Very Sad News from the British Pioneer

Satanic Mechanic
18th March 2009, 19:52
I just heard a first trip deck cadet has died on the British Pioneer after some sort of pump room incident - thought to be a fall but no details.

Very very sad news indeed

Graham Wallace
20th March 2009, 02:14
I just heard a first trip deck cadet has died on the British Pioneer after some sort of pump room incident - thought to be a fall but no details.

Very very sad news indeed


So it is still happening.

I know there were 2 Engineer Apprentices killed on the Vision in 1959 and I believe in the same pumproom incident.

One was Colin Waterhouse a 1956 first trip E/A, I have yet to find out who the other was , possibly a 1955 and therefore not a first tripper, but if he were another 1956 (and first trip) that would have been even more horrendous!

I have never heard of any other apprentices ( E/A or N/A ) in pumproom incidents. It is not usually a topic one gets into.

Graham

Satanic Mechanic
20th March 2009, 03:38
I truly hope you don't mean that this forum only exists to talk about nice things! How many years experience is there on this forum that may be applied to problems?

Wouldn't be fair to comment on this incident in particular without all the details, but in general there are parts of the job which we all know are inherently more risky than others. I see no reason not to talk about these jobs, it is only by discussion that solutions may be sought. Pump rooms are dangerous - we all know that. There has been another tragic death in a pump room, as well as the sadness I feel for all concerned there is a part of me that wants to see changes made to designs that may reduce/remove the risk from these aspects of the job.

I am a great believer in designing the problem/hazard out of a particular problem rather than smothering it in paperwork as many companies do. Enclosed spaces are notorious and very difficult to do anything about - but pump rooms, and again with out prejudicing this particular incident, do have a lot of potential for design changes that may help. I'll give you a few ideas - not saying for a second that they are all good ideas but they are ideas - feel free to discuss and add your own.

1. Airlock entrance from bottom of engine room to pumproom
2. Overide-able external lock down on gas detection/ oxygen reduction
3. enclosed stairways
4. entrance alarm
5. motion detectors at entrances
6. external and internal visual/audible atmosphere alarms
7. personnel alarm at every level

Naytikos
20th March 2009, 06:35
If you take the job you accept the risks, otherwise go and drive a desk.
A 30-40 foot ladder span, with nothing but empty space above, below and to either side could be daunting for a first-tripper who may not previously have climbed anything apart from the stairs to his bedroom. If anything a pumproom is worse than a tank because at least the latter is usually pretty dark and one cannot see how far it is to the bottom.

Satanic Mechanic
20th March 2009, 12:59
If you take the job you accept the risks, otherwise go and drive a desk.
A 30-40 foot ladder span, with nothing but empty space above, below and to either side could be daunting for a first-tripper who may not previously have climbed anything apart from the stairs to his bedroom. If anything a pumproom is worse than a tank because at least the latter is usually pretty dark and one cannot see how far it is to the bottom.

Nah - no chance. Thing is, there is no reason to build things that way except for cost. By subscribing to your point of view the only thing you are doing is allowing piss poor cheap and dangerous design, a lot of companies love that point of view - they can take chances with our lives and save money. BP to be fair are willing to spend money on recognised problems.

You reduce the risks as far as is possible by good design is good engineering and not some sort of cop out.

Actually the more i read your post the more i think your a reactionary ****

derekhore
20th March 2009, 20:17
So it is still happening.

I know there were 2 Engineer Apprentices killed on the Vision in 1959 and I believe in the same pumproom incident.

One was Colin Waterhouse a 1956 first trip E/A, I have yet to find out who the other was , possibly a 1955 and therefore not a first tripper, but if he were another 1956 (and first trip) that would have been even more horrendous!

I have never heard of any other apprentices ( E/A or N/A ) in pumproom incidents. It is not usually a topic one gets into.

Graham


Not a pumproom incident, but I seem to remember a Deck Cadet called Andy Parsons who was killed in a tank incident back in the early/mid 70's.

Graham Wallace
20th March 2009, 22:04
I truly hope you don't mean that this forum only exists to talk about nice things! How many years experience is there on this forum that may be applied to problems?

Wouldn't be fair to comment on this incident in particular without all the details, but in general there are parts of the job which we all know are inherently more risky than others. I see no reason not to talk about these jobs, it is only by discussion that solutions may be sought. Pump rooms are dangerous - we all know that. There has been another tragic death in a pump room, as well as the sadness I feel for all concerned there is a part of me that wants to see changes made to designs that may reduce/remove the risk from these aspects of the job.

I am a great believer in designing the problem/hazard out of a particular problem rather than smothering it in paperwork as many companies do. Enclosed spaces are notorious and very difficult to do anything about - but pump rooms, and again with out prejudicing this particular incident, do have a lot of potential for design changes that may help. I'll give you a few ideas - not saying for a second that they are all good ideas but they are ideas - feel free to discuss and add your own.

1. Airlock entrance from bottom of engine room to pumproom
2. Overide-able external lock down on gas detection/ oxygen reduction
3. enclosed stairways
4. entrance alarm
5. motion detectors at entrances
6. external and internal visual/audible atmosphere alarms
7. personnel alarm at every level

I'm not too sure how to reply to your first paragraph comment and I presume it is directed at me. I'm not that naive to think deaths do not occur and the occurances that do should be ignored or hidden.

For 10 years or so I have been making a database of BP Engineering Apprentices, branched out a few years ago to cover all BP seagoing personnel.
So I do take note of these occurances but is definitely a topic that luckily does not come up often.

Graham

Satanic Mechanic
20th March 2009, 23:03
Actually the first paragraph was badly worded - What I should have written was- " thankfully we don't have to talk about it too often, but they are worthwhile topics" (Thumb)

barnsey
21st March 2009, 05:24
I started a new thread this morning about pumprooms on the older type product tankers. They were terribly dangerous but when you look at the state of them I would suspect that the accident statistics were fairly light considering all things. Being aware of the problem certainly heightens self preservation and then again we were not under the pressures that started in the 1970's. I remember in those early 70's on British Trust, Patrol and Gannet we really pushed the envelope ridiculously so for old designs. How the boilers and pumps stood up to it beats me. But going down pumprooms which were gassed up to unsafe limits was still not on.

Satanic mechanic ... I think you are slightly behind times and applying methods which would not neccessarily achieve safety. These days good companies recognised that Safety is good business. The actual crew have to think and be safe. The owners have to encourage a safe attitude amongst the office to provide an environment where safety aboard is paramount.

How many times have we heard of people rushing into a tank to save someone collapsed on the deck only to become another body and even a third doing the same thing? No amount of the devices you have mentioned can stop that happening if the people do not heed the basics. How many alarms have been cut out, procedures circumvented or efficient methods been proven to not be efficient.

Think safe, be safe and maintain is good practice and good for the business. (Hippy)

Satanic Mechanic
21st March 2009, 10:31
Barnsey, this is actually a subject that I have very strong feelings about on many levels. It is a normal solution for any company to try and make things safe through paperwork - its cheaper. You are of course correct that an appreciation of the danger is paramount but that is not an excuse for permitting poor/ dangerous design.

Let us choose a slightly different example - the seemingly routine task of cleaning a hot filter. A few have been burnt in recent times doing this , usually by opening a pressurised filter. Now you are correct that they should realise the dangers BUT everything possible should be done to ensure that it is made as hard as possible to open a pressurised filter i.e. interlock the inuse filter, provide seperate vents and drains on the filter housing, insist manufacturers install tell tales and provide a set of clear instructions in standard english at the filter - ta da you have now reduced the potential of an accident to the point where someone has to really apply themselves to get it wrong.

Another one - titanium plate coolers - notorious for cutting hands - company solution - wear armoured gloves (like dead easy to work in). My solution - in future insist the manufacturer provides rounded or folded edges = no cuts

Now it would appear this poor cadet had a fall and wasn't discovered until the following morning - now this is obviously purely hypothetical until a full investigation is done but if we take that as a scenario the questions that have to be asked are

Why was he down there
How did he get in without anyone knowing
why did he fall
how did he fall
why could he not raise the alarm
was he easy to rescue

now think about it and ask how many of these could have been reduced by good design and not just procedures.

And I am not behind the times here - i am well ahead of the game, i just have expensive ideas.

barnsey
21st March 2009, 11:43
I have very little to argue against your reply ... you are of course right. however people are also a huge problem and boy! do they render good design and safety devices irrelevant in the most amazing cases.

So, I still say good companies do go along way towards buying good design, its silly not to. Yes I agree they do use paperwork to tick the boxes to cover their backsides and the accountants chop to save in spite of good arguments not to. Butyou have to accept that "human beans" are also lazy and adept at doing things the "Easy way" ... with fatal results.

Nothing and nobody is perfect ... you will never win.... but its worth trying. (Hippy)

Satanic Mechanic
21st March 2009, 12:34
Barnsey

Very little to disagree with there and for sure people are always the problem, you are quite right in saying they will always find new and imaginative ways of hurting/killing themselves.

What I regard as good safe design is one where the easy way is the safe way and one where it is very hard to do it any other way - this is relatively easy to apply to equipment - a bit more difficult when it comes to applying it to places like pump rooms.

But there are ways around it, lets say for instance that he went down the pumproom without telling anyone, that goes completely against procedures but you could reduce the risk of that happening by employing a door open alarm, a doorlock such as a keypad and (this a bit left field) say some PIR motion sensors. I mention the motion sensors as pumprooms are also favourites for stowaways. There is plenty more - but you get the picture. All companies in the UK have to ensure enhanced safety measures for apprentices under something called Parkes Dictum. Procedures are not enough - he should not have been able to access the pumproom without anyone knowing. I am of the opinion that a lot of problems may be reduced by the application of simple methods and sometimes just a bit of imagination.What I do feel is of upmost importance though is not to ignore the requirement for basic skills, again this can be easy - if you understand why precautions are in place then you understand the danger.

JohnBP
22nd March 2009, 21:50
Just before I went to sea on my first trip, a neighbours son Munroe Chambers on his first ship as a deck app. with BP was killed in a pump room incident. I believe he was gassed.

chrishandel
22nd March 2009, 21:57
I seem to remember 3 men being gassed to death in a tank on one of the R class VLCC's in the 70's. Accidents are a tragedy whever they happen and I feel deeply for the family of the young man who was killed

barnsey
22nd March 2009, 23:38
John BP .... have you got a date for that?

randcmackenzie
23rd March 2009, 00:11
The principle that if a mistake is allowed to be possible, sonner or later someone will make it always applies.
This is where good design has the edge over good procedure.

JohnBP
23rd March 2009, 13:22
John BP .... have you got a date for that?

It was 1965 I believe. Munroe was from Uddingston near Glasgow in Scotland and was on his first trip. His mum and mine were friends.

barnsey
23rd March 2009, 13:38
Maybe Graham Wallace can give us some more information ... he has the records

DAVELECKIE
23rd March 2009, 21:47
I seem to remember 3 men being gassed to death in a tank on one of the R class VLCC's in the 70's. Accidents are a tragedy whever they happen and I feel deeply for the family of the young man who was killed

I can recollect this.
It was definately on one of the R Boats about 1975 -79.
I believe from memory it was the Chief Officer and either two cadets or a cadet and the third mate.
They were working on with compressed air masks on a shared line. From memory I believe the cadet was quite a large lad and with the physical effort of working they suffered a lack of air and passed out. The mate who was at the top of the tank went down with a caba set on found them unconcious at the bottom of the tank, put his caba set on one of them and then attempted to climb out of the tank without caba. He was overcome by gas halfway up the ladder and fell back into the tank.
This sad event brought about a total rethink on shared ba airline systems within the company as well as the industry.

Dave

fishcake
23rd March 2009, 22:15
Joined the Renown in the late 70's and was told that this had happend on this ship.

richardc
23rd March 2009, 22:30
The pumpman on my first ship was lucky to escape his stupidity with his life after going down the pumproom while we were loading crude, to fix a small leak from a gland/joint, even after being banned from doing so by the 2nd mate, who hammered the clips shut on the pumproom door. He was spotted by the watch collapsed on the landing half way up on his way out. Fortunately he was brought out alive after others risked their lives using the antiquated breathing apparatus of the day to rescue him.
Is there a requirement for people working confined spaces aboard ships to have specific 'Confined Space' training and 'Confined Space' certificates? These are a requirement shoreside for people working in the sewage and construction industries and others no doubt, who regularly enter confined spaces like manholes and pumproom sumps. They consist of 1 or 2 days training followed by a practical exam and require renewal every 3 years.
Accidents still occur but taking the training and the exam, although not overly difficult, does concentrate the mind.
Regards, Richard.

trevflstn
23rd March 2009, 23:36
The incident refered to definitely happened on the Renown in, I believe, 75 or 76 . I was on the Renown in early 77 as extra 3rd mate while the mate was on daywork renewing all the tank anodes. As far as I can recall this was the first major work in the tanks since the incident and not suprisingly the safety precautions before and during tank entry were extremely thorough. I think some of the permanent crew had been on board at the time of the incident but did not speak of it much, again not suprisingly.
I have been told that it was the incident on the Renown that triggered the complete overhaul of confined space working by the DOT and HSE which is still in use today.

Graham Wallace
24th March 2009, 01:13
David,

I have no information on deadly accidents to E/A and N/A's occuring at sea other than the Vision incident in 1959. Somewhere I have notes on deaths but not necessarily thru seagoing accidents

I have a number of Drydock list in 1960's that have obituary notices.
In an issue 1962/63 was a notification about VK Harrison N/A ( I wonder what happened here?), also included was the passing of 3 ex Commodores, Copeman,Bumstead and Preece.

Nov 1963; Captain KM Mitchell and C/O WF Duff (I sailed with him on the Sovereign in 1960)

Other sections had Certificates of Competency successes so it was not all downbeat.

I have 3 copies of Fleet News (1973,1977 and 1979) most obits were ex Skippers , no indications of Junior ranks.

I had never heard of the N/A that John mentioned.

I lost a lot of potential when Richard Gough ex 1962 N/A here on SN disappeared a few years ago and I lost touch with him.

Graham

derekhore
24th March 2009, 19:02
I can recollect this.
It was definately on one of the R Boats about 1975 -79.
I believe from memory it was the Chief Officer and either two cadets or a cadet and the third mate.
They were working on with compressed air masks on a shared line. From memory I believe the cadet was quite a large lad and with the physical effort of working they suffered a lack of air and passed out. The mate who was at the top of the tank went down with a caba set on found them unconcious at the bottom of the tank, put his caba set on one of them and then attempted to climb out of the tank without caba. He was overcome by gas halfway up the ladder and fell back into the tank.
This sad event brought about a total rethink on shared ba airline systems within the company as well as the industry.

Dave


I have a feeling that this might be the incident I referred to earlier, with the 3/O (not Cadet as I first indicated) being Andy Parsons.

robbie 1954
24th March 2009, 20:23
I was on the British Admiral as first trip E/A and we were replacing sacrificial anodes when myself and the other E/A (David McIntosh) were told to get of of the tanks as there had been an accident on the British Renown. But I though itwas 1974.

kevjacko
26th March 2009, 21:43
The incident refered to definitely happened on the Renown in, I believe, 75 or 76 . I was on the Renown in early 77 as extra 3rd mate while the mate was on daywork renewing all the tank anodes. As far as I can recall this was the first major work in the tanks since the incident and not suprisingly the safety precautions before and during tank entry were extremely thorough. I think some of the permanent crew had been on board at the time of the incident but did not speak of it much, again not suprisingly.
I have been told that it was the incident on the Renown that triggered the complete overhaul of confined space working by the DOT and HSE which is still in use today.

My Uncle Tony Leslie (sadly passed away) was chief steward on the Renown at the time of this incident. This on the back of being on the Tweed when a two men lost their legs when tying up. Uncle Tony only ever once told me the story of the Renown, how his side of things panned out, and of the inquest afterwards which he had to attend. I know it had a profound effect on him, he fought what was already a lost battle to bring those men back, but the sad fact was they were already gone by the time they were brought up out the tank.

A sad incident indeed.

Satanic Mechanic
27th March 2009, 09:57
i think there have been a couple of incidents - but the most infamous one I think involved the use of two masks on one ba set or something similar - let me try and dig the report out

holmzie1
27th March 2009, 15:35
If you take the job you accept the risks, otherwise go and drive a desk.
A 30-40 foot ladder span, with nothing but empty space above, below and to either side could be daunting for a first-tripper who may not previously have climbed anything apart from the stairs to his bedroom. If anything a pumproom is worse than a tank because at least the latter is usually pretty dark and one cannot see how far it is to the bottom.

I am the mother of Deck Cadet Officer Blair Jordan. Blair was my only child and had served 4 weeks and 3 days aboard the British Pioneer on his first ever trip to sea. There are many rumours but it appears Blair did not fall off a ladder. There is still an ongoing investigation as to why this dreadful thing has happened. My son was 17 years old and had only just began to spread his wings and like any mother I loved him dearly and am broken hearted.

As there has been no press release on this matter I tried searching the internet to see if it could maybe provide me with some unanswered questions and I came across this website in the hope I might find some advice.

Most posts have been quite comforting but when I read yours I was most upset and disgusted at your lack of respect and compassion - I hope you are proud of yourself - Caroline Jordan

G0SLP
27th March 2009, 15:56
Dear Mrs Jordan

Thank you for taking the time to comment here. My sincere condolences on your loss, and I hope that in time the pain will ease for you and your family.

As a serving Senior Officer, albeit not with your son's employers, I feel sure that the circumstances of your son's tragic death will be fully investigated, and that whatever went wrong will hopefully not be repeated, thus saving another family from what you're going through. I am also sure that BP will keep you fully informed, although I appreciate that nothing can ever replace your son.

I also feel desperately sorry for the other members of the ship's company involved; a death at sea is always a horrible business, particularly when the person involved is so young.


Respectfully,

Mark A Coultas

non descript
27th March 2009, 15:58
Dear Mrs Jordan,

I am so very sorry that the journey that brings you here, had as its starting point such tragedy and I am sure that every Member of SN shares your sorrow. There may be different ways that each of us express ourselves, but we are joined in a common bond and I can reasonably assure you that no one would ever wish to set out and show disrespect of lack of understanding, and I can only apologise if, through the wrong use of words, that impression came across.

I offer you my sincere condolences at your loss, a loss that mere words cannot ease, but hopefully you will allow the Site to recognise Blair’s efforts, his life and his vision, albeit cut short in the cruelest manner.

My sincere thoughts
Mark

derekhore
27th March 2009, 18:05
Dear Mrs Jordan....

As an ex-Deck Cadet myself with BP ...albeit many years ago now, I offer my sincere condolences to you and your close relatives.
What you must be going through at this present time I cannot imagine .. but my thoughts and those of my family are with you all at this sad time.

Respectfully yours


Derek Hore.

MN Retired

benjidog
27th March 2009, 20:41
Dear Caroline,

I am very sorry to hear about your son and offer my condolences as I am sure will all of our members. So tragic to lose him just when he was starting out in life.

Please do not judge the members of this site by a single posting made by one thoughtless person who I am sure will wish he had kept his mouth shut on reading this thread.

I hope that you discover the cause of your son's death and that some lessons are learned that will reduce the likelihood of anyone else suffering the same fate.

kevjacko
27th March 2009, 21:27
Dear Mrs Jordan,

To say I am sorry for your loss is an understatement. I am but an ordinary member of this site but qualified enough in the university of life to offer my sincere condolences. No words can bring comfort at this time, having lost past family & friends at sea myself I know the quest for answers is often difficult. I do hope this process is made as transparent as possible for you, to help provide the answers I know you'll desperately want.

With Respect and sympathy,

KEV

jmcg
27th March 2009, 21:53
With greatest sympathy to all his family. A tragic loss of one so young.

John

Satanic Mechanic
27th March 2009, 23:47
Mrs Jordan

Firstly my sincerest condolences at your loss, I heard the sad news through the very effective grapevine that operates at sea and was deeply saddened to hear it.
I thought I would start the thread on the site both as a piece of news and as a debate into what we all recognise as a potentially dangerous area of an oil tanker.

There is a school of thought which is of the opinion that a certain amount of danger is good for training people about the dangers that may be encountered at sea. While it is not without its merits it is an opinion which is becoming much less acceptable as is the attempted mitigation of risk by paperwork. Please try not to be too distressed by the attitude as while it may appear callous I am sure the poster did not mean any malice in what he said.

I will send you a private message/e mail

mason1
29th March 2009, 16:59
As a wife of a serving engineering officer I do realise and accept that there are dangers involved with any job at sea. I did, however, trust that such risks were minimised using standard basic practices. Blair should have been protected by these.
Where dangers are known to exist, as much as possible should always be done by companies and workers to minimise them - for all our peace of mind.

holmzie1
30th March 2009, 23:44
Thank you for your reply, I wonder perhaps if you could tell me anything else about Parkes Dictum. I have searched the web and can find nothing. Thanks again - Caroline Jordan

Satanic Mechanic
31st March 2009, 00:45
Thank you for your reply, I wonder perhaps if you could tell me anything else about Parkes Dictum. I have searched the web and can find nothing. Thanks again - Caroline Jordan

I probably should not have mentioned it as it does not apply to ships and I don't even know if it is still acknowledged. Basically it was a piece of judicial dictat that stated apprentices do not have the experience to be as safe as those with experience and that this should be allowed for.

The main reason I mentioned it is that it makes perfect sense to me and the principal is one I have always tried to employ, a major qualification is that the apprentice must actually be taught the dangers otherwise they will not understand the precautions.

Sorry if that was not the answer you were wanting.

Did you receive my private message/ e mail?

JamesM
1st April 2009, 13:26
Dear Mrs Jordan,
My sincere condolences to you and your family. I'm sure I speak for all of us on this forum when I say that our hearts go out to you, and yours, at this very sad time.
As an ex-BP Engineer I hope the Company will give you all the information and support that you need to help you come to terms with your loss.
Respectfully,
James

Lauren
6th April 2009, 13:41
Dear Mrs Jordan,

I began my cadetship with Blair at Warsash and was terribly upset when i heard of his accident. He was a popular guy at college and always ready with a smile, especially if someone else was feeling down. I would have liked to have been at his funeral to pay my last respects but unfortunately was away at sea myself. I am so very sorry for your loss, i can honestly say that college simply will not be the same without him and he will be greatly missed.

Kind Regards

Lauren

As a Deck Cadet with Carnival UK i have little knowledge or experience of Tankers, and i find the posts here helpful to try and understand what happened and why it was allowed to happen. My Staff Captain onboard my last ship is ex-tanker and he himself was completely confused at how someone so inexperienced was allowed to be left unsupervised in such hazardous areas. Does anyone know if a full investigation underway? I checked MAIB and have found no mention of it.

James_C
6th April 2009, 14:24
This incident won't be under the jurisdictionon of the MAIB as the 'British Pioneer' is not British flagged. She's registered in Douglas, Isle of Man and so the investigation will be conducted by the Manx authorities.

Iain B
6th April 2009, 15:15
Dear Mrs Jordan

Can I add my deep sympathy and condolences, what a tragic and terrible loss for you. I hope you can get the information you need to provide some comfort.

I had some experience with a serious incident which involved a loss of life on an Isle of Man ship some years ago.

I can say that I thought the Isle of Man flag state were very professional and very proper in carrying out a very thorough investigation.

As I recall the head of the Administartion (an ex Shell Capt) went to the ship and conducted the investigation himself.

I am sure that BP will help as much as they can and they will take this very seriously. If you want to contact the Isle of Man Administration the telephone number is 01624 688500 and the Principal Marine Surveyor is called Dick Welsh.

They might not be able to tell you much more than you already know, but they should be able to give you some assurance that a proper investigation will be carried out and a report made.


Iain

bplegs
6th April 2009, 17:46
Mrs Jordan,

Please accept my deepest condolences for the loss of your son Blair.

I was at sea with BP for a number of years and I am now employed ashore, I am also a mother. Having said that, I can only try to imagine the depth of your loss as I am sure that Blair was a son to be proud of (Lauren's post certainly gave a nice description of your son - thanks Lauren)

I am truly very sorry for your loss.
My sincere best regards
Emma

jonsea
9th April 2009, 22:56
Dear Mrs Jordan,
As an ex-BP deck cadet/ deck officer, may I too offer my sincerest condolences on your very sad loss; as the father of a 17 year old boy myself, I can only begin to imagine your pain and suffering.
Please understand that the minority of postings here do not reflect the majority feeling. Seafarers on this site regard themselves as part of a huge family; the ex-BP seafarers amongst us feel as though we have lost one of our own.
May Blair rest in peace.
Jon

reddeer
1st May 2009, 17:00
Caroline
We are so so sorry to hear this terrible news as we enjoyed living in Baku and our families were friends when his Dad worked there and our children played with Blair in Baku . Tanya & yourself had a great time there and were very close during that time. It is such a real shame when an accident like this happens and a full investigation and public explanation must be given by BP to fully explain the circumstances and what happened. I am disgusted at the way BP handled this as it is a shocking treatment of any employee's families in these circumstances. Our families thoughts are with his whole family as its a tragedy that i am sure was totally avoidable and needless. BP must be brought to task on this as closure is so important for the family as well as making sure this can never happen again. George, Tanya & the boys



I am the mother of Deck Cadet Officer Blair Jordan. Blair was my only child and had served 4 weeks and 3 days aboard the British Pioneer on his first ever trip to sea. There are many rumours but it appears Blair did not fall off a ladder. There is still an ongoing investigation as to why this dreadful thing has happened. My son was 17 years old and had only just began to spread his wings and like any mother I loved him dearly and am broken hearted.

As there has been no press release on this matter I tried searching the internet to see if it could maybe provide me with some unanswered questions and I came across this website in the hope I might find some advice.

Most posts have been quite comforting but when I read yours I was most upset and disgusted at your lack of respect and compassion - I hope you are proud of yourself - Caroline Jordan

rog37
26th May 2009, 21:59
Mrs Jordan may I also say, we that is all of the serving officers in BP feel your loss, on my ship the British Tenacity when we heard of the incident every one was very shocked and stunned, which is an understament, but we must not speculate as to what happened I know you need answers but the correct governing bodies will do this in time but they are very slow and methodical in there approach
the deck cadet on here was at college with Blair and it was very traumatic time for him as seafarers we are a close family it affects us all deep down.

Cruise_cadet
17th July 2009, 03:23
Mrs Jordan,

I was so deeply sorry to hear about Blair's death back in March. I was at Warsash with him and considered him one of my closest friends at college. His energy and love for life was infectious and I never saw him without either a smile on his face or without anything to say.

I've been at sea for most of the last 5 months, so the information thats got through to me has been sporadic, slow and sparse. I really hope that you find out everything about the circumstances of Blair's death.

Once again, I am so so sorry for your loss, I can't begin to imagine how difficult the last few months would have been for you.

Warm regards,

Chris Smith
Deck Cadet
Carnival UK

Billieboy
17th July 2009, 11:42
I probably should not have mentioned it as it does not apply to ships and I don't even know if it is still acknowledged. Basically it was a piece of judicial dictat that stated apprentices do not have the experience to be as safe as those with experience and that this should be allowed for.

The main reason I mentioned it is that it makes perfect sense to me and the principal is one I have always tried to employ, a major qualification is that the apprentice must actually be taught the dangers otherwise they will not understand the precautions.

Sorry if that was not the answer you were wanting.

Did you receive my private message/ e mail?

Agree with you 100% SM, apprentices are there to be trained, disciplined and examined on their knowledge. It is improper, for anyone, to order an apprentice into a confined space, without first making the person aware of a) the danger, b) action to take if danger is found, and c) route to be followed out of the space. I understand that the foregoing is standard practice on repair operations in Holland, under the Dutch HSE rules(ARBOWET). Personally, I've 25+years experience as a ship repair manager in Rotterdam and North Europe, fortunately(?), I've never had anything worse than a hammered thumb happen to any of my employees. My work area was mostly steelwork on OBOs and VLOOCs, with Hot Work on Gas and Product carriers. Safety is not just good for business, if a shore team has a bang(explosion), then usually they never work, ever, again in that port.

As for modifications to pump rooms, I understand your views SM, but an airlock connection to the Engine Room is a No, No; Mr. Murphy lives in Engine Rooms! Motion indicators, alarmed doors and hatches, on pump rooms will reduce illegal access, provided that the alarms are not acceptable from the Bridge, but only from the site of the alarm. Manning scales come into play here, as with everything on a modern vessel.

Mrs, Jordan, it's impossible to say anything that could assuage the loss that you have experienced. The cause will be found and the correct action will be taken to avoid this ever happening to another adventurous young man. My most Sincere Condolences.

Satanic Mechanic
17th July 2009, 13:16
Billy

Thanks for the reply.

I was just throwing ideas about, I would love an engine room /pump room airlock, i hate going up to go down again, but you are correct it is just asking for trouble!!!

It strikes me that the biggest problem with confined spaces and the like, over and above education, is restricting access, any ideas?

Billieboy
17th July 2009, 15:58
Pump Rooms can be eliminated with deep well pumps, but this won't work when there are large volumes to be shifted. Padlocks tend to be useful at times, but it's the keys that get lost or into the wrong hands. There could be interlocks between alarms that wake the whole complement if the correct sequence of, fans, O2content and LEL measurements are NOT safe. The system can be fitted at a cost, the best would be for it to be an IMO rule. The Owners will gyp at the rule for a bit but commonsense should pull it through. The same could be applied to duct keels and the new 'Double hull', access doors, these are really dangerous as they are not very easy to gas free or aerate.

Basically confined space; access and safety; should be part of certificates, irrespective of the, "Tanker Book", notes, or the general notes on dangerous cargo for Boxers. Unfortunately, people will still be killed, let's hope that there won't be so many.

Basil
18th July 2009, 20:31
Dear Mrs Jordan,

I was so sorry when I read your harrowing posting.
We have grown up children and feel for you.

I'm ex Army, MN and RAF and came close to being killed on a couple of occasions in industry and the MN. I have to say that lack of awareness of risk featured in those 'nearlys'.
Training in the RAF and airlines was much better than I experienced in the MN. For instance, in the RAF, under medical supervision, we were rendered hypoxic to the point of unconsciousness in order to demonstrate how insidious are the effects of lack of oxygen. There is little or no warning and certainly no sensation of suffocating.
Reading through this thread has reminded and educated me of hidden dangers.

Like Naytikos, I sometimes speak in a forthright and uncompassionate manner. I'm sure he did not mean to offend. I occasionally rail against 'elfin safety' but there are clearly areas where design and training need to be re-assessed.

Kind regards,
Ian Haldane

K urgess
20th July 2009, 14:12
The majority of posts not involving condolences have been moved to a new thread in messdeck.

Billieboy
20th July 2009, 16:19
Many thanks, Marconi Sahib !

HHarris1234
11th August 2009, 02:06
Dear Mrs Jordan,

I am a Maersk deck cadet and was in the same classes with your son for the college phase at Warsash. I would just like to offer my condolences. I was very shocked to hear of your sons death a few months ago. I too am at sea, on a tanker and every time since, when I descend into our ballast pump room I do so with the memory of your son in mind. I do hope that the investigation provides you with the information you deserve.

Respectfully,

H. Harris.

Billieboy
11th August 2009, 05:36
Dear Mrs Jordan,

I began my cadetship with Blair at Warsash and was terribly upset when i heard of his accident. He was a popular guy at college and always ready with a smile, especially if someone else was feeling down. I would have liked to have been at his funeral to pay my last respects but unfortunately was away at sea myself. I am so very sorry for your loss, i can honestly say that college simply will not be the same without him and he will be greatly missed.

Kind Regards

Lauren

As a Deck Cadet with Carnival UK i have little knowledge or experience of Tankers, and i find the posts here helpful to try and understand what happened and why it was allowed to happen. My Staff Captain onboard my last ship is ex-tanker and he himself was completely confused at how someone so inexperienced was allowed to be left unsupervised in such hazardous areas. Does anyone know if a full investigation underway? I checked MAIB and have found no mention of it.



Lauren, you will find as you progress through life, that institutions such as the MAIB tend to produce reports roughly a year or two after the fact. There are many reasons for this, some of which are reported to be, "Thorough Investigation". Please try to keep an open mind and not to become too cynical until after you've achieved senior rank.

Safe voyaging,

=Billieboy=

Satanic Mechanic
11th August 2009, 07:35
You won't find it on the MAIB as it is IoM flag, the report I believe is due soon. Pump rooms are much much better now than they used to be and the P class are very good, we really should not make assumptions before the facts are known.

Safety does almost by definition tends to be reactive.

David Williams
12th August 2009, 23:14
Hi Satanic.
The British Pioneer was my first ship way
back in 1952.After reading your posting
I realised that there must have been other
ships of the same name after all these years.
The one I was on changed names and became
the Clyde Pioneer,before reverting to "British".

Dave Williams(R583900)

Satanic Mechanic
16th August 2009, 09:24
Hi Satanic.
The British Pioneer was my first ship way
back in 1952.After reading your posting
I realised that there must have been other
ships of the same name after all these years.
The one I was on changed names and became
the Clyde Pioneer,before reverting to "British".

Dave Williams(R583900)

By my reckoning this is the second one since the one you were on. She is a very nice vessel indeed - well thought out with a good quality outfit

Engine_Gadget
1st November 2009, 23:48
Mrs Jordan,

My deepest condolences about your son, Blair.

I was fortunate enough to be put in the same corridor as Blair during my first phase at Warsash, he was an amazingly happy person, his smile and sense of humour were infectious and he really brightened the place up, he was able to put a smile on anyone's face. Without Blair as a friend, I very much doubt I would have stuck out my first phase at college; he was always there for me if I needed someone to talk to, it was never an inconvenience for him. He will be sorely missed by myself and everyone else that knew him.

Engine Cadet Matt Clark
Trinity House