Swan River

Jerry M
5th November 2008, 20:06
I sailed on the Swan River as 4th Engineer in 1969 she was built in Burntisland Shipyard as was the Tenbury but is not listed as being built there, was Tenbury renamed Swan River maybe by charterers?

Jeremy Meadows.

non descript
5th November 2008, 20:15
A fair question Jeremy, but no, the Tenbury was built as the Tenbury and remained as such until sold in 1974 and re-named Al-Barat (http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63603). The ship you were on was a fine ship, built in 1959 and she remained in the fleet until 1971. – If my memory serves me well, the Swan River (http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=40409) was built for Clan Line and bought by Houlders before delivery, but I stand to be corrected on that point.

ian d.cameron
5th November 2008, 20:25
Swan River
Owner History:
British Empire Steam Nav Co Ltd & Empire Transport Co Ltd (mng Houlder Brothers & Co)
1965 Houlder Line Ltd
1970 Empire Transport Co Ltd & Houlder Line Ltd
1971 Premier Shipping Corp Inc (optd Maldivian National Trading Corp), Singapore
1973 Weymouth Shipping Co, Singapore
1979 Strathmuir Freighters Ltd, Singapore
1980 Humber Shipping Co, Panama
1981 Everjust Shipping Co, Hong Kong (Panama flag)
Status: Arrived for Scrapping - 30/01/1983

BillH
7th November 2008, 15:08
A fair question Jeremy, but no, the Tenbury was built as the Tenbury and remained as such until sold in 1974 and re-named Al-Barat (http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=63603). The ship you were on was a fine ship, built in 1959 and she remained in the fleet until 1971. – If my memory serves me well, the Swan River (http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=40409) was built for Clan Line and bought by Houlders before delivery, but I stand to be corrected on that point.
SWAN RIVER was a product of the Greenock Dockyard which Cayzer, Irvine owned and from which a large number of vessels were produced for their numerous fleets.
She is an oddity in a sequence of yard numbers, but I have found no evidence to show she was ever involved with Clan Line nor Union Castle the two Cayzer companies with vessels built either side of her yard number.
That does not however say that she was not linked in some way as my research into Cayzer, Irvine has thrown up several little quirks from unexpected quarters.
In the past, some already placed orders intended for Clan have been sold before keel laying as was the case with 3 'S' class that went to PSNC who came back and ordered some more.
If SWAN RIVER was a Clan order resold then she would presumably bear a good resemblance to the classes of Clans entering service at that time 465 feet MENZIES type or 494 feet MACIVER.
I have looked at her in the gallery and she is nothing like the Clans although not totally unlike the two R Castles that followed her from the yard. There is however enough difference to discount her as a sister

non descript
7th November 2008, 15:29
My thanks to you Bill, and having had a look at Clan Menzies (http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=29892) and compared her to Swan River (http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=40409), I would say I am none the wiser, as they are not very alike at all, although there are certain common factors.

non descript
7th November 2008, 15:33
As passing comment, our friend Swan River was a little different to the sister ships, Westbury, Shaftsbury, Queensbury and Tewkesbury so there may still be something in that story.

BillH
7th November 2008, 16:09
As passing comment, our friend Swan River was a little different to the sister ships, Westbury, Shaftsbury, Queensbury and Tewkesbury so there may still be something in that story.
A bit of reference book checking shows SWAN RIVER to be 486 feet in between the two CLAN classes and well below the 519 feet of the ROTHERWICK and ROTHESAY CASTLE, so I am reasonable confident she was a one off ordered by Houlder / FW

Bill

non descript
7th November 2008, 17:10
A bit of reference book checking shows SWAN RIVER to be 486 feet in between the two CLAN classes and well below the 519 feet of the ROTHERWICK and ROTHESAY CASTLE, so I am reasonable confident she was a one off ordered by Houlder / FW

Bill

Thank you Bill, excellent stuff (although including the dreaded word 'FW' into a Houlders discussion is almost verging on blasphemy (Jester) - and in passing, for semi-correctness, it was owned by a joint venture between Houlder Line Ltd., and British Empire Steam Navigation Company Ltd. (EEK)
(Thumb)
Mark

BillH
7th November 2008, 17:30
Thank you Bill, excellent stuff (although including the dreaded word 'FW' into a Houlders discussion is almost verging on blasphemy (Jester) - and in passing, for semi-correctness, it was owned by a joint venture between Houlder Line Ltd., and British Empire Steam Navigation Company Ltd. (EEK)
(Thumb)
Mark
That's why only the initials and not the full title - not that much of a fool.

Yes I did know it was a joint ownership.

Quite a bit of Houlder info came into the frame from the Warwick family during my research for a book on their Hadley Shipping Co. which was published in 1996 to celebrate their achieving 70 years.

Unfortunately had to ignore the majority of it as being irrelevant to the task in hand, and leave it there with them.

Bill

non descript
7th November 2008, 17:50
Bill,
You are without doubt very wise... I would suggest maybe you were a wise turtle in an earlier life. - In respect of other matters, I would say that the 18th December 1926 was, I feel you would agree, an interesting date. (EEK)
(Thumb)
Mark

Jerry M
10th November 2008, 11:23
I sailed as 4th Engineer on Swan River in 1969 after a new "dogleg" was fitted to the 5 cylinder Hawthorn Doxford main engine in Liverpool Christmas 68. She was built in Burntisland Shipyard in 1959. I cannot find her on the list of vessels built there so I assume she was delivered as "Tewkesbury" and here name was changed later! Photos tie up!

Regards to all, Jeremy Meadows.

BillH
10th November 2008, 12:26
I sailed as 4th Engineer on Swan River in 1969 after a new "dogleg" was fitted to the 5 cylinder Hawthorn Doxford main engine in Liverpool Christmas 68. She was built in Burntisland Shipyard in 1959. I cannot find her on the list of vessels built there so I assume she was delivered as "Tewkesbury" and here name was changed later! Photos tie up!

Regards to all, Jeremy Meadows.
Jeremy,

Swan River was built by Greenock Dockyard. Scroll back through the thread and you should pick up the discussion.

Bill

Jerry M
10th November 2008, 12:28
I could have sworn she was built at Burtisland but I must be wrong, I can see the Burtislad Plate in the engine room!!! Lloyd's Register puts her as being built at Greenock Dockyard 1959-3 Yard No. 493. Perhaps it was Burntisland design or subcontract! The Official Number (from my discharge book) is 183369 which is not a Burtisland number. The NRT from Greenock Dockyard of 5354 matches my book of 5353.54. She pecame the Prewmier Atlantic in 71, Confidence Express in 73 and Bachlong in 80. I stand corrected but she does look exactly the same as "Tewksbury".

Regards, Jeremy.

non descript
10th November 2008, 15:43
As Bill has accurately pointed out, she was without question built at Greenock Dockyard, and whilst there are some similarities between the Swan River (http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=40409) and the Tewkesbury (http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=66795), as you can see from the pictures of the two, there are also some subtle differences; whilst Tewkesbury, Westbury, Shaftsbury and Queensbury were indeed almost exactly the same, the Swan River was a little different - hence the earlier speculation on this thread as to her parentage. (Jester)
(Thumb)
Mark

Jerry M
17th November 2008, 11:20
Can anybody remember if Swan River had a "Stulken" type heavy lift derrick? See photo http://www.shawsavillships.co.uk/swan.htm The picture on Ships Nostalgia shows her without one. Lloyds Register lists her as having 16 winches, 6 x 12.5 tonne derricks, 8 x 5 tonne and 2 x 2 tonne. I have an old Skyfotos (Neg N. 554) which does not seem to have a heavy lift derrick. Can anyone shed light on this? Incidently Arnold Hamer (known as Dr Diesel) was Chief Enginner when I was there. Dave Senior was Second. The Electrician was Carl ? I cannot remember any other names. Trip was from Liverppol to NZ and back to London

Jeremy.

BillH
17th November 2008, 12:30
Can anybody remember if Swan River had a "Stulken" type heavy lift derrick? See photo http://www.shawsavillships.co.uk/swan.htm The picture on Ships Nostalgia shows her without one. Lloyds Register lists her as having 16 winches, 6 x 12.5 tonne derricks, 8 x 5 tonne and 2 x 2 tonne. I have an old Skyfotos (Neg N. 554) which does not seem to have a heavy lift derrick. Can anyone shed light on this? Incidently Arnold Hamer (known as Dr Diesel) was Chief Enginner when I was there. Dave Senior was Second. The Electrician was Carl ? I cannot remember any other names. Trip was from Liverppol to NZ and back to London

Jeremy.
Jeremy,

Looking closely at the photo quoted there is a heavy lift derrick stowed upright on the forward side of the mainmast.

Bill

non descript
17th November 2008, 12:54
Can anybody remember if Swan River had a "Stulken" type heavy lift derrick? See photo http://www.shawsavillships.co.uk/swan.htm The picture on Ships Nostalgia shows her without one. Lloyds Register lists her as having 16 winches, 6 x 12.5 tonne derricks, 8 x 5 tonne and 2 x 2 tonne. I have an old Skyfotos (Neg N. 554) which does not seem to have a heavy lift derrick. Can anyone shed light on this? Incidently Arnold Hamer (known as Dr Diesel) was Chief Enginner when I was there. Dave Senior was Second. The Electrician was Carl ? I cannot remember any other names. Trip was from Liverppol to NZ and back to London

Jeremy.

Jeremy,
She did indeed have a heavy lift derrick when she was built, which set her apart from the likes of Westbury, Tewkesbury and Queensbury; and in a way gave credence to the idea (maybe misplaced) that she was originally ordered by Clan Line – a company that went in for such things, whereas Houlder was a little more ‘domestic’ in its approach to heavy lifting gear. Whatever the size of her heavy lift derrick, it was fairly conventional and neither a Stulken not a Velle (which type, the dear old Tenbury had).
(Thumb)
Mark

PS. to clarify the "when she was built" - a look at this picture (http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=40409), shows that the heavy lift, such as it was, had gone.

non descript
17th November 2008, 13:05
Very sadly, I seen to recall there was a tragedy surrounding this ship or one of her near-sisters, and a derrick came down whilst she was working cargo in port during a coasting voyage, as she tended to do Liverpool, Avonmouth and London before setting out to Buenos Aires. I could well be wrong, but I fear that it was indeed Swan River and if so, it would then be quite likely that the heavy lift was removed altogether following that tragic accident.