Russian vessels built in Finland after WWII

david cook
19th November 2008, 04:30
On 17th November 2008, a post in the "Sailing Vessels" gallery of "Ships Nostalgia" showed the Russian vessel "Sekstant". This was one of a fleet of more than eighty vessels that were built in Finland as war reparations. They were schooners, square topsail schooners and barquentines and while most of them have disappeared, there are a couple that are still around. The discussion following the post was sufficently extensive to suggest that this might well be a topic for a forum. In particular, it might be interesting to try to create a photo album of the vessels. Periodically a photo of one of this fleet that we had not seen before surfaces - as happened with "Sekstant". If this topic is of any interest to you, can I suggest that you have a look at the information that has already appeared in the "Gallery" section under the picture of "Sekstant" dated November 17th, and comment or add anything to that information, in this forum. It is possible to make the case that the six full-rigged ships that were built in Poland, and perhaps the survivial of "Sedov" and "Kruzhenstern" are the direct result of this fleet of little wooden barquentines and schooners, so although the topic is a bit obscure it is not entirely irrelevant. From the posts in the "Gallery" section, it is clear that there are some very well informed people on this topic, and I'd really like to hear from anyone who can contribute.

David Cook

david cook
19th November 2008, 04:49
Just to add a comment to the information in the "Gallery" section, I think the picture of "Vega" that Steve T provided:

http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=629882

may be of the previous "Vega" not the one that was built as part of the war reparation fleet. The original vessel called "Vega" apparently provided the model for all the subsequent Finnish-built Russian vessels. The information in the picture suggests that the barquentine was lost in 1941, which makes it the original "Vega" not the one that was built in Turku after the war. Werners comment on the picture of the "Kroptkin" supports this view. HOWEVER it is really useful to have the photo of the prototype!

David

McCloggie
19th November 2008, 05:44
Interesting bit of history!

McC

stein
19th November 2008, 14:53
Here is the GA plan for the 10 barquentines, the middle frame, and a launch (schooner or barquentine). The dimensions are as follows for both rigs: L.o.a 44,91 m, L. on deck 43,57 m, Betw pp 33,50, Breadth 8,57 m, deplacement at max load 626 ton. The ships were classified at 300 tond dw, but would in the west be classified as larger as the Russians considered this to reflect a load capacity at a cubic-constant of 1,75 cubic-metre/ton, which means a cargo space of 525 cubic-metre net. (I am just translating!) Total sail area 822 sq. m. The engine is a 225 hp 3-cyl June-Munktell. The barquentines have a diesel for the anchor winch, the schooners two cargo winches, of which the forward one is attached with a chain transmission to the anchor winch. Crew for the schooners 13 men, for the barquentines 58.

stein
19th November 2008, 19:03
Member Mellegiesen informs me regarding the Sekstan that:

If you can open the upper "View in Google Earth", you can
see the wreck, it's also visible in one of the pictures,
"Vrangel Bay-view from Northern Coast."

I do not have Google Earth at the moment, having decided that reducing the number of software programs were necessary, but I thought degrees were necessary to find anything? Regards, Stein.

K urgess
19th November 2008, 20:19
42 45'53.91N 133 03'25.10E There's a picture of the bay showing the wreck.

Kris

SteveT
19th November 2008, 21:33
Hi Stein (and all),

You don't need any special software, just go to this site for the picture:

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/2740278

Not much to see. Thanks for your posts so far. I will add more info as times allows.

Steve

david cook
20th November 2008, 05:43
In the comments on the photo of "Sekstan", Jay Cresswell mentioned that he had encountered one of these vessels in Baku, where it was a floating restaurant. It was probably the "Kodor", and she caught fire and sank. Here are "before" and "after" pictures:
http://www.bahai.az/foto_html/en/condor_en.html
http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/82_folder/82_articles/82_boulevard_project.html

David

SteveT
20th November 2008, 13:21
Thanks to David for that last lead. I know I had seen that site before of the Kodor wrecked, but the picture under sail is a real treasure! How did you ever find that one?

Here is a picture posted by Luc on Shipspotting of the Zarja (he is a wealth of information):

http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=139666

I can blame the books by Otmar Schauffelen for peaking my interest in this topic originally, along with my second topic of interest, the Portugeuse White Fleet. I saw his edition from 1969, and wondered "what ever happened to"...
If only someone would publish a book on these two topics (fully illustrated of course), I'd be the first in line to buy it. I know from writing to Miroslav Tsanov years ago, he had intended to do a volume on the Russian vessels, but sadly now that is not to be. (Miroslav was from Bulgaria and the author of a great book on tall ships) A mutual friend, Erik Abranson recently informed me of Miroslav's passing.

From all the research seen so far, from Luc, Werner, and my Russian friend Anatoly, I'd hazard a guess that only 3 of these vessels still exist in any form, the Zapad's hull, Vega, and Meridianas in Klaipeda. I'd love to know what became of Zarja, or perhaps the other vessel mentioned in hazegray, the Polyarnyy Odissey:

http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/russia/aux_civ.htm

select "Other scientific ships", and scroll down to her info.

Hopefully someone out there might know.

Steve

stein
21st November 2008, 11:26
In the lack of a complete list it may be worth reprinting a few names. A reader in the August 56 issue of Sea Breezes mentions the following: Sekstan, Horisont, Utchoba, Praktika, Junga, Schturman and Meridian as schoolships, presumably then all rigged as barquentines.

A couple of more links:
Meridian
http://www.finland.lt/Public/default.aspx?contentid=120197&nodeid=38417&contentlan=2&culture=en-US
Alfa
http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=648937

We have had nothing on the pure schooners yet, were they all fishing vessels, or did some of them find use as cargo vessels? Regards, Stein.

SteveT
21st November 2008, 22:44
Here are some shots of Meridianas:

http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=258469
http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=310401

Steve

werner_ju
24th November 2008, 23:11
Many thanks to David Cook who invited me to join into this discussion.

The 91 sailing vessels built in Finland as war reparations were mainly cargo vessels, the others were training or research vessels. It looks like the cargo vessels were used as supply vessels for the fishing fleet, bringing supplies out and returning with the catch.

The vessels were built for a life span of 20 to 25 years. At least some of the training vessels remained in service until the early 1980s, the research vessel ZARJA is no longer in the Weyers fleet list of 1997/98.

The following list is compiled from the following sources:
Magazine Båtologen (Sweden), the VEGA homepage (Finland), "Die letzten grossen Segelschiffe" (Germany), pictures from the web and contributions of friends.

Type:
Bkn3 = 3-m barkentine,
FASr3 = 3-m gaff schooner,
BmSr3 = 3-m Bermuda schooner,
Sr3 = 3-m schooner, subtype not known,
C = cargo, R = research, T = training

Oy Laivateollisuus AB (LATE), Turku / Åbo:

No....Name / in Cyrillic......................Type......launched.. ..delivered

..1...SEKSTAN / СЕКСТАН.................Bkn3 T....47-10-04...47-12-31
..2...KAPELLA / КАПЕЛЛА..................Bkn3 T....47-11-27...48-07-12
..3...SIRIUS / СИРИУС......................Bkn3 T....47-12-23...48-07-30
.......later name KRONVERK
..4...ALPHA or ALFA / АЛЬФА............Bkn3 T....48-04-21...48-09-08
..5...MERIDIAN / МЕРИДИАН..............Bkn3 T....48-06-10...48-10-01
.......later name MERIDIANAS
..6...ZENIT / ЗЕНИТ.........................Bkn3 T....48-07-10...48-10-16
..7...HORISONT / ГОРИЗОНТ..............Bkn3 T....48-08-07...48-11-23
..8...TROPIK / ТРОПИК.....................Bkn3 T....48-08-31...48-12-14
..9...SPRUT / СПРУТ........................FASr3 C...48-11-03...49-01-20
10...PERLAMUTR / ПЕРЛАМУТР..........BmSr3 C...48-11-23...49-01-31
11...USTRITSA / УСТРИЦА................FASr3 C...48-12-22...49-06-10
12...KRAB / КРАБ.............................FASr3 C...49-01-14...49-06-10
13...JANTAR / ЯНТАРЬ......................FASr3 C...49-02-07...49-06-22
14...KOMETA / КОМЕТА....................FASr3 C...49-02-28...49-10-15
15...SAIRA / САЙРА.........................Sr3 C.......49-03-28...49-09-01
16...AMBRA / АМБРА........................FASr3 C...49-04-21...49-08-13
17...SARDINA / САРДИНА..................BmSr3 T...49-05-16...49-11-26
......later name ZAPAD
18...KAIRA / КАЙРА..........................BmSr3 C...49-06-07...49-12-02
19...VOSTOK / ВОСТОК....................BmSr3 T...49-07-01...49-12-22
20...KETA / КЕТА.............................FASr3 C...49-08-09...49-12-30
21...AKULA / АКУЛА.........................FASr3 C...49-09-12...50-04-26
22...L-22.......................................Sr3 C.......49-10-12...50-04-20
23...L-23.......................................Sr3 C.......49-11-17...50-05-11
24...L-24.......................................Sr3 C.......49-12-14...50-06-30
25...L-25.......................................Sr3 C.......49-12-30...50-06-29
26...L-26.......................................Sr3 C.......50-01-26...50-06-30
27...KUPY.......................................FA Sr3 C...50-03-06...50-12-15
28...MYNTU....................................FASr 3 C...50-03-07...51-05-07
29...TAHKUNA.................................FASr3 C...50-04-06...51-05-07
30...L-30.......................................Sr3 C.......50-05-15...51-05-12
31...L-31.......................................Sr3 C.......50-06-09...51-05-12
32...IVAN MESJATSEV /....................Bkn3 T.....50-09-18...50-12-14
......ИВАН МЕСЯЦЕВ
33...L-33.......................................Sr3 C.......50-08-28...51-05-31
34...GEORGIJ RATMANOV /................Bkn3 T.....50-10-21...50-12-28
......ГЕОРГИЙ РАТМАНОВ
35...L-35.......................................Sr3 C......50-11-21...51-06-26
36...RISTNA...................................FASr 3 C...50-12-30...51-07-31
37...L-37.......................................Sr3 C......50-12-29...51-06-29
38...L-38.......................................Sr3 C......51-06-09...51-08-31
39...L-39.......................................Sr3 C......51-06-12...51-08-31
40...L-40.......................................Sr3 C......51-08-16...51-09-28
41...L-41.......................................Bkn3 T.....51-09-04...51-10-23
42...L-42.......................................Bkn3 T.....51-10-05...51-11-17
43...L-43.......................................Bkn3 T.....52-03-27...52-06-16
44...VENTA / ВЕНТА ex L-44.............Bkn3 T.....52-06-05...52-07-30
......later name VEGA
45...L-45.......................................Bkn3 T.....52-05-06...52-06-30
54...ZARJA / ЗАРЯ...........................FASr3 R...52-09-06...52-09-18
.?.30–40..KODOR / КОДОР.................BmSr3 T..................51-??-??
.?.41 or 42..KROPOTKIN /..................Bkn3 T....................51-??-??
................КРОПОТКИН
.?.41 or 42..MENDELEEV /..................Bkn3 T....................51-??-??
................МЕНДЕЛЕЕВ
.?.22-26..POLYARNYY ODISSEY..........Sr3 R......................50-??-??


F. W. Hollming Oy, Raumo:

..1...AKADEMIK SHAKALSKIJ /.............Sr3 C......46-06-15...46-10-14
.......АКАДЕМИК ШАКАЛЬСКИЙ
..2...PROFESSOR VIZE /.....................Sr3 C......46-06-17...46-10-14
.......ПРОФЕССОР ВИЗЕ
..3...KALMAR / КАЛЬМАР...................BmSr3 C. ..46-09-19...47-01-02
..4...KORALL / КОРАЛЛ.....................BmSr3 C...46-09-21...47-01-02
..5...JUNGA / ЮНГА..........................Bkn3 T.....47-05-09...47-08-13
..6...SHTURMAN / ШТУРМАН .............Bkn3 T.....46-12-22...47-08-13
..7...MIDJA / МИДИЯ.........................Sr3 C.......47-05-23...47-07-30
..8...ULVA.......................................S r3 C.......47-06-11...47-07-30
..9...SATURN / САТУРН.....................Sr3 C.......47-09-18...47-12-30
10...JUPITER / ЮПИТЕР.....................Sr3 C.......47-10-04...48-05-22
11...PLANETA / ПЛАНЕТА..................Sr3 C.......47-11-27...48-06-06
12...SMENA / СМЕНА........................Sr3 C.......48-01-15...48-06-06
13...BLESK / ВЛЕСК..........................Sr3 C.......................48-10-29
14...TSHAIKA or CHAIKA /..................FASr3 C...................48-12-29
......ЧАЙКА
15...NEPTUNIA / НЕПТУНИЯ................BmSr3 C ..................48-12-18
16...TREPANG / ТРЕПАНГ...................Sr3 C.......................48-12-18
17...MINTAI / МИНТАЙ......................Sr3 C.......48-12-16...49-06-19
18...OMAR / ОМАР............................Sr3 C......................48-10-29
19...RAKETA / РАКЕТА.......................Sr3 C......49-05-28...49-12-20
20...LUTCH / ЛУЧ.............................FASr3 C...49-07-03...49-12-10
21...TDY-111 / ТДИ-111....................Sr3 C......49-09-20...50-05-25
22...TDY-112 / ТДИ-112....................Sr3 C......49-10-14...50-05-25
38...H-38 / X-38...............................Sr3 C......50-04-29...51-06-02
39...H-39 / X-39...............................Sr3 C......50-05-20...51-05-20
40...H-40 / X-40...............................Sr3 C......50-06-20...51-06-06
41...H-41 / X-41...............................Sr3 C......50-07-12...51-07-01
42...H-42 / X-42...............................Sr3 C......50-08-01...51-06-10
43...H-43 / X-43...............................Sr3 C......50-12-30...51-06-17
44...H-44 / X-44...............................FASr3 C...51-05-17...51-07-25
45...H-45 / X-45...............................Sr3 C......51-07-10...51-09-26
46...H-46 / X-46...............................Sr3 C......51-07-28...51-11-01
47...H-47 / X-47...............................Sr3 C......51-12-17...52-07-25
48...H-48 / X-48...............................Sr3 C......52-02-15...52-07-05
49H-49 / X-49..................................Sr3 C......52-05-15...52-08-23
..?...LUNA / ЛУНА.............................FASr3 C...?...............?
..?..21 or 22..PROFESSOR RUDOVITS /..FASr3 C...?..............50-??-??
.................ПРОФЕССОР РУДОВИЦ
..?...?........................................... ..BmSr3 C ...?...............?
.......later name KIHNU JÖNN


Aug. Eklöf AB, Hammars Varv, Borgå:

..1...LAMA / ЛАМА............................FASr3 C...46-06-20...46-09-25
..2...POLJARNAJA / ПОЛЯРНАЯ.............FASr3 C ...46-07-20...46-09-25
..3...VENERA / ВЕНЕРА.......................BmSr3 C...47-04-30...47-07-14
..4...CHEMTJUG or JEMCHUG...............BmSr3 C...47-07-10...47-10-13
.......ЖЕМЧУГ
..5...GLOBUS / ГЛОБУС......................FASr3 C...47-12-23...48-10-21
..6...SVESDA or ZVEZDA.....................BmSr3 C...48-07-23...48-10-21
.......ЗВЕЗДА
..7...OSJMINOG / ОСЬМИНОГ ...............FASr3 C...48-11-17...49-07-20


Valkon Laiva OY, Valkom:

..2...KREVETKA / КРЕВЕТКА.................Sr3 C......46-09-19...47-02-03
..3...MEDUSA / МЕДУЗА......................Sr3 C.....................47-05-20
..4...AKTINIJA / АКТИНИЯ....................BmSr3 C.................47-10-28
..5...LANGUST / ЛАНГУСТ...................Sr3 C.....................48-01-14

Because of the big number of schooners without name it has been impossible to put the following vessels to the right yard:

ENISEJ or YENISSEI / ЕНИСЕЙ............................?.......... ...?
KAPELLA / КАПЕЛЛА...........................BmSr3 C.................?
(not to be mistaken with Bkn3 of the same name)
KUMJA............................................. Sr3 C.....................?
NADESZDA / НАДЕЖДА.......................Sr3 C.....................?
TOBOL / ТОБОЛ............................................. .?.............?
UMBA / УМБА....................................Sr3 C.....................?
ZUID.............................................. ..BmSr3 C.................?


Statistics:
91 vessels were built altogether.
17 were barkentines (2 Hollmings, 15 LATE).
30 3m-schooners were gaff rigged (29 cargo, 1 research), of these 22 got their rig identified.
44 3m-schooners were Bermuda rigged, of these 15 got their rig identified, 3 of them training vessels.

105 names and numbers are listed which means 14 vessels appear twice. These are the ones without a definite building number. KROPOTKIN and MENDELEEV fit to the LATE building numbers 41 and 42 because of the year built. We have two vessels without any information about their rigs, ENISEJ and TOBOL. These might be the missing barkentines L-43 and L-45. This is just a guess, there can be other names belong to which are not yet in the list (17 names are not known). KIHNU JÖNN certainly did not bear that name in her sailing days. She bore that name during her time as a locality for young people in Reval / Tallinn, Estonia. Kihnu Jönn is a place name near Tallinn.

We can assume that most of the 91 sailing vessels no longer exist, their fate is with a few exceptions unknown to us:
GEORGIJ RATMANOV, decommissioned 10/1972
KIHNU JÖNN, decommissioned 1982, youth club, no longer existing (2003)
KODOR, decom. 1982, restaurant, lost to a fire 8/1999 in Baku, scrapped 4/2000
KROPOTKIN, monument in Sevastopol (2003)
MERIDIANAS, restaurant in Klaipėda, Lithuania
NADESZDA, lying in Nachodka in 1982
POLYARNYY ODISSEY, see www.hazegray.org/worldnav/russia/aux_civ.htm (2001)
ZAPAD, in Arkhangelsk , museum on land, rotten (2007), masts removed
SEKSTAN, wreck of her lying Vrangel Bay, Asian Russia
KRONVERK, restaurant in Leningrad / St. Petersburg, scrapped in the 1990s
VEGA, under restoration in Jakobstad, FIN, she is for sale
ZARJA, since 1975 Bm rig, new alu masts fitted 1983, no longer in the Weyers fleet list 1997/98

No war reparations:
PRAKTIKA ex-PASSAT and UTCHEBA ex-MOUSSON:
Built and used before WW II, still in the Weyers fleet list 1961. Because of their much smaller tonnage (300 ts) it is unlikely that these two vessels were part of the war reparations fleet (KODOR is listed there with 500 ts).

Best regards from Berlin,
Werner


PS: Hope the list comes at least out as in the preview.

david cook
24th November 2008, 23:55
Thanks very much, Werner! Thats a very comprehensive package of information. I hope that we will encounter some more photos, but I suspect that most of the fleet have disappeared without trace.

David

SteveT
26th November 2008, 15:08
Thanks to Werner for the incredible information he's put together.

I was googling a Russian phrase and stumbled on this page:

http://www.infoflotforum.ru/index.php?showtopic=18891&st=15

Scroll down almost halfway and you'll see a picture ( I think it might be Zapad).

Steve

david cook
29th November 2008, 06:02
Yes, Steve, this what remains of Zapad. In terms of photographs, to summarize, at present we have the following:

ALFA http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=648937

IVAN METSYATSEV http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=249713

KODOR http://www.bahai.az/foto_html/en/condor_en.html

KROPOTKIN http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=630001&cid=45 (She is supposed to be a monument in Sevatopol as Werner stated, but I have had a reasonably thorough search, and cannot find any photos of her other than the one listed here)

MERIDIANAS http://flickr.com/photos/76283894@N00/187387377 (There are plenty of other photos - check Google images and "meridianas"

SEKSTAN http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/148297

VEGA http://www.snowfactory.fi/vega/svkrigss.html

ZAPAD http://www.infoflotforum.ru/index.php?showtopic=18891&st=15 (and the two sites I listed earlier)

ZARJA http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=139666

In addition "Great Sailing Ships of the World" (Otmar Schauffelen's book translated into English) has photos of Horizont, Sirius (as Kronwerk), Tropik and another picture of Zarja.

Can anyone add any more - either additional photos of these vessels or some of the others that we do not yet have as a photograph?

David

GeorgeT
29th November 2008, 07:09
Another rich source of information about these ships is the 1999 issue of Nautica Fennica, the journal of the Maritime Museum of Finland. It contains an article by Jouni Arjava on 'The Finnish War Indemnity Schooners' (in both Finnish and English), with a number of photos and a complete list of ships. I haven't had time yet to compare it in detail with the list posted above by Werner to see whether it can add anything. I bought my copy new through the museum's website only a year or two ago, so it's possible that it is still available even now.
Many of the ships were based in the Soviet Far East, and in the course of my research on Soviet merchant shipping I recorded a lot of information from Lloyd's List about their long (and sometimes laboured!) voyages out there from the Baltic. I'm happy to share this, but I don't know that I can promise to get it all put together soon.
It's interesting to note that a number of the ships spent time in UK ports on their way. In 1948, for example, the auxiliary schooner Zhemchug (i.e. Eklöf no. 4 in the post above), 329 gr., 191 nt., was at Hull 12–25 January. She arrived at Brixham for shelter on 29 January, but dragged her anchors and drove ashore on the breakwater. She refloated on the rising tide and sailed on the 30th, but within hours was again in difficulties, and Plymouth lifeboat was launched. In the event, she made her own way back into Tor Bay, and lay at Dartmouth until 11 February, when she transferred to Plymouth. Her sisters Aktinija, Midija, and Ulva had arrived there on 23/24 January, accompanied by the steamer Umba, and the whole flotilla did not sail from Plymouth until 12 March. Many others called at Plymouth in the following years, and surely they must have generated enough interest for local photographers to catch them at some time during that period. It would be nice to think that there might be pictures of them lying in the archives of some of the Devon newspapers . . .

George

werner_ju
29th November 2008, 23:11
Any mosaic stone which adds to the picture is highly appreciated. At least I hope that one day we have all names and can figure out which shipyard has built the vessel.

Regards,
Werner

SteveT
30th November 2008, 12:02
Here are more links:

http://www.vlasenco.ru/Mechta/DSC_7127__.jpg.html Alpha
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/10468129 Zapad
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/8041853 Zapad
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/8040984 Zapad w/ masts
http://www.museum.ru/m2030 click on the picture of Zapad to enlargen

If you get creative with your searching, there are more things that can be found. For example, you can search Google images using the Russian words, like Шхуна for schooner, or баркентина for barkentine. Combine these with the russian name for the vessel (cut and past from Werner's list above), and you can try and zero in on a specific vessel.

Here are some diagrams found:
http://randewy.narod.ru/mod/zar.gif
http://randewy.narod.ru/mod/vega5.gif

Steve

werner_ju
30th November 2008, 17:06
Thank you Steve, a good idea. Luckily many of the Russian maritime terms are based on English and Dutch.

The photo of ALPHA is the best I've seen so far. It was taken between 1965 - 67 on Odessa roads.

The first diagram is of the ZARJA.

Regards,
Werner

david cook
30th November 2008, 17:09
Steve, I think you should teach courses on how to manipulate Google! Thanks!

There is a great temptation to spend the rest of today adopting the strategy that you suggest for identifyiong more pictures. Unfortunately, I have to do some work instead :( ! Please let me know if anything else surfaces.

David

werner_ju
2nd December 2008, 22:23
Steve’s idea of using Cyrillic characters worked well. The following is just what I found in 2 days. I’m sure there is a lot more to come.

From an experienced sailor who sailed on MINTAJ and USTRITSA for 10 years:
http://www.npacific.ru/np/library/publikacii/questhist/ist-613.htm

The story he tells is quite interesting, I’ve used Google translation. He mentiones the schooners:
шхуны «Актиния / AKTINIJA», «Акиба / AKIBA», «Белек / BELEK», «Глобус / GLOBUS», «Голец / GOLEZ», «Жемчуг / CHEMTJUG», «Звезда / ZVEZDA», «Кальмар KALMAR», «Коралл / KORALL», «Краб / KRAB», «Креветка / KREVETKA», «Краснодон / KRASNODON», «Кумжи / KUMCHI», «Комета / KOMETA», «Мидия / MIDJA», «Минтай / MINTAJ», «Медуза / MEDUSA», «Нептуния / NEPTUNIA», «Перламутр / PERLAMUTR», «Трепанг / TREPANG», «Омар / OMAR», «Осьминог / OSJMINOG», «Устрица / USTRITSA», «Чайка / CHAIKA», «Энергия / ENERGIJA», «Янтарь / JANTAR »
and the barkentines:
и учебные баркентины «Горизонт / HORIZONT», «Штурман / SHTURMAN», «Юнга / JUNGA».

USTRITSA:
After she took water in 1960 she made it to the Lavrov bay where equipment and cargo were salvaged. When the author G. B. Rogosin arrived there in August 1961 she was waterlogged, a wreck without masts and bowsprit.

KREVETKA:
Driven by a storm on the beach at Petropawlowsk where she was abandoned
(year ?).


http://www.infoflotforum.ru/index.php?showtopic=22022

This list of vessels is almost identical with the above one, a few names are missing:
Приписанные к Петропавловску-на-Камчатке шхуны («Акиба», «Актиния», «Белек», «Глобус», «Жемчуг», «Звезда», «Кальмар», «Коралл», «Комета», «Краб», «Креветка», «Медуза», «Мидия», «Нептуния», «Омар», «Осьминог», «Трепанг», «Ульва», «Янтарь» и шхуна-барк (баркентина) «Юнга») были деревянными трехмачтовыми судами.

The schooners AKIBA, AKTINIJA, BELEK, GLOBUS, CHEMTJUG, ZWEZDA, KALMAR, KORALL, KOMETA, KRAB, KREVETKA, MEDUZA, MIDJA, NEPTUNIA, OMAR, OSJMINOG, TREPANG, ULVA, JANTAR and the barkentine JUNGA are mentioned at the top.

Almost at the bottom is the schooner JANTAR mentioned as being lost on a reef while sailing on May 17, 1954 from Petropawlowsk. Because of several incidents due to untrained crews the rigs were reduced. Still the vessels were not well handled, they were soon broken up or used as storage hulks. The remains of one of these still can be seen on the beach of the town Ozernovskij / Kamchatka.


http://www.npacific.ru/np/library/publikacii/questhist/istor-47.htm
Scroll down to a picture of the HORIZONT

In the text there are the schooners AKTINIJA, CHEMTJUG, KORALL, MIDJA and KALMAR mentioned as built in Finland.
парусно-моторные шхуны "Актиния", "Жемчуг", "Коралл", "Мидия", "Кальмар", построенные в Финляндии.

Also the loss of the JANTAR is told (close to the bottom).


The loss of the ALPHA:
http://forum.flot.su/showthread.php?p=18032
Her history is told below the pictures past the link.

In her first 6 years ALPHA was used to carry cargo. For the next 3 years she took over her role as a training vessel. Then the time has com to renew her classification however there was no money for paying the necessary repairs. In the movie "Scarlet Sails" she played the brig "The Secret". In her homeport Rostov-on-Don nobody was interested in the vessel. It was intended to use her as a floating cafe, instead she was moored idle at the city wharf for some years. One day a fire destroyed her rig. After that she was brought to the other side of the river Don where she suffered several fires over the yaers. Her remains are still there however no longer visible.

That does not seem to correspond to the pictures taken between 1965 and 67 (my last post).

If you have counted well you’ll have noticed that we now know the names of 6 more schooners and the fate of 4 more vessels.

Will search a bit more and then update the list.

Regards,
Werner

SteveT
4th December 2008, 23:11
Here are a few more sites:

http://www.1tvrus.com/anonce/domkino/4919/?tz=20
Alpha w/ red sails from the movie

http://www.diary.ru/~oknige/p39909823.htm
scroll down for an even better shot of her w/ the red sails

http://www.polarpost.ru/f/viewtopic.php?id=973
nice shots of the first Zarja

Steve

werner_ju
5th December 2008, 23:12
The following link leads to a forum with a lot of informations:
http://katera.ru/forum/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=10&t=14152
This link does not work properly, if you enter it you cannot read. Instead search for instance for баркентина ГОРИЗОНТ. You might find the link on the first page, enter in Cache. Then you can copy and use Google translation. However the names of the vessels are translated in most cases, not simply transscribed from Cyrillic to Latin. That makes it difficult because you have to learn how to transscribe Cyrillic letters to Latin.

Well I’ve done it for you already, find below what is of interest to us. Keep in mind that our Russian friends don’t know much about the 91 sailing vessels. They are searching the web like we and of course find the same sources. They however found a few Russian publikations. The contents is not always correct but who can say it from Swedish, Finnish or German publications.

Message of July 9, 2007
ZARJA is lost to a fire.

Message of July 11, 2007
One of the authors saw her in the early 1990s in St. Petersburg. When he was on the island of Gogland (a Russian island near Kotka) in 2001 he got 2 "nails" (this is the Google translation) from a lokal of the ZARJA. There are lots of such "nails" on Gogland.

Message of July 9, 2007:
A source is mentioned with just 12 barkentines instead of the 17.

Message of July 10, 2007:
The ZAPAD (SARDINA at that time) sailed for the Estonian Shipping Company as a cargo vessel. In 1954 she became the training vessel ZAPAD at Archangel, since 1983 a memorial.

From the remembrence of a poster on July 10, 2007 the barkentine GEORGIJ RATMANOV in October 1972 was in service (or out of service ?) in Murmansk.

Message of July 11, 2007:
A model building magazine is mentioned were they say that the Bermuda schooners VOSTOK, GLOBUS, ZAPAD, KODOR, SEVER, SHTURMAN, JUG and JUNGA were rebuilt to training vessels.
VOSTOK, KODOR are in my list as such, ZAPAD we just have learned was converted to a training vessel.
SHTURMAN and JUNGA are known as the two Hollming built barkentines (could be wrong of course).
GLOBUS was a gaff schooner.
SEVER is a new name.
JUG is in my list as ZUID which means the same – South. Someone must have translated her name into Dutch. JUG / ЮГ looks from the distance like a name consisting of 3 characters in Latin and Cyrillic. There is a picture of the JUNGA taken from an angle that the name cannot be read. What is visible looks like 3 characters each. JUG might be indeed have been rebuilt to a barkentine.

Further down in this post there is a question:
What have become of the vessels ?
"KROPOTKIN" - in Sewastopol – Restaurant (we have it as monument).
"MENDELEEV" – served as an accomodation vessel for workers.
The other vessels mentioned are known to us.

Message of July 14, 2007:
ZENIT served as a training vessel in the navy.
KODOR plaid an 18. century vessel in a movie filmed in Odessa, then bar in Jalta.
Several schooners were used for constructing a breakwater at Pirite.

Message of July 15, 2007:
Some is repeated from an earlier message, however one new name is mentioned:
The cargo schooner NAHIMOVETS / НАХИМОВЕЦ, later a training vessel and then a de-magnetizing vessel of the navy.

Then there is an interesting list:
Barkentines
1. SEKSTAN - Vladiwostok MinRybHoz ?, decommissioned - 1966
2. KAPELLA - Murmansk / Kerch / Riga, decommissioned - 1969
3. SIRIUS - Leningrad, LVIMU ?, decommissioned - 1971, restaurant KRONVERK, scrapped
4. ALPHA - barkentine - Tallin / Rostow, decommissioned - 1968
5. MERIDIAN (MERIDIANAS) - Kaliningrad / Riga, MRH, decommissioned - 1968, restaurant in Klaipeda
6. ZENIT - Navy, decommissioned
7. HORIZONT - Leningrad / Riga / Far East, MRH, decommissioned - 1965
8. TROPIK - Leningrad / Riga, MRH, decommissioned - 1966
9. IVAN MESJATSEV - Murmansk / Archangel, MRH
10. GEORGIJ RATMANOV - Tuapse? / Murmansk, MRH
11. KROPOTKIN - Leningrad, WMA, decommissioned - 1973, restaurant in Sewastopol, lost to a fire in 1978
12. MENDELEEV - Riga, MRH, decommissioned-1971
13. VEGA - Tallin, decommissioned-79, museum in Pietarsaari, Finland
14. CHAIKA - Lomonosov, WMU
The short terms MRH, LVIMU, WMA and WMU mean the operators (MRH = Minrybhoz).

Schooner
1. SARDINA / ZAPAD - Cargo / Training – Bermuda schooner. - Leningrad / Archangelsk Museum mit 198 ...
2. KAIRA / JUG - Cargo / Training – Bermuda schooner - Leningrad / Murmansk / Odessa, decommissioned 1975
3. VOSTOK - Cargo / Training – Bermuda schooner - Leningrad / Odessa, decommissioned 1975
4. KODOR - Cargo / Training – Bermuda schooner - Leningrad, LVIMU bis 1980. Baku seit 1983, umgebaut in unter 18 Jahren. Dreharbeiten für einen Film in Odessa. Bar auf Jalta.
5. KAPELLA II - Training / Cargo – Bermuda schooner - Leningrad
6. AKADEMIK SHOKALSKIJ - Cargo Gaff-schooner - Leningrad, LVIMU, decommissioned 1965
7. PROFESSOR VIZE - Cargo Gaff-schooner - Leningrad, LVIMU, decommissioned 1965
8. JUNGA - Training – Bermuda schooner - Wladiwostok
9. SHTURMAN - Training - Petropawlowsk
10. GLOBUS - Training / Cargo - Gaffschooner - Wladiwostok.
11. SEVER (?)
12. NAHIMOVETS (?)

Remarks:
2. KAIRA / JUG means that KAIRA was remaned JUG, it is indeed possible that she was converted to barkentine rig at that time.
5. KAPELLA II – Training: The cargo schooner can have been rebuilt to barkentine rig without change of name.
8. SHTURMAN and 9. JUNGA: We know from the seaman (my last post) that both were barkentines.

Message of February 24, 2008:
The homeport of MEDUSA is given as Vladivostok

Another message of February 24, 2008:
The schooner NADEZHDA is sold out of country. In this case the ex SEETEUFEL of Count Luckner (last owner under the German flag was the diver Hans Hass) is meant.


A link in this forum:
http://npacific.kamchatka.ru/np/library/publikacii/questhist/ist-614.htm

Scroll down for a picture of the wrecked KREVETKA. I could identify her because her name and location (without a picture) were mentioned in another link:
http://www.npacific.ru/np/library/publikacii/questhist/ist-613.htm
This one came with my last message.

Best regards,
Werner

SteveT
6th December 2008, 14:05
Hi Werner and all,

More and more is coming to light! I'm going to throw something into the mix and see what you think. I was revisiting a website for the Polar Odyssey Club, and starting to make some connections.

http://web.karelia.ru/po/en/club/index.html

If you look at their "History of the club", you'll see they started in 1978, acquiring a vessel and naming it "Polar Odyssey". A little further down (1983) she is described as 3-masted. I'm going to guess this might have been the "SHTURMAN - Training - Petropawlowsk' from Werner's list. I was going through some of my old clippings, and found an article about her with pictures. Unfortunately my scanner is not currently working, but when I fix it, I'll post scans of the pages. This must be the Polar Odyssey mentioned in the hazegrey list.

Speaking of the Polar Odyssey Club, I found this link with pictures of their vessel San Nicolas:

http://intourist.onego.ru/rus/karelia/parusnik.html

Putting it through Google translation, when you look at the bottom, it mentions a planned brig, Polar Odyssey. A subsequent interview found seems to indicate that plans changed from building the brig, to a different project. Again, thanks to Google translation, which works so much better than the old Altavista Babelfish.

http://vesti.karelia.ru/news/social/194

Steve

GeorgeT
6th December 2008, 17:49
More photos! It turns out that there are quite a few good-quality ones in the Time-Life archives, showing the Gorizont, Sprut, and Neptunija at Singapore in the summer of 1949, on their way to the Soviet Far East. I think the quickest way to get to them is to do a Google picture search on

russian ship source:life

(NB no space either side of the colon).

Searching instead on

soviet ship source:life

turns up another three shots of the Gorizont at the end of the search items, which are bizarrely labelled "armed ship". Can anyone see any guns?!

George

werner_ju
6th December 2008, 19:44
Hi Steve,

The POLAR ODISSEY has nothing to do with the vessels we are looking for.

http://po.karelia.ru/rus/expedition/toll.html
Scroll down to the bottom, there is a picture of her of 1981.

Petrozavodsk is not Petropawlowsk or Petropavlovsk (situated at Kamchatka)

The new POLAR ODISSEY will be a brigantine, there is a stern view of her with her name on while under construction:
http://vesti.karelia.ru/news/social/194

At least we now have the correct spelling of POLAR ODISSEY in Cyrillic. ALL links I've found refer to the club POLAR ODISSEY who are building the vessel.

Regards,
Werner

werner_ju
6th December 2008, 20:18
Hi George

The search for russian ship source:life and soviet ship source:life does not work. If you have the links, please post them.

Werner

GeorgeT
7th December 2008, 10:01
Hello Werner! Sorry if this is a silly question -- but when you were doing the Google search, did you click "images" instead of "web" at the top of the Google page (or whatever the German equivalents are)?

Links (if I can get this to work) are:

http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=russian%20ship%20source%3Alife&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

and

http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=soviet+ship+source%3Alife&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2

George

SteveT
7th December 2008, 15:54
Hi Werner and George,

First, Thanks to George for an amazing discovery. I've found at least 30 pictures so far from the Life archives. I've identified three vessels so far, Horisont, Neptunija (looks like an extra letter in there), and Sprut.

From a different search, I uncovered this shot of two docked side by side, the Langust and Saturn.
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=519eb1442e855ee5&q=Sailing+Ships+source:life&usg=__iew_SBKmR4Z3kUNHG2if0rru2rc=&prev=/images%3Fq%3DSailing%2BShips%2Bsource:life%26start %3D160%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

Also, this one of the Zarja:

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=daf4c2456d1f6930&q=schooner+source:life&usg=__bDiAO1ymE7rT9Dyd6crVg2YuFp0=&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dschooner%2Bsource:life%26start%3D160% 26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

As for the Polar Odyssey, I still think there might be something there. If you translate the timeline, under 1984, it mentions the last year for sailing the wooden version, selling it and buying a larger steel hulled vessel. Perhaps this 2nd one is the picture that you found Werner. I'm going to go back to the magazine article found and research further, then try and write to Victor Dmiitriev for confirmation.

Steve

werner_ju
7th December 2008, 21:35
Hello George and Steve,

George:
Thanks a lot, now it works perfectly. When using the German Google I’ve no choice between web and images. Whenever I searched for "russian ship source:life" ~photo or the like the part source:life was omitted accompanied by an announcement that it cannot be displayd (even without ~photo).

Some notes on the transscription of ship names from Cyrillic to Latin:
The Cyrillic letters are phonic that means if you know the pronounciation of the individual letter you get quite close to the pronounciation of the whole word. That also means that the transscription differes from language to language. Usually the Russians transscribe the ship names to English pronounciation.

The Russions cannot pronounce the "H" except they have practised it. Instead they pronounce it as "G". For instance a teacher of mine named Hans Puhle, as a POW in the Soviet Union was always called Pugle Gans. You might know that the translation of "Hans" into English can be "Jack" or "John". If you translate "Gans" from German then it means "goose".

The appropriate transscription of ГОРИЗОНТ is indeed HORISONT, of course with other names "Г" can be "G".

Said this I must confess that not all Latin written names in my list are correct, I just took what I got from the sources I had. Once I see the name on a ship or a source seems to be plausible I'll correct it. For instance ZARJA will be corrected to ZARYA and HORIZONT to HORISONT.

I haven’t discovered any guns on HORISONT, I guess they had armed guards on board.

Steve:
HORISONT, NEPTUNIJA and SPRUT were already identified by George (NEPTUNIA to NEPTUNIJA see above).

With LANGUST and SATURN another mystery is solved. Now we know that these are 3m-Bermuda schooners. SPRUT I had listed as gaff-schooner, now we know she is Bermuda rigged. The puzzle gets more and more complete although some new questions arise with our findings.

BTW I’ve translated the timeline under 1984. The picture I’ve mentioned was taken during the expedition of 1981. The POLAR ODYSSEY (ПОЛЯРНЫЙ ОДИCCЕЙ = probably POLYARNJY ODISSEY) mentioned under 1978 has an engine of just 20 HP, certainly not powerful enough for a big sailing vessel. Anyhow, asking Victor Dmiitriev for clarification is a good idea, maybe he even knows of the POLYARNJY ODISSEY we are looking for.

Best regards,
Werner

Historicus
13th December 2008, 17:44
Hello Werner !
When I visited the ZARJA here in Antwerp in 1983 the transcription of her Russian name in Latin characters on her bows was clearly ZARJA (and not ZARYA). This is also proven by various photographs that I have of her in my collection.

Best regards,
Luc, Antwerp

werner_ju
13th December 2008, 19:45
Hi Luc,

Good to hear from you, thanks for your correction !
You’r right with ZARJA, two days ago I noticed it while searching the pictures. The only one where I could see it clearly shows two vessels, I had sorted it under the name of the other vessel.

Currently I try getting the old lists and recent new findings into a better order. Some mysteries are solved and new ones turn up. The Båtologen list for instance tells us of 15 built barquentines and refers them to LATE. We know that the Hollming built JUNGA and SHTURMAN also were barkentines. Båtologen just mentiones them as training vessels. According to a Russian source both were built as 3m-Bermuda schooners (cargo). They arrived at Kamchatka as barkentines.

Today I stumbled over this site:
http://www.npacific.ru/np/library/publikacii/questhist/istor-42.htm

It tells an interesting story about shipping in the Kamchatka region. There are several pictures, the last one is of the War Indemnity schooners, the CHEMTJUG. It is quite a bad picture, however the first I’ve seen of her. The relating story starts a bit above the picture. The dates and the ships in the convoys from the Baltic Sea to Kamchatka are mentioned, also some remarks on the condition of the vessels when they arrived. I use Google translation.

Best regards,
Werner

SteveT
18th December 2008, 13:15
Here is order information on the Nautica Fennia 1999 book, with the great article in both Finnish and English:

<Thank you for the inquiry. Nautica Fennica 1999 is available and its price
is 13,98 (VAT 0%), and postage to USA makes 10,45 [UTF-8?]€ (to be payd 24,43 [UTF-8?]€,VAT
0%). Could you check the address on the delivery list attached.

You can pay with a credit card, and you need to fax us the card number, date
of validity and CVC/CVC2 to number +358 9 4050 9400. If you want to ask
something, do not hesitate to contact me.

Best regards,
Eija Putkonen
The National Board of Antiquities, Orders of Publications
P.O.Box 913, FI-00101 HELSINKI
TEL +358 9 4050 9559
FAX +358 9 4050 9400 (The National Museum of Finland)
SÄHKÖP kirjatilaus@nba.fi;eija.putkonen@nba.fi >

Write to them for an order form. My shipment was supposed to take 2-4 weeks, but arrived in only 1 week after faxing the order.

Some great pictures of Medusa, Meridian, Zarja, Professor Vize, H49, and the un-rigged Venera. There are also a few group shots as well as diagrams of the barkentine rig, and the bermuda rig. Of course the best part is the building list, which fills in a few of Werner's missing names. Also of interest is mention of the Korall crossing the Pacific temporarily rigged as a full-rigged ship. This explains the diagram I had seen of her from a now defunct website showing her full-rigged.

I'll tell more later about some of the newly identified names, but for now, I strongly recommend buying a copy if you are interested.

Steve

werner_ju
18th December 2008, 19:38
Hi Steve,

My copy of Nautica Fennica probably will arrive next week.

The drawing of KORALL was at Anatoly’s homepage which no longer exists. However the same drawing (not as clear as we know it) and more appears at:
http://katera.ru/forum/index.php?act...r&f=10&t=14152
This is the site you only can read when entering in cache.

KORALL, ship rigged:
http://katera.ru/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=43158
KORALL was not ship rigged when she made it to the Pacific via Panama Canal. I still have my doubts that she ever had that rig. In Far East Russia they hardly had the ressources for doing it at that times.

Diagram barkentine:
http://katera.ru/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=43159

ZARJA:
http://katera.ru/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=43157

Drawing barkentine:
http://katera.ru/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=43156

Diagram Bermuda schooner:
http://katera.ru/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=43160


Regards,
Werner

werner_ju
25th December 2008, 22:26
Over the past days I’ve made some new discoveries. At
http://npacific.kamchatka.ru/np/library/publikacii/nasledie/nasl-18.htm
and
http://npacific.kamchatka.ru/np/library/publikacii/questhist/istor-55.htm
the history of the nautical college of Petropavlovsk Marine Fischeries College is told. Because of the remotenes and lack of money they for a long time struggled for keeping the college going and recruiting students.

The SHTURMAN was the first of the Finnish built barkentines at Kamchatka, arriving at Petropavlovsk on April 24, 1948 (the Orthodox callendar differs from the Gregorian we use) after an 8 months journey from the Baltics. SHTURMAN was managed by the Kamchatrybflot – Organisationen, responsible for goods and passenger transport along the coasts of the Kamchatka peninsular. Kamchatrybflot provided the permanent crew, the cadets were of the college.

In summer 1948 SHTURMAN made her first training voyage. It is not told when the HORISONT joined in her training role. With the second link there is a picture of her labelled 1947. This however is impossible because HORISONT was delivered in November 1948 and arrived in the Far East in 1949.

The college was not too happy with the barkentines because the season for training under sail was too short. The reasons for were mainly delayed maintenance, crewing problems and a too long ice-bound time. Despite all these difficulties the vessels played a vital part in the training of future navigators and engineers until the barkentines were decommissioned in the early 1960s. On from January 1964 they used an engine driven training vessel of much bigger capacity. On from 1983 the SEDOV made some voyages in European waters with cadets from Kamchatka. By now the PALLADA is used.

To my surprise the YUNGA (JUNGA) is not mentioned in connection with the Petropavlovsk Marine Fischeries College although we have learned that she also sailed with Kamchatrybflot, maybe for another organisation.

At http://www.npacific.ru/np/library/publikacii/questhist/ist-613.htm
there is a picture showing two barkentines at Kamchatka in the 1950s. The vessel in front is a Hollming built which easily can be distinguished from LATE built vessels by her anchors in a higher position. The vessel in the background has the anchors in a lower position, therefore she is the HORISONT. It is most probable that the barkentine in front is the SHTURMAN.

Not so far away from where the schooners and barkentines were built a mystery seems to be solved. I had already mentioned the KIHNU JÖNN at Tallinn. This Finnish site
http://www.turunsanomat.fi/sunnuntai/?ts=1,3:1012:0:0,4:12:0:1:2004-08-08,104:12:242178,1:0:0:0:0:0:
tells us (last column) that the PROFESSOR RUDOVITS became an office at the Tallinn Pirita stadium beside Kihnu Jönn, the name of a restaurant. Because there are not so many candidates my conclusion is that she got the same name as the shore based restaurant, serving as a youth club.

Before you reach to the last column you’ll find a painting of the VEGA and a photo of her at Pietersaari / Jakobstad.

With my message of December 5th I had given this link,
http://katera.ru/forum/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=10&t=14152
instead use the following, this works:
http://katera.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=14152

In a message of 14 July 14, 2007 it is said that in 1959 several schooners were used for constructing a mole at Pirite. Because Pirita Stadium sounds similar I’ve googled for Pirite in Cyrillic characters with the result that I got a link to Tallinn. Pirite is indeed the same as Pirita in Estonian language, a part of Tallinn and the name of a river flowing through it. Now we know where the "several schooners" are.

While searching for JUG and JUNGA I found that the same names for modern vessels are transscribed as YUG and YUNGA.

Unluckily the Edit function doesn’t work with Shipsnostalgia which prevents me from correcting errors in previous messages.

Regards,
Werner

werner_ju
27th December 2008, 20:11
Googling in German for "Sowjet Schoner" brought to light some more details on ZAPAD:
http://www.sagen.at/fotos/showphoto.php/photo/10314

Originally used for carrying cargo (SARDINA). After being rebuilt as a training vessel ZAPAD made her first voyage in 1954 with 44 cadets on board of the Arkhangelsk Woronin-Maritime College (the oldest in Russia).
Altogether about 5000 cadets from all over the Soviet Union practised on board ZAPAD in the years from 1954 to 1976. In honour of the Arkhangelsk 400 years jubilee (1984) she was placed on the Red Wharf.
Since then the vessel is one of the most importand attractions and a landmark of the town – as a remembrance of Arkhangelsk as the first Russian port. Unfortunately the schooner currently is in a very bad shape. The last renovation took place in 1991. By the end of the 1990s the schooner has lost its masts in a gale.

Regards,
Werner

jay cresswell
4th January 2009, 11:41
Guys
Here y'go, a pic of the Kodor taken during a visit to Baku in the mid 1990s
Jay Cresswell
Aberdeen

jay cresswell
4th January 2009, 11:49
And a second image of Kodor, Baku, mid 1990s

werner_ju
4th January 2009, 23:21
Hello Jay,

Thanks a lot for posting the two KODOR pictures. This vessel is among the very few of which we know at least a little more than its building data. By now I’ve searched the web for several weeks. What I found in Russian sites are always the same vessels, mostly the ones sailing in the Far East and the training vessels, in both cases certainly not complete. Not even of the training vessels do we know all the names.

Regards,
Werner

GeorgeT
8th January 2009, 08:52
Nice to see the colour pics of the Kodor -- thanks!

Here's another contribution to the jigsaw.

Beginning in 1948, the Soviets sent herring-fishing expeditions from Kaliningrad to the Iceland fishing grounds. The 1950 expedition set out in late spring, and a few months later the schooner Jupiter was sent out from Kaliningrad with a cargo of fresh vegetables and salt in barrels, with a view to bringing back herring from the fleet. She reportedly left Kaliningrad on 1 August 1950, and reached the Iceland fishing grounds after a difficult 17-day voyage during which her diesel repeatedly broke down.

Once she was there the diesel failed yet again during a storm. A trawler tried to take her in tow, but they made a heavy contact and seriously damaged her bowsprit; the mizzen mast broke shortly afterwards, and she was driven onto rocks just off shore. All of the crew managed to reach dry land, but at least one man died there as a result of injuries. They were picked up by a boat from the base ship Tungus.

The story can be found at these pages in the online newspaper Kaliningradskaya pravda:

http://www.kaliningradka.ru/newshow.php?newsid=24877
http://www.kaliningradka.ru/newshow.php?newsid=27012

It should be noted that the account is based not on written archival material but on the recollections of a few people who were involved -- one on the Jupiter itself, one from one of the trawlers on the scene, and one from the shore headquarters in Kaliningrad. There is disagreement among them as to the identity of the man who lost his life, and one should be wary of the fallibility of memory on points of detail (e.g. dates) after more than half a century has passed.

As regards her identity, in the list given in Nautica Fennica there are two ships with the name Jupiter: Laivateollisuus no. 24 and Hollming no. 10. The completion dates given there, if correct, would rule out the former (not commissioned till April or May 1951) -- yet this date seems suspiciously long after her launch, and in the list posted by Werner above her delivery date is actually given as June 1950. As tends to happen when researching the history of Soviet shipping, we may have to settle for an 'either/or' identification . . .

werner_ju
8th January 2009, 10:54
Hi George,

A very interesting find indeed, thanks a lot for posting.

My Nautica Fennica copy has not yet arrived, after 2 and a half weeks after sending so I still depend on the list once published by Båtologen. Two JUPITERs however make sense. The Hollming built one became the very early loss described in the news links. The Laivateollisuus no. 24 is one of the unnamed 3-masted schooners in the Båtologen list which might well have been named JUPITER after the loss of the first one, will update my list accordingly.

I don’t know if the Russians follow the same practise like the Scandinavian countries for not giving the same name at the same time to more than 1 registred seagoing vessel. To me the problem of the 2 KAPELLAs is not yet solved.

Another interesting statement from news links is that there were 4 schooners based at Kaliningrad of which 3 were converted to training vessels. Based at Kaliningrad does not necessarily mean that it was their port of registry. There were indeed several schooners which became training vessels.

Once I’m through the Nautica Fennica list I’ll publish an updated list.

Best regards,
Werner

werner_ju
11th January 2009, 22:14
My Nautica Fennica copy finally arrived on last Friday. It indeed is a great source in addition to the Båtologen list. Many mysteries are solved, however new ones came to light. By now I’ve more names than listed with Båtologen and Nautica Fennica.

Of the 17 Barkentines mentioned by the latter 16 are named and allocated to building numbers, the 17th remains a mystery. At Båtologen the LATE (Laivateollisuus) No. L-43 is a Barkentine while with Nautica Fennica it is the
3m-Bermuda-schooner KAPELLA (II), also a training vessel.

It is now clear that the same names existed at the same time twice or even more. N.F. mentiones a third KAPELLA as unidentified. N.F. has two TSHAIKAs, a barkentine and a 3m-gaff-schooner. The cargo schooner TSHAIKA in the Far East cannot have been sunk in Lovisa, Estonia. That means that there were 3 TSHAIKAs unless the barkentine isn’t the scuttled one.

Because the Ministry of Geology given as the operator of L-35 it is most likely that this number became the POLYARNYY ODISSEY. The as unidentified listed KIHNU JÖNN ex PROFESSOR RUDOVITS and LUNA are Hollming built. The Hollming vessels can be easily distinguished from LATE builds on pictures showing their bows. The Hollming built ones have their anchor howses in a higher position.

L-18, KAIRA / JUG seems to indicate that JUG was KAIRAs later name. It is unlikely that the KAIRA, still operating out of Murmansk in 1970 as a motor coaster (reduced rig, no sails) made it to the Black Sea and renamed JUG / YUG after 1970. I think that YUG is a different schooner.

The different spelling of L-27, KUPY / KÕPU in the two lists made me curious about the origins of that name, also I had no trasscription into Cyrillic. The N.F. list in Finnish brought the solution, KYPU (Estonian) / KÕPU (Finnish) is a place name in Estonia (in the Swedish list "Y" and "U" were exchanged). Now I know why a Russian friend could not transscribe, he was not familiar with this and other names. However since I learned how to look for I found some transscriptions. There are at least two more ship names referring to Estonian place names which are solved, MYNTU / MÕNTU and TAHKUNA.

Currently I’m updating my Excel list which as such cannot be published at Shipsnostalgia. It will take a while until I get a word document ready. Before I publish this I’ll contact the editor of N.F. The permission from Båtologen was given to Luc a few years ago.

Best regards,
Werner

haasenpeter
19th July 2010, 13:37
hi guys,

I visited the VEGA in Turku. She is under restauration since several years. They replace almost everything piece by piece. Until now they replaced about one quarter started from the bow and almost the whole stern. I attach some picture where you can see one of the chairman standing on the maindeck and you can see the new frames of the bow and a view below deck from the old part ino the new bow . Interesting is the way to build this huge frames: same as original they glew the frames to several layers of planks! I will try to post more photos later but now I have only slow internet access.

Peter

werner_ju
19th August 2010, 23:17
Hi Peter,

Thanks a lot for the update and pictures of VEGA. There were no news available of her for years. It looks like she one day will emerge from the barn like a new built ship. The same happened to her namesake in Sweden, the Baltic trader VEGA, a 3m-schooner.

Unluckily I had to stop me searches due to lack of time. Also my request for permission on using data from Nautica Fennica was never answered.

Best regards,
Werner

stein
20th August 2010, 16:30
Alfa (Alpha) in Plymouth 1954.

werner_ju
8th October 2010, 21:22
Hello,

After a long time without searching for tall ships I’m trying to keep up at least for a limited time.

Some pictures of War Indemnity schooners and barkentines of which we had none before came to light with the following link:
http://www.cartalana.ru/morflot-30.php

Of the first pictures the one on the right is the barkentine KAPELLA (HORISONT to the left and TROPIK below).
Then follows the barkentine CHAIKA or TSHAIKA.

Further down are the Bermuda schooners VOSTOK (left) and YUG (right).

Of all of the following vessels there are pictures known to some of us already. VEGA-II means that there was a VEGA before which fell victim to WW II.

There is a good picture of KIHNU JÖNN at:
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/239641/title/kihnu-jonn/cat/524

Regards,
Werner

Johan_r
20th October 2010, 19:18
Vega is beeing restaurated in Pietarsaari (Jakobstad) 430 km north of Turku. That's a fact that it will not be almost anything left of the original Vega when she is restaurated.

Does anyone have any information about Meridianas in Klaipeda? I have understood that she is also under restauration now.

Regards,
Johan