Cape and Lady vessels

tgar
21st July 2009, 09:29
Hi!
I'm new to this, but I'm looking for information on ships sailing in the 1950s. They were the Cape Rodney, Cape Hawke, Cape Howe, Cape Franklin and Cape Grenville, Lady McGowan, Lady Anstruther and Lady Dorothy. I'd like to find pictures of them and any info on their voyages. I'm doing family history and Mum's cousin, Albert Davidson, was on these ships, before becoming a Trinity House pilot. He was first mate on the Cape ships and second mate on the others. I'd also like to find out about his sailings before 28/4/1952 when he joined the Rodney,especially during the war. He was always in the Merchant Navy, but where?
I hope someone can help point me in the right direction.
tgar

K urgess
21st July 2009, 11:27
Welcome aboard.
If you put the names into the Miramar search engine you will get some basic details of the vessels and their history.
http://www.miramarshipindex.org.nz/
Regards

Roger Griffiths
21st July 2009, 22:22
Hi!
I'm new to this, but I'm looking for information on ships sailing in the 1950s. They were the Cape Rodney, Cape Hawke, Cape Howe, Cape Franklin and Cape Grenville, Lady McGowan, Lady Anstruther and Lady Dorothy. I'd like to find pictures of them and any info on their voyages. I'm doing family history and Mum's cousin, Albert Davidson, was on these ships, before becoming a Trinity House pilot. He was first mate on the Cape ships and second mate on the others. I'd also like to find out about his sailings before 28/4/1952 when he joined the Rodney,especially during the war. He was always in the Merchant Navy, but where?
I hope someone can help point me in the right direction.
tgar

His full name, date and place of birth would be a big help. I can find one Albert Davidson born 10/1/1923 in Wick. Discharge A number R281572. Ring any bells?

Roger

tgar
22nd July 2009, 10:49
Hi Roger!
That's him! Where did you find him? What's a Discharge A number?
I was talking to his widow last night and she mentioned he was on a Norwegian ship(Salveson??) in 1946 and it went to South Georgia. He was the only British sailor aboard apparently. She also said that some of the ships in my previous post were owned by Tate & Lyle.
Thanks for your help.
tgar

tgar
22nd July 2009, 10:51
Thanks Marconi Sahib for the website. I've found some info, but will have to go back and look at it again.
tgar

bluemoon
22nd July 2009, 11:47
The vessels prefixed Cape were part of the Lyle Shipping company. In the 70's they joined with Hogarths and, for a short time also Lamberts of London to form Scottish Ship Management. They have an active website where many of the ex company members, both sea and office staff contribute. This should probably be your first "port of call". The website is :- www.scottishshipmanagement.com

Hope this will be of some help to you.

best regards,

bluemoon

Roger Griffiths
22nd July 2009, 20:46
Hi Roger!
That's him! Where did you find him? What's a Discharge A number?


His Merchant Navy Records are in the British National Archive. If you live near Kew you can obtain them by visiting, if not, take the following steps.

Go To
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=-3353831&CATLN=7&Highlight=%2CR281572&accessmethod=0

Hit Request this in the top right corner of the page.

Ask for a digital estimate

In the first box ask for
"The seamans pouch of Albert Davidson, R281572. born Wick 10/1/1923."

Above the second box where it says catalogue reference, Type BT382/438
Type in the second box.

Please copy "The CRS10 of Albert Davidson, R281572. born Wick 10/1/1923."

They will give you an estimate for copying. Should be less than 30. Maybe take a couple of days.

EXPLANATIONS
His Seamans Pouch may contain his MN ID card with a photo, albeit a mugshot, together with any certificates he obtained and various miscellaneous personal documents.

His CRS 10 Should give you the names of all the ships he sailed on together with dates and places of engagement and discharge.

His Discharge A number is his personal ID number.

Roger

PS His Medal listing is here
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=4470808&queryType=1&resultcount=1
Cost 3.50 direct

tgar
22nd July 2009, 23:30
Thanks Roger. I live in France, so I have requested an estimate from the National Archives online and have also downloaded his medal listing... but what does it mean?!! There are letters and five of them are circled, so I'm guessing that means 5 medals, but which ones?
Thanks again,
tgar

tgar
22nd July 2009, 23:32
Hi bluemoon
Thanks for the info. I had a look on the site but the dates of construction for the ships seem to be later than when Albert was on board, so I'm a little confused...
tgar

Roger Griffiths
23rd July 2009, 01:39
Thanks Roger. I live in France, so I have requested an estimate from the National Archives online and have also downloaded his medal listing... but what does it mean?!! There are letters and five of them are circled, so I'm guessing that means 5 medals, but which ones?
Thanks again,
tgar

tgar,
Could you post his medal listing as an attachment. There are a number of medal experts who use this site who will be able to interpret the details for you.

Looking back to your original post.
I'd also like to find out about his sailings before 28/4/1952 when he joined the Rodney,especially during the war. He was always in the Merchant Navy, but where?

The only RODNEY around at that time was HMS RODNEY. Did he serve in the Royal Navy before embarking on a MN career?
His medal listing would suggest that he served in the MN during WW2. However, If he joined the Merchant Navy after 1946 then his CRS 10 would be in
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=8125561&CATLN=6&accessmethod=5
Let us know what you get back from the National Archive and we can take it from there.

Roger

tgar
23rd July 2009, 09:24
Hi Roger,
Here's the pdf file the National Archives sent. Hope someone can make some sense out of it, because I can't!
It was the Cape Rodney from 28/4/52 to 3/6/52 and he was first mate. His widow showed me a book with his sailings from then on until he joined Trinity House and I took photos. I've tried to make it smaller to post a copy of that page.
He was always Merchant Navy, but his brother (John, b 1904) was Royal Navy and was killed in action in 1942 or before. I'll have to find out about that too...
Thanks again
tgar

K urgess
23rd July 2009, 12:26
I think the following looks most likely -
1939 = 1939/45 Star
AT = Atlantic Star
AF = Africa Star
PA = Pacific Star
BU = Burma Star
FR = France Star
W/M = War Medal/ Defence medal
IT = Italy Star or clasp
CL = clasps to the star above.
Clasps were awarded to certain medals when two stars were authorised. I.e., the Burma clasp was awarded if you received the Pacific Star or the Italy clasp if you got the Europe Star, etc.

Regards

tgar
23rd July 2009, 22:05
Roger,
Sorry - the brother was James Robert Davidson (born 20/12/1919) and he went down on the HMS Patroclus in about November 1941. He was in the RNVR.

tgar
23rd July 2009, 22:10
Thanks Marconi Sahib for making sense of that! Is there by any chance a website out there which has pictures???
tgar

K urgess
23rd July 2009, 22:28
Thanks Marconi Sahib for making sense of that! Is there by any chance a website out there which has pictures???
tgar

Here's the official website with some pictures
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceFor/Veterans/Medals/WorldWarIiMedalSummary.htm
Regards

methc
23rd July 2009, 23:03
Hi!
I'm new to this, but I'm looking for information on ships sailing in the 1950s. They were the Cape Rodney, Cape Hawke, Cape Howe, Cape Franklin and Cape Grenville, Lady McGowan, Lady Anstruther and Lady Dorothy. I'd like to find pictures of them and any info on their voyages. I'm doing family history and Mum's cousin, Albert Davidson, was on these ships, before becoming a Trinity House pilot. He was first mate on the Cape ships and second mate on the others. I'd also like to find out about his sailings before 28/4/1952 when he joined the Rodney,especially during the war. He was always in the Merchant Navy, but where?
I hope someone can help point me in the right direction.
tgar
I was a cadet aboard the Cape Howe from 1949 to 1950.
There is a photograph of her that I took in San Fransisco here (http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/58413/ppuser/892) Click on the word "here".It is a link.
I also was a Trinity House pilot, London District South.
In which district was Mr.Davidson licensed?

tgar
24th July 2009, 09:20
Hi methc!
Many thanks for the picture.
I don't know what his district was called, but he worked out of the Medway ports and part of his contract was that he had to live on the island of Sheppey. Did you know him?
tgar

tgar
24th July 2009, 09:21
Thanks again Marconi Sahib
tgar

tgar
29th July 2009, 16:05
I received the documents today from the national archives and am posting what seems to be the record of his ships. Can anyone translate what it all means?! What's the column For H? How do I find out where the ships went exactly? Especially during WW2. Is the Norwegian ship mentioned? (doesn't seem to be 1946...)
Sorry for all the questions, but it's most frustrating to have the documents and then not be able to find out what they mean!!
tgar
PS Is there something similar for his brother James Davidson's RNVR career?

K urgess
29th July 2009, 16:11
F or H probably means Foreign or Home Trade.
You need the ship movement cards to find out where they went apart from the signing on and discharge ports.

tgar
29th July 2009, 18:16
That makes sense - I should have thought of that. Thanks.
Ship movement cards? Where would I find those?
tgar

Roger Griffiths
29th July 2009, 18:26
That makes sense - I should have thought of that. Thanks.
Ship movement cards? Where would I find those?
tgar

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/bt389.asp
After WW2 Try Lloyds voyage record cards from the Guildhall Library London.
http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/61788173-C6AA-4C1B-A751-453A99FBEC9B/0/pb_vrc.pdf

Re what Norwegian ship was he on?
CULROSS official number 169207 (which is misspelt Coulross in his CRS 10) was owned by Christian Salvesen who were based in Leith. Christian Salvesen was Norwegian. http://iancoombe.tripod.com/id24.html
The company had interests in the South Atlantic whale fishery after the war but was also involved in general shipping. I am sure others will expand.
I note from his CRS 10 that he was rescued from CORFIRTH official number 163476 by the Norwegian vessel TAUTRA in Feb 1944. I can find no indication that CORFIRTH was the victim of enemy action but it seems she may have been damaged. Her logbooks for 1944 should tell you what went on
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=8235088&CATLN=6&Highlight=%2C163476&accessmethod=0
Roger

tgar
4th August 2009, 11:29
Thanks Roger, that enlightens me on a number of points. The Culross dates would fit, and his widow says he was almost a year on board.

What about the Corfirth logbooks? Could I consult them online or will I have to order them? I can't get to London in person, so the ships record cards will have to wait for the moment unfortunately.

I've been looking at the pictures on www.photoship.co.uk, as I'd like a picture of all the ships he served on. However, there are several photos for most of the ships and they don't all look the same, so how do I know which is the right one?

In the CRS 10 I'm having trouble deciphering some of the ports: what's ES25(Verde), Vcard (Culross) and A'??th(Howe)?

Also, can anyone read and understand the notations at the top of the first document? And what's written in the top right of the other next to Tautra and Fort Astoria?

Another list of questions!! Sorry!!
tgar

Roger Griffiths
5th August 2009, 00:03
Hello
What about the Corfirth logbooks? Could I consult them online or will I have to order them? I can't get to London in person, so the ships record cards will have to wait for the moment unfortunately.

After a little more research, CORFIRTH official number 163476 stuck a mine on12/Feb/1944, 1 mile 170 degrees from Ajaccio. I assumed that the survivors were picked up by the Norwegian vessel TAUTRA. I think this assumption was incorrect.
You can get hold of the logbook of CORFIRTH
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=8235088&CATLN=6&Highlight=%2C163476&accessmethod=0
Use the digital express service and ask for
"The narrative pages in the logbook of the vessel CORFIRTH official number163476 covering the period 1/2/1944 until 25/2/1944, also the pages from the Crew Agreement with the names and details of her crew" This should tell you what happened and give you some personal details. Could you tell what you find, for the record.
You can get the voyage record cards up until mid 1945 via
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/d...line/bt389.asp
They charge 3.50 direct to your PC

I've been looking at the pictures on www.photoship.co.uk, as I'd like a picture of all the ships he served on. However, there are several photos for most of the ships and they don't all look the same, so how do I know which is the right one?
If you could post the vessels you have found photo's of then maybe we can take a looksee.

Roger

tgar
5th August 2009, 08:48
Many thanks, Roger.
I followed the first link and have put in a request for an estimate for the Corfirth logbook. Will keep you posted. However, the second link just says page not found.
The ships in question are the following: SS Cape Franklin, MV Cape Grenville, MV Cape Hawke, Cape Howe, SS Cape Nelson, MV Cape Rodney, SS Cape Sable, SS Cape Wrath, SS Cape York, SS City of Durham, SS Lady Dorothy and MV Lady McGowan. In addition, I haven't found the Fort Astoria, SS Sevilla and MV Lady Anstruther.
tgar

Roger Griffiths
5th August 2009, 09:27
Seems like there is no voyage record card for CORFIRTH. Ask them for pages 20 and 21 of the logbook, it may tell you her recent voyages. It should not cost a lot if you put it with your main enquiry.


Roger

tgar
12th August 2009, 14:35
Have received estimate, but they say the record is only until 12/2/44. What do you think?
tgar

john larder
3rd July 2012, 14:53
I was the Radio Officer on the Cape Rodney voyage to West Coast Canada South America New Zealand and Australia i n early 1949 the Captain was a Mr Davidson if I can be of any assistance to you with information please email me jlarder3@hotmail.com

john larder
3rd July 2012, 14:55
I was the Radio Officer on the Cape Rodney voyage to West Coast Canada South America New Zealand and Australia i n early 1949 the Captain was a Mr Davidson if I can be of any assistance to you with information please email me jlarder3@hotmail.com or johnlarder1@btinternet.com

tgar
3rd July 2012, 21:57
Hello!
Thank you for your message. It was a great surprise! I'm not sure that your Captain Davidson was my cousin though because according to his CRS10 form in 1948 - 1949 he was on the SS Cape SALLE(SABLE??) as 2nd mate. He was then on the Cape Nelson (2nd mate) and Cape York (1st mate), before joining the Cape Rodney in Glasgow in September 1951 also as 1st mate.
Do you by any chance have a photo of the ship? I found a few thumbnails, but they don't all show the same ship and I don't know which is the right one, and of course they are very small!
Could you tell me a bit about life on the ship during a long voyage like that? I have to admit that I can't even begin to imagine what it was like.
tgar

tgar
5th January 2013, 23:04
Further to the exchange with John (no I haven't forgotten the photo - it's still not finished... sorry!) I have been looking through some stuff I retrieved after my cousin's death when papers were being thrown out. I came up with what looks like a section of the ship's hold, coloured in and marked with details of the cargo and tonnage. There's one for the Cape Rodney and another two (duplicates) for the Cape Franklin, and a third with no ship info. Rodney is April 51 (and that means the info I had from his file can't be quite right! I thought he joined it in Sept. 51 (?HUH)) and Franklin November 52.
Would any of you be interested if I scanned them? They're long and narrow so it would need to be in sections...
tgar