Interesting footage of Beach Launch

samuel j
1st January 2008, 16:44
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=KCYADeobHaI

From 1995 , Aldeburghs Mersey, launching into rough stuff. Goes a bit pear shaped at start but a great recovery by the Cox.

Santos
1st January 2008, 19:16
I bet the bottom had a bit of pebble rash !!!!!! try explaining that to the D.I.(Jester)

nhp651
1st January 2008, 19:39
Brilliant!
It is no wonder that these guys, and their seamanship is so revered and respected the world over, and so admired by SAR units world wide!
I for one feel so proud that they are British.
A happy and safe 2008 to all lifeboatmen everywhere!

tacho
1st January 2008, 20:16
Brilliant!
It is no wonder that these guys, and their seamanship is so revered and respected the world over, and so admired by SAR units world wide!
I for one feel so proud that they are British.
A happy and safe 2008 to all lifeboatmen everywhere!

Not sure that was an exhibition of good seamanship.

nhp651
1st January 2008, 20:19
it was a good demonstration of getting out of a tricky and sticky situation, and that's what is admirable! and within seconds as well!!!

Philthechill
1st January 2008, 20:31
What a complete and utter cock-up! Surely the pointy-ended bit should have been facing out to sea, or haven't they quite mastered that part yet! They were lucky, mighty lucky that they weren't rolled-over being beam-on to the sea's as they were!! Good seamanship? Revered world-wide? H-m-m-m-m-m!!(Hippy)

JoK
1st January 2008, 21:52
Let's see, the struts are probably knocked out of alignment along with the shafts and the propellers are probably 2" smaller in diameter with the grinding in the beach rubble. They are lucky she didn't roll. But they made good time to the bow to get the weight off the stern. I didn't see any lines on anyone.
I always wondered how they launched in any kind of swell. It is as scarey as I imagined!

samuel j
1st January 2008, 22:20
I would have viewed this slightly differently, presuming it was not a launch exercise and an actual shout. Looks like very iffy conditions so would think an actual shout. Regardless would have thought they hardy men to even try once tasked to do so. Would then feel it remarkable footage...and seamanship. As luck would have it, it seems the starboard engine was slow starting and large wave hit at same time on port knocking his bow to starboard. However seems calmly enough he got the crew weight forward to give even marginal help on draught aft. He then at right moment seems to gun the starboard engine astern which swings her a bit and then guns both 285hp Cats....I think.
I think a great recovery by the cox in seas that most of use would not even consider heading out from a walled harbour. Just my thoughts on it. brgds John(Thumb)

Santos
1st January 2008, 22:20
What a complete and utter cock-up! Surely the pointy-ended bit should have been facing out to sea, or haven't they quite mastered that part yet! They were lucky, mighty lucky that they weren't rolled-over being beam-on to the sea's as they were!! Good seamanship? Revered world-wide? H-m-m-m-m-m!!

Before we start pulling holes in people from in front of a computer screen, in a room without wind, rain and heavy seas, Phil, lets consider a couple of words - INCIDENT and TRAINING. Launching a Lifeboat into conditions where every other sensible person is heading for home is a tricky, dangerous and skillful operation. Not only must the Coxswain be fully trained and experienced but so also must the launcher be too. The timing and the execution must be exact or events like that seen on the video and worse would occur.

How do we become able to carry out these operations, only by practice, practice and more practice. How do we gain this practice, we give people the chance to train in the conditions that the lifeboat is required to go out in. By doing this the necessary knowledge is gained and experiences committed to memory so that when the time arrives and when the boat is launched into conditions like this all goes well hopefully. Everyone has to learn sometime and not just in a simulator but in the real world.

It is a tribute to the volunteer crews and the trainers that the training is carried out so realisticly and that very very few incidents like this occur.

If you had been watching carefully you will have seen the crew reacting correctly under the circumstances. Get forward, get the bow down and the stern up and give it the gun to get it out of trouble, the boat can go astern into rough weather just as well as going ahead when circumstances demand, as has been demonstrated on many a rough weather rescue. They are designed to survive and operate in rough weather and do so admirably.

Under the circumstances the Coxswain reacted very well, saved the boat and the crew and demonstrated just what good seamanship, training and quick thinking can do. Everyone will have learnt from it, the Coxwain at the time, the Crew and the Launcher and everyone watching. But that is just a part of their training believe me. For all we know the boat could have been on a shout which judging by the weather is highly probable and it would have carried on and completed its duty.

Its a fact of life the Lifeboat has to be launched in bad weather and perhaps just a reminder that everyone on board that boat in that sequence is a VOLUNTEER. A volunteer ready and willing to risk their lives when the pager goes off, whether the sun is shining or its blowing a Force 10, and a volunteer ready to go through the training and experiences that that training realises and requires.

I hope that you will reconsider your post and perhaps acknowledge that these people are good at their trade, no not good, bloody good, but also that people have to learn and during that learning process mistakes can and often happen. Nobody is perfect but everyone tries very hard to do their very best after all they are only human.


Chris. (Cloud)

JoK
1st January 2008, 22:25
I am curious. Who owns the boats? Are they owned by the government? Who is responsible for maintenance and repair of them?
If the boats are manned by volunteers, it is a lot to ask for repairs as well, or is it?

nhp651
1st January 2008, 22:28
I'm sure, philthechill, you would turn this "cock up" crew away from you as a casualty, for being so inept, and refuse their assistance in a time of crisis
And I'm sure that Aldeburgh's crew would be as disgusted and distressed with your comments (as I am) as to the way in which they reacted to a very difficult and stressfull situation!!!
I would like to have seen your response to such a situation in such circumstances?
Jok, it's owned by the Royal National Lifeboat Institution!
And I think Santos has hit the nail on the head with his coments.These guys are to be commended, not belittled ,as philthechill would like to do!

Santos
1st January 2008, 22:30
The boats are owned and maintained by the Royal National Lifeboat Institution a Charity and they are manned by volunteer crews who receive no pay only small allowances to compensate them for time spent in service.

Chris.

samuel j
1st January 2008, 22:32
JOK would this help "The RNLI is the charity that provides a 24-hour lifesaving service around the UK and Republic of Ireland.

Training is vital to allow volunteers to go to sea and save lives"

link here : http://www.rnli.co.uk/

"The Mersey was the first 'fast' carriage slipway lifeboat, introduced in 1988. It was designed mainly to be launched from a carriage but can also lie afloat or be slipway launched when required. Propellors are fully protected by partial tunnels and substantial bilge keels allowing the boat to take the ground without damage."
brgds John

JoK
1st January 2008, 22:48
So these boats are substantially different from the Aruns, the Aruns would have taken a bit of damage under the same circumstances.

And it is all done by donations. The mind boggles, I know how much these boats cost to keep out and operational. They are not cheap. It is certainly a different world.

samuel j
1st January 2008, 22:53
JOK, would not like to be doing it in my old Arun....LOL
The prop tunnels on the Merseys give great protection but understand you lose some of the twin screw benefits for manoevering under engines.
The Arun has more open props so very responsive .

JoK
1st January 2008, 22:56
Yes very responsive.
So much so, when I am invited out for a "cruise" I am hesitant to agree for fear they will get a SAR call while I am there. We still have 9 Aruns in service.

The fuel consumption for these newer boats must be much higher with a tunnel, are they running Cats? just re-read. yes Cats. Which brings more questions to mind. LOL

nhp651
1st January 2008, 23:03
I don't know whether this will work Jok but will try a thumbnail of the tunnels on the Mersey class boat.neil.
There was little danger of damage as these boats were designed as a beach launch lifeboat to supercede the old Rother and earlier Oakley class lifeboat.

JoK
1st January 2008, 23:09
Thank you for posting the shots nhp651
Very rugged looking design. Clears up more of the mystery for me! Just couldn't wrap my mind around launching off a trailer. Still looks scarey as hell!

nhp651
1st January 2008, 23:22
Jok, if you think this was "scarey as hell" Imagine the old pulling and Sailing lifeboats before the advent of the motor lifeboat.
There is a story of the old Cromer (Norfolk) lifeboat trying to get off in a stong northerly gail to rescue the crew of an old barge called Sepoy. the crew were hung into the rigging for hours, 200 meters from shore watching the drama of the lifeboat and her crew as she was continually flung back up the beach on many occassions. Finally the coxs.n and his crew got the boat off and rescued the crew after some hours of trying.
That coxs'n was a certain man called henry Blogg, an eventual 3 times RNLI gold medal winner, ( and he gained a number of silver medals for gallentry one of which was for this rescue ) and no one ever called these rescues, when his boat turned sideways into the surf, a "cock up" or "bad seamanship!"

Bearsie
1st January 2008, 23:40
Scary and very impressive ! Technically they are not "professionals since they are unpaid volunteers, but they sure seem to know their stuff! (Thumb)

I believe the UK, Ireland and Germany are all Volunteer Charity, while the US and a host of others use a Coast Guard paid by the tax payer.

Steve Woodward
2nd January 2008, 00:52
Be very interesting to hear what actually happened, Most likely an engine prob,but a fine seaman-like recovery, if she had been beached fully it might have been very difficult to get her back on the trailer ready for the next launch

Bearsie
2nd January 2008, 01:03
Be very interesting to hear what actually happened, Most likely an engine prob,but a fine seaman-like recovery, if she had been beached fully it might have been very difficult to get her back on the trailer ready for the next launch

Hhmmm, How do they do that?
I assumed they run it up the beach Viking Style and then winch it back on the trailer at their convenience?

Philthechill
2nd January 2008, 08:24
My apologies to all hands and especially to those hardy souls who makeup the RNLI. As was so properly pointed-out it's very, very easy to sneer and make snide comments when one is sat in front of a computer screen and, moreover, to make such comments having been at sea myself is absolutely unforgiveable.
Fortunately I was never in such a position as to need the services of the RNLI but, no doubt, if I had I wouldn't have been too concerned as to how they'd launched or how they'd arrived alongside.
Again my humble apologies. VERY sincerely meant. Philip Roe
P.S. I have tried to delete my offensive entry but, to my everlasting shame, find this impossible.

samuel j
2nd January 2008, 09:32
Good man Phil, sure we all have can all have a bad hair day... LOL (Jester) ....admittedly less hair each day to worry about in my case....heehee
I only put the link up as a 'out of interest' kind of thing and last thing I wanted was any controversy over it.
Anyway water under the bridge now, okay and lets move on to a good 2008 on SN.
bgds and a happy new year to you and yours.
John(Thumb)

Santos
2nd January 2008, 09:36
Thanks Phil - all forgotton lets have a Happy New Year. (Thumb)

Chris.

nhp651
2nd January 2008, 10:24
Like wise too, phill. Unfortunatley you felt my wroth, (for which I apologise)as I have a totally biased opinion of the RNLI lifeboat crews of this country, as as an 8 year old my life was saved from certain drowning when I became trapped under the slipway of Fleetwood lifeboat station on a fast ebb tide, when the selfless actions of a crewman jumped into the river to pull me out.
Naturally I won't have a word said against them!
Tunnelled vision maybe, but I have 48 reasons for being so........the birthdays I have celebrated since that day.

tacho
2nd January 2008, 12:31
Launching from a standing start off a trailer into moderate to heavy breakers is not wise. There is no momentum (as when coming down a slip) to keep the boat on course for the critical period during which the screws start generating thrust and the boat gathers way. In this instance they were very lucky not to have suffered severe damage and injury to crew.
I am slightly puzzled as to why any criticism of the RNLI is met with such venom. After all most are not anti lifeboat per se and what organisation couldn’t benefit from some criticism.

Sister Eleff
2nd January 2008, 12:52
Wow! I am impressed! Much (Applause) to all RNLI people.

nhp651
2nd January 2008, 16:22
I thought the job of criticism, Tacho, was for the RNLI District Inspectors, and not for us un informed (and as RNLI matters are concerned) uneducated laymen, in such matters,
I for one would like to keep it that way,especially when it isn't constructive criticism anyway!

tacho
2nd January 2008, 16:31
I thought the job of criticism, Tacho, was for the RNLI District Inspectors, and not for us un informed (and as RNLI matters are concerned) uneducated laymen, in such matters,
I for one would like to keep it that way,especially when it isn't constructive criticism anyway!
Reply With Quote

Just as well I'm not an uneducated layman then.

signalman
2nd January 2008, 17:07
The RNLI lifeboats are manned by volunteers who don't stand by and watch others drowning, like those recently reported by the news media. The RNLI is maintained both by volunteers for the job, and by public donations. If the Government ever becomes involved with the Institution, that will be the kiss of death for it, and for the natural decent reaction of human beings to go to the aid of others - so lacking these days. Signalman.

Steve Woodward
2nd January 2008, 17:10
Hhmmm, How do they do that?
I assumed they run it up the beach Viking Style and then winch it back on the trailer at their convenience?

They do bearsie - but not broadside on, I should have made my point clearer

samuel j
2nd January 2008, 18:07
Heres a link to a US Coast guard bit of hairy stuff

http://duggmirror.com//environment/Mind_Blowing_25FT_Rogue_Wave_Capsizes_Coast_Guard_ Ship_PICS/plain.html

GALTRA
2nd January 2008, 18:14
So these boats are substantially different from the Aruns, the Aruns would have taken a bit of damage under the same circumstances.

And it is all done by donations. The mind boggles, I know how much these boats cost to keep out and operational. They are not cheap. It is certainly a different world.
Jok, this might help explain costs of service etc. Hope it's readable.. Re: the launch, I would think they were just unlucky and a backwash wave deflected an incoming wave to catch her on the port bow before they got enough way on to break clear. To recover in onshore swell and seas, the Mersey is run at speed straight up on the beach here at our local station, Clogherhead. Charley

GALTRA
2nd January 2008, 18:32
Tacho, There is in fact a prepuslsion rope attached via a slip attachment near the fore end on the keel and back to a block at the aft end of the launch cradle and the to a high speed winch on the launching tractor. This combined with the forward movement of the tractor shoots the boat of at usually enough momentum to gain sufficent speed to have steerage way, but when a wave hits at the crucial moment it can dull the effect. It's one of the many risks these brave men and women face on a call out.. Charley

JoK
2nd January 2008, 18:51
The RNLI lifeboats are manned by volunteers who don't stand by and watch others drowning, like those recently reported by the news media. The RNLI is maintained both by volunteers for the job, and by public donations. If the Government ever becomes involved with the Institution, that will be the kiss of death for it, and for the natural decent reaction of human beings to go to the aid of others - so lacking these days. Signalman.

Sorry, got to disagree with that statement.
All of the Canadian Coast Guard is SAR, besides the lifeboats and just because they are government employees does not mean they are not going to aid others.
Maybe this is something to do with your government and how the employees are treated?

nhp651
2nd January 2008, 19:04
Tacho, if you read my post correctly you would have seen that I said "uneducated and uninformed in matters of the RNLI," meaning that the layman is as learned about the correct timing and methodology of beach launching a Mersey Class lifeboat from a tractor on a shingle beach with an onshore wind and swell as I am.
Perhaps as a Master mariner you have learned such intricacies as those that have been commented on, but if you haven't you have no more cause to offer open criticism of these gallant men than I ever would, and that is my critisism of your post, not you as a person!

signalman
2nd January 2008, 19:20
Sorry, got to disagree with that statement.
All of the Canadian Coast Guard is SAR, besides the lifeboats and just because they are government employees does not mean they are not going to aid others.
Maybe this is something to do with your government and how the employees are treated?

JoK - I was referring to recent events inland in the UK, when two people in uniform watched a young person drown "because they had not been trained". Perhaps I should have made that clearer. No inference to any Service outside the UK was intended. Signalman

JoK
2nd January 2008, 20:01
Sorry I misread that signalman.
This is all very new and interesting territory for me.

I passed around the printout with the refit costs of the Sevrins. The man who refits the Aruns almost swooned at the thought of that much refit money on a SAR boat (LOL)

samuel j
2nd January 2008, 20:05
"Jok - I passed around the printout with the refit costs of the Sevrins. The man who refits the Aruns almost swooned at the thought of that much refit money on a SAR boat "

His brother here.... ha, ha.... still we do our best....(Jester)

Bearsie
2nd January 2008, 21:32
Launching from a standing start off a trailer into moderate to heavy breakers is not wise. There is no momentum (as when coming down a slip) to keep the boat on course for the critical period during which the screws start generating thrust and the boat gathers way. In this instance they were very lucky not to have suffered severe damage and injury to crew.
I am slightly puzzled as to why any criticism of the RNLI is met with such venom. After all most are not anti lifeboat per se and what organisation couldn’t benefit from some criticism.

But that seems to be common practice on shingle beaches, so I'd call it a common procedure. I didn't even know that they used a "sling shot" (see post by Galtra), very clever!
It is one reason that I am very loath to critique anyone when I am not sure of all the intricacies of an operation...
The only thing I could see on the video is that the launch seems to happen right into a wave trough with the next wave right in front.
Alas, I never tried this trick myself so I wouldn't be able to say if that is good, bad, indifferent, or plain not doable.

Now, I would like to know if a jet drive wouldn't work better in this type of operation? Has anyone ever tried that? (Smoke)

samuel j
2nd January 2008, 21:52
Ultimately should be at most stations where beach launching is a must
some photos here :
http://www.fileylifeboat.co.uk/fcb2.htm

Classification all-weather lifeboat
Propulsion jet
Launch method carriage
afloat
Selfrighting yes
Selfrighting type inherent
Hull type planning
Hull material Fibre Reinforced Composite (FRC)
Superstructure material Fibre Reinforced Composite (FRC)
Length 13,60 m
Beam 4,54 m
Draught 0,75 m
Displacement 14,6 ton
Speed 25 - 27 knots
Experimental: 30 knots
Jets 2
Engines 2x 550 hp
Engine manufacturer Caterpillar
Jet manufacturer Hamilton
Range 250 nautical miles
Crew 5

samuel j
2nd January 2008, 22:02
This a clip of the Dutch Sars lads , she also jet

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=axP-3wUgC9k&feature=related

and 2nd link is from their mast cam

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=QDLQmk2gShY&feature=related

samuel j
2nd January 2008, 22:16
And finally a nice bit of footage of Courtmacsherrys Trent

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=wVPE0J7qPnQ&feature=related

Santos
2nd January 2008, 23:24
John,

Please dont ignore the good work of the Altlantic 75 too, ( its the first lifeboat seen in the film about the Trent ), my station has an Atlantic 75 and they go out in all conditions too and are open to the elements as much if not more than the AWLBs. They along with the D Class tend to get overlooked in favour of the AWLBs and dont attract the publicity the AWLBs attract. Their crews are, I would say, more at risk of injury than the AWLBs but tend to be ignored in any publicity.
Chris.

samuel j
2nd January 2008, 23:53
Absolutely Chris
The Atlantic 75 based in Crossaven here, a busy station and grand bunch of lads and lassies. Have seen them out in nasty stuff, and not for the feint hearted. some footage here of Atlantics and Ds you might not have seen
brgds from a windy Cork Harbour

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=UjveOa3LRWw

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3gpMijZ2Hg

and to end sure I'll have to put some shots of myself and my young fella on way to Kinsale last Oct.... only amateurs though..LOL
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=gfD9_11X400

sparkie2182
2nd January 2008, 23:57
i feel sick...........:(


a safe new year to all s.a.r. wherever you are in the world...............

gribeauval51
3rd January 2008, 00:40
Hhmmm, How do they do that?
I assumed they run it up the beach Viking Style and then winch it back on the trailer at their convenience?

Correct!! The boat is beached and then hauled clear of the water by the Talus tractor. The carriage is then positioned behind the boat and tilted down, the Talus then hauls the boat back on to the carriage which levels out and the hold down chains fitted. After washing down with plain water the boat is rehoused, refuelled and made ready for the next service. A good beach crew can do this in under 10 mins.

regards Mike

JoK
3rd January 2008, 15:04
And finally a nice bit of footage of Courtmacsherrys Trent

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=wVPE0J7qPnQ&feature=related

it was removed :(

samuel j
3rd January 2008, 15:16
Heres a bit to make up : Beaching Technique

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=BG0rBws2YV0

JoK
3rd January 2008, 15:20
I have learnt a lot from this thread. Thanks for starting it!!

samuel j
3rd January 2008, 15:24
One more for today :

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=eeOsc6vNGac

Hawkeye
11th January 2008, 23:26
I have seen Lifeboat Stations in Cornwall up on the cliffs. I would love to see one of them being launched down the long slipway and then recovered. Are they still in use? I think one is at St Ives or Padstow.

samuel j
11th January 2008, 23:37
I have seen Lifeboat Stations in Cornwall up on the cliffs. I would love to see one of them being launched down the long slipway and then recovered. Are they still in use? I think one is at St Ives or Padstow.

This link might be of some help

http://www.padstow-lifeboat.org.uk/Webcams.htm

or this Tenby I think http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=iRtp9PNwPns

brgds
John