NAVAL SHIPS becoming TARGETS or REEF,

yorky jim
13th October 2007, 12:20
From the time after WW11,when was the first test done on a ship,as a target,??.......after the surrender of the U.Boats in Ireland ,many were used as practice targets ..would that have been the start,?? i,e they had so many to sink.
And now ,uptodate which was the very last one ??.
and as we get a smaller navy, will there be less weapon test,s,....there,s heaps of ships laid up in the U.S.NAVY.but i expected they would be no good as they would open up like a tin of peas,you need some thing very solid to hit .

P.S i have been amazed how many of you have looked at WHOOP,S H.M.S LEANDER in my gallery.

Then we had the SCYLLA sunk as a reef,,but before then ,more had been sunk around australia[warmer waters ]
Can any one say ,"which was the first as a reef "... ?

JIM

Stevo
13th October 2007, 21:04
The sinking of warships had been practice before WW2, the American Billy Mitchell pushed through the importance of aircraft at sea by successfully bombing and sinking the former German dreadnaught Osterfriesland in the 1920s (excuse the spelling!) The RN sank the former German battleship Baden off the Isle of Wight a few years after WW1 as well.

After WW2 it was neccessary to dispose of the surplus German U boats but the first real mass sinking of ships as targets must surely be the Bikini Atoll Atom bomb tests in 1946? Plenty of big name ships met their watery end including the Prinz Eugen, Nagato and the Saratoga.

Post war the RN sank mainly frigate sized vessels from the late 1960s onwards, such as several Type 15 conversions and a few Type 14s. Probably the biggest ship to be sunk as a target by the RN post war is the County class destroyer Devonshire in 1984 which was hit by a Sea Eagle missle followed by a torpedo. The smallest include the Ton class Lewiston and the boom defence vessel Laymoor.

Of late, I believe the Batch 2 Type 22s Boxer and Brave were the last targets a few years back although it is asumed one of the currently laid up Type
42s in Portsmouth is being prepared as a target for next year.

yorky jim
14th October 2007, 10:48
STEVE,
I have been doing a spot of surfing through the history of thous u.boats you mention ,and i found a article saying they were looking into resurfacing one of the boats ,and getting it on show,......well if it was one that was used as a target ,and had little damage,it woul look quite authentic.
I have only recently spotted a pic of a couple of ships that were laid ,along side ,i gather they must be the nexted LOT.

Stevo
15th October 2007, 18:59
Jim

I would certainly be interested to hear more about the salvage of a U boat, can you give us any further details or a thread to explore?

Just as a thought though, if someone wants a U boat, why don't they put in a bid for the one on the Mersey, I've heard they intend cutting it into sections to move her.

Santos
15th October 2007, 19:17
Read something a couple of days ago about a diver drowning whilst surveying one of the subs they were thinking of raising. Cant remember now where I read it. Could have been one of the BBC Newcaster threads, will try and remember.

Chris.

PS Just found it on SN Newscaster http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7025213.stm

Santos
15th October 2007, 20:09
Dont know if anyone has seen this site but you can see what it looks like inside U534 today as she lies in Birkenhead awaiting being cut up.

http://www.level-two.co.uk/u534.php

Chris.

yorky jim
16th October 2007, 14:23
SANTOS,
That was brilliant site ,many thanks,......
at this very moment i am into reading all about the ATLANTIC WAR and of the many U.BOATS that took part.
And seeing in side ,i dont know which was worse ,freezing cold weather, or cramed up a boat like that.

JIM

Santos
16th October 2007, 20:52
Jim,

Glad you liked the site. Yes must have been very grim for all submariners in those days, very brave men, no matter what nationality, terrible way to die trapped in a sunken submarine and they still manned them knowing what might happen.

Chris.

Pat McCardle
16th October 2007, 22:03
Great stuff, Chris. Brave men one & all. I wonder if there were any boats sunk by 'friendly fire' when trying to make their way home, passing through the different sectors & getting the codes wrong?

Santos
17th October 2007, 15:52
Yes Pat I bet there was, as you say brave men one and all, very brave.

Chris

yorky jim
17th October 2007, 17:00
And when they went off to the ATLANTIC ,these subs would be about ,spanking brand new,....so they thought they were the creme de creme of the high sea,s

JIM

yorky jim
18th October 2007, 21:05
I have come across this pic of ,FLAMBOROUGH HEAD,
i believe she was one of our,s being a repair ship........looking worst for wear here,..going down to be a REEF.

Stevo
21st October 2007, 21:13
An interesting picture appears in this month's addition of Ship's Monthly (inside back page) of HMS Lowestoft with her back broken and rolling over following her being torpedoed as a target by HMS Conqueror.

It was this sinking and the subsequent images of the ship appearing in the national press which resulted in the practice of RN ships being sunk without their names or pennant numbers following pleas from ex ship mates saddened at the loss of their former vessel being made so public.

boulton
22nd October 2007, 13:08
Dont know if anyone has seen this site but you can see what it looks like inside U534 today as she lies in Birkenhead awaiting being cut up.

http://www.level-two.co.uk/u534.php

Chris.

My goodness !! I have trouble keeping the family car servicable, and I am amazed at those who restore old vehicles - but this looks an impossible task.

Just a thought - have the Germans not shown any interest in her ?

boulton
22nd October 2007, 15:54
From a couple of threads I’ve started “Alternate (civilian) use for LSL”, and “Who designed the Type 42”, it will be obvious that I have been indulging an interest in the future use of (to be) de-commissioned RN/RFA ships - ably assisted and encouraged by the replies I have gratefully received.

Following my discussions with the disposal folk earlier this summer, I would be very surprised if any RN/RFA ship were to be sunk ever again, for any purpose, by any means.

After LSL Sir Geriant L3027 was sold to private interests - only to be run up an Indian beach (can’t find the link I wanted, but try the following: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETFXpkfFhCs>) to be scrapped for a quick profit - Defence Ministers are now very aware of their new-age, environmental, anti-pollution, responsibilities.

Even if the oils and other liquid contaminants (never mind the all-pervasive asbestos), can be removed from de-commissioned RN/RFA ships, it is suggested that a policy of scrap (re-cycling) at responsible (European yards/western facilities) would be the preferred option for the MoD - particularly with the current world price levels of metals.

The realisation by our Ministers of their new-age, environmental, anti-pollution, responsibilities, might be a contributory factor in the MoD moving towards the idea of through-life leasing agreements for such as the new River class Offshore Patrol Vessels - which will obviously remain the responsibility, problem, liability, of Vosper Thornycroft when the ships eventually have to be disposed of.

boulton
31st October 2007, 17:05
Defence Ministers are now very aware of their new-age, environmental, anti-pollution, responsibilities.

Even if the oils and other liquid contaminants (never mind the all-pervasive asbestos), can be removed from de-commissioned RN/RFA ships, it is suggested that a policy of scrap (re-cycling) at responsible (European yards/western facilities) would be the preferred option for the MoD.



Confirmation of the government's attitude is confirmed in a thread started on 31 October 2007 "HMS Fearless to go to the breaker's yard".

snappel
10th December 2007, 11:26
Dont know if anyone has seen this site but you can see what it looks like inside U534 today as she lies in Birkenhead awaiting being cut up.

http://www.level-two.co.uk/u534.php

Chris.
Thankfully U-534 is not going for scrap, but it's still a shame she's being cut into sections. The cost to move it in one bit is apparently 'too big' for new owners Merseytravel. I'm pretty sure they were only sold the vessel because the harbour board wanted rid of it from the quayside.

The real tragedy is that it was never bought by the local authorities and taken over to Canning Dock. Imagine the U-boat alongisde HMS Wimbrel! Of course, the Historic Warships Museum should never have been forced into closure either. Sometimes it's as if 'designer apartments' are all anybody cares about.

robandbarbara
10th December 2007, 12:46
Great stuff, Chris. Brave men one & all. I wonder if there were any boats sunk by 'friendly fire' when trying to make their way home, passing through the different sectors & getting the codes wrong?

I think that HMS Oxley was the first British submarine lost in WW2.
She was rammed in error by HM Submarine Triton off Norway on 19/09/1939.
It appears that the Triton did not know that another British was in that section of the North Sea and thought the the Oxley was a German submarine.

Three other submarines were known to have been lost by 'friendly' action. , being
H.M.S ..P514.. Umpire..Unbeaton..
Rob

yorky jim
12th December 2007, 18:39
What a land mark ,that the sub u.534 .
If they completed the apartment's,they could use her a postcode.....where ever you were ,.....
it would be most appropriate for it to be laid along side WIMBREL,.(Thumb)

jim