doxford engines

stores
17th September 2008, 23:15
can anyone tell what type of doxford engines were fitted to watts watts ships , wanstead, woodford and wendover ? if my memory is correct i think they were 5 cylinder and i remember big rubber pipes on the top platform , dont know if it was for cooling water ? what model would they be, can remember we pulled pistons a lot, STORES.

Doxfordman
19th September 2008, 18:26
Don't know the ship to which you refer, but sounds like 5 cylinder LBD's.???

bengahzi
19th September 2008, 20:50
can anyone tell what type of doxford engines were fitted to watts watts ships , wanstead, woodford and wendover ? if my memory is correct i think they were 5 cylinder and i remember big rubber pipes on the top platform , dont know if it was for cooling water ? what model would they be, can remember we pulled pistons a lot, STORES.

you are right the hoses were for water cooling later engines had telescopic connections what a job pulling the bottom pistons some poor "sod" had to grind away the carbon deposits in the scavenge area usually the small guy ( me!!! )happy days
bengahazi

Doxfordman
20th September 2008, 04:40
Character building stuff!

billyboy
20th September 2008, 06:35
Never had anything to do with Doxfords as a "Rock dodger"
Seems to me they were a high maintainence job. Difficult to start and unreliable during maneuvers from what i read so far.
Maybe i should read some more ... or get out more often...LOL

stores
20th September 2008, 14:44
hi, i did my second trip at sea on mv wanstead, first one on newcastle star, the wanstead voyage was eleven months, we only broke down once in mid atlantic. dont remember any complaints regarding manouvering, , as i was the smallest i allways got to clean off the carbon, the jobs i hated most was using the 56lb sledge to tighten and untighten the nuts during piston ring change and carbon removal, one day because of heat and sweating i gave a big swing, it flew out of my hands and landed on bottom plates, just missed 3rd engineer, never had to do it again, another nasty job was in crankcase assisting engineer do a hammer test, the fumes were bad and slippery as an eel inside, the good old days ! my engine room rating was fireman/cleaner, could not fathom that one, as she was motor and the donkey boiler was automatic. STORES.

japottinger
23rd September 2008, 21:06
I served my eng. apprentinceship with Scotts' of Greenock, and saw and worked on many Scott Doxford engines and steam turbines being built. I think that convinced me that I would prefer to sail on steam ships, mind you the first two ships were steam recip.up and downers, so there was a lot of taking leads and big hammer flogging of bottom ends etc.
Next stop turbines, but no escape as the ships had Ruston diesel generators.

Succour
24th September 2008, 13:50
Elder Dempster's M.V. Kumba. Pic attached.
5 Cyl Opposed piston Doxford. Steam auxiliaries with a Scotch boiler. Double expansion Steam Genny's 110v DC.
Turning gear...Steam. Feed pumps...Steam. Air compressors ...steam. Really weird, and on top of that West African crew from Freetown, who didn't know how to use a shower....whew. But you did get a cuppa in bed before watches.

Cheers.

Succour.

eldersuk
24th September 2008, 22:46
Succour,
I think you may be getting mixed up with the 'D' boats, some of which had 5 cyl Doxfords but with electric auxiliaries and Allen diesel generators.
Kumba, like most of the 'newer' 'K' boats had a 4 cyl. B&W type opposed piston engine with auxiliaries as you describe.

Derek

Archie NS
28th September 2008, 22:23
My first ship was the British Birch in '55, 6cyl Doxford, main engine driven pumps and scavenge pump. All steam auxiliaries and British Polar genny's (a nightmare) my first introduction to the crankcase was replacing the packing on thebanjo arms to the lower piston cooling whilst stopped at sea.

I did a couple of trips with E.D's in the late 50's on the Patani, there again Doxford, main engine driven pumps, one or two Scotch boilers (can't remember now) on the starboard side and a Cochrain exhaust gas boiler on the port side. I think we had Allen genny's but can't be sure, all the deck machinery was steam.
All in all I enjoyed those engines, easy to manouver once you got the hang of it, just keep an eye on the fuel pressure and turn the little wheel on the right.

Ah happy days!!!!!

spongebob
28th September 2008, 22:37
Stores, was it a 56 pound sledge? sounds like a very big one!
In the dry dock we used to use a 28lb hammer on the cruiser prop nuts and the rule was no more than 3 or 4 swings by any one man for fear that you may lose balance and fall off the staging. My father would not believe that we used hammers that big so I obtained a pass to take one home strapped to the pillion of my motor bike.
Yes swinging flogging hammers in a slippery oily situation was a real hazard

Bob

stores
29th September 2008, 00:30
HI BOB, think it was a 56 lb one, could be wrong, was a long time ago, all i know it was heavy, on later ships we used torque wrenches, much easier and safer, can remember wearing a potato sack with holes cut for head and arms to be lowered into cylinder to remove carbon, saved ruining your clothes, other nasty job was befor breakfast every morning cleaning the de laval purifiers, then carting all the sludge up on aft deck and dumping it, what would they say now, ? how do they get rid of it now, on the whole we never had problems with doxfords, the engines i hated were B and W Double acting jobs , allways scavenge fires on the ones i served on, , by the way have just received some photocopies of federal commerce ships , in wartime from imperial war museum, free of charge including postage, 10 x 8 prints are £8 40 inc vat, 8 , 5 x 6 , 5 £7 05, less than half the price of greenwich maritime museum , maybe of interest to other SN members, will be my last repl;y to anything for a while, on oct 7th am flying out to india to live, finish work next saturday, am 69 so its my time now, best wishes to all. STORES.

4eyes
9th October 2008, 21:35
I was a Perang man myself, endless hours hove to in the middle of nowhere, slipping about on crank webs changing out leaking bottom piston cooling water elbows. Just a single scotch and steam aux'ies, though we had a little Ruston diesel YE providing power for the air conditioning, luxury when on the coast, but manic when it went down. Worse job must have been on the top grating swinging on the cochran boiler main engine exhaust changeover valve.

chadburn
10th October 2008, 09:50
Kevin, I am with you in regards to slipping about on crank webs although at least Sulzers had machined webs unlike others which were left unmachined I could not get back quick enough to Steam Turbines or T.E.'s. In regards to the by pass engine exhaust mushroom valve on the Cochran boiler the "automatic" versions were not much better, driven by an electric motor through a gearbox with an "acme" threaded spindle they had the habit of sticking in mid position at the most awkward time which usually meant going back to handraulic.

bobs
10th October 2008, 11:16
Going right back to the original question, the engines fitted in the Wanstead, Woodford and Wendover (built by Caledon. Dundee) were the five-cylinder Doxford type 67LBD5 built by Scott's of Greenock.
Bore: 670 mm; stroke 2,320 mm; output: 5,500 bhp @ 115 rpm.

Some time back, one of you Doxford fanatics on this site sent me a list of ships and their Doxford engine types. Since then I have had a computer crash and lost that very useful and interesting list. Any chance of another copy?
Cheers
Bob Scott

chadburn
11th October 2008, 12:30
I have a picture of Headlams "Egton" in the engine section, it depended on how lucky/unlucky you were as to whether the Doxford you were running was "fit for purpose"

760J9
12th October 2008, 23:29
Hello Stores
Wanstead Doxford 670LB5, 5500 BHP, Scotts engine works no. 728 in 1949
Wendover Doxford 670LB5, 5500 BHP, Scotts engine works no. 729 in 1950
Woodford Doxford 670LB5, 5500 BHP, Scotts engine works no. 730 in 1950

Malgray2
14th June 2012, 21:55
Hello Stores
Wanstead Doxford 670LB5, 5500 BHP, Scotts engine works no. 728 in 1949
Wendover Doxford 670LB5, 5500 BHP, Scotts engine works no. 729 in 1950
Woodford Doxford 670LB5, 5500 BHP, Scotts engine works no. 730 in 1950

I still dream in time to the beat of 729!

Arthur C
12th July 2012, 03:12
Hi All,
I was appointed to the Bulk Carrier 'Orenda Bridge' 135,000 Tons DWT (Houlders, Ore Carriers Ltd), being built at the Doxford North Sands shipyard, Sunderland, Tyne & Weir, in early 1972. This was the biggest Doxford ever built, one other 9 cyl was fitted to an earlier build (a tanker the Bergstrom or something like that).

The J type Doxford was a good engine, except the Spill valves which monitored the amount of fuel going into each cylinder, had to be regularly adjusted (usually by the Chief Eng.).

We later (in 1975) had a problem with seals on the liners above the scavenge space, which resulted in the 10 tons of lubricating oil in the D /Bottom becoming totally emulsified, the LO Purifier was unable to cope, with the leaks.

We 'hove to' for the weekend in the Northern Indian Ocean off Australia & radioed London office for advice, Advice given was, to proceed at reduced speed to our destination at Port Hedland, Western Australia for repairs.

We engaged 2 teams of shore Aussies & flew Houlders engineers on Leave to Oz, to sort this out. Also an Eng. Superintendent flew out from Houlders in London.

18 pistons were pulled, 9 liners, every bearing surface in the crankcase was removed & everything was inspected, luckily most was unaffected, by the water in the oil.

The 2/E & myself were appointed team leaders & we worked really hard in this hot location with our teams, 8hrs on & 8hrs off for over 6 weeks to complete this work, anchored offshore at this remote place, it was very hard work.

Are there any members of our Teams from this mammoth Job out there? I resigned from the Merchant Navy after this, but enjoyed my time & seen a lot.

P.S.
The Orenda Bridge was sold off in 1978 & became the Theodora, then sold again in 1983 & became the Serena, she was broken up in 1985, after a life of only 13 years. Doxford Engineworks at Pallion, Sunderland, UK, ceased trading, I believe in 1972.

Arthur C.

A.D.FROST
12th July 2012, 08:31
Hi All,
I was appointed to the Bulk Carrier 'Orenda Bridge' 135,000 Tons DWT (Houlders, Ore Carriers Ltd), being built at the Doxford North Sands shipyard, Sunderland, Tyne & Weir, in early 1972. This was the biggest Doxford ever built, one other 9 cyl was fitted to an earlier build (a tanker the Bergstrom or something like that).

The J type Doxford was a good engine, except the Spill valves which monitored the amount of fuel going into each cylinder, had to be regularly adjusted (usually by the Chief Eng.).

We later (in 1975) had a problem with seals on the liners above the scavenge space, which resulted in the 10 tons of lubricating oil in the D /Bottom becoming totally emulsified, the LO Purifier was unable to cope, with the leaks.

We 'hove to' for the weekend in the Northern Indian Ocean off Australia & radioed London office for advice, Advice given was, to proceed at reduced speed to our destination at Port Hedland, Western Australia for repairs.

We engaged 2 teams of shore Aussies & flew Houlders engineers on Leave to Oz, to sort this out. Also an Eng. Superintendent flew out from Houlders in London.

18 pistons were pulled, 9 liners, every bearing surface in the crankcase was removed & everything was inspected, luckily most was unaffected, by the water in the oil.

The 2/E & myself were appointed team leaders & we worked really hard in this hot location with our teams, 8hrs on & 8hrs off for over 6 weeks to complete this work, anchored offshore at this remote place, it was very hard work.

Are there any members of our Teams from this mammoth Job out there? I resigned from the Merchant Navy after this, but enjoyed my time & seen a lot.

P.S.
The Orenda Bridge was sold off in 1978 & became the Theodora, then sold again in 1983 & became the Serena, she was broken up in 1985, after a life of only 13 years. Doxford Engineworks at Pallion, Sunderland, UK, ceased trading, I believe in 1972.

Arthur C.

First Doxford "J"(76J9) fitted to NORTH SANDS owned by Doxford & Sunderland SB (mgd.J.I.Jacobs)Last Doxford 76J4 fitted to CANADIAN PIONEER Upper Lakes Shg.Doxford Engs.close, 1985(Thumb)http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/guides/William_Doxford_and_Sons (Read)
The tanker you reffer to was the BORGSTEN Largest ship built in UK and highest power H&W/B&W at the time.

averheijden
12th July 2012, 08:54
Hi All,

The J type Doxford was a good engine, except the Spill valves

We later (in 1975) had a problem with seals on the liners above the scavenge space, which resulted in the 10 tons of lubricating oil in the D /Bottom becoming totally emulsified, the LO Purifier was unable to cope, with the leaks.

18 pistons were pulled, 9 liners, every bearing surface in the crankcase was removed & everything was inspected, luckily most was unaffected, by the water in the oil.

Arthur C.

Arthur,
A bit cotradictory?

Regards
Alfons
http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters

Arthur C
12th July 2012, 16:28
I put to you Alfons, that Diesel Engines, single screw 2 stroke, such as Sulzer,
B & W & Doxford, were working to their maximum effort in driving big tonnages of OBO's & Bulk Carriers & we Senior Engineers have a heavy workload in keeping these huge ships efficient.

Quick turnarounds, ballasting, being duty engineer on alarms, every few nights at sea & in port, etc. & its gets more difficult as time advances.

Basically, the J type Doxford was efficient, a good proven engine & a wonderful engine to watchkeep, My first Doxford (diaphragm) on the 9500dwt ton Oregis (built 1955), ore carrier, ran like a sewing machine.
But on larger diesel engines, there are lots of Stresses & Strains trying to push huge tonnages through the water, if you have any training in Science would realize this.

On manoeuvring, the J type was good, on steaming, she was great, but three years is a long time to be working flat out pushing huge cargo's around the world.

John Houlder (of Houlder Bros Shipping Line) when he ordered this ship (Orenda Bridge) wanted to buy British, as he had encountered good service from his smaller tonnaged fleet of ore & bulk carriers during the 50's, 60's & 70's, so why not!

Name me a good Belgian/ German, alternative, sorry no insult intended.

Arthur C. (a Welsh Aussie from many years back).

averheijden
12th July 2012, 20:15
Some particulars concerning the above mentioned ship's

Life Time:
ORENDA BRIDGE: 13 years "J" Engine
NORTH SANDS : 22 years "J" Engine
OREGIS : 27 years " LBD" Engine

Regards
Alfons
http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters

Arthur C
13th July 2012, 02:44
Best wishes alfons, often hard work, but nice memories.

Better than sitting at an office desk, like possibly most of our non-seagoing school friends did during their working life.

Regards to you & your family,

Arthur & family(Jester)

averheijden
13th July 2012, 09:57
My first Doxford (diaphragm) on the 9500dwt ton Oregis (built 1955), ore carrier, ran like a sewing machine.
Arthur C. (a Welsh Aussie from many years back).

Arthur,
First of all, thanks for the kind words for me and my family
The same wishes for you!

About the LBD Doxford from the OREGIS, I doubt, because the test engine with a diaphragm was in 1955, and according the "Motor Ship" they came on the market in 1956

As an attachment some pictures fom the LBD test engine.

Kind Regards
Alfons
http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters

A.D.FROST
13th July 2012, 12:04
Arthur,
First of all, thanks for the kind words for me and my family
The same wishes for you!

About the LBD Doxford from the OREGIS, I doubt, because the test engine with a diaphragm was in 1955, and according the "Motor Ship" they came on the market in 1956

As an attachment some pictures fom the LBD test engine.

Kind Regards
Alfons
http://users.telenet.be/doxford-maters

The engine in the Photo. is a experimental test engine 'P' prototype which was later donated to to South Shield Marine Tec. and now at Anson Engine Museum.

averheijden
13th July 2012, 12:53
The engine in the Photo. is a experimental test engine 'P' prototype which was later donated to to South Shield Marine Tec. and now at Anson Engine Museum.

L.S.

The engine on the pictures was an expirimental LBD Doxford

The P-Type was introduced in 1961:
(First ship with “P” Type DOXFORD ENGINE was the mv MONTANA, 20,000-ton d.w.c. Tanker with a 6 cylinder, 10,800 b.h.p.
Built by Sir James Laing and Sons, Ltd, Sunderland for A/S Tanktransport (Thorvald Berg of Tonsberg, Norway)
At that time 28 Engines of that type were on Order

Regards
Alfons
http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters

averheijden
13th July 2012, 13:18
Single Cylinder DOXFORD at South Shields

L.S.
This is the Single Cylinder DOXFORD Engine at South Shields before dismantling.
On the handles: Mr Hamish, on the left Mr. Maurice Clyde

Regards
Alfons
http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters

A.D.FROST
13th July 2012, 13:55
A reprint from "a Product Profie"The Doxford P Type Marine Diesel.As you know diaphrams were orginaly fitted to stop sulpher contamination of the cc and later utilised for under piston scavengeing as to wether Doxfords were the first to fit a diaphram to their own engines (OREGIS Hawthorn-Doxford)since they were not the first to build a TC Doxford (EGORI Scott-Doxford)
28403

Arthur C
13th July 2012, 15:22
Hi Alfons,
The Doxford engine on the Oregis had a mushroom type air pump on the centre top level, between (I think), units 2 & 3, it was a 5 cylinder, 2 stroke Engine, obviously - with no Turbo Blowers - which I am led to believe came in with the P type Doxford.
I remember the 2nd Eng. saying it was a Doxford Diaphragm type, so I am only going on this recollection, back 42yrs ago.

Back to the Orenda Bridge, at one stage we had a Doxford team headed by a Mr Ray? Purvis, come to Rotterdam to fit Darros rings to one of the pistons to assist performance, we also had vibration issues, with the naval Architect Mr Tebbit, from the builders who came to sail on Orenda, for a leg of the voyage & I seem to remember (although very busy) that Wilton or some shore staff in Rotterdam, do major work to /or fit a detuner, for'd of Crankshaft, Main Engine, to assist the above problem.

Obviously you being a chief Eng., with time & resources at your fingertips, you are very well informed & I bow to your long experience, (I only did 5 yrs in the MN), but was a conscientous Engineer, who worked very hard for long hours & got rapid promotion & feel that I would have been offered a junior 2/E position on my next voyage, had I not resigned in 1975.

My next ship, After Oregis, a new building called MV Cumbria, built Scotts, Greenock in 1971, it had the RD Sulzer main engine the last one built at this yard, before changing to the upgraded RND design (longer piston skirt), we had the old rotary exhaust valves, which were noisy & high maintenance. This ship was an early unmanned engineroom with a Richardson & Westgarths Data Logger, with a slow scan, the logger on the Orenda was a Decca Isis, which was far better.

From Cumbria went to North Sands, Sunderland for around 2 months of 'Stand by' for finishing of this big ugly vessel in early 1972, then to Fijenoord for some weeks for undocking & then a berth alongside for some finishing off of various outstanding issues & problems.

Then down the track in 1973, joined the Gas Carrier Cavendish, going between Gulf & Japan with LPG for Japan, this had a Fiat 2 stroke Diesel, high Maintenance, in port... but an efficient engine.

Then possibly by request was reappointed a few times to Orenda (which I must admit was a workhouse), it had a waste heat unit by Greens, three stage Diesicon, that produced Superheated steam to power a Peter Brotherhood, Steam Turbo Alternator of about 650 KW to give free power, but supporting equipment was erratic & much of the time was out of service.

Regards, Arthur C.

A.D.FROST
13th July 2012, 16:27
Hi Alfons,
The Doxford engine on the Oregis had a mushroom type air pump on the centre top level, between (I think), units 2 & 3, it was a 5 cylinder, 2 stroke Engine, obviously - with no Turbo Blowers - which I am led to believe came in with the P type Doxford.
I remember the 2nd Eng. saying it was a Doxford Diaphragm type, so I am only going on this recollection, back 42yrs ago.

Back to the Orenda Bridge, at one stage we had a Doxford team headed by a Mr Ray? Purvis, come to Rotterdam to fit Darros rings to one of the pistons to assist performance, we also had vibration issues, with the naval Architect Mr Tebbit, from the builders who came to sail on Orenda, for a leg of the voyage & I seem to remember (although very busy) that Wilton or some shore staff in Rotterdam, do major work to /or fit a detuner, for'd of Crankshaft, Main Engine, to assist the above problem.

Obviously you being a chief Eng., with time & resources at your fingertips, you are very well informed & I bow to your long experience, (I only did 5 yrs in the MN), but was a conscientous Engineer, who worked very hard for long hours & got rapid promotion & feel that I would have been offered a junior 2/E position on my next voyage, had I not resigned in 1975.

My next ship, After Oregis, a new building called MV Cumbria, built Scotts, Greenock in 1971, it had the RD Sulzer main engine the last one built at this yard, before changing to the upgraded RND design (longer piston skirt), we had the old rotary exhaust valves, which were noisy & high maintenance. This ship was an early unmanned engineroom with a Richardson & Westgarths Data Logger, with a slow scan, the logger on the Orenda was a Decca Isis, which was far better.

From Cumbria went to North Sands, Sunderland for around 2 months of 'Stand by' for finishing of this big ugly vessel in early 1972, then to Fijenoord for some weeks for undocking & then a berth alongside for some finishing off of various outstanding issues & problems.

Then down the track in 1973, joined the Gas Carrier Cavendish, going between Gulf & Japan with LPG for Japan, this had a Fiat 2 stroke Diesel, high Maintenance, in port... but an efficient engine.

Then possibly by request was reappointed a few times to Orenda (which I must admit was a workhouse), it had a waste heat unit by Greens, three stage Diesicon, that produced Superheated steam to power a Peter Brotherhood, Steam Turbo Alternator of about 650 KW to give free power, but supporting equipment was erratic & much of the time was out of service.

Regards, Arthur C.

Sorry to keep butting in,but the LBD's were the first to be Turbo Charged(incl scavange pumps until they found they weren't necessary).Two types of scavenge pumps,Mushroom type driven straight of the crank shaft,or Lever type driven from the cross-head at the back of the engine.After being world leaders ,with the 'P' they where playing catch up and with the'J' they were too late.

averheijden
13th July 2012, 16:49
Hi Arthur,

Thanks for your life story, VERY interesting, and do not bow! I am not a Japanese!!
I was sailing on ship's my whole life as an Engineer, and was just lucky to start with my career not long after the WWII

Many new ship's were built so the promotion was fast
I started as volunteer at WILTON FIJENOORD for 3 monts on the end of 1951
There I saw the first DOXFORD on the French Tanker ORLEANAIS, see number 9 on the attached list

Not knowing that in January 1960 I was 2nd Engineer on the "mv Kieldrecht" with a DOXFORD 60LB5, not a mushroom but the scavenging pump on the fore-side of he engine.

I also sailed with WERKSPOOR (4 cycle), M.A.N., SULZER , FIAT and Götaverken B&W

Now I am retired, already for 21 years

So far in short my career, and I do not regret!

Regards
Alfons (Dutchman, but living in Belgium)

Wilton-Fijenoord built DOXFORD's (http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters/tekst/DOXFORD%20ENGINES%20built%20in%20HOLLAND.pdf)

averheijden
13th July 2012, 17:09
Sorry to keep butting in,but the LBD's were the first to be Turbo Charged(incl scavange pumps until they found they weren't necessary).Two types of scavenge pumps,Mushroom type driven straight of the crank shaft,or Lever type driven from the cross-head at the back of the engine.After being world leaders ,with the 'P' they where playing catch up and with the'J' they were too late.

No problem at all, makes it interesting!

1956 "LBD" Type , "D" stands for Diaphragm, to separate the cylinder from the crankcase for not contaminating the Lubricating oil.

February 1957: First Ship with Turbocharging: (ms Egori from Elder Dempster Lines) with a Scott’s Doxford with Turbo charging, 76LBD, with 3 lever driven scavenge pump, 8000BHP at 116 rev./min. B.E.M.P., 91.2 p.s.i. ,(smaller piston diameter as usual)

Still 3 attached (lever driven) scavenging pumps
* In case of Turboblower trouble
* Easy starting
* Sufficient air during long time sailing with reduced power

A Scavenging pump story (http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters/tekst/THE%20DOXFORD%20ENGINE.pdf)

Regards
Alfons

Arthur C
14th July 2012, 01:23
Hi All,
Very interesting & informative forum, prior to going on to Automated Engine room ships in 1971, I did a month long Electronics course at South Shields Tech., which was interesting & helpful.

I saw the single cylinder Doxford mentioned in the thread, At South Shields Tech.

As said before when many motor ships got large, single cylinder Diesels there were many problems, with cracking & stress on the main engine.

Another of the Houlder/ Furness fleet the Furness Bridge was a very troublesome ship & the engineers worked very hard with all sorts of Drama's with the B&W main engine & auxiliaries.

Off to work at IKEA.

Arthur C.(EEK)

A.D.FROST
14th July 2012, 09:01
No problem at all, makes it interesting!

1956 "LBD" Type , "D" stands for Diaphragm, to separate the cylinder from the crankcase for not contaminating the Lubricating oil.

February 1957: First Ship with Turbocharging: (ms Egori from Elder Dempster Lines) with a Scott’s Doxford with Turbo charging, 76LBD, with 3 lever driven scavenge pump, 8000BHP at 116 rev./min. B.E.M.P., 91.2 p.s.i. ,(smaller piston diameter as usual)

Still 3 attached (lever driven) scavenging pumps
* In case of Turboblower trouble
* Easy starting
* Sufficient air during long time sailing with reduced power

A Scavenging pump story (http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters/tekst/THE%20DOXFORD%20ENGINE.pdf)

Regards
Alfons

The Scott-Doxford was the first purpose built Doxford to be tubo charged.The first DoxfordTC eng.was put in the SPINAGER,but prior to this a TC was fitted to a 3cyl test engine put in to the BRITISH ESCORTin 1954(re-engined 4cyl.Swan-Doxford)Later the engine was put into ELYS HARBOUR(b/u1988).

averheijden
14th July 2012, 11:02
The Scott-Doxford was the first purpose built Doxford to be tubo charged.The first DoxfordTC eng.was put in the SPINAGER,but prior to this a TC was fitted to a 3cyl test engine put in to the BRITISH ESCORTin 1954(re-engined 4cyl.Swan-Doxford)Later the engine was put into ELYS HARBOUR(b/u1988).

Particulars from aboved mentioned ship's:
SPINAGER Unknown?
Note: 9 years in between 1954-1963
The 4 cylinder from the BRITISH ESCORT was temporary stored somewhere else?

Regards
Alfons

A.D.FROST
14th July 2012, 13:02
Particulars from aboved mentioned ship's:
SPINAGER Unknown?
Note: 9 years in between 1954-1963
The 4 cylinder from the BRITISH ESCORT was temporary stored somewhere else?

Regards
Alfons

Sorry for the misspelling of SPINANGER.The BRITISH ESCORT engine was stored at Palmers Hill Probably for spares).The BRITISH ESCORT was primary bought by Mollers to re-engine the ELYS HARBOUR as they carried out a similar procedure on a sister ship BERMUDA TRADER which was re-engined with a "Werkspoor" from the ELAX.Also a 3cyl. engine was taken from the BRITISH NAVIGATOR to re-engine VENCHARMIN(ex.BRADFORD CITY).The Highest powered LBD was a70LBDS6 (with out scavange pumps)10,450 bhp fitted in the CORHAMPTON.
28410

Arthur C
14th July 2012, 13:58
Hi Both,
Back from IKEA (work), I put to you that very few ships these days would be 're-engined' due to significant 'labour cost rises' to do these sort of mammoth jobs.

They would be sent to Alang, India, for the drive up the beach & an appointment with the Gas Axe (Broken up).

So I contend to you Senior Members, that life these days in the MN is not what it was, when you guys were in your prime & at sea, or when I was there in the 1970's, leave provisions are better, Crews are smaller, accidents may well happen with Un-manned engine-rooms, more frequently, etc.
Senior Engineers, (4th up) are on Alarms every few days & expected to 'turn to' for duties, the next morning.

Ships are in & out in a day or two, usually at the end of some Jetty in some remote location, but pay is reasonable... I am sure.

The M. Navy was only a small part of my life (Arthur), - but to you guys was a career, I enjoyed it for 5 years. But had a great time in many branches of various industries on Maintenance & workshop duties, which were varied & interesting, I got to see my family grow up, had a good Social life & had many
friends & happy experiences.

I am a well-fixed financially, Senior JP (Magistrate) here in Perth, Australia at Central Police Station/ Central Crime HQ, with 140 Justices working for me, have a good life in a Sunny climate, travel around with our 4WD & caravan leading the gypsy life & do a little selling at IKEA, which gives me a bit of pocket money & I get to meet & mix with nice folks & I love communicating.

I enjoy your expounding on the merits of this or that, on various main Engines.

But alfons, I could never put my long life's experience, into a message like this, as it has been too rich & full of lovely experiences.
I am an outgoing guy & have always by my language & communications got the best out people by my personality. I have no regrets about anything!

But like all elder people like to reminisce about days past, why not, we older people have a lot to offer.

Best wishes to all correspondents on this lovely thread, don't be shy, give us your story.

Regards, Arthur C. (Perth, Western Australia)

averheijden
15th July 2012, 18:18
Hi Both,
don't be shy, give us your story.
Regards, Arthur C. (Perth, Western Australia)

AN OLD TIMER, the Yngaren 1921 with DOXFORD, 58L4, Stroke 2x 1,160mm

Life Time 1921-1942 (After 21 years, struck by two torpedoes )

Note:
* The place of the Thrust Block at that time
*The driving of the camshafts

Regards
Alfons
http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters

Pat Thompson
15th July 2012, 18:57
Greetings,

Remember the Doxford late night in the bar engineers game? Does anybody remember the firing order?

eldersuk
16th July 2012, 00:05
1,3,4,2

Derek

Arthur C
16th July 2012, 01:33
Alfons,
You are a very knowledgeable Chief Engineer, were you a Superintendent? if not.... you should have been.

It would be interesting to know how the single screw, 2 stoke, big bore
B & W / Sulzer engines are going. I know this is a Doxford forum, but it would be fascinating to hear more stories from Engineers, who had big drama's with the main engine & what happened & how they fixed it.

We have many huge bulkers, at the big ore loading ports in the NW of Western Australia, Port Hedland, Walcott & Dampier.

Some of the foreign flagged vessels go missing, presumed sunk (like the poor old Derbyshire). We had a 2/E on the Orenda Bridge join in Aug 1973 in Rotterdam called Bill Hunt, the 2/E on the Derbyshire went by the same name, hope it was'nt him.

Off to office, Arthur C.(Eat)

Mike S
16th July 2012, 01:42
Never forget joining a party in the engineers smoke room room on Rangitane one night long ago. Two rows of young ladies six each lined up with hands on heads one being instructed by the second the other by I think the third doing the other row.
First lot to fall over in a giggling mess lost..........:)
Getting them ashore was interesting.....

A.D.FROST
16th July 2012, 08:15
Greetings,

Remember the Doxford late night in the bar engineers game? Does anybody remember the firing order?

It wasn't the firing order that bother me,it was who got to close the indicator COCKS!(K) http://www.biship.com/song.htm#doxford

Arthur C
16th July 2012, 08:36
NZ shipping line,
I had a tour of a lovely ship of this line (same as Rangitane, above) in London Docks while on a course at Poplar Tech in 1970, the ship was modern, built in Japan & called the MV Manapauri. General cargo I think, but it was sparkling, was'nt a Doxford though.
Also of this same Co., does anyone remember the Rangatiki, Rangatoto & were they re-engined? at some time.

Arthur C.

averheijden
16th July 2012, 08:37
Alfons,
I know this is a Doxford forum, but it would be fascinating to hear more stories from Engineers, who had big drama's with the main engine & what happened & how they fixed it.
Arthur C.(Eat)

Arthur,
Correct, this is all about DOXFORD's, but you can always start a Topic about other Main Engines.

To end the OLD TIMER story (Yngaren)
Note:
Old Timer "Yngaren", Life Time: 21 years
Modern ship "Orenda Bridge" : 13 years

Doxford's first motor ship with a 4 cylinder opposed piston (Junkers-Doxford) oil engine. Which engine would seem to have performed splendidly. Built for 'Rederi AB Transatlantic', (Transatlantic Steamship Company), of Gothenburg, Sweden, G. Carlsson, the manager?
Per a Doxford 1922 booklet, on site in its entirety (the page, the booklet), the vessel was built for built for the 'Transatlantic S.S. Co.'

In Dec. 1923, the vessel was in collision with the Norwegian Hermod, at the Scheldt (the river upon which Antwerp sits). Both vessels were badly damaged & Yngaren was repaired at Gothenburg.

In 1925, the vessel was anchored on the Scheldt & was rammed by the Spanish Villa Franca. Have read no detail re either accident.

In late Oct. 1927, the vessel arrived at Sydney, New South Wales, Australia, with 2 giraffes (apparently named 'High' & 'Mighty'!) & several hundred birds, ex Rhodesia, destined for the Sydney Zoological Gardens. Just 9 WW2 convoy references, including 3 crossings of the N. Atlantic & service to Freetown, W. Africa.

In Jan. 1942, the vessel was in Convoy HX-168, from Halifax, Canada, to U.K. Note that Yngaren's voyage would appear to have originated in Bombay, India, bound for Hull
I presume that the vessel would have gone round the S. tip of Africa & then NW to North America to join that convoy - the independent voyage data at 4 does not help to confirm that.

With a varied cargo (3,000 tons of manganese ore, almost 5,000 tons of copra, 80 tons of trucks & 8 aircraft, per H-168 (1 & 2) manganese), a crew of 34 all told & 6 passengers.

At 8.02 a.m. on Jan. 12, 1942, a convoy straggler in very heavy weather, the vessel was struck by two torpedoes fired by U-43, Kapitänleutnant Wolfgang Lüth in command, at 57.00N/26.00W, (or maybe at 58.17N/12.38W, or 57.03/25.00W), about 600 miles W. of Ireland.

The vessel sank within a minute. 38 lives, including the Master, (his name?), were lost.
Almost a month later, a raft, really a chunk of floating wreckage, was spotted by a Hudson Coastal Command aircraft, & on Feb. 10, 1942, 2 survivors (a Swede & a Dane) were picked up by a fishing trawler.

The much decorated Wolfgang Lüth was the 2nd most successful WW2 U-boat commander sinking 47 vessels & damaging two more.
He died under unusual circumstances a few days after WW2 ended. On May 13, 1945, Lüth did not apparently identify himself or provide a password.
Have not read where or the circumstances. But a German sentry took a shot literally in the dark at a target he couldn't see, struck Lüth in the head, & killed him inst
(Source: THE SUNDERLAND SITE - PAGE 053
SHIPBUILDERS - PAGE 11

That is why the Germans never got a licencee to built DOXFORD ENGINES
(Also not the Japanese and the Italiens)

Regards
Alfons

A.D.FROST
16th July 2012, 09:15
NZ shipping line,
I had a tour of a lovely ship of this line (same as Rangitane, above) in London Docks while on a course at Poplar Tech in 1970, the ship was modern, built in Japan & called the MV Manapauri. General cargo I think, but it was sparkling, was'nt a Doxford though.
Also of this same Co., does anyone remember the Rangatiki, Rangatoto & were they re-engined? at some time.

Arthur C.

RANGITIKI'29(2x10cyl.Brown-Sulzer)re-engined1948 (2x6cyl.Brown-Doxford)RANGITOTO'49 2x6cyl.Vickers-Doxford,MANAPOUR'68 9cyl. Mitsui-B&W.(a recomended read is http://www.bearshidepublishing.com/ "Below the water line" D.Carpenter(ex.NZS eng.) (he got slagged off by Pounder quote; there are no bad engines only bad maintanance.

averheijden
16th July 2012, 11:10
NZ shipping line,
I had a tour of a lovely ship of this line (same as Rangitane,
Arthur C.

Once the "mv RANGITANE" was repaired at WILTON-FIJENOORD, Schiedam Holland in February 1963

Reason: Crack in crank-web cylinder 5 Port Doxford Engine
The ship made with this crack, one trip between U.K. and New-Zealand, before the repairs took place.
Lost in milage only 0,5 mile/hr.
First the boiler was removed out of the funnel and holes were made in the passenger accomodations for passing the hoisting cables.

Big Job and nice work!
Regards Alfons
Severe Doxford Damages (http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters/doxforddamages.html)

A.D.FROST
16th July 2012, 12:56
(Sad)Though it erks me to say it because I'm a Mackem,I thought the tune to the Doxford Song was the Blaydon Races (Not Mcnamaras Band ony if were a H&WB&W song) after all there were more Doxfords built on the Tyne(their I go again) than any where else,thanks to a man called William D.(Wave)

Arthur C
16th July 2012, 13:35
Hi AD,
I love the Geordies & the Makems & Tackems (Weirsiders), salt of the earth folks & present in great numbers, in Houlders Fleet of allsorts of ships.

Also Alfons, interesting reading, well done, again!

Cheers, Arthur C.

A.D.FROST
16th July 2012, 13:46
Arthur,
First of all, thanks for the kind words for me and my family
The same wishes for you!

About the LBD Doxford from the OREGIS, I doubt, because the test engine with a diaphragm was in 1955, and according the "Motor Ship" they came on the market in 1956

As an attachment some pictures fom the LBD test engine.

Kind Regards
Alfons
http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters

The first LBD was put in the mt SHEAF HOLME (May 1955)and the first to have no scavange pumps was mt THIRLBY.

averheijden
18th July 2012, 20:13
The first LBD was put in the mt SHEAF HOLME (May 1955)and the first to have no scavange pumps was mt THIRLBY.

The LBD test were end 1954, so it is not impossible that there were some more or less "test engines in 1955"
Perhaps there is somewhere a proof by a document f.i "The Motor Ship"??

But, according my information in 1956 the LBD was common on all built DOXFORD's at that time

Besides,...... in that time DOXFORD offered also the possibility to alter older LB engines to LBD

I doubt if many owners have done this, in my opinion it was very costly :

The conversion meant:
That for each cylinder, the center connecting rod, the center crosshead guide , piston rod and piston shirt, and the carrier with scraper rings had to be replaced.

The existing crankpin bearings and cross head bearings for the center connecting rod could be re-used with the new connecting rod, as well as the piston crown.

The front of the engine had to be removed and adjusted to fit a chamber for the new stuffing box
The whole should be aligned, drilled, equipped with tapped holes and bolts.
See the figure to get an idea.

The old crosshead guides were removed for replacing a new made guide way
.
Attention should be paid that the original center line of the crosshead guide had to be maintained to ensure proper side clearance of the slack of the supporting pads.

A special mandrill used for the vertical alignment of the new center guide way.
This mandrill was approximately 5 inches in diameter and about 19 feet long, in two parts connected to a keyway connection and provided with two rings, slightly smaller than the cylinder diameter.

It has been extended by the cylinder liner to the lower edge of the central guide way for a true vertical axis, as shown in Figure:


The vertical lub.oil pipes for piston cooling should be reduced due the new shorter center connecting rod and should be monitored that all moving parts run freely from each other.

The following figure shows the attachment for the piston rod to guide through the stuffing box

(For give my errors in English writing or Tecnical Expressions)
Regards
Alfons
http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters

A.D.FROST
19th July 2012, 09:11
from "Building Ships On The North East Coast" by J.F.Clarke.

28471 28472

Arthur C
19th July 2012, 11:08
Hi Alfons & AD,
Thanks for mail, have just got home from a day's work selling beds & Wardrobes at IKEA. Its been very cold here in Perth, W. OZ. & have many absences with Colds & influenza, plus its school holidays so many married Co-workers are unavailable.

Many thanks for your scholarly guidance & thread, I would be too old at nearly 65 to do Main engine maintenance now, but the Big job we done in 1975 went like clockwork with no accidents.

We also removed & stripped turning gear & thrust bearing of the Big Doxford, wished I had taken pictures in the engineroom at that time.

I have also posted a thread on seeking shipmates, in the few days I have had a nice message from one guy who was on a ship That I 'Stood By' & took on the maiden voyage, the Cumbria (a bulk carrier with derricks) that only being 30,000 something tons went to some lovely ports. Being on the VLC ships had its drawbacks.

Keep in touch & thanks for your mails.

Arthur C.

A.D.FROST
19th July 2012, 17:24
Hi Alfons & AD,
Thanks for mail, have just got home from a day's work selling beds & Wardrobes at IKEA. Its been very cold here in Perth, W. OZ. & have many absences with Colds & influenza, plus its school holidays so many married Co-workers are unavailable.

Many thanks for your scholarly guidance & thread, I would be too old at nearly 65 to do Main engine maintenance now, but the Big job we done in 1975 went like clockwork with no accidents.

We also removed & stripped turning gear & thrust bearing of the Big Doxford, wished I had taken pictures in the engineroom at that time.

I have also posted a thread on seeking shipmates, in the few days I have had a nice message from one guy who was on a ship That I 'Stood By' & took on the maiden voyage, the Cumbria (a bulk carrier with derricks) that only being 30,000 something tons went to some lovely ports. Being on the VLC ships had its drawbacks.

Keep in touch & thanks for your mails.

Arthur C.

Sailed on Hadley's COTINGA (Mak) and met Peter Warwick,whose daughter lauched the CUMBRIA.(Hadley still going strong)

averheijden
20th July 2012, 13:58
from "Building Ships On The North East Coast" by J.F.Clarke.

28471 28472

L.S.

In one of your attachments was written:

A rather blunter judgment by Mr. BEN CROWDY

I fully agree with that saying , because in my opinion that person never sailed with engines with Turbo blowers only, without the help during manoeuvring from another source for sufficient scavenging air by piston scavenging pumps or an auxiliary blower.

It was very wise from the DOXFORD Staff to add attached scavenging pumps to the first super charged engines because also the Turbo blowers at that time were in a begin stadium.

I know from experience, and I suppose you agree, that even in the late eighties, with engines with no help of an auxiliary blower it was impossible to go fast from Slow to Full, frequently asked by the Pilot or Captain

And if you tried to respond fast to an order mentioned above, than, even with turbo blowers working according the “pulse system”, you murder an engine with on the long term cracked liners

There are many examples f.i. “ms Devonbrook” and also the latest built Doxford from the “mv Pioneer”

BTW, The in France built Doxford's you will find Here (http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters/tekst/French%20Ship's%20equipped%20with%20DOXFORD%20ENGI NES.pdf)

For the moment so far
Regards
Alfons
http://users.telenet.be//doxford-matters

Duncan112
20th July 2012, 16:59
Even with modern engines the problems with turbo lag are considerable, the trend towards larger turbo chargers with their considerable inertia and the increased thermal efficiency of engines giving less power to be expended in the turbo charging system and more in the waste heat recovery systems has also, in my opinion, decreased the responsiveness of engines, although, to be fair the advent of variable geometry turbochargers has redressed the balance somewhat.

I think that Mr Crowdy is being a little unkind towards Doxford in suggesting that they were late in adopting turbocharging as the majority of the ship owners they built for were a conservative bunch, unwilling to have innovations tried at their expense.

Alfons, in one of your posts above you mention a Doxford booklet on the web, any chance of a link please?

averheijden
20th July 2012, 19:00
Alfons, in one of your posts above you mention a Doxford booklet on the web, any chance of a link please?

Duncan,
Here is the info which I found on the WWW

This is the information page about the YNGAREN (http://www.searlecanada.org/sunderland/sunderland053.html)
It concerns Peter Searl’s Website ( http://www.searlecanada.org/)
Regards
Alfons

averheijden
20th July 2012, 19:30
Before the decision to rebuilt a LB engine to a LBD, some calculations must be made by the Technical Department

1ste What is the remaining life time of the ship?

What are the total cost of this alterations, working hours, materials and the days out of service
If the engine was running before on diesel oil, and to made ready for the use of HFO, than there were many extra costs for instance:

* Heating coils on FO pipe lines and bunker spaces
* Heaters (steam) for HFO separators and for the HFO before the Main Engine
* 2 HFO separators, a Purifier and a Clarifier
* Viscosity meter before the engine
* Adjusting the FO injection before dead centre (earlier), and perhaps:
* Lapping the FO plungers from the FO pump
* Lapping the injection needles
* More cylinder and piston ring wear
* More work and problems for the Engineers, but WHO CARES?

The advantages:
* Lower FO cost
* Lower LO cost on the long term.

Perhaps I have forgotten something?
Kind regards
Alfons (http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters)

A.D.FROST
21st July 2012, 09:17
Before the decision to rebuilt a LB engine to a LBD, some calculations must be made by the Technical Department

1ste What is the remaining life time of the ship?

What are the total cost of this alterations, working hours, materials and the days out of service
If the engine was running before on diesel oil, and to made ready for the use of HFO, than there were many extra costs for instance:

* Heating coils on FO pipe lines and bunker spaces
* Heaters (steam) for HFO separators and for the HFO before the Main Engine
* 2 HFO separators, a Purifier and a Clarifier
* Viscosity meter before the engine
* Adjusting the FO injection before dead centre (earlier), and perhaps:
* Lapping the FO plungers from the FO pump
* Lapping the injection needles
* More cylinder and piston ring wear
* More work and problems for the Engineers, but WHO CARES?

The advantages:
* Lower FO cost
* Lower LO cost on the long term.

Perhaps I have forgotten something?
Kind regards
Alfons (http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters)

Since the first ship a Shell tanker AURICULA (Hawthorn-Werkspoor) experimeted with the idea of burning HFO 1948-50.A Doxford was one of the first 2S engines to burn HFO(LYLEPARK'51 Rowan Doxford first British Tramp-Ship to use HFO)Surely must of the infurstructure (as you list) would have been in place well before the first "Diaphragm" engines started to appear.At first diaphrams were fitted as an answer to a problem(CCLO contamination)rather than a preventative device.Oddly enough the same problems arouse,when in the 80's whist working for BSL their ships auxilaries were converted? to burn blended fuel.They should have read your list first.

chadburn
22nd July 2012, 16:12
A paper "Some of the factors affecting the utilisation of Heavy Fuel Oils in internal combustion engines" was written by Harold Moore M.Sc in 1922. In another paper a comparison with other engine's in 1923 a 3cy Doxford is mentioned with the figure's (per BHP) of 0.45Ib of diesel per hour compared with BFO at .42Ib per hour along with the problems of increased wear using BFO.

averheijden
21st February 2013, 16:50
OLD DOXFORD DOCUMENTS

Source: PACIFIC MARINE REVIEW, 1922, Vol. 19 Page 574, 575

YNGAREN

Regards
Alfons (http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters)

chadburn
21st February 2013, 17:18
In regards to a previous discussion about when the introduction of HFO took place. The following is from Doxford's about the time the vessel was built in 1922 " The use of Diesel Oil's is recommended, Boiler Fuel Oils can be used satisfactorily and continuously but extrea wear on cylinder liner's and piston ring's would have to be taken into the bargain on account of the hard particles of Ash which some of the heavier boiler oils contain".

Varley
21st February 2013, 18:30
The Doxford afficianados always reckonned the slow piston speed/expansion cycle would have made them far better at burning the shyte we were given latterly. Not many left to prove or otherwise by then.

(Father, many times and oft, reminded all in earshot that Dr Diesel had declared that his engines would burn anything "even old shoes if introduced into the combustion chamber in small enough pieces" - in German this can probably be expressed in fewer words, 3 or so at a guess, although longer). Unfortunately many charterers took him at his word.

chadburn
22nd February 2013, 18:08
To think that Dr Diesel was at least 10years behind other's when he patented the compression/ ignition engine, it could well have been a British name as I believe that a Compression/ignition designed and run in the GB is in the Ford Motor Museum in the US but unfortunatly the British inventor was not keen on filling in paperwork.

averheijden
22nd February 2013, 18:09
OLD DOXFORD DOCUMENTS (2)

Source : Pacific Marine Review, Volume 38, February, 1941.

http://www.aukevisser.nl/inter/id1092.htm

“ms ESSO AUGUSTA” Built Oct 1940

http://www.aukevisser.nl/inter/id168.htm

See also Row 40 from:

http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters/tekst/Doxford%20Engines%20built%20by%20SUN%20pdf.pdf


Attention concerning the BRAKING ARRANGEMENT for stopping the engine quickly!
SUN invited already in 1940 an arrangement for fast stopping the engine

The N.E.M. STOP was many years later in 1954 for ms BRITISCH VISION

http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters/NEM-STOP.html

Have a nice day with this information

Alfons

Ps: I am looking for a drawing concerning the “SUN –Quick Engine Stopping Procedure”
Who can help me?

Varley
23rd February 2013, 00:39
To think that Dr Diesel was at least 10years behind other's when he patented the compression/ ignition engine, it could well have been a British name as I believe that a Compression/ignition designed and run in the GB is in the Ford Motor Museum in the US but unfortunatly the British inventor was not keen on filling in paperwork.

I am sure British shoes would have burned better. That is still not to say well!

chadburn
23rd February 2013, 15:09
I am sure British shoes would have burned better. That is still not to say well!

Even better if they had strips of bike tyre nailed on their sole's(Jester)

averheijden
16th December 2013, 15:48
L.S.

Who knows who built the 6 cylinder Doxford's in the HMS Avenger, HMS Biter and HMS Charger
No: 36,37 and 38 from this list

http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters/tekst/Doxford%20Engines%20built%20by%20SUN.pdf

Ship's were built 1941/1942 By Sun Shipbuilding

SUN-DOXFORD had always 4 or 5 cylinders
(Perhaps Canadian- Vickers?)

Regard
Alfons

A.D.FROST
16th December 2013, 17:10
All built under license by Sun SB 2x6cyl geared to single shaft(Canadian-Vickers never had a license) originally ordered by Moore-McCormack RIO HUDSON(AVENGER)RIO PARANA(BITER)RIO DE LA PLATA(CHARGER)RIO DE JANEIRO(DASHER)
CHARGER was converted to a passenger-ship FAIRSEA (b/u 1969)

averheijden
16th December 2013, 18:11
All built under license by Sun SB 2x6cyl geared to single shaft(Canadian-Vickers never had a license) originally ordered by Moore-McCormack RIO HUDSON(AVENGER)RIO PARANA(BITER)RIO DE LA PLATA(CHARGER)RIO DE JANEIRO(DASHER)
CHARGER was converted to a passenger-ship FAIRSEA (b/u 1969)

Strange!

I found this, that Canadian-Vickers had a sub license from SUN SHIPBUILDING to built DOXFORD’s

The article is from the book “A bridge of Ships”, Page 329

http://books.google.be/books?id=yV-KdtmXmB4C&pg=PA329&lpg=PA329&dq=Canadian-Vickers++DOXFORD&source=bl&ots=z8V3W9ch-2&sig=PyTp0kLBLjHAfpwiSl9OGakCCVs&hl=fr&sa=X&ei=TjuvUpLeFcfAtAby-4CQAw&ved=0CEMQ6AEwAg

From the “SCANNER” web site this one

http://www.maritimehistoryofthegreatlakes.ca/Documents/scanner/01/02/default.asp?ID=c004

But I must say, that I have no prove yet, that the 3 mentioned ship’s with two 6 cylinder Doxford’s were built under sub license by Vickers or by Sun itself

Alfons (http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters/tekst/Doxford%20Engines%20built%20by%20SUN.pdf)

A.D.FROST
17th December 2013, 08:36
I have two books that mention it.One says they were built by the ship-yard the other under FAIRSEA mentions Sun-Doxfords.Your letter(Forum HMS Dasher) #6 attachment showing Lloyds register 41/42 shows the manufactures as Sun SB&DD?
(C-V CANADIAN CRUISER,CANADIAN CONSTRUCTION,CANADIAN CHALLENGER)
388093880838810

averheijden
18th December 2013, 15:43
[QUOTE=averheijden;722605][QUOTE=averheijden;722367]A/D.F

Thanks for your attachments, it brings more clarity concerning SUN-DOXFORD and Canadian-Vickers
The four vessels: HMS Avenger, HMA Biter, HMS Charger and HMS Dasher, had SUN-DOXFORD's running at 180 revs/min
Quite high for that time!
I have noticed that WIKIPEDIA is not always right about these ships

IN "Lloyd's Register STEAMERS & MOTORSHIPS" said that the Engines were SUN built

Alfons

John Mepham
24th April 2014, 00:35
I was a Perang man myself, endless hours hove to in the middle of nowhere, slipping about on crank webs changing out leaking bottom piston cooling water elbows. Just a single scotch and steam aux'ies, though we had a little Ruston diesel YE providing power for the air conditioning, luxury when on the coast, but manic when it went down. Worse job must have been on the top grating swinging on the cochran boiler main engine exhaust changeover valve.

I spent a very unhappy half hour when I was 5th Engr. on MV Ronsard in 1967 sliding around in a 6 cyl. Doxford cranckcase checking for leaks, I eventually went "**** over tit" and had to be pulled out by the 2nd Engr. great lump on my head where it had come into contact with a load of iron, also the bulb in the hand lamp I had broke, lucky nothing exploded, got choked off by the 2nd engr.
John Mepham - L & H Line.

averheijden
4th July 2014, 16:04
L.S.

DOXFORD Engines were also built in Australia, the LB and LBD type's only

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=C55947489F0E881C!4612&authkey=!AMkSz350c1ocnow&ithint=file%2c.pdf

Regards
Alfons

averheijden
8th July 2014, 15:34
CSM (Continuous Survey Machinery)

It was custom by my Company, and probably by the most Companies, that the ship’s personnel did as much as possible on this CSM during the voyages.

Including the complete overhaul from Main Engine Parts, auxiliary engines, pumps etc.
Some items could be opened before arrival, others such as the Main Engine Parts in port

The surveyor from that classification bureau was invited, for controlling everything and by his approval he made a note that these parts passed the CSM.

There were several bureaus, the most important : Lloyds, Buerau Veritas, Germanischer Lloyd, Det Norske Veritas and American Bureau of Shipping (ABS)

During my 29 years career as Chief Engineer I had many contacts with surveyors from different nationalities and the special manner how they do the control from the engine parts
Perhaps more about this issue later?

One of my interesting presentations for CSM was from an attached scavenging pump from a 6 cylinder DOXFORD.
Believe it or not, but I am still proud how we solved the problem without taking off the heavy top cover and presented it to Lloyds surveyor, with only taking of the side cover which was a piece of cake.

See the description from DEFA: (https://www.dropbox.com/s/35ti0jrc2qrlkpd/Continuous%20Survey%20Machinery%2C%20Attached%20Sc avenging%20pump%20Doxford%20Engine.pdf)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f303/averheijden/SpoelpompDOXFORD_zps24a52086.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/averheijden/media/SpoelpompDOXFORD_zps24a52086.jpg.html)

For the clarity, the piston at that time was in Top position with the four wooden studs underneath.

So far this CSM
Alfons

averheijden
10th July 2014, 15:59
PROVENCE DOXFORD ENGINE, 56 years old …….and believe it or not but still in service!

(Not so strange, because it is a DOXFORD)

Type: 56 LBD S6, built in France (1958) for the ship JEAN SCHNEIDER for “ l’Union Minière et Maritime”

Now operating in the Arabia Sea as Drill Ship, not making many sea miles anymore but now and then moving to another drilling area, or sailing to Mumbai for taking in stores etc.

As said before DOXFORD Type 56 LBD S6, a 6 cylinder with cylinder diameter 56 cm and Supercharged with two turbo blowers , 9000 BHP at 118 revs/min, Service : 7300 at 109 r.p.m.

On the picture you can see, that this engine has a certain age

• Left the push button for starting/stopping the “fuel oil priming pump”, necessary during maneuvering
• The hand wheel for regulating the fuel oil pressure in the “common rail”, by lifting more or less the suction valves from the 6 Main Fuel pumps
• The “starting handle” and at same time Reversing the engine by operating the “Start air Distributor” situated on the Camshaft
• The “Fuel Regulating Handle” for regulating the speed of the engine
• The Fuel Oil filter an Fuel Oil distribution block.

So far this jewel, no 32 from this list (http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters/tekst/French%20Ship%27s%20equipped%20with%20DOXFORD%20EN GINES.pdf)

Alfons