Favorite Engines

DICK SLOAN
10th March 2009, 23:25
What was your favorite engines to work and why.... while at sea

billyboy
11th March 2009, 01:00
The Crossley two strokes. they were a low maintainance Engine and easy to work on. They were also very reliable

Steve Oatey
11th March 2009, 01:17
Sulzer RND (8RND90)

Beartracks
11th March 2009, 04:25
Sulzer RLB90 Last of the Loop Scavenged Sulzers. I preferred them to the RTA's that replaced them even though the latter where far more fuel efficient because of their increased bore stroke ratio.
Beartracks

kewl dude
11th March 2009, 05:52
"What was your favorite engines to work and why.... while at sea"

Work on at sea?

Steam Turbines

Never worked on a steam turbine at sea. Typically the USCG/ABS required turbines be torn down for inspection each five years. Often nothing was done except perhaps adjust diaphragms for wear.

Greg Hayden

J Boyde
11th March 2009, 07:45
Sulver. Dont remember the model but there is a photo of the engine of the Komata in test in 1947 in the SN. She really earned her life
Jim B

chadburn
11th March 2009, 07:51
To work on at sea?. It has to be a "kiss" Triple Expansion, why? not having to enter a hot crankcase with all the hazards it posed while the ship was rolling around.

Fieldsy
11th March 2009, 08:54
Sulzer every time.

Least favourite?

Pielstick - by a country mile.

R58484956
11th March 2009, 11:07
Steam turbines every time, never saw the inside of one. Well not at sea. Thanks to Mr Parsons.

Peter Fielding
11th March 2009, 11:12
What was your favorite engines to work and why.... while at sea

Anything that didn't need to be worked on at sea, so yes, steam turbines.

Beartracks
11th March 2009, 14:56
I by far prefer diesels to Steam Turbines. I served in ships powered by both as well as Liberties Fort type ships and Great Lakers powered by nineteenth century type Triple Expansion Steam Engines (which I loved the best)I was Chief Engineer in a number of steamers in a class built about twenty five years ago for express containerized service to Australia and New Zealand from US East Coast and Gulf Coast ports. The vessels (still in US Coast wise trade and now operated by Horizon Lines)have since operated in multiple trades. I'm informed they are kept in tip-top shape by Horizon the current operator.

I was chief in these ships both for Farrell Lines in the Australian/New Zealand Trades as well as US Lines in US inter coastal/Pacific Rim Far East Trades and found their Westinghouse Turbine Main and Auxiliary Units to be less than dependable as well as poorly designed and configured. When I was in American Marketer ex Austral Ensign the 1500 KW Turbo Generator ran away and tried to crack the sonic barrier after the First Mike "Iron Mike" Baylor slowed the forced draft fans down at FWE Honolulu. Mike had to lean over the turbine casing to manually shut off the steam when the tachometer was just about pegged. He told me it was definitely a spiritual experience. We found problems with the governor steam valve stem as well as the over speed trip latching device. After a fascinating afternoon of experimentation we devised methods of putting the Turbo Unit on of off Line with out having it self destruct. I set a precedent that either the First or myself were to be present during either evolution. I called the home office and also sent a long detailed technical message to the Superintendent Engineer but was told not to call the Classification Society as to quote that gentleman "They'll make us tie the F____G class of ships up". He told me he'd take care of this. Six months after my Honolulu runaway incident the Turbo Generator on the American Merchant a sister ship ran away in Long Beach California and blew shrapnel all over the engine room. Nobody shut the steam valve on that one because nobody had balls as big as "Iron Mikes". Thank God nobody was killed but the Mate did get his neck nicked by a flying turbine blade. I wonder what that bastard was doing in the engine spaces to begin with. It's enough to make one paranoid.

When the American Merchant was the Austral Endurance the quill shaft tying the high speed gear to the intermediate gear on the low pressure side of the cross compounded reduction gear unit failed by shearing in the torsional plane. This was caused by metal fatigue because some "Rocket Scientist" at Westinghouse designed a critical right at the most economical range of the operating RPM. The ship was a day out of Auckland NZ home bound when this happened and was out of service for six months getting the reduction gear unit re-built. Thank God no lives lost in this one either but I'm sure it got the Chief's attention. His name was Billy Leete and he's a good pal of mine. I used to call the US Line Engineering Superintendent who said he was going to fix the over speed problem on the Generator unit Mister McFoul. I didn't call him McFoul to his face but he did constantly use the "F" word a lot. Just about every other word if I remember correctly.

Respectfully submitted;
Hugh D Curran CDR USNS (ret)
former Chief Engineer SS Austral Ensign SS Austral Endurance and SS American Marketer

JoK
11th March 2009, 16:01
Skinner Uniflows. Never had to open them except for regulatory.

blurb10
11th March 2009, 20:04
DOXFORDS, DOXFORDS,DOXFORDS.....
fOR EASE OF ACCESS AND RELIABILITY...

(40 YEARS EXPERIENCE AS A MARINE ENGINEER AND IN SHIP REPAID.

Beartracks
11th March 2009, 22:45
I wish to post a couple of replies I received from my old boss and friend Don Burnham, Don was the Engineering Superintendent of Delta /Grace Lines out of New Orleans for many years.
Don Burnham to me, Smith, MEBA-Retirees
show details 4:45 PM (43 minutes ago)

Reply1

Westinghouse for years used in commercials the phrase, "You can be sure if it"s Westinghouse.", to which we would add; "Yeah, you can be damned sure. Sure you're going to have problems." I caused me no end of embarrassment that the president of Westinghouse at one time was named Donald Burnham. No relative. We had three ships at Delta Line with Westinghouse equipment. Those ships gave us more problems than the rest of the fleet.
The turbo-gens always had problems with gland seal water getting in the LO. They also had that cup-valve system for the TG governors. A relief Chief Engr took one of the ships out, knowing nothing of the idiosyncrasies of the TGs. When the cycles started falling, he put both TGs on line. Left orders not to centrifuge the oil with the TG on the line, so you can see where this is going. When the vessel was sailing from Paranaqua, the ship took a heavy roll, No.1 TG sucked water into the LO system and wiped ALL the bearings and cycles took a further dip, so this "Chief Engineer" ran down into the engineroom and stops the main engine to raise the cycles!! Now, all of you know stopping the engine has no effect on the cycles, BUT, it sure had an effect on the Captain, who called the Chief on the phone and begged him to give him some turns!! The were sailing through rocks that looked like crocodile teeth. They went into Santos for repairs. Captain was a good friend and was still shaking when I got to Santos.
GE turbines, generator, electrical equipment, the whole brand I have great faith in.
And I still have a love affair with the dear departed Doxford. It was a challenge and I think we both won.
Fraternally,
Donald C. Burnham

Reply 2

Don Burnham to Lagniappe2, me, James, meba-retirees
show details Mar 9 (2 days ago)

Reply

Hugh -
That Doxford engine was truly loved by a lot of us. I never imagined walkways and lights in the crankcase of an engine!
I spent almost a year on the MS Trans-Gulf, owned and operated by Mississippi Valley Barge Line. It was their only ship. Formerly the Esso Little Rock, Sun Hull 191, she was delivered 1/1941. converted at Alabama DD to a half-assed self-unloader bulk carrier with large deck cranes and a belt system alongside the holds which never worked. Engine was 5 cyl 32" x 40"/55", 8250 BHP Sun-Doxford. That engine was the biggest thing I ever saw. Remember, this was 1965.
I had my brand new Chief Engineer, Steam license and a Third Diesel, and temporarily left Delta Line because I wanted to raise my Motor License to Chief. Then I got on the ship and the only thing on it that was diesel was the main engine! Three boilers. Two turbo-generators exactly like those on an East Coast C-2. Emergency generator was a one-cylinder recip. steam like a Liberty ship generator. Pumps were steam recips or electric centrifugal. And I was the only one onboard who had a Steam License of any sort.
I had made an agreement with the Valley Line Company Rep, who was also the purchasing agent, Port Steward, Port Engineer, you name it, for that ship to be signed on as Observing Chief Engineer, to avoid any hassle with the USCG later on. This pissed the Captain off to a huge extent. Every time we signed on or paid off he would *****, "Chief Engineer. You ain't nothin' but a Third." So he and I got off to a wonderful start.
The above mentioned Co. Rep. would fly ahead to Bombay, Alexandria, Rio, Santos, wherever we were going and grease the skids, so to speak. We got quite friendly. He once told me how little money it took to get priority treatment in most ports. In Rio, we putt-putted in right to the dock while several Delta Line ships laid at anchor. Delta Line had a major office in Rio, but we got to the dock ahead of them.
Me and the other two "Wipers" pulled pistons from 0800 to 2400 in Rio, when I would clean up and run ashore to do some research on the local fauna. Regularly, my good friend the Captain would make remarks at meals about how he was going out to Copacabana to the nightclubs and he would take care of the girls for me, Mr. Chief Engineer. It all evened out when we got to Houston and I paid off with more than the Captain. That SOB was really pissed then.
We spent Christmas at sea and there were no decorations aboard so I made a little Christmas tree. I found a large recip. pump water chest valve and stuck the handle from a toilet plunger into it. Drilled holes at different angles into the handle. I wrapped some welding rods with aluminum foil strips that I had cut one side of to appear like needles, and stuck them in the holes. The Captain went nuts when he saw that and said he now knew I was really stupid. When his wife came aboard the ship in Houston and said how darling and clever the tree was and asked if she could take it home, I magnanimously gave it to her, knowing the Captain would be haunted by it.
I swear, that engine would run on anything. The engine was rigged by Esso as a test engine with heated fuel and steam jacketed oil lines, to try different fuels. We would regularly bunker in Barbados where the oil was blended to around 1500 Redwood. I discovered about two days out of Barbados that no one had remembered to turn the steam back on and we were running on cold oil just fine, thank you. Everytime I think of that ship, I hear the "Chunk-Chunk" of her reciprocating 6 foot diameter scavenging air pump echoing throough the ship's house.
Don

Macphail
11th March 2009, 22:50
The best engine I ever sailed with was on the Venetia of Harrison Clyde, 1975, Sulzer RND90 built by IHI Aioi Japan. Main problem was gutting out the upper and lower scavenge spaces and the large amount of reed valves.

I have only sailed on one steam ship, (Kettle and Fan), the big work load in port was a survey on the HP steam drum, therefore the steam turbine was an easy number, plus the fact that 40% of the fuel energy went to the sea via the condenser. Not an engineering challenge just sit back and enjoy it.

John.

Pat Kennedy
11th March 2009, 23:40
Knowing next to nothing about ships engines, I preferred the ones where you could actually see something going up and down, and the big thick rubber bands that appeared to be doing the work. (Doxford ?) I still like to think of all those engine room crowd winding up the elastic band every night.
My brother who was a marine engineer, loved the steam turbines as found on Blue Funnel 'H' class ships, and also had nice things to say about the diesel/electric engines as found on the Liverpool Pilot Boats, where he served his apprenticeship.

Satanic Mechanic
12th March 2009, 08:00
Steam turbines - Stal and Mitsubishi
Rock Crushers - MAN B&W 6 S70 MCC
Gene's - steam - Stal, diesel Wartilla and the new Hyundai HIMSENS

Don't ever mention Pielsticks, Hedemoras or Paxmans in my company(Cloud)

WilliamH
12th March 2009, 09:07
My favorite engines were the ones on the aeroplane taking me on leave.

Fieldsy
12th March 2009, 09:43
Steam turbines - Stal and Mitsubishi
Rock Crushers - MAN B&W 6 S70 MCC
Gene's - steam - Stal, diesel Wartilla and the new Hyundai HIMSENS

Don't ever mention Pielsticks, Hedemoras or Paxmans in my company(Cloud)

Paxmans - there's a name I'd forgotten. They were the gene's on the ship I did my first three trips on. More prone to water and oil leaks than anything I ever worked on.

Leccy
12th March 2009, 10:06
Steam turbines every time, never saw the inside of one. Well not at sea. Thanks to Mr Parsons.

I bet you saw plenty of boiler insides though !
Leccy

R58484956
12th March 2009, 11:57
Leccy, never went inside a boiler furnace, on P&O we carried a boilermaker and on Cunard never ever had boiler problems, at least on the ship I sailed on.
Only excitment was when BOT had safety valve testing, and when they had gone, screw the SV back down again. Not exactly H&S.

Rai
13th March 2009, 20:27
What about the nine cylinder goteverken with exhuast valves.(It's been a few years, spelling don't look right)
But they were good.

marshynzs
13th March 2009, 22:52
Sulzer RND, Sulzer RD, in that order,and by a considerable distance.
Steam Turbines/ Turbo Electric, Steam Recip.
B&W GF, Doxford.
Nice to see that Pielstick and Paxmans are as revered as ever!!!!!!
With the past history and reputations of those engines it beggars belief that shipowners would still install such equipment on their ships.
I expect someone on SN will have a good word to say about them although on second thoughts possibly not!!
You may wonder why Doxfords is some way down my list of preferred modes of propulsion,i had two spells on LB types,both elderly and especially so in one case (1939).Both vessels were twin fives and of course on HFO.
Having previously been on B&W four stroke engines those Doxfords were a bit of a revelation masses of impressive moving parts an compared to a Buchi blower very quiet.The volume of work in maintaining those engines was considerable,all units would be overhauled on the NZ/Aus coast plus inspection and adjustments on bottom end and side rod bearings,in short a big work up.For all the work we still had a great time on the NZ coast plus the invaluable experience i gained in the crank case!!!
My first experience of Sulzers was on a coastal run from Swansea to Avonmouth.From the moment that engine fired up i was greatly impressed by the sound and by the whir of the gears,it jist sounded precision and i became hooked on them.I sailed on Sulzers by five different licencees and found them to be first class in all respects,thats not to say they were completely trouble free but nothing too significant.I came ashore in 1968 and had the job of maintaining them and had the job of maintaining them for 16 years.As i have mentiond ,the best engine by far (this should provoke a few comments)!!!!
Marshynzs

Macphail
13th March 2009, 23:43
The engineers train of thought is that there are no favourites, .like a bottle of the critter, some are better than others.
The problem I found with the Pielstick was all the potential for leaking joints.
The Doxford was the hoses on the LBD.
The MAN on the big G’s where OK at low revs, normal power, failure.
Understand and treat the engine with respect and you will get a fair return

All the best,
John.

eldersuk
13th March 2009, 23:55
I must agree with marshynzs with regard to Sulzers but for purely sentimental reasons I'd have to put Doxford LBDs on an equal footing.

Derek

orcades
15th March 2009, 02:08
Served my apprentiship on steam turbines while they were being built in Vickers Armstrongs Ltd Barrow, sailed on them an engineer on the Orient Line,loved them. Had to compound the port HP turbine whilst at sea while on the Orcades outwardbound for Oz, the expansion bend fitted perfect as did the bolts, I,d have never lived it down if it had,nt. Also sailed on three legged jobs [one of them fitted with a Bauer-Wach turbine fitted on the L.P exhaust cylinder], My favourite has to be the steam turbine it being the least likely to breakdown and the easiest to maintain and run. But I must say the three legged engines were with out a doubt the most fasinating ,and gave the greatest impression of raw power. On many 12 to 4 watch,s I could make them play almost any tune I chose to pass the watch away. I often wonder how many other engineers did the same thing on those long lonly watch.s. And yet I signed on trip after trip, and loved it. I,d appreciate any comments on the above.

Duncan112
15th March 2009, 15:28
Favourite Motor Engine would be the B&W 9K98FF, absolutely bombproof, with the Doxford J type coming a close second, forget anything that came from Winterthur though - more trouble than it was worth

john g
17th March 2009, 21:33
There is no doubt here SULZER and RR generators (though some may not agree with the later) thanks to cunard/brock.....pielsticks were a ******** nightmare designed originally for U-boats so I'm led to believe, and the best place for them but I am going back a few years.

raybnz
18th March 2009, 00:58
Mine during seatime would have to be Doxfords. Have sailed with other types but found these interesting.

Now in these days of semi retirement I am enjoying driving two triple expansion steam engines with a couple of coal fired scotch boilers feeding them. What a life

JohnBP
18th March 2009, 03:06
Sails with Sulzer,B&W and Doxford... Sulzer for sure however B&W close second, Doxfords were high maintenence...

HALLLINE
18th March 2009, 13:00
John g. I think the pielsticks were designed for French railway locomotives.
Worst job on them- grinding in the exhaust valves by hand. This was on the Carchester, managed by Ellermans on the Great Lakes /Manchester run. Worst and last ship I was ever on.
Dave

Hamish Mackintosh
18th March 2009, 16:05
Don't see any mention of Polar Atlas, seemed to be a reliable piece of iron on the colliers ?

david freeman
18th March 2009, 18:12
What was your favorite engines to work and why.... while at sea
Pamatra cross compound double reduction gear with ESD111 FW Boilers 900 psi 800F superheat. For a contraption and wonderment a six legged doxford-Watching the upper pistions and cooling hoses move in sync.

john g
22nd March 2009, 19:54
John g. I think the pielsticks were designed for French railway locomotives.
Worst job on them- grinding in the exhaust valves by hand. This was on the Carchester, managed by Ellermans on the Great Lakes /Manchester run. Worst and last ship I was ever on.
Dave

You may well be correct Dave I know the French were involved , I thought they developed the "concept" after WW2 I agree with the exhaust valve comments but they were an difficult arrangment to work on at the best of times.

Beartracks
22nd March 2009, 21:57
I've always had a preference for Large Low Speed Diesel Engines. When it comes to medium speed engines Pielsticks are on the bottom of my list. I taught a number of courses in Medium Speed Engines at the US Merchant Marine Academy and one of our demonstration engines was a PC2. It was as clean as a whistle and was constantly being taken down and re-assembled by the class groups and though I was wise enough not to expose my students to the "natural effervesence of my wild Celtic soul" pertinent to Pielstcks it was hard to shout their praises to the rafters.

Respectfully;
Hugh

randcmackenzie
22nd March 2009, 23:30
Denholm engineers always spoke of Grande Motori Trieste (FIAT) engines in very hushed tones.

Ian J. Huckin
23rd March 2009, 04:04
Never sailed wiith steam turbines, after 26 years at sea was motor all the way. Best engines? B&W MC varients, middle of the road Sulzer RND, MAN K series, Doxfords and worst would be anything that revved past about 136 rpm. Absolutely HATE Stork Werkspoor TM410s. Sailed Twin Funnel jobs and on my first trip on the ex Baron Wemyss had 315 engine break downs in just over eight months....no joke!!! (first trip C/E too) Some were petty, like rocker lub oil pipes falling off. some were large like dropping valves....alll problems around the heads.

I manage a Power Station on Kodiak Island Alaska and one of the diesels is an Enterprise DSMV 16-4. about 10,000 hp. I think (only think) I could get used to that engine.

Ian

surfaceblow
23rd March 2009, 04:23
I remember that PC 2 trainer very well. We had a instructor that kicked the piece of wood we had in the opening to drop the bearing bottom on. The wood dropped into the sump. It took better part of the day to fish the piece of wood out.

My favorite engine is the B & W's no reeds to clean in the scavenge space. The last ship I was on had 3 K84EF's on it two 9 cylinders and a 12 cylinder.

peter drake
2nd April 2009, 21:27
Rai is right Gotervergan for me but on the same ship we had some Godforsaken Spanish gennies can't remember the name but we never got all three working together which meant we had to shut down all non essential electrics when arriving or leaving port

Pete

wharferat
3rd April 2009, 22:38
Only been on Slow speed 2 stroke main engines, the best, Sulzer RT-Flex for me, followed by the RTA, the worst were the MAN KZ & KSZ engines, filthy dirty engines.
Med. speed generators, wartsila 4R32's, designed & supplied with all the specialist tools to make overhauls easy.

Ian J. Huckin
4th April 2009, 16:37
Peter Drake,

Would that be the Gotaverken where the exhaust valve was "pulled" open through a Doxford type transverse beam operated from cams profiles on the crank web? If so, the biggest slow speed engine damage I have seen was when I had to fly down to Keppel Yard to see to repairs on one.

The rocker fulcrum is suspended (bolted) up inside the 'A' frame between units and one of these had detached itself. All the rocker gear and rods for the two units that fulcrum operated was either wrapped up in the crankshaft or had been thrown out through the crankcase doors.

That being said, I never sailed on one and the engine trials we did after (we 'Goterwerken' again) the re-build went well and my impression was of a quiet "soft' sort of engine.

Ian

peter drake
4th April 2009, 22:53
Sounds nasty Ian glad it never happened to me
Pete

davetodd
4th April 2009, 23:13
The all-singing, all-dancing three legged steam engine.
They would take you there and back again and again.
A drop of oil here, a swab brush there and a drink for the eccentrics.
Beats all your B&W's, Sulzers, Doxfords and Peelingsticks.

Uisdean Beag
8th April 2009, 09:34
You may well be correct Dave I know the French were involved , I thought they developed the "concept" after WW2 I agree with the exhaust valve comments but they were an difficult arrangment to work on at the best of times.


John

Pielstick was a german engineer - he had designed and built several cast iron engines which could be rotated/run on a mixture of air and fossil fuel at various mixtures( injected ). The need for cast iron was that the engines ran with limited electric back up or main drive take off so the bearings were oil impregnated with little need for lub oil pumping. They were fitted to submarines ( originally) with the idea that they could be relatively "silent" and avoid ASDIC when in contact with enemy. In effect a kind of back up engine to main power for the sub when it was in danger.
The French captured doctor Pielstick and sent him to work on the side of the allies and after the war on their main science based industry. The result was SEMT Pielstick ( Societe Etudie Mechanique Thermaux). The rest as they say is history until out Asiatic cousins developed the basic SEMT designs. I liked them - even with all their faults and the extended work times.What really killed them was the lub consumption which is a bit ironic given the original principle of Pielstick himself.

One of the best engines ( simplest and most cost effective) I ever worked on was a Daihatsu copy of an Allen T47 running as a genny on the ACL Prosper/Project vessels. Really simple , robust and trustworthy - just do not ask it to do what it could not?

Regards
Uisdean

Steve Hodges
9th April 2009, 10:37
Sulzer RND (8RND90)

When I was apprenticed with BP I did six months in Hawthorn Leslies on Tyneside in 1971, and I saw one of these right through the works from aligning the bedplate, to engine trials , then dismantled to go out to the shipyard - if I remember rightly, it was for a Blue Star boat. It certainly impressed me, specially when it fired up first time and ran sweet as a nut. I understood that it was about the biggest engine that they could produce, although they had just done a Doxford "J" which I think was more powerful.
One of the peculiarities was that the bedplate was too long for Hawthorn's to machine, so it had to be made in two pieces and then bolted and dowelled together. Another was that although the engine was built to Sulzer metric drawings, most of the the smaller screw threads were imperial - must have been a headache for the ship's engineers in service.
I never actually got to sail with a Sulzer, so couldn't give an opinion on how they ran, but the Sulzer engineer based in Hawthorn's had to double check and sign off every critical alignment and assembly. He was very, very fussy - and very, very unpopular!

ccurtis1
11th April 2009, 11:24
John g. I think the pielsticks were designed for French railway locomotives.
Worst job on them- grinding in the exhaust valves by hand. This was on the Carchester, managed by Ellermans on the Great Lakes /Manchester run. Worst and last ship I was ever on.
Dave

I too sailed on the Carchester for a couple of years as Chief Engineer when she was managed by "V" Ships. Although not perceptable when entering the engine room, the main engine was off centre to port. The prop shaft ran down the starboard side of the main engine, the thrust being taken up foward of the engine, with gearing across from the Geislinger. Reason for this set up I believe was that the engine was not then subject to propeller thrust.
We had lots of problems . The Geislinger coupling failed. The engine was misaligned and needed "chockfasting" The endless problems with the exhaust valves, and the persistant cracking of the deck between the booby hatch coamings between no's 3 & 4 hatches. I too was very pleased to see the back of her
CCurtis1

BERRIET
12th April 2009, 09:34
hello everyone ,

Gustave Pielstick was workaing for MAN company before ww2 , but he disagree with nazis , so he was sent to jail in france during ww2 , and he keep on thinking of a medium speed engine for cargo ships ; after ww2 ended , he went back to germany , met his former collegues at MAN , but he was rejected ! so he came back in France , and wwhat was to be later the "Chantier de l'atlantique " proposed himto develop his medium speed engine , this was to be the PC 1 in late 40's.his friend was dr Geislinger ......

Bill Davies
12th April 2009, 09:43
Although many engineers cringe at the mention of the name Pielstick I am sure this was directed at the 'VType'. I have heard many Engineers speak highly of the PC92L.

Brgds

Bill

Macphail
12th April 2009, 23:05
I cannot knock the Pielstick, the first medium speed diesel to power a large warship , all be it by MAN, Pielstick design, the "Graf Spee".
We had Pielsticks on the "Avon Forest",
Two 9000 BHP 18 PC2V Pielstick Engines manufactured by Crossley Premier Engines Ltd., Manchester, England. 36 cylinders in total.
No problems, except for leaks on the fuel lines, we kept on top of it.

John.

stoker
13th April 2009, 21:34
I must be "a bottle half empty" person because I find it far easier to write about my worst engines.
My number 1 worst engines must be British Polar SF, Timing gear trains stripping ,Fuel booster pump drives, Valve wear that was measured by the reduction in tappet clearance, Injector nozzle tips breaking off resulting in the breaking up of inlet and outlet valves debris wrecking the turbos ( A and B bank were neatly connected) then the piston seized and sheered off at the gudgen pin which dug into the liner. At 750 RPM it doesn't take long! During the first year of the ships life we were on three engines or less for over six months,it was a four engined vessel.
A long way after the Polar comes the MAN KZ with loop scavenge and three part liner,and a scavenge space that was never designed with cleaning in mind, next Pielstick ( crankcase explosion sailing up the channel) then Doxford (a dirty night in the crankcase in the North sea).
In between Iv'e had SWD 40/54 which were in need of lots of TLC, B&W long stroke with hydraulically operated Exh valve, MaKs.....3 out of 10, a few MAN medium speed engines, and my number one the Sulzer ZA40 S, best avoid the ones built in Yougoslavia.
Needless to say the engines which ran on Diesel gave less trouble than those running on HFO, the British Polar being the exception.
The steamers were great but as someone said in a previous post,you did see a lot of the Boilers and I might add the soot blowers.There was also a lot of stress due to the need to continuously produce high quality distilled water
The bottom line in my humble opinion is that a good Engine Room crowd always made for a happy Engine Room.

Macphail
13th April 2009, 21:51
Stoker,

I agree with your last comment, 100%, we have all had the tough times, the main thing is to understand the beast, mainly its quirks and nurse it along as necessary, at the end of the day, we all miss the smell of the engine room.


John.

john g
14th April 2009, 19:15
Thanks guys for the info on the history of the Pielstick very interesting and yes I think most of the adverse comments relate to the V type. john g

Blackal
14th April 2009, 19:42
The Sulzer was truely the "Rolls Royce" of engines (Thumb)

But - that probably depended upon who built it (under license)

I will concede, that my impression of the B&W 6K74EF engine was - that it was a "hard-running" engine - likely to keep going forever.

Al

Peter Short
4th June 2009, 03:13
Gustav Pielstick (1890-1961) Amazing how the history of this man (and his engines) can have several differently incorrect versions. A bit worrying actually.

In Lyle Cummins recent (massive) book Diesels For the First Stealth Weapon: Submarine Power 1902-1945, the author gives some well researched facts about Pielstick, including interviewing one of the German engineers who went to France with Pielstick.

Pielstick joined the M.A.N. submarine department in 1911 as a 21 year old. Because of his exceptional design talent, by 1919 he was chief designer of the sub engine department, he held this post until 1934. From 1934-45 he was head of engine development at M.A.N. During all his time at the company he had a huge influence on all their submarine engines. During the 1920's he also designed the high-power double-acting diesels suitable for pocket battleships etc.

Pielstick was apparently an inspiring man to work under, friendly, full of good ideas and solutions to problems. He had trouble accepting the need to change some aspects of his designs, and so it was left to others to bring designs to completion. By several accounts he was highly egotisical and vain (by WW2 anyway).

During WW2 Pielstick was a Nazi party member or at least closely associated with the Party. Nevertheless he was not arrested by the allies after the war (as were men like Otto Meyer, head of MANs Augsburg division, a man who hated the Nazis and was under Gestapo supervision throughout the war).

In 1947, without notice, Pielstick and his family and furniture departed for Paris. He took with him six of his engineers and their familes. They went to join the newly founded S.E.M.T., Pielstick as technical director. Their departure left a huge hole in MANs technical capabilties, and great bitterness. Six of the seven men who went to France were ex Nazi Party members.

It is not known exactly why Pielstick left MAN. Possibly he thought that his long Nazi Party association would prevent him ever advancing at MAN. Or possibly he thought MAN would be prevented from building engines after WW2 (they weren't). Also, after the war foreign companies were wooing German engineers to come and work with them.

Satanic Mechanic
4th June 2009, 05:17
Gustav Pielstick (1890-1961) Amazing how the history of this man (and his engines) can have several differently incorrect versions. A bit worrying actually.

In Lyle Cummins recent (massive) book Diesels For the First Stealth Weapon: Submarine Power 1902-1945, the author gives some well researched facts about Pielstick, including interviewing one of the German engineers who went to France with Pielstick.

Pielstick joined the M.A.N. submarine department in 1911 as a 21 year old. Because of his exceptional design talent, by 1919 he was chief designer of the sub engine department, he held this post until 1934. From 1934-45 he was head of engine development at M.A.N. During all his time at the company he had a huge influence on all their submarine engines. During the 1920's he also designed the high-power double-acting diesels suitable for pocket battleships etc.

Pielstick was apparently an inspiring man to work under, friendly, full of good ideas and solutions to problems. He had trouble accepting the need to change some aspects of his designs, and so it was left to others to bring designs to completion. By several accounts he was highly egotisical and vain (by WW2 anyway).

During WW2 Pielstick was a Nazi party member or at least closely associated with the Party. Nevertheless he was not arrested by the allies after the war (as were men like Otto Meyer, head of MANs Augsburg division, a man who hated the Nazis and was under Gestapo supervision throughout the war).

In 1947, without notice, Pielstick and his family and furniture departed for Paris. He took with him six of his engineers and their familes. They went to join the newly founded S.E.M.T., Pielstick as technical director. Their departure left a huge hole in MANs technical capabilties, and great bitterness. Six of the seven men who went to France were ex Nazi Party members.

It is not known exactly why Pielstick left MAN. Possibly he thought that his long Nazi Party association would prevent him ever advancing at MAN. Or possibly he thought MAN would be prevented from building engines after WW2 (they weren't). Also, after the war foreign companies were wooing German engineers to come and work with them.

His engines were still pish though

cryan
5th June 2009, 01:08
Sailed on early 1970's MAN ksz 90's where fuel pumps had a tendency to jam and when the cam came back round would shear the hold down bolts resulting in a fuel pump coming off with much mess. Then sailed on year 2000 MAN V48/60 where fuel pump would jam and then wipe the profiles which meant a whole shaft out job. So in thirty years it is good to know that MAN had sorted out their crap hold down bolts, perhaps more budget on the pumps might have been more prudent.
Best engines though were Sulzer RTA by IHI Kure, Wartsilla vasa 32's, Rolls Royce Bergens and perhaps my current Lister Blackstones.
Worst? anything by MaK or Mercedes Benz sailed with several varietys of both in geny form, nightmares. also Bukh Lifeboat engines, have seen three seize due to water p/p failure or LO pick up failure.

Billieboy
5th June 2009, 09:55
At sea, Pametrada steam turbines every time! never ever had main engine problems. Ashore on repairs, the easiest "Old" engine, (pre hydraulic head and bearing bolts), was the Sulzer engine for piston and liner change. The Sulzer LA engine was easy to take to bits, with a head off and on in less than an hour, although, changing cylinder head studs, broken, or just cracked, could take between 10 minutes and 10 hours! The BIG (1000mm+) MAN engines were also very accommodating to the repair crew.

steamer659
8th June 2009, 02:56
The most trouble free Steam Turbine sets I sailed with were aboard the USNS Mercury and USNS Jupiter- 37000 SHP Cross Compound,Twin Torque Path Locked Train Double Reducion Geared- 875 psig / 925 deg F. at the inlet-
also the SL-7's, same type and series- only 60,000 SHP each side.

The Best Diesels were Sulzer RTA's.....

Worst Steam Turbine sets were the Westinghouse/ Falk 17500 SHP units installed on some of the C4 Mariners- the Reduction Gears leaked oil like sieves, requiring maintenance on a daily basis..

The absoulte worst diesels were a toss up between Enterprise and Colt-Pielsticks....

surfaceblow
8th June 2009, 03:49
When I was on a Mariner for a Night Job I was tasked to empty the buckets under a Kings Point Gasket back into the T/G sump. The bucket was filling up in about five minutes. On the second time that I poured the oil back into the sump I noticed that the sump was pressurized. I climbed up and removed the reduction gear breather and took it to the burner bench. At the burner bench I tapped on the breather and blew air through it to remove the rust. After reinstalling the breather I wiped the oil up on the casing and removed my foot prints from the reduction gear and took a walk around the engine room. On my return to the operating platform the Port and Chief Engineer wanted to know why I was not refilling the T/G. I told them I was tried of emptying the buckets back into the sump. I showed them the rust that I removed from the breather and that the T/G was no longer leaking oil. The Second T/G was getting prepped for the reduction gear cover to be lifted by a shore gang and a Manufacturer Rep. before the shore gang returned I removed the breather from the Second T/G which also had a blockage of rust in it. When the Tech Rep returned the Port Engineer canceled the lifting of the reduction gear cover and replacing the seals to just having the throttles and over speed trips serviced on both T/G's.

When the big shots left the First Assistant Engineer and Tech Rep wanted to know why I took off the breathers. I told them I had an old tractor and motorcycle that use to leak every time the gear box vent was plugged.

spongebob
8th June 2009, 11:57
Blackal, you are right about where a Sulzer was built.
I sailed on a Henry Robb built ship with a little 5 cylinder trunk piston Sulzer built under license in the 50's. Two years later I joined a Tai Koo Hong Kong built ship with an identical design 8 cylinder engine but built by Sulzer Switzerland and the quality of finish difference was very obvious and I am sure that all the manufacturing and machining tolerances must have been a lot closer with the Swiss machine.
From studs, threads and nuts etc through casting finishes, web machining and final paint finish etc it was easy to see why the Swiss make a fine watch.
While both engines were relatively new and trouble free the Swiss Engine gave the impression reinforcement.

Bob

GWB
8th June 2009, 12:42
Pametrada steam turbines every time! never had a main engine problems. As to the boilers no problems if you made sure feed water was good and furnace was well looked after. I have lifted a few turbine casings always found them to be in very good nick. Just a pity not as fuel efficient as Sulzer,Doxford , etc.
GWB

Beartracks
30th June 2009, 16:06
When I was on a Mariner for a Night Job I was tasked to empty the buckets under a Kings Point Gasket back into the T/G sump. The bucket was filling up in about five minutes. On the second time that I poured the oil back into the sump I noticed that the sump was pressurized. I climbed up and removed the reduction gear breather and took it to the burner bench. At the burner bench I tapped on the breather and blew air through it to remove the rust. After reinstalling the breather I wiped the oil up on the casing and removed my foot prints from the reduction gear and took a walk around the engine room. On my return to the operating platform the Port and Chief Engineer wanted to know why I was not refilling the T/G. I told them I was tried of emptying the buckets back into the sump. I showed them the rust that I removed from the breather and that the T/G was no longer leaking oil. The Second T/G was getting prepped for the reduction gear cover to be lifted by a shore gang and a Manufacturer Rep. before the shore gang returned I removed the breather from the Second T/G which also had a blockage of rust in it. When the Tech Rep returned the Port Engineer canceled the lifting of the reduction gear cover and replacing the seals to just having the throttles and over speed trips serviced on both T/G's.
When the big shots left the First Assistant Engineer and Tech Rep wanted to know why I took off the breathers. I told them I had an old tractor and motorcycle that use to leak every time the gear box vent was plugged.


I'd like to use your story in my classes as I certify QMEDs (qualified members of the engine department) at a Vocational School here in Maine. I remember the acronym KISS (keep it simple stupid) and your tale emphasises this to a great extent. As you are probably aware of all standards of training at sea are being made uniform under IMO and since the United States has become a signatory of the International Law of the Sea Treaty; the US Coast Guard has become the agency that insures MARPOL standards are kept in tack in all training evolutions. Your tales indicates that experience still counts be it in a ship's engine room or on a motor cycle. In this teaching environment I hazard to say that my "sea stories" are just as if not more enlightening than my technical monologs. If you grant me your permission to use the above tale I give you my word that I will bestow all credit to you and make no attempt to plagiarize your expertise.

Best Regards
Hugh Curran aka Beartracks

surfaceblow
30th June 2009, 22:43
I'd like to use your story in my classes as I certify QMEDs (qualified members of the engine department) at a Vocational School here in Maine. I remember the acronym KISS (keep it simple stupid) and your tale emphasises this to a great extent. As you are probably aware of all standards of training at sea are being made uniform under IMO and since the United States has become a signatory of the International Law of the Sea Treaty; the US Coast Guard has become the agency that insures MARPOL standards are kept in tack in all training evolutions. Your tales indicates that experience still counts be it in a ship's engine room or on a motor cycle. In this teaching environment I hazard to say that my "sea stories" are just as if not more enlightening than my technical monologs. If you grant me your permission to use the above tale I give you my word that I will bestow all credit to you and make no attempt to plagiarize your expertise.

Best Regards
Hugh Curran aka Beartracks

Hugh

I have no problem you using the post. You may want to add that the Diesel Engines also have breathers on them. I found these are usually in sad shape since the breathers are high in the fiddly with no easy means to reach and clean the breathers.

Regards,
Joe

J MCKIBBEN
19th July 2009, 21:34
MY favorite Engines were the Steam turbines I have also worked on moter ships as well I found the them very hard work when it came to tighten up 0r slacken off the large nuts at the top of the conecying rods having to swing a 28lbs hammer yM) Served my apprentiship on steam turbines while they were being built in Vickers Armstrongs Ltd Barrow, sailed on them an engineer on the Orient Line,loved them. Had to compound the port HP turbine whilst at sea while on the Orcades outwardbound for Oz, the expansion bend fitted perfect as did the bolts, I,d have never lived it down if it had,nt. Also sailed on three legged jobs [one of them fitted with a Bauer-Wach turbine fitted on the L.P exhaust cylinder], My favourite has to be the steam turbine it being the least likely to breakdown and the easiest to maintain and run. But I must say the three legged engines were with out a doubt the most fasinating ,and gave the greatest impression of raw power. On many 12 to 4 watch,s I could make them play almost any tune I chose to pass the watch away. I often wonder how many other engineers did the same thing on those long lonly watch.s. And yet I signed on trip after trip, and loved it. I,d appreciate any comments on the above.

Abbeywood.
23rd August 2009, 17:40
Sulzer RND, Sulzer RD, in that order,and by a considerable distance.
Steam Turbines/ Turbo Electric, Steam Recip.
B&W GF, Doxford.
Nice to see that Pielstick and Paxmans are as revered as ever!!!!!!
With the past history and reputations of those engines it beggars belief that shipowners would still install such equipment on their ships.
I expect someone on SN will have a good word to say about them although on second thoughts possibly not!!
You may wonder why Doxfords is some way down my list of preferred modes of propulsion,i had two spells on LB types,both elderly and especially so in one case (1939).Both vessels were twin fives and of course on HFO.
Having previously been on B&W four stroke engines those Doxfords were a bit of a revelation masses of impressive moving parts an compared to a Buchi blower very quiet.The volume of work in maintaining those engines was considerable,all units would be overhauled on the NZ/Aus coast plus inspection and adjustments on bottom end and side rod bearings,in short a big work up.For all the work we still had a great time on the NZ coast plus the invaluable experience i gained in the crank case!!!
My first experience of Sulzers was on a coastal run from Swansea to Avonmouth.From the moment that engine fired up i was greatly impressed by the sound and by the whir of the gears,it jist sounded precision and i became hooked on them.I sailed on Sulzers by five different licencees and found them to be first class in all respects,thats not to say they were completely trouble free but nothing too significant.I came ashore in 1968 and had the job of maintaining them and had the job of maintaining them for 16 years.As i have mentiond ,the best engine by far (this should provoke a few comments)!!!!
Marshynzs

Definitely Sulzers, (both RD and RND versions) Bit of a bind re-fitting the piston rod nut, the leaf-spring left much to be desired, but at least it was tightened hydraulicly, while on the ones I worked on, we had a 'windy spanner' for the Cyl' H'd nuts. Such luxuries, and better than the 'man-draulic' nuts of an LBD Doxford.

ray bloomfield
23rd August 2009, 18:56
Kelvin K4, starting handle on petrol, get the revs up an throw the lever across to run on diesel, all of 88hp and our only propulsion unit (plus we had parrafin lamps as well) then the owners fitted a 24v dynamo, sheer luxury(==D)

Govanbill
23rd August 2009, 22:10
Sulzer by far , much better than the clumsy Doxford

MARINEJOCKY
23rd August 2009, 22:42
Ray, how about the P6 or the Gardner 8LW

ray bloomfield
23rd August 2009, 23:40
Now you are talking pure class, cant beat the sound of a sweet running Gardener

ray bloomfield
23rd August 2009, 23:43
Had a Kelvin R6 for 4 1/2 yrs with a screaming turbo, never wore ear defenders and now I live with that sound every waking moment. its a b*****d!!

MARINEJOCKY
24th August 2009, 01:36
I learnt to be darned good at brazing thanks to those pipes etc on a P6. An old fisherman out of Tarbert used to tell me about those Kelvins with the petrol start.

I once restored a single cylinder Lister from the early 1930's. It stood about 4 foot tall and had a cylinder head of about 20" x 20" x 5". Started on high compression and then opened a second chamber to reduce the compression ratio when under load. It drove via a 4" belt a huge 3 stage dive air compressor.

Richard Jones
24th August 2009, 06:43
My favorite engines were the ones on the aeroplane taking me on leave.

Well said old man, you speak for all us I suspect, even the Doxford idolisers. (favourite engine? ha) As in best ship;
Any ship looks it's best from the rear window of the agent's car/taxi.
The last ship was always the best. etc etc etc..... (any more?)

Billieboy
24th August 2009, 06:43
Now you are talking pure class, cant beat the sound of a sweet running Gardener

I couldn't agree with you more Ray, as a boy on the fairground we had a Scammel Genny truck for emergency power, it was around 1930 vintage, never failed to start, (by hand, three men), cloud of smoke on the first fire and then purring along for ever!(K)

ray bloomfield
24th August 2009, 11:23
I couldn't agree with you more Ray, as a boy on the fairground we had a Scammel Genny truck for emergency power, it was around 1930 vintage, never failed to start, (by hand, three men), cloud of smoke on the first fire and then purring along for ever!(K)

I know this is getting away from the thread but in my younger days I used to do abit for Bert Stocks fairground travelling around East Anglia and my nephew Jamie Bloomfield today has his own 60's type rides, cyclone twist, swinging jyms etc. Thier gen sets do have the luxury of electric start but I well remember the rope on the handle.
My oh my the fun we had in the old days, wish I had the energy and the oportunity to do it all again.
Dont try to reverse when you have the ballast truck, the ride trailer
then a 30ft living wagon all behind you (==D)

ray bloomfield
24th August 2009, 11:44
I learnt to be darned good at brazing thanks to those pipes etc on a P6. An old fisherman out of Tarbert used to tell me about those Kelvins with the petrol start.

I once restored a single cylinder Lister from the early 1930's. It stood about 4 foot tall and had a cylinder head of about 20" x 20" x 5". Started on high compression and then opened a second chamber to reduce the compression ratio when under load. It drove via a 4" belt a huge 3 stage dive air compressor.

Ours was old a motor barge 'Silver' and was so worn out that to start it we went as follows:-
1, remove sparking plugs and put in oven to get hot
2, wrap in cloth and run aft to e/r
3, burn fingers while wrapping string around thread because the thread in the firing chamber was nearly non existant
4, squirt oil into plug hole
5, turn over engine to get oil around worn piston rings
6, fill basic carburettor to full mark with 4 star leaded petrol
7, 6 squirts of petrol into each firing chamber
8, insert sparking plugs burning fingers yet again
9, swing the handle and pray she fires
10, if successful (9) get ready to duck for when a plug was ejected at speed from chamber
11, if not successful go to magneto and screw the damm connection in and try again
10, again
12, build up speed on petrol (otherwise she could backfire and start backwards if you changed to diesel too quickly)
13, If OK sit back and relax while regaining strengh and breath in the fumes
14, Exit e/r and let her warm up before engaging gear otherwise it would stall so start again at (7) ommiting (8)


Eventualy the engine was rebuilt with a sprayed crankshaft. It blew apart 6 mths later to be replaced with a Foden truck engine,but thats another saga.

Abbeywood.
28th August 2009, 11:59
Paxmans - there's a name I'd forgotten. They were the gene's on the ship I did my first three trips on. More prone to water and oil leaks than anything I ever worked on.

You obviously had new ones or did'nt work much on them or you would never forget them

Abbeywood.
28th August 2009, 12:51
Following on to my preceding reply:-
Have not seen any mention of the Werkspoor engines, i.e. those built before the amalgamation with Stork.
I sailed in the Rippingham Grange whose Main propulsion was two 8 cylinder Werkspoors, I forget the type, but the bore was 580mm and output approx' 6500 hp.
Scavenge valves like giant air-compressor valves,(2 per cylinder) back of the engine like the proverbial 'Black hole of Calcutta' Scavenge fires de riguer.
Cross head bolts had a tendency to work loose, fortunately not all at once, so a fourteen pound hammer was an essential item.
Rack and pinion manoeuvering gear, camshaft and fuel pumps on the 'tops'
Fuel pumps had a habit of 'hanging up' when slow running. Heavy bar, 6 ft,
On Stand-by's Jnr Eng used said bar to knock the pump shroud back into life.
Oh what fun we had. !
Anybody had any experience with Gennies driven by WH Allen engines.
Personally found them to be very good and reliable.

chadburn
28th August 2009, 13:44
North Eastern Marine built a series of 6cy Werkspoor oil engines of 1,400 hp for vessel's like the "Segovia" which at that time had open crankcases (1923), an amazing looking engine built on VTE lines. This diesel engine along with other diesel engine's (like Doxfords) were quickly brought into service because steam turbines had a period in the 1920's of blade failure's making them unreliable and indeed a lot of Shipowners stuck with the VTE for years afterwards. VTE's are my own engine of choice, ST's provide a great looking Engineroom but give a false impression of the workload of the Engineer when viewed by "other's" who thought/think that an Engineer's job is easy when they look down into them without knowing all the other work that goes on to keep them running. Best Diesel? in the small range it has to be the quality built Gardner and I have to agree with abbeywood the W.H. allen engines were very reliable genny's. Large diesel's, sorry fellow North Easterner's not the (bobbing up and down like this) Doxford, all engines have "parts" but the Doxford had just to many "parts" compared to the usual engine layout so for me it was either a Sulzer or the engine I spent most of my time on B&W but as has been previously said a lot depended on who built them, I did do just the one trip on the "French System" Gas Turbine engined "Rembrandt" just out of interest as at that time Gas Turbine propulsion was seen as the power unit of the future for trains, boats, and Rover cars, it was to say the least an interesting engineroom using opposed piston gasifiers as the power source, however it never "caught on" but at least I was ready if it had done, well that was the thinking behind my trip.

Abbeywood.
25th September 2009, 05:25
As fitted in Dart Containerline ships, the main engines were the largest Sulzers built to that time, with two Brown-Boveri 'blowers, - again specially built for those engines.
The Dart Atlantic, suffering from weld cracks in the 'A' frames, had her gear train removed and the bosses cut out to be fully re-aligned by ' the man from Winterthur'. On completion, a full engine test was carried, both alongside and at sea and during the latter, I was able to witness a manoeuvre I never thought possible, thus.
As Sulzer operators will be aware, the engine direction is controlled through the telegraph and Lube Oil system, and while on passage from Wilton-Feyenoord to Southampton the Sulzer 'rep' carried out a test manoeuvre where he 'swung' the telegraph from 'Full Ahead' to 'Full Astern' and with a blast of starting air, the engine changed direction within 20 seconds,- and no relief valves blowing. This is seemingly possible at full speed though we were only at manoeuvring speed at the time, The two Chiefs were'nt overly enthusiastic about carrying out the test, on the assumption of possible damage.
Quite amazing and it certainly increased my respect for the Sulzer engine.

Billieboy
25th September 2009, 07:07
Abbeywood, I've never seen that on a diesel engine, but a mate of mine, who served his time at Vickers, once told me that he had been at Pametrada, when they were testing a 15K shp set; the test engineer opened the astern steam full, before shutting off the ahead steam. He later said that if anything was going to break, then it was better on the test bed tan at sea!

Ron Stringer
25th September 2009, 08:45
I have mentioned elsewhere on the site that the 'Regent Pembroke' was an early example of 'bridge control' of a steam turbine ship. She did not have the engine control console in an airconditioned room, it was out in the open engine room. There the control electronics were subjected to the full benefit of high temperature and high humidity. Because of a rudder design fault, she also suffered from very high vibration levels (far worse than any motor ship that I ever sailed on).

That combination was pretty overwhelming for the state of electronics available at the tiime and the number of faults was excessively high, with blackouts several times a day on the maiden voyage.

But the most frightening one was the change, at full passage speed, from full ahead to full astern without anyone touching a single control. If we thought that the vibration was terrible when going ahead, we got a rude awakening (often in the middle of the night) when she went full astern. All Hell broke loose (together with a lot of fixtures and fittings all over the ship) until the engineer on watch could get her back onto manual control. There was only one watch engineer and an Indian ag wallah on each watch, so these antics must have taken years off their lives. Never seemed to do the engine any harm though!

fahrwud
29th September 2009, 02:51
Always wanted to be posted on a recip steamer but most had disappeared by my time.
I liked the Sulzer;something satisfying about that beat. (Benhiant, 6-cyl Sulzer, 1977) Could have watched a Doxford all day long, though.
Got sent looking for a steam leak on Hemitrochus in 76 with the rag on the end of the long pole. (Was it because I was the 1st trip fireman?)
Then there is the burning question: is it more of a challenge to cross oceans using a steam-driven fan or by a series of controlled explosions?
Dave

spongebob
2nd October 2009, 06:55
I can’t think through this subject without going to the very bottom of the pile to mention the ubiquitous
Seagull outboard motor, a marine engine without a doubt.
For so many years this little pearl did some mammoth tasks on small craft as the main propulsion or as a standby get you home machine.
I had a 6 hp long shaft Barge model complete with clutch and reduction box fitted to the oversize propeller. This replaced an inboard Stuart Turner Water cooled engine fitted to my 23 foot bilge keeler and the substitution was well worth it from a reliability and serviceability point of view.
The two stroke oil to petrol ratio was a very high, 1:10 or ¾ pint of oil to the petrol gallon which lent a bit of smoke to the air which was hard to stay clear of when steaming at 4 knots but it paid a handsome dividend one day when dead calm weather on the Auckland harbour made us motor sail home from Waiheke Island. At the time huge swarms of flying ants were migrating over the water from island to island and these little sods have a nasty bite. They tended to swarm around every boat on the crowed harbour except ours, the blue haze from the seagull kept them clear while everyone around us were waving their arms and slapping their bodies to keep the beasts at bay.
Many a small boat man has regretted the demise of this British manufacturer

Bob

billyboy
2nd October 2009, 07:46
Bob, them little Stuart Turners were a god send mate. I'll bet there still a few plodding away today.
Long time since I had to listen to the roar of a seagull outboard though. As for the exhaust fumes.....Cough....cough

Billieboy
2nd October 2009, 08:10
Bob, them little Stuart Turners were a god send mate. I'll bet there still a few plodding away today.
Long time since I had to listen to the roar of a seagull outboard though. As for the exhaust fumes.....Cough....cough

Not quite a Tuc-Tuc, but the smell's the same!

GWB
7th October 2009, 14:22
Mr Parsons Steam turbines every time, only ever saw the inside of one during survey every few years but at sea never saw one opened up.

GWB

chadburn
7th October 2009, 14:33
GWB, there is no doubt the old "steam fans" made for a good clean engineroom, with Parsons and Richardson Westgarths being about the best, however, they did give the unfortunate impression that the Engineer's job was "a piece of cake" without "visitor's" knowing all the other work that went on just to keep them running.

R58484956
7th October 2009, 16:07
For a nice quiet watch, pametrada and foster wheeler "D" type, will do nicely.

ccurtis1
7th October 2009, 17:14
Any body sailed with the Deutz air cooled auxiliary engines where it was impossible to start without inserting what looked like a candy cigarette. The engines were so reliable just a little quirky with the starting arrangement. We tried all ways to find out how these insertions worked, even putting them on an anvil and wellying with a 2 lb hammer, without any results. The blessed engines would not start without the insertions.

Billieboy
7th October 2009, 18:24
Any body sailed with the Deutz air cooled auxiliary engines where it was impossible to start without inserting what looked like a candy cigarette. The engines were so reliable just a little quirky with the starting arrangement. We tried all ways to find out how these insertions worked, even putting them on an anvil and wellying with a 2 lb hammer, without any results. The blessed engines would not start without the insertions.

Was this the engine with the "Neuvlaktnocabstelgeradt", for adjusting fuel valves?(Thumb)

Abbeywood.
1st November 2009, 06:28
When I was apprenticed with BP I did six months in Hawthorn Leslies on Tyneside in 1971, and I saw one of these right through the works from aligning the bedplate, to engine trials , then dismantled to go out to the shipyard - if I remember rightly, it was for a Blue Star boat. It certainly impressed me, specially when it fired up first time and ran sweet as a nut. I understood that it was about the biggest engine that they could produce, although they had just done a Doxford "J" which I think was more powerful.
One of the peculiarities was that the bedplate was too long for Hawthorn's to machine, so it had to be made in two pieces and then bolted and dowelled together. Another was that although the engine was built to Sulzer metric drawings, most of the the smaller screw threads were imperial - must have been a headache for the ship's engineers in service.
I never actually got to sail with a Sulzer, so couldn't give an opinion on how they ran, but the Sulzer engineer based in Hawthorn's had to double check and sign off every critical alignment and assembly. He was very, very fussy - and very, very unpopular!

I think you'll find that no Sulzers were built with a bed-plate longer than five units, anything larger were made up of combinations of either 3,4, or 5 units.
e.g. Six Cyl; 2 x 3 unit, Seven cyl: 3 + 4 units, Eight cyl: 2 x 4 units. etc, with the sections joined as described.
Engines up to 6 cyl tended to have the gear trains at the end of the engine while multiples above 6 cyl. had the gearing in the middle.
Likewise the crankshafts were made under similar conditions.
Think this correct but I've been wrong before. !

As for the final paragraph: That's why Sulzers were such good engines.
If you can't stand the heat get out of the crankcase.

Satanic Mechanic
1st November 2009, 08:39
For a nice quiet watch, pametrada and foster wheeler "D" type, will do nicely.

Combustion Engineering V2M8's and a nice Mitsubishi turbine set - If heaven is steam powered..............(Thumb)

Billieboy
1st November 2009, 08:57
I think you'll find that no Sulzers were built with a bed-plate longer than five units, anything larger were made up of combinations of either 3,4, or 5 units.
e.g. Six Cyl; 2 x 3 unit, Seven cyl: 3 + 4 units, Eight cyl: 2 x 4 units. etc, with the sections joined as described.
Engines up to 6 cyl tended to have the gear trains at the end of the engine while multiples above 6 cyl. had the gearing in the middle.
Likewise the crankshafts were made under similar conditions.
Think this correct but I've been wrong before. !

As for the final paragraph: That's why Sulzers were such good engines.
If you can't stand the heat get out of the crankcase.

Quite right, on the uneven ones the shortest crank section, was on the Fwd. end of the engine. Worked on some 10RLA100 engines, bloody Huge 2.5MW per cylinder, which is a little more than the average!

Abbeywood.
2nd November 2009, 14:57
Quite right, on the uneven ones the shortest crank section, was on the Fwd. end of the engine. Worked on some 10RLA100 engines, bloody Huge 2.5MW per cylinder, which is a little more than the average!

I forgot to mention which way round the sections were assembled. Just testing to see if anybody noticed. Ha ha.
The engine you describe seems to have been a real beast of a machine, and I thought a 10RND90 was big.
Whatever were your engines fitted into. ?
Am I right in assuming that the output/cyl. was approx' 3333hp, or is my maths all to hell. Haven't seen a decent Sulzer for nigh on 25 years.

Billieboy
2nd November 2009, 16:00
I forgot to mention which way round the sections were assembled. Just testing to see if anybody noticed. Ha ha.
The engine you describe seems to have been a real beast of a machine, and I thought a 10RND90 was big.
Whatever were your engines fitted into. ?
Am I right in assuming that the output/cyl. was approx' 3333hp, or is my maths all to hell. Haven't seen a decent Sulzer for nigh on 25 years.

The engines were fitted on "Al Funtas" and "Kazimah" of KOTC the two biggest product carriers in the World at 250kdwt each. Engines were rated at 25MW.

ccurtis1
2nd November 2009, 17:03
Favourite engines.
RB211 on the 747 going home.

Burntisland Ship Yard
9th November 2009, 18:10
Best plant I sailed with was on the Spanish Class VLCC's - Kwasaki Plant - boilers and main engines - ran like a sewing machine....

hamishb
9th November 2009, 23:37
I think you'll find that no Sulzers were built with a bed-plate longer than five units, anything larger were made up of combinations of either 3,4, or 5 units.
e.g. Six Cyl; 2 x 3 unit, Seven cyl: 3 + 4 units, Eight cyl: 2 x 4 units. etc, with the sections joined as described.
Engines up to 6 cyl tended to have the gear trains at the end of the engine while multiples above 6 cyl. had the gearing in the middle.
Likewise the crankshafts were made under similar conditions.
Think this correct but I've been wrong before. !

As for the final paragraph: That's why Sulzers were such good engines.
If you can't stand the heat get out of the crankcase.

If I remember correctly the length of the major componnents in a Sulzer Engine were dictated by the longest pieces that could be moved on the Swiss railways and that was why they were designed that way. Rail was the easiest way to move large parts out of Wintrethur.
Hamish.

BOB.WHITTAKER
11th November 2009, 21:09
NOT my favourite engines ,the HEDEMORA V18,we had 5 on the Uncle John a D.P. semi submersible D.S.V. Throwing rods,dropping valves,timing gear drive failures, water pump drive shaft ,lub oil consumption all this from day one. There was provision to install a sixth engine/alternator/switchgear etc. but the general consensus was "We have enough problems with five ". I believe she was re-engined using the ubiquitous "CAT", I have no knowledge of the outcome ,perhaps someone could comment .

Blackal
13th November 2009, 17:06
Hedemoras not my favourite either. Very compact (weren't they built for submarines?) and the only thing going for them is that you can whip the heads off and pull the pistons single-handed.

Al

Billieboy
13th November 2009, 18:42
Hedemoras not my favourite either. Very compact (weren't they built for submarines?) and the only thing going for them is that you can whip the heads off and pull the pistons single-handed.

Al

It has to be a one man job, nobody else can get in to help!

Blackal
13th November 2009, 19:23
It has to be a one man job, nobody else can get in to help!

Sometimes the heads come off by themselves :eek:

finetune
21st November 2009, 19:36
Sulzer TD36 as in Stephenson Clarkes "Portslade", quiet, reliable,piss easy to work on. TD was trunk design ,had individual scavenge pumps for each cylinder.
Regards
George

jim garnett
22nd November 2009, 00:51
I spent 22 months as a junior and fourth on a twin Nordberg (yankee Sulzer ) and can not fault them.
The special tools for repair and dismantling were all supplied and were first class.
My experience with Doxfords was mixed.The first I sailed on was excellent,it had been well maintained and ran on refined diesel.The next experience was entirely different.It had been poorly maintained and
had been convertd to heavy oil.About 99% of the cylinder lines were blocked and impossible to clear
so consequently spent most of the trip(7 months)changing piston rings and heads.I have always wondered why the non return valve in the lubrication line was situated at the inector and not at the cylinder.Ihope they eventually saw the error of their ways but Idoubt it.

Jim Garnett

Succour
22nd November 2009, 04:50
Steam Turbines were fine. Boilers were a pain in the **** especially soot blowers, every junior engineers nightmare.
Parsons Factory in Heaton is no more and for those who worked at the place in the sixties the lone piper who used to play alongside the railway track beside the transport club has finally stopped playing. At lunchtime we would go to the Paddock pie shop, then round the corner to put on a bet and just go listen to the piper as we ate our meat pies. Treasured memories.
Succour.

BERRIET
22nd November 2009, 17:28
hi gents ,

i've read throught the article about pielstick , so now in my mind it's classified as "nazi" ....till recent times , all stories i knew about him where that he was a man that rejected nazism , and that he was prisoned in france ,obviously , all stories i've heard in france are pure fake ..

regards

japottinger
24th November 2009, 23:00
Favourite from point of view that nothing went wrong, for spectacle and pure rythmn a big triple expansion, big I mean when the LP cyl. was 110 ins dia!

Billieboy
25th November 2009, 05:47
Favourite from point of view that nothing went wrong, for spectacle and pure rythmn a big triple expansion, big I mean when the LP cyl. was 110 ins dia!

That would be without an exhaust turbine. I agree, but three, running together at about 90 revs, is about the most impressive sight ever, can no longer be seen in Cardiff though, as I and a few of my contemporaries were responsible for the removal of the Steam impounding pumps in 1958-9. After which electric High volume vertical Archimedes screw pumps by Sulzer Bros. were installed. The LP cylinders were 120 inches, had to make a few piston rings for them and skim up the junk ring for one of them, (parts had just been fitted when the word came that they were to be scrapped).

japottinger
29th November 2009, 16:26
Favourite from point of view that nothing went wrong, for spectacle and pure rythmn a big triple expansion, big I mean when the LP cyl. was 110 ins dia!

Missed first bit, should be turbines as first choice. Reading again the posts thank G--d I never sailed on a diesel ship!

DWD
8th December 2009, 02:29
Has to be Winterthur built Sulzers. Even the wooden boxes the spares came in were craftsman built.

Abbeywood.
13th December 2009, 07:17
Just recently watched a Discovery Channel documentary on the building of the worlds largest container ship, (as we were told umpteen times in the commentary), the 'Eugen Maersk', at the Odense Shipyard.
She has her Engine Room situated about two thirds of the way from forward.
and therefore has intermediate shafting of 120 metres terminating in a six-bladed propeller weighing 162 tons,(quote).
All of this was driven by what appeared to be a twelve cylinder engine of a type not immediately recognised, though a quick flash of the makers name plate showed it to have been a Doosan-Sulzer, a manufacturer I have not heard of before.
Can anyone offer more info' on the engine. ?

Abbeywood.
13th December 2009, 07:53
Further to the preceding item:
A bit more effort on my part reveals that the Doosan part of the name is of Korean origin and the company is tied in with Samsung Heavy Industries, and Daewoo Heavy Industries;
The engine referred to would appear to be 12RTA96C type with a maximum continuous output of 93360 bhp.
'Google-in' Doosan-Sulzer and it should come up with the 'Emma Maersk' which is probably a sister ship of the 'Eugen Maersk'

Billieboy
14th December 2009, 11:21
A 12RTA96C will have a straight twelve engine with timing gear between units six and seven. Pistons will be 960mm diameter. Time to change a head joint, (cylinder gasket), will be about thirty minutes. Awful lot of tons going up and down!

Peter B
14th December 2009, 18:20
Further to the preceding item:
A bit more effort on my part reveals that the Doosan part of the name is of Korean origin and the company is tied in with Samsung Heavy Industries, and Daewoo Heavy Industries;
The engine referred to would appear to be 12RTA96C type with a maximum continuous output of 93360 bhp.
'Google-in' Doosan-Sulzer and it should come up with the 'Emma Maersk' which is probably a sister ship of the 'Eugen Maersk'
The engine is a Wärtsila-Sulzer 14RT-Flex 96C. 14-cylinder, 960 mm bore,
2500 mm stroke, 80080 kW (108800 bhp) at 102 rpm. Timing gear situated between cylinders 7 and 8.
The engine is aided by two electric shaft motors, each developing 9 MW (12230 bhp), thus making the maximum output to the propeller 133260 bhp.
The weight of the propeller is 137 t (I should know; I installed a couple of them).
And yes; the Eugen Maersk is a sister of the Emma Maersk. In total there are eight of this class.

Billieboy
15th December 2009, 07:32
A fourteen cylinder Engine? what a Monster, definitely an engine room to stay out of even with the latest hydraulic gimmicks!

Was that a Lips propeller Peter B?

Abbeywood.
15th December 2009, 09:42
The engine is a Wärtsila-Sulzer 14RT-Flex 96C. 14-cylinder, 960 mm bore,
2500 mm stroke, 80080 kW (108800 bhp) at 102 rpm. Timing gear situated between cylinders 7 and 8.
The engine is aided by two electric shaft motors, each developing 9 MW (12230 bhp), thus making the maximum output to the propeller 133260 bhp.
The weight of the propeller is 137 t (I should know; I installed a couple of them).
And yes; the Eugen Maersk is a sister of the Emma Maersk. In total there are eight of this class.

Many thanks for the update. By any stretch of the imagination its a bloody big lump of machinery, and I read elsewhere that the ship only carries 14 crew.

Billieboy
15th December 2009, 10:35
Many thanks for the update. By any stretch of the imagination its a bloody big lump of machinery, and I read elsewhere that the ship only carries 14 crew.

The minimum crew needed to change a head on a MAN 1100 monster, was four, but that was in '92 and it was an engine builder's sea trial crew in port, I wouldn't like to try it in anger, in a pacific or Atlantic swell after something had fallen off!

Peter B
15th December 2009, 14:20
Was that a Lips propeller Peter B?
No, not a Lips. I don't remember the name of the manufacturer, but it's a German works.
It was actually the propeller that determined the size of these vessels. The yard wanted to come up with the largest possible single-screwed 25+ knots containership. This propeller was the largest it was possible to get, cast in one piece. Having determined this, the drive train (diesel engine + shaft motors) were chosen, and then they went on to hull design.
The propeller is six-bladed, 9,6 m in diameter.

Peter B
15th December 2009, 14:42
Many thanks for the update. By any stretch of the imagination its a bloody big lump of machinery
There is a picture of a 12-cyliner version here: http://www.kohkun.go.jp/knowledge/engine/12rt-flex96c.jpg
I read elsewhere that the ship only carries 14 crew.
The official minimum crew is 13, but often there will be more. Probably 2-4 cadets and often some service crew. There is accomodation for 30+ people.

eriskay
15th December 2009, 15:58
Didn't like any of them, never wanted to be an engineer, wanted to be a joiner, just went through the apprenticeship motions to appease and defer to old man who was determined I should not go to sea unless I had a trade to fall back on. Okay, there was an element of the fear-factor involved too - he was bigger than me. Have to say, however, that there was something exciting with a nice big slow-revolution steam reciprocating engine, clean, silent, ah ...... !

Incidentally, subsequent evidence over the years would indicate that as a joiner I would have made a good plumber ..... oh, well ......... : - (

Billieboy
15th December 2009, 19:39
Didn't like any of them, never wanted to be an engineer, wanted to be a joiner, just went through the apprenticeship motions to appease and defer to old man who was determined I should not go to sea unless I had a trade to fall back on. Okay, there was an element of the fear-factor involved too - he was bigger than me. Have to say, however, that there was something exciting with a nice big slow-revolution steam reciprocating engine, clean, silent, ah ...... !

Incidentally, subsequent evidence over the years would indicate that as a joiner I would have made a good plumber ..... oh, well ......... : - (

I know the feeling exactly eriskay, my old man did the same for me. It dis pay off in the end though, and I'm with you on a 90 rev triple, one is good, but three was amazing!(Thumb)

Billieboy
15th December 2009, 19:42
Thanks Peter B, there is a lot to be said for a six bladed prop. Probably the best place to start when designing a ship, lots of NAs would probably disagree though!

workforfun
26th February 2010, 21:49
For me the best engines to work of - probably because I worked on so many, were the Doxford engines.

The most unpleasant was the H&W DA two stroke on the Port Hobart twin 10 cyliders if my memory serves. The main piston connecting rod was huge (veeery long) and there was a trick to getting it out to do maintenance.

The worst engine in my opinion, is the Fairbanks Morse opposed piston, two crankshaft jobbies built in the US. Orignally designed for diesel electric trains (Locomotives) and fitted in submarines, tugs, great lakes freighters in a four engine configuration, with gearbox to a single prop shaft. Hard to work on, very very noisy in operation.

Engine I enjoyed working on most was a triple expansion steam engine (open crankcase) with Baur Werk exhaust turbine - that ship had literally everything reciprocating powered including main boiler fans etc., bilge pump, ballast pump, feed pumps, steam deck winches. etc. Great job (mv Bilkurrah - ANL) but my total time on that was about eight weeks only (Cloud) (Cloud) .

Now retired and ashore I get my jollies working on my farm tractor or JD450 crawler loader (K) (K)

workforfun

bluewaterman
19th April 2010, 17:13
If I remember correctly the length of the major componnents in a Sulzer Engine were dictated by the longest pieces that could be moved on the Swiss railways and that was why they were designed that way. Rail was the easiest way to move large parts out of Wintrethur.
Hamish.

This may well be correct. When I worked for Sulzers (in the UK and Swizerland) I learnt that the stroke (and hence crank throw and so naturally crankcase width) of Sulzer slow speed engines had been deliberately kept short to allow the bedplates to be exported via the rail tunnels existing at the time. This held true up to and including (if I recall correctly) the RD series. Speaking of which, remember timing those rotary exhaust valves? Possibly not the best engine (except for spares sales probably!!).
However the RND series was, to mind, a great engine to work on, it's development and that of subsequent longer stroke engines (RTA and RLA etc) was allowed by the opening of a newer tunnel with a wider loading gauge.

uisdean mor
20th April 2010, 23:14
BWM
exhaust valves not too bad as long as good comms with turning gear and a decent temperature to working under. Worst job for me was always the scavenge valve plate cleaning/disassembly/reassembly and sealing. Usually helped a lot by black gang cleaning at the same time. Oh joy of joys.
Obviously closely followed by use of a top end spanner on the poop.
Rgds
Uisdean Mor

Abbeywood.
3rd May 2010, 14:38
This may well be correct. When I worked for Sulzers (in the UK and Swizerland) I learnt that the stroke (and hence crank throw and so naturally crankcase width) of Sulzer slow speed engines had been deliberately kept short to allow the bedplates to be exported via the rail tunnels existing at the time. This held true up to and including (if I recall correctly) the RD series. Speaking of which, remember timing those rotary exhaust valves? Possibly not the best engine (except for spares sales probably!!).
However the RND series was, to mind, a great engine to work on, it's development and that of subsequent longer stroke engines (RTA and RLA etc) was allowed by the opening of a newer tunnel with a wider loading gauge.

I'll go along with your comments 'bluewaterman', but your mention of the abortions that were the rotary exhaust valves on the RD engines deserves further comment.
Those valves put the 'mockers' on a good engine, and I have lost count of the number of times that oil seals needed replacing. usually at the most inconvenient times. A wooden 'lying board' was essential in the replacement as the valve casing was still 'roasting', even after having stopped for several hours. Access was cramped and the fitting of the new gas seals required the patience of Job, the elastic bands supplied being totally inadequate, leading to securement of the seal segments with twine
The beer at the end of the job was something to look forwrd to.

Klaatu83
3rd May 2010, 14:59
"What was your favorite engines to work and why.... while at sea"

Work on at sea?

Steam Turbines

Never worked on a steam turbine at sea. Typically the USCG/ABS required turbines be torn down for inspection each five years. Often nothing was done except perhaps adjust diaphragms for wear.

Greg Hayden

I concur! After 30 years on numerous ships powered by steam turbines and both medium-speed and low-speed diesels, I would have to say that there is no comparison in regards to reliability. Most of the steam turbine plants built during WW-II outlasted the hulls in which they were installed. As long as the boiler tubes and condensers were properly maintained those engines would last forever. About the only assembly that ever seemed to cause any problems was the forced draft blower, and that only occasionally.

Indeed, the longevity of those steam turbine plants was probably one of the principal reasons why so many Victories, C-3s, C-4s and T-2s were still operating long after they should have been retired. As a result there were some tragic instances, such as the Poet and the Marine Electric, when the engines literally did outlast the engines!

allanc
4th July 2010, 10:46
Can't resist a comment about the Seagull outboard. Having brought up to revere them by my motor engineer uncle who sold them, when I acquired my little yacht I bought an elderly Seagull to power it. It was of indeterminate horsepower, allegedly 5hp, but more probably 3 1/2 .

Initially, it ran on 10/1 fuel/oil mixture, and could take up to 100 pulls on the cord to get it started.

Then, it was suggested that it would be OK on 20/1.

From then on it was first pull staring every time.

Fast forward about fifteen years, by which time I had replaced the Seagull with an ever reliable Johnson. Meanwhile the old Seagull languished under the house for about ten years, still with ten year old fuel in the tank, possibly by then of about 5/1 fuel/oil ratio. One day, I had an urge to see if the Seagull would still go. In the meantime, I discovered that it had spent some months submerged in Swan Bay, near Port Phillip Heads.

So, I attached the Seagull to my dinghy still connected to the jetty by its painter, and gave a pull on the cord. Incredibly, the thing fired!! Thank goodness it didn't continue, or we would have hit the jetty with some force.

I rowed out into open water and tried again, and off she went, first pull. That's hard to believe, and I was certainly amazed. If a latter day Seagull existed , I would get one.

Wouldn't you?

Cheers, Allan.

Mike S
5th July 2010, 02:30
Mirrlees K 6 cyl as fitted to the tug Weela.

1800 bhp de-rated to 1580 at 450 rpm.

It is still running in the tug some where on the East Coast of Oz.

Built in 1967, commissioned in 1968 and 42 years old. They should up her to 1800 bhp and build another boat around her.

It only ever stopped once in service while here in Freo and that was after some one did not put the cir-clip holding one of the cam followers back properly. She just kept te-pocker te-pockering away day and night.

Poetry..........but then I am biased!

Ian J. Huckin
14th August 2010, 13:55
This is a sort of trick reply. Although Stork Werkspoor TM410s were deffinately not my favorite engine, they sure gave me a lot of pleasure when you got them working right.

I had the pleasure of sailing foreign flag SSM (serious) and the attached picture is of the ER on the old Baron Wemyss. I sailed her as the Tanjong Pasir and as the Kilchrenan. After a few trips on her sisters and then this one I think I had it figured out and with the help of the super, Bob Durbin, he let us loose with some mods.

Hopefully, the picture says it all, but we had many many uninterupted hours of routine sailing with minimal oil consumption and problems limited to the occasional fuel valve failing.

Again, not my favorite but fond memories.(POP)

slick
16th August 2010, 06:50
All,
Assistance please, when in Japan, all small craft seemed to be propelled by a "Hot Bulb Engine", what is it, I think they were single cylinder?

Yours aye,

slick

spongebob
16th August 2010, 08:06
Slick,I think that the expression covers small deisel engines that were fitted with glow plugs to aid starting from cold.
The glow plug was like a spark plug but with a small heating element on the end instead of 'points' and by pushing a button prior to cranking the engine over the plugs heated up to a glow that allowed instant ignition.
My little 3 cylinder Kubota tractor had this feature which was worth its weight in gold on a cold morning

Bob

Billieboy
16th August 2010, 08:39
Hot bulb or glow plug engines can have as many as eight cylinders. The size of the cylinder is also variable, I knew of one twin which had 12 inch pistons. There was a blow lamp fixed to each cylinder for heating up the bulbs, this was lit in the usual way after filling with paraffin. Took about a quarter of an hour to get the monster started.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
16th August 2010, 15:38
A hot bulb engine, in the marine context, is a semi-diesel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_bulb_engine

Invented by Herbert Akroyd Stuart in the 1880's but in the marine context we tend to think of them as Scandinavian, or occasionaly German or Dutch.

I remember one which lurked in the bowels of a Baltic trading ketch; having first started the parafin blowlamp you played that on the bulb for five minutes; you then inserted a length of broom handle into the flywheel and swung, taking care to dodge the flying broomstick as she fired.

ART6
16th September 2010, 17:53
North Eastern Marine triple expansion steam engine with an open crankcase that invited the uninitiated to fall in. Marvelous old engine in the Esso Preston. The sheave blocks were lubricated with black oil and tealeaves, and the old girl would keep going when more modern engines would fall over.(Thumb)

Satanic Mechanic
16th September 2010, 18:43
A hot bulb engine, in the marine context, is a semi-diesel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_bulb_engine

Invented by Herbert Akroyd Stuart in the 1880's but in the marine context we tend to think of them as Scandinavian, or occasionaly German or Dutch.

I remember one which lurked in the bowels of a Baltic trading ketch; having first started the parafin blowlamp you played that on the bulb for five minutes; you then inserted a length of broom handle into the flywheel and swung, taking care to dodge the flying broomstick as she fired.

Just on that subject - did you ever come across the starting system for emergency diesels that used 35mm camera film - nobody believes me when i tell them :(

Billieboy
16th September 2010, 19:42
Just on that subject - did you ever come across the starting system for emergency diesels that used 35mm camera film - nobody believes me when i tell them :(

Heard of them but never met one, the other good one was a cartridge start aero engine, I can't remember if it was a Pratt and Whitney, or one of the other non Rolls Royce engines, {which were fitted with hand inertia starters, or electric(trolley acc) starters}.

chadburn
16th September 2010, 20:39
RR Merlins were first fitted with cartridge starter's as were Napier Deltic's.

eldersuk
16th September 2010, 23:14
ED's Tarkwa had an emergency gennie which was started with 35mm film. Paxman Ricardo I think. (Long time since I heard that name) Trouble was, that by the time you got it started your eyes were streaming and the gennie house was full of smoke.

Derek

Duncan112
16th September 2010, 23:30
P&OCL's Baby Bays had this system, tried it once, but the nitrocellulose based film stock was aged and unstable - burst into flames when we opened the tin!!

The really ornamental system was the hydraulic accumulator on BP's River Boats that you pumped up to some ferocious pressure then it allegedly span the engine over fast enough to make it start - didn't work on as cold engine, didn't work on a hot engine.

roboted
17th September 2010, 08:29
Just on that subject - did you ever come across the starting system for emergency diesels that used 35mm camera film - nobody believes me when i tell them :(


Yep...(EEK)

roboted
17th September 2010, 08:31
ED's Tarkwa had an emergency gennie which was started with 35mm film. Paxman Ricardo I think. (Long time since I heard that name) Trouble was, that by the time you got it started your eyes were streaming and the gennie house was full of smoke.
Derek

Remember that one as well...(Ouch)

ART6
17th September 2010, 10:01
I recall, in desperation in a blackout when the emergency diesel wouldn't kick in, that when winding the inertia starter till our arms fell out didn't work we tried to get it going by firing a bottle of Freon gas from the fridge system into one cylinder to turn it over. That didn't work either:sweat:

Billieboy
17th September 2010, 14:06
RR Merlins were first fitted with cartridge starter's as were Napier Deltic's.

Napier, that's the one I'd forgotten.

As for cartridge start Merlins, I think I remember Wellington bombers with this type of starter, the Armourer had to load the magazine, I think it was three cartridges per engine, one per start.

surfaceblow
17th September 2010, 15:35
I recall, in desperation in a blackout when the emergency diesel wouldn't kick in, that when winding the inertia starter till our arms fell out didn't work we tried to get it going by firing a bottle of Freon gas from the fridge system into one cylinder to turn it over. That didn't work either:sweat:

I used a CO2 Fire extinguisher to start an emergency diesel when the air receiver was empty. Just a short blast was needed. Removed the horn and screwed the hose into the air line to the diesel start system.

Joe

Billieboy
17th September 2010, 15:42
I used a CO2 Fire extinguisher to start an emergency diesel when the air receiver was empty. Just a short blast was needed. Removed the horn and screwed the hose into the air line to the diesel start system.

Joe

At least CO2 is a lot safer, than pumping liquid O2 into a reefer suction!

ART6
17th September 2010, 15:50
I used a CO2 Fire extinguisher to start an emergency diesel when the air receiver was empty. Just a short blast was needed. Removed the horn and screwed the hose into the air line to the diesel start system.

Joe

Using a fire suppressant to fire an engine has just got to be imagination at its best. Fair dues to you(Thumb)

roboted
17th September 2010, 19:34
I used a CO2 Fire extinguisher to start an emergency diesel when the air receiver was empty. Just a short blast was needed. Removed the horn and screwed the hose into the air line to the diesel start system.

Joe


Niiiiice....(Thumb)

Abbeywood.
20th September 2010, 05:16
I recall, in desperation in a blackout when the emergency diesel wouldn't kick in, that when winding the inertia starter till our arms fell out didn't work we tried to get it going by firing a bottle of Freon gas from the fridge system into one cylinder to turn it over. That didn't work either:sweat:

I would first inquire as to what the emergency diesel was driving. ? If it was for the emergency Air-comp' then the following becomes irrelevant.
However I was on one ship that after an extended breakdown stoppage, the main Air-receivers were well down with insufficient 'puff' to turn over the our beloved Paxmans, (he said 'tongue in cheek').
The air receivers were isolated and the charging line was pressurised using the emergency Air-comp, (Hand starter) until the starting pressure was achieved and 'Bob's your uncle', off we jolly well go.
I have seen a lighted rag held to the air intake be successful but it is not recommended, and you still need something to turn the engine over.
Nor is 'Easy-start' recommended either. It might work a couple of times but the engine becomes 'addicted' to it, and simply won't start without its 'fix'

jbz2079
20th September 2010, 21:14
Over the years I've hear all sorts of explanations as to why diesels "get addicted" to easystart.
Does anyone have an explanation?
I have often used it to help purge the air from an engine after fuel filter change or other work on the fuel system, Saves the starter motor serious grief when it fires but won't pick up.
I think that some engines might be a bit tired and so lacking compression needed for a cold start and using easystart makes up for the deficiency, and becomes the normal because it take too long without it.
Also some engines were fitted with pilot start by the manufaturers- Cummins, perkins and Rolls-Royce Eagles, just a few that I know of, that used Ether injected into the inlet manifold for low tempreature cold stats.

Magic Fingers
21st September 2010, 09:01
Engines "addicted" to easy start are usually too worn to start normally and as the wear increases they need more and more easy start to fire. One bang and the increased turning speed usually gives enough compression to fire normally.
Don't use it on Perkins TV8s though. It helps them break the top rings which they are good at without any extra help.
Old fashioned hand start diesels used on small gennys and compressors I've poured a thimble full of lube oil into the inlet which sometimes gives enough compression to fire once and away you go.
Dick.

billyboy
21st September 2010, 09:20
2nd on the sand martin used to get back aboard early and put lube oil in the cylinders. when the OM rang down for the first engine movement it used to scare the crap out of me as the relief valves lifted. You still out there George?

uisdean mor
21st September 2010, 22:33
Spot on magic fingers. The reason for non starts which then benefit from easy start are almost universally down to lack of compresion. Two stroke marine engines always benefitted from liner lubrication prior to start for the very same reasons. Memories of dubious fuel quality and some early cost cutting exercises always manged to overlook the damage that the "cost cutting" had actually inflicted.
Rgds
Uisdean mor

benkort
12th November 2010, 15:50
The best engine I sail with was the Stork HotLo.
6 cylinder 120 revs a minute. Never ever any touble.

JOCKENG
14th November 2010, 09:18
Sailed on the SS Woomara (ASP of Melbourne) as 5th Eng. with brand new 2nd's motor ticket in 1972. Had a 4 legged steam up and down. Also Bauer Wach exhaust turbine. After full away you manually swung it into the gearing on the shaft!

Served my apprentiship on steam turbines while they were being built in Vickers Armstrongs Ltd Barrow, sailed on them an engineer on the Orient Line,loved them. Had to compound the port HP turbine whilst at sea while on the Orcades outwardbound for Oz, the expansion bend fitted perfect as did the bolts, I,d have never lived it down if it had,nt. Also sailed on three legged jobs [one of them fitted with a Bauer-Wach turbine fitted on the L.P exhaust cylinder], My favourite has to be the steam turbine it being the least likely to breakdown and the easiest to maintain and run. But I must say the three legged engines were with out a doubt the most fasinating ,and gave the greatest impression of raw power. On many 12 to 4 watch,s I could make them play almost any tune I chose to pass the watch away. I often wonder how many other engineers did the same thing on those long lonly watch.s. And yet I signed on trip after trip, and loved it. I,d appreciate any comments on the above.

JOCKENG
14th November 2010, 09:40
Well said.
Can't belive how fickle they could be. One more thought though. We are generally talking about British/US/West Euro engineers/enginnering here. Any comments about these engines when run by "cheaper" crews?


His engines were still pish though

davetodd
14th November 2010, 16:24
The all-singing, all-dancing three legged steam engine.
They would take you there and back again and again.
A drop of oil here, a swab brush there and a drink for the eccentrics.
Beats all your B&W's, Sulzers, Doxfords and Peelingsticks.
Having read all the forgoing! all I can say is that I stick by my earlier posting.
All hail Geordie Chief
Regards
Dave

chadburn
14th November 2010, 16:35
Having read all the forgoing! all I can say is that I stick by my earlier posting.
All hail Geordie Chief
Regards
Dave

Abso "spiffing" lutley Dave, now where is that tin of black oil and graphite(Thumb)

Billieboy
14th November 2010, 18:52
On top of the LP piston Chief!

davetodd
14th November 2010, 18:56
Abso "spiffing" lutley Dave, now where is that tin of black oil and graphite(Thumb)
Last seen in the salinometer pot with a bit of pipe!!
Dave

Billieboy
14th November 2010, 19:04
Blow to 5/32 ? and a hand full of soda in the Hotwell.

Mike S
15th November 2010, 01:20
When I was a very little tacker, I used to visit my old Grandfather Smith. He had three sons, one a double chief, one a mechanical engineer (Dad) and one an electrical engineer. I used to sit next to the fire and listen to the conversation.
One time Uncle Ronnie was home on leave from Headlams. He was guarantee chief by then.
He started to tell me a story one day about a noise in the LP cylinder of a triple expansion engine. I listen with wrapped attention.
He described how they stripped the LP down and found a small problem that they fixed and boxed the job up.
Once they had turned her over on the gear they fed her some steam and there was a loud clank from the LP.
Muttering dark and satanic oaths as this was seriously interrupting their drinking time they lifted the cylinder head.........
There was the slush lamp sitting on the top of the piston.


It was still lit....................(Smoke)

Still love their stories.

spongebob
15th November 2010, 04:35
Mike, reminds me of the time we overhauled the reciprocating compound steam engines driving the generators on a Loch class Frigate during a survey.

She went to sea on trials and all was well until there was a beam swell that set her rolling and one generator engine developed a rapid faint, tap tap tap knock that sounded like some poor soul was locked in there.
The Generator was shut down and the sump access door removed to find a pinch bar inside that had moved with the roll to gently foul the bottom end as it spun.
Thank goodness it wasn't mine but the fitter's.

Bob

BarnacleGrim
15th November 2010, 10:01
I asked an engineer on a Sulzer powered ship if he agreed with all the praise for Sulzers here. He said "that's what all the Pielstick haters say" :rolleyes:

john g
18th November 2010, 13:47
I asked an engineer on a Sulzer powered ship if he agreed with all the praise for Sulzers here. He said "that's what all the Pielstick haters say" :rolleyes:

I've been out of it for many years but that statement is so correct !

Steve Oatey
21st November 2010, 01:51
I asked an engineer on a Sulzer powered ship if he agreed with all the praise for Sulzers here. He said "that's what all the Pielstick haters say" :rolleyes:

I hadn't thought of it that way, but that is probably spot-on!!

Sarky Cut
21st November 2010, 11:26
To get back to starting recalcient engines, Petters driving Reefer boxes. On arriving in the states on a cold morning going from ships power to diesel direct drive a can of WD40 worked wonders aimed at the intake whilst the aged battery struggled to get the machine turning.[=D]

Ian J. Huckin
22nd November 2010, 18:21
To get back to starting recalcient engines, Petters driving Reefer boxes. On arriving in the states on a cold morning going from ships power to diesel direct drive a can of WD40 worked wonders aimed at the intake whilst the aged battery struggled to get the machine turning.[=D]

I used to do some R&D on those reefers down in Hamble. The unit was Petters but the diesel was some old four cylinder BMC unit.

david freeman
26th November 2010, 09:45
What was your favorite engines to work and why.... while at sea

Not to work on but to see and smell and listen to: A Beliss and Morcom Compound twin cylinder steam auxilay (Up and downer-total enclosed0,. powering the de gausing generataor on a 28/32Kdwt tanker

Billieboy
26th November 2010, 10:45
Not to work on but to see and smell and listen to: A Beliss and Morcom Compound twin cylinder steam auxilay (Up and downer-total enclosed0,. powering the de gausing generataor on a 28/32Kdwt tanker

Very difficult to hear in the engine room, a lot easier to feel on the crankcase, usually just a huuummm, unless something was going wrong and then a tick could be felt and sometimes heard with a screwdriver.

chuckgregg
30th November 2010, 21:18
From the replies I'm amazed not see turbo electric the ones I refer to were in T2's wartime built and still going strong well after 20 years of service with the minimum of problems ,I'd served my time building marine engines steam and diesel and my 1st ship was Stanvac Bangkok a T2 on my maiden voyage from Barein to Newzealand the propeller dropped off just north of Thursday Island near Australia the only real problem I can remember after 2 trips and almost 20 months .Next I'd put most steam turbines and diesel Sulzer and MAN loop scavenge engines , for generators EMD's and Caterpiller but never mention Cummins to me to small to light to many revs. Doxfords never sailed on one but after some of the hairy tales I heard about them I made a point of not , buts everyman to his own.

ART6
1st December 2010, 10:38
From the replies I'm amazed not see turbo electric the ones I refer to were in T2's wartime built and still going strong well after 20 years of service with the minimum of problems ,I'd served my time building marine engines steam and diesel and my 1st ship was Stanvac Bangkok a T2 on my maiden voyage from Barein to Newzealand the propeller dropped off just north of Thursday Island near Australia the only real problem I can remember after 2 trips and almost 20 months .Next I'd put most steam turbines and diesel Sulzer and MAN loop scavenge engines , for generators AMD's and Caterpiller but never mention Cummins to me to small to light to many revs. Doxfords never sailed on one but after some of the hairy tales I heard about them I made a point of not , buts everyman to his own.

Interesting Chuck. I served my time in Barclay Curle's North British engine works in Glasgow before joining Stanvac. Coldest bloody place in the world in Winter, the banks of the Clyde. Where did you serve your time?

chadburn
1st December 2010, 15:06
Fitting a Ship's Prop on the riverside has to be one of the coldest job's in the old style shipyard's, that along with chocking winches when it has been snowing.

ART6
1st December 2010, 15:38
Fitting a Ship's Prop on the riverside has to be one of the coldest job's in the old style shipyard's, that along with chocking winches when it has been snowing.

And fitting valve chests in a part built hull on the slipway in the middle of winter with a riveting crew working twenty feet away. The only warm thing was the thrower's brazier, and that was on the outside! I was never happier to finish my time and get away to a nice warm engine room.

chuckgregg
1st December 2010, 16:37
Interesting Chuck. I served my time in Barclay Curle's North British engine works in Glasgow before joining Stanvac. Coldest bloody place in the world in Winter, the banks of the Clyde. Where did you serve your time?

Hi Art served my time at the Wallsend Slipway Marine Engineering
not shipbuilding, engines Howden Boiler Burner Systems once apon a time Scotch Boilers and a small drydock.Once dia drydock in Barclay Curles because we Yarrow 3 drum boilers which I think were made at B/C

Billieboy
1st December 2010, 18:39
First dry dock in the UK was at Wallsend Slipway, it was owned by Swans I think, 1963/4? ship was Llanishen.

chuckgregg
1st December 2010, 21:13
Hi Billieboy the Llanishen I seem to remember quite well , I left the Slipway Dec 1957 and never went back. Although they were some of my happiest memories. The yard eventually became part of W. Press who built and repaired production platforms and other related oil field stuff.Schiedam I drydocked there in Verome's on a ship built there the Van der Stel a SAFMarine fast cargo ship which had at the time the 2nd largest heavy lift derrick designed by Verome but it was not as good as the Stulkan ? derrick as it could only work one hatch ,250 tons I think and to an engineer it looked like something out of a meccano set and according to the Mates it took far to long to rig. I liked the engine MAN loop & and under piston scavenge at slow revs .
Hope you enjoyed your time in Wallsend.
rgds Chuck

Billieboy
2nd December 2010, 05:46
Had a great time in Wallsend, thanks Chuck. Learned to drink Amber and Exhibition there. Most enjoyable time.

Walter_Snook
21st January 2011, 08:35
Sulzer RND's ! except for the dirty bunkers in 1994, we stopped at sea every other day in Indian Ocean, clogged exhaust manifold to turbo..

david m leadbetter
25th January 2011, 01:42
Wow This is interesting reading every body seems to have a spot for good old Doxfords. Having several voyages with them I came to the same conclusion. There was always some engineering experience to be had dropping the odd bottom end,bottom end,bottom end or pulling a piston or two. I'm. never sure wether the chief liked a good engine or just filled in time doing odd jobs!!

I 'did' several other engines but obviously they never made that kind of impression on me.
When I came to Australia I worked for C.G.E.W. (Commonwealth Government Engine Works ) who had a licence to build said Doxfords. Also they had a licence to build the various forms of Sulzer Two Stroke. My seagoing experience really came in handy there, but, I was most impressed by the Sulzer machine. We built several whilst I was there, unfortunatly the factory shut down and the expertise was lost. Having flown here and there to make various repairs on both I think we were lucky to get experience on both.
Definatly my best engines (on the water or not).

There' s a thread about 'Your best/worst job' I'm putting in one or two that I think are worth a recall. I think we all 'have been there done that' too.

David L
R670811

david m leadbetter
25th January 2011, 03:21
Fitting a Ship's Prop on the riverside has to be one of the coldest job's in the old style shipyard's, that along with chocking winches when it has been snowing.

I sometimes wonder wether one finished one's time despite the employment or inspite of it.
Summertime found me practising floating safeties on various scotch boilers, whilst waiting for the surveyer, and of course who else would stand on a rickety platform shooting a prop half way up a slipway in the depth of winter.

David L.
R670811

Fa's that?
25th January 2011, 11:25
Apart from the odd scavenge fire it was for me Horten Sulzer 5 RND 76. Hated the heat and humidity on steam ships.
Malky

Tony Breach
1st February 2011, 13:16
Hogarths replaced 8 Ruston AOs with Stork Werkspoors in 4 ships
Smiths replaced 4 Ruston AOs with Pielsticks in 2 ships
RFA replaced at least 4 Ruston AOs with Pielsticks in 2 ships
Hamburg-Sud replaced 24 Rolls Royce auxiliaries in 6 ships but kept the 12 Pielsticks in those ships.
Fiat SS engines were replaced by Sulzer RTAs in 2 of the Muggioni "Punta" class reefers.
United Fruit's diesel electric "La" class of 1923/5 (early days) replaced 4 Fulagars with Fiat Q504s in 1 ship after 2 years & later laid the ship up. She was finally re-engined with 5 GEs in 1942 & she survived for another 26 years. A second of these was converted to turbo electric while the third was engined with a triple expansion from new.

There must have been more re-engined disaster ships out there. I am very interested in this subject although not an engineer & would like to hear more about total failures as I sailed in some.

Satanic Mechanic
1st February 2011, 13:43
Smiths replaced 4 Ruston AOs with Pielsticks in 2 ships
RFA replaced at least 4 Ruston AOs with Pielsticks in 2 ships

Ok - I think we all know that Ruston AOs were the worst engines ever built in Christendom - But how bad does an engine have to be to make a bloody Pielstick look like a good replacement(EEK)

david freeman
2nd February 2011, 10:04
What was your favorite engines to work and why.... while at sea

While all U buffs look and listen to deep sea cathedral engines and whinning blowers, Give a thought to a single cylinder or twin cylinder Lister 4 stoke on a narrow boat steam on the Grand Union Canal? Does this engine make music or not?

Doxford76J6
2nd February 2011, 14:15
The ONLY fans of Pielstick engines are the Service Engineers; best engine ever for overtime!

In line Crossley / Colt Pielsticks were actually reliable.

john g
3rd February 2011, 14:08
The ONLY fans of Pielstick engines are the Service Engineers; best engine ever for overtime!

In line Crossley / Colt Pielsticks were actually reliable.

And so say all of us........do they still make "Pielsick" engines I wonder.

roboted
3rd February 2011, 15:01
Re Pielsticks.......Going fishing with plenty of O/T allowed me to ......well... go fishing...

jim garnett
19th February 2011, 03:48
DOXFORDS, DOXFORDS,DOXFORDS.....
fOR EASE OF ACCESS AND RELIABILITY...

(40 YEARS EXPERIENCE AS A MARINE ENGINEER AND IN SHIP REPAID.

Did you ever have to change a lower piston head in mid atlantic after a stud and nut broke in mid atlantic.Not easy!! jim garnett

Matt Pash
28th February 2011, 00:09
B&W KG90F was the most lovely engine I have ever sailed with and worked on. Unlike Sulzer. B&W work on the KISS principle- Keep It Simple. Most of the 'improvements' Sulzer have made over the years B&W already had, so that now it is hard to distinguish between the 2.(Uniflow scavenge, oil cooled pistons etc..) Still cannot understand why Sulzer persist with reed valves- scavenge inspections and cleaning on B&Ws are a breeze in comparison. Sulzer still retain their ridiculously complicated fuel pump which hasn't changed in 40 years and still can cause trouble.I don't mean to bag Sulzer, they have done well by me over the years, but are no match to B&W.
As for generators- Bergens have to be my favourite. Well made, reliable and so easy to work on.

Least favourite; Got to be Pielstick main engines and Ruston/Paxman generators, followed closely by Deutz which we used to call 'Hitlers Revenge'.

PS-No engine is good to work on at sea. Anyone who has tied to fit a 2 tonne cylinder cover whilst rolling around can attest to that.

bob francis
19th March 2011, 02:59
i must admit sulzer without a doubt and polar 2 stroke

lazyjohn
20th March 2011, 10:48
I sailed with B&W engine on my 1st UMS ship (MV Causeway).

Loverleee.

Mind you the ship was still brand new.

david m leadbetter
23rd March 2011, 02:51
i must admit sulzer without a doubt and polar 2 stroke

Bob,

As a First Tripper I sailed out of Fleetwood on the M.V. Stream Fisher, the main engine to drive that craft was a Polar Atlas. I recall I had a main job on watch of keeping those edge type lub oil filters on the go. Must say they kept me on the go instead...... However by the time I was ready to go deep sea I had a good idea what it was all about. Talking of Sulzer's ..I never actally got to serve watch on any but working at CGEW (Gov.t. Engine Works) I really got to the inside of quite a few. Talking with the ship.s engineers whilst out somewhere I got the story that they were pretty good. After building a number in the factory I felt they were pretty good too.

Ian J. Huckin
23rd March 2011, 15:17
[QUOTE=Tony Breach;488902]Hogarths replaced 8 Ruston AOs with Stork Werkspoors in 4 ships UNQUOTE

Hogarth, Lyle etc, while under SSM changed out Ruston AOs on I think thirteen ships...including the Temples (single engined?) All replacements were Stork TM410 'V' 12. They had a particularly bad write up from all fronts but I sailed several of those re-engined "twin funnel jobs" and got to quite like the Storks.

After beaucoo $$$ spent on restoring valve gear geometry we actually managed to keep one running without any breakdowns or slow downs at all for nearly 18 hrs.

On my first two trip with them (C/E) I logged 364 individual breakdowns in a combined thirteen months. One was a Stbd Engine, Unit 1RB dropped exhaust valve...took out every single unit in the RB due to crap getting into exhaust and scavenge trunkings and 'visiting" the other units. Half the valve head made it clean through the RB turbocharger. Was just changing am 4/8 watch when "KABOOM" by the time I hit the 'E' stop and got to the CR window to look down there was water pouring out of the T/C intake filter...I just went back to my coffee....

Oh yes...and my favorite engine? Mitsui B+W...and believe me I have sailed them all including LB Doxfords, Gotaverken, Sulzer, MAN and medium speeds...

John Farrell
23rd March 2011, 23:42
Sulzer RND90 (The Rolls)
+
Crossley Pielstick 9 PC2L. (built like the the proverbial)

John Farrell
24th March 2011, 19:27
Although I liked the inline Pielstick Crossley favoured rotary air distributors which can lead to many problems when worn.

mpr41410
2nd July 2012, 23:04
Always good to resurrect a moribund thread, my favourite engine was the little H&W 6 cyl opposed piston on the British Corporal. I was 2/e on her, target speed was 10 knots! We had to go up the congo in stages with the incoming tide to make headway, Ango-Ango the place.
Worst were doxfords, the only pleasant memories I had were the out of phase cams for taking draw cards. The rest of the engines were absolute junk.
Back to the Br. Corporal; the engine was the only good thing on there boilers were addled through tube leaks, much of the SW pipe work had more thistlebond than metal and the fire pump had to be run continuously to provide cooling water.
The boilers were that close to the ships side that it was almost impossible to get to the check valves which were on extended spindles. I had just joined the ship in singapore at the end of drydock and after loading we ran into some heavy weather as we cleared the Coins and the boiler room flooded. The gland on the port boiler check valve had been leaking for so long that a hole had corroded through the ships side. The repair involved an ag wallah holding a spanner on an inch whitworth bolt through a 4" flange while we went outside in the life boat. The hole was about a foot above the water line and I had to lean out to put my flange on and then the nut and tighten it all up, blurry scary.
She had the lowest bhp in my disch bk, 4500. I loved Harland built ships, my first c/es job was on one and their version of the B&W poppet valve job was a sheer delight to watch the other engineers working on B\). BTW I sailed on three doxfords, two return trips on two of them and I loathed them.

jannie4321
18th July 2012, 03:02
i must say in all my 45yrs at sea, from fiver to ch/ eng , i have been on every engine you can think of, from weerkspoor , stork , man, mak , sulzer s to fujiyamers , and the worst was paxmans [ for noise , one could hear them way down the wharf] pielsticks [ i was a number of years on cruise ships ] for unreliability, too many moving parts, underslung c/shaft.regards to all anyway, john dressing.

TOM ALEXANDER
18th July 2012, 06:19
From the "deck" point of view, the three stage Parsons steam turbine was the sweetest. After 2 years the engine(s) [ High, Intermediate and low pressure] themselves never missed one revolution as far as I can recall. Port? Yarrows boiler did give us some aggravation when the refractory lining fell in and the 2/E clothed in wet sackcloth had to rebuild it after it had cooled off some. The only other downside was the mess created when blowing tubes in the middle of the night and then scrub ship first thing in the a.m. so the passengers could sit down without getting their shorts dirty. Sailed with Doxfords also but from a statistical basis were not quite as reliable.

KernowJim
26th July 2012, 16:38
Sulzer every time.

Least favourite?

Pielstick - by a country mile.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Sulzers hardly ever caused a problem, really reliable.
Pielsticks were a nightmare.

ART6
26th July 2012, 17:56
I have never understood why anyone in his right mind would want to go to sea in anything powered with the over-sized equivalent of a Singer sewing machine without the reliability. I served my time in a yard that built Sulzers and sailed on one. I didn't like it. Nasty, noisy, oily things. Only so many engine starts until the starting air ran out. What a way of running a ship is that when the bridge are looking for something like twenty starts and stops a minute with a few emergency asterns included?

Steam turbines were the boys. Run for one hundred years without irritating or inconveniencing anyone. Endless starts and stops and asterns and double rings without moving a hair. Babcock boilers to give them their power, oil burners that could be slammed in and out in seconds to regulate that power. A steady rumbling noise that induced deep sleep in one's cabin.

Why would anyone want to go to sea in a glorified Nissan motor car?
(Pint)

chadburn
27th July 2012, 17:57
You have to go back into Marine Engineering history to find the answer Art.
In the late 1900's/ early 20's there was a "rash" of Turbine Blade failure's which left a lot of Shipowner's very unhappy. The alternative was the VTE's (which was the Devil they knew) or the very heavy and expensive Marine Diesel Engine. At this point knowing there was a gap in the power market the Diesel Engine builder's jumped in with their various offering's from the unusual Scott- Still to the Doxford. To make the Diesel Engine more attractive to Shipowner's being able run on the cheaper HFO was important when full away. For manoeuvring the Scott- Still used steam and other engine's used pre-injection, however the increased wear when using HFO was well known in the 1920's and Engine Builder's subsidised the cost of repair's to make their product more attractive to the Shipowner. The clanker's were not popular with all Shipowner's who still preferred steam and in the case of the VTE well into the 1950's. The Chief want's the sack if he has an untidy Turbine Engineroom.

averheijden
18th August 2012, 13:39
Hugh -
That Doxford engine was truly loved by a lot of us. I never imagined walkways and lights in the crankcase of an engine!
I spent almost a year on the MS Trans-Gulf, owned and operated by Mississippi Valley Barge Line. It was their only ship. Formerly the Esso Little Rock, Sun Hull 191, she was delivered 1/1941. converted at Alabama DD to a half-assed self-unloader bulk carrier with large deck cranes and a belt system alongside the holds which never worked. Engine was 5 cyl 32" x 40"/55", 8250 BHP Sun-Doxford. That engine was the biggest thing I ever saw. Remember, this was 1965.
Don

L.S.
She was SUN HULL 197, see:

http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters/tekst/Doxford%20Engines%20built%20by%20SUN%20pdf.pdf
or
http://shipbuildinghistory.com/history/shipyards/1major/inactive/sun.htm

SUN- DOXFORD (http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters/sundoxford.html)

Regards
Alfons

Tim Gibbs
22nd August 2012, 13:20
Now, a twin bank Doxford - that's got to be the ultimate ..... nightmare*/ excitment*/ ingenuity*/stupidity*/ bravery*
*= delete as felt appropriate