TSB Report-Queen of the North

JoK
13th March 2008, 13:57
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/reports/marine/2006/m06w0052/m06w0052.asp

You can all have a look now and see if the sex on the bridge rumours are true!

Derek Roger
13th March 2008, 16:33
Thanks Jok ;
Interesting reading ! Cheers Derek

mclean
13th March 2008, 16:49
It has taken two years and close to a million dollars to come up with this most unsatisfactory report. It states nothing which was not obvious shortly after the incident. The 4th.mate has to come forward and explain the missing fourteen minutes from Sainty Point to when she hit Gil Island. Having spen two years with Northland Navigation on this run ,I am at a loss as to why a vessel leaving Granville Channel would continue on a course to destruction as was the case here. Come forward 4th.mate and explain yourself. Colin

JoK
13th March 2008, 19:02
I have heard a lot of negativity about the report's value, though I haven't had a chance to look at it.

non descript
14th March 2008, 14:44
JoK, thank you for posting the link to the report, it is more than helpful in putting the case in a clear and unbiased fashion. - In passing I see Lloyds' List makes comment of their own today, which for interest I reproduce (and acknowledge their copyright)

(c) Lloyd's List - Friday 14th March 2008

Ferry sank because of ‘distracted’ crew
Report says navigational practice not followed
Leo Ryan - Montreal - Friday 14 March 2008


THE Queen of the North ferry sank off the British Columbia coast late at night on March 22, 2006, because the crew did not follow “sound navigational practice” while sailing down a narrow channel during a storm, Canada’s Transportation Safety Board said in its final report.

The report was released on Wednesday following a two-year investigation into the event that killed two passengers on the BC Ferries’ vessel, which was carrying 101 passengers and crew.

“The system failed that night,” said TSB chair Wendy Tadros. “Sound watchkeeping practices were not followed and the bridge watch lacked a third certified person.” The ferry took 14 minutes to veer off course and run aground on the shore of Gil Island.

The report said that Karl Lilgert, the fourth officer on the bridge, failed to order a course correction and that the quartermaster, Karen Bricker, did not alter course because they might have been distracted by three factors: they were engaged in personal conversation; there was a squall making navigation difficult; they had lost track of a fishing vessel on the ferry’s radar.

A ferry workers’ union in British Columbia confirmed that the two crew members had ended a romantic relationship two weeks earlier and this had been their first shift together since. The union denied that they were engaged in inappropriate behaviour at the time. But the report suggests that the whole story has not been told, possibly due to an ongoing criminal investigation and civil court action.

An alarm that would have alerted the crew to the course deviation was turned off and other navigational equipment “was not set up to take full advantage of the available safety features”.

The report was “unable to explain why the fourth officer and quartermaster did not follow basic watch-keeping practices, to keep the vessel on course, nor why the fourth officer failed to detect the vessel’s improper course for up to 14 minutes”.

An internal report by BC Ferries concluded that the Queen of the North sank after three crew members in charge failed to make a routine course correction. All three were fired for failing to co-operate with the internal investigation.

The ship’s second officer was also on duty at the time, but was on a meal break.

mclean
14th March 2008, 16:33
The only positive thing about the release of this report, is that it now gives the RCMP total freedom to be more agressive in their search for the truth.

AncientBrit
15th March 2008, 02:17
A guy manning the shore radio implied that had the alarm gone off, he doubts they would have heard, because the radio on the bridge was playing music so loud he could hear in over the radio.
Karen Bricker was not qualified to be at the wheel. No one seems to know, or if they do they not telling where the officer of the watch was during period leading up to grounding.
The whole affair smells rank to me. Everyone seems so totally involved in avoiding responsibilty and no one seems to give a damn about the poor souls who lost relatives.
There will definately be a civil suite when this sorry affair drags to some conclusion. The fact that the staff on duty at the time are refusing to say anything is beyond reason. What happened to the old belief that the Captain of a vessel was responsible for what happened on and to that vessel?
AB

mclean
15th March 2008, 04:05
AB, It is certainly a sorry state of affairs. The sooner the RCMP get going ,the better. Is it not amazing to note that the day that the report came out, the 4th.mate apologised to everyone through the media? Nothing mentioned in the apology about what he was or was not doing during those 14 minutes! Maybe under oath he will tell the truth, but I doubt it. Colin

JoK
15th March 2008, 11:03
What happened to the old belief that the Captain of a vessel was responsible for what happened on and to that vessel?

Agreed. The Captain is paid the biggest bucks to be responsible but never seem to be held responsible.

Derek Roger
15th March 2008, 14:58
What I got from the report is that the 4th mate and the female QM had a relationship which broke up two weeks prior to the incident . The QM had been on sick leave and had just returned . This was the first watch with the two of them together .
Who knows what happened ?? were they making up ? or discussing their break up ?? Only they know the answer to that and I'm sure they are not going to talk .

Derek


As Jok says " It is what it is "

mclean
15th March 2008, 16:14
Agreed. The Captain is paid the biggest bucks to be responsible but never seem to be held responsible.

JoK, After clearing Prince Rupert, the master departed to his cabin to sleep. I would guess that the first thing he knew about this fiasco was when the vessel grounded on Gil Island. In all probability he he is still in the dark as to the reason behind this disaster, (although am sure he is receiving advice from his lawyers)! An old golfing buddy of mine, ex. BC Coast pilot and examiner for master and mates in Vancouver for a time have of course been chatting about this episode. Neither of us can figure out why the vessel was on auto-pilot coming down Greenville Channel. How times have changed. Too many toys to play with and not enough time spent on doing what your are supposed to be doing. Colin

Derek Roger
15th March 2008, 16:37
What I got from the report is that the 4th mate and the female QM had a relationship which broke up two weeks prior to the incident . The QM had been on sick leave and had just returned . This was the first watch with the two of them together .
Who knows what happened ?? were they making up ? or discussing their break up ?? Only they know the answer to that and I'm sure they are not going to talk .

Derek


As Jok says " It is what it is "


If you don,t want to read the whole report you will find the relationship between the 4/O and QM 1 ; music playing ; chatting etc in 1.2 and 1.15 of the report.
Derek

Vernal
15th March 2008, 20:07
It looks as though the RCMP are opening up the case again,according to todays News.

Derek Roger
17th March 2008, 23:22
Good !
If one reads the whole report things were at best abnormal on the bridge at the time of the incident .

The report conclusions don,t seem to put any great importance on this for some obscure reason .

If the RCMP ( Mounted Police ) are getting involved one would have to conclude they have evidence of some criminal neglect ??? They would not get involved with a civil or marine incident .

One will have to wait and see but I am sure we have not heard the last of this event .

Regards Derek

JoK
18th March 2008, 00:29
Actually Derek under the Criminal Code here in Canada, they do have to get involved if there is negligance.Planes, trains and ships are in the Code.

Derek Roger
18th March 2008, 00:58
Actually Derek under the Criminal Code here in Canada, they do have to get involved if there is negligance.Planes, trains and ships are in the Code.

I think we are on the same wavelength Jok ? I mentioned neglect in my post ; if there was no neglect then I don't think they would be involved . Neglect would amount to a criminal charge being laid would it not ?



Derek

AncientBrit
18th March 2008, 08:27
The RCMP are involved in any incident that causes the loss of life. When the TSB began their inquiry, the RCMP file went on HOLD.
The TSB is tasked with finding out why the accident happened and with adjusting regulations to ensure, that the possibility of a similar incident are minimized. It does not apportion blame, that falls to the RCMP and the courts.
Once their inquiry is completed and the report published, the RCMP file is taken from HOLD status and the findings of the TSB are included in the search for evidence of neglect causing death.
We do not have "The Fifth amendment" in Canada and I am sure that if those folks continue their silent ways, the judge will have them sitting in the slammer for contempt of court until they wise-up.
AB

JoK
18th March 2008, 13:10
I think we are on the same wavelength Jok ? I mentioned neglect in my post ; if there was no neglect then I don't think they would be involved . Neglect would amount to a criminal charge being laid would it not ?



Derek

LOL, we are on the same wavelength.
I have been told that the best inquiry would be a Coroners Inquest, they have broader authority.
I also have been told that all the goodies that BCFC went to Court to get back from TSB, are all now available for the trial, where if TSB still had them, they would not be available.
I do know that I sooner be an interested bystander, then involved, in all of this!

mclean
22nd March 2008, 19:05
Today is the second anniversary of the grounding and susequent sinking of The Queen of the North. It is also the last day that any party can pursue a lawsuit. As of today there are seven lawsuits pending against BC Ferries the 4th.Mate and others. Hopefully some questions may be answered. Colin

Derek Roger
22nd March 2008, 19:35
Last night on CBC ; the show Canadian Air Farce did a skit on the affair on the bridge with the couple and a R C M P officer and generally took the Mickey out of the investigation .

Derek

JoK
22nd March 2008, 19:55
I missed that!! Of course I am not much of a TV watcher.

Derek Roger
22nd March 2008, 22:58
You didn't miss much Jo ; I almost never watch it ( Generally Rubbish ) . I was
surfing the channels looking for Formula 1 racing and it happened to be on .

They really took the Mickey out of the R C M P which was unfair I think as their deliberations I understand are only now beginning ?


Derek