Photo Puzzler

11th March 2009, 18:27
Hey Mates, I have a problem ---identifying a photo and it's date! I don't use S.N as much as I would like and uploading this photo for viewing is beyond my abilities. Any offers of help much appreciated. The photo is of a group of 21 people (and a dog)--either crew or shipyard workers aboard the "Paul Paix" o/n 125146. As you know from my first post last year, I'm tracing my grandfathers seafaring life---mostly on Ropner ships-- but I've "lost"
him in London Dec 1909, and am trying to find another starting point. Maybe the "Paul Paix" is that point, but I need to identify the year if possible.Could be 1908 when PP was built How do I get the photo on the site for you knowledgeable people to view it? Also need to find out what MN ships in port of London, Dec 11th - 20th 1909. Where to find that info?
All help appreciated---I know you have the answers

12th March 2009, 00:05
Hi Robbie,

You will need access to a scanner to scan the photo so it can be uploaded. If you have one yourself this should be straightforward. If you do not you will need to find a friend to do this for you and then upload to the site. If you do not have a friend with a scanner, please contact me and if you wish you can mail the photo to me and I will scan, upload it and return it to you.

12th March 2009, 18:40
...... Also need to find out what MN ships in port of London, Dec 11th - 20th 1909. Where to find that info? ......

For ships in port, try the daily newspaper 'Lloyds List'. If you are coming to London, I know the Guildhall Library in the City of London has a run of them, don't know how far they go back. Other libraries may also have runs of them, the British Newspaper Library at Colindale for example.

Universities, especiaolly in port cities in Germany may also have them.

13th March 2009, 18:08
Thanks to "andysk" & to "benjidog" who is assisting with the photo. I checked the Guildhall website where it gives details of Lloyds Voyage Ledgers --1838-1927, these were then replaced by Voyage Cards 1927 onwards. The Ledgers will be of interest to me pre-WW1, as I have no evidence that my grandfather went back to sea between the wars. Have to do the Guildhall search personally though---they charge 50 quid an hour for searches! Ouch! Sometimes I get the impression the charges are set high so as to make people shy away.

13th March 2009, 19:41
I have uploaded Robbie's photo of this ship HERE (

K urgess
13th March 2009, 23:30
This appears in the Science Museum reprint series book "Merchant Steamers and Motor Ships - Catalogue of the Collection" by H. P. Spratt, B.Sc., A.S.M.E.

144. MODEL OF MIDSHIP SECTION OF S.S. "PAUL PAIX" (1908). Scale 1:24.
Lent by Messrs. R. Craggs and Sons Ltd.

This represents a portion of the midship section of an oil-tank steamer built in 1908 by
Messrs. R. Craggs and Sons Ltd., of Middlesborough, on the Isherwood system.
The value of logitudinal framing was demonstrated as early as 1834 in iron ships by
Mr. John Scott Russell, who built a small steamer entirley without transverse frames. The
famous P.S.S. "Great Eastern" (see Nos. 35 to 39), likewise embodied this principle. Later,
other attempts were made to use longitudinal frames more in shipbuilding, but with no great
practical success until Sir Joseph W. Isherwood patented in 1906 the form of ship construction
that now bears his name.
In bulk-oil carriers, the numerous "tank" bulkheads that are necessary provide adequate
transverse strength. In the "Paul Paix" two transverse plate-frames only were required
between consecutive bulkheads. As shown by the model, these plate-frames were divided
by the centre-line bulkhead, and a complete half-frame was fitted on each side. All longitudinal
framing was cut off at each oil-tight bulkhead, and the continuity of strength maintained by
gusset or corner plates. The bulb-angle framing at the sides connected to the horizontal
stiffeners of the bulkhead, and both the framing and stiffeners increased in dimensions with
their depth below the water-line. Each transverse bulkhead was further supported by vertical
web stiffeners worked on the opposite side to the horizontal stiffeners. Each strong transverse
frame was built up of 0.437-in. plating and varied in depth from 20 to 39 in. The plating
of decks and sides was 0.5 in. thick.
The "Paul Paix" had one flush deck, with a continuous expansion trunk above her main
cargo spaces. She could carry 6200 tons dead-weight, and could load a full draught with
light motor spirit, carried in 16 seperate tanks. Oil fuel was carried in double-bottom compart-
Principal dimensions of the S.S. "Paul Paix" were as follows :- Gross register, 4196 tons;
length over all, 355 ft.; breadth, 49.4 ft.; moulded depth, 28ft.
Inv. 1909-122, Photo 2597, L.S.

Phew! :sweat:

Pat Thompson
13th March 2009, 23:52
Marconi Sahib,

VMT for that

14th March 2009, 15:04
It Might be worth a basic search, there are a few entries in the ancestry web site for the “Paul Paix”, As you haven’t given the name of the relative that you are researching see if the name appears in the list of 400+ if you find anything then you would have to pay to view the original document for further information and date
I’m sure that there will be access to the site in the local Library


14th March 2009, 16:32
I have uploaded Robbie's photo of this ship HERE (

Thankyou Benjidog for uploading Robbies picture. Was worth the wait for such a great photo. Such a pity that we don't see many more of this quality. (Thumb)

Thanks also to Robbie for sharing it with us. (Thumb)

20th March 2009, 14:43
Thanks Ray, but although I do have research ongoing in USA, it doesn't concern ships from UK to USA. The person being researched is J F Lapsien, my grandfather.My first post carried details.
With the photo of "PAUL PAIX", I was hoping someone might be able to pinpoint a year---from clothing or whatever. I'm not too sure that the group are crew---could they be shipyard workers? Also, looks like a dog in the front----did dogs go to sea?( apart from old seadogs!!!)

20th March 2009, 15:42
Dogs went to sea, at that time. Those are sailors, not dock workers, those with sweat rags in the back row probably stokers. In the middle would be the officers present, in the front the youngest members of the crew - this was standard photographic practice.
It would seem she was Norwegian owned at the end, she became BARDE (M. Kuhnle) in 1926 and MIMOSA (T. Dannevig) from 1930 till she was broken up in 1935. M. Kuhnle I do not know, but T. Dannevig was a Sandefjord shipowner who moved to Oslo before 1930. It seems the ship was a bit historic as being the first built on the Isherwood system. Pictures: Regards, Stein.