How to Splice a Wire Rope

Arthur Jenner
5th February 2009, 06:24
HOW TO SPLICE A WIRE ROPE
by AJ
I don't suppose that anyone who reads this article will ever be called upon to actually splice a wire rope, but as we all know, you can never tell when, during some emergency, someone will say, `Is there anyone here who is able to splice this wire rope?' Then you will be able, proudly but modestly, to raise your hand and reply, `Yes, I can. Do you want a long splice, a short splice, an eye splice, or would you like me to put a thimble in the end? The only trouble is that I haven't brought my marlin-spike with me.'
It may be a matter of life and death, or perhaps I should say, lives and deaths, because it could actually come to that you know. That is why you should always carry a marlin-spike. It isn't exactly the ideal tool for carrying in one's trouser pocket though, because, unless the pocket is specially reinforced, the sharp end would most likely pierce the bottom of it, allowing the marlin-spike to fall down your leg and cause a nasty injury to your foot. There other ways to carry it, however, and one of these is, if you happen to be a lady, in your handbag. It will of course make the reticule rather heavy, and may cause the carrying strap to break eventually So if you are a lady, and if you are considering carrying a spike, make sure that you have a heavy duty handbag.
The marlin-spike is a bit awkward for a man to carry, but thanks to the little hole in the blunt end, it can be threaded on to a piece of heavy string or a ropeyarn and either slung across your shoulder or suspended from your belt. Spunyarn could be used instead of string, but it smells a bit of stockholm tar, and some people might not like that very much. Actually I think it's a much nicer smell than either after-shave or garlic, but I suppose not everyone has my kind of nose. They should think themselves very lucky because my nose has got some disadvantages as well. It tends to get blocked up fairly often and it isn't always easy to clear. I expect you are going to say, `Why don't you use your marlin-spike to dig out the bogies or whatever they are', aren't you. Well I don't mind because I'm used to bloody smart Alecs like you, butting in when I'm trying to write a serious article.
I suppose I've wandered away from the subject of wire splicing a bit, but then it is no good trying to teach someone something if you don't give them some idea of the tools that they will have to use. For instance, imagine trying to explain how to make a piece of furniture. `Take a saw and cut a piece off a lump of wood.' The person reading that might wonder what on earth a saw was. He might think it was like a marlin-spike. Imagine trying to cut wood with a marlin-spike.
A marlin-spike may not be much use to you if you want to splice a very large wire and you haven't got a vice. Now I'm not silly enough to suggest that you carry a vice around on your person. If you have a car though, it might be a good idea to carry one of those little portable workbenches in the boot. If there isn't much room in it, you could always leave the spare wheel at home, or if you are too chicken to do that, you could put it in the back seat and leave the kids at home. I don't think that there is going to be much room in this article to describe how to actually perform the splice, because I'm limited by my controller to a certain number of words, so if you want to complain, write to him, not me; and perhaps he'll commission me to write a second instalment.
One final word of warning. If you are a gentleman, and have decided to carry your marlin-spike in your pocket with the blunt end down, be very careful when you put your hand in to get your pipe and matches, because you could impale your wrist on it. It may be advisable to wear one of those wide leather wrist-straps.
(to be continued)
(perhaps)

John Crossland
5th February 2009, 06:32
(Thumb)

mike N
5th February 2009, 10:59
Brilliant Arthur.
Mike(Thumb)

Peter Fielding
5th February 2009, 11:32
Arthur,
When you eventually get round to actually describing how to splice a wire rope, I suspect it may come as something of an anticlimax after this hilarious preamble!

Arthur Jenner
5th February 2009, 12:16
(Thumb)

Yes John. If there is one item that is essential for wire rope splicing, it is a good picture of an 'I' boat, especially if it is to be an 'I' splice.

Fieldsy
5th February 2009, 15:14
HOW TO SPLICE A WIRE ROPE
by AJ
I don't suppose that anyone who reads this article will ever be called upon to actually splice a wire rope...

My time had finally come - asked to splice a wire rope for the first time in my life. 'No problem' sez I - remembering seeing the heading of Arthur's post. Wrestled the ends of a greasy wire into my lounge (where my PC is), withdrew my spike from it's home in my nether regions, and clicked on the link ready to follow the expected guidance.

I've totally lost face with the local Brownie pack and terrified I won't get the grease stains out of the carpet before the missus returns.

Thanks Arthur.

Jeffers
5th February 2009, 15:28
I can just imagine what a policeman would have to say to you if you got spotted carrying a marlin spike...
"Now then sir, you say you've got it in case someone needs a wire rope splicing, eh? I think we'll talk about that down at the station"

Peter Jenner
5th February 2009, 16:02
That Knot's funny.

Doug Jenner
5th February 2009, 16:31
No wonder I grew up not knowing how to splice a wire rope. Thanks, Dad!

John Briggs
5th February 2009, 18:17
Brilliant Arthur! Hurry up with the next installment.

Santos
5th February 2009, 18:43
Splices - Oh happy days, I was taught as a Cadet to Splice both Rope and wire and with my fellow cadets was often called on to splice eyes in the new mooring ropes and wire springs.

We used to do this in the Cargo sheds ashore before they were loaded onto the ship and whilst we were working by the ships after our leave had ended. We had a little work bench with a vice on it for the steel wire but used to sit inside the mooring rope coils when splicing them.

Chris.

Sister Eleff
5th February 2009, 19:25
No wonder I grew up not knowing how to splice a wire rope. Thanks, Dad!

Another 'Jenner' on the site, welcome Doug. Can we expect more yarns to the standard that Arthur has set?

Arthur Jenner
5th February 2009, 20:27
I think I might have raised the hopes of some of the unfortunate people who read my scribblings. The secret society of ancient sailors has forbidden me to reveal the secrets the actual use of the spike and I am terrified that if I tell any more secrets they will tie marline splikes to my toes and drop me in deepest of the deep 'you know what', so I implore you to ignore my previous instructions and go back to bed.
Any ex AB's of my vintage will obviously be expert in use of the spike and will naturally knock up a Liverpool splice for you at the drop of a hat.
Ta ta for now

Ian6
5th February 2009, 20:40
I want to know what Santos's vice was that he kept on a bench. Was it not house trained ? Was it the vice that cannot be mentioned ?

On the other hand, Arthur should be declared a national treasure, or something. What's going on in the hand that isn't occupied by Arthur ?

More please.

Ian

Derek Roger
5th February 2009, 21:09
Glad I am an engineer and the only thing I needed in my pockets were a torch ( flash light for the rest of you ) and a "shifter" ( adjustable wrench for the rest of you )

Would rather clean a purifier ( centrifuge for the rest of you ) than try to splice a wire rope .

Derek

Santos
5th February 2009, 21:58
I want to know what Santos's vice was that he kept on a bench. Was it not house trained ? Was it the vice that cannot be mentioned ?


Ian

All that I can remember Ian is that she was about 5' 4" , blue eyes oops
(Jester) actually it was painted green (POP)

Chris

steve todd
5th February 2009, 22:20
Brute force and ignorance was what a lampy on the Argentina Star taught me. Year later I was still at it making the 12" dia slings that lifted the Piper Alpha rig jacket out of Cherbourge. I'm the geezer in the hard hat.

Steve Todd

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trucker
6th February 2009, 09:40
once you join the marlin spike to the wire,before parting the wire. before the first tuck.make sure you don,t break the poor wire,s heart.(Jester)

Doug Jenner
6th February 2009, 11:14
Another 'Jenner' on the site, welcome Doug. Can we expect more yarns to the standard that Arthur has set?

No, Sister - I'll leave all the yarns to the old man. If you want a newsletter or brochure on the other hand...

deckboypeggy
7th February 2009, 12:43
Brute force and ignorance was what a lampy on the Argentina Star taught me. Year later I was still at it making the 12" dia slings that lifted the Piper Alpha rig jacket out of Cherbourge. I'm the geezer in the hard hat.

Steve Todd

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12294
3 very intresting phots. that is splicing that is one claim to fame all of you i bet you never used a serving board.worm and parcel with the lay turn and serve the other way, that has never left me,i would say you are or were riggers on the highest level. we used to cut the heart out..

jim barnes
12th February 2009, 02:29
cant wait for the FID to apear???

Arthur Jenner
12th February 2009, 05:40
cant wait for the FID to apear???

If you are not very careful, I may just do that. I may subject you to the explanation of the necessity of always being in possession of a large FID just in case you are suddenly called upon to put an eye in a very, very large rope.
So just you watch out Jim Barnes

jim barnes
12th February 2009, 15:25
another point regarding the splicing of the wire rope and a said vice been necessitated? well by golly by gum and a monkey loose up the for mast! as i remember the wire was lashed to a satisfactory point on the bulk head or even to a water tight door and then it was made ready and usually the chippy or a scary old AB would proceed to teach the deck boy or jos how to proceed and to teach him how to insert the SPIKE(care full how you say that) then after being shown then it was the turn of the D/B or JOS to do it and struggle funny how it looked so simple! ??
Then it was eyes in the Polly ropes and more confusion with eight strands and wait for it another piece of kit a FID, or as the hard knocks said "every finger a spike and every thumb a fid,,,question any good at tying boot laces, been told cant wear rigger boots any more on site. lol

PollY Anna
13th February 2009, 12:25
Hi Jim (Barnes)

The first time I saw a large mooring rope Fid used in earnest was when a Bosun used it to defend himself against 2 drunken Ab's he didn't hit them with it until they stepped over the door sill in to his cabin. No names no pack drill but it was very effective he only hit them twice very neat and effect splice. The size and weight of that very large tool made from Lingnan Vite (the only wood that doesn't float to dense). Later that trip I saw it used for the purpose it was designed for funny enough it was one of the Ab's that it had been on the receiving end which I thought at the time rather a funny little twist all was forgiven when both sobered up. They came back from ashore drunk it didn't happen at sea but tied up in port.

Regards Ron

jim barnes
13th February 2009, 12:36
yes a very usefull tool in all sorts of situations, i believe in the days of sail the thole pins (i think thats what they where called) where used to fasten the rigging to the ships gun wales, similar to large FIDS but also part of the Bosuns taking charge kit if you get my gist !!!

hughesy
13th February 2009, 13:24
Thats the biggest splice, I"ve ever seen, and got photos to prove too.
I do elevator ropes and these Gobby septic tanks think they have the market
cornered, "Half of em could'nt rig a good s--te in a Laxative factory, in my humble opinion"
I quote "Hey how come you know all them sailor knots MF limmey" duh
But me being a foreginer an all, we don't have stuff like that in our small fishing villages.(HULL)
I remember my uncle telling us about them polyproplene ropes splicing them,
its a dying art, because here, anyway thers no splices all has to factory rigged now, for slings and things like that.
I'm not saying owt else, (Thumb)
All the best
Hughesy

Arthur Jenner
13th February 2009, 21:20
Thats the biggest splice, I"ve ever seen, and got photos to prove too.
I do elevator ropes and these Gobby septic tanks think they have the market
cornered, "Half of em could'nt rig a good s--te in a Laxative factory, in my humble opinion"
I quote "Hey how come you know all them sailor knots MF limmey" duh
But me being a foreginer an all, we don't have stuff like that in our small fishing villages.(HULL)
I remember my uncle telling us about them polyproplene ropes splicing them,
its a dying art, because here, anyway thers no splices all has to factory rigged now, for slings and things like that.
I'm not saying owt else, (Thumb)
All the best
Hughesy

What is all this polyproplene nonsense. Real ropes are made of sisal, manila or hemp; occasionally cotton. Although, come to think of it, I believe I did see a nylon rope once.

hughesy
13th February 2009, 22:25
Yeah Arthur me uncle said the same thing, we only use manila for hoisting and stay away from the man made rope, for the obivious reasons.
We used to socket and babitt the ropes on elevators now we have a wedge system so all those old babitting skills are now longer needed.
Its quicker and easier, but it took a lot of skill the old way to get them ropes right.
I get sounding older every day lol(Thumb)

all the best
Hughesy

ddraigmor
13th February 2009, 23:02
Splicing? Oh such fun. Bleeding fingers (wire ropes) more grease on you than the wire, muscles aching....and always -ALWAYS - some expert who would look disdainfully at it and say 'Crap. Now, in my day....'.

Had to do one for my EDH and after that about ten snotters for cargo work on supply ships until the Elf and safety Gremlins banned them.

Multiplait....now that was an art. I was always dead chuffed I could splice multiplait and we did it too frequently....but I once watched an auld hand do what he called a 'BP Splice'. It was multiplait but he tapered it so that it looked absolutely gorgeous. I mean that. It was a work of art, with the ends whipped together and no gaffer tape anywhere in sight. Now that was a seaman!

Mine looked like blocks and had to be beaten into shape with a fid or small lump hammer. The ends were always whipped though - otherwise they looked amatuerish after a few uses!

Keep it up Arthir!

Jonty

colin richardson
13th February 2009, 23:27
prior to your marlin spike there was lignamvita,
a wood as hard as steel,in wire there was two splices the first in wire was the 3 2 1 basicley a plat, in the 70s cranes rather then derricks started unloading cargoes ie derricks worked in tandam so cranes had the talent for spinning,so the could unwind, so riggers+seaman came up with the idea of a bolivant same idea as a 321 but the 6th strand ran back on itself,so when the cargo span as it so often did the splice never unwinded, saved lives....

hughesy
14th February 2009, 02:59
hey Colin
Thats really intresting about that locking tuck being anti spin, we put anti spin lashings on the ropes of a high traction elevator due to the spin it creates,going over the machine, also I believe the lay of the rope itsself can help with this in an elevator situtation, depending on the number of sheaves the rope goes over. Its a job getting them on sometimes too.
hey Jonty sounds like me Uncle's Jacks work your on about there china, lol
every finger a "spike" eh lol

All the best
Hughesy

ddraigmor
14th February 2009, 22:31
Hughsey,

Seriously. I have never seen a neater splice. It was absolutely perfect. It tapered down beautifully and the ends were whipped together so that it looked like it had four wee shoots coming from the end that looked - from a distance - as if they were joined like a circle around the rope itself.

Like I said, mine worked - but they were ugly!

Never sailed with a Jack!

Jonty

shipboard
15th February 2009, 02:48
Reading the posts with interest, as an Bosun on the Australian coast we always had to use the Australian locking splice. This was over one and under two against the lay thus making the whole splice anti spin. Also we never cut out the heart but separated it and run it in with the strands.

shipboard.

Phil Houghton
16th February 2009, 11:24
My oh my wonderous times!!!!! My first wire splice was learned in anger by a Bosun from the very north throwing the wire around a set of bits on the ar*e end and chucking a splice in the mooring wire in what appeared to be seconds then passing the wire that I had just parted and shoving the Marlin Spike in me hand and saying youve seen me do one now get to it as we are waiting to complete mooring operations, needless to say with several burley AB's glaring at me I got the job done in a not to bad a fashion lesson learnt fast(dont part wires it saves splicing). Years later Engineers required some stroppes etc of varying length to be thrown up for moving some gear down below so me gets me spike and wire and sets too under the focsle when one of the young AB's walks in and askes what im doing, why splicing I respond, dont machines do that now and I said yes we are machines at times but if it was not for us learning this delicate and somewhat intricate art most jobs would not be able to be completed.
I must say I enjoyed splicing whether Wire or rope and one engineer I sailed with knocked up a set of Brass / steel Marlin spikes for Myself and box of toys to use. Sadly our friends from the elf and safety had brainwashed the company into purchasing new gear made up with Tallurite Ferrulles which in some cases made the handling of strops ten times worse. Lignum Vitae used to be used in the tail shatf glands as well if my memory serves me well

Phil

captainchris
16th February 2009, 20:02
I believe it is against 'elf and safety now, except in an emergency to do splicing. Everything has to be "certified" so hardly any seaman can actually do a splice nowadays.

Chris

Arthur Jenner
16th February 2009, 21:55
I believe it is against 'elf and safety now, except in an emergency to do splicing. Everything has to be "certified" so hardly any seaman can actually do a splice nowadays.

Chris

So what the 'ell do seamen do nowadays. It seems to me that they have become redundant

hughesy
16th February 2009, 23:29
Like I said before , all those old skills are dying off, seems like theres no one to pass them on.
Unless your really lucky and are a situation where they are used, like a sailing ship type enviroment.
Was talking to the riggers in this place we go to here to get slings etc, all done by a huge press, just presses on those clips and there you go, get out of the place in 15 mins.
Some of the people I work with have a celebration if they get a bowline right.
Makes you wonder, theres no short cut to experience, but they kept trying to find a way.
Seems to me they always come up short, its all about the "bean counters" stream lining every thing to save a dollar.
Well thats me rant for the day.

All the best
Hughesy

Santos
16th February 2009, 23:37
Perhaps in these days of litigation its a good job we dont do what we did otherwise we could be blamed for any failure of ropes, wires etc that we had worked on and our lives ruined by people after a quick buck.

Chris

PollY Anna
17th February 2009, 10:07
The 'elf and safety crowd see a knot or splice in a rope and it looks so flimsy and they think that looks dangerous how can people trust their life to that it makes them soil their underwear. They have never been near or tried a splice. This is the trouble with society today their are people passing laws all over the place who have no know comprehension of what, when, where or how.
It's, I find a very sad world run by bureaucrats. I am afraid that common sense is not very common.

That's my moan for the day. Now I can smile for the rest of it.

Regards Ron

frogger
19th March 2009, 01:27
Any trawlerman can knock in a splice.

jim barnes
19th March 2009, 02:06
So what the 'ell do seamen do nowadays. It seems to me that they have become redundant
You are correct they where but not made proper redundant more like replaced with cheaper versions, my grump of the day?(Cloud)

trucker
19th March 2009, 21:08
Any trawlerman can knock in a splice.

every finger a marlin spike.[or is that fish finger].(==D)

Bill Davies
19th March 2009, 21:27
Plenty of talk on this thread.
I just wonder how many have actually sliced wire.

trucker
19th March 2009, 21:34
Plenty of talk on this thread.
I just wonder how many have actually sliced wire.

still can ,even though been retired[early] a few year.like most trades ,you never forget ,how.

ROBERT HENDERSON
19th March 2009, 22:07
Plenty of talk on this thread.
I just wonder how many have actually sliced wire.

I am not sure if I could still splice wire, but I certainly did when I sailed as AB, I learnt as OS on the Baron Douglas.

Regards Robert

R798780
19th March 2009, 23:59
I Sadly our friends from the elf and safety had brainwashed the company into purchasing new gear made up with Tallurite Ferrulles which in some cases made the handling of strops ten times worse. Lignum Vitae used to be used in the tail shatf glands as well if my memory serves me well

Phil
The day the derrick fell down on Luminetta, (one of my ghost/s of Christmas past) it was a tallurite ferrule which failed. When the derrick was straightened and re rigged it was with a hand spliced topping lift.

Later in life, on Lucerna, I ommitted to order an eye in the new mooring spring wire.

Comment from the crew was "who is going to splice that for you". One man could and started the job, but had to pay of with injury on another account. so the wire was left. We got a new crew, CPR ratings and Hong Kong POs. The wire was spliced next day; I was told it was done. With the trauma of discharging gasoline in New York and a US Coast Guard inspection I had forgotten it. (USCG in N.Y. !!! Wilbur Archer Baker III !!!............if it was written in the wrong font it had to be put right)

Santos
20th March 2009, 00:10
Plenty of talk on this thread.
I just wonder how many have actually sliced wire.

Got to say something controversial Bill, things too quiet for you ?

Oh I forgot, you wont be seeing this reply - perhaps some kind member would be kind enough to pass it on.

Chris.

dom
20th March 2009, 10:34
sliced wire or spliced wire???

jim barnes
20th March 2009, 13:46
Plenty of talk on this thread.
I just wonder how many have actually sliced wire.
SLICED?(Jester)

Bill Davies
20th March 2009, 19:01
sliced wire or spliced wire???

Dom,

You have cost me a tenner today as I had a bet with two other members that my 'regular spell checker' would be in like a flash.
However, well spotted. You Sparkies are amazing!

Brgds

Bill

price
20th March 2009, 21:00
Some of the best wire splicing that I have ever seen was when I had a short spell working down the mines in the 1950s. We had a continuous wire that was moving all the time that we clamped the trucks to, the wire ran through the clamps and a lever on the clamp tightened the clamp around the moving wire. The wire was joined by a long splice, using perhaps 40feet or possible more on each splice, the splice had to be so smooth that it could not be detected by feel or eye, all repairs to the continuous wire were treated in the same way.
Bruce.

Bill Davies
20th March 2009, 21:19
Bruce,
That sounds about right and 40 feet is to be expected. The long splice as you describe is in essence finished off for the last fathom or so as for a flemish to give the taper.

Brgds

Bill

trucker
20th March 2009, 21:29
as said before the only thing about the long splice was the amount of length used.but naturaly the only splice suitable for repairing running gear.i.e parted runner,s..so they could fit through the cargo ,snatch blocks etc. flemish,thought that was a language.

dom
21st March 2009, 02:17
Dom,

You have cost me a tenner today as I had a bet with two other members that my 'regular spell checker' would be in like a flash.
However, well spotted. You Sparkies are amazing!

Brgds

Bill

thank you,but me a sparkie??no just an old common garden variety of AB

Bill Davies
21st March 2009, 10:06
Dom,

No offence meant in referring to you as a Sparkie.

Brgds

Bill

dom
21st March 2009, 11:19
no offence ment and certainly no offence taken,its a pity that splicing has been taken away from onboard duties,at one time on board we did all the splicing,each splice was tagged with the wire cert No, SWL. it was inspected by myself and the ships medic/safety officer and tracked throughout use,also at that time we were told to use safety harness when painting over the side and on the bridge front ,this we refused to do

trucker
21st March 2009, 12:30
what did the medic/safety officer have to do with issueing crtificates for .sw.loads.on wire splices.any certicates issued as far as i know ,were by the maker/board of trade when recieving pre-spliced wires from shore side.so if the said wire failed after splicing,the medic/safety officer would be responsible.yes wires did come with S.W.L certicates.what did your safety officer say about you,refusing to wear safety harnesses over the side.(EEK)

dom
21st March 2009, 13:11
the medic/safety officer didnt issue the certs.the wire would come aboard on reel of say 200m.with it came a bullivants cert.and batch No,if the drill floor wanted 4 strops or slings they would be spliced and a tag with a SWL put on it,this would then be entered in the wire rope log that was kept,we started this method to keep the wire splicing going on board as the wire strops started coming aboard with the metal clamps on them,as for the safety harness it turned into a bun fight,we asked him to explain how we could use safety harness if none were on board he replied that we could use a gantline round our waist and make the end fast up top

trucker
21st March 2009, 13:20
the medic/safety officer didnt issue the certs.the wire would come aboard on reel of say 200m.with it came a bullivants cert.and batch No,if the drill floor wanted 4 strops or slings they would be spliced and a tag with a SWL put on it,this would then be entered in the wire rope log that was kept,we started this method to keep the wire splicing going on board as the wire strops started coming aboard with the metal clamps on them,as for the safety harness it turned into a bun fight,we asked him to explain how we could use safety harness if none were on board he replied that we could use a gantline round our waist and make the end fast up top

cheer ,s much clearer now.(Thumb)

Klaatu83
21st March 2009, 15:06
I can't testify as to the British Merchant Navy, but in the U.S. Merchant Marine the ability to splice wire rope was among the requirements to qualify to be an Able Seaman. On those occasions when a mooring wire parted our A.B.s could, and would, spice a new eye in the end of them. It wasn't regarded as any great accomplishment in the art of seamanship, simply part of the job.

Pat Kennedy
21st March 2009, 15:19
I can't testify as to the British Merchant Navy, but in the U.S. Merchant Marine the ability to splice wire rope was among the requirements to qualify to be an Able Seaman. On those occasions when a mooring wire parted our A.B.s could, and would, spice a new eye in the end of them. It wasn't regarded as any great accomplishment in the art of seamanship, simply part of the job.

True also of the British Merchant Navy. we had to be able to splice rope and wire as part of EDH practical exam. We routinely spliced wire in most ships I was in and gave it little thought, but the gargantuan wires spliced by Steve Todd earlier in this thread would have given me pause for thought. That is serious splicing.
I did an eye splice in wire a couple of months ago, just to see if I still could. It was difficult because my hands and fingers dont have the strength and flexibility they had 45 years ago.
The man who taught me wire splicing was Denis O'Brien,ex bosun, and instructer at Alfred Holt's deck boy training school, and he was a master, who overpowered the wire with sheer brute strength. When OB taught you something, you tended to stay taught.
Pat

Bill Davies
21st March 2009, 15:22
I can't testify as to the British Merchant Navy, but in the U.S. Merchant Marine the ability to splice wire rope was among the requirements to qualify to be an Able Seaman. On those occasions when a mooring wire parted our A.B.s could, and would, spice a new eye in the end of them. It wasn't regarded as any great accomplishment in the art of seamanship, simply part of the job.

Exactly, and that is my point. All members of my vintage I am sure are proficient in this art however, I cannot guarantee those entering the profession in recent years are capable of splicing wire rope to an acceptable level. We just do not have the trainers in our colleges to instruct on basics.

Nick Balls
21st March 2009, 15:39
The man who originally taught me to splice was an Old Indian Chipppy 37 years ago. His techniques seemed to me to originate in Victorian times BUT he was simply brilliant to watch!
I learnt, forgot, and then in time saw the demise of ordinary proper splicing as Certification became important and the Tulurit became king.
Then I had to learn it all over again when I restored an 80 year old wooden sailing boat. This time an 80 year old Ex British AB taught me.
They were smallish wires but we got them all sorted out properly , including some nice worm and parcel with the lay!
A few years later , and with many sea miles under her the boat was sold and I was casually informed by the so called surveyor that the new owner would require all new rigging as insurance required proper swaged eyes!
My reply, that he already had the real proper rigging fell on deaf ears and that was that!

Bill Davies
21st March 2009, 15:54
Yes, I would support totally what Pat Kennedy has said re Denis O'Brien although I was never a student of his I knew him very well and knew him to be an excellent sailor and wire splicer. My own training in this area post Aberdovey came from Marine Stores in Odyssey Works (Dougie Jardine, Jack Ratchford) & Co prior to sailing on my first trip 'Memnon' 04/55 (11 months).

ROBERT HENDERSON
21st March 2009, 16:21
I have been retired twelve years now, in the last few years I served at sea I never saw spikes or fids aboard ships, and certainly not a serving mallet. A pity that most of us regarded as part of the job seems to have gone forever.

Regards Robert

trucker
21st March 2009, 19:57
remember the blue hardback, boatswains manual.which was a sailor,s bible.i purchased one in 1967,and still have it .great reference book for a.bs.then the obligatory green river knife and spike set.[think that was the name]

Pat Kennedy
21st March 2009, 20:54
I still have my knife and spike, and the sheath I made from a piece of canvas hose almost fifty years ago. The knife is in regular use and the spike, which my brother turned for me on a lathe in the engine room of the Liverpool pilot Boat, Arnet Robinson, gets used now and again for various little jobs. The belt I made from a length of small stuff is a testament to how damned skinny I was in those days!

Bill Davies
21st March 2009, 21:21
Sometime in the late 70s I had reason to be in Wallasey and on crossing the Four Bridges was held up by a 'China Boat' negotiating the dock system.
Nostalgia kicked in and I went down that little lane by 'the Bee' to the locks hoping to catch a glimpse of a familiar face. Recognised no one and more importantly not one of the crowd had a knife and spike. Further, some had long hair! Sacrilege!
I too have my knife and spike but have never touched it in since leaving the 'Peleus' in 61.

joebuckham
21st March 2009, 21:28
Sometime in the late 70s I had reason to be in Wallasey and on crossing the Four Bridges was held up by a 'China Boat' negotiating the dock system.
Nostalgia kicked in and I went down that little lane by 'the Bee' to the locks hoping to catch a glimpse of a familiar face. Recognised no one and more importantly not one of the crowd had a knife and spike. Further, some had long hair! Sacrilege!
I too have my knife and spike but have never touched it in since leaving the 'Peleus' in 61.

hi bill
i no longer have my knife, or my spike, or my hair :)

Nick Balls
21st March 2009, 21:34
remember the blue hardback, boatswains manual.which was a sailor,s bible.i purchased one in 1967,and still have it .great reference book for a.bs.then the obligatory green river knife and spike set.[think that was the name]

The preface by a distinguished RN officer is VERY FUNNY........I do not now have a copy of this book but used to read that bit out (normally never read) to our newest recruits. It revolves around the dangers of using a broom to "sit on" ....whilst on top of the funnel and the resulting tragic accident ..Look it up folks my details might be a little rusty but it always got a laugh

Bill Davies
21st March 2009, 21:38
Hi Joe,

If it is just the hair, don't worry. It is when all the other faculties desert you then you start worrying.

Brgds

Bill

tsell
21st March 2009, 23:24
I still have my knife and spike, and the sheath I made from a piece of canvas hose almost fifty years ago. The knife is in regular use and the spike, which my brother turned for me on a lathe in the engine room of the Liverpool pilot Boat, Arnet Robinson, gets used now and again for various little jobs. The belt I made from a length of small stuff is a testament to how damned skinny I was in those days!

Hi Pat. Amazing how we hang onto things to remind us of the old sailing days.
I still have my Green River knife (in the sheath I made from a piece of pig skin swiped from the galley), spike, palm and a few needles, plus the plaitted belt with the big brass buckle!
Pushing 75, I still have a 22inch waist and a 49inch chest.

Sorry, hang on a minute..................oh, the missus just said it's the other way around!!!

Taffy R556959

Pat Kennedy
21st March 2009, 23:36
Taffy,
You made me laugh, thats my current state of affairs as well !
Had to buy a 46" belt the other day, its all gone wrong since I quit smoking before Christmas.
Regards,
Pat

Arthur Jenner
21st March 2009, 23:59
Yes, we all had a green river knife in those days and we decorated the sheath with macrame work. When I left the sea to get married 1953 I gave my knife, spike, palm and needles and all that stuff to a young Irish AB. I've regretted it ever since especially the palm and needles.

Nick Balls
22nd March 2009, 10:52
These green river knifes were still around until recently. I lost mine overboard having had it years....... luckily I made up a pretty good replacement using a machine hacksaw blade and a couple of odd bits of dunnage cut down to form the handle. Palm and needles are also now very difficult. A Chandler in Aberdeen recently tried to pass me off with some terrible rubbish. I eventually found a supply of size 12 and 14 needles of very good quality (still made in UK) and yes we still make the canvas covers on board......but only just.........We can still get bees wax and sail twine (This twine is completely different to the old stuff) Got some excellent marline in Yarmouth a couple of years ago but one thing I have not seen in a long time is a sail hook for use with the cover making

dom
22nd March 2009, 11:50
dont be palmed of with any old needles,shrimptons are the only ones to buy

Arthur Jenner
22nd March 2009, 12:21
These green river knifes were still around until recently. I lost mine overboard having had it years....... luckily I made up a pretty good replacement using a machine hacksaw blade and a couple of odd bits of dunnage cut down to form the handle. Palm and needles are also now very difficult. A Chandler in Aberdeen recently tried to pass me off with some terrible rubbish. I eventually found a supply of size 12 and 14 needles of very good quality (still made in UK) and yes we still make the canvas covers on board......but only just.........We can still get bees wax and sail twine (This twine is completely different to the old stuff) Got some excellent marline in Yarmouth a couple of years ago but one thing I have not seen in a long time is a sail hook for use with the cover making
I don't suppose you can still buy Libro Americano dungarees

jmcg
22nd March 2009, 13:08
Green River knives? . In my day they were certainly still available and if I can recall, standard issue. However, on at least two China boats I sailed on they were considered to be "tame" or naff.

Joe Bates (bosun on Hector) rated his men by the quality and branding of the knife he {they} carried - Green River men were always aft on stations or derrick topping/lowering duties whilst those with a superior brand or hone enjoyed his pleasure / displeasure for'ard .

Oh, and if you had a bent spike woe betide you.

The pouch I had was made out of that rope braiding material that was formed around the handrails and then painted up white. Can anyone remember what it was called?

All this was "finished off" with a 26 inch length of boat lacing and yes you've guessed it -2 Englefield Clips. Still got it but sadly wont fit the waistline now.

Pure Nostalgia.

BW

J

Bill Davies
22nd March 2009, 13:10
Swordmatting??

jmcg
22nd March 2009, 13:20
Thanks Bill -thats it.

BW

J

Nick Balls
22nd March 2009, 17:49
I don't suppose you can still buy Libro Americano dungarees

Don't think so Arthur...but you could go down to either the North Sea stores in Aberdeen or Yarmouth Stores in Great yarmouth both institutions of the classic kind.......I saw a nice little old gansy in N.S. Stores last year and
as for the Green River Knifes you need to go down to Reg Pownell's at his fishing shop ( a famous little haunt) again in GY

Nick Balls
22nd March 2009, 17:59
Yes but has anybody yet looked up the forward in the front of the Boatswains Manual, The funny bit by the learned/Distinguished RN officer. I have hundreds of books down here in Pud city but I don't have this one . It would be great to have it quoted.... Fatal accident on a funnel with a broom ....Its a few years since I last read it . It needs to be read out aloud but boy it always brought the house down ...It wasn't you that wrote it was it Arthur?

brentfordian
22nd March 2009, 22:11
Another Arthur classic - but in answer to the question "Can anyone splice a wire rope .................?"
When I was a deck apprentice I was 98% of the time on deck as part of the crew, and after four years became quite handy with the rope and wire splicing under the tutelage of skilled old bosuns and ABs. After that I never saw another splice for the next fifteen years until I returned to sea on a dredger. One day when a wire parted the cry went out "Can anyone splice a wire rope .... ?" The following silence emboldened me to say "I'll give it a go" and I set to with a will - and a spike - before the admiring looks of the assembled company. All went well for a while, and many were the approving comments from the onlookers, until at some point I clearly stuck one part into the wrong hole, and the developing splice turned into something horrible to look at. Despite all my efforts to retrieve the situation, the splice remained undone, and so was I........................
When I hear that call again I shall keep my spike firmly in my pocket and think only of England, home and beauty.
Here's to the next Arthur instalment.

rickzek
23rd March 2009, 10:09
Still wire splicing and socketing with white metal or the now prefered resin.
Went to Egypt May last year too teach Tidewater marine supply boat crews
how socket tow ropes and inspect lifting gear. What do seamen learn these
days to get an AB certiticate, it is not seamanship thats forsure.
Rick.

slick
23rd March 2009, 17:38
All,
Green River, Normark was my preferred tool, the test was to place an old penny on a hatch board and stab it something a Green River just would not do.
Yours aye,
Slick

Trader
23rd March 2009, 18:56
Yes but has anybody yet looked up the forward in the front of the Boatswains Manual, The funny bit by the learned/Distinguished RN officer. I have hundreds of books down here in Pud city but I don't have this one . It would be great to have it quoted.... Fatal accident on a funnel with a broom ....Its a few years since I last read it . It needs to be read out aloud but boy it always brought the house down ...It wasn't you that wrote it was it Arthur?

Nick, I have just dug my old Boatswains Manual out and cannot find any forward by a distinguished RN. officer. I bought my copy in 1952 and it is a reprint of of the original 1944 edition. It is by William A. McCloud and revised by Captain H.F. Chase, B.Sc., Extra Master.

Just had a look through it, it brought back a few memories.
Alec.

Bill Davies
23rd March 2009, 19:23
'Green River' does not really mean much to me and I am wndering what was so special. Did they keep their edge??. I used to buy my knives in Kowloon or on the coast coast (Shanghai/Hsinkiang). Invariably, they had a brown mottled plastic handle. Did the job!

Bill Davies
23rd March 2009, 19:24
dont be palmed of with any old needles,shrimptons are the only ones to buy

Oh, very good Dom. I havejust spotted that one.

jmcg
23rd March 2009, 19:51
#87

Dont fret Bill - nothing special in a Green River. Edge never lasted beyond the first wield. Seems that they are the business for filleting fish though

JB on Hector would remark upon sight of an AB drawing a Green River "Do you want a effing match" meaning a light of course.

The Chinese did have a reasonably good selection as you say but they were more like minature sythes or sabres. Nevertheless they took a good honing.

Mine was/is a Sandvic (Swedish I think). Still use it when preparing a rabbit for the pot.

Bw

J

ROBERT HENDERSON
23rd March 2009, 19:54
'Green River' does not really mean much to me and I am wndering what was so special. Did they keep their edge??. I used to buy my knives in Kowloon or on the coast coast (Shanghai/Hsinkiang). Invariably, they had a brown mottled plastic handle. Did the job!

Bill, you really must treat yourself to a dictionary. (==D) (==D) (==D)

Regards Robert

Bill Davies
23rd March 2009, 20:04
Robert,
The truth is I never re read and check through before sending.
There are occasions when with several other members I will make a deliberate mistake and wait and see how long a certain sparkie member comments on it but that is just good fun. Lost a tenner a few days back.
I'll do my best to improve Robert.
Brgds

Bill

Pat Kennedy
23rd March 2009, 20:47
Robert,
The truth is I never re read and check through before sending.
There are occasions when with several other members I will make a deliberate mistake and wait and see how long a certain sparkie member comments on it but that is just good fun. Lost a tenner a few days back.
I'll do my best to improve Robert.
Brgds

Bill.

Bill,
I know full well that at the educational establishment which you attended, you were instructed to always check your work before submitting it.
The ghosts of several Christian Brothers will be rather displeased with your comment above
Pat

Nick Balls
23rd March 2009, 20:47
Nick, I have just dug my old Boatswains Manual out and cannot find any forward by a distinguished RN. officer. I bought my copy in 1952 and it is a reprint of of the original 1944 edition. It is by William A. McCloud and revised by Captain H.F. Chase, B.Sc., Extra Master.

Just had a look through it, it brought back a few memories.
Alec.

Thanks Trader ! Ive got an idea that the edition I am talking about is a bit later than 1952....
I was surprised that it was still in print up until at least 5 years ago......

I will have another look and see if I can find a copy

Bill Davies
24th March 2009, 19:14
Much has been written about the evolution of the Bullivant being due to the uncertainty of the Liverpool splice (unwinding).
Are there any members who have actually witnessed this phenomena.
I haven't!

jmcg
24th March 2009, 20:08
This is an interesting one Bill.

Have never actually witnessed the Liverpool splice unwinding to the extreme, I have (and I'm sure you likewise) seen very large "jaws" in the eye in close proximity to the first tuck. This would be considered as a forerunner of potential disaster. I'm sure PK would be more enlightened than I in respect of the application on the docks and in particular hoist wires on the cranes.

In the refineries I worked both UK and abroad all splicing was of the "locking" type. Few could master it. British Ropes (sadly no more) were instrumental in producing a non rotating type of wire that effectively eliminated rotation. Then swivelling "monkeys" (some called them babies) were fitted to hoist wire ends just above the hook. These took the "spin" out of the wire and also acted as a weight for non loaded wire.

One chap (ex China) always accompanied me on refinery shutdowns. Apart from being a great colleague and worker he was a master at the art of splicing wire of all diametres. His philosophy was "if you are fighting a wire you cannot be doing a splice correctly". I have never seen him wrestle with a wire yet.

Unfortunately, arthritis and carpal tunnel syndrome has effectively brought his exceptional skills to their end.

BW

J

trucker
24th March 2009, 20:34
once again ,we are on about mastering splices.all a locking splice is ,you cross two wires at the beginning of the splice[depending on which splice].creating the lock.for i.e you cross 1-6 on an admiralty splice,etc.all a liverpool splice is ,what most a.bs called a3-2-1 as thats how you spliced it ,no lock.waiting for the rebuttle.

E.Martin
24th March 2009, 20:41
Have read all the posts on wire splicing, can i splice ? yes, i have spliced thousands of wire ropes, thousands of mooring ropes twisted and multi strand, we spliced lots of 52 mm wire ropes on rig supply boats, also have fitted sockets on various size wire ropes they are a doddle compared with splicing, the largest socket i ever helped to fit was on a 70mm wire rope, handling that was a bit of a struggle.
Have worked a Talurite press, press a thimble into a 52mm wire rope 10 to 15 minutes, the same job by hand lots of man hours.
Have worked on most types of ships splicing ropes and wires, when we had a fleet of trawlers we did lots of splicing on them mainly on warps the wires that towed the trawl.
Have worked on wires lots of places around the UK and on the continent, one job was making up a set of rig moorings in Cameroon, who taught me how to splice a AB on a British Coaster, I was at sea 11 years then worked as a ship rigger for 36 years, hard work but enjoyed it, only thing i want to splice now is the Mainbrace, I still keep a 18 inch marline spike just inside my front door.

Bill Davies
24th March 2009, 21:03
once again ,we are on about mastering splices.all a locking splice is ,you cross two wires at the beginning of the splice[depending on which splice].creating the lock.for i.e you cross 1-6 on an admiralty splice,etc.all a liverpool splice is ,what most a.bs called a3-2-1 as thats how you spliced it ,no lock.waiting for the rebuttle.

Trucker,
Your description of the locking splice ' cross 1 - 6 ' please carry on.

trucker
24th March 2009, 21:10
aye it doesn,t take much.

jmcg
24th March 2009, 21:24
#97

Impressive pedigree. Well done. We called the "sockets" ferrules. Same thing. I agree much quicker and easier. If we required any "specials" we would telex Shell UK who would have them made up at Stanlow and flown out to wherever we were.

BW

J

Pat Kennedy
24th March 2009, 22:18
This is an interesting one Bill.

Have never actually witnessed the Liverpool splice unwinding to the extreme, I have (and I'm sure you likewise) seen very large "jaws" in the eye in close proximity to the first tuck. This would be considered as a forerunner of potential disaster. I'm sure PK would be more enlightened than I in respect of the application on the docks and in particular hoist wires on the cranes.

In the refineries I worked both UK and abroad all splicing was of the "locking" type. Few could master it. British Ropes (sadly no more) were instrumental in producing a non rotating type of wire that effectively eliminated rotation. Then swivelling "monkeys" (some called them babies) were fitted to hoist wire ends just above the hook. These took the "spin" out of the wire and also acted as a weight for non loaded wire.

One chap (ex China) always accompanied me on refinery shutdowns. Apart from being a great colleague and worker he was a master at the art of splicing wire of all diametres. His philosophy was "if you are fighting a wire you cannot be doing a splice correctly". I have never seen him wrestle with a wire yet.

Unfortunately, arthritis and carpal tunnel syndrome has effectively brought his exceptional skills to their end.

BW

J

John,
I never saw a crane hoist rope carry away, ever, despite the pounding they took on quayside cranes. All Stothert and Pitt cranes had the baby bolted on just above the hook and this covered and protected the splice/ ferrule, as well as acting as a swivel and taking the spin out of the wire.
Cranes in Lairds were of all shapes and sizes and all the wire ropes were maintained by Lairds own riggers, none of whom incidentally were ex seamen, all were time-served tradesmen who could splice wire in their sleep. Talurit ferrules were always used in making wire slings and legs, but they used to often splice new crane hoists onto the winch drums.
The Boss rigger was Davy Blease who moved on to Shell at Stanlow when Lairds closed.
Regards,
Pat

jmcg
24th March 2009, 22:29
Thought I was the "Boss" at Shell!!!!

BW

J

Pat Kennedy
24th March 2009, 22:34
Thought I was the "Boss" at Shell!!!!

BW

J

I never he said he went to Shell as the boss!
You would start a fight in an m/t house!!
Pat(Jester)

jmcg
24th March 2009, 22:45
Gor - thanks for that -you had me worried for a moment. Had visions of Joe Shell coming after me for return of extra wages.

There was a guy known as the "Hollywood Rigger" at Shell. He claimed he was only 45 when he started. In fact he was 57 . Retired at aged 60 (Shell), real time 72. With overtime he was nearly 100. They pursued him for recovery.

BW

J

Pat Kennedy
24th March 2009, 22:54
Gor - thanks for that -you had me worried for a moment. Had visions of Joe Shell coming after me for return of extra wages.

There was a guy known as the "Hollywood Rigger" at Shell. He claimed he was only 45 when he started. In fact he was 57 . Retired at aged 60 (Shell), in fact he was 72. They pursued him for recovery.

BW

J


They should have awarded him a medal for devotion to duty.
My father did something similar, he apparently kidded my mother he was twenty years younger than he really was, and she only found out when his pension book arrived!
He still had black hair when he was 75, his mates called him the eternal youth.
Sadly, I have not inherited this gene from him.
Regards,
Pat
PS, there was a "Hollywood Docker" working on the South End docks in Liverpool, to look at him you would think he was a resting actor, never did a day's work in his life.

jmcg
25th March 2009, 08:42
My understanding is that nos 3 & 4 strands created the lock in a Bullivant splice. There my be variants. Will consult my guru next week.

BW

J

Bill Davies
25th March 2009, 09:08
No need to consult your guru John. That was the point of my post! I am still eagerly awaiting a reply.

dom
25th March 2009, 09:48
My understanding is that nos 3 & 4 strands created the lock in a Bullivant splice. There my be variants. Will consult my guru next week.

BW

J

locking splice,1 down through 2to the left, 2 strand down through 1,6 strand down through 2 to the right 5 strand down through1 to the right cross 3 and 4 carry on over one under two

Locking Splice
25th March 2009, 10:07
Locking 3 and 4 is the Aussie locking splice, also known as the Crane Splice.

Best Regards

Yuge

Bill Davies
25th March 2009, 10:51
aye it doesn,t take much.

Hardly the answer to the question.

Bill Davies
25th March 2009, 12:22
stop playing a scolded school child.(EEK)

Trucker,

Disappointed in your response. I was hoping those seamen amongst us, who had experience in this art could have had constructive dialogue on this interesting topic.

Bill

K urgess
25th March 2009, 12:59
In case you're wondering the posts have been deleted by me as unnecessary, off topic comments.
And I will expect no comments about it.

trucker
25th March 2009, 18:11
post 96 was supposed to be tongue in cheek as to 1by6. i have been out all day ,but came back and just noticed some posts deleted. naval splice -1 strand on right,tuck through nearest left strand.2,3,4,5 in the same manner.then tuck no6 strand, through 2 strands also towards left.then over ,under as in a rope splice.also a bullivent [left handed ]is locked by crossing strands 2-6[.right handed] splice, lock is made by crossing 3-4.

Bill Davies
25th March 2009, 18:23
Thanks your response Trucker.
This is interesting as we have two camps who are differentiating two variants of locking slices. The locking splice I am familiar with is the Bullivant where 3 and 4 form the lock. Further, there are two camps who differ in whether 3 is tucked first and locked by 4 or vice versa.
Any thoughts??

jmcg
25th March 2009, 18:35
Always considered no 3 first to be locked by 4. Naval splice? Not heard of that one. Admiralty splice - yes.

Have applied a touch of Feng Shui to this response.

BW

J

trucker
25th March 2009, 18:41
Always considered no 3 first to be locked by 4. Naval splice? Not heard of that one. Admiralty splice - yes.

Have applied a touch of Feng Shui to this response.

BW

J

as far as i know admiralty and naval are the same.dont quote me though.

trucker
25th March 2009, 18:51
Thanks your response Trucker.
This is interesting as we have two camps who are differentiating two variants of locking slices. The locking splice I am familiar with is the Bullivant where 3 and 4 form the lock. Further, there are two camps who differ in whether 3 is tucked first and locked by 4 or vice versa.
Any thoughts??

bit rusty on that although i stated 3-4 it could be no4 first then 3.although they cross at 3.i used to do it left handed and crossed 2-6.

Bill Davies
25th March 2009, 18:51
Always considered no 3 first to be locked by 4. Naval splice? Not heard of that one. Admiralty splice - yes.

Have applied a touch of Feng Shui to this response.

BW

J

John,

Is that Feng Shui or Blue Funnel diplomacy??

Bill

trucker
25th March 2009, 22:01
or it could be,blue feng and shui funnel,diplomacy.b.f. has a lot to answer for.

Pat Kennedy
25th March 2009, 22:05
Well, here's another way to do a locking splice;
Strand 1 goes under two strands, against the lay.
Strand 2 goes under three strands against the lay.
Tuck in the core with strand 2.
Strand 3 goes under two and under the core, with the lay.
Strand 4 goes under one with the lay.
These first four strands all go in the same hole.
Strand 5 goes over the wire and in one strand above the first four, with the lay.
Strand 6 goes in where strand 1 exits and comes out where strand 5 goes in.
The core can be cut off after one tuck or tucked in with strand 2
After three tucks split each strand into 3 parts and cut off one third, after four tucks split in two and cut off half, that way you get a nice neat reducing splice.
I had to sit down with pencil and paper and six long pieces of cord to try and remember how this was done, but I think I've got it right
Regards,
Pat

Bill Davies
25th March 2009, 22:28
What type of locking splice is that Pat?

Locking Splice
25th March 2009, 22:33
Hi Pat,

Never wanted to get involved in this thread, much as I loved all aspects of Marline Spike Seamanship, however, your locking splice sounds very good and I are sure there are plenty more out there that can do the splice justice.
The poor old Liverpool Splice (and it was a good Splice) has taken a bit of a knock, however this was the splice the Examiner wanted to see when I took my EDH back in the late 60's. The Bulivant came into the exam in the 70's and was well explained in the the EDH Manual of that era (forget the books proper title). It was 6 and 2 that were crossed for that splice.
Although I knew about the Aussie Lock (3 and 4) 4 locked it. It was a South African Storekeeper George Crowley that I sailed with in Cunard that showed me how to perfect it properly and close up the jaw more tightly (always a problem with this Splice especially when turning in a thimble).It was the only splice accepted by Dockers on the Aussie coast back then. What George did not know about splicing was not worth knowing as he had done his time in the Sailing Ship Lawhill during WW2.

Best Regards

Yuge

Pat Kennedy
25th March 2009, 22:45
What type of locking splice is that Pat?

Bill,
I dont know if it has a name, it was the type of locking splice used by Lairds riggers and I used to spend a lot of time in the rigging loft in the yard because a good friend of mine, Ray Scully, was a rigger there. Ray showed me this way of splicing and I remember practicing it for hours because it seemed counter intuitive. Needless to say, all those guys were far better at splicing than I was, they were masters of the art, but I did manage to make a passable leg with a spliced in Liverpool cargo hook for use on my crane.
Best Regards,
Pat

trucker
25th March 2009, 22:52
Hi Pat,

Never wanted to get involved in this thread, much as I loved all aspects of Marline Spike Seamanship, however, your locking splice sounds very good and I are sure there are plenty more out there that can do the splice justice.
The poor old Liverpool Splice (and it was a good Splice) has taken a bit of a knock, however this was the splice the Examiner wanted to see when I took my EDH back in the late 60's. The Bulivant came into the exam in the 70's and was well explained in the the EDH Manual of that era (forget the books proper title). It was 6 and 2 that were crossed for that splice.
Although I knew about the Aussie Lock (3 and 4) 4 locked it. It was a South African Storekeeper George Crowley that I sailed with in Cunard that showed me how to perfect it properly and close up the jaw more tightly (always a problem with this Splice especially when turning in a thimble).It was the only splice accepted by Dockers on the Aussie coast back then. What George did not know about splicing was not worth knowing as he had done his time in the Sailing Ship Lawhill during WW2.

Best Regards

Yuge no2 in first [left handed]no6 next [right handed ]locked.

Pat Kennedy
25th March 2009, 22:52
Hi Pat,

Never wanted to get involved in this thread, much as I loved all aspects of Marline Spike Seamanship, however, your locking splice sounds very good and I are sure there are plenty more out there that can do the splice justice.
The poor old Liverpool Splice (and it was a good Splice) has taken a bit of a knock, however this was the splice the Examiner wanted to see when I took my EDH back in the late 60's. The Bulivant came into the exam in the 70's and was well explained in the the EDH Manual of that era (forget the books proper title). It was 6 and 2 that were crossed for that splice.
Although I knew about the Aussie Lock (3 and 4) 4 locked it. It was a South African Storekeeper George Crowley that I sailed with in Cunard that showed me how to perfect it properly and close up the jaw more tightly (always a problem with this Splice especially when turning in a thimble).It was the only splice accepted by Dockers on the Aussie coast back then. What George did not know about splicing was not worth knowing as he had done his time in the Sailing Ship Lawhill during WW2.

Best Regards

Yuge

Thats true, the Liverpool splice was the one for the EDH exam, I took mine in March 1961, exactly 48 years ago this week.
I do miss working with ships and cranes etc, but I've been a plumber/gas engineer since 1982, far longer than I was a sailor.
Best Regards,
Pat

Bill Davies
25th March 2009, 23:03
Bill,
I dont know if it has a name, it was the type of locking splice used by Lairds riggers and I used to spend a lot of time in the rigging loft in the yard because a good friend of mine, Ray Scully, was a rigger there. Ray showed me this way of splicing and I remember practicing it for hours because it seemed counter intuitive. Needless to say, all those guys were far better at splicing than I was, they were masters of the art, but I did manage to make a passable leg with a spliced in Liverpool cargo hook for use on my crane.
Best Regards,
Pat

Pat,

It is quite possible that what you have described is an adaption of the Admiralty Locking Splice.
The Locking Splice I was familiar with was the Bullivant with the 3rd and 4th strands crossing and thus locking. I am sure your colleagues at Lairds were masters at this art as we all know splicing can only be perfected when one is doing it on a daily basis.

Brgds

Bill

jmcg
25th March 2009, 23:31
As mentioned this is an interesting one - so much so that I have now recovered my copy of Browns Knots and Splices by Capt. Jutsum . Price 2 shillings net. 4th edition 1942.

Liverpool or Spiral Style (fig 141) will scan & copy from office tomorrow.

"Hawsers, or any ropes not hanging free and liable to spin, may be spliced in this style, in which the strands, instead of being interlocked together, are merely tucked round and round one particular strand in the rope. Each loose strand is of course tucked round a different strand in the rope. This is sometimes called the "Liverpool style (see fig 141)."

Will post Fig 141 to morrow.

Bosun on HECTOR gave to me the above mentioned book,


BW

J

trucker
25th March 2009, 23:44
this is called running up the wire.

dom
26th March 2009, 03:29
is'nt that the old 3-2-and 1

TonyAllen
26th March 2009, 13:50
GENTS I must thank you all for this thread, just passed an hour away reading your comments due to the rain keeping me out of my garden this is what SN is all about both at sea and ashore.Noted the comment about libro jeans are you shore it was spelt that way ,the reason I ask is becouse at the top of the road where we lived in Kensington Liverpool was the LYBRO jeans factory where all my sisters worked making jeans, as young lads we would not wear them as the were to heavy , now I know why sadly its long gone probly abroard somewhere,another memory brought to life thru SN. TONY aLLEN

E.Martin
26th March 2009, 14:57
#97

Impressive pedigree. Well done. We called the "sockets" ferrules. Same thing. I agree much quicker and easier. If we required any "specials" we would telex Shell UK who would have them made up at Stanlow and flown out to wherever we were.

BW

J
Ferrules as i know are what is used when useing a talurit press, put the right size ferrule into the right size swages push the wire through the swages then double the end back and pull in what size eye you want then press, some one said that a ferrule failed no way would a ferrule fail if it had been done properly, have tested wires to destruction that had been pressed and the wire has always parted.
Lots of posts about locking splices bullivants etc while at sea used the 3-2-1-1-1-1 never ever put a so called locking tuck, working as a rigger ashore we always started 2-3-2-1-1-1 no so called locking tuck the only splice to use that is guaranteed not to pull is you splice over and under like you would a rope, the most awkward wire i ever spliced was a left hand lay wire.
Have any of you old salts ever used a Super Loop?

trucker
26th March 2009, 15:27
never used a super loop,never worked shore side.i presume it is a mechanical splicer.but would like to know more.regards.

jmcg
26th March 2009, 18:21
#131

Ferrules, swauges talurit press - all correct. We tested (to destruction) a random sample of every wire made. Also tested a sample of every coil of wire immediatly after opening and before any slings/etc were made from it.

** We also had "rigging" ferrules - these were of hardened steel construction (as opposed to the aluminium make)and were tapered at the end. Special swauges were required and extra precauctions needed as the steel types had been known to shatter if the press pressure was applied for too long. (Foot pedal). The key moment to release was when the tail was sufficiently forced out of the ferrrule. Keen eyes required to spot the first sign of the lubricant being forced out of the tail piece.

We were required to keep the samples marked up, identified with coil no., batch no., maker, date of manufacture etc and securely locked away. All wires were colour coded, checked before use, inspected each 1/4 and returned to main loft before the expiry of a 12 month period. Here they would undergo a more vigourous inspection - about 85% were condemned . The cycle started again. - literally thousands of them. The job kept three men going in the main loft. I often wondered where that wonderful piece of kit (press) went to. Great for making garage wires and all home destined "foreigners". Still have about 10 wires of various lengths in the shed. Use them every year for logging and other purposes. All hand made (machine) by me!!

A little monkey; can anyone remember the SWL of a 3/8 wire lashing? You might need a little Feng Shui on that one. It should extend the length of this fascinating thread.

** Also stainless steel ferrules for stainless wire work. Boat lovers dream.

BW

J

jmcg
26th March 2009, 19:26
As per yesterdays posting. Has anyone come across the Lanyard Thimble?


BW

J

jmcg
26th March 2009, 19:59
#130

Lybro jeans? Yes I do recall a specialist outfitter up Scottie Road that serviced many a seaman in the jeans department. The quality of fabric on the jeans was unsurpassed. I cannot recall whether they were called Lybro or not, nor can I remember the name of the outfitter.

Much more servicible than the Wrangler and Lee Cooper equivalents. Flushed AB's always presented with jeans from that supplier- big leather nameplate on the rear.

BW

J

Pat Kennedy
26th March 2009, 20:11
I remember those jeans as well, but sadly the name escapes me. They were heavy duty denim and would last for years. Unfortunately, they did not fade satisfactorily, no matter how much you scrubbed them with a deck scrubber, and faded jeans were of course, de rigeur in those days for us cool young sailors.
They were sold in Scotland Rd not far from that factory that makes snooker tables etc , Clares.

Pat

Pat Kennedy
26th March 2009, 20:16
The name of those jeans has just come to me, two minutes after I posted the previous post.
They were of course.... FLEMINGS.
Pat

jmcg
26th March 2009, 20:39
Yes Pat, thank you very much. Tended to a "cool fit" too.

BW

J

E.Martin
26th March 2009, 21:00
never used a super loop,never worked shore side.i presume it is a mechanical splicer.but would like to know more.regards. You have your wire what ever size and want a quick eye, depending what size eye you intend to make unlay three strands leaving three strands with the heart put a overhand knot where the crown of the eye will be and relay the wire, that will leave you with a eye and a length of wire which you secure to the main wire, a bulldog grip if you have one.
I used this once and that was in a Nuclear Power Station, the winch which fed the core had been overhauled, we had taken the old wire 40mm off and would be running the new wire on, before we could put the new wire on the winch had to be tested, we ran about half a layer along the winch then we had a choice splice a eye which would take time or use a Super Loop about 15 minutes, we opted for the Loop and then i think it was 35ton was lifted 20ft for 20 minutes, myself and mate stood there with our fingers crossed but every thing was fine.

trucker
26th March 2009, 21:18
You have your wire what ever size and want a quick eye, depending what size eye you intend to make unlay three strands leaving three strands with the heart put a overhand knot where the crown of the eye will be and relay the wire, that will leave you with a eye and a length of wire which you secure to the main wire, a bulldog grip if you have one.
I used this once and that was in a Nuclear Power Station, the winch which fed the core had been overhauled, we had taken the old wire 40mm off and would be running the new wire on, before we could put the new wire on the winch had to be tested, we ran about half a layer along the winch then we had a choice splice a eye which would take time or use a Super Loop about 15 minutes, we opted for the Loop and then i think it was 35ton was lifted 20ft for 20 minutes, myself and mate stood there with our fingers crossed but every thing was fine.

thanks for that info.i managed to print it.after a couple of goes and afew pages.(Thumb)

Thats another Story
27th March 2009, 00:39
The name of those jeans has just come to me, two minutes after I posted the previous post.
They were of course.... FLEMINGS.
PatPAT YOU COULD GET JEANS MADE TO MESURE THE JACKETS HAD ELASTIC IN THE SHOULDERS FOR COMFORT EVEN FRANKY KANG COULD NOT BELEVE IT WHEN HE SAW IT??

jmcg
27th March 2009, 09:25
Yes, the Jackets were very good too, but what was the name of the outfitters- was it also called Flemmings?

BW

J

Bill Davies
28th March 2009, 08:12
Gentlemen,

This is not a 'catwalk' for fashionable middleaged 'China Boat' ABs.
The thread is about 'Wire Splicing'. Let's get back to it.

Brgds

Bill

jmcg
28th March 2009, 10:07
Ooops!

Sorry Bill - a logging required?

BW

J

Bill Davies
28th March 2009, 10:17
A day's pay John, and two days for Pat (because he is older and should know better!).

Pat Kennedy
28th March 2009, 12:52
A day's pay John, and two days for Pat (because he is older and should know better!).

Sorry Bill, you know how one thing leads to another, anyway Ive just been chastised for leaving my blowlamp in the kitchen, so I'm not having a good day.
Cheers,
Pat

joebuckham
28th March 2009, 13:48
Exactly, and that is my point. All members of my vintage I am sure are proficient in this art however, I cannot guarantee those entering the profession in recent years are capable of splicing wire rope to an acceptable level. We just do not have the trainers in our colleges to instruct on basics.

hi bill
although i could splice wires, and harrassed the bosun so i could be in on any splicing job that arose, there never seemed to be a lot of wire splicing to do that is apart from small items and the occasional mooring wire that was'nt slacked away fast enough.
the boatswains manual from 1949 seems to echo this, thumbnail attached

jmcg
28th March 2009, 17:23
Joe

I can identify with the contents of the BM -to a degree. Much would depend on a number of factors including type of trade, (Tramping or Liner) and ready availabilty of replacement wires, runners, topping wires,guys, preventers etc.

I'm sure any AB who sailed the Binsnes, Bakness (Jebsens) would readily agree that the "cranes" (a varient of Thompson Derricks) complete with their own grabs and other rigging required constant splicing.

I was only one of 3 AB's including Bosun on Binsnes, when, in Shanghai, discharging pig iron we used up all existing and spare replacements. Capt Ronnie Safe (RIP) even helped out when he could and lent a hand on the vice and other equipment.

Sadly the GP manning arrangment + a couple of "sailors" from the International Pool did not help matters.

The wires were never subjected to any official testing regime - it was generally accepted that another cargo of pig iron would kill them off in any event.

Thanks for posting the excerpt from BM.

BW

J

K urgess
28th March 2009, 18:44
Attached are the relevant pages from Nicholls's 1966 edition.
Not a high quality set of photographs I'm afraid. (Sad)

E.Martin
28th March 2009, 19:41
Yeah Arthur me uncle said the same thing, we only use manila for hoisting and stay away from the man made rope, for the obivious reasons.
We used to socket and babitt the ropes on elevators now we have a wedge system so all those old babitting skills are now longer needed.
Its quicker and easier, but it took a lot of skill the old way to get them ropes right.
I get sounding older every day lol(Thumb)

all the best
HughesyI have put sockets on various size wires useing babitt and Wire Lock the latter making the job so simple 90 minutes after pouring the socket is ready for use, should imagine the wedge system the socket is instantly ready for use but i have not seen it used, remember years ago American built ships all the stays fittings were useing a wedge system,would your wedge system be the same?, i think the bottle screw fitting was on a thread.

jmcg
28th March 2009, 20:52
Marconi

Bow to tail in fig 68. How often I've seen it alternating or at worst bow to running end. All shoreside I'm afraid,

Thanks for posting.

BW

J

Pat Kennedy
28th March 2009, 21:07
John re your question earlier

A little monkey; can anyone remember the SWL of a 3/8 wire lashing? You might need a little Feng Shui on that one. It should extend the length of this fascinating thread.

I saw a catalogue recently in which the SWL of 3/8th " galvanised lashing
wire was stated as 2880 lbs.

regards,
Pat

jmcg
28th March 2009, 21:43
John re your question earlier

A little monkey; can anyone remember the SWL of a 3/8 wire lashing? You might need a little Feng Shui on that one. It should extend the length of this fascinating thread.

I saw a catalogue recently in which the SWL of 3/8th " galvanised lashing
wire was stated as 2880 lbs.

regards,
Pat


Dangerous and unbelievable!

J

Pat Kennedy
28th March 2009, 21:55
John,
Here it is, check it out.

http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Material_Lifts_Handling/Wire_Rope/51671.htm,

Pat

jmcg
28th March 2009, 22:06
Thank you Pat - but its use is specificaly not for lashing purposes.

The key is "Lashing" . As such a lashing has no SWL.

I can recall a heat exchanger (14+ tons) being held only by a 1/4 inch version at a refinery in Riyadh. How it didnt defy gravity and wreck a control room I do not know. These were Saudi Riggers.

BW

J

Bill Davies
28th March 2009, 22:12
hi bill
although i could splice wires, and harrassed the bosun so i could be in on any splicing job that arose, there never seemed to be a lot of wire splicing to do that is apart from small items and the occasional mooring wire that was'nt slacked away fast enough.
the boatswains manual from 1949 seems to echo this, thumbnail attached

Evening Joe,
I would have to agree with you.What little we did was, in the main restricted to parted springs etc. Although I did my pre sea in Aberdovey BF gave intensive training in the Marine Stores and Sail Loft prior to going to sea and, if you did not 'shape up' you were destined for the pool. I was also fortunate in sailing with that companies Senior Bosun who was legendary within the company in the art of wire splicing.
But Joe, like most things, you only as good as the practice you get.

Brgds

Bill

Pat Kennedy
28th March 2009, 22:14
Someone who worked in Saudi as a crane driver told me that the term 'Saudi riggers', is an oxymoron.
In fact he said that Saudis 'dont do work', they send their money out to work for them.
Regards,
Pat

jmcg
28th March 2009, 22:30
Partly correct.

The "system" in Saudi is that the indiginous Saudi has to have the "qualification" on paper to avail himself of the benefits or being an Aramco employee. The benefits are not inconsiderate.

Much if not all the work done in Saudi is carried out by expats and TCNs. These latter guys have little or no formal training , although some are very good at their job - particularly the Philipinos, followed by the Indians.

The Saudi will be the one in the middle, below him will be an expat and above him another expat and so on.

I was in "training" in Samarec before the corruption there led to S. Aramco absorbing the Riyadh complex to the holistic Aramco empire. Crane incidents (fatalities) were common but rarely amongst the Philipino or Indian drivers - always Saudis. Same with the riggers, consequenly they shipped in TCNs.

Shell were in JV with Aramco as indeed were other oil companies. Shut downs were always managed by expats with internmediate posts occupied by the Saudis.

Hope this helps.

Bw

J

E.Martin
29th March 2009, 16:26
Any trawlerman can knock in a splice.No doubt some trawler men can splice i have seen some right lashups when fishermen have attemped splicing a warp, have seen some good efforts but any splicing done by the crew were cut out and redone by the shore riggers.

Bill Davies
29th March 2009, 16:28
No doubt some trawler men can splice i have seen some right lashups when fishermen have attemped splicing a warp, have seen some good efforts but any splicing done by the crew were cut out and redone by the shore riggers.

And rightly so, because they are doing it every day!

E.Martin
29th March 2009, 16:59
And rightly so, because they are doing it every day!Regarding splicing after a while you could run up a splice blindfolded but accidents can happen, i was in the work shop doing a multi strand crane wire, i was attempting to pick up 4 strands the spike slipped and made a hole in my wrist, this particular rigger kept running on to me about how i managed to stick the spike into my wrist, a few weeks later this particular rigger and myself were on a trawler he was splicing the link end on the port warp i was doing the same on the starboard warp, i heard a yell the other rigger was holding his nose which he had broken, after running a strand up the splice on pulling the spike from the splice it came in a hurry and belted him on his nose, he never mentioned my little incident again.

Bill Davies
29th March 2009, 18:19
I too have suffered many minor injuries whilst splicing wire none, I may add as serious as those you have described. I think it would be fair to say complacency can be the cause.

Kirkrsmith
10th April 2009, 22:46
Does anyone have a picture of a 3 - 4 Locking splice to get it started??? or other wise know as a Crane or Aussie splice??

Cheers
Kirk

E.Martin
16th April 2009, 19:03
I too have suffered many minor injuries whilst splicing wire none, I may add as serious as those you have described. I think it would be fair to say complacency can be the cause.

Yes Bill i will agree that complacency is the right word, having said that a i always remember a saying on board and useing a knife, "Always cut towards your mate" that stood me in good stead untill i retired and still do.

Locking Splice
17th April 2009, 09:32
Hi Kirk,
There was a practical seamanship book around in the early or mid 70's, the author was a Scandinavien Seaman, I think his name was Svensonn or something like that (apoligies for spelling), It was a handy reference book on canvas and wire work and there was a diagram of the Aussie lock/ Crane Splice in there. Can't remember the name now through the mists of time, Marline spike sailor or seamanship (might be wrong) however perhaps one of the lads on here may know of it)

Best Regards
Yuge

joebuckham
17th April 2009, 10:25
Yes Bill i will agree that complacency is the right word, having said that a i always remember a saying on board and useing a knife, "Always cut towards your mate" that stood me in good stead untill i retired and still do.

just to quote an old bosun "never cut towards your thumb, always cut towards your chum"(Jester)