Cerinthus (II) - 1947-1951

aj hawker
2nd August 2007, 18:13
Came across a photograph of the Cerinthus, an old pre war cargo ship under the Houlder Bros livery funnel markings (Maltese Cross) ect. I know that Hadley and Houlder were near enough one of the same, can any one enlighten me on this, nice easy one for you Tonga.
Regards AJ(Thumb)

non descript
2nd August 2007, 18:19
AJ, I will have to double check later, but my initial guess is that we are talking about the early 1950’s when Hadley Shipping owned a liberty ship called Cerinthus and she may well have been on charter to Houlders (hence the Maltese Cross and not the HSC Diamond on her fuinnel). She was sold for £580,000 to Gouldandris in 1952.

My apologies for the scant information.

non descript
2nd August 2007, 20:36
Now we have better facts. - The 1947-1951 Cerinthus was the second ship to bear the name (the world’s favourite tanker is Number 3 (Jester) ) – She spent her entire career whilst under HSC Ownership, on time-charter to Houlder Brothers. She was launched as Nikola Tesla at Bethlehem Fairfield Shipyard, Baltimore (Yard Number 2240) and delivered 04-10-1943 and named Samkansa. She was purchased by Hadleys for £135,000 on 17-04-1947. When sold in November 1951 to Capeside (Goulandris) she was re-named Phassa. Sold in 1953 to Coulothros and re-named Urana. She was sold to Evergreen in 1964 and re-named Concord Venture and sold for scrap in Japan, arriving at Miyachi Salvage Compamy 10-01-1970

aj hawker
2nd August 2007, 23:22
Thanks for all that info Tonga, one little hic-up although not your fault but i think photo shows her at Ranks Mills at my home port of Barry not 100% but 99-9%, funny you came up with that photograph,i saw a different one with a deck cargo, many thanks yet again.
Regards AJ

non descript
2nd August 2007, 23:39
AJ, Thanks for the gentle correction. It never ceases to surprise me how many errors get perpetuated merely because they appear in the wrriten word and are therefore taken as gospel; so it is a pleasure to have it corrected.

I have taken the liberty of altering the title to reflect which of the 5 Cerinthi she is (Jester) - I have also moved the thread into a happy home, where she can lie NAABSA with her friends... (Thumb)

aj hawker
2nd August 2007, 23:50
My pleasure Tonga, and thank you for finding her a happy berth.
AJ

non descript
3rd August 2007, 00:03
I know that Hadley and Houlder were near enough one of the same, can any one enlighten me on this,

AJ,

I realized I only answered half your question. Yes, Hadley and Houlder were near enough one of the same in terms of crewing, but the Ship Management and Ship Finance were wholly separate; i.e. HSC merely bought in such sea staff as they wanted from Houlders, everything else they did, was solely on their own with no connections to their neighbours.

Hadleys was a family company and quite separate from Houlders, although Houlder Brothers did have a 5pct shareholding when the company was formed on 18th December 1926 (to take advantage of the Anglo-Saxon Petroleum Company (i.e. Shell) Sale & Charter-Back scheme). The name of the company, The Hadley Shipping Company Ltd., was chosen due to Walter Warwick’s home being at Hadley Wood in Hertfordshire and the office was located within Houlder Brothers office at 53 Leadenhall Street (originally on the 2nd floor along with everyone else, but ousted to the ground floor when Tung bought the Group and put the FW and the Houlders bits together), where they remained for 61 years, until in 1987 with the Furness Withy Group moving to Redhill, HSC opted to move to their own offices in Wapping, where they are to this day.

When, in December 1926, Mr Lewis Warwick and Mr Graham Esplen (later Sir Graham) formed the plan to create HSC, they arranged soon afterwards to also create a separate private company to act as Agents for all of Hadley’s business, quite reasonably taking an agency fee for the service provided; that company was called Warwick & Esplen Ltd., and it continues today, living in the same office as HSC.

With apologies to those who have heard it before. (Thumb)

gdynia
3rd August 2007, 08:49
Mark
Its nice to get some info of the people behind the scenes

JohnMac068
3rd August 2007, 18:34
Does HSC still exist, they were part of a consortium that built the six roll on/off ships for the MOD, see www.dunelmpr.co.uk/forelandNEW.html and I heard somewhere that HSC were bought out by Andrew Weir (also part of the group).

non descript
3rd August 2007, 19:48
The Hadley Shipping Company Limted is most certainly alive and well, with the 5th generation of the family in control. Yes they are also part of the consortium named Foreland Shipping Limited - but why on earth that press release uses a wholly incorrect name like Houlder Hadley is quite beyond me - but then again, press releases do tend to be wide of the mark a lot of the time (Jester)

Apart from having that share in the six 20,000-tonne ro-ro vessels with charters to the Ministry of Defence, they also own 4 Panamax Bulk carriers:

Clare DWT 74,500 74,500 United Kingdom 2005 Hudong Zhonghua
Clymene DWT 74,000 74,000 United Kingdom 2006 Jiangnan S.Y.
Cymbeline DWT 73,060 73,060 Bahamas 2001 Sumitomo H.I.
Cumbria DWT 69,043 69,043 United Kingdom 1994 Imabari S.B.

K urgess
3rd August 2007, 20:08
Cerinthus (I) had a red funnel with a black top and was managed by the Immingham Agency Co.Ltd. She looked like the attached.

Cerinthus (II) appears to have a Houlder's funnel.

The world's favourite tanker had the proper yellow funnel with the HSC diamond.

Question is - when did all these changes take place? Particularly when the yellow funnel came into use.

non descript
3rd August 2007, 23:04
Kris,

You pose a good question and someone a lot wiser than me has suggested in an earlier life that “Assumption is the Mother of all Mistakes”, so I will avoid assumption and stick only to the facts.

Cerinthus (I) was launched by Hawthorn Leslie at Newcastle 23-08-1930 at a cost of £30,000 for Hadley Shipping, she was delivered 20-12-1930. She was torpedoed and shelled (by U-128) on 9-12-1942 whilst in ballast from London and Oban to Freetown and sank in position 12.27N and 27.45W - very sadly 20 of her crew of 39 were lost. Her initial two years of service were spent on charter to the American Texas Oil Company, but that does not explain her funnel. She then traded spot and was laid up during 1934-35.

From the start, the Hadley fleet were all managed by the Immingham Agency Company Ltd., but they were strictly the Managers of the ships and not the Owners.

None of this answers your question about the Red & Black funnel and I will not speculate on why the early ships all had these funnel colours, suffice to say that the first three ships ever owned by HSC - Cepolis, Corato, Cerinthuus – all carried this red and black funnel. The next three Hadley ships – Bassethound, Jamaica Planter and Daxhound also failed to have the Yellow and Black funnel of Hadleys, and instead had a varied array of colours on show. The seventh ship – the Cerinthus (II) had the Houlders funnel colours, but then (as already discussed) she was on time-charter to Houlders throughout her entire life, so that explains this one. Finally we come to the eighth ship to be owned by HSC, the Corato (II) (1952-1962) and this is the first ship that I see as having the proper Hadley funnel including the diamond; as you wisely point out, the world’s favourite tanker (the ninth ship in the fleet) came complete with a proper yellow funnel and diamond.

So without making any assumptions, there is room to believe that whilst the HSC house flag was in use from the very start, the first ship to carry the funnel colours was Corato (II) in March 1952 when she was delivered by Scotts at Greenock (actually it was called Greenock Dockyard Company Ltd, and Scott was the name of the engine builders)

I seem to have written a lot but answered nothing - my apologies.

K urgess
4th August 2007, 00:32
My 1942 Talbot Booth has Hadley down as owning Cerinthus (1930), Daxhound (1931) and Radbury (1910).

Also managed by Immingham Agency were -
The Iranian Tanker Co. Ltd., who are listed as having no ships at this time. Plain red funnel.
Coastal Tankers Co. Ltd., who's funnel was the same as Hadley, and had Bassethound (1934) and Otterhound (1927).

Unfortunately my book doesn't show the house flag for some reason.

PS Jamaica Planter I have as built 1936 and owned by Jamaica Banana Producers SS Co. Ltd.

Dave Edge
4th August 2007, 02:28
According to the book 'Hadley' by W. J. Harvey, a history of Hadleys, Immingham Agency Company had a yellow funnel with black top, Coastal Tankers Ltd red with black top, Iranian Tankers Company plain red, Esplen Trust black with quartered yellow and black band (not clear if this was a band or panel), Leadenhall Shipping Company either red with white band and blue top or white cross on red disc on white square on black funnel.
House flags, Immingham Agency, black IAC on white diamond on yellow pennant, Coastal Tankers black CT on white diamond on yellow flag, Iranian Tankers black ITC on white diamond on yellow flag, Esplen Trust black E on white diamond on yellow flag.
Not sure if this clarifies or confuses.

K urgess
4th August 2007, 12:15
For some reason my 1942 Talbot-Booth points me to funnel number 943 for Immingham Agency, which is red top, narrow white band, broad black band, narrow white band and blue lower half, and listed as the one for London River tugs.

I have a suspicion that this may be a typo 'cos number 945 is cream/yellow with a narrow black top.

Do you think I should write and tell them?[=P]

Thanks for the info, Dave. Particularly about the book. I've just ordered a copy.

Cheers
Kris

non descript
4th August 2007, 12:41
Kris and Dave, your input is more than helpful and to quote that Old Tongan proverb, “Only by pulling back the palm fronds does one locate the real Fruit” and so it is, that only through discussion can we find the real facts. (EEK)

The Radbury was not owned by Hadley, merely managed; she was slightly unfortunate in that whilst built by William Doxford and delivered to her owners in 1910, these owners were in Austria-Hungary, which in 1914 was not quite the right thing… as a result she was captured on 13-08-1914 and taken into Penzance by the Bitish Fishery protection Crusier SQUIRREL. By the time of the Second World War, she again found herself on the wrong side and was captured following the invasion of Yugoslavia and transferred to the Ministry of War Transport, given the name RADBURY and HSC were appointed as managers. Her last voyage was from Lourenco Marques with coal, and she was attacked by U-862 and sunk in 24.20S – 41.45E. Sadly 19 crew and 1 gunner were lost.

I had expected to be pulled up over the inclusion of Jamaica Planter, (Jester) but she is correctly placed. – She was built for HSC by Lithgows at a cost of £152,000 and delivered to Hadleys in August 1936. In September 1940 she was sold to Jamaica Banana Producers’ Steamship Co Ltd., of Kingston Jamaica, but Kaye, Son and Co Ltd were appointed managers, so she remained, as it were, close to the family.

Mark

K urgess
4th August 2007, 14:25
To paraphrase Oscar Wilde
"To be on the wrong side once looks like misfortune, to do it twice looks like carelessness" and then to be sunk by one's previous owners! Oh dear.

The Talbot-Booth is very good but reflects a snapshot in time rather than a history. I should imagine that the 1943 and 1944 editions are considerably thinner.

When I get my copy of "Hadley" I may be able to keep pace. Although you appear to have gathered quite a bit of information, Oh wise counter of coconuts, and I will no doubt still fall behind in this area of expertise.:sweat:

Kris

non descript
4th August 2007, 14:43
Kris,

I am afraid to say that all I really know is how little I know.

(Thumb)

Mark

marinero
4th August 2007, 16:48
To paraphrase Oscar Wilde
"To be on the wrong side once looks like misfortune, to do it twice looks like carelessness" and then to be sunk by one's previous owners! Oh dear.

The Talbot-Booth is very good but reflects a snapshot in time rather than a history. I should imagine that the 1943 and 1944 editions are considerably thinner.

When I get my copy of "Hadley" I may be able to keep pace. Although you appear to have gathered quite a bit of information, Oh wise counter of coconuts, and I will no doubt still fall behind in this area of expertise.:sweat:

Kris

Hi Kris.
I felt I must comment on your description of Tonga as "Oh wise counter of coconuts" What a wonderful expression, and one which Tonga, I'm sure, will appreciate.
It brings to mind Tonga on some deserted sandy beach(with a laptop and a gin & tonic) as he contributes his much appreciated knowledge to our forums.
Regards
Leo (Thumb)

K urgess
4th August 2007, 17:14
Yeah, Leo.
Don't some people have all the luck.(Cloud)
If you look really closely you can see him here (http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/73370/what/allfields/name/tonga/name/tonga) [=P]

Kris

marinero
4th August 2007, 19:09
Hi Kris.
Silly me, I should have looked more closely, it's a Rum & Coke.
Regards
Leo (Thumb)

aj hawker
5th August 2007, 12:17
8120
Hi Mark
Here is a photo of the Cerinthus 2 this is the one that started the ball rolling, again copyright i do not know.
Regards AJ(Thumb)

K urgess
16th August 2007, 16:54
HSC Funnel

Having reached the page in the book concerning the matter -

"She was given the name CORATO after one of the original tankers in the fleet and was the first vessel to be bedecked with the new funnel markings of a black 'HSC' on a white diamond, superimposed on the original black topped yellow funnel......."

1952 is the date. Quote from Hadley by W.J. Harvey.

Nice that the purpose built and owned Hadley tanker was Cerinthus I

non descript
31st August 2007, 00:04
Fubar,

My congratulations to you Sir, on an excellent new avatar which seems to incorporate the World's Favourite Tanker.... (Applause)