Aden was in sight. I think he did!
Happy days

Bill

S Fraser
29th June 2007, 16:59
My favourite ship beyond any doubt was the Mahanada, she was a very easy run ship and very rarley broke down (see Mahanada voyages) the engine room auxiliaries where half electric and half steam, Belliss-morecom recip gen-sets, they run like sewing machines, all up a very well balanced E.R. Like all Brock built vessels a very sound stable and good heavy weather ship.
accommodation was rather comfortable. This ship gentlemen was my second home for over three years of my life, over two years 1956 to1959 and again in63 and I loved every minute of it, every day I learned something new and evey week I had the opportunity to see how people lived in other parts of the world, it was not a learning curve but a learning circle. Add to this the ships crew, I could not have wished for better company Archie Crossan an absolute gentleman and a great Chief Eng an honour to have served under him
Two gentlemen on these voyages are names very familiar to S.N. Skymaster and Harry Nicholson (Hi Guys) . At a later date I shall be launching a thread about the 50th anniversary of these voyages complete whith Photo of complete ships officers in honour of Archie Crossens final voyage to sea
,please contact me privately If you would like a copy.
Regards Ken Carr
Tora Cheeny Tora Char

Ken,
Like you I had two trips totalling 16 months on the Mahanada, and thought she was a great ship, although starting to show her age. My first trip in 62 was with Charlie Grey as Master, ?Sinclair C/O, Barry Shawcross 2/O, Jim Taylor 3/O,and the other deck apprentice was a wild fellow Scot called Bruce Donnely. Karl Bilby as C/E, John Hoy 2/E, and I remember Max Benson, whose name has just appeared on another thread, and a new 5th called Eric Coward who used to keep us apprentices supplied with ale! ? Barnes was the Elec, Mike Pellow Sparks, and Fred Thompson Pursar, whom I seem to remember was a good feeder!
The 2nd trip which ran through the end of 63 was with MacLaren as Master , Spud Murphey C/O, Shawcross still there as 2/O, a larger than life 3/O, who was the spit of Brian Blessed the actor, called John DuVall. K Bilby was still C/E and a 2/E called Sinclair. Both trips had a Chippy called Jim Cameron (who was also a great source of Tennants) and 2 old hand QM's called MacGregor and Dougal Morrison who regularly went on "benders" that lasted for days.
However I think that my all time favourite was the Mangla where I also did 2 trips 65 and 66. Not only was she a very "good looking" and comfortable ship, but on the deck side with Philip Brand as Master, Erin Jackson C/O, Colin Croal as 2/O this was a superb team to serve with, and I learnt a lot about the job. ? Campbell was C/E, John Hoy 2/E , Jim Doulbey Elec, and Peter Wright and Norman Tremain were R/O's. Jim Cameron was Chippy and a very long service Q/M called Hughie Ross who never went ashore, and I think was homeless except for "his ship".. Great ship , great times!!
Stan

Bob_F
30th June 2007, 04:22
I have to agree I am sure the Turbo was Bellis & Morcom, of course its a long time ago 1960. Frank Howatt was Chief and Bob Beattie was 2nd and I was Sen 3rd. Bill Croft was Chief Elec. Was the alternator not by Peter Brotherhood? this would account for both names. Didn't want to leave the Mangla but was sent as 2nd on the Masud(the old Southwick) what a change.
Cheers.
Bob.

Philthechill
30th June 2007, 11:36
Bellis & Morcomb or Peter Brotherhood? "That (as Bill Shakespoke once said) is the question!"
Bob F from Canada, who sailed on "Mangla" as S3/E, and is sure that the turbo's were B & M, has put forward a good theory and that is, the turbine-end was B & M and the alternator was by Peter Brotherhood. Both Jim S and I, thinking along similar lines, have contacted Peter Brotherhood in the hope that they may be able to shed some light on the subject. I don't know about Jim but I received a knee-mail from a guy who said that without Serial Numbers it would be very difficult to dig-out the salient details. So it's back to the metaphorical drawing-board again. I'm going to be in touch with Charlie Drought over the weekend as he will be back from The Falklands by now and see if he can recall what they were. Watch this space!! Salaams, Phil Roe

Jim S
30th June 2007, 18:32
I cannot associate Peter Brotherhood with the electrical end of the turbo-alternator. It is my belief that Bellis & Morcom being a common steam recip drive for generators on many Brock ships has become logged in the memory banks to the exclusion of others. I cannot remember who supplied the a.c motors or alternators on Mangla or Mathura but I would put my money on WH Allen. - I do remember the main switchboard was supplied by Whip & Bourne.
Phil, You mentioned distillation plant on Maskeliya/Maturata. - Could it have been Caird & Raynor? They were main competition to Weir in that field for British built ships. Mangla & Mathura had Weir vacuum evaporators.

Jim S

john g
1st July 2007, 17:19
Ill give Allan a "bell ' and see what he can add and ahve him look for the oics one more time . Old man lost his job over the affair ( was demoted to mate ) real pity as I understand he was a good guy .
Derek

HI Derek, was John Pedley involved in the "incident" in Colombo.....I sailed with him on the Mahout he was 2/E I was under the impression he was there for motor time but have heard otherwise which came as a bit of a surprise....john g

john g
1st July 2007, 17:25
Without a doubt the Mahout was the best and well remember Don M as the electrician on that trip in fact I worked with him for a couple of weeks as part of the apprenticeship thing.........the worst without doubt the Luminous with John "turbo blower" Bain I went back on the Mahout after that one !!

Don A.Macleod
2nd July 2007, 23:42
You may be a bit confused here John,what I do know is that as chief he had a problem on one of the tankers where he lost LO to the camshaft on one of the main engines and as a result was knocked back to 2nd. I sailed with him after this incident and he was not a happy chappy.I quite liked John Pedley

Derek Roger
5th July 2007, 02:22
Without a doubt the Mahout was the best and well remember Don M as the electrician on that trip in fact I worked with him for a couple of weeks as part of the apprenticeship thing.........the worst without doubt the Luminous with John "turbo blower" Bain I went back on the Mahout after that one !!

Sailed the Lusterous as Chief Eng in 74 from Dubai to Stedingsond . It was Capt Bill Luckeys last trip before he retired . He was relieved in West Africa by Capt Dave Wolfenden . ( He did not want to " Do the Channel Again " )
He was twice in the water during the war and had started as deck hand and rose to Master ( Wonderfull Man )

John Bian met us at our terminal port and took Dave and I out to a marvelous dinner . Turbo blowers were not a problem if you kept on top of them !!! ( Change out on a regular basis ; about 1 per month!! they were Naipers and a real challange . Cargo vessels had Brown Boveri and were no problem at all )
Oh Happy Days Derek

Tony Selman
5th July 2007, 08:54
I sailed with Bill Luckey and John Bain on the same ship, which was Luxor in 1968. Bill Luckey was indeed an excellent Master and one of the best I ever sailed with. Because I had less to do with him on a day-to-day basis I have fewer memories of John Bain other than he got a awkward in restaurants and bars after a few drinks by refusing to pay for some minor reason. He was an uncompromising sort of man and when we flew home on a charter flight from Hong Kong he stood at the top of the aircraft steps and directed officers to go forward and the European crew (called white crew in those days) to go aft. His reasoning that on a long flight, it was 28 hours on a turbo prop aircraft, something alcohol related would go wrong turned out to be correct when we had one fight and one donkeyman tried to open the doors in mid flight. Several of us did go back and mix with many of the crew at the back end because we had got to know them well on what had been an excellent 9 month voyage.

Philthechill
6th July 2007, 05:13
I cannot associate Peter Brotherhood with the electrical end of the turbo-alternator. It is my belief that Bellis & Morcom being a common steam recip drive for generators on many Brock ships has become logged in the memory banks to the exclusion of others. I cannot remember who supplied the a.c motors or alternators on Mangla or Mathura but I would put my money on WH Allen. - I do remember the main switchboard was supplied by Whip & Bourne.
Phil, You mentioned distillation plant on Maskeliya/Maturata. - Could it have been Caird & Raynor? They were main competition to Weir in that field for British built ships. Mangla & Mathura had Weir vacuum evaporators.

Jim S You are correct, Jim, the evaps on "Maskeliya/Maturata" were, indeed Caird & Raynor! I recall having to take the h/x out of the one on "Maskeliya" and immersing it, for descaling, in a container full of hydrochloric acid which, because of the danger of carrying acid in concentrated form as a liquid, was actually a powder, which was then mixed with water for use. Can you remember the name of this powdered acid, Jim? I've been ratcheting around in the few hundred brain-cells I've got left but alas the ones' with the necessary "gen" have been designated "Not wanted on voyage". Maybe yours are in better nick than mine!!!! Burra salaams, Phil

Philthechill
6th July 2007, 05:33
Sailed the Lusterous as Chief Eng in 74 from Dubai to Stedingsond . It was Capt Bill Luckeys last trip before he retired . He was relieved in West Africa by Capt Dave Wolfenden . ( He did not want to " Do the Channel Again " )
He was twice in the water during the war and had started as deck hand and rose to Master ( Wonderfull Man )

John Bian met us at our terminal port and took Dave and I out to a marvelous dinner . Turbo blowers were not a problem if you kept on top of them !!! ( Change out on a regular basis ; about 1 per month!! they were Naipers and a real challange . Cargo vessels had Brown Boveri and were no problem at all )
Oh Happy Days Derek
Derek! I'm going for my third knock-back in a row!!! I was wrong about the turbo-alternators on "Mangla/Mathura" being Bellis & Morcomb, wrong about the evaps on "Maskeliya/Maturata" and now I'm risking a further knock-back with this one!!! Ho-hum c'est la vie as they'd say!!!! I seem to remember the turbo-blowers on the Allen alternators, on "Mangla", being Napiers and not being any trouble at all. The only 'must do' was changing the bearings at the appropriate 'hours-run' (4000?) time. Obviously main-engine turbo's would be a different kettle of fish!! Burra salaams! Phil

john g
6th July 2007, 15:00
Thanks for the info on John P Don. I know it was a long time ago but John was a great guy who I got on well with on the Mahout second time around.I had a feeling there had been a problem but he never discussed it. He was with his wife Joy on that trip last I heard he was living in North Wales

gwzm
6th July 2007, 16:44
John G,

I sailed with John Pedley when he was 2/E on the Mahseer in 1963. Sometime in the early-/mid-80s I met an ex-Brocklebank engineer, Dennis xxxxxxxx, who had lived close to John & Joy in Wales and he told me then that John had crossed the bar. I also heard later that Dennis xxxxxxxx had been killed in an accident on a P&O ship in (I think) Hong Kong when a watertight door they were working on in the engine room closed on him.

All the best,

gwzm/John

japottinger
7th July 2007, 15:23
Re evaps, the Matra had a make which I cannot recall at the moment, but was a fancy affair with a rather flexible corrugated type membrane inside, controlled by a "switchboard" with a vertiable Concorde array of lights. Very rarely could we ever get it to show all green.
2d Eng was a fellow (?) Duncan from Aberdeen, and always timed it for the 21-4 to start it up, when I called him at 0400 he used to sit up in bunk with eyes still shut, "is the evap on?! "Well no 2nd, you se we have had a bit of trouble ------"
On hearing that he used to slump back in his bunk with a loud groan!
Dave Ruddick was 5th eng on watch with me, and one night we reckoned that the sea water inlet was restricting the flow to the evap., and had the bright idea of breaking a joint in the inlet pipe, (we were loaded and pipe was well below waterline, so you know what happened next!)
I never knew you could get such a flow and drenching of icy water from a 2inch pipe!
I tell you we were mightly relieved to manage to get the flanges together and a bolt inserted.
Naturally we said nothing to anyone about hazarding the ship, however the
2nd was intrigued as to why we both looked wringing wet apparently with sweat in mid Atlantic in December!

Jim S
7th July 2007, 17:33
Phil,
Regarding descaling chemicals - You have got me there - I can only remember a product called Saf -Acid. As I recall it was a powder and came in cardboard drums But as it was made by Drew Chemical Corp. then I guess it must have been from my days with Fyffes rather than Brocks.
Re-Maturata I remember she had glass air heater tubes in her Scotch Boilers.
These were made by Pilkingtons as a replacement for the corrosion prone mild steel variety. Despite extensive testing by Pilkington Maturata seemed very capable of shattering them. I beleve they were on trial on Maturata. - Did the experiment continue and were they used on other ships? At least tube replacement was quite straightforward.

Masirah
10th July 2007, 18:47
Masirah - has to be the principal candidate, first trip apprentice and several others culminating in a half trip as 4th Mate. My first trip was her second so we kind of grew up together. Stan Broughton was her 1st Master he left just before the start of my last trip in her when Captain Simpson took over. Owen Pritchard was the Mate for my first voyage, others on board were:

J W Morgan 2nd Mate
A F Richards 3rd Mate
J R Taylor 4th Mate
J W Brand C/E
H Moss 2nd Eng
E P Waddell 3rd Eng
K A Fleming X3 Eng
W Whitelaw 4th Eng
J W Arthurs X4th Eng
D A Humiston 5th Eng
Stan Robinson Elect
W Murphy C/Stwd
Fred Ambrose 2nd Stwd
B R Banks C R/O
John Bently 2nd R/O
D R Newland S App
D A Hammond App.
Pete G Fuller Eng App.
OM were D Black, A Henderson, D MacLean, A MacQuarrie
E L Forster Carpenter.

I rejoined her as Sen. Apprentice on 14th October 1959, and stayed with her until 10th of Jan 1961. In that time there were many new faces but still some of the old ones. Owen Prichard had left to become Master and for the life of me I cannot remember the new C/O, Malcolm Maclean had taken over as C/RO, Fred Ambrose had become Ch/Stwd on Markhor (1), If anyone can fill in the blanks I would be very grateful. How foolish not to take notes of who was with us in those days.

I see we have had one vote for Malakand (III) She was my last trip having transfered to her in Calcutta as she had no 4th Mate and found herself on a Southern States run, Masirah should have taken it but we were 10 days too late for the berth. Capt Simpson was not best pleased but orders is orders so off I went. She was a good ship if a somewhat troubled old girl. It seemed she had a taste for boiler water that her engineers had trouble satisfying and required a stop at Ceuta before setting out across the western ocean. Our troubles were by no means over as a couple of days out from Ceuta we encountered some chunky weather so much so that the steering decided that enough was enough and it was time to leave. The holding down bolts sheered and the engine went walk about. To our acute embarrassment this meant the it was disengaged from the steering Rams making any wheel movements ineffective. This occurred just a few minutes after I had handed over to the third mate for the evening 8-12. The first person entering the steering flat was nearly mowed down by the engine trying desperately to escape it confinement. However at great personal risk to the engineers the engine was lassoed and secured with a massive network of wires. I recall we had a cable from Liverpool saying that they were thinking of us and hoped for a proper outcome. Nice touch. Since the weather was such that any major alteration of course was out of the question we headed towards Bermuda but were unable to make the necessary course change so continued on towards Newport News and drydock so the Yanks could put the thing back together. Which they did and we steamed off to deliver our cargo. We of course missed out scheduled return to the UK. If I remember rightly we docked in Norfolk first and were promptly invaded by the CIA to be photographed, finger printed questioned at great length about our life and that of our nearest and dearest before being issued with an ID card after all this had been entered on their database. Bit tiresome but thats Yanks for you. At least we were allowed ashore which is more that can be said for theses days in the US of A. Being Malakand we took it in out stride. You would have though that that was enough but no so. We had a sulphur fire in No. 3 while loading the horrible yellow powder in Port Sulphur. That was the last incident and we eventually arrived in Liverpool on the 13th April 1961. While almost exactly 3 months it was a very happy trip with a very good crowd on a very good ship.

But what of Markhor (1) a real lady crewed by a bunch of mad men under the guidance of Capt MacLaren. Only one trip but a blinder never the less, Fred Ambrose was C/Stew, Pete Swift 2nd Mate, all insane but very pleasantly so. A voyage to remember.

Michael Meredith

japottinger
23rd July 2007, 21:52
A blast from the past, I seem to recall you as 2nd RO on Manipur, Ch.RO was Stan Dunn, could that be correct?

Tony Selman
25th July 2007, 12:12
Jim, would that CR/O not have been Sandy Dunn? I don't recall a Stan Dunn.

Roger Bentley
25th July 2007, 16:50
A photo on offer. During my last tour in Hong Kong I decided to try and buy Skyfoto pictures of all the ships I had sailed on deep sea or coasting.
In the case of the Maihar although I had stated 1917 as her date of building they instead sent me one of the modern vessel. If anyone would like this please let me know and it is yours free and I will even pay the postage if it is in the UK. It is the usual black and white 10 by 8 inch print mounted in a simple card frame. The negative number on the back is CN6532. I don't think the quality is so good compared to their earlier photos and I am not even sure if the coast line shown is in the UK! She has as deck cargo a large launch possibly military. First come first served! Now re Masirah's message earlier - nice to see my brother John mentioned as 2R/O but it is Bentley not Bently! Salaams, Roger

japottinger
25th July 2007, 21:59
Jim, would that CR/O not have been Sandy Dunn? I don't recall a Stan Dunn.

Yes, my mistake, was Sandy from Greenock, I met him in Aberdeen a few years ago.

Don A.Macleod
26th July 2007, 10:34
Yes, my mistake, was Sandy from Greenock, I met him in Aberdeen a few years ago.

Sandy was indeed from Greenock Jim.

Cunarder
26th July 2007, 23:17
I sailed with Sandy on Cunard Adventurer - he has a lot to answer for - he introduced me to my wife of the past 29 years! Does anyone have his contact details at all?

Alan Marsden

sparkie2182
26th July 2007, 23:50
hello again alan............

i exchanged a few emails with fred tordoff last year.........
i was wondering if you remember him.

best regards.....

allan

Philthechill
27th July 2007, 05:45
I sailed with Sandy on Cunard Adventurer - he has a lot to answer for - he introduced me to my wife of the past 29 years! Does anyone have his contact details at all?

Alan Marsden Alan! If Sandy Dunn's first name is Frank, and his missis is called Anne, then I can send you his contact details. Salaams, Phil Roe

Tony Selman
27th July 2007, 09:54
Gentlemen

Sandy's younger brother is called Frank and he was also a Brock's R/O. I don't know Sandy's whereabouts but I do have Frank's contact details and it seems highly likely Frank will know where his brother is. If anyone wants Frank's address please send me a private message and I will reply.

SCOTHEDE
27th July 2007, 13:54
My favourite was Mathura on which I sailed as junior eng in 1970.
I find it difficult to recall all on board but here are some I remember. Chief eng. George Black + wife; 2nd eng Brian Pert; 3rd eng Charlie Drought +wife (Betty); 4th eng Tom Lilley; Chief elec Ted Goodwin. The old man was Captain James, can't remember his first name. The deck officers I can only remember first names, from the chief in descending order they were Derek; jack and Rhys. If anyone reads this who was on the Mathura at that time perhaps they can fill in missing names plus others I have not mentioned.
Cheers, Derek Scothern.