Book of interest

charles henry
12th February 2009, 14:35
I simply must recomend a book called Thunderstruck. Alternates between Marconi's research and Dr Crippen's life leading to the murder.
The first crime arrest made using wireless.

You might save considerable money by googling booksellers. I got mine
from "better world books" they only charge $3.76 mail to anywhere. Enjoy.

This is a gripping WELL RESEARCHED story showing the reactions and pettiness of the leading scientists of the day, Maxwell, Flemming, Lodge etc. It also gives a surprisingly detailed insight of life in England in those days and Marconi as a person.

An absolute must read for anyone who has listened to the bedlam on five ton in the English channel.
Enjoy de chas (Pint)

Mimcoman
13th February 2009, 06:22
Thanks for info, Chas. It sounds good - will get on to this right away

bert thompson
13th February 2009, 09:06
Sounds very interesting to this ex R/O. Thank you
Best wishes
Bert.

charles henry
13th February 2009, 13:53
I simply must recomend a book called Thunderstruck. Alternates between Marconi's research and Dr Crippen's life leading to the murder.
The first crime arrest made using wireless.

Forgot to mention, it also makes one wonder why Crippen took so long before he committed the murder
de chas

R651400
14th February 2009, 11:47
Maxwell, Flemming, Lodge etc. It also gives a surprisingly detailed insight of life in England in those days and Marconi as a person.Chas wadr Fleming, Lodge and later de Forest were "scientists" in a similar vein to Marconi, plagiarising their knowledge from others.
Outside Newton and Einstein, James Clerk Maxwell, Scottish theoretical physicist and mathematician was sans pareil and still awaits recognition that his theories led to the eventual discovery of radio.

charles henry
14th February 2009, 13:49
[QUOTE=R651400;292162]Chas wadr Fleming, Lodge and later de Forest were "scientists" in a similar vein to Marconi, plagiarising their knowledge from others.

According to the book these fellows were called "Maxwellionists" because they were proponents of Maxwell's theories.

They looked on people like Marconi as "mere practitioners" who simply used the information discovered by the "scientists". Which of course is true insomuch as they found a use for and made it work.

I just had to bring this book to the notice of radio people as it has been researched thoroughly and is an enthralling read. The early difficulties in making a "coherer" work better was of great interest to me for as one of the demonstrators at the Marconi Jubillee Exhibition in London in the fifties I played a lot with coherers, and the magnetic detectors which replaced them.
I also had the "honor" of sending the morse background for the BBC coverage of the show, ahhh memories de chas (Pint)

R651400
14th February 2009, 15:56
Chas I was thinking of my days at LNC. Oersteds, Coulombs, Ohms, Farads, Henries, Volts, Amperes et al. Have I missed something in my senior years that there is a unit Maxwell or Einstein?

BobClay
14th February 2009, 16:29
I think you are being a bit pedantic here guys. There's an old saying ...

"theoretical physicists attack and drive back the frontiers of knowlege" ... so the likes of Galileo, Newton, Einstein, Maxwell and many others.

Given this knowledge, then "engineers come along and put it to good use" (or bad use, if they're military engineers ...but that is a relative viewpoint).

Einstein did not create the bomb with his simple Energy equals Mass equation. But he certainly showed that a massive amount of energy is obtainable from a very small amount of mass.

Revel in the knowledge that each one discovered, don't try to table them. (Hard thing to do anyway with the likes of Einstein).

(Gleam)

R651400
14th February 2009, 17:07
#8 ...or more than a tad of pontification.
My point was purism as opposed to practice.
James Clerk Maxwell's theory on electro-magnetism provided the path that gives the entire world today the opportunity to communicate and that alone I feel has not been universely recognised as say in recent years Hertz and Tesla.

BobClay
14th February 2009, 17:22
I agree.

But Maxwell was a theoretical physicist. Like Einstein, not that many had a clue what he was talking (or mathematicalling if there is such a word) about. Faraday was a friend of Maxwell but he was utterly perplexed because he didn't understand the mathematics (and Faraday was no dummy).

I personally see Maxwell as the Einstein of the 19th Century, but like Einstein, he was part of a very secluded clique who had any understanding of what he was saying. This doesn't lend itself to recognition by the public because even now, his ideas are quite complex and difficult to understand.

On the other hand, an oscillator, an aerial and a detector, are fairly straightforward things to get your head around. (Unless you've got a b1tch of a fault on an ST1200 synthesiser).

(Smoke)

Mimcoman
15th February 2009, 13:53
Chas I was thinking of my days at LNC. Oersteds, Coulombs, Ohms, Farads, Henries, Volts, Amperes et al. Have I missed something in my senior years that there is a unit Maxwell or Einstein?
Yup - a Maxwell is a unit of magnetic flux. I remember this coming up in the classroom at Abdn Tech College in the late 60s and the instructor (Mac MacKinnon?) saying that Clerk Maxwell had been a professor at Marischal College, University of Aberdeen, with some items belonging to him being on display in the University museum.

charles henry
15th February 2009, 16:00
I rather feel that this thread is going round in circles.

History shows that the minute someone proves something is possible others immediately start doing it, examples climbing Everest, the minute mile.

Pure scientists in effect prove the existance of or behaviour of something.
It then takes practical business men to push, pull and modify it and than make it do something practical which they can sell.

Quick question, "Who not only invented television, made it work and created the first usable system that the BBC used back in the early thirties.

The answer is Baird, BUT others developed a more useable and "better" system which is now used all over the world. Baird proved it could be done, BBC showed that it could be used, but others perfected the thing.

C'est la view
de chas

R651400
15th February 2009, 18:02
Yup - a Maxwell is a unit of magnetic flux.
Chas my apologies for keeping the thread in a spin or excuse pun, a state of flux.
Mimcoman, re quotes I thought the same and went through the em section of Admiralty Handbook 1938 Vol 1 and saw no reference to Maxwell.
Google speak... Magnetic flux unit is Weber.

charles henry
16th February 2009, 14:33
[QUOTE=R651400;292587]Chas my apologies for keeping the thread in a spin or excuse pun, a state of flux.

Non need om, I have been in a constant spin for most of my life and I really dont need to excuse punishment!!
de chas(Pint)

R651400
17th February 2009, 09:17
Non need om, I have been in a constant spin for most of my life and I really dont need to excuse punishment!
Constant spin?
You and me both and still finding it difficult to step off the carousel!
Punishment?
Depends on one's personal interpretation. Non?

charles henry
17th February 2009, 14:05
Constant spin?
You and me both and still finding it difficult to step off the carousel!
Punishment?
Depends on one's personal interpretation. Non?

At 82 I dont want to step off the carousel, will be falling off soon enough
meanwhile c'est la vie jouyeuse
de chas

R651400
17th February 2009, 15:50
Chas not an expression I'm too familiar with and think it has US origins but you've got 12 more turns on the coil than me.
In parallel with the right Leyden jar/condenser or capacitor long may we keep oscillating.

R651400
17th February 2009, 15:53
Just had a thought that before capacitance became farads it was measured in jars. Mine's a pint of Belhaven St Andrews svp..

Mimcoman
21st February 2009, 03:34
.
Mimcoman, re quotes I thought the same and went through the em section of Admiralty Handbook 1938 Vol 1 and saw no reference to Maxwell.
Google speak... Magnetic flux unit is Weber.

Well, not wanting to start a battle (especially with an old GND man(Thumb) ), but...

My Google says:
"The compound derived CGS unit, the maxwell, abbreviated as Mx, is the unit for the magnetic flux. The unit was previously called a line. The unit name honors James Clerk Maxwell, who presented the unified theory of electromagnetism.
1 maxwell = 1 gauss * cm2 = 108 weber
In a magnetic field of strength one gauss, one maxwell is the total flux across a surface of one square centimetre perpendicular to the field.

Units of magnetic flux CGS units "

and Wikepia says:
"....in 1935, TC 1 recommended names for several electrical units, including the weber for the practical unit of magnetic flux (and the maxwell for the CGS unit)..."

(Draws sword and hides behind nearest tree(Night) )

R651400
21st February 2009, 04:18
Will settle for that Mimcoman tks vm for the research and effort. I now vaguely remember Maxwells from LNC days but e & m theory to a fifteen year old from Harry Watson was not only a mystery but a complete headache.
Morning Star 2 de GND gone me.

Mimcoman
21st February 2009, 05:22
Fit like, R651400:

Thanks for reply. Gee - You're up late. I thought I was the only one around in NW Europe at this time of day....

Up 2555/1856 - turn number 2 ...

R651400
21st February 2009, 05:33
Jist chaffin awa, Loon. Fit like yersel? QTR 1 hour ahead QTH SE France.

Shipbuilder
21st February 2009, 07:37
I suppose that the moment something is "invented" and a working prototype built, a large number of others will suddenly appear and say "that was easy, anyone could have thought of that." I belief Lee de Forest produced the first triode, but didn't really find a use for it - but - he still produced it and deserves great credit for that! Some people can start the ball rolling, others can keep it rolling. Team effort!
Bob

BobClay
21st February 2009, 09:10
Team effort!

The phrase 'standing on the shoulders of giants' is often attributed to Newton, although my guess is all the pioneers have had similar opinions. Each one puts another rung in the ladder, and allows the next in line to climb a bit higher.

Is it really important whether or not some unit is named after them ? surely their work and the new ground they gained is what is important. That can't be changed by any committee anywhere anytime.

As an example a physicist by the name of Theodor Kaluza started playing around with Einstein's General Relativity field equations many years ago. He decided on the novel idea of seeing what happened if you assumed there was another space dimension in addition to the three we all know and love. When he did this something amazing happened, Maxwell's equations emerged. By putting in this other dimension, he went some way to unifying fundamental forces in physics. Even Einstein was deeply impressed by these findings.

This work was largely forgotten for many decades until it was re-discovered with a vengeance, and developed into modern String Theory. Professor Kaluza might be largely forgotten by the public, but his work is for ever. And Maxwell was one of the giant's shoulders he was standing on.

:)

charles henry
21st February 2009, 14:14
[QUOTE=Mimcoman;2.
1 maxwell = 1 gauss * cm2 = 108 weber
In a magnetic field of strength one gauss, one maxwell is the total flux across a surface of one square centimetre perpendicular to the field.

Having spent most of my working life in what our government referred to as
"the leading edge of technology" I must thank you Mimcoman for I am suddenly aware that I could have lived my whole life and died without being aware of the information you posted.
As I am too far afield to buy you one I will drink it to your health
de chas(Pint)

Mimcoman
22nd February 2009, 01:54
[QUOTE=Mimcoman;2.
As I am too far afield to buy you one I will drink it to your health
de chas(Pint)

Thank you, Chas - I will dedicate a drop of the real amber nectar to you later today(Thumb) . I have to say that the Maxwells and Webers stayed behind when I left college.

QUOTE Is it really important whether or not some unit is named after them ? surely their work and the new ground they gained is what is important. That can't be changed by any committee anywhere anytime. QUOTE

Hi Bob. You're absolutely right that the work/ground gained is more important, but I imagine that the naming of units, effects, etc was as a mark of respect to the persons concerned.

BobClay
22nd February 2009, 12:11
was as a mark of respect to the persons concerned.

I understand.

I must admit that some of the names of those units you couldn't have made up better:

e.g. Volt, Amp, Ohm.

(I was always a bit dubious about the Mho, but I understand the logic, although I believe this is no longer the accepted unit of conductance).

:-)

charles henry
22nd February 2009, 16:00
I understand.



(I was always a bit dubious about the Mho, but I understand the logic, although I believe this is no longer the accepted unit of conductance).

:-)

I always thought Mho was Ohm's significant other....
de chas