Sea Shepherd make Ill Advised Remarks

Derek Roger
4th April 2008, 23:29
Have just watched the News in Eastern Canada tonight ; Greenpeace has seen it fit to make some very Ill advised remarks about the sealers from the Isles-De -la -Madeleine .
Note there was a significant loss of life when a boat under tow ( due to Ice Conditions capsized )

The hunt in the Gulf of St Lawrence was abandoned out of respect for the Seamen / Hunters who were lost .

Miller from Greenpeace has used very poor judgement in his remarks and the community on the Madeleine's is very angry during its grief !

A Canadian VP of Greenpeace has resigned over the affair .

Irrespective of ones view over the " Cull " of seals in Canada common decency would dictate that the families of loved ones lost at sea should be respected .

Derek

The web will have the full story tomorrow I'm sure for those who are interested

mclean
4th April 2008, 23:44
Derek, have not seen the news therefore cannot comment on the remarks. Do feel however, that the Canadian icebreaker who was towing the disabled sealer has a lot to answer for as to how the sealer ended up on the ice, ending up with the vessel overturning with resultant los of life. Rgds Colin

sparkie2182
4th April 2008, 23:52
the whole sealer issue is a truly controversial one............

possibly less said the better

condolences to the family of the deceased..........

best regards............

Derek Roger
5th April 2008, 00:01
Derek, have not seen the news therefore cannot comment on the remarks. Do feel however, that the Canadian icebreaker who was towing the disabled sealer has a lot to answer for as to how the sealer ended up on the ice, ending up with the vessel overturning with resultant los of life. Rgds Colin

Colin ;
There will no doubt be an inquiry and we shall have to wait and see .

Notwithstanding that ; A large ice Breaker like the " Louis " even if going very slow would not have much time to go astern and avoid a small vessel being pulled up over an ice sheet and capsizing .


Derek

JoK
5th April 2008, 00:49
Are 4 inquiries enough for you?
The RCMP, TSB, the internal CG process and an external process. There is much more to come out, I would say.


As for the Sea Shepard, after the truly stupid comments Paul Watson has made, then go and tie up in St Pierre...he is lucky the locals only cut the ship lines and told them not to come back.

Derek Roger
5th April 2008, 01:03
Jo ;
I think the CG did a good job . .

Thanks for the correction it was Watson who dribble at the mouth not Miller as I stated .

In retrospect perhaps the procedure in future will be to take all crew on board in the case of Ice and let the boat take the consequences of a tow in such conditions .

In any event not a time to take any " Brownie points " and especially Watson his conduct is not in the spirit of the sea .

Our condolences to the lost crew .
Derek

JoK
5th April 2008, 01:12
And the crew of the breaker. It is a horrible thing for all concerned.

The sealers went to bed, in ice filled waters, on a vessel with a steering issue. We are not talking about children, these were adults who are sea-savvy. Was anyone on their vessel watching the tow line?
The way the news articles read, you would think they were being towed by a speed boat instead of a 83 m icebreaker.
I think the most telling comment was made by one of the survivors: "You are suppose to be safe with the CG" It is like they were betrayed.

Derek, Paul Watson has been absolutely disgusting. He had a great thing going until the CG accident, then all of the media attention was off of his money making venture. So what happens next? He claims he is rammed by another CG icebreaker. What an asshat.

Keltic Star
5th April 2008, 05:59
To add to Jok's remarks, our fishermen expect Coast Guard services to be at their beck and call despite the fact that they use every trick in the book to avoid the expense of having a seaworthy vessel in the first place. Bear in mind that these fishing boats are operating in heavily ice infested waters without any form of ice strengthening to the hull, props, shafts or rudders.

A steering problem was not an emergency requiring a tow from a large icebreaker. It is not uncommon practice to call for assistance without actually declaring a Mayday. Once there is a Coastguard ship on scene it's not going to go away, so one might as well use it to resolve the problem rather than pay for commercial services. As for leaving the boat while under tow, not likely, some fellow fisherman might claim salvage rights.

No Canadian vessel under 15 tons measurement is required to be built to any ship safety standard or undergo any form of annual inspection. Legislation imposing construction, stability and inspection rules proposed by Transport Canada are shelved by successive governments in the quest for fishing industry votes.

Up until quite recently when measurment surveyors were instructed to take photographs during the survey, it was not uncommon practice to "pop' a hull extension piece into the boat before the ink was dry on the tonnage certificate.

New tonnage measurement rules introduced last year are a first victory in the quest for safety, however they only apply to new construction. In Atlantic Canada that leaves around three to four thousand existing fishing boats in the operational fleet, a good portion of which are disasters waiting to happen.

The new tonnage rules will eliminate the majority of new buildings from measuring under 15 tons, thus requiring them to be built from Coast Guard approved plans, under CG building surveys and annual inspections. However, Coast Guard will still have to give considerable leeway until the accompanying construction regulations become effective in law and I'm not putting my money on that happening any time soon.

My thoughts and sympathy go out to the families involved in this tragic accident and I further wish the Master and crew of the C.C.G.S "William Alexander" the strength to endure the upcoming inquiries and finger pointing that will be inevitable from fishermen, uneducated media and political hacks jumping on the band wagon.

It beats me why the biggest law firm in Canada vis. the Canadian government, does not have a fifty page indemnity document ready to be signed before a tow is performed.

JoK
5th April 2008, 11:23
You see with a clear eye Keltic Star
Your comments regarding plans meeting CG requirements iare not quite correct. It is Transport Canada requirements (TCMSB). That was why CG was spun off from Transport Canada into the DFO umbrella. TC is now a regulatory body only, not an operator. This appears to have been the start of a huge decline for CG.
I don't understand the mentality of our regulatory bodies these days. There are laws and regulations-meet them or tie the boat up. If you are seen at sea you will be fined. But it is so convoluted, then the RCMP has to get involved and if they don't treat it like the crime it is, then the person involved gets off scot free. After all the Mounties have terrorists and murderers to chase.Then again maybe it all can be explained by the AtomicEnergy Fiasco where there was gross political interference.
Anyways from the outside looking in, it is like the Federal Government is patting little heads and saying, there there my good man, we were only jesting when we said your FV must met minimal requirement.Then add to this DFO appears not to require any standard for boats that are sealing. Here's the licence and have a good day
Maybe the results of all of this will give the needed push to move things along.
It is disgraceful that the crew of the ship are being portrayed as incompetant, but if you follow the so-called media "reporting" in this area it has been going on for several years. Organizational chaos does not make for professional incompetence.

Keltic star, you can correct any of my comments regarding the RCMP. It may be that I am confused on that specific point. I seemed to be confused a lot these days...is it age???

Gavin Gait
5th April 2008, 11:24
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2008/04/04/stpierre-watson.html?ref=rss&loomia_si=t0:a3:g2:r1:c0.0372058
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/04/04/sealer-search.html

Looks like Mr Watson needs to have his boat shoved where the sun don't shine sideways !!!!

Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the Seal hunt no one should make statements like his when men have lost their lives (MAD) (MAD) (MAD) (MAD)

JoK
5th April 2008, 13:57
Watson is a money grabbing mouthpiece with no regard for life.
Why he is still walking free is beyond me. He has been kicked out of more then one town.
Several years ago the hotel he was staying in was surrounded and he was escorted to the airport. Another time he was not allowed out of the chopper he was in. He does not like Newfoundlanders because they show him the door.

Keltic Star
6th April 2008, 03:03
You see with a clear eye Keltic Star
Your comments regarding plans meeting CG requirements iare not quite correct. It is Transport Canada requirements (TCMSB). That was why CG was spun off from Transport Canada into the DFO umbrella. TC is now a regulatory body only, not an operator. This appears to have been the start of a huge decline for CG. ..................

................
Maybe the results of all of this will give the needed push to move things along.
It is disgraceful that the crew of the ship are being portrayed as incompetant, but if you follow the so-called media "reporting" in this area it has been going on for several years. Organizational chaos does not make for professional incompetence.

Keltic star, you can correct any of my comments regarding the RCMP. It may be that I am confused on that specific point. I seemed to be confused a lot these days...is it age???

Apologies for not clarifying the distinction between the agencies, I still consider Transport Canada and Coast Guard to be one and the same....and that's my age and bloody mindedness showing!

Don't hold your breath waiting for this incident to change things, the only sure result is that the "William Alexander" is big, red, government owned and easy prey.

As for the RCMP, I think their current credibility speaks for itself.

Gavin Gait
6th April 2008, 10:56
Charges laid against Sea Shepherd vessel
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2008/04/05/charges-ship.html?ref=rss&loomia_si=t0:a3:g4:r1:c0

The captain and first officer of a ship being used to protest the annual seal hunt off Canada's east coast are facing charges following a confrontation with a coast guard vessel earlier this week, the federal government announced on Saturday.

The Farley Mowat is owned by the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, an anti-sealing group fronted by controversial environmentalist Paul Watson.

The Canadian Coast Guard claims the Farley Mowat deliberately tried to run into one of its vessels off the coast of Cape Breton.

The Sea Shepherd Society is claiming the exact opposite.

The two men, captain Alexander Cornelissen and first officer Peter Hammarstedt, have been charged with approaching within one half nautical mile of the seal hunt.

Cornelissen is also facing a charge of obstructing a fisheries officer.

Canada's fisheries minister, Loyola Hearn, said he expects the men to be prosecuted to the fullest extent.

'Government is committed to protecting the safety and security of sealers,' Fisheries Minister Loyola Hearn said Saturday.'Government is committed to protecting the safety and security of sealers,' Fisheries Minister Loyola Hearn said Saturday.

Hearn said it's government's job to protect the sealers and to make sure those who try to interfere with the hunt are impeded.

If convicted, Cornelissen and Hammarstedt could face up to $100,000 in fines and a year in prison.

In what has been a tempestuous week for the Sea Shepherd Society and its vessel, the Farley Mowat also ran into trouble on Friday in the French islands of Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, near Newfoundland.

Fishermen on Saint-Pierre cut the vessel's mooring lines and ran it out of port in response to disparaging comments Watson made about several seal hunters who died last weekend when their boat capsized as it was being towed off the coast of Cape Breton.

JoK
6th April 2008, 11:43
One could only hope, Keltic Star that things will get better. .

This is good news about the Farley Mowat, I am sure they are stringing barb wire along the deck as I type. The scarey thing is that the idealists onboard truly think that they are in the right and that makes them unpredictable.
To arrest them, the CG has to go alongside and RCMP board. Very dangerous.

Gavin Gait
6th April 2008, 11:44
They might do the one thing this organisation is renowned for JoK they may well scuttle the Farley Mowat and do so deliberately in a shipping channel. It would not be the first time that these bunch of pirates have done that , so much for being "pro-environment" !!!!

Papa Bear
6th April 2008, 20:59
What you say Davie could be true. There is nothing more illogical than an idealist. The only thing you can guarantee is that they will make trouble. A number of years ago, Watson and company deserted their ship in Ucluelet harbour. Ex british side trawler, don't know name, and the locals were left to look after the ship until it was finally removed. Watson had left earlier, I passed him on the highway. Mercedes and three piece suit if I remember correctly. Should have run him off the road. What I really wonder about is where all the money comes from to enable him to do all this globetrotting.


John L.(Thumb)

Gavin Gait
6th April 2008, 21:03
I can't put on here what I personally feel about the Sea Shepherd organisation and its supporters as Steve would have to ban me but needless to say I , personally , do not think that they are interested in the environment at all just personal gain and getting their faces onto TV !!!

Derek Roger
6th April 2008, 21:34
I agree with your comments Davie . I have hunted and fished all my life and will not stop now ; I am however selective and only take what is for the pot !.

I respect other points of view and people who write to the papers etc. with their points of view and have every right to do so ( and I do respect them for their effort and tenacity )


There are others who make a "Very good living out of taking issue with things that will get them Money "

I have no respect for them at all and wonder why they don't put their efforts into humanitarian causes .

I suspect very few of the money grab clan actually care a damn about the so called issue they are involved in .

Although I am a hunter I have spent this winter feeding and helping a deer with a broken hoof who would have other wise died . He / she is doing well and now able to use the leg .

The fact remains that Culls are necessary as are controls on fishing ( as Canada found to its regret with the over fishing of Cod ; Mind you there was a lot of "Poaching to from other countries " )


Regards Derek

JoK
6th April 2008, 21:41
What I really wonder about is where all the money comes from to enable him to do all this globetrotting.

It is all the little old ladies hitting the contribute button on his site after seeing the crying seals in Eastern Canada(Cloud)

Derek Roger
6th April 2008, 22:24
And others Jo ; on their way to Mc Donalds or the church hall for a Turkey Dinner .

These outfits always go for the vulnerable ; usually getting kids involved who then influence the parents .


This thread is getting a bit off course ; lets watch the news and see what develops .
Derek

JoK
6th April 2008, 22:41
I went to the Sea Shepard site and had a look at the video of the "collision"
It is very apparent the icebreaker is going astern in a couple of shots.


maybe CG should charge them for their paint job.

awateah2
7th April 2008, 00:12
The young fellow that died on the L'Acadienne, Marc Andre Deraspe, was a promising Hockey Player for our local team, Campbellton Tigers and after a very successful season last year went back to sea to earn money to continue his sporting career. His team mates were proud to be pallbearers at his funeral yesterday. R.I.P.

mclean
7th April 2008, 01:38
It is all the little old ladies hitting the contribute button on his site after seeing the crying seals in Eastern Canada(Cloud)

Personally,I feel that the anyone who is not moved by the sight of these creatures being slaughtered by the means in which they are, should be ashamed. You obviously feel OK with this?

AncientBrit
7th April 2008, 08:11
Personally,I feel that the anyone who is not moved by the sight of these creatures being slaughtered by the means in which they are, should be ashamed. You obviously feel OK with this?

As long as you promise to feel sorry for the chickens that live in deplorable conditions to provide your supermarket with eggs. Take a side trip to a bacon breeding hog farm, go to the stock yards and watch the animals peacefully making their way to the killing floor.
They may not have fluffy white fur and big pathetic eyes, but their road to your meat counter is just as sad and frightening for them as it is for the seals.
Unless you are a strict vegan, I suggest you refrain from striding the "Holier than thou" path.
By all means tell us what you feel if you must, but dont tell me or anyone else that we should be ashamed because we dont feel as you do about this.
AB

JoK
7th April 2008, 09:28
Personally,I feel that the anyone who is not moved by the sight of these creatures being slaughtered by the means in which they are, should be ashamed. You obviously feel OK with this?

Since I actually been there-yes.

Culls are not neccesarily pretty but neccesary, especially since we have been so busily screwing up the ecosystem.

BUT, BUT what I am really against is that lying scum sucker Paul Watson.

So back the the topic, lets see if his ship gets arrested today.

mclean
7th April 2008, 15:46
AB, I do not know where you get off with your comment "Holier Than Thou". I simply made a statement which I stand-by, and would repeat again to anyone including yourself. JoK, for the record, in no way,shape or form,do I agree with the recent remarks made by Mr.Watson.

AncientBrit
7th April 2008, 16:51
Would suggest you read the last para of my posting again. I thought it adequately explained "where I got off".
AB

Derek Roger
7th April 2008, 19:53
The young fellow that died on the L'Acadienne, Marc Andre Deraspe, was a promising Hockey Player for our local team, Campbellton Tigers and after a very successful season last year went back to sea to earn money to continue his sporting career. His team mates were proud to be pallbearers at his funeral yesterday. R.I.P.

The funeral was covered extensively in the Telegraph Journal today ; his team mates did a good job on a very sad occasion .
Derek

benjidog
7th April 2008, 20:21
I don't think anyone on this thread has supported Paul Watson's ill-advised remarks.

Please can we have some decorum; we are referring to people who have lost their lives and the impact this will have on their families.

Have a debate about seal culls if you want but, with respect, this thread is not the place for it.

Brian

JoK
12th April 2008, 20:55
Well, the Canadian Government stopped fooling around. The Farley Mowat was boarded today and two arrested..presumably the Captain and First Mate.
Must be 25 years since this has happened last.

Gavin Gait
12th April 2008, 21:03
Fingers crossed the Farley Mowat will be impounded and scrapped too thanks for the update JoK(Thumb)

JoK
12th April 2008, 21:46
Apparently the Farley Mowat broke ice too close to men on the ice, causing it to crack under them. Then it was very close to their boats. Thhere are clear laws against this type of actions which is why it was boarded.

Santos
12th April 2008, 21:50
Sea Shepherd News are screaming blue murder here (http://www.seashepherd.org/news/media_080412_1.html)

Farley Mowat --a Dutch Yacht indeed (Jester)

Chris.

JoK
12th April 2008, 22:26
OMG, that is hysterical! He has magically decreased Canadian waters from the 200 mile limit to 12.
Attacked by CG Officers! Watson has been through this drill so many times, he KNOWS that whoever went on the ship wasn't CG. It was most likely the Mounties.
As for the condition of the crew, they were probably fed better then they have been for weeks and had the first hot shower in days.

For everyone's info, the only firearms carried on a Canadian CG ship and only the icebreakers at that is a shotgun or rifle for polar bear watch duties in the Arctic. It is usually disassembled most of the time.

Derek Roger
13th April 2008, 01:50
OMG, that is hysterical! He has magically decreased Canadian waters from the 200 mile limit to 12.
Attacked by CG Officers! Watson has been through this drill so many times, he KNOWS that whoever went on the ship wasn't CG. It was most likely the Mounties.
As for the condition of the crew, they were probably fed better then they have been for weeks and had the first hot shower in days.

For everyone's info, the only firearms carried on a Canadian CG ship and only the icebreakers at that is a shotgun or rifle for polar bear watch duties in the Arctic. It is usually disassembled most of the time.

Everyone knows its a 200 mile limit ! What an Idiot ; I expect he is getting what he wants anyway and that is Publicity .

Has the Newfoundland Cull started yet ? I expect Watson is really Pissed off that he has lost the ship and wont be able to irritate the Newfies . Plenty of cash so it will be helicopters again . Air Force on stand bye I hope .

Derek

hughesy
13th April 2008, 03:27
I think it was about 1983, ( the same time the Tall Ships came to Nova Scotia from bermuda)
I was wandering about the quays in Halifax, checking out all the ships.
I must mention I had a few scoops like, and all was well with the world. When I came across this trawler, all the deck gear had been stripped of it, and it was painted black from stem to stern, I mean everything was black (never seen owt like it!). Your could still see the name under all this black paint, turned out to be the "ST GILES" out of Hull, I'd seen this vessel in fish dock back home a few times, and it was kind of a shock like?

Any how I spots this quare looking gadgee, walking about the deck, so I jumped from the quay aboard of her (it kinda spooked him, it was a fair jump). So I got a yarn bent on with this young lad ( he was about 21, I was 30 at the time).

I asked him if he was in the Cavalry or what his Mam was using to cut the bread back home, cos he had this huge deck knife hanging off his belt?, needless to say he did'nt see the humour in that.
So we got to yarning, I asked how long he'd been aboard this vessel. He told me he'd just recently joined her, as she had been impounded, for impeding the Seal Cull.
So I tried to tell the history of were this vessel came from, but this kid did'nt
hardly know were the UK was, let alone, a relatively small place like Hull?
He was from California, and told me he was trying his best to "save the planet
and all the creatures which roamed about on it, plus them that swam in its oceans and flew in its skies".
I said "You know thats fine, but some people do not have the options you have, to make their living?
"That cull affects the fishing and therefore affects the lives of a whole bunch of people in the fishing industry" Which has been round here and Newfoundland for a long time.
He told me he'd not even been out on the Oggin yet, "I said really, your in for a treat round here China!""The've got the world's largest Fog making factory out there, and it always fires up on crew change days, plus they have waves,
they make in Norway and send em across the Atlantic, and by the time they reach here, they just want to knock 10 bells of sh-te, outta ya!" "There as big as appartment blocks, and moving as fast as a Semi truck on the Highway"

He was looking at me a bit weird by this time. "but I'll tell you china, if you get in trouble out there, those men would be the first to put themselves out, to try and help you get back home safe like!.

Anyway I said "I'm a bit offended, in what you have done to this vessel, becuase me old mate "you would'nt get to the bus stop back home, to get aboard of her when she was fishing" I told him that the men who worked aboard of her "Nuttin and Guttin" as they say and trying to get"The Lillian Gish" aboard of her,
get back to Hull safe and sound, see their families have a few bevvies, and go back again,to them cold Godfosaken places, and do it all over again!.
In my humble opinion those fisherman was due a huge amount of respect, for the way they earn their daily bread?

Anyway I told him take care and asked him "Do me a favour, give a little respect to these so called "bad guys" your trying to impede in earning their
living."

Don't know if he saw my point or not, but it sure was weird seeing that Hull trawler black as the Hobbs of hell I tell ya!
Got back on the quay, told him ta rah!. Headed off for a few bevvies (as it was my trip off a rig I was on in Nova Scotia)

Theres a juxaposition for ya?, "middle class kid from USA, California, meets drunken sparkie from Hessle road Hull, giving it big licks to him about the fishing industry and how "The Seal Cull, affects peoples lives and ability to make a living for themselves".

Me heart goes out to those men who where lost in this present incident, (safely Anchored) and my condolances to their familes.

(sorry for rambling on with this yarn)

All the best
HUghesy

JoK
13th April 2008, 09:55
Great story Hughesy. Bet that the kid never "got it" since he was from the land of plenty.
A couple of years after this , Watson picked up a retired CG ship and painted her out black. It was strange to look across the harbour and see her. Of course with the black, you can't see the rust bleeding.

Derek, I think that the rest of the cull started the weekend. The ice is very heavy along the sheerline in the Strait of Belle Isle, so it will be difficult for the small boats to leave harbour.