Ship's dancers

Bill Davies
18th December 2007, 15:57
Just viewing a photograph of the 'Cunard Adventurer' Officers and noted in the caption Ships Dancers were referred to as Officers.
Is this a wind up. Please advise.

K urgess
18th December 2007, 17:10
Bill,
Moved your post to it's own thread in the Cunard forum.
I expect it's original position in Pompeyfan's birthday greetings was a mistake.
Salaams

Bill Davies
18th December 2007, 17:40
Bill,
Moved your post to it's own thread in the Cunard forum.
I expect it's original position in Pompeyfan's birthday greetings was a mistake.
Salaams

Thanks for that. It was a coincidence that after sighting the photograph I went back into the home page and the last post at the time was 'Pompeyfan' (known passenger boat man) and also Pat McCardle who commented on the photograph.........!!!!????and it is getting dark.

Derek Roger
18th December 2007, 20:42
Just viewing a photograph of the 'Cunard Adventurer' Officers and noted in the caption Ships Dancers were referred to as Officers.
Is this a wind up. Please advise.

In Brocklebanks we didnt have any dancers ; had a few comic singers though ! who were officers .
Derek

Bill Davies
18th December 2007, 21:18
If the Officers were singers what part of the act did the Engineers play?

Pat McCardle
19th December 2007, 13:33
also Pat McCardle who commented on the photograph.........!!!!????

Would that be Fools & 1st trippers, Bill? The boy sitting on the rail?(Thumb)

RGascoyne
19th December 2007, 13:46
They introduced professional dancers into UCL mid 60s, often husband and wife, who occasionally mixed with officers, but they did not wear uniforms or generally act in that manner. Like hairdressers and the photographer, they were somewhere in the middle, not eating with the officers. Mostly they only used passenger areas in connection with their duties.

Bill Davies
19th December 2007, 13:47
Pat,

I made the assumption that the photograph I was referring to was titled Officers and I was merely asking the status of Ships dancers who were the parents of a 'toddler' on the photograph.
I have absolutely no experience of passenger ships and the like and was hoping to learn what people form the 'Officer contingency'.
Always struggled accepting Ch.Stwds as such in British flag in the 50s/60s but, thats me.

Bill

Pat McCardle
19th December 2007, 23:30
I often wonder about what RO's thought about the rest being 'Officers'?

K urgess
19th December 2007, 23:42
Never thought of 'em as anything else.

Phil Saul
20th December 2007, 00:35
I have absolutely no experience of passenger ships and the like and was hoping to learn what people form the 'Officer contingency'.
Always struggled accepting Ch.Stwds as such in British flag in the 50s/60s but, thats me.

Bill

I've sailed with some Chief Stewards who were a total credit to their rank of officer and some skippers who were a total disgrace.
I can recall one Blue Flue skipper putting his ship aground while departing Singapore in '67 allegedly pissed and another Blue Flue skipper to whom I delivered a bottle of gin every two to three days, and he drank alone !!
This 'officer' crap is bullsh*t now and it was bullsh*t then.
Never made it past assistant steward myself, logged too many times, but I recognised a gentleman when I sailed with one and it had nothing to do with a bit of gold braid.
I see from your profile that you started your seagoing career as deckboy and good on you for having a long and varied career at sea but they do say that it's the officers who came 'up the hawse pipe' who seem to dwell on this 'officer' thing and end up the biggest snobs.
I tended to judge my fellow seamen by who they were and how they performed rather than by what they wore on their arm.

Regards Phil Saul (from the lower deck) (Thumb)

Pat McCardle
20th December 2007, 00:44
'Officer' is only a title ie Chief Officer. Where does it indicate that I am an 'Officer' on my ticket? Chief Mate, Yes. Chief St'wd was always Chief St'wd, that was until BP, et al, re-titled the rank to Catering Officer

This country, GB, has gone 'Officer' crazy. All our Police force, male & female, are now 'Police Officers', where are the Constables. Only an opinion & not wanting to tarnish anyones record, cruise dancers or otherwise.

Derek Roger
20th December 2007, 00:56
In Brocklebanks Chief Stewards were also Pursers .
They did a great job and a lot of their paperwork reduced the amount of work for the Captain and Mate.
I must say I fell out with a few( very few ) but in general they conducted themselves well and were very much of the officer class.
Some were indeed were gentlemen and a pleasure to sail with .


Regards Derek

PS I feel it is sad that at this time of year and for that matter any time to demean a fellow shipmate because one may" in his mind "find him of an inferior class . Thought those days were gone .

Regards Derek

sparkie2182
20th December 2007, 00:59
surely not................. blue flue masters falling below par?????????//

and after so much good training.............best in the m.n.

:)

mclean
20th December 2007, 01:03
It is interesting to note that one of the definitions of the term officer as given in Websters Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary reads..quote The master or any of the mates of a merchant or passenger ship. unquote.....

Pat McCardle
20th December 2007, 10:00
they do say that it's the officers who came 'up the hawse pipe' who seem to dwell on this 'officer' thing and end up the biggest snobs.

That's how William Bligh started & look what happened to him(Jester) Agree that Ch.St'wd was definately an 'Officer & Gent' what those blokes had to witness & make sure that nothing was said outside the 4 walls was all credit to them(Thumb)

Merry Christmas

Bill Davies
20th December 2007, 11:16
Pat,
I would totally agree with your opening statement and furthermore I would say that those of us who did go this route (in the 60s or Master (FG) pre STCW 78) were in the main well balanced individuals as we carry a 'chip on both shoulders'. One had to experience the demarcation in the 50s/60s to understand. I will also add that the last time I wore a uniform was on a British tanker as Ch.Off in 66. From 69 on it was NBC khaki.

Bill

Chouan
20th December 2007, 12:30
surely not................. blue flue masters falling below par?????????//

and after so much good training.............best in the m.n.

:)

Indeed! Perhaps you should quote that on another thread!?

Chris Isaac
20th December 2007, 12:45
Wasn't this thread about dancers?
Let's re-start the music!

Bill Davies
20th December 2007, 15:20
I would like one of the passenger boat men to explain to what extent the Officer status is extended in these type of vessels.

RGascoyne
20th December 2007, 15:27
See my comments earlier in this thread but otherwise UCL's officers came from Deck, Engineers, Radio, Surgeon, Catering and Pursers. Leading hands then made up all the senior operational roles like Chief Barman, Chef or Head Waiter.

sparkie2182
20th December 2007, 20:55
chouan......

quite correct, i would have liked to link the comments above to the thread to which you refer.

amazing how two threads collide........:)

Phil Saul
22nd December 2007, 00:11
surely not................. blue flue masters falling below par?????????//

and after so much good training.............best in the m.n.

:)

Just to put the record straight, I also sailed with some brilliant Blue Flue skippers such as Captain Collett, a real gent with a dry sense of humour, Albert Lane and Fred ??, the master of the Agapenor when she was trapped in the Bitter Lakes.
He used to join the four catering staff for lunch occasionally after the main service was over and he always bought us a drink.
Really down to earth and a great guy.

Regards Phil (Thumb)

tunatownshipwreck
22nd December 2007, 00:29
I saw lots of dancing in a galley when a huge pot of soup spilled.

redgreggie
22nd December 2007, 02:41
I worked in a galley 'when the soup spilled', the floor was like a skating rink, all good fun though, tail end of a hurricane in 1966, on the Dorset, Federal Lines on the way out to New Zealand.
Wonderful ship, great crew, absolutely the best.

Ray...........Galley boy.

Cunarder
23rd December 2007, 01:43
I sailed on the Adventurer during her latter days - a fun ship for sure. The dancers were part of the "Entertainment staff" who fell within the Hotel department. They were never considered as "officers" whilst I was there.

Alan Marsden

tedc
28th December 2007, 16:04
It is interesting to note that one of the definitions of the term officer as given in Websters Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary reads..quote The master or any of the mates of a merchant or passenger ship. unquote.....


The 'Universal English Dictionary" says that an "officer" is one who holds an office or position of authority, trust or service'

Wheras a "dancer" is a professional who executes elaborate and graceful steps..."

I can see where all the confusion is coming from!!!

[=P]

Pat McCardle
28th December 2007, 17:28
The 'Universal English Dictionary" says that an "officer" is one who holds an office or position of authority, trust or service'

Wheras a "dancer" is a professional who executes elaborate and graceful steps..."

I can see where all the confusion is coming from!!!

[=P]

Britannia 2002 states an 'Officer' = Master or any of the Mates of a merchant or passenger ship. So where does that leave the engineers?(EEK) I bet they look good on the dance floor(Thumb)

Burned Toast
28th December 2007, 19:28
tut tut we all signed on for wages or salary (Officer) that does not pay the mortgage!!.

cboots
29th December 2007, 00:12
I appreciate that this thread has been running for some time and I have only just tuned in out of curiosity. All I can say is that I am astonished; reallly guys, does anyone really care about this crap.
CBoots

Steve Woodward
29th December 2007, 00:41
Hands to battle stations and clear the decks for action (Jester)

Gareth Jones
29th December 2007, 02:53
tut tut we all signed on for wages or salary (Officer) that does not pay the mortgage!!.


Yes indeed -
I remember reading in the union magazine "Signal" on the occasion when the Radio Officers Union triumphantly negotiated changing the braid from the old wavy stripes to straight ones with green borders and claimed it a great triumph.
Someone wrote in a excellent letter in the next edition admonishing the ROU for having the wrong ambitions, it ended with the phrase :-

"Come on ROU, gold in the pocket not on the sleeves !"

mclean
29th December 2007, 04:03
I appreciate that this thread has been running for some time and I have only just tuned in out of curiosity. All I can say is that I am astonished; reallly guys, does anyone really care about this crap.
CBoots

Methinks you are taking this thread a little too seriously.

Pat McCardle
29th December 2007, 12:17
(Jester) (Jester) (Jester)

Chris Isaac
29th December 2007, 13:09
All these arguments took place when i was at sea 40 years ago. Dont tell me they still go on today..... they were stupid then and remain stupid today. And anyway wasnt this thread about dancers?

Bearsie
29th December 2007, 20:09
surely not................. blue flue masters falling below par?????????//

and after so much good training.............best in the m.n.

:)
Sparkie, I am flabberghasted myself.... (EEK)

Gads I didn't even know that there are dancers employed on ships..
We could have used some dance lessons on our ever bouncy coasters, perhaps would have been a quicker and safer way to get around. (Thumb)

JoK
29th December 2007, 21:36
There's Dancers on ships?

I only ever have seen tap dancing around the truth on ships (Frogger)

Peter Eccleson
7th January 2008, 11:36
Interesting thread..... LOL!
The 'dancers' in the photograph where also classed a 'Cruise Staff' and hence were given 'Officer status' on that particular ship (Cunard Adventurer). They were actually responsible for the dancing lessons onboard, demo dancing etc. Most of the cruise staff management were given membership of the Officers Wardroom and Officer status on board at that time.

John Briggs
7th January 2008, 12:33
Dancers, DANCERS? Got to be officers - that's what officers do, dance and prance around the place! LOL

dom
7th January 2008, 13:45
from pole dancers in a strip club to officer status,quite a quick step i would say

Peter Eccleson
7th January 2008, 18:49
Dom

Like it!!

cboots
7th January 2008, 23:50
Officers' Wardroom on a merchant ship? New one on me.
CBoots

John Briggs
8th January 2008, 00:23
I suppose they would qualify for the Merchant Navy Medal as well, along with the young girl from the beauty salon!

dom
8th January 2008, 07:01
along with the medal would they get a seamans dicharge(Jester)
oh the pain.

John Briggs
8th January 2008, 10:08
Knowing what some of the seamen were like I am sure they did!!LOL

Peter Eccleson
8th January 2008, 12:45
CBoots
Got the official 'wardroom Plaque' off QE2 ...... she's a merchant vessel. No accounting for taste!

cboots
8th January 2008, 13:59
Sorry Peter, you guys were in a different shipping industry to the one I was in. We had mates and engineers and we talked like merchant seamen, not in RN speak.
CBoots

Bill Davies
8th January 2008, 14:03
Cboots,
Coincidence..... I was thinking the same thing!!

Peter Eccleson
15th January 2008, 13:27
CBoots - like I said..... no accounting for taste. I 'inherited' the term wardroom on the Cunard passenger ships.... didn't invent it! Don't shoot the messenger! :-)

Think the term was used on P&O as well .... but could be wrong!

Frank P
15th January 2008, 13:59
In my time onboard the Royal Viking Star (1973/6) the dancers/entertainers were not classed as officers but most of them had passenger cabins (the cabins that were deemed unsuitable for 1st class passengers as the cabins were too noisy), the dancers and most of the other entertainment staff did not eat with the officers they took their food in the crew mess with all the other crew members.
Cheers Frank (Thumb)