Three MacBraynes ships, 1933

vitalspark
27th July 2008, 19:10
These three pictures were taken by my father on a West Highland holiday in 1933. While there is no doubt as to the identity of the Iona, I would appreciate confirmation as to whether i have identified the Loch Broom and Mountaineer correctly.

Best wishes,
Dave

Bruce Carson
27th July 2008, 20:09
Dave, I would think the second photo is definitely the 'Lochbroom' (I).
Looks like her and, if you blow it up, you can see the waste pipes on either side of the funnel, a feature of that ship.
ex 'City of London' of the Aberdeen Steam Navigation Co.
1871, Iron, John Elder, Govan, 1,139GT, 242' x 31', single screw, 2cyl comp.
Scrapped 1937 at Port Glasgow.
Bruce

vitalspark
27th July 2008, 21:39
Dave, I would think the second photo is definitely the 'Lochbroom' (I).
Looks like her and, if you blow it up, you can see the waste pipes on either side of the funnel, a feature of that ship.
ex 'City of London' of the Aberdeen Steam Navigation Co.
1871, Iron, John Elder, Govan, 1,139GT, 242' x 31', single screw, 2cyl comp.
Scrapped 1937 at Port Glasgow.
Bruce

Bruce,
Thank you for your confirmation re Lochbroom, and the excellent additional information you have provided. My late father spent several holidays in this area in his youth, and I am currently digitally re-photographing his old prints. Many, like these three, stand further investigation. I appreciate your help.
Best wishes,
Dave

JimC
28th July 2008, 19:21
Dave, I would think the second photo is definitely the 'Lochbroom' (I).
Looks like her and, if you blow it up, you can see the waste pipes on either side of the funnel, a feature of that ship.
ex 'City of London' of the Aberdeen Steam Navigation Co.
1871, Iron, John Elder, Govan, 1,139GT, 242' x 31', single screw, 2cyl comp.
Scrapped 1937 at Port Glasgow.
Bruce
Bruce,
You seem to have a source for Elder built ships. I've been trying to trace an ancestor who was in at the beginning of that yard. He was a pal of Elder. His name was Buchanan. Apparently there used to be an old pic in the boardroom of the founder and four lads who built the first ship. Seems they sailed it down to Port Glasgow then got so 'guttered' - they had to get a coach home.
Do you know anything about this or does anyone else out there have a clue?.

Bruce Carson
28th July 2008, 20:36
Hello Jim:
Unfortunately, the only information on John Elder and his yard is what little I have in books and what I am able to find on the internet.
Haven't seen anything so far on a gentleman named Buchanan connected with the yard, but I'll keep it in mind.
It sounds like a fine story and I hope another member has some details of the escapade. I would think that would be quite a trip by road in those days, especially if the passengers were not in good 'trum'.

Best,
Bruce

jimmys
28th July 2008, 21:03
The Buchanan family were connected heavily to Glasgow they were Tobacco Barons. Buchanan Street, Buchanan Bus Station and Buchanan Hotel were named after them. It is likely they were involved in shipbuilding.
I live in Glasgow and excessive sobriety is not associated with the city. There is a good chance the gentlemen got so "bluttered" they had to be assisted home. That is perfecly normal here.

regards
jimmys

JimC
29th July 2008, 18:44
The Buchanan family were connected heavily to Glasgow they were Tobacco Barons. Buchanan Street, Buchanan Bus Station and Buchanan Hotel were named after them. It is likely they were involved in shipbuilding.
I live in Glasgow and excessive sobriety is not associated with the city. There is a good chance the gentlemen got so "bluttered" they had to be assisted home. That is perfecly normal here.

regards
jimmys
Hi Jimmy!

The same mob had another interesting story about the beginning of the American War of Independence. 'Baldy' Buchanan's mother was Margaret Murdoch. Her grandfather and great uncle were John and Thomas Murdoch the last of the Highland flintlock pistol makers. The brothers made two sets of pistols for British officers one of whom was a Major Pitcairn of the Marines. John made his pair. The major was posted to the then colonies and was credited with firing 'the shot that was heard round the world'. It seems he was sent with his men to arrest a group of I think they were called 'minutemen' who were trying to rob an ammunition store at Harper's Ferry. Anyway one thing led to another and Pitcairn let go with old John's pistol. This started the 'stramash' which ended-up as the US of A. A year later Pitcairn was killed at (I think) the battle of Bunker's Hill and his pistols were taken as spoils of war. They were presented to George Washington later on. He left them to a Major General Lafayette in his will. Thomas's pair suffered the same fate. They now reside in the National Museum of Masachusetts. I think I'm right but family stories gang aftimes agley as they say. I had an old aunty who was full of them. Unfortunately I did not write them down so there mostly lost.
Incidentally; Margaret Murdoch's uncle William went to Jamaica and founded the Doune Castle Estate there. He died and left the estate to his slaves before the end of slavery.
I used to have pictures of 'the gentlemen' you refer to - looked more like a bunch of 'tinks'. Old baldy was an Iron Turner whatever that was.
There was also the story of the relatives of President Buchanan. Seems when he died he did not leave a clear will. He had property in Manhatten which included lots of real estate. The NY times had a story about claimants to his estate. I still have a copy of a letter from my uncle Tom Buchanan, sent from the States in the 1930;s asking the family to dig out any proof of ownership - chance would be a fine thing! As you say; the Buchanans 'didn't hide their lights under bushels'!

Cheers!

jimmys
29th July 2008, 20:53
An Iron Turner was one of the old trades associated with engineering on the Clyde. These old trades fitters, patternmakers, blacksmiths, shipwrights, moulders, riveters, platers, draughtsman, millwrights and iron turners were the heart of engineering. Everything now is cloned from them. They started shipbuilding. They are all celebrated in the Trades House in Glasgow. One of your relatives Mr Buchanan was instrumental in its construction. A very famous family. Your relative operated a lathe which machined metal an iron turner.

regards
jimmys

vitalspark
30th July 2008, 00:58
Fascinating stuff about the Buchanans. These days one wonders if the formation of the US of A was such a good thing after all. Think Iraq, think sub-prime mortgages.
But does nobody have any information about the paddle steamer in photo 3?

Regards,
Dave

Bruce Carson
30th July 2008, 02:23
Dave, I took a quick look at the MacBrayne paddlers active in 1933 and I would believe she is the 'Mountaineer' (III), the last paddle steamer built for the Company.
The combination of the boats far aft with an open section below, the bridge behind the funnel, no white painted forward plating, as in the 'Pioneer', was, I think, peculiar to the 'Mountaineer'.

Bruce

JohnBP
30th July 2008, 02:41
Jimmys, thanks so much, I was born and raised in Glasgow, went to Stow College ( marine engineering) there, I had a pal named Bill Buchanan, he claimed that his family were tobacco barons, ship builders, and also claimed that as you say the station, the bus rerminal were named after him,,, we called him a crank.... wonder where he is now... he was apprenticed as an engineer with Clan Line....

JohnBP

vitalspark
30th July 2008, 11:12
Dave, I took a quick look at the MacBrayne paddlers active in 1933 and I would believe she is the 'Mountaineer' (III), the last paddle steamer built for the Company.
The combination of the boats far aft with an open section below, the bridge behind the funnel, no white painted forward plating, as in the 'Pioneer', was, I think, peculiar to the 'Mountaineer'.

Bruce

Bruce, thank you for this confirmation. It isn't the world's best picture, but it's nice to know that I can now list the vessels showm as 'Iona', 'Lochbroom' and 'Mountaineer'.

Best wishes,
Dave

JimC
1st August 2008, 13:30
An Iron Turner was one of the old trades associated with engineering on the Clyde. These old trades fitters, patternmakers, blacksmiths, shipwrights, moulders, riveters, platers, draughtsman, millwrights and iron turners were the heart of engineering. Everything now is cloned from them. They started shipbuilding. They are all celebrated in the Trades House in Glasgow. One of your relatives Mr Buchanan was instrumental in its construction. A very famous family. Your relative operated a lathe which machined metal an iron turner.

regards
jimmys
Hi Jimmy!,

One of the other interesting 'tales' about the iron turner members of the family was that they got the term 'turner' from the way they forged pistol barrels. (Buchanans made them as well - there's an example of both the Murdoch and Buchanan weapons in the new Art Galleries in Glasgow.)
It seemed they use old horse-shoe nails and hot-forged and 'turned' them round a ferrule in the first part of the process. Don't know whether that's true but I do know that forging old nails into chains then forging the chains into rows was a way of making a sword blade. Amazing what you find on this site. intit!