emrald

humbertug
22nd August 2005, 18:47
can anyone remember a gardeners coaster called emrald i was on her in the 80s any photos or imfo whould be nice (Pint)

mclean
22nd August 2005, 23:59
I thought all Gardeners coasters began with Saint, as in Saint Colman etc? Regards.

humbertug
23rd August 2005, 06:36
hi mclean yes they did my but they had the emrald on charter

R58484956
23rd August 2005, 12:56
Wm Robertson, had an Emerald built by grangemouth Dockyard co. 1550 tons. registered in glasgow.230.6 x 38.4 x 13.2. 7 cylinder diesel by British Polar.

lakercapt
23rd August 2005, 14:48
The "Emerald" was Robertsons of Glasgow and was sailed for many year by Captain Hurricane Dan MacKinnon. She was one of their first three fathom boats (a loaded draft of 18feet)
She really was Dans pride and joy and he never wanted off on leave except at Christmas and new year.

James_C
23rd August 2005, 23:56
He wasn't from Eriskay, was he? With a son who went to sea as an Engineer with BP?
Why was he known as 'Hurricane', have a penchant for bad weather, or a fiery temper?

mclean
24th August 2005, 01:57
Not sure about Gardeners but Stephenson clarke had one built 1978 which i surmise was part of the W. Robertson 'GEM' fleet intergrated in SC in 1978. built by Clelands and lengthened in the 1980s. she suffered main engine damage at Husnes in August 1999, I have no other details
John T. Oliver
John, the 1978 built Emerald is I believe still tradind in the Med under the Latvian flag and registered in Riga. Regards Colin

lakercapt
24th August 2005, 14:53
Yes he was from the western Isles but I don't know of any son. He was called that as every time he was sailing it always was reported as bad weather.Good seaman and great raconteur.
Bill Ross

lakercapt
6th September 2005, 19:17
Many of the coaster were built to conform to the gross tonnage rules and end up at 1499.99 gross.
It made them very versatile and the could carry amazing amouts of caargo for their size. The last one built for Robertsons was "Gem" and she was a large carrier.
I think it was the Dutch that started that trend as they had small ships of 499.99 tons gross that carried a lrge cargo with a crew of five and a dog.

ruud
11th September 2005, 09:14
Ahoy Bill,
Yes the Gem was built in 1969 at N.V. Nieuwe Noord Ned. Schps-Groningen[363] and her BRT was 1599-IMO:6922729-Call Sign:GZRY for Stephenson Clarke Shipping-L.o.a x br. x h.:92.72 x 13.34 x 5.188-P.o.R.:Glasgow-Flag:U.K.-Eng:4SA 8Cy 400x580 1604kW[2150bhp]Klockner-Humboldt-Deutz
I do believe that this is the GEM, but I'm not sure:
http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/4029/gem2li.th.jpg (http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gem2li.jpg)

humbertug
11th September 2005, 12:37
its certanly the gem i know ruud good photo what port is that

ruud
11th September 2005, 12:59
Ahoy,
Well that's a good question, I don't have a clue, no idea, I found the photo in my files by Ports of Call, but I'll have go for it, and ask the owner of this photo, so be patience and hope to find out, and be back later on.

Well the photo,which I posted,nobody seems to remember what port it was,in my[and Ronny's] opinion it's coming close to Birkenhead, but we're not sure.
Maybe here somebody knows the answer.

trotterdotpom
11th September 2005, 16:15
Many of the coaster were built to conform to the gross tonnage rules and end up at 1499.99 gross.
It made them very versatile and the could carry amazing amouts of caargo for their size. The last one built for Robertsons was "Gem" and she was a large carrier.
I think it was the Dutch that started that trend as they had small ships of 499.99 tons gross that carried a lrge cargo with a crew of five and a dog.

A lot of regulations could be avoided by having a ship under 1600 grt. In the late '70s the Hamburg company Heinrich von Bargen had their ship 'Anna von Bargen' re-classified from about 2000 grt ot 1599 grt. Unfortunately, this meant that she couldn't carry as much cargo - a fact that was eventually picked up by the authorities at Antwerp. The company then returned the vessel to the original tonnage but, being over 1600 grt, she wasn't allowed to sail without a Radio Officer. That's where I came on the scene, the gangway was coming up while I was still on it!

At that time, German companies were pulling a few stunts like that. There was talk that ships would leave Germany with a full complement according to German regulations, then, on arrival at Rotterdam, etc, half of them would be sent home! Unfortunately, the seamen shot themselves in the foot by accepting their 30 pieces of silver.

John T.

Tony Crompton
11th September 2005, 18:21
I think one of the most blatant examples of "Playing with the Rules was the Dutch "Gracht" ships. I forget the exact figures involved but it depended on the length how the ship was manned including the Radio Operator. These ships were about 250 feet long but had a loaded draft of 26 feet!!

I remember well the "Von Bagen" ships. Hein von Bagen and Anita von Bagen were great ships to "practice" on as a new pilot!
-------------------
Tony C

Pilot mac
13th September 2005, 17:23
Tony,
piloted those very same ships many times, absolute nightmare! It must be the 'B'Class, about 80 mtrs long X 17 mtrs beam X 8 mtrs draft, desparately left handed, no power !
I believe they have now 'moved them on'.
regards
Dave

shipsivanhoe
4th November 2006, 22:11
hi
i sailed on robertsons cairngorm for 5 months 1973 it was a lovely ship and i only paid of when they got relief crew from the roterdam pool.i believe she later sank on a voyage from easter island with a cargo of bagged fertiliser.her name then was sultang 1 but i have yet to find a photo of her.we mostly sailed from salsbruket to ancona. john

rushie
5th November 2006, 13:58
Hi mate,

I remeber the Emerald well, she was one of William Robertson's "Gem Line" ships, a regular visitor to Llandulas, North Wales to load stone. They were taken over by Stephenson Clarke shipping. The last time I saw her was in 1979 in Shoreham.

I've tried asking them for some help with history etc of the fleet....and got nowhere. William Robertson records are held at the Strathclyde Uni in Glasgow, and they are very helpful people.

Check out a thread I did in Ship Research last year..I'm sure there's a picture of her kindly supplied by an SN member.

Good luck...!

Rushie

shipmate17
5th November 2006, 16:17
Hi,
Will put photo of ship called Emerald,dont think it is the one you want though.
cheers.

Trader
5th November 2006, 21:00
I joined the "Emerald" at Partington, Manchester Ship Canal, in 1960 and we took a cargo of coal over to Ireland. Then light ship to Casablanca to load phosphate for Whitehaven. We did several trips on this trade on charter to Marchon Products of Whitehaven. The Captain was Don McKinnon as mentioned by Lakercapt. A good ship to sail on.

In 1965 I joined the "Amethyst" in Manchester with the same Capt. Don McKinnon. She had brought paper pulp from Norway. We sailed to Llandulas, N. Wales, to load limestone for Odda, Norway. (As mentioned by rushie). We brought paper pulp back to Bristol and did several similar trips mixed in with cement from the Thames to Belfast. On one trip we got caught up in a dock strike in Bristol and spent nearly a month there. We eventually got discharged and went down to Lisbon with a cargo of coke then down to Casablanca for phosphate for Lisahally (Londonderry). We certainly had a varied life on that ship. I eventually paid off in Port Talbot just before Christmas. I had been there for 6 months and never got home, I might just as well been deep sea as what we were doing was classed as coasting. I enjoyed it though as I was single, it was different for a married man.

Ruud............The photo of the "Gem" entering a dock is at Dover. She was a regular trader there in the 80's. The cars at the top of the photo are in the hovercraft car park. The dock is now a yacht marina.

Trader.

Trader
6th November 2006, 01:57
Hi,
Will put photo of ship called Emerald,dont think it is the one you want though.
cheers.

Hi shipmate17,

It is not the same "Emerald" that we are talking about. Nice picture though.

Trader.

ruud
6th November 2006, 02:03
Ahoy Trader,
Thanks for solving this "port" of the GEM.

Bearsie
13th November 2006, 14:56
Many of the coaster were built to conform to the gross tonnage rules and end up at 1499.99 gross.
It made them very versatile and the could carry amazing amouts of caargo for their size. The last one built for Robertsons was "Gem" and she was a large carrier.
I think it was the Dutch that started that trend as they had small ships of 499.99 tons gross that carried a lrge cargo with a crew of five and a dog.

The Dutch and the Germans both worked the grt scheme to the hilt.
However it was simply a reaction of the owners to financial reality
and weird manning requirements.
So you had german coasters, with 199-299-399-499 and 999 grt/brt
the tdw on these grew over the years as the yard engineers got better in outsmarting the government.
For instance the MS Egerland year 1938 had 470 tdw at 399 grt, a brandnew
(1964) ship would have had 600 to 700 tdw at 399 gt.
There was more to it than just the number of personnel required.
The captain of this ship needed only a license called A4, by adding a engineering license and down rating the engine power to under 400 hp he also avoided having to hire an engineer.
and the game was played on different levels, with quarter deckers, full deckers (single decker) and shelterdeckers.
For instance the Kehdingerland ex Hein von Bargen ex Eva Maria 1955 Holst werft was built as a Wechselschiff -changeling- (convertible)
As single decker she measured 750 (approximate) grt with 1200 tdw, as shelterdecker she was 499 gt at 850 tdw, there was a huge difference in the manning requirements and she really was never used as a single decker.
The game went as far as to use "Vermessungspanten" (Measurement ribs)
these were only tack welded on at every 4th or 5th rib and conveniently fell off after the surveyor left.... I helped some of them "fall off" on the Anita.
The Anita von Bargen 1964 Neptun werft was the opposite she was always used as a single decker with 999 gt and 2000 tdw at 499 gt she couldnt haul enough to pay the fuel...
The main problem this game creates for folks like us is that when you try to do research the ship may not be listed where you think she should be...

And so it goes :)

Frohe Reise, Bearsie

Bearsie
13th November 2006, 15:22
I think one of the most blatant examples of "Playing with the Rules was the Dutch "Gracht" ships. I forget the exact figures involved but it depended on the length how the ship was manned including the Radio Operator. These ships were about 250 feet long but had a loaded draft of 26 feet!!

I remember well the "Von Bagen" ships. Hein von Bagen and Anita von Bagen were great ships to "practice" on as a new pilot!
-------------------
Tony C

Von Bargen had the habit to reuse the names, so I have to ask what year these ships were?

I was on the Hein von Bargen ex Eva Maria built 55, the Lina von Bargen built 63 and the Anita von Bargen built 64.
While the ships were registered in Hamburg, von Bargen really was a family affair from Wischhafen on the lower Elbe river, the Captain of the "Hein" was like a dad to me, called me kid (which I was at 15 years of age)
lots of work but life was a blast !
Unfortunately they missed a turn under the sons management in the early 80's and went bankrupt.
Btw for those into coasters, there is a fine coaster musuem in Wischhafen, with its own coaster even, I shall post the url when I get home.

Happy Travels, Bearsie

GALTRA
14th November 2006, 22:26
Humbertug, I posted a photo of Wm. Robertson's "EMERALD" of 1952 on the gallery last Sat.11th.Nov. All the best, Charley.

Nairda59
25th November 2006, 15:40
I think the Capt Donald McKinnon mentioned came from Barra, and his grandson lives in Glasgow if I'm not mistaken. There were several brothers who all made either mate or master from the same family. Some on deep sea and some on Calmac.

lakercapt
25th November 2006, 16:26
Yes Hurricane Dan came from Barra as did most of his crew.
Was a problem in the spring when they all wanted off at the same time to plant their potato fields and again in the fall for the harvest!!.
Ah my days in "Robbies" are filled with many memories.