Sparkies' secret language.

Peter Fielding
15th May 2008, 00:16
We have a fair number of sparkies and ex-sparkies on the site, and from time to time, they lapse into their esoteric alphabetic codes. I'm sure there's no sinister intent in this, so would it be considered intrusive to ask for a list of commonly-used codes to be posted to enable the rest of us to follow the thread. Or am I just being a nosy bugger?

K urgess
15th May 2008, 01:07
DO you mean the Q codes or the shorthand we sometimes use?
The Q codes are listed at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_code but these are mostly the modern ones and the amateur ones.
The shorthand is exactly the same as "speedwriting" which is exactly the same as text messaging on a mobile phone.
A few odd things like OM = Old Man, 73s for luck, etc.

Cheers
Kris

Peter Fielding
15th May 2008, 08:38
Thanks for the response, Marconi Sahib. I was referring to the mysterious Q-codes. No doubt the link you gave will reveal all.

King Ratt
15th May 2008, 09:05
Some more for you Peter.

73 ....Best wishes

88 ....Love and Kisses

OM ..Old man (used to address the distant operator even if he was 18 years old!

YL ...Female equivalent of OM (Young Lady)

XYL . Mrs (Ex Young Lady)

Hi Hi..Laughter (Now sent by texters as LOL)

Keckers
18th May 2008, 09:49
Some more for you Peter.

73 ....Best wishes

88 ....Love and Kisses

OM ..Old man (used to address the distant operator even if he was 18 years old!

YL ...Female equivalent of OM (Young Lady)

XYL . Mrs (Ex Young Lady)

Hi Hi..Laughter (Now sent by texters as LOL)

I remember TUSU - as: thank you - see you.

King Ratt
18th May 2008, 11:13
Keckers..you've reminded me of another one -AS- (sent with the two letters run together) ..meaning Wait. eg AS 5 (wait five minutes) or AS tic.

niggle
18th May 2008, 12:01
how about "thank you see you" expressed in morse as -tusu-

Niggle

trotterdotpom
18th May 2008, 13:49
No 9 - Doctor's orders.

13 - Lucky for some.

22 - Two little ducks.

88 - Two fat ladies.

John T.

mikeg
18th May 2008, 15:39
No 9 - Doctor's orders.

13 - Lucky for some.

22 - Two little ducks.

88 - Two fat ladies.

John T.

Mixed metaphores, 88 Love & Kissses from Two fat ladies = 13 (Jester)

GeeMcDee
18th May 2008, 16:45
What about that ever-so useful Q-code which we got in every weekly test at Radio College in Manchester - never heard it used since, but it's chiselled into my memory bank;-

QUQ? Shall I train my searchlight nearly vertical on a cloud, occulting if possible, and if the aircraft is seen, deflect the beam up-wind on the water or land, to facilitate your landing?

Regards
Gary
---------------------------
Semper rectus, semper agilis

jaydeeare
19th May 2008, 00:08
The only one I can remember from my College days is QRM - I am being interfered with (the way I remember it it was M - Molested).

Strange how somethings stick in the mind after decades without ever using it.

athinai
19th May 2008, 00:23
Peter OM

mni tks fer ur post peter ur not a nosi bugger atal
vy bst 73 to u es urs es 88 2 ur lass
fer nw bi bi es hpe cuagn
tu gn ar va

trotterdotpom
19th May 2008, 00:50
The only one I can remember from my College days is QRM - I am being interfered with (the way I remember it it was M - Molested).

Strange how somethings stick in the mind after decades without ever using it.

Similarly, QRQ? - Can you send faster? (remembered by "Quicker) and QSQ? (Do you have a doctor on board? (remembered by "Quack"). I think I've got them the right way round.

All that stuff is stuck in my head too, that's why there is no room for me to know where I put my watch weeks ago! QTR? anybody - "What is the exact time?"

John T.

K urgess
19th May 2008, 19:31
While doing some Googling on another subject I came across this.


P/O PRUNE CATCHES A CODE

P/O Prune went into town;
Of beer he had his fill;
So when they asked him “QBA?”
He answered sadly “NIL”,

His comrades sat him at the bar;
“Now “QAH?” They said,
But ere he got a QFE,
He climbed a bit instead.

He stood and shouted “QVG
And QTH precarious”
Then QFO’d upon the floor,
His language mixed and various.

Oh QFR,” Prune said. I guess
I QGH’d too fast
Control! – I’m in a ruddy mess!
A QGX please! Blast!

He then turned to the Bar Maid
Saying, “QDR my dear?”
She answered rather snappily
“That QFT’s right here!”

The QTR is “time” at last,
So QAA at mess?
“You seem to me, Prune, almost tight:
So QAK unless.”

“You wish to QAL in jug
And be a most peculiar mug.
So get your QDM for home;
Allow for drift and do not roam.”

From TEE EMM September 1941. (Wartime RAF Training Manual)

Translation for the non radio Q codes when I find my copy of the code of signals.[=P]

GeeMcDee
19th May 2008, 20:24
Nice one Marconi Sahib, like it.

Then there's always: 'She was only the Sparkies' daughter, and she di-dit 'cos her Da-dah-di-dit

Regards
Gary
---------------------------
Semper rectus, semper agilis

R651400
21st May 2008, 18:41
What's not often recognised is the French connection.

de - from

OM - old man but also Homme

AS - wait - attends svp

AR - Au revoir

There has always been controversy over the origins of LID meaning poor operator. Possibly.... L'idiot.

K urgess
21st May 2008, 18:54
Don't forget MAYDAY = m'aidé.

Or so they told us at college. [=P]

Shipbuilder
21st May 2008, 20:09
I can't help thinking that Spark's secret language was nothing more than morse code. In 31 years, I sailed in 19 ships & several times it was with captains who claimed to know morse code with a far greater profficiency that I did & yet I could tell by their blank stares when I was "on the air" that this was simply not true. I wonder why some of them needed to do this? - surely as Masters under God it was unnecessary? I am not talking about tyrants, but generally decent types with whom I got on very well.
One of them did give me a scare though. It was aboard a Union-Castle liner & the captain in question died suddenly one dark calm night off the island of St. Helena. He was a true gentleman & we got on famously - he claimed to be an expert in morse. The night after the burial at sea, I was tuning in to Portishead to pick up some traffic & as I let go of the dial for an instant, the message in very clear morse came in loud & clear "sorry I didn't have time to say cheerio!" gave me quite a start, but it was only a genuine message going out to another ship!
Bob

hughesy
21st May 2008, 21:00
Don't forget MAYDAY = m'aidé.

Or so they told us at college. [=P]


Was'nt PAN PAN PAN french and whatever the safety was SECUREITE (not sure of the spelling now)

all the best
Hughesy

K urgess
21st May 2008, 21:16
Securité = Safety as in TTT. Definitely French but I'm not sure about Pan.

Morse was at least a semi-secret language, or else why would there be screams of "SPAAAAARKS" from the bridge when a ship had been called on the lamp and they'd actually replied much to the OODs dismay. [=P]

Mimcoman
21st May 2008, 22:18
I found that the scream "Spaaaaarrrkkksss" usually meant that I'd forgotten that Sports Report was on again and tried to call GKG on 12 MHz.

Ron Stringer
21st May 2008, 22:25
Securité = Safety as in TTT. Definitely French but I'm not sure about Pan.

Also French, Kris. Panne is French for a breakdown.

K urgess
21st May 2008, 22:42
Thanks, Ron.
Had to be something but I couldn't think of the word.
Cheers (Thumb)
Kris

gwzm
21st May 2008, 23:17
It's commonly believed that "LID" for a poor operator comes from the early days of landline morse which which was copied on a sounder. These were often placed in a resonator box to make them louder but that only increased the racket in a busy telegraph office so the new operators used to put a tobacco tin or its lid in the resonator so that that the sound was different and therefore easier to copy. I believe they also used the expression "plug" operator because it was a tobacco tin that was usually used. I stand open to correction if we have any old time landline telegraph operators on board who actually had landline experience.

All the best,

John/gwzm

jaydeeare
22nd May 2008, 00:11
Part of my Navigation Cadet course was to learn to send and receive morse on a lamp, well at College it was a small light fitted in a box just below the ceiling.

A classmate sat in front writing down the letters I spoke out. Then it was turn around where I would write down his letters.

Learning morse on this course helped me a great deal when I went on my Sparks course.

R651400
22nd May 2008, 08:26
Well done on the French R/T distress and urgency calls, completely forgot about them.
This morning's paper "Panne seche dans les stations."
Literally.. "Petrol stations broken down and dry," due to fishermen's blockade at our local refinery.

Tai Pan
22nd May 2008, 09:54
Pan was these same as XXX

pippin
22nd May 2008, 11:02
Interesting thoughts on the derivation of PAN (as in XXX).

I had always assumed that it came from the Greek pan meaning all. As in Pan-American = all-America.

I like panne even better!

jaydeeare
22nd May 2008, 13:25
Pan the same as kiss kiss kiss??? NAAAAHHHH!!! I don't believe it! LOL!! (Jester) (Jester) (Jester)

trotterdotpom
22nd May 2008, 13:48
I thought it was short for "The sh*t has hit the pan"!

John T.

M29
22nd May 2008, 15:48
Hi
Can anyone remember that story that circulated around the radio colleges based on electrical teminonlogy, I remember a bit of it::

"police are searching for eddy current, who is wanted for the induction of a 16mH coil. He escaped from a Leclanche Cell and was last seen driving over a wheastone bridge on a megacycle".............Anyone got a copy of it?

Alan

mikeg
22nd May 2008, 17:49
Interesting thoughts on the derivation of PAN (as in XXX).

I had always assumed that it came from the Greek pan meaning all. As in Pan-American = all-America.

I like panne even better!

Acccording to the Web Babelfish translation service from French to English the word panne means breakdown.
I'm presently studying for the FRTOL aviation R/T licence and am also using Pan messages in my training. There are obviously a lot more R/T procedures in ATC working than I ever used for R/T at sea. In fact I have to somehow loose some of the remembered seagoing R/T procedures inbuilt in the subconscious..not easy (?HUH)

G4UMW
23rd May 2008, 14:10
QLF - Try sending with your left foot

QFO - Go away!

All unofficial, of course :D

charles henry
23rd May 2008, 20:59
Thanks for the response, Marconi Sahib. I was referring to the mysterious Q-codes. No doubt the link you gave will reveal all.

Just had to add that Where Q codes were used in maritime, aircraft, military and ham, usage there were also Z codes for use in high speed (Up to 300 wpm morse commercial point to point circuits) such as ZST meaning, send your slips twice (messages were punched in tapes called slips )and a five letter code with words such as "Dadro" each of which meant a specific message, Back when I was at sea one could send dah dah dih dih dah dah which was a comma but if you lengthed the dahs to daaaaah daaaah dih did daaaah daaaaah it meant, "you bloody fool"

As you can see it all quite simple, surprised you asked regards chas (Pint)

charles henry
23rd May 2008, 21:23
No 9 - Doctor's orders.

13 - Lucky for some.

22 - Two little ducks.

88 - Two fat ladies.

John T.


Hey John your cheating, thats not sparks chatter its from Tombolo and you
missed Kelley's Eye (Never mind the response) regards chas(Pint)

trotterdotpom
24th May 2008, 02:21
Hey John your cheating, thats not sparks chatter its from Tombolo and you
missed Kelley's Eye (Never mind the response) regards chas(Pint)

Had to leave something for someone to pick up Chas!

I sailed with a Mate who always called the Bingo and his best lines were: "1 and 6, 16 - the age I like 'em" and "4 and 6, 46 - the age I get 'em!"

John T.

John Ringrose
4th June 2008, 15:35
4q

4q2

Gtf

Buoy
30th January 2009, 13:08
Just come across this thread. I remember "QRLM = I am busy being interfered with" and also "QSD TOF" QSD = Your keying is defective; TOF = Try Other Foot !!

DaiSparks
31st January 2009, 01:24
Part of my Navigation Cadet course was to learn to send and receive morse on a lamp, well at College it was a small light fitted in a box just below the ceiling.

A classmate sat in front writing down the letters I spoke out. Then it was turn around where I would write down his letters.

Learning morse on this course helped me a great deal when I went on my Sparks course.
(K)
This reminds me when I had to 'teach' a 2nd Mate 'faster Lamp Morse' on one trip (Sara Lupe), his wife ended up as the better reader, but he passed on his return to college.

geobro
1st February 2009, 00:23
A short lived one back in 1947. Aroung the Sub-Continent, when India was getting Independence, it was the practice for Indian coast station operators to sign off with JH (Jai Hind ...India for Ever) We would reply FH

Naytikos
2nd February 2009, 05:48
There are some differences bn (between) Ham and seagoing abbreviations: At sea dah dah dit dit dah dah (comma) sent slowly meant 'Ha Ha' the slower it was sent indicating the degree of funniness (or sarcasm), whereas hams use Hi Hi (or He He) instead;
Hams, for some unexplained reason, often use KN (left-hand parenthesis) instead of just K;
Hams use QRA to mean a numerical map reference of their QTH instead of their name;
At sea 'and' would be abbreviated to ET, but Hams use ES (dunno why);

There are others which I 'do not immediately recall'.

Everyone who ever worked on 5-ton will be familiar with:

dit dit-dah dit-dit-dah
BTH

In Greek, BTH is AMF

Most will remember when the QO series came in and GKA started using QOT instead of QRY. I was just one of many who complained and, amazingly enough, someone listened and they reverted back to QRY. The only instance I know of where customer opinion meant something!

Continuing with the greek abbreviations: On common name-days (Giannis - John, or Andreas - Andrew) there could be 20 or 30 private QTCs to send/receive; at Christmas and Easter, perhaps 100 - 200 (assuming the ship to have 20-30 total crew). The greetings are easily standardised so one could, after waiting a couple of hours for QRY 50 at SVA, abbreviate the texts thus:

=Giannis Papadopoulos Akti Miaouli 21 Piraeus=

X P=

Panos+

X P : Chronia Polla - literally 'Many Years' used for name-days and birthdays;

K P: Kalo Pascha - Happy Easter

X A: Christos Anesthi - Christ is risen

K X: Kala Christougena - Happy Christmas

E K X: Eytichismenos O kainourgious chronos - Happy New Year

This idea was to always standardise the greeting to one of these, or similar, and SVA would get quite upset if you tried to vary or send the full text. Next QSO would probably be QRY 150!

trotterdotpom
2nd February 2009, 06:44
Geobro: "....A short lived one back in 1947. Aroung the Sub-Continent, when India was getting Independence, it was the practice for Indian coast station operators to sign off with JH (Jai Hind ...India for Ever) We would reply FH"

Good one - might try it with one of those pesky call centres sometime!

Naytikos: "....Everyone who ever worked on 5-ton will be familiar with:

dit dit-dah dit-dit-dah
BTH...."

Huh? Not in my handbook.

John T.

R651400
2nd February 2009, 08:24
kn in amateur jargon is go ahead the station I'm wkg and no one else. Used in pileups by a rare call when being chased by a lot of other stations.
bth.. both as in QSY 512... reply... up bth
hw...how is another marine abbrv that I never hear on the amateur bands.
sk...end of contact instead of va
sk I always relate to silent key and we all know what that means!!

Roger Bentley
2nd February 2009, 10:34
A short lived one back in 1947. Aroung the Sub-Continent, when India was getting Independence, it was the practice for Indian coast station operators to sign off with JH (Jai Hind ...India for Ever) We would reply FH

Don't forget the other side of partition ships using PZ for Pakistan Zindabad

Cheers, Roger

gwzm
2nd February 2009, 15:16
Re. the question about amateur use of HI HI for laughter and ES for and:

these are a throwback to the old American landline morse where the letter "O" was sent as . . so .... . . .... . . meant "ho ho" for laughter and ES sent as . ... was the symbol for "&" or ampersand.

= 73 es BV de gwzm +

R651400
2nd February 2009, 19:44
A small digression on #44 PZ and #40 JH.
Ships call sign PZJH.
Without referring to your personal library or the internet what would be the port of registry?

trotterdotpom
3rd February 2009, 01:04
Jakarta?

John T.

R651400
3rd February 2009, 07:23
Good try t.p but sorry no!

Tai Pan
3rd February 2009, 12:28
Peramaribo

R651400
3rd February 2009, 12:47
Peramaribo Paramaribo (Dutch) Surinam. VG + tick JG well done!

Tai Pan
3rd February 2009, 13:19
I cheated

R651400
3rd February 2009, 15:48
Hope nobody from ROA reads above. Hon Sec & Treas cheating?
Which reminds I think my sub is overdue!

Tai Pan
3rd February 2009, 16:02
if they are you will have had an email today!. knew it was suriname had to look up the capital.

Dutchy62
7th February 2009, 03:10
QLF - Try sending with your left foot

QFO - Go away!

All unofficial, of course :D

Ii believe the full version of QLF is "please send with your left foot as opposed to your right foot with which you are currently sending"

Naytikos
7th February 2009, 06:56
Tks to GWZM for HI HI & ES! One thing less to wonder abt.
When I was doing my ticket the Regs/Morse instructor used to say 'there is only one Morse Code', his point being that the dot-dash keying codes used for alphabets other than the latin one were not really 'morse'. Samuel Morse was American, so did the original code use the characters described by GWZM? In which case my man was wrong and none of us are/were using true 'Morse'!

gwzm
8th February 2009, 00:59
Tks to GWZM for HI HI & ES! One thing less to wonder abt.
When I was doing my ticket the Regs/Morse instructor used to say 'there is only one Morse Code', his point being that the dot-dash keying codes used for alphabets other than the latin one were not really 'morse'. Samuel Morse was American, so did the original code use the characters described by GWZM? In which case my man was wrong and none of us are/were using true 'Morse'!

Hi Naytikos,

American landline or Continental Morse Code was sent over a wire circuit and caused a sounder (just like a relay) to switch over making a "click - clack" sound and the code itself was, essentially, a dot code. When radio came into being about 50 years later reception was by a tone and the Morse Code that we sparkies used came into being. That was based on combinations of dots and dashes and became the International Morse Code.
There were a whole bunch of number codes used on landline morse to make life easier for the telegraphers and a lot of them carried over into amateur use, for example: 73 = My best regards to you Sir, 55 = Best success, 88 = Love and kisses, and a whole lot more.
As another example, what was the letter F in landline Morse became the letter R in International Morse. What had been "AF" for "all finished" on the landline became AR (or +) for "end of message" in International Morse Code.

= 73 es bv de gwzm +

R651400
8th February 2009, 07:37
Nice to see 55 with a less sinister meaning than what I was told ie they resembled the Runic letters SS, yet I do find the most common use of this abbreviation are DL amateurs!
AF I understood to be inverted commas.
SN A preliminary call..

gwzm
8th February 2009, 14:47
Nice to see 55 with a less sinister meaning than what I was told ie they resembled the Runic letters SS, yet I do find the most common use of this abbreviation are DL amateurs!
AF I understood to be inverted commas.
SN A preliminary call..

Hi R651400,

You're right that AF is inverted commas in International Morse. In US landline code the letter F was .-. which became the letter R in International Morse so what had been AF on the landline became AR on radio. I'll have a look for my information with US landline and International codes and post a scan so that you can see the differences and similarities. I'll also post the original code as conceived by Morse (or was it Vail?...... but that's another story!).

73, gwzm

gwzm
8th February 2009, 17:15
Attached are scans showing the original code created by Morse and the later landline Morse Code used in USA/Canada and International Morse Code.

Hope this clarifies the differences.

73

gwzm

BobClay
8th February 2009, 23:58
Just out of interest here are a couple of fascinating sites:

http://www.enigmaco.de/enigma/enigma.swf

You'll need Flash Player installed, but what I like about this simulation is that you can see how the coding links via the rotors and plugs.

If you want something a bit more substantial, you can download a fascinating simulator here:

http://users.telenet.be/d.rijmenants/en/enigmasim.htm

Where someone has gone to a lot of trouble to make it look good as well as perform.

There are more simulators out there if you Google it....

R651400
9th February 2009, 10:50
What's enigma got to do with morse?

BobClay
9th February 2009, 12:22
Nothing. Just thought it might interest someone, and seemed a reasonable thread to put it in.

I shall retire to my study. There will be the sound of a pistol shot, if I miss, I shall commit seppuku and try not to make a mess on the carpet.

(Sad)

R651400
9th February 2009, 12:28
The question was technical Bob.
Thought you might have come up with something like a link to Turing?
Impressed by seppuku! Bloody painful and needs a lot of guts!

Moulder
9th February 2009, 12:43
What's enigma got to do with morse?

Plenty ........ morse was the common method of transmitting the encoded data that was inputted into the Enigma machine.
You needn't make that call to the 'Samaritans' Bob.(Jester)

(Thumb)

BobClay
9th February 2009, 14:55
What is interesting is I daresay some of you went on one of those naval coding courses (about a day or so back in the 70's) which you were supposed to use in the event of war. (You remember, the kit was usually stuffed into the old man's safe some place).

This involved various coding cards and little cardboard windows and such. Presumably the cost of a coding machine like the Enigma, or some modern version of such, was prohibitive to fit on every merchant ship (and maybe a not secure place for it anyway).

It's just that with fairly straight forward software on a modern pc you can achieve much higher levels of secure coding, including a full replication of the Enigma, which was considered secure during World War 2 (as it happens, a not so safe consideration).

I was just a little fascinated by the Enigma when I first read about it, and it all seemed so mysterious, but when you look at the simulators you get a feel for how it works, and realise it's just a very large combination lock, albeit wonderfully thought out.

In the rare coding excercise I did with the old man at sea, I usually got called in to help him out, although I imagine technically, it's solely the old man who should have played with the coding of the messages. Perhaps someone with more experience could offer an opinion.

R651400
9th February 2009, 17:32
Plenty ........ morse was the common method of transmitting the encoded data that was inputted into the Enigma machine. Correction: Enigma was a WWII German cypher machine outputting coded data from plain text which if transmitted by morse was both hopefully intercepted and decoded at Bletchley Park. Agreed it could work in reverse.

King Ratt
9th February 2009, 18:12
NATO produced a machine based on the Enigma known as T/Sec KL-7. This was an off-line encryption machine which became obsolete in the mid 1980s.
A great little machine to operate but quite noisy. The site at http://jproc.ca/crypto/kl7.html is worth a viewing.

KR

Moulder
9th February 2009, 22:14
Correction: Enigma was a WWII German cypher machine outputting coded data from plain text which if transmitted by morse was both hopefully intercepted and decoded at Bletchley Park. Agreed it could work in reverse.


... so there is a connection between Enigma and Morse?

(Thumb)

R651400
10th February 2009, 08:23
#63.. Technically speaking? No connection. You obviously missed the point.

trotterdotpom
10th February 2009, 11:08
I never got to do any "coding" courses. I do recall Miss Moneypenny muttering behind her hand: "He drinks you know....."

Even with my lack of training, I was a raging success with Interflora.

John T.

R651400
10th February 2009, 11:20
t.p Lack of training? I thought you were an expert on west country flora and fauna?

trotterdotpom
10th February 2009, 14:11
I did spend some time at Ashley Down, but found Bristol a bit of a handful.

In the Interflora code there was one really gag-worthy one that dragged on for several lines of sickening garbage: "Over the many miles that separate us...."

Woe betide the customer who said to me: "Just put something appropriate, Sparks."

John T.

Ron Stringer
10th February 2009, 16:08
Do you remember how the Interflora greetings message codes (just 3-figure numbers spelled out e.g. oneonethree) were grouped in blocks of five down the page?

For example

111 Birthday Greetings to you all.
112 A very happy birthday to you. Have a wonderful day.
113 ..... and so on
114
115

116
117
118
119
120

and so on (except that the numbers were spelled out.)

On my girlfriend's birthday I decided to send her some flowers (well we were homeward bound) and selected an appropriate message. Some 50 years later I don't remember the details of the message I chose but for the sake of the story it might have been ''117 Happy Birthday. Many Happy Returns of the Day.''

Well that was the second number in a 5-number block and I made a mental note of it.

I then proceeded to write out the telegram preamble and the rest of the message before inserting the greetings code. Checked in the book, took the second number in the block and wrote it in. Sent off the message to Burnham, job done!

When we arrived in Tilbury a few weeks later, my girlfriend was nowhere to be seen, which was a surprise since she was working as a midwife in Dartford, so I had been confident that she would have wangled her off-duty to get down to the ship. As soon as I could, I got ashore to the phone and called her.

The response was pretty frosty and her first question was. ''Why did you do that? I do not think it was funny and my father was absolutely furious and wanted to know just what was going on. You ruined my birthday with your stupid sense of humour.''

After some time all became clear. Instead of taking the second number from the Birthday block of greetings messages, I had taken the second number from another block entirely.

The message that arrived at the house, with what even the girlfriend had to admit was a gorgeous arrangement of flowers, was ''Congratulations! Delighted with the news. God Bless you both.''

Easy mistake to make.

andysk
10th February 2009, 21:27
Ron, you can't leave it there - was she promoted or demoted ?

Ron Stringer
10th February 2009, 22:23
Promoted to wife. Logged in 42 years last month.

andysk
12th February 2009, 12:10
Congrats Ron, that's quite an achievement !

Makes me feel a bit of a late starter at only 30 years in March - but we only began after I came ashore.