moving right along...................amver + obs

[sparkie2182]

has anyone still got the met office atlas he was given for assiduously sending in obs messages?

and has anyone got a blue and white amver pennant? liberated from a ship sent for scrap perhaps?


its all history now, this stuff

[K urgess]

Who ever assiduously sent in OBS messages?

It was OK if you could find some sucker willing to take them, usually they ended up in the CQ bin with nobody bothering to listen.
I had no idea they gave away atlases probably because nobody wanted my OBS messages.

Never saw an AMVER pennant, probably nicked as soon as they arrived onboard.
Saw plenty of USCG Orions and Neptunes when you didn't send one.[=P]

[sparkie2182]

being an assiduous r/o..........

i sent lots...........:)

just the kind of guy i am.......i guess...........:)

hee hee

[K urgess]

Ah, Yes!
I also sent lots but I don't think anyone was listening.
Every one that landed on my desk was sent.
It was really painful trying to find someone that was remotely interested when you were in the middle of the south Pacific[=P]

PS I think the lurkers are about to ask what the hell we're talking about.

[sparkie2182]

yes...........

me 2


good innit?


im qrt for now.............va

[Ron Stringer]

Sent hundreds of the buggers. The 1800Z ones were the worst, as the R/O's watch ended at that time. The C/O would usually send the apprentice in with the 1800Z OBS message about 2 minutes before the end of the watch was due. Sometimes it took an hour or more to get the damned thing away to a relevant coast station.

The AMVER messages were much easier to deal with, being just a glorified TR and with a ready to hand network of USCG stations ready to take them. Plus there were only 2 or 3 of them to send on each passage; there was an OBS message every 6 hours, every day!

[trotterdotpom]

Kris, I was stunned by your first post on this thread! I sent OBS messages religiously - even in the middle of the Pacific you could knock them out to Hawaii. I was gratified to meet a couple of met. men who both told me how much they valued the OBS messages from ships at sea - especially in remote areas. Hope they weren't just pi**ing in my pocket. I don't think so as they both ate, slept and breathed weather.

Ships' Masters were often awarded brass barographs for their time served on observing ships - this always seemed a bit unfair to me as they played no part whatsoever in the operation. One Captain, with whom I'd sailed previously, asked me if the other ship was an "OBS" ship. I informed him that, like all the companys' ships, it was. He said: "Captain .... has just been awarded a barograph and I'm totting up my time on OBS ships to see when I'll get one." I thought: "Well, you can untot this one from now on!"

I'd say all the AMVER swag never got out of the office, well, not to the ships anyway. The only AMVER stuff I ever saw on a ship was the certificates that they stuck on the bridge bulkhead.

John T.

[K urgess]

The met men may have valued them, John T.
The problem was the operators especially when you had to send them through a naval or coastguard station. Although commrcial stations could be even worse.
Doubly especially when they landed on your desk at the end of a tiring watch. I always thought half an hour of constant trying to clear was good enough.
Very nearly got reported for over calling a few times so I did try.[=P]

Heard about the barometers but never saw one.

Kris

[JoK]

I think the lurkers are about to ask what the hell we're talking about.
Yes, what the hell????

[David Davies]

Is this the same procedure we had in the 50s. Selected ships sent the first 10 groups + , others sent the first 6+ every 6 hours on North Atlantic run. In those days the ship not the master got the barometer and also received the met office magazine some of which I've still got in the attic. The R/O would get the synoptic chart every other day at about 0900hrs an the poor old 2/0 would have to draw it up in his own time while waiting for the sun. 6 days shalt thou labour but on the 7th thou shalt work a b----y sight harder

[K urgess]

JoK,

Certain merchant ships were nominated as weather observation (OBS) ships and would take readings of wind speed/direction, temperature, pressure etc., every 6 hours and they would be transmitted to a participating radio station for use on weather maps. There were also weather ships stationed in the north Atlantic taking the messages and doing their own readings.

AMVER was the Atlantic Merchant Vessel ETA Reporting system or some such acronym. Every vessel heading for the US had to report. I'm not sure if you had to do it if you were just passing through their waters. If you didn't you could get into trouble. Even if you did they sent an aircraft to check you were who and where your said you were.

I always though that if you went on the bridge when you signed on and they'd got a recording barometer in the chartroom you were in for a workup. If it was a standard aneroid dial type you were safe. They started supplying the grey digital Air Ministry type in the later 70s.

Kris

[sparkie2182]

when i sailed as senior r/o.....i always got the junior to send the obs messages..........

the obs messages were mostly numerals.......begining with the ships lat/long.
followed by coded groups appertaining to the observed wx (weather).....and there could be a lot of them

the sending of numerical sequencies is not so easy for a novice r/o......as a glimple through google looking for morse code numerals will indicate.
but it was a good learning disciple, and good experience......as they were actually transmitting to someone on the other end.....unlike self training at college.

the u.s.c.g. were brilliant at taking obs from a ship within seconds of being called.......always telling the sending ship to omit the "preamble".....the details of ships name.....date.....time: and just get on with sending the message.

as mentioned by trotterdotpom........the met boys were always weather obsessed....and seemed to genuinely appreciate these messages being sent.

[gwzm]

I must have been lucky as I don't recall ever having much bother getting OBS messages sent, especially on the north Atlantic. I did feel sorry though for the folks on those north Atlantic weather ships sailing around in small circles for weeks on end taking weather observations and taking OBS from passing ships. It was bad enough for us to be on passage in rough weather but those guys just couldn't escape.

I did have the pleasure in, I think, 1965 of visiting the AMVER centre in New York. We were made very welcome and the US Coast Guard (?) staff were proud to show off their then state of the art computer systems and banks of Hollerith card reading equipment that they used.

All a very long time ago but all part of the experience of being a sparks in the halcyon days of the British Merchant Navy.

All the best,

gwzm/John

[Ron Stringer]

Kris,

The ships weren't nominated, the shipowners volunteered to take observations and report them. Kind of them to take on the extra work for us!

In the 1950s and 1960s, i.e. the days before satellites, the OBS messages were a valuable source of data for the Met Office. They gave out annual awards based on the number of OBS messages sent in to the Met Office at Bracknell. Clearly the staff there were most interested in reports from the Atlantic (after all, that is where the UK's weather was coming from). OBS messages sent to other administrations didn't seem to count towards the annual awards so the winners usually came from among those ships permanently on the UK/North America run. Manchester Liners appeared regularly in the photos of the award presentations at that time. Those ships running up to Churchill in Hudson Bay (Huntings?) were also frequent recipients of special awards.

There was a small team of Met Office ex-seafarers that visited the ships on a regular basis. I met one of them, Gordon Mackay, many years later when we both attended IMO meetings in London. They installed the equipment and checked it out on subsequent visits. There was a Stevenson Screen up on the monkey island containing the wet and dry bulb thermometers, a barograph, a mercury barometer suspended in gimbals and the 'bucket' with thermometer for checking the seawater temperature. Plus of course the all-important book of cloud photos and sea-state photos.

Most of the deck officers that I sailed with were very keen observers. I realised the value of the work (obviously I was well brain-washed by the visiting Met Office man) but my heart still used to sink when the message appeared just as I was going off watch for the night (or to go down to the saloon for my meal). I sailed with some 'observers' who delighted in insisting that the readings were taken exactly at the specified time, and then presenting the results to the radio room after I had gone off watch. Taken half an hour earlier wouldn't have invalidated the data but you couldn't explain that the those "Jobsworths". You get 'em in all walks of life.

In the hurricane season in the Gulf of Mexico and North Atlantic (June to December) there was special interest in observations and reports from ships in that area. You could be asked to report 3-hourly instead of at 6-hourly intervals, or even more frequently on occasions.

AMVER was also used to direct ships providing assistance to others. A plot of ships and their descriptions/capabilities was maintained at the AMVER HQ. This enabled the USCG to quickly identify help in the vicinity of a ship with problems e.g. medical emergencies. When I was on a ship with a doctor we had several such calls to assist or give medical advice to other vessels.

As you say, even though you were on the AMVER plot and reporting as required, it didn't stop the old 'Neptune' patrol aircraft buzzing you at frequent intervals. On one ship we were on passage from Charleston NC to the Panama Canal during the Cuban missile crisis. We were buzzed so often that we came to recognise the pilots as they flew alonside us so closely.

[K urgess]

Hadn't realised we were "volunteered", Ron.

Mind you it was over 30 years ago that I sent my last OBS message and, since it wan't my favourite occupation, (especially around the middle and south Atlantic), I've probably blanked out a lot of it.[=P]

The South American stations I seem to remember were exceedingly reluctant to accept them as were the West Africans.

I do remember the "yard of mercury" now you mention it.

Trouble with this is, as well as remembering the good stuff, sometimes stuff you'd rather forget floats to the surface.

I usually found that any OBS ship I was on sailed in strange waters whereas a trip on a VLCC it could have done with something to relieve the boredom. Unfortunately I've not noted which ships were and which weren't. I can guess though that the ones where I QSO'd 4YA to 4YE and lots of odd coast stations would be OBS ships.

I think 4YA etc., were the ocean weather stations. I bet they were glad when the weather satellites came on line.

Kris

[sparkie2182]

out of interest gugliemo............

do you remember dakar? and its "distinctive" modulation?

[K urgess]

6VA?........more of a buzz.
Much preferred GLD

[sparkie2182]

more of a glv man myself............

better pubs.......:)

[K urgess]

I was meaning the tone but as you say GLV was closer to pay off time.
I did post a story about GLV and the Irish Sea a while ago but I can't find it at the moment.

GKZ was even better 'cos it meant home cooking.

[Peter4447]

6VA...GLD...GLV...GKZ...

I won't ask - sounds far too complicated for this Lurkers little brain to comprehend at this late hour!

PYU Gentlemen

Peter4447(Jester)

[K urgess]

The call signs of radio coast stations round the world comprised 3 letters or a number and 2 letters.
The first letter was the country identifier, normally.
6 was Senegal and 6VA was the station at Dakar.
G was the UK so
GLD was Landsend
GLV was Anglesey
GKZ was Humber Radio
GCC was Cullercoates etc.

Feeling better now, Peter?

[John Briggs]

Used to hate doing the weather obs. We were a selected ship and on a regular run from India to South Africa. Got a prize from the Indian Met office though.

[Keltic Star]

It's fine for you sparkies sitting in a warm radio shack to complain about not getting the goodies. Think about the poor cadets who had to take the sea water temps in minus 20 deg. My only reward from AMVER or the owners for that matter was frostbite.:cool: :cool:

[mikeg]

Never minded sending OBS, they were 'made' for an automatic morse keyer :~)

Mike

[trotterdotpom]

AMVER = AUTOMATED MUTUAL ASSISTANCE VESSEL RESCUE SYSTEM. Initiated by the USCG, it was initially voluntary, but eventually became compulsory for vessels in the US sphere of influence. Ships were plotted from their Sailing Plans and Deviation Reports and those in the vicinity of ships in difficulties could be identified and alerted. Eventually, many other countries adopted similar procedures, including Australia with "AUSREP". No doubt many lives were saved due to the AMVER organisation. No doubt the CIA benefitted at times too, what the hell? Is it still going?

I too remember the warbling tones of Dakar Radio and fruitlessly calling the station. It turned out to be quite easy to contact them on HF as they actually listened on those frequencies at the times appointed in the Radio Signals books. Realistically, what was going to happen to any OBS message sent to a West African station? Whoever heard of the Dahomey Meteorological Bureau? I'd say folk around there relied on Ju-Ju rather than the 6 o'clock News. However, there was always good old Portisheadradio and the UK Met Office apparently received all reports with glee (even late ones). It was relatively easy to tack OBS messages on to other stuff (even though OBS messages actually had a higher priority than company messages - remember that?).

The awards to Captains were not poxy wooden barometers with a plastic dolphin stuck to them, they were precision brass barographs with a roll of paper and a stylus - worth a packet. They were awarded for consistent reporting and also lots of reports on meteorological and other marine phenomena which was eventually printed in the "Marine Observer" - what a fantastic record those books are. Quite annoying for the **** to receive an award when he didn't even know it was all going on!

Keltic Star you should have abandoned the North Pole and headed south! I remember chucking that line into the water to get the sea temperature - it was a novelty in the tropics - but eventually they just used to get the sea temp from the engine room. I recall once setting up a 3rd Engineer - the 3rd Mate and I were talking about the Scotch we were going to get for doing the weather observations and remarked on how it was only for us, not the Engineers. "But we give them the sea temperature!" came the plaitiff cry.

What's the weather like where you are, Judith?

John T.

[hawkey01]

Kris et all,

We used to take hundreds of OBS per day at GKA. These were priority and ships offering them were taken as the first RO became avaialble. This however did not mean - and many tried - that you could then tell us you had other traffic, having jumped the queue. We had a dedicate telex circuit direct to the Met office. This gave them much needed data. The weather ships 4YA/B and I believe even C/D had their own links to the Met office. In later times we had other weather ships - names escape me at present - which we would pole at specific times and on set frequencies via radio telex direct to the Met office. One which comes to mind was the Polar Stern. I know that in some areas of the world they were difficult to clear but I can think of only a few occassions when I used the CQ route. We were also (GKA) a dedicated AMVER reporting station but eventually finances came into play and we ceased to offer the service.

Hawkey01(==D)

[K urgess]

I must stir the grey matter more often.
I can't remember ever sending an OBS to Portishead. Probably because I was never told you could! Mostly I was a lazy tyke and considered OBS a pain in the proverbial.

I knew AMVER stood for something like that. Best guesses by me are usually way off the mark.[=P]

That was something else I can't remember sending to GKL. Sent TRs to coast stations on M/F in passing through their area but AMVERs only to US if going that way. 'Course it is a long time ago and one's mind tends to blank out things it considers unimportant without consulting one.

I only ever knew the weather ships by their callsigns and I seem to have contacted Alpha through to Echo but can't find any record of a Foxtrot.
I've got Charlie, Delta and Echo in a line running northeast from VRT (Bermuda) with Bravo stuck out in the middle on what would be a great circle course from Newfoundland to Liverpool. Can't find Alpha at the moment.

Kris

[hawkey01]

Kris,

I actually had one mad moment when I thought I might apply to the met office for their radio side. It did not last long when I thought of being out on one of the wx ships. Saw some pictures one time with them streaming sea anchors - if that is the term and riding the waves. Feel sick thinking about it!.

Neville - Hawkey01(POP)

[K urgess]

Having experienced a few North Atlantic blows they would've had to drag me aboard screaming and kicking, Neville.

The idea of sitting around waiting for the weather to come to you instead of going to the weather didn't and doesn't appeal.

Did spend a couple/three days going backwards in that general vicinity once.
That makes me feel ill remembering.[=P]

Sea anchors seems about right. Seem to remember something about big canvas/ sail cloth bags in the shape of cones.

Kris

[sparkie2182]

did anyone use amsterdam island to send an obs?

anyone who didnt may like to take time to use google to locate it.

there was an 8 hour radio watch on m.f. morse (few hundred miles range only)

and the obs sent there were particularly prized for obvious reasons, whith respect to its location.

i always spared a thought for the operator there.

[K urgess]

Passed that way a few times but don't appear to have QSO'd.
Do you remember the call sign and was it one of Cable Wireless's stations?

Definitely a bit of a lonely post.

[sparkie2182]

sorry marconi........

cant find the c/s.......but ill keep looking.
the amateur radio people prize amsterdam island most highly , of course, in the qsl card collection stakes.
apparantly, there is someone on dx all year round, on an amateur basis.there is
some connection with environmental studies.....ecology etc: as the location is ideal to monitor variations in environmental parameters.....and keen ham dx'ers volunteer to locate themselves there.

must be bloody keen...............

[M29]

has anyone still got the met office atlas he was given for assiduously sending in obs messages?

and has anyone got a blue and white amver pennant? liberated from a ship sent for scrap perhaps?


its all history now, this stuff

Hi Sparkie 2182 and everyone else on this thread.
I got a nice Atlas (which I still have) and funny thing is, the 2nd mate guaranteed me I'd get one. After several years of sending OBs with no thank's, I joined a ship with a keen 3/O and 2/O who decided we would set out to get prizes. This meant extra efforts, such as photographing birds that landed on board, estimating the glides of flying fish. etc. The data was always prepared on time and I would have the TX tuned up ready. As you ex RO's know, the OBS times co-incided with the BBC world news on the even hour. On one occasion, the old man ordered me to stop sending as he was trying to hear the news, this lead to an entry in the OBS log by the 3/O that read "OBS not sent, R/O in a huff". It upsets me now to think the om got a barometer!
One advantage of being an OBS ship was that when trading with Japan as we did a lot, you would get a priority turn number with JCS for your QTC's if you also had an OBS to send.
I think you were more likely to get a prize, if you were reporting from some of the more obscure bits of the world, were reporting was "thin" than if you were reporting from say, the north Atlantic were there were many reporting ships.
I remember the AMVER scheme very well. Some cinics on our ships thought it was a method of the CIA knowing the positon of all foriegn ships during that cold war period!

Best wishes
Alan

[K urgess]

Attached just found in the Marconi Mariner, Marconi Marine house magazine, for May/June, 1963.