Alice L Moran / Amsterdam

manowari
13th February 2009, 01:23
Does any one have any pix of the tug Alice L Moran which I believe became the Statesman for United Towing and the Amsterdam for Wijsmuller..

Bruce Carson
13th February 2009, 01:35
There's a good picture here:
http://www.ibiblio.org/maritime/photolibrary/displayimage.php?album=2927&pos=0
http://www.ibiblio.org/maritime/photolibrary/displayimage.php?pid=10687&fullsize=1

meechingman
13th February 2009, 10:39
Not sure about her becoing the Amsterdam. Wijsmuller's post-war Amsterdam (II) was formerly the German tug Hamburg. Wijsmuller bought her in 1975.

Plenty of her as Statesman on here, but the photo Bruce links to is the only one I've seen of her as Alice, and even that seems to have been touched in - look at the name.

Andy

manowari
14th February 2009, 01:53
Thank you for the pointers to the Alice M. This is a pic of her as the Amsterdam in the 1990s when I used her on salvage ops in the Persian Gulf.. A bit of smoke as the 4 x EMD units were showing signs of age....

RayJordandpo
14th February 2009, 14:58
I always thought that the 'Alice L Moran' was actually built for the American Navy then sold to Morans. who sold her on to United Towing

manowari
15th February 2009, 00:18
As far as I can gather from papers Ive seen plus material on board the tug, she was built for Morans as a tug / private yacht. The main comment being how on earth can you have a tug with a clipper bow, you certainly cant push with it but I can say it has been good in rough weather...

meechingman
15th February 2009, 12:53
Thanks for the information on her being Amsterdam. The usually very reliable 'Holland's Glory' site - http://www.zeesleepvaart.com/index.eng.htm - doesn't list an Amsterdam III at all. I guess Wijsmuller must have taken her on when they lost Amsterdam II.
As for the bow, you couldn't push with the bow on most ocean going tugs of that era either.

MervynHutton
15th February 2009, 13:27
I have a picture of Alice L Moran taken in December 1967. We were towed in a 20,000 DWT tanker, the "Regent Eagle" from the Bahamas where we had a serious breakdown to Newport News at an average speed of about 11 knots. She was only towing at about 60% at that. I believe she was the most powerful tug afloat at the time. Very impressive!

BillH
15th February 2009, 17:03
I have a picture of Alice L Moran taken in December 1967. We were towed in a 20,000 DWT tanker, the "Regent Eagle" from the Bahamas where we had a serious breakdown to Newport News at an average speed of about 11 knots. She was only towing at about 60% at that. I believe she was the most powerful tug afloat at the time. Very impressive!
STATESMAN 1 (1973 - 1977)

O.N. 359156. 1,167g. 183n. 813d. 211'2" x 44'1" x 19'6"
Four, 16-cyl. 2 S. C. S. A. (216 x 254mm) GM 16-567BC vee type engines made by General Motors Corporation, La Grange, Illinois, geared in pairs, to twin controllable pitch propellers. 11,200 BHP. 90 tons bollard pull. 16kts.

2.10.1965: Keel laid as ALICE L. MORAN by Kure Zosensho, Kure (Yard No. 106), for Moran International Towing Corp, New York, under Liberian registry.

13.1.1966: Launched.

5.3.1966: Completed.

1968: Transferred to Moran Marine Charters Inc., New York (Liberian registry).

1969: Renamed STATESMAN, for charter to the United Towing Company Ltd., Hull.

21.1.1970: Charterers restyled as United Towing Ltd.

1971: Transferred to Marine Charters Corp, Liberia.

20.2.1973: Purchased by United Towing (Statesman) Ltd., Hull, (United Towing (Ocean Tugs) Ltd., managers), and renamed STATESMAN I. (There was already a cargo vessel STATESMAN under British registry).

1977: Renamed STATESMAN.

17.3.1978: Owners restyled as United Towing (Frobisher) Ltd., (same managers).

15.8.1978: Sold Viscount Marine Ltd., Singapore, and renamed SALVANGUARD.

1981: Sold to Armco Pacific Financial Services Ltd., Singapore.

1985: Selco (Singapore) Pte. Ltd., Singapore, appointed as managers.

1986: Sold to GATX Leasing Corp, (for charter to Wijsmuller Salvage B. V. Ijmuiden), renamed AMSTERDAM and transferred to Vanuatu flag.

1988: Sold to Gulf Development Marine Services Company, and transferred to Honduras flag.

1990: Transferred to the Gulf Development Corporation EC (GULFCORP), Bahrain, retaining Honduras flag.

1995: Abdulla Ahmed Nass Group, Bahrain appointed as managers. (Piet Van Damme)

2004 still listed by LR without managers having been listed.

RayJordandpo
15th February 2009, 20:23
After all these years and I always thought she was originally built for the US Navy, hence the very basic accommodation, how wrong was I.

She was a very good tug in bad weather, I can vouch for that and had an excellent towing winch which was a pleasure to work with compared to some of the crap on other United Towing tugs.

manowari
21st March 2009, 20:08
The Amsterdam / ex Satesman is alive and well alongside in Bahrain awaiting the props to be refurbished and refitted.

peteb
21st March 2009, 23:45
manowari. Nice to hear she's still alive, must be 43 years old now.
Regards Pete.

todd
8th April 2009, 12:39
There was an interesting story about the `Statesman`...during her operations in the `Cod-Wars`she was seen on UK TV doing her thing,the camera panned around and it could be seen that she was registered in MONROVIA..As it happens an old Dowager with`clout`in the hull area posed
a question in the House of Lords "What is a Liberian ship doing looking after British fishermen ?" Statesman went from being chartered to being owned by UTC `overnight` A very patriotic story if true.
The last time I saw her was as the `Salvanguard` whilst we were on the salvage of the `Thorshavet` together 24th Dec 1984.

todd
9th April 2009, 19:52
There was an interesting story about the `Statesman`...during her operations in the `Cod-Wars`she was seen on UK TV doing her thing,the camera panned around and it could be seen that she was registered in MONROVIA..As it happens an old Dowager with`clout`in the hull area posed
a question in the House of Lords "What is a Liberian ship doing looking after British fishermen ?" Statesman went from being chartered to being owned by UTC `overnight` A very patriotic story if true.
The last time I saw her was as the `Salvanguard` whilst we were on the salvage of the `Thorshavet` together 24th Dec 1984.

PS.....I have been looking through old paper work and I noticed that on the `Thorshavet` salvage the `Amsterdam` was also on the job,a name that the `Salvanguard` was to take a year or so later.
`Funny world the world of towing.

Jim.

todd
13th April 2009, 13:50
PS.....I have been looking through old paper work and I noticed that on the `Thorshavet` salvage the `Amsterdam` was also on the job,a name that the `Salvicount` was to take a year or so later.
`Funny world the world of towing.

Jim.

I apologise I put the `Salvicount` down as the `Salvanguard` in my original text.

todd
13th April 2009, 13:58
There was an interesting story about the `Statesman`...during her operations in the `Cod-Wars`she was seen on UK TV doing her thing,the camera panned around and it could be seen that she was registered in MONROVIA..As it happens an old Dowager with`clout`in the hull area posed
a question in the House of Lords "What is a Liberian ship doing looking after British fishermen ?" Statesman went from being chartered to being owned by UTC `overnight` A very patriotic story if true.
The last time I saw her was as the `Salvanguard` whilst we were on the salvage of the `Thorshavet` together 24th Dec 1984.

My mistake it should have been `Salviscount` OOP`s
Jim

todd
17th April 2009, 13:11
I have messed up again.....been looking through paperwork again and I got the `Salviscount` (Lloydsman) mixed up with the `Salvanguard`(Statesman).In the photo`s I have it was the `Statesman` that was on the `Thorshavet` job.
Apologize all round.

Jim

B.Nicholson
3rd May 2009, 05:38
I have messed up again.....been looking through paperwork again and I got the `Salviscount` (Lloydsman) mixed up with the `Salvanguard`(Statesman).In the photo`s I have it was the `Statesman` that was on the `Thorshavet` job.
Apologize all round.

Jim

Statesman/ Salvanguard .
I relieved Neville Morris in Djibouti airport where I was under arrest for illeagal entry. Neville was flying out to Singapore but brought my enty papers to the airport for Djibouti. So I was released. !!Salvanguard 4 engines 2 props. I was on her for 4 months. Whow a wonderful boat. I loved her or him, whatever. Seriously I did not want to go home. I was relieved by Martin Eve ? any one remember him.
Ch/Eng was Bob McFarlain

B.Nicholson
4th May 2009, 02:39
As far as I can gather from papers Ive seen plus material on board the tug, she was built for Morans as a tug / private yacht. The main comment being how on earth can you have a tug with a clipper bow, you certainly cant push with it but I can say it has been good in rough weather...

The Salvanguard was possibly the most sucessful salvage tug ever, she did 6 or 7 big Sal/Ops every year with Selco and Semco. But she was haunted. Just one area down on the bottom deck was freezing. And the officers rec room .I wont go into too much but the crew were terrified .And me
Bob

RayJordandpo
4th May 2009, 16:09
The Salvanguard was possibly the most sucessful salvage tug ever, she did 6 or 7 big Sal/Ops every year with Selco and Semco. But she was haunted. Just one area down on the bottom deck was freezing. And the officers rec room .I wont go into too much but the crew were terrified .And me
Bob

A young deckie was killed on her when she was 'Satesman'. He fell on a deck cleat and died of internal injuries.

B.Nicholson
4th May 2009, 23:03
A young deckie was killed on her when she was 'Satesman'. He fell on a deck cleat and died of internal injuries.

Hello ray,
You could be right . Salvanguard definitly had a presence onboard. But she was a Magic Tug . But for handling and manouevering she and the Smit Hunter the best ever.
Bob N

RayJordandpo
5th May 2009, 12:20
When UTC bought her from Morans I thought she was a fine looking tug, let down by the crap accommodation i.e. metal bunks and tin lockers in the cabins, that's why I was always under the impression she was originally built for the US Navy (how wrong was I) She had the best towing winch I have ever come across, a one off which was apparently designed by an American engineer. You could 'shorten in' with hardly needing to reduce power. I could tell you a story about a certain UTC boss trying to buy a new tow wire for her on the cheap in Capetown and ending up with an old Table Mountain cable car wire - which was useless. But I'd better not!

cueball44
6th March 2010, 23:29
The Salvanguard was possibly the most sucessful salvage tug ever, she did 6 or 7 big Sal/Ops every year with Selco and Semco. But she was haunted. Just one area down on the bottom deck was freezing. And the officers rec room .I wont go into too much but the crew were terrified .And me
Bob

she most likely is haunted after loseing PETE BOULTEN in the manner we did, total Fxxx up,i woke him up when we got to the salvage job, still gets to me after all these years, happend in 74, anyway i was off the ship has soon as i had the chance, i can still see cadet thompson crying with his head resting on the bulkhead,they were mates! W.HAWKER.

decky74
25th May 2010, 11:02
When UTC bought her from Morans I thought she was a fine looking tug, let down by the crap accommodation i.e. metal bunks and tin lockers in the cabins, that's why I was always under the impression she was originally built for the US Navy (how wrong was I) She had the best towing winch I have ever come across, a one off which was apparently designed by an American engineer. You could 'shorten in' with hardly needing to reduce power. I could tell you a story about a certain UTC boss trying to buy a new tow wire for her on the cheap in Capetown and ending up with an old Table Mountain cable car wire - which was useless. But I'd better not!

l was allways under the impression she was made as a fire fighting tug thats why inbord she was all metal, regads dave,

todd
25th May 2010, 11:29
A lot of vessels built for American Companies were built with a Government Grant with the proviso that in certain circumstances they could be 'commandeered' by the Government without cost. They were then built with the strict fire-retardant fittings which also brought down costs for both parties.
In a lot of the offshore craft that were built under US guidelines the accommodation was actually 'classed' as cargo space and had plates bolted on in certain areas that could be called 'cargo hatches' when any inspections were carried out. It must have been a real stretch of the imagination in some cases I witnessed to call some cabins, fitted with double beds, sofas etc., "Cargo Space" but never-the-less they did.

Jim

lochluichart
25th May 2010, 11:51
Statesman/ Salvanguard .
I relieved Neville Morris in Djibouti airport where I was under arrest for illeagal entry. Neville was flying out to Singapore but brought my enty papers to the airport for Djibouti. So I was released. !!Salvanguard 4 engines 2 props. I was on her for 4 months. Whow a wonderful boat. I loved her or him, whatever. Seriously I did not want to go home. I was relieved by Martin Eve ? any one remember him.
Ch/Eng was Bob McFarlain

Met up with Martin and his wife Ann in Lagos a few years back. Still keep in contact by email and can send address to you if you PM me. Martin is still active and doing STS jobs as mooring master mainly in Med last I heard.
Rgds

Joe w
26th May 2010, 19:06
she most likely is haunted after loseing PETE BOULTEN in the manner we did, total Fxxx up,i woke him up when we got to the salvage job, still gets to me after all these years, happend in 74, anyway i was off the ship has soon as i had the chance, i can still see cadet thompson crying with his head resting on the bulkhead,they were mates! W.HAWKER.

Before Pete Bolton deid the first death on Statesman was in Durban alongside Sugar wharf and his name was Steve Russel who's father was a trawler skipper out of Hull and Ray was right the rope jumped off the big steel stern rubbing band and caught him and he hit the back of his head. -nice guy as was as Pete Bolly.

cueball44
26th May 2010, 21:41
hi joe, a chap named 'JOHN DRYDEN' mentioned you the other day, he answered one of my post's on the 'UNKNOWN TANKER' thread, said he had a drink with you in durban in the early 70's , by the way the hull trawler skipper who's son died on the 'STATESMAN' was called 'JOE RUSSELL', win,'cueball44'.

peteb
26th May 2010, 23:24
Before Pete Bolton deid the first death on Statesman was in Durban alongside Sugar wharf and his name was Steve Russel who's father was a trawler skipper out of Hull and Ray was right the rope jumped off the big steel stern rubbing band and caught him and he hit the back of his head. -nice guy as was as Pete Bolly.

Hi Joe, Win, Quote from Hull Daily Mail, sorry no date.
Stephen Russell (18) of Anlaby received fatal injuries on Saturday in a 4ft fall from the bulwalk rail to the deck of the tug Statesman. His father, skipper Joseph Russell of the Hull trawler, Lord Nelson was told of the tragedy while his vessel was fishing off the Norwegian coast. He left the trawler yeserday and her owners, Hellyer Brothers Ltd., are flying him home today.
Stephen went to sea as a trawler galley boy. He was a sparehand when, early this year, he joined United Towing as a seaman.

Pete.

cueball44
27th May 2010, 15:46
thank's pete, his father probably thought his son was safer on 'the tug's' than 'trawler's,well that's cruel fate for you!, we have all lost friend's&family to the seagoing industry's, 'BUT WE STILL LOVE IT', if it's in your blood it's like a drug that we are addicted to,we will never get rid of it!,win,'cueball44'.

Joe w
27th May 2010, 18:06
hi joe, a chap named 'JOHN DRYDEN' mentioned you the other day, he answered one of my post's on the 'UNKNOWN TANKER' thread, said he had a drink with you in durban in the early 70's , by the way the hull trawler skipper who's son died on the 'STATESMAN' was called 'JOE RUSSELL', win,'cueball44'.
Yes knew John Dryden was with Bank line and attended Trinity House same time as and John Linford last time I saw him he had just moved from Whitby to York working ashore.
I do remember drinking with him in Durban along with Les Fant as you know Durban was our salvage station and we got to know all the regular vessels into Durban and knew which ship bars were welcoming cor some Pi-- ups I can tell you.
Hope to see all you guys on the 03rd June.
Looking forward to it
Take care
JoeW

Jan M
30th November 2012, 07:02
Hello,

The Amsterdam (IMO 6607525) has arrived 2012-04-27 in Alang.

best regards
Jan