Ships or Boats?

Alistair Macnab
26th July 2009, 19:36
We all know that a merchant vessel is a SHIP and that a BOAT is a craft that is carried on a ship but I posit the concept that PROFESSIONAL seafarers would call a ship a boat as a term of affection as in "Bank Boat" which is pure allitertation but also a term that denotes a special relationship rather than a misuse of the correct descriptive noun.

non descript
26th July 2009, 19:48
Very true; we do have Banana Boats, and indeed Gas Boats *, both are a term of endearment rather than anything else, so it is a bit of affection and sometimes a bit of alliteration.

* Interestingly those in the sub-species are often referred to as "Pressure Ships"

surfaceblow
26th July 2009, 20:26
You also have Lake Boats, Ore Boats and submarines are usually referred has boats.

I was taught that boats are upon ships.

K urgess
26th July 2009, 20:32
I think it boils down to the fact that if you sail on 'em you can call 'em whatever you like.
But if you're a "lubber" stick to the official explanation.
Watch out for the argument to start now. [=P]

Johnnietwocoats
26th July 2009, 21:26
Then there was the SS Divis in Belfast......Affectionately known as the "Shite Boat" as it carried sewage down the Lough....JTC

Charlie Stitt
26th July 2009, 21:51
NO John, the Divis was a BANANA BOAT[=P]

Jan the lightship man
26th July 2009, 21:55
And then there is the discussion about light-VESSELS or light-SHIPS..
I know they are officially called light-vessels, but then are known as light-ships by most.

In maritime law they are referred to "floating navigational aids"

What's in a name..

Jan ;-)

Charlie Stitt
26th July 2009, 22:24
JTC, two Paddies standing on the shores of Belfast Lough, one points out towards three small ships, which one is the Divis, he asks his friend, to be sure its not the first one, and its not the second one, no its the ''TURD'' one he replies.[=P]

Klaatu83
26th July 2009, 22:42
I have often heard container ships being referred to as "box-boats" though, considering the huge size of many of them, I always assumed that to be a simple matter of poetic alliteration. However, I understand that submarines are always referred to by their crews as "boats", regardless of their size.

sparkie2182
27th July 2009, 00:41
Interestingly, submarines have never been referred to as ships..........

by anyone.

lesbryan
27th July 2009, 00:54
We all know that a merchant vessel is a SHIP and that a BOAT is a craft that is carried on a ship but I posit the concept that PROFESSIONAL seafarers would call a ship a boat as a term of affection as in "Bank Boat" which is pure allitertation but also a term that denotes a special relationship rather than a misuse of the correct descriptive noun.

What is a submarine? .It is not a ship itis not a boat (realy)but alas it is affectionately known as a boat.My point is that it is a term of affection with with those who serve as is said bank boats banana etc .:confused:

Splinter
27th July 2009, 01:06
Or Skin Boat as banana boats were often called.

surfaceblow
27th July 2009, 02:14
Submarines are referred to as "boats" for historical reasons because vessels deployed from a ship are referred to as boats. The first submarines were launched in such a manner. The English term U-boat for a German submarine comes from the German word for submarine, U-Boot, itself an abbreviation for Unterseeboot ("undersea boat").

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine

Another truism of the submarine that all others are called targets no matter if
they are called ships or boats.

Joe

hughesy
27th July 2009, 03:44
In Hull for as long as I can remember. They always refered to The MN as
"Big Boating" they would say yeah hes goes to sea hes on "Big Boats' as opposed to being a "Fisherman". Or yeah "I'm off Big Boating"
Did anywhere else in the UK refer to being at sea as "Big Boating" or is this only a Hull saying?.

all the best(Thumb)
Hughesy

Charlie Stitt
27th July 2009, 14:10
. The ones I like best are the gravy boats.(Jester) Sorry Alistair.

rickles23
27th July 2009, 14:55
Hi,


"We all know that a merchant vessel is a SHIP and that a BOAT is a craft that is carried on a ship"

So what do you call a Navy ship on a heavy lifter, apart from a wreck...:)

Regards

bones140
27th July 2009, 15:19
A RN Commodore said (on radio 2!) that a ship leans over outwards when turning and boat leans inwards when turning.

chadburn
27th July 2009, 16:08
Hi,


"We all know that a merchant vessel is a SHIP and that a BOAT is a craft that is carried on a ship"

So what do you call a Navy ship on a heavy lifter, apart from a wreck...:)

Regards

Plenty of overtime in the shiprepair yard(Thumb)

Robert D
27th July 2009, 20:26
Ship or boat? When you think about it, how often do you use the term ship when talking seaman to seaman? More like tankboat, iron-ore boat, coaster etc, or by the company name ,a Johnson Line, a Port Line. In the days of sail I suspect it was more a question of Barque or Schooner etc. But always "She". How often does a tugboat hang in a pair of davits? Have myself used the term "ship" here on SN thinking it was the norm, but it is difficult to get used to.
Regards
Robert D.

Charlie Stitt
28th July 2009, 12:23
Great stuff Robert D, we don't see many tugBOATS leaning inwards when turning, or as you say , hanging off davits.(Thumb)

Sister Eleff
28th July 2009, 13:34
According to a submariner I once knew, there were only 2 types of vessels; submarines and targets (EEK)

McCloggie
28th July 2009, 13:55
In the RN the vessel was always referred to as "the ship" - as in going back to "the ship" after a run ashore. Having said that, the RN referred to everything (apart from submarines) as the "ship" - even shore establishments (stone frigates) were known as "the ship".

On my latest job with an FPSO, everyone talked about "the boat" - moving onboard the boat, going down to the boat, meetings on the boat etc.

I agree that "the boat" is like a nickname - you and your friends can use it but strangers should use your proper name unless told otherwise.

McC

Charlie Stitt
28th July 2009, 14:03
To be serious for once, I am going to enlighten you all. A SHIP is indeed a large BOAT, and, my BOAT which is ten meters in length is indeed a small SHIP, How about that then ?

rickles23
28th July 2009, 14:31
Chadburn I will pay that one.
Regards

dall
9th May 2010, 12:09
Being a non limey - i would like to know the meaning of the title of a tv serial
called " when the boat comes in" can anyone enlight me ?

Pat Thompson
9th May 2010, 12:15
Greetings Dall,

A "Geordie" (Tynesider) expression suggesting all will be well "when the boat comes in". I is immortalised in the eponymous song. Have a listen and look HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utkMQJeiK50)

Winebuff
9th May 2010, 16:30
With my luck when my "boat comes in " I will be stuck at the airport under a dust cloud.

Klaatu83
9th May 2010, 16:49
"Lakers" (i.e., those who work on commercial vessels plying the North American Great Lakes) refer to their vessels as "boats", even though many of them exceed a length of 700 feet. Also, although I have never been an submariner, I believe they also habitually refer to their vessels as "boats".

I have, however, spent many years in the container ship industry, where the term "box-boat" had long been in common usage as a slang term for a container ship.

Incidentally, the original term "ship" referred specifically to a particular type of large sailing vessel having three or more masts, all of which were square-rigged. Apparently that particular combination of hull and rig proved to be more efficient than any other for large, ocean-going vessels, and became more common than any other. As a result, the term gradually became commonly associated with all large ocean-going vessels, regardless of rig, and whether under sail or power.

barrinoz
10th May 2010, 02:38
A ship is a thing of beauty of which we keep treasured memories. A boat is a hole in the water into which is poured copious amounts of money.
barrinoz.

John Dryden
10th May 2010, 02:51
Unless the hold is full!

Dickyboy
10th May 2010, 03:00
Another case where the term Boat is used instead of ship is with some ferries. One can have a ''Ferry Boat'' but never a ferry ship, and ferries can be bigger than many deep sea ships.
Usually used, I think, on short haul ferry crossings within harbours. If the harbour is say, New York then the Ferry Boats can be quite large. A North sea ferry wouldn't be termed a Ferry Boat, or even the Isle of Wight ferry, but the Woolwich or Gosport Ferries might be termed Ferry Boats.
I used to ponder whether the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth were really just very big ferries, as they too crossed a stretch of water, carrying passengers to a timetable. Not that they could be termed Boats though. I decided that they were most definately Ships, and therefore not Ferries :o

John Dryden
10th May 2010, 03:46
I can see your point there Dickyboy but the North Sea Ferries are indeed ferries as advertised.I know loads of seamen and they say I,ve worked on the ferries so I know exactly what they mean.Scheduled trips across the Atlantic however are a different kettle of fish and in my opion the same thing at a moderate pace unless the Blue Ribband was at stake!

Dickyboy
10th May 2010, 04:33
Sorry John, I didn't explain myself very well. I agree entirely that North Sea Ferries are indeed ferries. It's the term Ferry ''BOAT'' that I don't think would apply to North Sea type ferries :o.

lakercapt
10th May 2010, 05:05
On the "Great Lakes" all commercial carriers are referred to as "boat".
Some in the US fleet are over 1000 ft in length and 100 ft beam. Hardly pleasure craft.
We never thought it derogatory to call what you sailed on as a boat

kauvaka
10th May 2010, 05:44
The New Zealand Customs Act 1966 defined "ship" as any kind of vessel used in navigation, not propelled by oars only, and "boat" as any vessel other than a ship. Does that cover them?

NoR
10th May 2010, 11:04
Ships and Boats are always 'she' not 'it'.

dall
10th May 2010, 15:11
Thks Pat thomson I am further enlighthend

chadburn
10th May 2010, 15:25
Ships and Boats are always 'she' not 'it'.

Except German which are "He"

Dickyboy
11th May 2010, 14:35
The New Zealand Customs Act 1966 defined "ship" as any kind of vessel used in navigation, not propelled by oars only, and "boat" as any vessel other than a ship. Does that cover them?
Do you have Lifeships instead of Lifeboats then? (Jester)

David Williams
11th May 2010, 15:04
Hi Surfaceblow.
I heard or read somewwhere,that in the Royal Navy
all surface craft are refered to as "SHIPS" and all
Submarines are refered to as "BOATS".

Dave Williams(R583900)

Tony D
11th May 2010, 15:35
I thought the protocol was A Ship could carry a Boat,but a Boat could not carry a Ship,agree the term boat applied to a ship is mere slang.
Sailed with a bloke once who refered to the ship as a Crate,think his dad was in Bomber Command.
:)

holmsey
11th May 2010, 18:12
Greetings

When I was on Shaw Savill's Cretic it was affectionately referred to as one of the 'C' boats, but I was confused during my first trip on the Icenic to hear it referred to as "a good 'C' boat" only to discover that what was being said was "it's a good sea boat"

China hand
11th May 2010, 19:22
The Blue Star Line South America post war passenger ships were often called "the A Boats" (Argentina Star??). We called them "Blood Boats". Chilled and frozen underdeck, the "bloods" in the cabins.

Ian J. Huckin
11th May 2010, 21:02
I thought the protocol was A Ship could carry a Boat,but a Boat could not carry a Ship,agree the term boat applied to a ship is mere slang.
Sailed with a bloke once who refered to the ship as a Crate,think his dad was in Bomber Command.
:)

I go along with Tony. I always heard that you could get a boat on a ship but you could not get a ship on a boat.

Then there are Loveboats and Hardships and enough beer to float a boat when ships pass in the night....who started this thread anyway????....he has a lot to answer for! (==D)

kewl dude
12th May 2010, 08:05
Ship or boat, see attached image.

Greg Hayden

Dickyboy
12th May 2010, 08:23
I believe the term "Ship" originally refferred to ''Ship Rigged'' sailing vessels. When sailing vessels ceased to trade, and were taken over by steam vessels, I imagine that the term ''Ship'' just stuck, and is used as a general term for most ocean going commercial and military vessels.

Billieboy
12th May 2010, 10:08
Ship or boat, see attached image.

Greg Hayden

Great how it works, isn't it! This is, if I'm thinking right, the first subersible built for Wijsmuller in 1974/5

Pat Kennedy
12th May 2010, 10:33
Vessels of the Blue Funnel Line were always referred to 'China Boats' in their home port of Liverpool/Birkenhead.
Conversely, ships belonging to COSCO were called 'Commie Boats'
Ships of the Henderson Line were called 'Paddy Boats' , and MacAndrews fine little ships were called 'Plonk Boats'
Regards,
Pat(Thumb)

RayL
12th May 2010, 13:26
This question was touched upon during today's chat on 'Midweek' (Radio 4) and Tom Cunliffe (whose series 'The Boats That Built Britain' is currently on TV) remarked that after an evening's booze in a pub, he was apt to remark to the crew of the little yacht they were sailing, "Better get back to the ship!"

His point was that the words "ship" and "boat" are interchangeable.

Dickyboy
12th May 2010, 17:41
A ship rigged ship.....

Description :
A ship rigged vessel is square rigged on all three masts

From a website called '' Heritage-Ships ''

purserjuk
13th May 2010, 12:17
I'm sure all ex-Elder Dempster Pursers' staff will remember the "K" boats!

John Powell

Satanic Mechanic
13th May 2010, 12:26
Hi Surfaceblow.
I heard or read somewwhere,that in the Royal Navy
all surface craft are refered to as "SHIPS" and all
Submarines are refered to as "BOATS".

Dave Williams(R583900)


According to some submariners I have met it is further subdivided into 'BOATS' and 'TARGETS'

jmcg
14th May 2010, 12:09
And the shi* boats plying the Mersey with crap from Manchester. Same on the Thames carrying the crap from the Home Counties. Always maintained and presented to a meticulous standard.

J

Alistair Macnab
22nd May 2010, 20:00
Culled from The Bank Line House Magazine, Spring 1975:

To the Owner, a ship is a costly risk which maximizes his debt-equity ratio and which is bound to cause negative cash flows;
To the Marine Superintendents, a new ship is something far more advanced than they ever served on;
To the Banker who made the loan for the building of the ship, he sees it as a very large chunk of cash;
To the Underwriter, it is bound to wipe out his whole year's premium income if it has a fire in the engine room;
To the Ship Broker, it is something which is never in quite the right position to obtain the highest prevailing charter rates;
and to the Seafarer.....
A ship is either good or bad but never as good as his last one!

Joe C
23rd May 2010, 19:56
We were in Mombasa on the Fleetbank,1957,when we two Apprentices put on our best whites went to the Yacht Club and took out a dinghy on Kilindini Harbour.
All went well until we convinced each other that the harbour was shark-infested so every time the dinghy heeled we spilled the wind (in more ways than one).
To make life even more hazardous, as we were creeping back to the Yacht Club,a very large vessel entered the harbour.It was so close that in order to read the name we had to look straight upwards and move our heads from left to right.I'll never forget the name,it was the" Ferdinand de Lessops"(I hope,it's been a long time).
The point I'm labouring is that there was no doubt that we were in a boat and nearly run down by a bloody great ship!

jimthehat
23rd May 2010, 22:11
have many fond memories whilst apprentice and third mate of going to the yacht club and taking out a dinghy and then later a night out at the copper kettle and ending the night on a high note by visiting the star bar.
jim

cueball44
23rd May 2010, 22:59
''when the boat come's in'' means when your luck changes for the better,or what you have strived for come's to fruition,something like when the big payday arrive's, 'I THINK',win,'cueball44'

Charlie Stitt
13th June 2010, 17:16
A cruise liner has just passed down the North Channel this afternoon, quite a big ship, but wait, is it a ship? for on her side in large letters were the letters PEACE BOAT.(?HUH)

stein
13th June 2010, 18:04
The coastal passenger vessels here in Norway has traditionally been referred to as boats. Dampbåt (steamboat) or Lokalbåt (Local-boat actually, but the English connotations are a bit different, something like coastal passenger vessel). That could imaginably be because those who named them thus were lubbers, with no need for pride in the vessels? I've never heard a deepwater trader called a boat.

Burned Toast
13th June 2010, 18:34
(Whaaa)Part timers may have sailed on (Thumb)boats


I Sailed on ships(Smoke)

Ron Stringer
13th June 2010, 22:57
A cruise liner has just passed down the North Channel this afternoon, quite a big ship, but wait, is it a ship? for on her side in large letters were the letters PEACE BOAT.(?HUH)

Not a cruise liner Charlie, at least not in the normal sense. See
http://www.peaceboat.org/english/wtpb/index.html

cueball44
13th June 2010, 23:35
(Whaaa)Part timers may have saile on (Thumb)boats


I Sailed on ships(Smoke) i was talking to a lad in the 70's who said he was on the 'BEN BOAT'S' well they did'nt look like boat's to me (Smoke),'cueball44'.

John Dryden
13th June 2010, 23:54
If you went to a boatyard and asked a boat builder to build you a ship more than likely he would point you in the direction of a shipyard and tell you to speak to a ship builder.Still be confused though!

Dickyboy
14th June 2010, 01:09
Boatyards build tiny ships, and Shipyards massive boats. Have I got that right?