Mersey Mammoth

Fairfield
14th April 2005, 14:32
Floating crane photographed in Glasgow in November 1987 when she arrived to position the span of a swing bridge across the Clyde between the former Stobcross and Plantation Quays in connection with the Garden Festival to be held the following year in the former Princes Dock.
The bridge is still extant and known as Bell/s Bridge having been sponsored by the whisky firm.It regularly opened for WAVERLEY but now that she has moved downriver of it will not be required so much now to operate.
Tug is Clyde Shipping/s FLYING FULMAR.

cockerhoop
15th April 2005, 07:58
she maid several trips to Barrow during the Trident SSBN project

tell
16th April 2005, 00:21
anyone know the details of the original Mammoth? I believe it was Russian built and taken over after the first ww Tell

Santos
19th April 2005, 21:07
Hi Tell,

I thought you might like to see a picture of the original Mammoth. She was just called that, no Mersey prefix. She was not self propelled and had to be towed everywhere she went. The funnels you see were for the boilers which supplied the steam used to drive the crane mechanism.

I heard that she was taken as a ' spoil of war ' from Germany at the end of the 1st World War. I have not been able to find out anything else about her at all. Must be slipping, as I normally manage to find out something.

Anyway hope you like the picture.

Santos.

Ron B Manderson
19th April 2005, 21:13
You are correct on where she came from Santos
I was told she was just built in 1913/ 17 for Bremen or hamburg.
And taken over as war prize.
I have a feeling thats she was built in britain and may be cammel lairds ?????
But never arrived in Germany
Is she still on the go ???


Ron

Santos
19th April 2005, 21:33
Hi Ron,

No she is not still going and was scrapped sometime in the eighties I believe, the present Mersey Mammoth dates from 1986.

Santos.

tell
21st April 2005, 00:35
Santos thanks for the pic, I have known the mammoth for many years, i do believe she had some form of self propulsion but was not powerful enough to navigate outside the docks, did you ever hear of a chap diving off the top of her in the Gladstone dock sometime in the 40s? Tell

Santos
21st April 2005, 19:16
No Tell, I never heard of that happening. I did not know of the self propulsion as I only ever saw her being towed everywhere. I am trying to find out more about her and will let you know if I succede.

Santos.

Santos
21st April 2005, 21:24
Hi Tell,

I have just found out the following info on the original Mammoth :-

Mammoth Built 1920 A.F. Smulders, Shieldam, Holland.

I must dig further as I was told that she was taken as a spoil of World War 1, it must have been World War 2, I will dig deeper. Its got me going now to find the full facts.

Santos.

tell
21st April 2005, 21:28
I would be very grateful for your help Santos, btw did you know I was one of the driftwood gang in L'pool docks before the water witch came on the scene

Santos
21st April 2005, 21:41
Hi Tell,

What a job you had, dirty and very hard I bet, I saw the muck that was in the docks and it wasnt a pretty sight, I take my hat off to you, you did a very valuable job.

I have further found out that Mammoth was 1542 Gross tonnage and, wait for it, twin screw, I apologise for the duff info I passed re it being non-self propelled. I need to clarify some more info I have found out, which states her movements were powered by ' electric motors ' , which movements, props or crane ?, I will try and find out.

Also she does not appear in Lloyds List as part of Mersey Docks and Harbour Board until after the end of World War 2, so she must have been taken as a spoil of war then.

Santos.

tell
21st April 2005, 21:45
I still think Russia had a part in her history, maybe she was built for there and they defaulted on payment and mdhb took it over

Santos
21st April 2005, 21:47
Tell,

Please see my last paragraph, I have just edited on my last post Santos.

tell
21st April 2005, 21:49
Done! ta , Tell

Santos
8th October 2006, 21:34
I have just found out the following with reference to the original Mammoth floating crane belonging to Mersey Docks and Harbour Board.

She was built by A.F. Smulders, Schiedam, Holland, originally for the Russian Tsarist Government but the 1917 revolution caused the sale to fail and she was sold to the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board and arrived in Liverpool on 17th September 1920. ( your thoughts were correct Tell )

Her Jib was 197 feet long and her hull 154 feet long. The crane was operated by electricity which was generated by two on board triple expansion steam engines.

During WW2 she was damaged three times by air raids, the third one on 12/13th March 1941 sinking her at her berth in the West Float Birkenhead. It was said that Winston Churchill himself ordered her immediate salvage as her work was vital to keeping the port of Liverpool open and working towards the war effort. It took 17 months before she was back in service as the crane jib had to be dismantled and then reassembled. Working plans of her had been destroyed in an air raid which made her salvage and repair more complicated.

She was sold to Sweden in 1986, leaving Liverpool in August of that year on board a barge which was towed to Oxelosund by the tug Fairplay IX. She was used by Sweden until 1998 when she was scrapped.

She was replaced by the current Mersey Mammoth.


Chris.

danube4
9th October 2006, 19:33
Hi, Tell, Santos.
Mammoth could lift 200 tons, and rotate 360 degrees with load, and carry load on deck. In still water, such as docks she could self propel at 5 to 6 knots.
Have you seen this site:- www.merseysideviews.com
plenty pics. Sold and renamed Baltic Mammoth.

Pic , Placing 150 ton foot bridges to New Brighton Landing Stage.



Barney.

Santos
10th October 2006, 18:48
Hi Barney,

Thanks for the link, I did know about but it could be of use to others as well.

I saw a lot of the Mammoth and was on a ship in Liverpool when she lifted a bridge onto our foredeck for delivery to Djbouti. I also saw her replace one of the New Brighton Ferry bridges which had been displaced by a storm in the 1950s.

Chris.

eyrebrush
11th October 2006, 00:24
Hi, Tell, Santos.
Mammoth could lift 200 tons, and rotate 360 degrees with load, and carry load on deck. In still water, such as docks she could self propel at 5 to 6 knots.
Have you seen this site:- www.merseysideviews.com
plenty pics. Sold and renamed Baltic Mammoth.

Pic , Placing 150 ton foot bridges to New Brighton Landing Stage.



Barney.


I'm a new member here. I'm finding it VERY difficult to understand how this site works! (lol). I'm floundering somewhat here. I'm very interested in ships and maritime affairs generally, but most particularly in the Irish sea and the river Mersey. I would like to give an update of the old Mammoth floating crane! I'm in the process of building a model of her! I started it about four years ago, but was about to abandon it through lack of information as to her structure. I was working from photographs - I have hundreds of them - but they did not give me the information I needed. I've needed the PLANS! I have at last tracked them down! ...... through a couple of friends. One of these friends lives in Stockholm, Sweden. The Mammoth is there, now, (renamed Baltic Mammoth). She has NOT been scrapped! In fact she has many years of working life ahead of her! She moved from Oxelosund to Stockholm and is now owned by A B CONTRACTOR. She has been fitted out with new propulsion engines, and facilities for diving opperations! She has a whole new set of plans, but the present owners wanted to find a good home for all the 'old' ones; they were taking up space on board! Cutting a long story short, through my friend living in Stockholm, I now have ALL the oringinal plans here in my workshop!!!!! I can't believe it. When I have sorted out all the information from them for my (hopefully) fully operational working scale model they will be donated to the Liverpool Maritime Museum.(==D)

Santos
11th October 2006, 19:00
Thats great news Eyebrush, she is still around, I am delighted. Its also nice to hear she has a future too. I got the info of her scrapping from a local magazine, I am very glad to know they were wrong.I will inform them of her present whereabouts and that she still has a future.

Thank you for your info on Mammouth and for sharing it with us and good luck with your model, perhaps when you finish it you could post a photo of it on this site, I for one would like to see it.

Chris. (Thumb)

makko
11th October 2006, 19:56
But what news of the other , smaller cranes. Fender and Birket? Named after the borders of Leasowe!

eyrebrush
11th October 2006, 20:24
I have no knowledge as to the fate of the other four floating cranes that where owned by the MDHB, I'm afraid. I would like to know myself. Strangely, though, amongst the 30 kilos of plans that I've received of the Mammoth there were two 'strangers'! ....... One was of the SAMSON, and other of the BIRKETT!

Ronnie.

makko
11th October 2006, 20:42
Aha! Samson, of course! I'd forgotten that one. My dad was involved with re-engining one of the cranes - Mammoth I think. Possibly baby Wartsila generating sets? I shall have to ask him. Off to Veracruz tomorrow and Friday. Shall see what photos I can glean!

Regards,

Dave

eyrebrush
11th October 2006, 20:54
Lol! It will probably take a few years to complete this model! It's sooooo complicated! I'm still trying to come to terms with all these plans! How I WISH I had a workshop at least three times as big! I don't have a bench big enough to roll them out properly. I'm building the actual crane arm and tower all in brass! Much of the tower is erected, and the hull is built, and it has been tested on the water at New Brighton model boating lake. The electrics are in place, and she's VERY easy to move around.
I can show some pics of it right now. Hummmm ..... I'm just wondering how to upload them here! I HOPE I get this right! I've also got some pics that my friend emailed me from Stockholm of the Baltic Mammoth - as she is now! Hope you like them. Hummmm .... hope this works!
Ronnie.

A-hum! PS: I've just discovered I can't just simply send a JPG to you. I've got to create an URL! I have a web site of my own, displaying my drawings and paintings, all written in html. I'll have to create an html file of these pictures, and insert them into my web space. This will take me an hour or so. I'll try to send it later this evening.

Santos
11th October 2006, 21:03
Samson was sold to Malta in 1987. Whilst under tow to Malta she got caught in a storm in the Irish Sea, the tow broke and she drifted ashore onto rocks on the Waterford coast. Ram Head near Ardmore Beach to be exact, where she still remains today I believe.

Photo of wreck at http://www.irishwrecksonline.net/details/Samson683-ImagePage.htm

Kind regards

Chris.

makko
11th October 2006, 22:30
Thanks for that Santos.

You don't really appreciate things until they are gone! Remember crossing to Birkenhead, bridges up, moving the cranes around etc. I suppose its indicative of a lot of the things - Samson with his locks shorn, wasting away on the Irish coast...............

Rgds.

Dave

eyrebrush
12th October 2006, 12:22
Well, it took me a LOT longer to prepare these pictures for posting to my webspace! Sorry about that. Here are the pictures I promised you of the Mammoth.
http://www.eyrebrush.free-online.co.uk/Photos/Mammoth%20pics/

eyrebrush
12th October 2006, 12:47
Thanks, Dave. I look forward to seeing those pictures. Incidentally .... the five floating cranes that the MDHB had in those days were .... Mammoth, Samson, Fender, Titan and Atlas.
Ronnie.

Santos
12th October 2006, 21:53
Ronnie,

Brilliant pics thank you very much for sharing them. Love to see your model when its finished. I have E mailed the Magazine, and told them of their mistake and that she is still OK and thriving. No reply as yet.

kind regards

Chris.

danube4
12th October 2006, 22:02
Hi, Ronnie. Welcome aboard. Many thanks for sharing these great pics of the Mammoth with us. I wish you luck with the building of her. Its great to know she is still working after all these years, and not been scrapped. I often wandered what happend to the cranes, and big dredgers. I worked for
M.D.& H.B. Nov 1952-Aug 1954. I was o.s on tug Assistant. I was also on the Dredgers Leviathan, and Hoyle. Did a couple of weeks relief, I think it was on Atlas or Hercules. I also was on the Anita Lamey tug . I remember towing the Mammoth between Gladstone and Birkenhead docks a few times. I loved working on the Mersey. Thanks for bringing these happy memories back.

Titans lift was 25 ton, Samson 30 ton, Hercules 50 ton, Atlas 100 ton.

Mammoth 200 ton. I dont remember Birket or Fender.?

Have a look at Biggest Dredger in the World, in Dredgers.

All the best. Barney.

Coastie
13th October 2006, 02:24
Brilliant pictures, Ronnie, thankyou for sharing them.

eyrebrush
13th October 2006, 22:08
Hi, Ronnie. Welcome aboard. Many thanks for sharing these great pics of the Mammoth with us. I wish you luck with the building of her. Its great to know she is still working after all these years, and not been scrapped. I often wandered what happend to the cranes, and big dredgers. I worked for
M.D.& H.B. Nov 1952-Aug 1954. I was o.s on tug Assistant. I was also on the Dredgers Leviathan, and Hoyle. Did a couple of weeks relief, I think it was on Atlas or Hercules. I also was on the Anita Lamey tug . I remember towing the Mammoth between Gladstone and Birkenhead docks a few times. I loved working on the Mersey. Thanks for bringing these happy memories back.

Titans lift was 25 ton, Samson 30 ton, Hercules 50 ton, Atlas 100 ton.

Mammoth 200 ton. I dont remember Birket or Fender.?

Have a look at Biggest Dredger in the World, in Dredgers.

All the best. Barney.

Hi, Barney. Nice to meet you. Interesting to hear that you worked on the Mersey. In those days I was just finishing at school, and began the happiest years of my life as a student at the Laird School of Art! I did a lot of sketching around the Mersey in those years, and this is how I got to know many of the vessels that worked around that area. I got to know many of the folk who worked on the tugs, etc. I have loads of photographs of the tugs, including many of Lamey. I'll dig some out for you, if you like. There may well be the odd one of Anita. I would have to scan them into the computer. However, I have not learnt, as yet, how to upload pictures direct to this site -or - for that matter - how to view pictures that others send. Can you help me?
Ronnie.

Coastie
13th October 2006, 22:19
Hi Ronnie.

Go to "Gallery" and click on "upload photo" at top of page. follow the instructions from there. If I can do it, ANYONE can!

danube4
15th October 2006, 00:41
Hi Ronnie, Did you get my pm today.
Barney.

eyrebrush
15th October 2006, 06:15
Hi, Barney. Yes. Thank you for your directions. I found your pictures. Quite a collection! If I were to peruse the photograhs of ALL the members it would take me a month of Sundays! lol. This site is sooooooo vast! It's a bit like a family tree ...... SO many branches and roots! I'm still treading water with it. It's all these different threads! For instance .... looking at your pictures I saw one of the I O M steamers, Mona's Queen 1V of 1946. If I were to offer any information on this or any other I O M boats would I be able to include it in this thread obout the Mammoth, or would I have to open a new 'thread'? I have three or four good pictures of Mona's Isle 1V ..... and litterally hundreds of all the Isle of man boats. I've built a scale working model of the Mona's Isle - 7' 2". (I've also built the woodside ferry, Thurstaston, in the same scale). I saw your picture of Anita Lamey. Wonderful! I haven't had time yet to sort out all the ones I have in my own collection. I was out all day yesterday. They're all sorted into different boxes. The 'tugs' box has LOADS in it! LOL! I'll go through the 'general ships and shipping' box, but I don't THINK I have any of sand hoppers. I do have one of Leviathon.
I can't remember now how I came across this site. I think someone gave me the URL to this 'Mammoth' thread while talking about my model. It was through reading all the posts about it, that I felt I had to contibute, and join the group. However, having found the 'home page', as it were, of this group, I CANNOT find the thread concerning the Mammoth from there! This list of threads is a bit of a minefield for me at the moment. LOL. It's a good job I had put this Mammoth thread into my 'Favorites' list!
Ronnie.

jaigee
15th October 2006, 11:55
"Today, 06:15 "
"Last edited by eyrebrush : Today at 06:25."

Early riser then Ronnie!

P.S. Don't forget to post prior notice of any 'test' launchings at New Brighton.

danube4
15th October 2006, 19:52
Hi Ron, Click gallery, just keep scrolling down untill you come to Special Purpose Vessels you will see the mammoth thread. I will send another pm.
All the best,
Barney.

eyrebrush
16th October 2006, 17:02
Sorry, Barney. Just tried to upload the pictures of your Lamey tugs - including the 'Anita' ..... ran into a loads of trouble. Entered more than six pictures .... all but one of Anita got deleted. I've so many pictures I want to show you - and the group - but I'm finding this procedure of offering six pictures at I time in any one day extemely frustrating - when I'm in full flow! (lol).
Question: Can one delete a picture from one's album? I only ask this because I would like to replace one with one of better quality. Many of these old pictures that I printed originally, myself, from an bag full of old negatives that was given to me by a friend, and that were taken on and around the river Mersey by people who have discarded them, or who have passed away, and they are very dusty and scratched. I can't do anything with the negatives themselves, but I CAN do lots with the prints in the way of elliminating the scratches and bits of dust! I've done this with great success with old family pictures. (a very time consuming process with many of them!). This is the case with one of the pictures that I've shown here - Anita Lamey 03.
I have SO many pictures here in my collection that I would like to share, because there could be some that might mean a great deal to some people, .... I really don't know.
Ronnie.

FLYERS
1st December 2006, 21:46
Just come in on this thread and it is great to hear that the old Mammoth is still going strong.

Prior to her leaving Liverpool in the 80's, I along with a number of other ATCL staff climbed the jib for a once in a lifetime experience. What a view from the top.

Speaking of the other floating cranes of the Mersey, the birkett was towed away from Jerk the Bed (Birkenhead) by I think it ws the Irishman from West Float in the late 70's. We were escort tug down to the Bar and it was quite bumpy on the way down river. Sorry but don't know where she ended up.

One of the other smaller cranes was cut down and used as a flat top for a period of time.

Gavin-Phillips
30th January 2007, 18:49
A F Smulders also built a floating crane outwardly at least, very similar to the Mammoth (which is actually how I found this site), called these days the Titan III. It began life back in 1922, then called the Titan II, being sought by England after the original Titan crane capsized and sank in the mouth of the Tyne in late 1921 during a storm. Originally it was mounted on a dumb barge and the upper works were steam powered, but in 1979 it was transferred to a somewhat self propelled barge built by the former shipyard company Swan Hunters, the original steam propulsion and power generating units were removed and replaced with diesel engines. The new barge also has a load bearing capacity of 127 gross tons.

I first caught sight of this fantastic structure in june last year during a sight-seeing trip down the river Tyne and it has fascinated me ever since. The paint job is quite striking! The commentator on the boat trip is an ex-tugboat pilot who spoke about having to pull the crane up and down-river alot, and I'm not sure if those were fond memories!

Sadly in about 3months time; it will no longer be here; as it and all of the heavy equipment formerly owned by Swan Hunters is to be sold off (Cloud) There are other cranes of course which I have a high level of interest in (including a 250ton capacity giant cantilever crane), but this one is something more special!

For anyones attention, in case no one else has seen this vintage floating behemoth, here is one of the pictures I took of it the last time I saw it which was in November 2006.

If anyone can tell me more about this crane, or indeed the original Titan; or even more about the company who built it, I would very greatly appreciate it!

Coastie
30th January 2007, 19:10
I may be well off the mark here, (So what's new?) but didn't this one come to the UK from Germany as a war trophy? (Or am I thinking of the original Mersey Mammoth?)

Gavin-Phillips
30th January 2007, 19:15
I may be well off the mark here, (So what's new?) but didn't this one come to the UK from Germany as a war trophy? (Or am I thinking of the original Mersey Mammoth?)

Not as far as I am aware. A F Smulders had already built the Titan II, and England requested it because they had just lost the Titan crane during a storm. The original Titan crane was actually a crane destined to work in Russian rivers, but WW1 intervened and it remained in England where it was put to use here.

Coastie
30th January 2007, 19:26
Thanks Gavin. As I said, way off the mark!

Gavin-Phillips
30th January 2007, 19:51
No worries at all, glad I can help. :)

I'm sure I've read somewhere that a Mammoth floating crane (was there more than one?) was used in the construction of the piers up at Tynemouth, at least the foundations of them. The top levels around easily be built using block-setting cranes.

The Mammoth is a fantastic piece of machinery and it really makes me smile to see that its still with us, and hopefully still will be for many years to come!

Keith Adams
31st January 2007, 00:58
Great Thread! Always facinated with the Mammoth in Birkenhead Docks and the River Mersey during the War... never dreamt I would be on a ship loading
Locomotive and rail cars directly from her in Gladston Dock, Liverpool. In
answer to the man diving from her... we talked about that as kids in Poulton School, and recall she was partly sunk at the time and the argument was over whether the guy dove or jumped, said to have been a Chinese crew member of a Blue Flu boat... did it for a bet. Thanks for detailed history. I will attempt to post a couple of pics in Cargo Ship Gallery. Snowy.

Lars
31st January 2007, 10:51
http://bild.oxelosund.se/ppinfo.php?ID=000093
http://bild.oxelosund.se/ppinfo.php?ID=003492 (http://bild.oxelosund.se/ppinfo.php?ID=000093)
Baltic Mammoth, built 1920 as Mammoth by A F Smulders in Schiedam, was bought from Mersey Docks & Harbour Co in Liverpool in August 1986 for 157.500 pounds by Oxelösunds Hamn AB (Björn Engström) http://www.oxhamn.se/ Oxelösund, Sweden. She was rebuilt in Oskarshamn to handle discharging equipment Cavalletto system and the steam engines were replaced by diesels. She was used for a few years to lift on and off the Cavaletto equipment on ships to large to berth the pier in Oxelösund until the rock that hindered was blasted away. Sold 1993 to Nordströms Lyft & Sjötransporter AB Örnsköldsvik, Sweden. A small bulk carrier, Stenjohan, was used as a barge between the ships and the pier.
http://bild.oxelosund.se/ppinfo.php?ID=010903
During her time in Oxelösund we sometimes used her for training the firefighters. Searching for victims in a complicated invironment in her old engine room and other spaces below and rescuing people from high places. I came to know her quite well those years and thought it was a great pity her original engines were replaced. But old Mammoth is till alive and kicking!
http://www.tugboatlars.se/Diverse.htm

"Stenjohan" was built 1964 by Bartram & Sons Ltd in Sunderland under the name Chelwood for Wm France Fenwick & Co Ltd i London.
Sold 1974 to Houlder Brothers & Co Ltd i London and renamedl Oswestry Grange.
Sold 1985 via Furness Withy in London to Oxelösunds Hamn AB for 310 000 $US. Renamed Stenjohan and classed as a barge for cavalletto system.
Sold 1989 to Lucky Marine Enterprises SA, Liberia, for $US 230 000.
Sold same year to Dido Shipping, Kingston. After restored in Gdynia, Poland, in trade 1989 as Stenjohan, home port Saint Vincent.
Sold to Tarbin Maritime Ltd i Limassol and renamed Gina T, home port San Lorenzo.
Sold 1995 till Tamara Shipping Ltd, Charlestown. Renamed June 1995 StenJohan, August Gina T.
/Lars

Waterways
7th February 2007, 13:25
1950 at Birkenhead Docks:
http://www.20thcenturyimages.co.uk/trolleyed/images/products/335.JPG

1952 loading a bus:
http://www.20thcenturyimages.co.uk/trolleyed/images/products/067.JPG

1950. Mammoth:
http://www.20thcenturyimages.co.uk/trolleyed/images/products/699.JPG

1951 Titan, Birkenhead Docks
http://www.20thcenturyimages.co.uk/trolleyed/images/products/1100.JPG

Gavin-Phillips
7th February 2007, 16:53
More great pictures of the Mammoth at work! (Thumb)

The Titan picture is obviously not any relation to the Titan III we still have on the Tyne, although the name Titan has been used across the construction, mining, demolition & marine industries for many years (and probably forestry too, I wouldn't be suprised).

Notice the picture of the Mammoth lifting the bus, it would be nice to be able to get that close to such operations these days, although for safety-sake I probably wouldn't in any case...

Waterways
7th February 2007, 21:34
1971 The 87 ton Crane, Cavendish Quay, East Float, Birkenhead,
http://www.20thcenturyimages.co.uk/trolleyed/images/products/460.JPG

Titan entering East Float Birkenhead
http://www.merseysideviews.com/Merseyside%20Docks/Birkenhead/images/Bir%20Dks%20012.jpg

Mammoth, West Float Birkenhead.
http://www.merseysideviews.com/Merseyside%20Docks/Birkenhead/images/Bir%20Dks%20062.jpg

Waterways
9th February 2007, 12:30
Mammoth constructing New Brighton Landing Stage:
http://www.merseysideviews.com/Mersey%20Dock%20&%20Harbour%20Board/images/MD-%26-HB%2017.jpg

Atlas. Built 1884, Newcastle:
http://www.merseysideviews.com/Mersey%20Dock%20&%20Harbour%20Board/images/MD-%26-HB%2013.jpg

colin lamey
11th February 2007, 15:28
I am researching the history of J H Lamey tugs that operated on the Mersey until approx 1975, anybody with old photos or information ?
Colin Lamey

RCHARLTON
11th February 2007, 16:30
Here's a link to a video showing Mammoth loading the Flying Scotsman on board Saxonia in Liverpool in 1969.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/nationonfilm/00389?size=4x3&bgc=C0C0C0&nbram=1&bbram=1

Keith Adams
12th February 2007, 01:00
Hey Colin.... if you come up with any photos of the Lamey paddle tug which
operated in the Birkenhead docks and River Mersey in the late 1940s I would
really like to see it or them... a big favorite of mine... always towing Tramp
ships and smaller shipping company vessels. The also had one with a square section funnel about that same time. Thanks, Snowy

jhluxton
13th February 2007, 00:05
One of Samson's props was recovered and stands outside the Commodore Hotel at Cóbh.

John Luxton
www.irishseashipping.com

jhluxton
13th February 2007, 00:08
Photo of wreck at http://www.irishwrecksonline.net/details/Samson683-ImagePage.htm

Ooops think I posted reply to wrong thread.What I was going to say was that one of Samson's props was recovered and stands against the front of the Commodore Hotel, Cóbh, County Cork with a plaque on it.

John H. Luxton
www.irishseashipping.com

colin lamey
16th February 2007, 19:20
thats a new one on me snowy, ..
so far have not come across paddle driven tug within the lamey tugs
but will keep researching. thanks for the info

Santos
16th February 2007, 19:42
Colin,

If you go to

http://www.merseysideviews.com/Mersey%20Tugs/pages/Tg%2071.htm

there is a picture of a Paddle Tug, Troon owned by William Lamey, being salvaged in Liverpool.

Chris.

Keith Adams
17th February 2007, 04:05
Colin, I know modern day tugs have many different shaped funnels but in its day (1940s) the Lamey tug "ENERGY" had a square section funnel and the only
one I ever saw (name just sent to me)... If you receive any pics of either the
"TROON" or the "ENERGY" as they were rigged out in the 1940s; I would really
be pleased to view them. Thanks and good luck in your search. Snowy

danube4
17th February 2007, 12:18
Hi Chris. The info about paddle tug troon on www.merseysideviews.com is incorrect. She was built by J P Rennoldson and Sons, South Shields. 1902.
Scrapped 1948.
Barney.

Santos
17th February 2007, 18:33
Thanks Barney --- dont believe all you read aye !

Chris

eyrebrush
20th February 2007, 15:27
A F Smulders also built a floating crane outwardly at least, very similar to the Mammoth (which is actually how I found this site), called these days the Titan III. It began life back in 1922, then called the Titan II, being sought by England after the original Titan crane capsized and sank in the mouth of the Tyne in late 1921 during a storm. Originally it was mounted on a dumb barge and the upper works were steam powered, but in 1979 it was transferred to a somewhat self propelled barge built by the former shipyard company Swan Hunters, the original steam propulsion and power generating units were removed and replaced with diesel engines. The new barge also has a load bearing capacity of 127 gross tons.

I first caught sight of this fantastic structure in june last year during a sight-seeing trip down the river Tyne and it has fascinated me ever since. The paint job is quite striking! The commentator on the boat trip is an ex-tugboat pilot who spoke about having to pull the crane up and down-river alot, and I'm not sure if those were fond memories!

Sadly in about 3months time; it will no longer be here; as it and all of the heavy equipment formerly owned by Swan Hunters is to be sold off (Cloud) There are other cranes of course which I have a high level of interest in (including a 250ton capacity giant cantilever crane), but this one is something more special!

For anyones attention, in case no one else has seen this vintage floating behemoth, here is one of the pictures I took of it the last time I saw it which was in November 2006.

If anyone can tell me more about this crane, or indeed the original Titan; or even more about the company who built it, I would very greatly appreciate it!


Hummmm. Sorry, everyone - just got back to this thread after some laps of time! Trying to catch up!! SOOO much on my mind at the moment! So many cares here at home, and so many other interests! (LOL).
Gavin, Smulders ship builders seem to have specialized in building floating cranes around the 1920's (as well as other types of vessels). Their designs of floating cranes are instantly recognizable. The one you have shown us is obviously one of theirs. I'm afraid I can't offer you any further knowledge on your Titan cranes. Interesting, though; I didn't know of this crane residing on the river Tyne! I'd like to learn more of this one myself. It's obviously a Smulders design. However, disappointingly for me, (smile), It's not the one I was seeking myself. Granted it is similar, but not of the same Mammoth pattern. Not the same jib shape. I still seek Mammoth's TWIN. (Purely out of interest). The plans that I have here refer, in 90% cases, to both of them. ALL the jib plans that I have refer to both. Mammoth was no. 483, the other one was no. 488. I would LOVE to discover the life story of "the other one"! While Mammoth was being built and "tested" there was this other one on land, adjacent to her. Do you, or anyone, have any knowledge of this one? Here is one pic of Mammoth being constructed and two of her under trial. Note the other crane, in preparation, in the background. Here are also two pics, taken from an aircraft, of Smulder's yard, taken in 1927, - seven years after Mammoth was delivered to Liverpool, showing what could be this other crane being moved about at Smulders. Note, in the second picture, far right, the crane building area.
http://www.eyrebrush.free-online.co.uk/Photos/Mammoth%20pics/Mammoth%20Jib%20mounting.jpg
http://www.eyrebrush.free-online.co.uk/Photos/Mammoth%20pics/Mammoth%20before%20delivery.jpg
http://www.eyrebrush.free-online.co.uk/Photos/Mammoth%20pics/Mammoth%20under%20trials.jpg
http://www.eyrebrush.free-online.co.uk/Photos/Mammoth%20pics/Gusto01.jpg
http://www.eyrebrush.free-online.co.uk/Photos/Mammoth%20pics/Gusto02.jpg

jhluxton
20th February 2007, 19:21
Mersey Mammoth has been on her travels again. I understand she was in Dublin today (Feb 20) removing the South Wall ro/ro ramp to provide increased berth space for larger ships calling at the Marine Terminals Ltd berths.

John

www.irishseashipping.com

eyrebrush
20th February 2007, 23:47
Thanks Barney --- dont believe all you read aye !

Chris

Hi, Chris. It was me who gave Barney the info about the paddle tug, Troon, and the Energy being given a square funnel. A friend of mine who lives just up the road from me, and is another model maker, has an extensive library, and he lent me a little book called "Blow Five", Produced by the Journal of Commerce & Shipping Telegraph LTD. I scanned four pages from this book, and emailed them to Barney. It is a history of the Alexandra Towing company, who took over Lamey. It has a lot of info on the Troon, including a picture of her under way in the Mersey, before she was fitted with a mast. We were a little bit concerned about copyright, otherwise I would show you it here. I've been tying to find a contact to ask permission to show it. The Journal of Commerce has gone. It was produced by J.O.C. Publications, but I can't find them either. I've pasted these four pages together on the computer so that it reads as one. It's on my web space, but I'd better not show it here until I know anything about copyright. My guess is that there shouldn't be any problem with it.

Ronnie.

Santos
21st February 2007, 09:28
Hi Ronnie,

Thanks for the information about the Troon, I hope it helps Colin as he apparantly dosnt know about the Troon and the Energy. Have you any idea what sank the Troon and in which dock it happened.

Chris.

eyrebrush
21st February 2007, 19:23
Hi Ronnie,

Thanks for the information about the Troon, I hope it helps Colin as he apparantly dosnt know about the Troon and the Energy. Have you any idea what sank the Troon and in which dock it happened.

Chris.

Hi Chris. Hummm. Here I go again! Didn't know she sank in a dock! You've got me going again! (Read)
Going to have to consult my friend again! LOL.

Ronnie.

Gavin-Phillips
24th February 2007, 23:15
I'm afraid I know literally nothing about the Mammoth floating crane at all really, thats pretty much how I ended up here because I was using Google to try and find out some info. Seems like I've ended up in the best place though! (Thumb) The Titan III was one of several cranes of the same design, I'd love to know more about these and hopefully one day I'll find something. So far information is sketchy, I have some rough dimensions and I do know how much the total operational weight of the Titan I/II and III is, lifting capacities and so on - but nothing much at all about propulsion plants, max water speeds (Titan III is self propelled via diesel engines) or anything like that!

A great video clip too that was, too bad I cant save it. Great to see the crane itself at work, shame it wasn't given more coverage! In fact, from what I have been told of the Flying Scotsman being shipped over to the US; it was against public interest and there was an uproar about it - hardly something that was "wanted". I see nothing much changes!

I'm sure I've heard its now back in England however I could be mistaken? I have been to York Railways Museum which is really incredible. Although I took a couple of hundred pictures of the engines, I lost all of these images and many more of earthmoving machinery which is my main obsession; when I foolishly didnt create a backup on cd - the curse of digital photography.

My main interest at the York museum was in the 3 breakdown cranes they had, plus the "Bauxite" locomotive which was the sole survivor of a few similar trains which had been saved from the scrappers torches. Certainly well worth a visit though. :) What a place for a small cafe, right in front of the infamous Mallard! Goods trains do it for me though, never quite sure why!

jhluxton
25th February 2007, 01:06
and other of the BIRKETT!

Ronnie.[/QUOTE]

Mersey Docks Fleet List 1850 to 1980 published by Countyvise in 2006 details of Birket as follows:

Sold to British Transport Docks Board, Hull 26/03/1979. Does not record what happened after that.

John H. Luxton
www.irishseashipping.com

jhluxton
25th February 2007, 01:09
On the subject of floating cranes on the Mersey - currently there is a crane based locally which is taking part in the work being undertaken on extending the Prince's Landing Stage to accomodate cruise ships.

This crane is named APACHE and photos can be found at:

http://www.irishseashipping.co.uk/photofeatures/ports/apache0207/apache0207.htm

Does anyone know who owns her?

John H. Luxton

Gavin-Phillips
11th March 2007, 17:56
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CRANE-RAISING-SUNK-SUBMARINE-Colon-Harbour-Old-Postcard_W0QQitemZ150099379878QQihZ005QQcategoryZ6 9747QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Posted the full URL instead of the picture in case someone was interested in it (its nothing to do with the Titan/Titan II or Titan III so I'm not bidding on it). This looks quite like the Mammoth, but I'm certainly no expert. So I must ask out of curiousity if anyone knows of a Mammoth-style crane was in operation in Colon Harbour, Panama, South America?

Undated picture though, a date might help I guess! (Cloud)

AndyJohannessen
17th March 2007, 00:54
Hi Guys!
I have just got onto this thread and can tell you probably most of "Mammoth"'s history.I spent many a school holiday on board her going to work with my dad who served on her for may years.I still have Tommy Lynch's skippers cap with the MDHB cap badge on which he gave me when I was a young'un and one of the boiler level glasses which I managed to scrounge from the chief engineer when he was relacing them.I have a ton of photos of Mammoth including crew! If you would like me to post some please let me know and I will do so provided I can work out how to!

Regards

andy

Santos
17th March 2007, 11:25
Andy,

Love to see pics of the old Mammoth, please post some if you can.

Chris.

Lifeboat1721
17th March 2007, 17:42
I have just posted a couple of pics of the Mammouth in Heysham harbour.

Ian

david humphreys
28th March 2007, 16:10
Hello!
My grandfather was chief engineer on the Mammoth from the 1930s, throughout the blitz (My grandmother's hair fell out worrying about him!), until he retired in1953

eyrebrush
3rd April 2007, 06:46
Hi, Andy. I'd love to see ALL of those photographs! LOL. As I am trying to build a 48 scale model of the old Mammoth, they would be of great interest to me, and maybe even helpful! I used to watch the Mammoth at work many a time while I was an art student sketching round the dock system. Would it be possible to email them to me - perhaps a few at a time? I'm on broadband.
Yours hopefully,
Ronnie.

GANSON
3rd June 2007, 19:25
Hello I am new to the forum but sem to have struck lucky, I am trying to source reference data to make a model of the Mersey Mammoth in 1250 scale! yes I am completely mad and fully expect to have to visit the optician a lot. Seriously I am proposing to make the jibs and "latice work" using photo etched brass the hull and "solid structure" to be cast in resin. So for this little expedition into the dark side I will need to source a lot of reference drawings that can be converted into artwork for the chemi-etch brass. Also required would be hull and superstructure details. Obviously at this scale there is a physical limitation on the details that can be reproduced but I would intend to create an accurate representation that could be reproduced. Any one who can help me out?

Gary Anson

Gavin-Phillips
3rd June 2007, 19:48
Hello I am new to the forum but sem to have struck lucky, I am trying to source reference data to make a model of the Mersey Mammoth in 1250 scale! yes I am completely mad and fully expect to have to visit the optician a lot. Seriously I am proposing to make the jibs and "latice work" using photo etched brass the hull and "solid structure" to be cast in resin. So for this little expedition into the dark side I will need to source a lot of reference drawings that can be converted into artwork for the chemi-etch brass. Also required would be hull and superstructure details. Obviously at this scale there is a physical limitation on the details that can be reproduced but I would intend to create an accurate representation that could be reproduced. Any one who can help me out?

Gary Anson

I'm having a hard enough time finding simple specifications of the original Vickres-Armstong built floating crane Titan, and have had a little success with the Smulders-built Titan II. Sorry, can't help at all with the Mammoth. The very best of luck to you though, sounds like an amazing project to undertake.

mpkk
3rd June 2007, 20:39
Hi,
FYI the Mersey Mamoth has recently been in the Milford Haven area assisting with the construction of the new Dragon LNG berth.Saw her arrive at the Port of Pembroke about 5 weeks ago and was very impressed at her handling. Believe she has returned to the Mersey now.
Regards,
Jon

AndyJohannessen
24th June 2007, 20:48
Sorry guys but can we clear this up onca and for all? Mammoth was NEVER a war prize.She was ordered by Imperial Russia, but after the revolution,Russia could not afford her.She was then put on the open market and the Mersey docks and Harbour Board put in the best bid.And,just as a matter of interest,Mersey Mammoth was built in the same shipyard all those years later.I have already sent eyebrush most of this info along with a lot of pics ,sorry eyebrush but I will send the rest as time permits.
OK everyone? lol.

Andy.

Gavin-Phillips
24th June 2007, 21:04
Sorry guys but can we clear this up onca and for all? Mammoth was NEVER a war prize.She was ordered by Imperial Russia, but after the revolution,Russia could not afford her.She was then put on the open market and the Mersey docks and Harbour Board put in the best bid.And,just as a matter of interest,Mersey Mammoth was built in the same shipyard all those years later.I have already sent eyebrush most of this info along with a lot of pics ,sorry eyebrush but I will send the rest as time permits.
OK everyone? lol.

Andy.

Its been claimed at least once that the Titan II/III was a war prize taken from Germany as well. It was simply a replacement ordered after the original Titan crane sank during a storm on the Tyne. The original Titan was built for a Russian order but never made it there due to WW1.

GANSON
7th July 2007, 22:59
I am interested in making a smale scale non working model of the Mersey Mammoth crane, using photo etched brass for the Lattice work. I believe that you have the original plans of the vessel, I realise that they are very large, but I would be willing to pay for copy prints of the information that I required if you were able to share them. I am based in Moreton on the Wirral and can be contacted off board if you want to discuss this matter
Gary Anson.

John Williams 56-65
17th February 2008, 19:40
I remember as a boy during the war seeing the Mammoth as she was sitting on the bottom of the West Float just a little way from the Duke St bridge. As I remember the scene the pontoon section was under the surface but almost all the jib was visible.

old dock bobby
26th July 2008, 21:52
Hi,I have just started on this forum. I have seen the full plans for the Mammoth which were obtained when the MDHB bought the vessel in 1920. They are kept in the Maritime Museum in the 'The Stack' at the Merseyside Museums main offices in Dale Street. You would have to get an introduction letter outlining your bona fides before you would be given the sight of them. Hope this will help you.
Peter Fleming

Roynsam
8th December 2008, 13:06
I was working as a Site Manager for a company called Tilbury Douglas, back in 1995. We were re-furbishing the huge lock gates in the Canada Dock and the dry dock nearby, sorry I dont remember the proper names. I remember we used the Mersey Mammoth for a few lifting operations during the contract.The crew and Captain were just a fantasic set of guys and they even invited my 6 year old daughter and myself to go on a short trip around the docks after they had done some work for us. I was really surprised to be told that the Mammoth is actually run as a ship and not just a floating crane. My daughter was totally enthralled with our, all too short little excursion and she still remembers about it today. The Captain then, was a guy called Yollo (hope I spelled that right) and was very happy to show us around his excellent vessel. The Mammoth was absolutely pristine in condition and cleanliness. I remember saying to Captain Yollo that you could eat your dinner off the floor...

kewl dude
10th December 2008, 04:13
I read this thread for the first time last night, then today I caught the attached Titan in Panama Canal Miraflores lock.

http://www.pancanal.com/eng/photo/camera-java.html

It is still there just the other side of the pair of locks 23:05 December 9, 2008 Panama Canal local time, all lit up and apparently lifting something.

Greg Hayden

steve2
17th March 2009, 18:03
Makko- The Birket and Fender were named after two streams that ran across Leasoe Moss. (I think!)
Steve

Santos
17th March 2009, 20:24
There is a very nasty rumour circulating in Liverpool at the moment that the decision to dispose of the dredger Mersey Mariner later this year, will be followed by one to dispose of Mersey Mammoth. Nothing these days surprises me were property developers et al is concerned, anything marine appears to be a dirty word.

Chris.

Pat Kennedy
17th March 2009, 20:40
There is a very nasty rumour circulating in Liverpool at the moment that the decision to dispose of the dredger Mersey Mariner later this year, will be followed by one to dispose of Mersey Mammoth. Nothing these days surprises me were property developers et al is concerned, anything marine appears to be a dirty word.

Chris.
Chris,
That would surprise me because if there is one vessel that earns her corn, it is the Mersey Mammoth. I have even seen her fitted with a twenty ton grab, dredging off Alfred Locks.
A little known fact about all of MDHC floating cranes, is that it was always the vessel's chief engineer who actually drove the crane.
Regards,
Pat

Santos
17th March 2009, 20:54
Pat,

Thanks for that, hope its not true, but with that lot over there you never know whats coming next.

Chris.

sidsal
19th March 2009, 19:57
Yesterday I was at the Liverpool Marina for the bi-monthly lunch of the old HMS Conway chaps. Among them was Roy Williams who was master of the Mersey Mammoth. He is a brilliant mathamatician and a great chap. If I rember rightly he told me they had sailed it to Barrow for some lifting job some years ago.

KEITH SEVILLE
21st March 2009, 20:37
Hope this isn't the case for the Mersey Mammoth.
She is the only Floating Crane we have in Liverpool and is a very useful vessel, not only on the Mersey but around the coast.

Regards
Keith

Pat Kennedy
21st March 2009, 23:22
Makko- The Birket and Fender were named after two streams that ran across Leasoe Moss. (I think!)
Steve

Thats correct, only its Bidston Moss, not Leasowe Moss
The Birkett dives underground at some point and is rumoured to run beneath Birkett Rd in Rock Ferry, I know that when I worked for Wirral Council, we had major problems with underground water coming up to floorboard level in council houses in Birkett Rd and surrounding roads. We had to 'tank' all the underfloor spaces with concrete.
The Fender runs alongside Moreton, Beechwood and Woodchurch estates, hence Fender Heights, Fender Lane etc.
regards,
Pat

calders
21st February 2010, 10:17
There is a very nasty rumour circulating in Liverpool at the moment that the decision to dispose of the dredger Mersey Mariner later this year, will be followed by one to dispose of Mersey Mammoth. Nothing these days surprises me were property developers et al is concerned, anything marine appears to be a dirty word.

Chris.

Have just joined, having seen on apollo duck a floating crane for sale that looks very much like "Mersey Mammoth".
If she goes elsewhere the port will be disadvantaged for sure, perhaps the master and crew will buy her?!

calders
21st February 2010, 10:59
Any one got 4.5 million Euros? That is the asking price for this fine vessel
Maritime Transportation Consultants have the details

TonyAllen
21st February 2010, 15:33
Pat.Drove back from Arrow park hospital thursday and saw a hugh crane in the old bidston dock area from the m53 wqas it the mammoth Regards Tony

Scousegit
21st February 2010, 16:43
Tony,

Yes it would have been the MM. She was moving tanks from the old Mobil Oil site in the West Float over to Liverpool.

Selling the MM makes no sense at all; she is one of the most valuable assets on the river or even on the west coast of the UK. In fact she has just returned from Holyhead, I presume from assisting with the repair/removal of the damaged link span which was damaged last week; if that alone does not prove her worth then I'm at loss at what will.

This looks like Peel Ports further attempts to reduce their costs base on the assumption that it will cheaper in the medium/long term to hire other vessels when there is a specific need. This of course may look good on paper but, of course, we that is, all of us who live in the real World, know that poo poo happens at the most inconvenient time.

So, I suspect that if they do get rid of her and continue reduce maintenance on the Liverpool system as they have been doing, then fate will come and bite them on the botty, when that happens won’t they look silly.

Scouse.

TonyAllen
21st February 2010, 17:29
Scouse.Thanks very much for your answer, seeing it there bought memories of my first ship, iron ore boat fom bidston 10 days work bye then three monthe medi. 1955.God I'm getting old Cheers Tony

TonyAllen
21st February 2010, 17:38
Scouse. Had a look thru your photos brill, Just think if you had a camera and gone with most of the lads what a collection you would have by now, you are keeping maritime history on the mersey very much alve.Maybe I've seen you on the prom at New Brighton during last summer BEST WISHES Tony Allen

Billieboy
21st February 2010, 18:58
The could sell it to Smit BV in Holland. Then they would crew it from Liverpool, leave it there and when needed, the cost would be five times what the costs are today.

Pat Kennedy
21st February 2010, 20:44
It just does not seem credible that Peel Holdings are actually thinking of selling this floating crane.
I was talking a couple of months ago to one of the crew, who told me that they never have a day lying idle, the vessel is booked up weeks in advance and has a backlog of maintenance work on the port infrastructure.
For example there are always some channel bouys out of position which need lifting and moving back to their charted position. This is work that Peel Holdings, as the port authority, have a statutory duty to do, and it cant be done without the Mersey Mammoth.
However, the 'Bean Counters' are capable of the most crass mistakes when it comes to making the shareholders happy.
Pat(Thumb)

Scousegit
21st February 2010, 21:47
Pat,

I believe that Peel handed over responsibility to Trinity House for buoy maintenance in the channel and river; I note that the Forth Sentinel made her way up to Eastham on this afternoon’s tide, that being the case Would expect that she will be undertaking maintenance in the canal.

Scouse.

WLH
7th March 2010, 20:40
Attenion all hands, has anyone heard or have information about m.v. Windsor Castle, ex NLB Tender Fingal - believed moored River fal - being moved to Leith as museum vessel in company with Britannia: Any information will be welcomed.

Regards......................WLH

verdi
12th August 2010, 15:37
Hello Andy, I hope you don't mind my asking, but are you Otto's son ? I was deckboy 1970-72. I remember some of the dishes he used to cook !

Mike Moran
30th December 2012, 14:43
Hi all
I am interested in what Andy Johannessen says about Tommy Lynch skipper of the Mammoth. Tommy was my great uncle and I used to go to see Everton with him and my dad in the 1970s. My memory of him is that he was a very generous man.