Recruiting and retaining women seafarers

Cap'n Pete
28th May 2009, 15:33
I would be interested in SN members views on what can be done to recruit more females as seafarers, and retain the few we do have.

In my 43 career as a seafarer, I have only ever sailed with 3 female deck officers and 2 female messmen. My shipping company only has 2 female officers out of 850. In the shipping industry as a whole, less than 2% of seafarers are female, and most of those are involved in hotel trades or as entertainers (eg dancers on cruise liners).

Personally, I would like to see a lot more women at sea, but I doubt if it will happen in my lifetime. I think it is more likely that we'll have another woman prime minister before we have a woman become captain of a British-flag container ship.

iain mac
28th May 2009, 15:41
maersk allready have female masters maybe not on the british flagged side but certainly under the danish side.

trotterdotpom
28th May 2009, 15:51
From other posts on the site, I've been getting the impression that shipping is now a Third World industry. Without wishing to be facetious, I'd say (sadly) most of the likely candidates are flat out, bashing their husband's shirts on a rock down at the local creek - they wouldn't know a washing machine from a GPS. Where are you going to get them from?

John T.

PS I can't talk, a few weeks ago I was thinking of upgrading my VCR to a DVD player - I ran out of the shop when the assistant started talking about Blue Rayguns or something!

Cap'n Pete
28th May 2009, 15:54
maersk allready have female masters maybe not on the british flagged side but certainly under the danish side.

You are right Ian; I too saw the photograph of her standing next to a new launching. Never saw her again though. Still, that was a positive sign.

Fairplay profiled a female captain recently; however, she did just a week in command before going ashore into the office.

I would like to see females become "real" captains and chief engineers. Not trotted out by shipping companies for the benefit of the media on special occasions.

ROBERT HENDERSON
28th May 2009, 15:59
Watching Blue Peter (I am still a child at heart) last night Condor ferries HSS from Jersey to Portsmouth had a female Master.

Regards Robert

trotterdotpom
28th May 2009, 16:05
Watching Blue Peter (I am still a child at heart) last night Condor ferries HSS from Jersey to Portsmouth had a female Master.

Regards Robert

Is that why it takes 20 hours to get there and costs a fortune? I'm going to Jersey in a few weeks time - from Stansted for peanuts. I'd have preferred the ferry but they've become ridiculous.

John T.

PS Now that I'm in my second childhood, do I get another shot at a Blue Peter Badge or has Blue Peter gone hi-tech too?

JoK
28th May 2009, 16:46
I see everyone has taken the topic seriously.

You want woman as your officers, then hire them, train them and support them.
Realize that the woman may have a family or want to have a family. A lot of the woman I know that have left the marine industry, left because they are screwed over by crewing so badly.

Stop the sexist bullshit in your system that says woman can't do the work because of Blah, blah, blah.

Nick Balls
28th May 2009, 17:58
Well I was lucky to help train many deck officers over the years.
Some have been female and without exception I can say what a pleasure it was to at last to see all this happen. Lots of people have a go at trying the seagoing life. Many give up . From experience I can't really tell if more males than females fail to make the grade. Without doubt it can be more difficult if you are the only girl on the boat ! But with only one exception I can never recall it being a problem , quite the reverse in fact. As for being "real" that is clearly a question of treating everybody equally. The female deck cadets I helped train were not treated any different from anybody else. They were hard working , hard playing members of the crew. simple as that.

Klaatu83
28th May 2009, 20:19
I've never sailed with a woman captain, but I have sailed with a good number of women, both licensed and unlicensed. Most were reasonably competent, a few were no good, and a few were exceptionally able. The same could be said for the men.

In my experience, I think that the main problem with employing women at sea is the living conditions. In the 1970s, when they first began appearing on our ships, many of our ships were left over from World War II. Those old ships had no provision for women. Not only were the heads communal, but the berthing spaces were often three-to-a-room as well. Even the officers' staterooms had adjoining heads.

In addition, those old ships had no telephone or watch-call systems. A member of the duty watch used to knock on doors to call the relief watch, and used to look in to make sure they were awake. needless to say, that sort of thing didn't go down well with the ladies.

However, it's all different now. On all the new ships everybody has their own private stateroom and head. Every stateroom also has a telephone, so the watch can be called by phone from the bridge.

Cap'n Pete
29th May 2009, 09:46
What I trying to achieve, is a debate on what can be done to encourage women to go to sea and to retain those we have.

I do not have any issues with the competence of women, etc. In my experience, there is little difference in the abilities of the few I've sailed with compared with men.

Do any SN members have any suggestions?

JoK
29th May 2009, 10:08
Are you serious, can you put changes in place or do you just want a debate?

JoK
29th May 2009, 10:13
31 July 2006 -

The truth is that shipping was indeed once a man’s world, but as an industry it is no different from many others in this respect, and along with society itself, is becoming much more inclusive. And if gatherings of shipping people seem to remain overwhelmingly male, it is worth considering the age of those gathered. As age is reduced, the proportion of women who will be present in the workplace is increased. And in this, shipping is merely typical of any modern industry.
It is fair to note that women seafarers remain in a distinct minority, although here too numbers of women are increasing as they find the sea career and modern, sophisticated ships, interesting. The sea itself, travel and considerable responsibilities at a young age attract modern women, just as they do men, while the job is less physical and arguably cleaner than it was in an earlier age. Some women have advanced to senior ranks, although children and families tend to persuade them ashore, just like their male counterparts. It is significant to note than ferry companies are considered to be “family friendly”, and increasingly employ women, while deep sea operations naturally tend to be less attractive to women who have family responsibilities.
But it is in the shore side of shipping that women are increasingly making an impact, with any intelligently managed company unwilling to deny itself the benefits of recruiting from 50% of the population. In any forward-thinking company, policies of equal opportunities have long opened the doors to women, who see their career opportunities expanding throughout the industry. In this they are assisted by WISTA, (Women’s International Shipping and Trading Association) which is a useful networking organisation with branches in most international shipping centres.
If there is still a relatively small number of women in shipping compared to some industries, it is perhaps because shipping and indeed transport has not been sufficiently “sold” to girls as an attractive career option. Occupations tend to be branded as more suitable for one sex than the other, and maritime transport, traditionally run by men, has remained below the horizons of those who advise girls on their career options.
So it is worth considering how the industry can more effectively reach bright young women looking for a rewarding and interesting career, very different to those stereotypical women’s jobs. Shipping has a great deal going for it in terms of its growth potential. It is an essential, worthwhile industry, international in scope and nature, its professional qualifications multi-national, while it is a “people” industry, to which the qualities of women are admirably suited.

Cap'n Pete
29th May 2009, 10:15
Are you serious, can you put changes in place or do you just want a debate?

Of course I can make changes. Without wishing to blow my own trumpet, I've given evidence before the Parlimentary Maritime Committee in the UK, and I've been published in a number of maritime journals on a regular basis. Each and everyone of us has the power to make changes if we strongly believe in what we are doing.

Last voyage I had a very able female second mate who refused promotion on the grounds that that the chief officers hours were excessive. I was very disappointed because I felt that here was a lost opportunity.

If we all stand back and say there is nothing we can do, then nothing will be done!

JoK
29th May 2009, 10:15
Incat Puts Out Call for Woman

INCAT boss Robert Clifford has sent out a plea to all women: roll up your sleeves and join the crew.
The leading shipbuilder is on an aggressive recruitment drive and hopes women may be the answer to the nation's
manufacturing skills shortage. The company will even consider family-friendly hours in a bid to lure more females on
to its workfloor.
"We would be very happy to have more women because there is an imbalance at the moment," Mr Clifford said.
At present the ratio of men to women in the shipbuilding crew is 300 to 1, with only a sole woman involved in the
hands-on work. But Mr Clifford wants more -- lots -- as the company enters its expansion phase and tries to double
total workforce from about 400 to 800.
"Women could be the answer," Mr Clifford said. "I would even look at tailoring the work to suit their family needs,
offering 9am to 3pm hours." Last week Incat announced a new sale to a Spanish customer, and more deals
are in the pipeline.
But Incat is having trouble finding the extra staff to meet future orders. The company is looking interstate and even
putting a call out to retirees who might be interested in returning to work.
The company is seeking a range of skills, including welding, fabrication and fitting. Mr Clifford said women could be
perfect solution. "In other parts of the world, places like Russia and Poland, it's perfectly normal to have an equal
number of men and women in this environment," he said.
"I think it would be a big advantage for us to have a closer to equal ratio." Mr Clifford said women had "nothing to
fear" from the predominantly male workforce. He said the work was not physically challenging, with strict limits on
weights which both men and women were allowed to lift. While Incat has many women in its Derwent Park office,
there is only one female on its workfloor -- Deirdre Smith. Miss Smith operates a plasma cutter, which is a
computerised machine that cuts through steel plates.
When she started with Incat 11 years ago, Miss Smith recalled, she was a little nervous, but her fears soon subsided.
"I wasn't worried about all the men so much as the work," she said. But she has mastered her role and, in the words
of Mr Clifford "is as good as any bloke". Miss Smith said she imagined other women were probably intimidated by the
idea of working with so many men.
But she said those fears were unnecessary. "I feel like part of the family now -- they all treat me as an equal."

JoK
29th May 2009, 10:20
I just posted two articles because both of them are very applicable and have some interesting points.

Most woman I know that go ashore, do so because of family issues. They tend to marry other seafarers which then becomes an issue. They either get out of it all together or end up in shore positions.

I will be quite blunt. 3/4 of my hassles come from older men, who seemed to think that because you have breasts, your IQ is diminished accordingly.

I will give it some thought. I have been almost 13 years ashore and it has been 20 years since I was FG though. And it will be Canadian flavoured,

willhastie
23rd June 2009, 10:03
think it was on the disco bay about 1979 and the company sent 2 females one deck (linda turner) and one e/r(dont remember) they gave each other support in an all male enviroment,but i do recall a lot of blokes going from one shave a week to each day,and going on watch in clean gear,their being there did make a difference for the better.

Bill Davies
23rd June 2009, 19:47
In 50 years at sea I only experienced a handful of women onboard and they were all wives of either a Chief Mate or Ch.Engineer and in each case from Far East and as such you would not know they were on board. One wife was a GP from Japan which was handy as we had two incidents that required her skills.
I have to say that I have heard some terrible tales from Masters in British companies which promoted wives accompaniying their husbands. If we extend that into the workplace I would say you have a recipe for disaster.
I am sure that they can do the job well, as none of it is particularly difficult but men being men. I have my reservations.

Bill

Satanic Mechanic
23rd June 2009, 19:54
The problem is not females it is recruiting and retention of anyone at all. Ask any of the companies and you will get the same reply - 'There are just not enough people wanting to go to sea period'

As for Females in particular , why make them any different - if they want to go to sea they will go - if they want to stay they will stay.

MARINEJOCKY
23rd June 2009, 20:55
I sailed with female deck cadets and a 3rd officer and have no problem with women working on ships however I think that unless things have changed drastically they are just not strong enough to do everything that is asked of a man.

That also applies to wimpy little guys as well, maybe those type of guys and the women could be great sitting watching computer monitors and adjusting remotely controlled equipment but I do not think they are capable of turning too hour after hour changing liners or main bearings or flogging up cylinder heads.

Maybe the women I would like to see onboard ships are incapable of the work but I am sure there are some big old D-kes out there that would love to kick my butt and show me they could do the work but I doubt it.

JoK
24th June 2009, 04:42
Well I did it and I am not a dyke and I will tell you that if I couldn't manage something, a lot of men couldn't. I have put many 20 hour plus days in.

6283
24th June 2009, 07:16
Have sailed on two different vessels under the command of masters of the female persuasion. One a Ro-Ro and the other a product tanker. I served as 2nd Mate on the one and Chief Officer on the other.
Must say that both women were fine Captains. Both of them are now pilots (in different ports).

JoK
24th June 2009, 14:35
Now that I have had some sleep and thought about it, here is the rest of my post.
Cap'n Pete, MarineJockey's post is a very good indication why a lot of woman can't be bothered to stay at sea. I have heard that opinion wrapped up in so many different obnoxious words that it just washes down my back. I know what I am capable of doing and so are the people I work with.
MarineJockey made a sweeping generalization that in order to be able to do a job, then obviously a woman has to be a dyke. To be blunt MarineJockey, you are a Jackass.

Satanic Mechanic
24th June 2009, 15:39
Top quality bait there MJ - can I borrow some?(Jester)

If I was to place my hand on my heart I would say that I prefer not to have women at sea, as a general rule they can be trouble, either directly or indirectly, BUT having said that I have sailed with a few absolute belters who I would sail with any day of the week - so it is a generalisation (actually a generalisation based on a few really bad experiences which tend to overule the good experiences for some reason)

I feel it is also important to point out that if they come to sea then they have my respect for doing that and I hope I have never treated them any differently from anyone else.

The actual question of getting more to come and getting more to stay at sea as I said is moot. Just trying to get anyone at all to do the job nowadays is so difficult that no one really cares what sex they are - I guess its like sexual equality through desperation - just like the war

jmcg
24th June 2009, 22:22
Did Buries Markes not have female cooks in some of their ships in the mid and late 60s?

J

benjidog
25th June 2009, 00:10
Judging by some of the recent comments on this thread, some of you guys would presumably have sympathy with the views of the Taleban. :)

I could understand it, to an extent, from people who have been retired for some time, but those of you still at sea ....... are you living in a different century to the rest of us or just misogynists?

The word "dinosaur" comes to mind for some reason. Sadly this kind of view exists in other spheres of life as well.

MARINEJOCKY
25th June 2009, 00:44
I also called little guys, wimpy, but I do not hear any of them complaining about my post.

I usually find when I get called names on this site it is alot stronger than "Jackass" so I thank you for that, however I still go with what I wrote.

I was pretty fit and strong and could stay up for days only stopping for cat naps of a few minutes during the night and I could never see a women of the kind that I would be interested in being able to do the physical work along with the heat and dirt and then the strength you needed to do the actual work.

Now go and read my post again, I said in that post and again above that the women I would like to see on a ship etc and also wimpy little guys could not keep up with the work either. In my repair team I could only afford to have guys like myself that got the job done.

No doubt there are wimpy little guys and women out there who are more than capable of doing the less physical work or sitting in control rooms which we were also able to do but all around I do not think women could do our jobs then or now.

oh and by the way, I promoted a girl last year to be a technical director in one of the companies I am involved in and she also calls me a jackass or alot worse on a regular basis.

SM, the stuff is easy to come by if you look around, some of the best was about half way between ayrshire and arran and about 600 foot down (*))

James_C
25th June 2009, 01:37
Judging by some of the recent comments on this thread, some of you guys would presumably have sympathy with the views of the Taleban. :)
I could understand it, to an extent, from people who have been retired for some time, but those of you still at sea ....... are you living in a different century to the rest of us or just misogynists?
The word "dinosaur" comes to mind for some reason. Sadly this kind of view exists in other spheres of life as well.

Brian,
The reason for the opposition of many has nothing to do with either opposing equal rights or technical competence, it's the emotional problems it brings. When I say emotional problems, they're caused just as much by one sex as the other and it affects the job in hand.
In the Royal Navy, female sailors are banned from serving on RN submarines for the exact same reason.
Conditions on your average merchant ship today are not that much different from life onboard a submarine - long periods of isolation away from home, no shore leave, a close knit crew working in a historically masculine job and very limited contact with the outside world.
There's no point in getting too specific as individuals will only get upset.

surfaceblow
25th June 2009, 02:11
I have sailed with a lot of females. For the most part they did there jobs that were required of them. At least on American Ships brawn is not required. The Health and Welfare people would be wondering why the team lift posters were not up or the rule not being enforced. Along with the required rest periods. The normal onboard time is four to six months with vacations being any where from 15 per 30 to day for day.

The one exception was a female wiper that did not want to help with the connection of the potable water hose because it was raining outside. One of the people at the gangway asked her if she was the wicked witch of the North and was afraid of melting if she got wet. The four sets of Raingear was hanging up by the gangway. The incident took four hours of investigation and paper work to resolve the mess.

Joe

JoK
25th June 2009, 03:52
oh and by the way, I promoted a girl last year to be a technical director in one of the companies I am involved in and she also calls me a jackass or alot worse on a regular basis.


Is that right..how generous. I happen to be Technical Superintedent in my Company.
I despise sexist comments from anyone and having some individual referring to hard working woman as dykes is beyond. I don't give a rats ass about wimpy guys, because I know damn well there is not one man out there who remotely considers themself wimpy.
As for length of time, I merely worked 120 days in the Arctic. Moderate time in the scheme of things I am sure.

MARINEJOCKY
25th June 2009, 12:49
I did not excuse "wimpy" guys and un-like alot of other guys out there if a woman could not do the job exactly the same as us why should I make an excuse for her.

I am all for team work and there was no way I could get the work done without the various teams I worked with however if I had to stop what I was doing to go and lift something or do something that I had asked a women to do and that I knew a man could do, that person whether it be a women or a wimpy guy would be off the team.

Would we have to make further excuses for a few days every month and try being pregnant and working in "the artic" or 120 degree temp's. Which company are going to risk sending a woman away on a 5 month trip if she was 2 or 3 months pregnant.

What about women who spent years learning how to shop and do their nails & hair and then all of a sudden there is none of that. I think the majority of girls would find it very hard to leave their comfort zone of having girls around them and although the romance of going off to sea may sound good I think once they get out there the reality sets in and they go ashore.

Satanic Mechanic
25th June 2009, 18:23
Judging by some of the recent comments on this thread, some of you guys would presumably have sympathy with the views of the Taleban. :)

I could understand it, to an extent, from people who have been retired for some time, but those of you still at sea ....... are you living in a different century to the rest of us or just misogynists?

The word "dinosaur" comes to mind for some reason. Sadly this kind of view exists in other spheres of life as well.

Jim pretty much answered this but the sad truth is if you put one female on a vessel with 20 men for 5 months without a break - somewhere along the line there will be trouble even if the lassie has behaved herself impecably and if she hasn't then it can be open warfare - I'm serious, I have seen knives and broken bottles used because of this!!!!!!!!!

Don't get me wrong I would never ban them or anything and if they are on board then I get on with it but by preference and for a quiet life I am happier with an all male compliment. I would imagine things would be very different on a large compliment vessel with frequent port calls but for a VLCC or similar it is not an uncommon point of view.

Bill Davies
25th June 2009, 19:25
Jim pretty much answered this but the sad truth is if you put one female on a vessel with 20 men for 5 months without a break - somewhere along the line there will be trouble even if the lassie has behaved herself impecably and if she hasn't then it can be open warfare - I'm serious, I have seen knives and broken bottles used because of this!!!!!!!!!

Don't get me wrong I would never ban them or anything and if they are on board then I get on with it but by preference and for a quiet life I am happier with an all male compliment. I would imagine things would be very different on a large compliment vessel with frequent port calls but for a VLCC or similar it is not an uncommon point of view.

Very much confirms my suspicions raised in my previous on this thread

MARINEJOCKY
25th June 2009, 20:12
I went to join one ship and was told I had to go to the London Office before flying out. This was unusual as I was a 2/E and the only ones "invited" to the office at that time were captains & C/E's.

Once there I got this big lecture about joining a ship that had a female 3/O onboard and the company expected me to behave.

Once onboard the ship I met Allision for the second time, she had been a cadet on a ship I did a coastal trip on, and just about the first thing that she told me was the harrassment she was getting from all of the married guys on board.

I hope I helped her as we hung out together all of the time and everybody thought we were an item so the married guys backed off. I was even warned by the old man but we were just good friends.

It was quite funny at first as I would go to the bridge using the outside stairway and would come up to see at least one guy on each bridge wing and another inside. Allison saw the funny side as well and we would stand up close together just to p1ss the others off.

She did a great job but that was as a 3/0 and although the hours may have been extensive at times the physical work was not that hard and she often commented on how she could never work down below.

JoK
25th June 2009, 22:54
Jim pretty much answered this but the sad truth is if you put one female on a vessel with 20 men for 5 months without a break - somewhere along the line there will be trouble even if the lassie has behaved herself impecably and if she hasn't then it can be open warfare - I'm serious, I have seen knives and broken bottles used because of this!!!!!!!!!

Don't get me wrong I would never ban them or anything and if they are on board then I get on with it but by preference and for a quiet life I am happier with an all male compliment. I would imagine things would be very different on a large compliment vessel with frequent port calls but for a VLCC or similar it is not an uncommon point of view.

Yeah, I guess 110 men on a ship without a port of call for 4-5 months is a little different.
But then again we had a little thing called DISCIPLINE.

Satanic Mechanic
25th June 2009, 23:13
As opposed to Human Nature and yes you are correct 110 men is significantly different.

Look JoK some do it and carry it off and well done to them but some don't. If you were to give me a preference I would prefer an all male ship but that does not mean I would not sail with or not allow females to work on the ship - they are more than welcome but as a personal preference based on experience I prefer sailing without them. No offense intended and no prejudices offered.

MARINEJOCKY
25th June 2009, 23:52
SM, you are going soft, Females would be more than welcome in any job on a ship except in the engine room. Now some ferries, research vessels and cruise ships you could, get away with having women or wimpy guys down below but on a real ship you need some muscle down there.

110 men on a ship, sounds like alot of tree huggers floating around looking for a Japanese whaler or two. If we had that many on the gas boats I would say bring as many women onboard as possible so I would have something to do.

MARINEJOCKY
25th June 2009, 23:53
SM, casting

Derek Roger
26th June 2009, 01:06
MJ and S M . I think you have totaly missed the point of the thread and appear to want to argue and enjoy talking rubbish and feminine stuff with Jok .

Jo has a combinded Chiefs Ticket ; has been in the business for over 30 years from apprentice to Chief then Super and now Tech Director .
The Canadian Arctic is an unforgiving place at best and the work is tough .
Jo has gone from apprentice to the top not because of gender but due to ability during all of her service .
I doubt either of you are as well qualified or have as much experience .Certainly not in Arctic Operations and rescue .
Time for you lads to chill out and go somewhere else for an argument if that is what turns you on .


Derek

JoK
26th June 2009, 01:46
Thanks Roger.

Now that I did my posturing, I agree there are people, both men and woman not cut out to go to sea. I have seen a lot of crap go on, that the individuals should have been fired on the spot, both for out and out harassment and abuse and sexual overtures. That goes both ways.
There are no favours done when a woman is put on a ship with no idea what they are getting into and how to deal with it. There are also no favors when management chooses to turn a blind eye to goings on. I have also seen woman taken off the ship and on the next chopper for being stupid. I have also seen guys damm near get fired for sexual misconduct.

The point is, you do not stand there and tell a person they can't do the job because they are not capable and if they are doing it it is because they have sexual orientation issues. That is beyond stupid.

I worked on a pretty interesting OBO and by the end of 2 months, never mind 4, I was pretty stunned with exhaustion. But you know what, so were my co-workers. Sure there were jobs I couldn't do, but there were jobs I was doing that the guys couldn't so it evened out. That's were a good 2nd comes in to the picture, doesn't it?

MARINEJOCKY
26th June 2009, 03:34
I am going to quote a paragraph or two and maybe you want to explain what you mean because with only 37 years experience I do not get what you are saying.

"The point is, you do not stand there and tell a person they can't do the job because they are not capable and if they are doing it it is because they have sexual orientation issues. That is beyond stupid."

and

"Sure there were jobs I couldn't do, but there were jobs I was doing that the guys couldn't so it evened out."

So what were those jobs, I changed pistons and flogged up head bolts and I could also cook, iron and clean besides knitting and making matts from rope, I can type and back in the day could take a sight. I made extra money cutting hair and could sow on a button.

My container ship always ran on time, my costs were the lowest in the fleet and you could eat your food from the bilges that I cleaned personally.

Many guys did the same if not more than me and yet we also saw the preferential treatment handed out to women.

Did my first trip as 2/E on a gas tanker in the Baltic during the winter of 1978 and which was recorded as one of the coldest in history. Stuck numerous times in ice and had to learn real quick about operating a ship in those conditions. Is minus 43 degree's experience enough. Then again it was minus 41 in Northern Canada one winter and we were drifting around for 7 days. At least I got all of the liners changed without loosing any charter time in that period.

As for missing the point of the thread, I think so many get blinded by my forthright views and maybe those of SM as well they do not read what I actually write.

I have said I believe there could be a place for women on certain types of ships and where JoK mentions having 110 men on board one I would guess that is some kind of research ship with probably alot smaller engines or machinery parts.

I would have loved having that many folk onboard instead of a full complement of something like 32 to 38 on a British Flag ship down to 17 on a FOC container ship. On those FOC ships we had to take our chances on getting a good 2/E and most of the time our luck was out so we just had to do it all ourselves.

As for the thread itself, I have tried to voice my views but yet again you do not read them. Why would a shipping company spend thousands on training a women and then take the chance of her going off on a ship when she was pregnant at say 2 or 3 months. She has to do a 4 or 5 month trip and be physically able to do the work from the first day onboard until pay-off.

Would she sue the company if she lost the baby at say 7 months because she had to use the flogging hammer as the hydraulic gear is bust or would she expect a man to do her job because she was pregnant.

Now if that women had no interest in men and therefore no chance of getting pregnant that would be a different story unless of course she was in a relationship with a dyke and wanted to get pregnant by artificial means.

So we go around to my first post, if there are women to be on ships a dyke would probably be the best bet unless it was an English Dyke because I understand they are to get the same pregnancy leave as there partners now.

and of course I say this with no malice or prejudice as it seems if one also writes that in ones posts you do not get attacked. (*))

benjidog
26th June 2009, 15:56
Going back to Cap'n Pete's original question, it seems to me that one way of improving things would be to make sure that people with views such as MJ and Satan are weeded out during the selection process.

Satanic Mechanic
26th June 2009, 16:27
As usual I have not done myself any favours there, just to clarify folks, I have sailed with many females and more often than not enjoyed the experience and am fully aware that they are capable of doing the job and I was over the moon when one of my ex apprentices got her Chiefs job. My only reservation is from a social point of view where as a preference I prefer all male compliments but it is in no way essential or am I in anyway unhappy when it is mixed.(Thumb)

Getting back to the original point and expanding on it

How can you get anyone to go to sea in the first place these days?

JoK
26th June 2009, 17:00
OMG MJ, your post is hilarious at the end. However, I think in the US, whatever you are smoking is illegal!!

Bill Davies
26th June 2009, 17:30
seems to me that one way of improving things would be to make sure that people with views such are weeded out during the selection process.

No wish to comment on anyone in particulars views save to say that people who have views which may be distasteful on any topic are usually very good at hiding same. It would not work.

Pat McCardle
26th June 2009, 19:30
I've sailed with 9 females over the years. 3 are now holders of Class 1 Master Mariner tickets, 1 is sailing as Master. As for the other 6? I believe one jumped ship in Melbourne in 1980 for a customs guy other than that I don't know. All were well capable of doing the job asked of them & they gave as good as they got, which brought respect from most men on board, needless to say there was always 1 or 2 men who thought they were of the 'Hollywood' type & were a bit upset that they were not getting the attention, from the girls, they thought their looks should get.

MARINEJOCKY
27th June 2009, 02:23
I suggest you all look at post # 37.

SM, do not worry about being "de-selected" as that comment came from some one who may have been once or twice on the Govan ferry and has never been to sea in his life. In fact I wonder if he knows what an engine room is really like.

Jok, I am glad to bring some joy into your life. As for smoking never have and never will but then again there was a time in............, could not smoke due to H & S reg's and I had a bad sniff at that time !!!!!!

Derek Roger
27th June 2009, 02:41
No wish to comment on anyone in particulars views save to say that people who have views which may be distasteful on any topic are usually very good at hiding same.

A very good point Bill ; people can pass an interview and then turn out to be real Pillocks .
We see some of that here ; it is fortunate that most of them do not get through the net .

Regards Derek