Going value of a Chief Engineer in 1971? 10!!!

Philthechill
8th July 2007, 07:46
What an extraordinary statement to make and how has it been worked out? Probably anyone who reads the above "Thread" will wonder at its veracity!!!!
October 28th 1971 and "Atlantic Causeway" had been in drydock in Greenock and, because of the complexity of her control-system, it was considered prudent to have mini sea-trials (similar to new-build sea-trials) to make certain everything worked correctly. All engineers were in the Control Room so as to have the maximum number of eyes watching-over the various systems in case something went ****-up. "Mac" McKenzie was Chief Engineer with Tony Dick 2/E, self S3/E, Davey Jones J3/E, John Jones 4/E, Jack McGuire S/Elec. and a bloke who I can't remember J/Elec.
Ken ("Mac") decided he was going down below to check-round. A little later we heard a strangled cry of "Help me! I'm hurt!", over the talk-back.
The ship had executed a sharp turn and "Mac" had fallen and was quite badly injured so the ship returned to The Tail of The Bank and dropped the pick whilst a doctor was brought out to assess "Mac's" injuries. He said he had broken some ribs and may also have internal injuries so he needed to be hospitalised. "Mac" was strapped into a cane-and-canvas stretcher in order to get him out the engine-room and into the launch which had been summoned from "the beach". One of the rarely-used side-doors of the ship had been opened for him to be lowered. "Mac", in stretcher, had just reached the roof of the launch when its engine stopped and it began to pay-off rapidly from the side of the ship. Someone shouted at the AB on the rope to "Let go". Unfortunately the "dogs-dick" on the rope-end fouled-up in the rope-block and "Mac" was dragged-off the roof of the launch into The Clyde. (I must add here that I had left the Control Room, (with Tony's blessing!!) to assist with "Mac's" repatriation and was one of the spectators to this incident).
Seeing "Mac" was in grave danger I divested myself of my shoes and leapt into the river to help him, supporting him 'til the blokes on the launch got the engine fired-up and rescued "Mac" from the river.
The outcome of this episode was that "The Liverpool Shipwreck and Humane Society" gave me a medal and parchment to commemorate the event and Cunard decided that one of their Directors (a Mr. Crawford) would present me with the awards "and a monetary recognition of your selfless act" at the end of my "two trips on" some time later (almost two years in actual fact). After I had been presented with the awards and had posed for the obligatory photo's my first ex-wife, (who was with me on the trip), and I excitedly went down to our cabin to see what size the "monetary-recognition" actually was. I don't mind admitting that thoughts of being able to put the deposit down on a new Cortina had flashed through my mind!! Opened the envelope to find a cheque for £10!!! I couldn't resist going up see "Mac" in his cabin to relay the good news that Cunard thought his value to them was "a tenner". I can't remember exactly what he said but it probably cast grave doubts on the entire Board of Directors, of Cunard, never knowing who their fathers were!! Incidentally "Mac", on his return to the ship, after his recovery, presented me with a memento of the event which I thought was absolutely brilliant. A Long-Playing record of "Handels Water Music"!!! The above yarn shows how much value (£10) Cunard put on their Chief Engineers in 1971!! Burra salaams! Phil Roe

jim barnes
8th July 2007, 08:48
Good story Phil, yes it probably sums up the value shiping companies put on their crews. not like the people that worked in their officees who probably got bonusus and sick paid leave etc and never got their socks wet....

sparkie2182
8th July 2007, 19:40
i remember phil..........as an r/o in the cunard......... former atlantic conveyor r/o in fact...............receiving a telegram expressing concern that office staff had been having had their weekends dislocated by ships at sea actually requiring support.
it more or less read..........weekends for office staff should be viewed
as "guarded hours"......i remember that term..........
so, presumably,if a ship needs shoreside support, it should timed to coincide with office hours (u.k.) only.


regards.........

JoK
8th July 2007, 23:03
Good story

As for "guarded hours"......
I must remember that the next time I get a call from a ship to say they've been aground

(Thumb)

sparkie2182
8th July 2007, 23:05
it only works in the u.k. jok...............lol :)

Geoff Garrett
8th July 2007, 23:18
Was he a Geordie?

JoK
8th July 2007, 23:24
it only works in the u.k. jok...............lol :)

I had a big long discussion with a Chief early one morning over issues they were having. When we had sorted it out, I asked him what day it was. He was honestly puzzled and I could hear him counting on his fingers. Finally he came back with: umm...Sunday?
I said yes,
his response? What the heck are you doing with your cell on???

Waiting for your call, I said. (Actually I was on the road and forgot the phone was on) (Jester)

sparkie2182
8th July 2007, 23:29
lol.........lol..............:)

lakercapt
9th July 2007, 00:37
The value of ships crews is a very interesting subject.
One company I worked for had their annual Christmas party. The "Company" Christmas party it was proported to be.
I asked if any of the captains or chief engineers that were home were to be invited (we all lived close to the party venue).
Oh no, its the company Christmas party only for the office staff and their relatives!!!!!.
Guess the people that earned the revinue were not considered as part of the "company".
I was somewhat upset but there again were we not always outsiders??
Bill

JoK
9th July 2007, 00:45
I always try to talk the young engineers into coming in the office for a year or so. It is an excellent learning experience. If anything it teaches them that yes, we do actually do something other then avoid the phone and that if you have lights, aren't sinking or on fire you are not top priority, someone is probably having worse problems then you.

Geoff Garrett
10th July 2007, 00:28
Hello Philthechill,
For saving life at sea there is no monetary reward. How could there possibly be? It is your(our) duty to participate and failure to respond is in fact a crime.

What has always intrigued me, is people who get lost or stranded in the mountains of Switzerland have to pay to be rescued(this is Switzerland I am talking about after all!). Before embarking on a rescue, the rescuers will negotiate a price with relatives/friends and if it is attractive enough, will affect rescue.

Our tradition is different, for those in peril on the sea, help is given freely and automatically and as your timely action was in no small measure valiant, so you were honoured with a suitable decoration.

The 10 quid you were given was to cover your travelling expenses.

Rgds,
Geoff.

Philthechill
10th July 2007, 07:57
Hello Philthechill,
For saving life at sea there is no monetary reward. How could there possibly be? It is your(our) duty to participate and failure to respond is in fact a crime.

What has always intrigued me, is people who get lost or stranded in the mountains of Switzerland have to pay to be rescued(this is Switzerland I am talking about after all!). Before embarking on a rescue, the rescuers will negotiate a price with relatives/friends and if it is attractive enough, will affect rescue.

Our tradition is different, for those in peril on the sea, help is given freely and automatically and as your timely action was in no small measure valiant, so you were honoured with a suitable decoration.

The 10 quid you were given was to cover your travelling expenses.

Rgds,
Geoff. Geoff! Salaams! I fully concur with your thoughts on the saving of life at sea being free, gratis and for bugger-all and you can rest assured that just before leaving the sanctuary of the ship and hitting a very cold Clyde (incidentally I've devoted the rest of my life trying to find the rotten so-and-so who pushed me in!!!!) I wasn't thinking along the lines of "If I do this I may get enough of a reward to finance a new motor!" However (the inevitable "However" now creeps in!!) I am puzzled with your saying the "tenner" I got was for "travelling expenses". Could you explain this thinking in a little more detail please. Is it expenses incurred when I left the ship to affect the rescue of "Mac"? No parachute was used to aid my descent (15'-20') into the Clyde so no expense there! I was already on the ship when the presentation of the medal, parchment, and tenner was made so, again, no travel-expenses involved to get me on "Causeway" for said presentation. I WAS paying-off after the ceremony and going home with, of course, a travel-warrant, no expense again. I paid for my first ex-wife's travel home so the "tenner" wasn't for THAT use. I firmly believe the money was just to say "Ta for saving our Chief Engineer as that's what he's worth to us!!" (All said with tongue in cheek I hasten to add!!) Salaams, Phil Roe
P.S. I see, from your "Profile", Geoff, that you are attempting to grow Kiwi-fruit. May I humbly suggest you try your local supermarket as they may stock them. I know Asda near me have always got them in. I once tried to grow a cow so I could always have a supply of fresh milk but, what with the cost of a pasteurising plant, steam-raising plant for the hot water and fridge plant for cooling water for the pasteuriser, and cooling the stored milk, I realised that it was cheaper to go to Asda and buy milk from them. Hope this advice is of some use. Phil

LEEJ
10th July 2007, 11:22
Slightly off topic - but the secretary of the CEO of a well known shipping company who recently received pay off in the millions sent a memo to a company ship suggesting that the crew (minimum wage, temporary contract)have a whipround for his retirement.

JoK
10th July 2007, 13:39
The tenner was for the needles you needed, after the impromptu dip in the harbour, to prevent weird and wonderful diseases. Or is that only here in the Halifax Harbour?
Didn't they tell you??

Philthechill
10th July 2007, 14:41
The tenner was for the needles you needed, after the impromptu dip in the harbour, to prevent weird and wonderful diseases. Or is that only here in the Halifax Harbour?
Didn't they tell you?? JoK, Salaams! With your saying that the tenner was for needles to give me jabs, after my impromptu swim in t'Clyde, I've realised NOW what the tenner was probably for!! When I was hauled back on board the ship the Chief Steward (Billy Don) gave me a couple of large glasses of rum and said, "That'll soon get your circulation going Phil!" Perhaps Cunard thought I'd paid for the grog and were reimbursing me!! In which case the value of a Chief Engineer in 1971, to Cunard, was SFA!!! Incidentally I didn't realise that Halifax Harbour was full of noxious wee beasties ready to invade your unsuspecting bod should you fall in! Manchester Ship Canal, definitely! Kidderpore and KG V Dock's, Calcutta, MOST definitely!!! Salaams! Phil Roe

JoK
10th July 2007, 16:47
Raw sewage in Halifax, Saint John NB, and St John's Nfld harbours. Halifax is addressing it with new treatment plants.


Like a cruise ship Captain said, after a passenger inquired over the whirlpool on the other side of the harbor in St John's and the extraordinary amount of seabirds-no one wants to know that their dream cruise includes a visit to someone else's toilet.


The Chief was lucky you were handy to rescue him. He was a goner strapped into that stretcher.
We lost a stretcher case years ago in a chopper crash off of the ship. Everyone got out, except for the poor bugger strapped into the back. They couldn't get to him in time, horrible accident :(

Geoff Garrett
10th July 2007, 23:38
Philthechil,
I'm not growing, A Kiwifruit(Zespri). I'm growing it by the Hectare.
Rgds.

Philthechill
10th July 2007, 23:47
Just had a thought! Can you imagine what it would be like, today, to leap into the 'oggin to aid someone who had fallen in? The 'elf & safety Gestapo would be onto you like a ton of bricks for leaping in without (a) a method statement (b) a risk assessment (c) a permit to work (PTW) and (d) being fully equipped with life-saving gear from immersion-suit to BA set! Before jumping in you would need to fill-in the method-statement which would detail your approach to the task in hand, "I would make sure that I will be safely lowered (no jumping allowed--------too dangerous) from the ship using steel cable with a breaking-strain of at least two tonnes (note the use of metrication there!!!) until I touched the surface of the water where I would remain for as long as it took for me to get used to the water-temperature. Then I would be lowered further until I was alongside the casualty. If he/she looked as if they were going to cause problems, e.g. make a grab for me, I would then be hauled out of the water until the casualty calmed down. The attempt at rescue could then, and only then, be allowed to proceed". The risk assessment would have to detail ALL risks, from being drowned, to being bitten by some viscious sea-creature, to hitting the bottom of the sea to being covered in turds from a toilet discharge. The PTW would have to have all relevant parts filled-in from working on roofs/confined spaces/radiation hazards all the way through to, "Does the rescue-attempt entail any hot-work?". An immersion-suit would be mandatory in the event the rescue-attempt was being made in water-temperatures of anything below 20C and a BA set would have to be worn if there was any chance that the rescuers head may go under the surface during the rescue. Course by the time all this garbage had been filled-in/attended to the poor bugger you were trying to rescue would have drowned!! Just a thought! Phil Roe

Philthechill
10th July 2007, 23:58
Philthechil,
I'm not growing, A Kiwifruit(Zespri). I'm growing it by the Hectare.
Rgds. Geoff! Not being au fait with NZ, is the Hectare a river there? Toodle-pip! Phil