ss Canberra

R58484956
2nd July 2005, 15:01
Interesting clause in sale documents of Canberra which states"Ownership of propellers, boilers,turbo gennys shall not pass until all has been cut up and removed from vessel so that it is not practical to rebuild ship.
It seems P & O did not want anybody else to run her.

Doug Rogers
3rd July 2005, 00:32
They always were very careful when they disposed of vessels, Company tradition to say the least!!.

Paul UK
3rd July 2005, 09:13
Dont know if you were aware that Mike Carr current Captain of Oriana was the Captain who orderded full steam ahead towards the beach.

He took a load of Pictures enroute and also the crew leaving the old lady to her fate.

He also was the last captain with the old Arcadia ( Now Ocean Village)

Paul UK

PS He told me that she was a very tired lady !! (Read)

Gijs
7th July 2005, 19:30
Why a very tired lady?

Paul UK
7th July 2005, 20:43
He said that she was in a very poor state I suppose just old age when he put her on the beach.

As for lady I thought all ships were ladies.

Ps Do you know if it true that Canberra was actually owned by Abbey National, I heard rumours that the Abbey owned all the passenger ships and Nat West the cargo ships in a purchase and lease back deal !!

Paul

Why a very tired lady?

david smith
7th July 2005, 20:59
As a matter of fact a ship is divided for finance purposes into 64 parts to spread the cost. Abbey National may well have had a majority holding - just as mortgagees. Correct me if I am wrong.

Paul UK
7th July 2005, 22:19
I did not know they were split up I had just heard about the finance deal

Paul

Tom Haywood
7th July 2005, 23:05
I often wondered what must go through the mind (& heart) of a Captain of a ship like the Canberra when she is run up on the beach for scrapping. I doubt many do it a second time.

Haywood

fred henderson
7th July 2005, 23:24
Having been involved in the building of a number of modern large landing ships for overseas navies I can confirm that it takes a very special type of naval officer to be a successful landing ship captain, running his ship regularly onto a beach and getting it off again. Most regular captains would use the word cowboy, but I think that buccaneer is more acurate. They certainly need to display panache.

Fred

Doug Rogers
8th July 2005, 02:50
I often wondered what must go through the mind (& heart) of a Captain of a ship like the Canberra when she is run up on the beach for scrapping. I doubt many do it a second time.

Haywood

Tom,
Thats very true but bear in mind that Captains and crew get older and move on to other newer vessels. So when finally the time comes to hit the beach it might not be all that senior a captain who does the job. Having said that I have been involved in a couple of decommissionings and it a very sad business, the ship seems to age and become more neglected almost overnight as things are disembarked. I have never been on the last voyage of a vessel going for scrap and nor do I think that I ever wanted to!!.

Paul UK
8th July 2005, 09:10
Doug

I was on the final homeward trip of the old Arcadia and spoke to Mike Carr in some depth.

He did not say to much about the last few minutes but P&O had not decided where she was going until they were in the Med .

He told me it was like having a huge ship to do with what you want and it appears that he was given a free reign as to stops and route.

The little book of Pics that he sells from his current ship (Oriana) is very personal but great to see.

He has even taken pics of the crew landing in one of canberra,s life boats with her in the back ground.

Paul

Doug Rogers
8th July 2005, 09:59
Yes I concur absolutely, I think I have been in part down that path. Mike Carr is a great guy, I only sailed with him for a very short time but have the utmost respect for him, and for many others that I sailed with in my time in P&O.
Sometimes, perhaps even often depending on "the exigies of the service" previous Captains did get the chance to take earlier vessels to their last destinations!!!. Some did, others did not do it if they had the chance. I dont think I could have but thats me!!, not that I would have been in the "beaching" situation anyway .
Times have changed and P&O S N Co still remains but is very different to my days with them, Princess Cruises and the P&O vessels are very different now, I guess nothing is forever,
I havent seen his little book of pics, I must try and hunt it down when I am next back in the UK. I am sure it would be interesting to say the least..but unfortunately I dont think I would recognise any faces involved. Cheers and my thanks for the thread.

Paul UK
8th July 2005, 10:12
Doug

I dont think it is on general release but I found it on the old Arcardia, Me thinks Mike is selling it off his own back and is probably available from the Oriana if he is current duty capatain .

Paul

Ps it is about post card size with about 20/25 Pics

Doug Rogers
8th July 2005, 10:40
Paul,
Thanks for that, will have to try and establish as and when they are both out here!!, and tap a few other resources. Will check it out and see what happens, my thanks again for the info.

Paul UK
8th July 2005, 11:17
Doug

I assume from your flag you are down in a sunnier climate, if so you will need to wait at least six months.

I will try to find Oriana,s email address and do a bit of Sherlock Holmes for you, If I can locate do you want me to get one or would you rather wait.

Paul

Doug Rogers
8th July 2005, 12:06
Thanks Paul, if its easy please try but if not I am sure I can get the wheels turning and get one in the fullness of time!!.

R58484956
8th July 2005, 14:30
According to a website Abbey National owned Canberra, so I suppose I was a part owner

Paul UK
8th July 2005, 14:50
which website was that.

paul

R58484956
8th July 2005, 16:50
www.ss canberra.com goto tables, official details. and you will see owner abbey national leasing since 1991

Paul UK
8th July 2005, 17:58
Thanks

Paul

fred henderson
8th July 2005, 19:17
In 1991 P&O must have needed cash to finance their major expansion in container operations. In any event they entered into a number of sale and bareboat charter back deals for their passenger ships. Canberra, Island Princess and Pacific Princess were all sold to Abbey National March Leasing (1) Limited; Sea Princess to Investors in Industry, now called 3i plc and Royal Princess to Howell Shipping Ltd. The ships continued to be operated by P&O and as far as the passengers and crew were concerned the new ownership arrangements were not visible.
Sitmar had entered into a similar deal to finance their Italian new buildings. After buying Sitmar, P&O continued these arrangements when the ships were delivered in 1990 and 1991, but their financing was more obvious. The Crown Princess and Regal Princess were both bought from Fincantieri by Astramar SpA. They were registered in Palermo, flew the Italian flag and had Italian officers.

Fred

Paul UK
8th July 2005, 22:42
Thanks for the info Fred I thought I was not going mad

Paul

Paul UK
15th July 2005, 22:56
Doug

Mike Carr is currently captain of Oriana so either suggest letter to him via P&O Southampton or on General Email to Ship.
Oriana@pocruises.com for his attention.

Paul (*))

Doug Rogers
16th July 2005, 03:04
Many thanks - will organise, thanks you very much for your help.
Cheers,

Pompeyfan
10th August 2005, 11:27
Interesting to read these posts re Canberra. I have just heard from Mike Carr interestingly enough having missed him when I was aboard Oriana recently. He was on leave. I worked with Mike years ago on the old Arcadia (not Ocean Village, I go way beyond that)when he was second officer. Doug mentions that P&O has changed. Too right they have. I go way back to the 'line voyage' era and will explain when I can just how much things have changed since the middle 70s and how words we used below decks on both Canberra and Arcadia are now extinct and how shore side lingo is so rife on board cruise ships now amongst passengers AND crew , I see a major safety issue. But that is for another post.

Paul UK
10th August 2005, 13:33
Look forward to seeing your posts, as I am only a land lubber that just loves going on cruises.

I was a passenger with Mike twice on the middle Arcadia with the second being the final cruise to the Ocean Village.

In my opinion he runs a very happy ship that shows from the bottom up.

Paul

R58484956
22nd September 2005, 12:19
P&O Ventura, the largest ship built for the British cruise market, being built in Italy,she will carry 3100 passengers and 1200 crew. 900 of the 1550 passenger cabins will have balconies.

Paul UK
22nd September 2005, 15:15
Were have you seen this info, I knew there was a new build in the picture but no info yet.

Paul

Paul UK
22nd September 2005, 15:21
Found the info

P&O Website.

Paul

Doxfordman
7th October 2005, 00:51
Be interesting to hear more Pompeyfan. I was with what turned out to be P&O but had a big stamp, "definately not Pass ship material".
As to financing, its very common for finacial institutions to take equitiy in ships and lease them back. They always have the asset value to depreciate and the operators has the revenue, apart from lease payments.

ruud
7th October 2005, 05:52
Ahoy,

Here an article seen @ Piet Sinke's daily collection of maritime press clippings :

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5653/carnival0uw.th.jpg (http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=carnival0uw.jpg)

Thamesphil
7th October 2005, 09:18
Times have changed and P&O S N Co still remains but is very different to my days with them, Princess Cruises and the P&O vessels are very different now, I guess nothing is forever,


For the record, there is really nothing left of the old P&O SN company. Only P&O ferries remains. Princess and P&O Cruises are owned by Carnival Corp. and P&O Nedlloyd (which was only 25% owned by P&O anyway since 2004) was sold to Maersk in 2005.

The ferry division will probably go soon. P&O have signalled their intention to exit shipping altogether and concentrate on their other interests such as ports.

Very interesting thread, thanks for posting.

Phil

Pompeyfan
10th October 2005, 21:48
Be interesting to hear more what Dox?. I did say that saftey issue was for another post after a recent cruise, but don't know what you mean in the rest of your post?!. David