Solo Yachties

smithax
31st July 2009, 15:53
Can some explain to me how Yachties get away with long solo voyages and still be legal bearing in mind that Rule 5 requires that "every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out"?

charles henry
31st July 2009, 16:00
Interesting point, Chichester certainly never did, possibly covered in the legal definition of a "vessel" duno
de chas

Pat Thompson
31st July 2009, 16:46
Greetings,

I had a long (over a number of years) correspondence with the Ministry of Transport and the most I could ever get out of them was that solo voyages were only "Technically Illegal". Throughout this correspondence they weaved, evaded, prevaricated, displayed great creativity with reality, avoided the issue ect.etc. need I go on, showing themselves to be the biggest hypocrites this side of San Francisco. I suspect nothing has changed. My conclusion from this protracted period of correspondence is that the powers that be can't be bl**dy well ar**d and are too busy dunking their chocolate hobnobs and dreaming of their gold plated pensions to actually do anything useful.

ROBERT HENDERSON
31st July 2009, 18:05
About thee months ago a letter appeared in the Nautilus Telegraph on this same subject. The letter writer had been in touch with Robin Knox-Johnson and referred him to Rule 5 of the collision regulations, in turn Knox- Johnson referred the letter writer to Rule 17.

Regards Robert

Lancastrian
31st July 2009, 18:42
For the benefit of those without a copy, Rule 5 requires every vessel to maintain a proper lookout. Rule 17 refers to stand on vessels which is a strange defence, as if you are asleep. how do you know whether you are the stand on vessel? And in any event both vessels are ultimately required to take action to avoid collision.
I'm with Pat. They are completely illegal and they get away with it because the authorities dont want the unfavourable publicity of being seen as spoilsports.

Billieboy
31st July 2009, 19:33
For the benefit of those without a copy, Rule 5 requires every vessel to maintain a proper lookout. Rule 17 refers to stand on vessels which is a strange defence, as if you are asleep. how do you know whether you are the stand on vessel? And in any event both vessels are ultimately required to take action to avoid collision.
I'm with Pat. They are completely illegal and they get away with it because the authorities dont want the unfavourable publicity of being seen as spoilsports.

Surely,(as an engineer), a solo saile(o)r, is always a, "Stand on vessel", as she has NO power! Thus rule 17 must apply! (unless of one is another solo saile(o)r, in which case one would be on roughly the same course). qed! (egg)

sparkie2182
31st July 2009, 22:07
On this very topic..........

http://www.abebooks.com/9780060957032/Voyage-Madmen-Nichols-Peter-0060957034/plp

a very good read.

Klaatu83
31st July 2009, 22:46
Arrogance and ignorance seem to be the distinguishing characteristics of Yachties. They seem to assume that they are entitled to put their boats on auto pilot, go to sleep, and then leave it up to the rest of us to look out for them! I almost ran one down one night off Cape Palos, where he was cruising with his running lights switched off. He was very indignant when I asked him over the radio why he wasn't showing any lights, he said they used too much electric power! If we merchant seamen operated our ships the way those "single-handers" operate they yachts, our licenses would be revoked.

Yachties are the perfect example of how a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Most of them have no notion of the "rules of the nautical road" (as we used to call them) apart from a general impression that a sail boat has the right of way over a power boat. I once met a guy who published a yachting magazine, who complained to me about how he was almost run down in New York Harbor by a big ship that wouldn't give him the right-of-way. he was surprised when I explained to him that a sailboat doesn't HAVE the right-of-way over a big ship that is constrained to operate within a narrow channel.

However, the ultimate yachtie has to be the idiot in the 15-foot sailboat who decided to sail between our 950-foot long container ship and the Portsmouth, Virginia dock where we were attempting to tie up. Our docking master blew the obligatory five-blast danger signal on the ship's whistle, and then I actually saw that yachtie moron WAVE BACK AT US!

Billieboy
1st August 2009, 06:11
I have several friends who own yachts and small boats, they often ask me out, "For an afternoon trip", my reply is always the same, "Less than 35,000 tons, is too small for safety!"

Cisco
1st August 2009, 07:04
Arrogance and ignorance seem to be the distinguishing characteristics of Yachties. They seem to assume that they are entitled to put their boats on auto pilot, go to sleep, and then leave it up to the rest of us to look out for them! I almost ran one down one night off Cape Palos, where he was cruising with his running lights switched off.

That's a bit of a gross generalization if I ever saw one......

The percentage of dropkicks amongst yachtsmen is probably only marginally greater than in the general population....

8th May this year I was heading up towards the Segunda Angostura ( Second Narrows ), Estrecho de Magallanes, at about midnight. Noticed a big bit of blacker than black coming up astern... called not once but *four* times on VHF before the nav lights went on...... the watchkeeper never did answer the VHF.
It was a Gearbulk ship....yes she passed that close... heard them talking to Punta Delgado a little later.. sounded like 'Emu Arrow' but she looked like a bigger newer one than her.

That said I do find the single handed round the world racer type to be a bit on the far side of arrogant when it comes to the rules. Offshore I reckon I am more likely to be run down by one of them than by a ship......

Satanic Mechanic
1st August 2009, 07:16
I have always preferred the term WAFI to yachtie(Smoke)

Cisco
1st August 2009, 07:43
Surely,(as an engineer), a solo saile(o)r, is always a, "Stand on vessel", as she has NO power! Thus rule 17 must apply! (unless of one is another solo saile(o)r, in which case one would be on roughly the same course). qed! (egg)

Yachts have plenty of power.... they just don't have engineers..... :)
They also have to keep out of the way of.. ( rule 18)

(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing.

Also have to keep out of the way of anything they are overtaking and
as stated here in "Rule 12
Sailing Vessels
(a) When two sailing vessels are approaching one another, so as to involve risk of collision, one of
them shall keep out of the way of the other as follows:
(i) when each has the wind on a different side, the vessel which has the wind on the port side
shall keep out of the way of the other;
(ii) when both have the wind on the same side, the vessel which is to windward shall keep
out of the way of the vessel which is to leeward;
(iii) if a vessel with the wind on the port side sees a vessel to windward and cannot determine
with certainty whether the other vessel has the wind on the port or on the starboard side,
she shall keep out of the way of the other. "

So, contrary to what a lot of mug yotties believe they don't have right of way over all they meet....

Enri
1st August 2009, 07:46
While we insist on giving these people khighthoods/damehoods, for breaking the rules, of course they will carry on doing it. The mentality of WAFI's can be clearly demonstarted by listening to Dover Port Control, on a really foggy day, listening to them ask for permission to leave port. I didn't like doing it and I had all the gear.

Enri

Lancastrian
1st August 2009, 09:16
Thanks Cisco, you beat me to it. Billieboy, best stick to the engineering.

Nick Balls
1st August 2009, 09:26
The problem is not the yachts , its SOME of the people sailing them.
obviously with single handed long distance sailing the collision regulations are indeed broken. However I would suggest that any competent long distance small boat sailor knows this and accepts the risk. Having been a professional all my life , I like many have come close to running down small boats. However I have also done quite a lot of miles in small boats albeit with sufficient crew to avoid the solo problem. Its madness to take a boat through busy waters without a constant lookout. Another matter in open waters. Anyone who has been sailing knows that these days commercial craft follow pretty tightly defined tracks. Outside these areas the frequency of vessels drops of to a huge extent. Competent yachts use these kinds of facts to reduce risk. Another interesting fact when dealing with sailing craft is that normally an approaching large power driven vessel can be heard thro' the hull of the yacht from a very long way off.
I would not like to see over regulation to confine peoples aspirations with regard to small craft. At the same time it is becoming pretty apparent that a significant proportion of pleasure boat owners are causing concern amongst professionals. I recently watched some WAFI antics in the approaches to Harwich , a place that has clearly defined parameters for the large number of yachts that use these ports. This is inexcusable and people failing to comply should be treated very strictly. On the other hand the level of competency on some commercial vessels when seen from the perspective of a small craft can be pretty embarrassing to one who was taught the old school way of keeping a watch.

Cisco
1st August 2009, 10:23
Anyone who has been sailing knows that these days commercial craft follow pretty tightly defined tracks. Outside these areas the frequency of vessels drops of to a huge extent.

Ah... the old 'I was out of the shipping lanes and so no longer kept watch'....
That's up there with ' We didn't keep watches the whole way across the Pacific and never saw a ship.......' Oh..OK..

If there were no ships outside the 'shipping lanes' then logic would suggest the owners could reduce their manning by routing their ships outside the 'lanes' and sacking the lookouts....

The risk may be reduced in many areas but it is still too big a risk for me. Biggest problem in my experience is fishing boats... not only found in the most unlikely places there is no way they will get out of your way....

NoMoss
1st August 2009, 10:58
I object that yachties or WAFIs have now become known as 'sailors', especially on the TV and other media. Thus when the Sailors Society is mentioned I think many of the public think it is a charity designed to support yachtsmen and most of them don't need financial help.

Enri
1st August 2009, 11:30
I forgot to add on my previous comment, that there is also a rule which states that where the action by the give way vessel alone will not avert a collision, then the stand on vessel shall take such action to avoid it. Can't do that when your asleep can you? (I would have quoted the rule number, but gave all my books away when I was retired, and can't remeber it).

Enri

David Davies
1st August 2009, 12:14
I object that yachties or WAFIs have now become known as 'sailors', especially on the TV and other media. Thus when the Sailors Society is mentioned I think many of the public think it is a charity designed to support yachtsmen and most of them don't need financial help.

I don't know what a "WAFI" is but I have an idea on sailoring. I went to sea in 1948 to join Pamir and become a sailor, unfortunately I spent the next 15 years driving steam boats, and even with a master's FG ticket I never, in my opinion, achieved my ambition until I left in 1963 and bought a yacht. I enjoyed? making passages offshore under the winds of heaven and navigating using 19th century methods and relying on my experience, learnt in the hard school of knocks to see me through. My main disappointment with fore and aft rig was that I no longer trod the foot rope and passed the gasket but a better wind'd performance was a great asset.
I agree that there are many that fall very short of the mark, on both sides of the argument, have we not all seen the "cowboys" on BOT regatta day, I would hardly call them sailors, but then who am I to pass judgment?

joebuckham
1st August 2009, 12:37
I don't know what a "WAFI" is but I have an idea on sailoring. I went to sea in 1948 to join Pamir and become a sailor, unfortunately I spent the next 15 years driving steam boats, and even with a master's FG ticket I never, in my opinion, achieved my ambition until I left in 1963 and bought a yacht. I enjoyed? making passages offshore under the winds of heaven and navigating using 19th century methods and relying on my experience, learnt in the hard school of knocks to see me through. My main disappointment with fore and aft rig was that I no longer trod the foot rope and passed the gasket but a better wind'd performance was a great asset.
I agree that there are many that fall very short of the mark, on both sides of the argument, have we not all seen the "cowboys" on BOT regatta day, I would hardly call them sailors, but then who am I to pass judgment?

wind assisted rude word idiot(==D)

Satanic Mechanic
1st August 2009, 12:52
I don't know what a "WAFI" is but I have an idea on sailoring. I went to sea in 1948 to join Pamir and become a sailor, unfortunately I spent the next 15 years driving steam boats, and even with a master's FG ticket I never, in my opinion, achieved my ambition until I left in 1963 and bought a yacht. I enjoyed? making passages offshore under the winds of heaven and navigating using 19th century methods and relying on my experience, learnt in the hard school of knocks to see me through. My main disappointment with fore and aft rig was that I no longer trod the foot rope and passed the gasket but a better wind'd performance was a great asset.
I agree that there are many that fall very short of the mark, on both sides of the argument, have we not all seen the "cowboys" on BOT regatta day, I would hardly call them sailors, but then who am I to pass judgment?

splutter!!! but they were steam ships - yeesh some people are never happy[=P]

ROBERT HENDERSON
1st August 2009, 13:09
wind assisted rude word idiot(==D)

Can you enlarge a bit more Joe for us poor innocents. (Jester) (Jester)

Regards Robert

K urgess
1st August 2009, 13:15
Can you enlarge a bit more Joe for us poor innocents. (Jester) (Jester)

Regards Robert

He could but any attempt to circumvent the censoring software could land him in the brig. (EEK)
As is best with all these things, use your imagination.[=P]

Nick Balls
1st August 2009, 13:44
An emotive subject! One of the most famous "Sailors" was Joshua Slocum and of course he disappeared, eventually lost at sea. Well I don't know.I suppose the "Sailors society" was set up originally to assist commercial sailing vessel crews. Nowadays I am afraid 99.9% of the population don't have a clue about any of these fine differences. We(Those working at sea) must all be sick of hearing inaccurate news reports that constantly show the great general ignorance of seafaring. The average yachtsmen don't really stand a chance of understanding much in the way of how modern shipping works. My own experience is that this group fall into two groups. "The Arrogant" and "The Curious" You don't do much pleasure boat sailing in the "Arrogant" group before the sea finds you out! Of the "Curious" I have often been impressed by the serious way they take on their hobby and have probably been asked more awkward and difficult questions by this group than I have by cadets in commercial shipping. Oh well I personally think that standards have fallen greatly with regard to commercial shipping. How many of us have encountered the give way vessel telling us by VHF to "get out the way"
Small sailing craft and fishing vessels do very often fall into the category of the "Stand on" vessel and the fact that they are small has no relevance. Fishing vessels also routinely find that many "Arrogant" big ships expect them to move out of there path simply because they are bigger faster vessels who have little understanding of fishing.

David Davies
1st August 2009, 14:01
Thank you Joe for the WAFI enlightenment, I will use my imagination. In my sailing days, 1963 t0 93 I was privileged to have known two yachtsmen who took their yachts to Dunkirk in 1940, I'm sure The BEF standing on the beaches didn't refer to them as WAFIS .

Satanic Mechanic
1st August 2009, 14:13
Thank you Joe for the WAFI enlightenment, I will use my imagination. In my sailing days, 1963 t0 93 I was privileged to have known two yachtsmen who took their yachts to Dunkirk in 1940, I'm sure The BEF standing on the beaches didn't refer to them as WAFIS .

They might have, while at the same time edging towards the destroyers.

Fieldsy
1st August 2009, 14:30
I remember seeing Claire Francis on Parkinson years ago and wanting to slap her stupid face. She was moaning about the lack of look-outs on big ships as they never seemed to see her. In a big swell she'd only be visible for a second while on top of the swell but she didn't seem to realise that.
She acknowledged she had no radar reflector and no navigation lights.
'I'd shine my torch on my sails at night when a ship came near'.
Right love, that'll get the job done!

Such a pity nobody ever sunk her.

Pompeyfan
1st August 2009, 14:40
Although technically illegal as already explained, the majority of solos yachties are highly experienced sailors like Sir Robin Knox Johnson, Dame Ellen MacArthur, Dee Cafari all record breaking holders. The same for all those who take part in the Vendee Globe, highly skilled sailors showing not only their sailing skills but the ultimate test of seamanship. Over 300,000 turned up to see the last Vendee Globe of 30 yachts set off.

Yes, they put others at risk who may have to save them, and sailing with no lookout is of course a major hazard, and illegal. But these sailors are doing nothing that our pioneering seafarers did not do as they traded with the rest of the world in flimsy sailing ships that often foundered losing all life on board, and did not have the equipment that the solo sailor of today has.

Highly trained solo sailors cannot be compared with the idiots who take to the seas every day on our coasts especially the summer season. Anybody can take a yacht the same size that skilled solo sailors sail or other small craft out without any qualifications at all. You cannot take a car on our roads without a license, insurance and so on, but you can take a boat out even if have never been on the sea before. There is no compulsory requirement, or no compulsory need to take life jackets, radios, flares or whatever. Just watch Seaside Rescues each Wednesday on BBC1, and you will see exactly what I mean, the last being next Wednesday. All are advised to learn the rules of the sea, how to handle a boat, what equipment to take, but nobody can physically or legally stop them. Yet rather than moan about them, we moan about skilled sailors just because they are solo?!.

All these solos sailors, except perhaps for a small minority spend years leaning how to sail, learning the rules of the sea, equipment needed and so on. They do not just take to the water like all other WAFI's.

When not taking part in races, many are teaching others to sail. Those who live here on the island will often see Dame Ellen out with kids teaching them how to sail. Yet being taught how to sail etc is voluntary, not compulsory. I believe it should be the latter if we are to prevent the annual deaths or accidents at sea almost all involving novices.

During my 20 years dealing with post mortems, I have lost count of the deaths I dealt with involving deaths off the islands coast due to people having no idea what they were doing. They are the idiots, the WAFI, not the professionals, even if they are technically breaking the law.

I was only involved with one professional, and that was a tragic accident. It was a famous French speedboat driver off the Needles. In fact, I think he was more famous for motor racing than speedboats.

It is not the solos professionals we need to worry about regarding nautical regulations, but the hundreds of idiots who the law allows to take to our seas as if it is massive playground. My former mortuary will again be busy this year due to these idiots, as will other around the countries coastline. Yet nothing will be done to stop it, no more than solo professionals will not be stopped.

In the meantime, commercial ships who have to stick to rules have to try to avoid these playground idiots.

David

McCloggie
1st August 2009, 14:51
I acted as OOW/NO many times bringing minesweepers into/leaving from the Solent on summer weekends when the WAFI's were out in force. It was a nightmare and I always felt for the large commercial ships trying to get into Southampton/Portsmouth.

I remember one particular occasion when we were at "flying stations", excercising with a helicopter directly above the sweepdeck with a man on the winch. We were called up on the VHF and told by a WAFI that we were breaking the rule of the road, he (the WAFI) was racing and had right of way, and threatened were with being reported to our "senior officers" when we pointed out that we were in the right, could not and would not get out of his way.

Having said that, I have also seen commercial ships being just as bad (trying to steam between between two connected sweepers conducting a paired-sweep was a good one) and you began to wonder if there was anyone on the ship let alone the bridge!!!!

McC

Bill Davies
1st August 2009, 15:01
Never took much interest in this fraternity (solo or otherwise). Always considered them a general nuisence and strongly believe legislation should have been introduced long ago to stop any Tom Dick or Harry putting to sea.
I recall back in 70 when ULCCs (Bantry Class) first arrived on the scene and were somewhat of a source of curiosity. Yachties were a real pain!

ROBERT HENDERSON
1st August 2009, 16:05
Bill
You quote that Yachties were a real pain as in past tense, although we are both retired I think for those still sailing they are still a pain.

Regards Robert

Klaatu83
1st August 2009, 17:52
I have several friends who own yachts and small boats, they often ask me out, "For an afternoon trip", my reply is always the same, "Less than 35,000 tons, is too small for safety!"

A very wise captain I used to sail with had a variation on that. He insisted that he always obeyed the "600-foot Rule"; which stated, "Never go to sea in anything under 600 feet long".

One thing I've observed about Yachties (or WAFIs, which is a new one on me) is that they seem to assume that if they can see you then you can see them. Unfortunately, that often isn't the case when you are in a huge ship and they are in a tiny, white sailboat that blends in perfectly with the surrounding whitecaps. They don't seem to realize that, while the ship they are looking up at stands out against the horizon, the guy on the bridge is often looking down at the sailboat, which is often lost against a background of sea waves.

They also seem to assume that hanging one of those tin pie plates from their mast enables our radar to pick them up. The fact is that it often doesn't, especially when there is a good deal of sea return or rain clutter.

ROBERT HENDERSON
1st August 2009, 18:24
I remember some years ago one of these highly experienced sailor, a certain Mr Gillimore from Bristol who was hailed a hero when his yacht tipped over being hailed a hero for staying with his yacht by the British media, he didn't have much option. The real heroes were men of the Australian Navy that had to save him.
Before that incident Chay Blyth was in a slight collision in the English Channel, Blyth complained that there was no one on the bridge of the small container ship that hit him. It could have been that the OOW was plotting his position on a chart, with the chart table being at the aft end of the wheel house. But the position remains that Blyth was not keeping a lookout,by his own admittance he was down below, and only when he came on deck after being struck. So how would he know if any one was on the bridge of the other vessel or not?

Regards Robert

David Davies
1st August 2009, 19:19
Gilmore's ballast keel carried away. To put things in a modern day perspective, The lorry driver thinks that the private motorist is a pain, they all think the cyclist is a menace and nearly all agree that the poor old horse rider should be banned from all roads, even quiet country lanes. Recently at our monthly get together for retired seafarers at Felixstowe Seafarer's Centre we met half the crew of a Cypriot registered ship, both of them!. May not be single handed, but 4 men, including the Master is getting close

Pat Thompson
1st August 2009, 19:21
Greetings,

Technically Illegal is a piece of pure bureacratic semantics, and arrant nonsense dreamed up by a bored bureacrat who was no doubt hoping I would go away, I think it was over 100 letters to the Department highlighting every sail or arrival of a lone yachtie I spotted in the press. I'm sure I had stood my lookouts down and there had been an incident with a lone yachtie I would have had my collar felt. For the Department to flagrantly ignore the Collision Regs like this is to bring them, ie the law, into disrepute and they should be taken to task for this contemptible behaviour. I did ask them if they were going to continue to ignore the application of the Rules, which I believe they are charged to do, would I be given, in the case of a casualty with one of them, a "Get out of Jail Free Card". Despite repeated and frequent hasteners they, the Department, totally ignored the question, Sir Humphrey would have been proud of them.

Regarding the "professional" lone yachties they are serial law breakers and their felony is compounded by the FACT that they claim to be experienced seamen, they cannot even claim ignorance of the Law which is no defence anyway. They should end up in a criminal court rather than the Court of Saint James to receive their gongs and knighthoods. Ironic isn't it that there was one of this band of pilgrims who worked for and was sponsored by Group 4. If the Department had been doing it's job Group 4 would have been taking him to jail.

The people responsible for this abysmal state of affairs are clearly the various Govenment Departments who have failed to do the job for which they are paid and enforce the regulations. The yachties that break the law in this way do it in the sure knowledge they will get away with it gaining celebrity status into the bargain and do little more than live off the back of Government indifference and inaction.

Pompeyfan
1st August 2009, 19:25
I remember some years ago one of these highly experienced sailor, a certain Mr Gillimore from Bristol who was hailed a hero when his yacht tipped over being hailed a hero for staying with his yacht by the British media, he didn't have much option. The real heroes were men of the Australian Navy that had to save him.
Before that incident Chay Blyth was in a slight collision in the English Channel, Blyth complained that there was no one on the bridge of the small container ship that hit him. It could have been that the OOW was plotting his position on a chart, with the chart table being at the aft end of the wheel house. But the position remains that Blyth was not keeping a lookout,by his own admittance he was down below, and only when he came on deck after being struck. So how would he know if any one was on the bridge of the other vessel or not?

Regards Robert


Robert

You will always find the odd story involving experienced solo sailors etc. They are prone to accidents the same as other professional seafarers. But there is no comparison to incidents involving these people to the thousands of idiots involved in rescues around out coasts each summer in this country alone. We must put it into perspective.

Like I keep saying, watch Seaside Rescues on BBC1. The last programme is next Wednesday at 2030 BBC1 This is just one coastal area, but incidents they face on a daily basis in the summer period is repeated around the country including here on the Isle of Wight.

I only dealt with those who died of course, and we had several each year. But there were far more incidents involving rescue services.

Before singling out the minority, we must deal with the majority if we are to prevent needless rescues and deaths at sea and along our coastline.

Just seen your post Pat. Although true, the people you speak of are not the main villains. The incidents they may cause or potential incidents is but a drop in the ocean(pardon the pun)to the novices on our waters and coastlines.

Like I say, in 20 years I only dealt with one professional who was killed. But although I do not have the figures of the others who died, it would be in three figures. Sorry, but there is just no comparison with experienced lone yachties and the mindless fools who put their own and others lives at risk every day during the summer months in particular. My own department alone proved this.

David

MARINEJOCKY
1st August 2009, 19:45
None of you guys have heard of the "Tonnage Rule" then.

How many yachts (are we referring to sailing yachts and power boats) have collided with ships and caused those ships to sink.

How many professional sea-farers have had to be rescued due to poor seamanship or sub standard ships. Compare that to the number of solo sailers rescued around the world.

Finally how many professional seaman were there back at the height of the merchant navy and how many recreational boaters are there.

As for sailing solo, much better being in a 60 foot sailing yacht (blow boat) with only a reefed main & a 90% stay sail going along in 15 knot winds between Antigua and St. Maarten with a bottle of wine and a little blond cutie, now I know why you are all jealous. (*))

Lancastrian
1st August 2009, 21:11
I forgot to add on my previous comment, that there is also a rule which states that where the action by the give way vessel alone will not avert a collision, then the stand on vessel shall take such action to avoid it. Can't do that when your asleep can you? (I would have quoted the rule number, but gave all my books away when I was retired, and can't remember it).

Enri

Enri, its Rule 17,as mentioned in my first contribution.
Pompeyfan, as a former professional, Sir Robin should have known better than to be a founder of this lunacy.
Robert, I think you will find his name was Bullimore.

Cisco
1st August 2009, 21:49
Robert

You will always find the odd story involving experienced solo sailors etc. They are prone to accidents the same as other professional seafarers. But there is no comparison to incidents involving these people to the thousands of idiots involved in rescues around out coasts each summer in this country alone. We must put it into perspective.


David

'Experienced solo sailors'... 'thousands of idiots'... hmmm...getting a bit emotive there David.

Maybe you should work on getting 'Yachting World' - which sets these solo serial lawbreakers up as role models- banned. At least PBO tries to edumacate.

Now that I am retired I spend the greater part of each year sailing in one of the less frequented bits of the world, the Chilean channel country, and am based in Pto Williams , Isla Navarino. Not a lot of yachts pass through that area... maybe 20 cruising boats a year. In the last 2 years I have known 3 of the 4 single handers lost either down there or coming or going from there. Ex RYA instructor posted missing between Chile and Tahiti, young Kiwi, ditto, Polish skipper who seemed experienced enough, rescued when yacht lost near Staten Island, another kiwi skipper taken off his boat in the same area suffering from exhaustion... boat abandoned. That's up around 50% or higher of the singlehanders.... its a mug's game ..
In the same period one crewed yacht has been abandoned between there and CapeTown with rig failure.

sidsal
1st August 2009, 22:14
Cisco; Fascinated that you are based in Puerto Williams in the Beagle Channel. Do you know Capt Ben who had the Victory sailing vessel.? I had hoped to come out there to do a trip with him but old age (83) and circumstances got in the way. In the meantime he retired I believe.
The area down there amazes me.. I only sailed by in a cruise ship some years ago but have read a lot about Cape Horn and Patagonia.. The book by Lucas Bridges - The Uttermost parts of the Earth is so interesting. I believe one can charter yachts from Pt Wms to South Georgia and the Antarctic - bit hairy I should think.
( I have circumnavigated under sail - 250 ton ketch in the 80's)
Cheers
Sid

ROBERT HENDERSON
1st August 2009, 22:23
I remember now you have mentioned the correct name Lancastrian, I am starting to have senior moments. Thanks for the correction.

Regards Robert

Cisco
1st August 2009, 22:50
Cisco; Fascinated that you are based in Puerto Williams in the Beagle Channel. Do you know Capt Ben who had the Victory sailing vessel.? I had hoped to come out there to do a trip with him but old age (83) and circumstances got in the way. In the meantime he retired I believe.
The area down there amazes me.. I only sailed by in a cruise ship some years ago but have read a lot about Cape Horn and Patagonia.. The book by Lucas Bridges - The Uttermost parts of the Earth is so interesting. I believe one can charter yachts from Pt Wms to South Georgia and the Antarctic - bit hairy I should think.
Sid
Gday Sid, yes Ben and Monica are still in town, they sold Victory to the fancy( OK - fancy for Williams) resort on the edge of town... they spent a zillion 'Pinochet Pesos' on her and she is back doing the channel charter thing. Ben still acts as a charter agent.
In the summer there is a steady stream of charter yachts doing the trip to the peninsula.. most are quite good but not cheap. Not many do S Georgia but a few go there each year. Mainly private boats go there and then onwards east or north as its B hard getting back to the west...
Cheers
Frank

Pompeyfan
1st August 2009, 23:25
'Experienced solo sailors'... 'thousands of idiots'... hmmm...getting a bit emotive there David.

Maybe you should work on getting 'Yachting World' - which sets these solo serial lawbreakers up as role models- banned. At least PBO tries to edumacate.

Now that I am retired I spend the greater part of each year sailing in one of the less frequented bits of the world, the Chilean channel country, and am based in Pto Williams , Isla Navarino. Not a lot of yachts pass through that area... maybe 20 cruising boats a year. In the last 2 years I have known the skippers of 3 of the 4 single handers lost either down there or coming or going from there. Ex RYA instructor posted missing between Chile and Tahiti, young Kiwi, ditto, Polish skipper who seemed experienced enough, rescued when yacht lost near Staten Island, another kiwi skipper taken off his boat in the same area suffering from exhaustion... boat abandoned. That's up around 50% or higher of the singlehanders.... its a mug's game ..
In the same period one crewed yacht has been abandoned between there and CapeTown with rig failure.


Cisco

I hear what you say, and do not dispute it. My figures are not emotive, but facts, certainly here in the UK. Some of the facts are from my former department, the rest from colleagues in coastal areas throughout the country. I never comment without having had first hand knowledge. I also did locums in Jersey, and we had plenty of seaside accidents there, all involving novices, and all avoidable.

I have also been heavily involved in the local yachting fraternity here on the island since I was born right at the very top, which you would know if you have read all my posts, so have no need to work on getting Yachting World?!.

Also of course, I was involved with the emergency services due to my job not my contacts, taking part in major disaster plans and directly involved in drills that involved all the emergency services on the IOW. We were well aware of figures, who were the main cause of rescues etc.

You must understand the information I was aware of Cisco due to my job position and contacts. Indeed, even after I retired, I was asked by those in our local authority to work with the minister of state on a local nautical matters because I was experienced in such matters.

Also of course, as you would see in Mess Deck regarding shipwrecks, my family was involved in life saving and the Coastguard on the island. For that reason, I have had dealings with life saving, figures, and those at the top of the yachting fraternity all my life.

Yes, solo sailors get into trouble, and it is hard to have sympathy with them. I certainly do not take their sides much to some of my friends disgust. If somebody makes a mistake they must stand up and be counted whoever they are in my opinion even if friends of friends etc. But I repeat, in comparison with novices who get into trouble ever week, solo experienced sailors getting into trouble are in a minority, way down the list.

You are obviously a very competent sailor Cisco. But don't you think that everybody who takes to the sea in any boat including a yacht should have something to prove they are competent to take that boat out, knowing how to handle it, weather conditions, equipment and so on?.

I am sure that the Coastguard members of SN have plenty of their own figures as to who has to be rescued the most, and I would bet the novices far out number the professionals?. When you have cut up just one person who drowned because of their own stupidity it is one too many, but I was involved in more than I can remember, and would be in three figures over a period of 20 years. That is why I want something done to prevent such needless deaths at sea.

Finally, it is Cowes Week here on the island, lots of yachts will be out there, and lots of very experienced sailors as well as not so experienced. Not like the old days however. No Royal Yacht, and none of the characters of the past.

David

Cisco
2nd August 2009, 00:11
Points taken. However I would suggest that *as a percentage* solo sailors come to grief far more often than mug punter weekend sailors. Unless it is a 'celebrity' singlehander they don't make the news... they simply vanish off the face of the planet and if they are lucky there is eventually a memorial service somewhere or other for them.
As to what should be done about the unskilled and inept going afloat... I dunno. I've met plenty of people with RYA qualifications who still don't have a clue, others with thousands of miles under their keels who are just accidents waiting to happen. Many of your deaths are probably just down to plain bad luck... others down to stupidity... you can't legislate either of those causes out of existence .

Billieboy
2nd August 2009, 06:25
Thanks for the enlightenment Cisco and Lancastrian. This forum is an education!(Thumb)

One foggy February afternoon Llangorse sailed from Rotterdam at Noon, FAOP was about 14.00-Fog Standby. It was my watch below, so whilst I was winding her up, my junior was getting the vaps on and shutting down for Sea. We had signed on a new Swedish 2/O, the day before, but I'd not had a chance to meet him.

The Bridge phone rang, "Rockets, Standby to Stop", then the telegraph went to Stop, followed by slow Astern! Pandemonium was not quite the word on the plates. Double Full Astern, so we stopped on a dime as they say. The dust settled a bit, and I was informed that we were rescuing a tug boat crew, whose vessel was sinking, very fast calculations showed that there was NO profit in a salvage tow, so the messages were sent to all the relevent people and a salvage tug was dispatched to do the business. The tugboat skipper, (from Hamburg), told us that they had been in distress for about six hours, fired off all but one rockets with no help. When he saw us, he took careful aim at our bridge and let go! We were just starting to gas free for butterworth, as per normal in those days before IG.(EEK)

The tug was not lost, she was salvaged and put back in service, the stern tube seal had been wrongly fitted, flooding the engine room. Funny thing that day, there were NO WAFIs sighted either. We dropped the tug crew off at Falmouth the next day. (Thumb)

NoMoss
2nd August 2009, 08:27
An emotive subject! One of the most famous "Sailors" was Joshua Slocum and of course he disappeared, eventually lost at sea. Well I don't know.I suppose the "Sailors society" was set up originally to assist commercial sailing vessel crews. Nowadays I am afraid 99.9% of the population don't have a clue about any of these fine differences. We(Those working at sea) must all be sick of hearing inaccurate news reports that constantly show the great general ignorance of seafaring. The average yachtsmen don't really stand a chance of understanding much in the way of how modern shipping works. My own experience is that this group fall into two groups. "The Arrogant" and "The Curious" You don't do much pleasure boat sailing in the "Arrogant" group before the sea finds you out! Of the "Curious" I have often been impressed by the serious way they take on their hobby and have probably been asked more awkward and difficult questions by this group than I have by cadets in commercial shipping. Oh well I personally think that standards have fallen greatly with regard to commercial shipping. How many of us have encountered the give way vessel telling us by VHF to "get out the way"
Small sailing craft and fishing vessels do very often fall into the category of the "Stand on" vessel and the fact that they are small has no relevance. Fishing vessels also routinely find that many "Arrogant" big ships expect them to move out of there path simply because they are bigger faster vessels who have little understanding of fishing.

The Sailors' Society was only created in 2007 when the British and International Sailors' Society changed its name in order 'to be truly global'.
The new branding 'will simplify and clarify our identity and help towards fund-raising for our international work, allowing us to met the needs of even more seafarers.' Robert Adams, society general secretary.

spongebob
2nd August 2009, 12:40
I have posted this on the Stormy weather thread "French Rower costs US taxpayer Big time" which was daft of me as it is not continuous with this thread there
Quote

Solo voyaging

I am urged/incited/ encouraged/ compelled to resurrect this post following my reading of the current thread “Solo Yachties” and noting the almost ninety percent bias against these intrepid men’s adventures that is reflected in the posts from the mariner community.
Perhaps my main intent to those of you that are still at sea is to alert you to the young 16 year old girl, Jessica Watson (earlier incorrectly named Wilson by me) and the subject of my post # 8 above, who plans to set off in September to sail single handed around the world before her 17th birthday.
Her planned route is eastward from Queensland into the Pacific to cross the equator before heading southward around Cape Horn, past Cape of Good Hope, down through the Indian Ocean before finishing the circumnavigation via the Southern Ocean and Bass Strait on the leg to her home port Mooloolaba

Google “Jessica Watson” to get the full story.

I have wished her well in my above posts but at the same time say that I am glad that she is not my daughter. The Majority of the Australian public are against the journey for many varied reasons, some as practical as the inability of a young slip of a girl to have the strength to do what she will undoubtedly been called on to do under adverse circumstances such as chopping clear a broken mast or fitting up a jury rig or the like.
Others question the fact that she has no previous long voyage solo experience, not even a trans-Tasman crossing which would be a very valid test. One suggests that the confidence and bravery will pall as soon as she gets out of cell phone range and so on yet her parents and others fully back her in the attempt.

I am a big supporter of men and women that reach for boundaries, being a bit of a wuss myself, be it ocean sailing, mountain climbing, hang gliding, even base jumping and the like providing they don’t jeopardize the lives of others as these are the ilk of people that have gone to extremes in war and adventure in the past and have the bottle to do it in the future as I have laboured in my post #10 above.

Sure, solo sailors can be a menace on busy shipping routes but perhaps theoretically less so than say 30 or 40 years ago when yachts and many ships lacked today’s navigational aids, not even radar, and the ratio of ships to yachts was much higher before the advent of super size container ships and tankers.

Can I ask how many ships have been sunk or even damaged by a collision at sea? The risk is almost totally in the adventurer’s hands even though no mariner would ever want such a situation on their conscience no matter who is at fault.
My old Father in law was Master of a USSCo ship leaving Wellington in the 60’s on a dark inclement night and passing out through the heads he ran down an unlit yacht of about 30 odd feet in length and as the wooden vessel bounced off the ship’s bow and scraped down the ships side the crew of three were able to clamber up their own rigging to board the ship unhurt. A fortunate moment for them.
I forget the final outcome and I have lost my newspaper clipping of the event but one day a net search or an old salt like me will remember the incident and reveal the end result

Please watch out if you are conning a ship in Jessica’s waters

We must all temper our condemnation of all these adventurers to the degree that we do not stifle initiative or ambition and, as a consequence, kill off the passion for that step beyond the norm.

There are many examples of yachting seafarers who have gone to sea poorly prepared or equipped just as there is many climbers and hikers, fishermen and swimmers or parachutists or hang gliders that have set out half cocked and I can example a couple of intrepid sailors that stopped over in Auckland before the next leg of their circumnavigations

The first was a mad mariner, a Welshman named Irfon Nicholas who sailed from Europe to Auckland via various ports in a 30 odd foot Ferro-cement yacht that had the charming name of “Sospan Fach”, Welsh for little saucepan? Apparently his crew left him in Auckland and when it became time to move on to Sydney he advertised in the local paper for new recruits and took on an Australian male and two NZ women all in search of adventure.
I remember the bloke, a reticent sort of character, and his boat, a doubtful example of a sound craft, and the sort of boat that we used to call a floating septic tank.
The skipper left Auckland in 1974 without notifying the local Marine Authorities and getting a certificate of sea worthiness, headed to North Cape before setting a westerly course toward Australia and by this time he had already started to quarrel with his crew. Some time after the drama that follows I remember reading that the crew expressed doubts about his navigational skills and were told that to get to Australia you just sailed to the top of NZ, turned left and sailed to the best weather advantage until you sight Aussie then coast down to Sydney!!
Needless to say that plan did not work and they finished up going aground on the notorious Middleton Reef, graveyard to many ships, one of the biggest being the “Runic” that went aground during a cyclone in 1961. Luckily for “Sospan Fach” crew they were able to find shelter and food on a nearby Japanese trawler wreck “Fuku Maru” that ran aground in 1963 in high seas. This wreck has been replenished with supplies and used as a food cache for ship wrecked sailors ever since.
They were eventually able to signal a passing ship and get rescued.

Google “shipwrecks on Middleton reef” and you will find info re Runic and Sospan Fach

Then there was John Riding an Englishman who arrived in Auckland after sailing a 12 foot boat called “Sea Egg” from Europe. He sailed from France across the Atlantic to New York, down the East Coast to Panama then up the US Pacific coast before heading westward via island ports of call to Auckland.
John was in Auckland for some months, supposedly replenishing his boat and himself ready for the next leg to Sydney, a passage that he estimated to take him 66 days .I had the chance to speak to him on a few occasions, he was always chatting to some one or helping other round the world sailors with their craft, so much so that it was later said that he spent too much time helping others at the expense of his own little ship. It was really no more than a dingy with a turtle back deck, bilge keels and a tiny cockpit.

It was 1973 when he left Auckland for Sydney and was never heard of again. Both sea and coast line searches were carried out for any sign of his boat and even a well known clairvoyant was consulted before abandoning the effort. He had come so far, had written books about his journey and had become the time’s most well known micro sailor but he was caught out by the sea in the end.
Again the net provides plenty of comment re Sea Egg

Was he brave, was he foolish or did he just want to do something extreme, we will never know.

There must be dozens of such failure stories but I would wager that they are proportionally as little as the ratios of small aircraft flights to crashes or grand prix races to driver fatalities or jockeys killed in horse racing, whatever.
Yes there is a risk but there are also those that can take them in a well planned and measured way to achieve their aims.
Don’t forget it was encouragement’s win over discouragement that persuaded many feats of the past such as
Christopher Columbus’ exploration
Oliver and Wilbur Wright’s first flight
Charles Lindbergh’s first solo flight across the Atlantic
Hillary’s ascent of Everest.
The trip to the Moon.

I had better stop now before I list “Evil Knievel” as another example of fortitude and courage.

Bob

Bill Davies
2nd August 2009, 12:47
Bill
You quote that Yachties were a real pain as in past tense, although we are both retired I think for those still sailing they are still a pain.

Regards Robert

Robert,

I am sure they are. I occasionally visit my daughter who lives in Caldy , Wirral and nearby there is a place called West Kirby. The members of Sailing Club I have met show an arrogance I have rarely met elsewhere and I am not at all surprised at the difficulties they get themselves into. Cravats ant referring to themdselves as Captain this and Commodores that. It is not real!

Brgds

Bill

jimg0nxx
2nd August 2009, 13:48
From Sea Breezes August 2009:-

Quote
Yachtsman was lost on coastal voyage

The safety range boat on patrol off the Lydd Ranges in Kent on June 15 found a lone yachtsman drifting in a 28ft yacht with engine failure, a damaged mast, and unclear where he was.

The yacht was one mile south of the Dungeness lifeboat station. On arriving, the lifeboat crew discovered that the man was on passage from Poole to Newhaven but had got completely lost.

The lifeboat towed the yacht into Dover harbour. Unquote

This reminds me of an incident (in the 60s) when I was awakened by the auto alarm in the middle of the night. There was a yacht had sent out a distress message stating that he was lost in the Dover Strait.

On another occasion, again the auto alarm going off during the night, where a yacht had sent out a distress from a position in Bay of Biscay. This time the distress was due to all on board being seasick.

Needless to say on both occasions the Old Man was not best pleased.

Jim

MARINEJOCKY
2nd August 2009, 13:53
I am glad there are more Bob's out there than those others.

How many solo yachts, weekend sailors or fully crewed sail or power boats caused as much damage as the Exxon Valdez or the Torey Canyon to name but two of many.

Satanic Mechanic
2nd August 2009, 13:59
I am glad there are more Bob's out there than those others.

How many solo yachts, weekend sailors or fully crewed sail or power boats caused as much damage as the Exxon Valdez or the Torey Canyon to name but two of many.

Oh I don't know - it can be a real bugger getting the sail unwrapped from the anchor and touching up the paint on the bulbous bow/battering ram (Smoke)

sidsal
2nd August 2009, 18:26
On reading the varied opinions on this most interesting thread I feel that human nature , being what it is, will always bring over confident "nutters" to the fore, However these samme "nutters" are the ones who, when our country is in dire straits, become the heroes whom we admire. They are the intrepid pilots who know no fear and the seamen who face any danger heroically.
Having had some contact with aviating types who are very similar to nautical types, I believe that seafaring and aviating should ideally be done by well trained and qualified people but there will always be those over confident types who believe they know it all. In the case of aviators, they eventually often crash spectacularly and at sea get lost. In both cases they often cause danger and inconvenience to others.
I'm afraid you won't change human nature and things will probably go on as they are.

smithax
3rd August 2009, 13:37
It is interesting to note that my original post was answered by Pat a couple of posts later, it is of course illegal.
The thread then drifts off to the practicalities of it being illegal, how many collisions, how much damage could be caused etc. This is irrelevant , if a collision, grounding or whatever occurs because a proper lookout was not being kept, the person should be prosecuted, just like commercial vessel watchkeepers.
Then we have talk about the heroics of single handed yachtsmen (should that be yachtperson?). Are people more heroic because they go by themselves rather than take at least one other person so as to remain legal? Perhaps so, as being alone they obviously take a bigger risk in the event of injury. This, I feel though is not something to admired. That person is taking unnecessary risks, breaking the law, and in most cases has no hesitation in calling for help. Other people are then expected to take risks and incur costs to rescue them.
Perhaps if some sectors of the press/public stop idolising solo yachties the incidence of such occurrences would decline

Bill Davies
3rd August 2009, 13:59
Good post. Well written and sensible.

NoMoss
3rd August 2009, 14:09
I agree.
This morning they were celebrating the 'heroic' single-handing rowing of the Indian Ocean from Australia to Mauritius. The girl admitted her fear of being run down by a ship, adding that her boat was so small it would be difficult to see.

Pompeyfan
3rd August 2009, 17:58
It is interesting to note that my original post was answered by Pat a couple of posts later, it is of course illegal.
The thread then drifts off to the practicalities of it being illegal, how many collisions, how much damage could be caused etc. This is irrelevant , if a collision, grounding or whatever occurs because a proper lookout was not being kept, the person should be prosecuted, just like commercial vessel watchkeepers.
Then we have talk about the heroics of single handed yachtsmen (should that be yachtperson?). Are people more heroic because they go by themselves rather than take at least one other person so as to remain legal? Perhaps so, as being alone they obviously take a bigger risk in the event of injury. This, I feel though is not something to admired. That person is taking unnecessary risks, breaking the law, and in most cases has no hesitation in calling for help. Other people are then expected to take risks and incur costs to rescue them.
Perhaps if some sectors of the press/public stop idolising solo yachties the incidence of such occurrences would decline

Again, this whole thing is not being put into perspective. If experienced solo yachties acting illegally is such a major issue, then for goodness sake lets please begin at home concentrating on the majority, before lambasting the few.

Solos yachties are being criticised for acting illegally but shouldn't we be concentrating on bringing in laws closer to home first by stopping unqualified people taking a vessel of any size out to sea?. These are the people who put themselves and rescuers at risk, not the solo yachties. These are the people who are constantly being saved, who are putting others lives at risk on a daily basis in the high season on our coasts, and who were entered into my mortuary register, who I myself cut up at post mortem every year, not solo yachties, but people who were acting legally, and able to do so. Surely, if we are so hell bent on sticking to the law regarding solo yachties, then we should bring out new laws to stop this annual madness that see hundreds of people rescued on a regular basis around our coasts annually, and people like me cutting up young kids who's parents let them take a small RIB out only to lose them, adults drowning on a regular basis, putting our rescue services at risk and at full stretch. They were not always found at the time washing up later decomposed. I had several of those every year.

I personally am not for or against solo yachties. All I do know is that I have certainly never had one in my mortuary, and neither has my former colleagues around the country to my knowledge. It must surely have happened worldwide, but I do not recall any. But the law of averages must surely say that some lost their lives, but not at the same level as on our coastline every year. That is the difference.

I do however know that I saw more deaths from around our coasts than most of people acting legally, and indeed dealing directly with them and the relatives. Yet, they should not have been allowed to do what they did, the law should have prevented it because just about every death was totally avoidable.

Before lambasting the few, lets stop the annual madness of avoidable deaths around our coasts because any Tom Dick and Harry can take a boat out. If acting illegally is such a major problem of those I never had in my mortuary, lets start doing something about the people I did. And over 20 years, they would be way into three figures, with no solo sailors.

So please, lets put this into perspective. I don't need to read papers, I was up to my eyes in it living on the coast.

Again, I would urge members to watch Seaside Rescues on BBC1 this Wednesday to see what the rescue services have to contend with every day of the week. It should be an eye opener.

By the way, there has already been an incident at Cowes Week involving a spectator RIB.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/8180804.stm

David

Bill Davies
3rd August 2009, 19:26
All I do know is that I have certainly never had one in my mortuary, and neither has my former colleagues around the country to my knowledge. It must surely have happened worldwide, but I do not recall any. David

There might be a reason for that!

Bill

Pompeyfan
3rd August 2009, 22:38
There might be a reason for that!

Bill

Yes Bill, there could well be, like being days away from land and coming a cropper never to be seen again.

But the vital question has not been answered.

If it is illegal for yachties to sail solo upsetting so many people, why are those same people not getting upset at the vast number of people including children who are saved or killed on the coastline of our country alone every year because the law allows it to happen by not having regulations to stop it. Surely there cannot be one rule for some on the high seas, but not the others?.

Those who are allowed to take to seas with no qualifications at all, be it on the coast from some sandy seaside resort, or further out to sea are a danger to themselves, commercial shipping, and put the lives of rescuers at risk. We as society are actually letting it happen, but more concerned about the minority of experienced sailors just because they are sailing solo, than the majority of those who are allowed by law to use the sea as a giant playground. Where is the sense in that? (Cloud)

That is why I say we should put it all into perspective. Every year during the summer season we had deaths due to avoidable accidents on our coast here on the Isle of Wight alone, and I dealt with every one. Colleagues in mortuaries along the south coast from Bournemouth to Brighton reported the same, we were all in contact, and all busy. Accidents where people were not killed were far higher. Thankfully, in comparison to those who were saved, only a few died, but still far too many. Just about every incident was due to novices, and usually on holiday, not knowing the area.

I personally have taken it to the very top, and I mean the top. But some of those at the top has power, but no influence. And some are yachties themselves or have other posh craft, so not keen on new regulations despite the deaths it causes each year. The end result is Governments of all parties not listening. I even took it directly to a minister when working with him on something else of a nautical nature. That minister is still in the Government, but again did not listen.

The only way something may be done is for society to complain at the ballot box. How sad is it that the Government that is so keen on regulations for everything else, stands by and does nothing when so many people are involved in accidents or die on our coasts every year because there are no regulations to stop it.

They do not even help the RNLI. The very people that risk their lives to save seaside novices are volunteers, depending on donations. Perhaps if the RNLI and other volunteer rescue services etc were funded by a Government department, tied to a budget and answerable to the voter, they may think twice and bring in regulations to try to prevent the annual madness of seaside accidents and deaths.

I can now sit comfortably in my lounge, and laze in my bed not wondering if the phone may ring because none of it will affect me, just like the majority of society. But not long ago, usually at some ungodly hour I may get a call saying that the police launch Ashburton for example had found a body. So I would have to go in.

Last Christmas at my granddaughters party, one of her friends is a member of the Freshwater inshore lifeboat. They are independent of the RNLI, but depend on donations of course just the same. He was on call, ready to go at any minute, and agreed with everything I said because just about all the rescues he was involved in were people who had no idea what they were doing.

It is a major problem, and one that society is doing nothing about.

Far easier to criticise the minority of loan sailors, than tackle the real problem? [=P]

Every year during the summer holidays, I say that a child will not go back to school, drowned at our seaside's. I do not expect this year to be any different. (Cloud)


David

Cisco
3rd August 2009, 23:07
Again, this whole thing is not being put into perspective. If experienced solo yachties acting illegally is such a major issue, then for goodness sake lets please begin at home concentrating on the majority, before lambasting the few. Its the high profile few who encourage many of the majority

Solos yachties are being criticised for acting illegally but shouldn't we be concentrating on bringing in laws closer to home first by stopping unqualified people taking a vessel of any size out to sea?. That idea has considerable merit but there are lots of licensed idiots out there in many different fields. If half the road deaths are caused by drunks the other half are caused by sober people who can't drive. OK I know that is over simplification These are the people who put themselves and rescuers at risk, not the solo yachties. Tell that to the men of the Armada de Chile who not infrequently have to rescue solo sailors in Chile's offshore southern waters These are the people who are constantly being saved, who are putting others lives at risk on a daily basis in the high season on our coasts, and who were entered into my mortuary register, who I myself cut up at post mortem every year, not solo yachties, but people who were acting legally, and able to do so. Surely, if we are so hell bent on sticking to the law regarding solo yachties, then we should bring out new laws to stop this annual madness that see hundreds of people rescued on a regular basis around our coasts annually, and people like me cutting up young kids who's parents let them take a small RIB out only to lose them, adults drowning on a regular basis, putting our rescue services at risk and at full stretch. They were not always found at the time washing up later decomposed. I had several of those every year.

I personally am not for or against solo yachties. All I do know is that I have certainly never had one in my mortuary, and neither has my former colleagues around the country to my knowledge. It must surely have happened worldwide, but I do not recall any. But the law of averages must surely say that some lost their lives, but not at the same level as on our coastline every year. That is the difference. Once again, that needs to be put in perspective, ie number of solo sailors out there v number of 'sailors' swanning around on the Solent in the summer.

I do however know that I saw more deaths from around our coasts than most of people acting legally, and indeed dealing directly with them and the relatives. Yet, they should not have been allowed to do what they did, the law should have prevented it because just about every death was totally avoidable. Licencing won't stop it although it may reduce it. Typical small boat licencing in countries where it is required involves multichoice questions that the brain dead could pass with no practical aptitude test

Before lambasting the few, lets stop the annual madness of avoidable deaths around our coasts because any Tom Dick and Harry can take a boat out. If acting illegally is such a major problem of those I never had in my mortuary, lets start doing something about the people I did. And over 20 years, they would be way into three figures, with no solo sailors.

So please, lets put this into perspective. I don't need to read papers, I was up to my eyes in it living on the coast.

Again, I would urge members to watch Seaside Rescues on BBC1 this Wednesday to see what the rescue services have to contend with every day of the week. It should be an eye opener.

By the way, there has already been an incident at Cowes Week involving a spectator RIB.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/8180804.stm

David
Solo sailors as such don't bother me but the legality question was asked. They do get lost at sea, usually just posted missing. I lose no sleep over them ....they made their choice. Darwin at work I guess.

Cisco
3rd August 2009, 23:17
David, any chance you can source a breakdown of the causes of death by drowning in the UK? Number involving power boats, yachts, suicide, washed of rocks, fell in, went swimming but can't swim, blown away on an airbed, any of the above while intoxicated, etc?
Cheers
Frank
RNLI Offshore member.

Pompeyfan
3rd August 2009, 23:17
Solo sailors as such don't bother me but the legality question was asked. They do get lost at sea, usually just posted missing. I lose no sleep over them ....they made their choice. Darwin at work I guess.

Cisco

Many thanks for answering. Even if licensing prevents a few deaths, it would be worth it. I don't think the public have any idea how massive the figures are.

Yes, you will not stop all the accidents and deaths at sea whatever regulations are brought in no more than on the roads. But accidents on the roads would be far higher if it was a free for all like it is at sea for the general public.

At some point, I will speak to one of the lone sailors, but not say who just to see what they say about the legalities.

David

smithax
4th August 2009, 13:17
I think there are two separate matters here, both ultimately involving safety.
I totally agree that there should be a licensing system to raise the knowledge and capabilities of amateur yachtsmen. Also there should be regulations regarding safety equipment carried. Possibly, also giving the MCA powers to prevent unqualified people proceeding to sea in unsafe boats, inadequately equipped.
What I was doing was starting a discussion on the legalities of solo yachtsmen. I didnít have in mind someone popping across the channel, but the semi professional who goes on long voyages of several weeks. Some of these vessels are quite large and travel at high speeds. The thought of the only person having a sleep whilst a substantial vessel is travelling at 15kts is a little unnerving.
By all means letís start a discussion on licensing, and safety equipment, but let the discussion on solo yachties continue, assuming anybody wants to

Bill Davies
4th August 2009, 21:45
Possibly, also giving the MCA powers to prevent unqualified people proceeding to sea in unsafe boats, inadequately equipped.

Is this a Joke!!

Cisco
4th August 2009, 22:16
By all means letís start a discussion on licensing, and safety equipment, but let the discussion on solo yachties continue, assuming anybody wants to
Righto....back on track it is then...
The single handed cruising yachtsman ( to give him his full and correct title ) on a long sea voyage is really of no danger to anyone but himself. Likewise the couples who shorten sail at sunset and turn in for the night. If they run into something they are going to well and truly come off second best. I've tried to impress on people for years that a piddly little sidelight isn't going to be seen on a crappy night in a heavy sea but people will still tell you that in heavy weather they will heave to, go below and turn in. Their problem not mine.

The hotshot high profile round the world single handed wankers are a different matter.. yes they do seem to survive although a goodly number do lose their boats and the occasional one disappears. Their boats are a hazard to others... ... OK the risk may be small but it still exists and I have heard a few reports of smaller yachts coming close to being run down at night by larger faster yachts that single handed or not weren't keeping an efficient lookout. They tell us that they go around the world simply taking 20 minute naps the whole way..... oh OK. 20 minutes kip in big chair in the navigatorium, open eyes.. look at radar, 20 minutes kip...... right...that'll work!

My main issue is probably that they are idolised by parts of the yachting press, esp Yachting World , and are set up as role models for the great unwashed who then set off singlehanded and die....

Pompeyfan
4th August 2009, 22:24
I think there are two separate matters here, both ultimately involving safety.
I totally agree that there should be a licensing system to raise the knowledge and capabilities of amateur yachtsmen. Also there should be regulations regarding safety equipment carried. Possibly, also giving the MCA powers to prevent unqualified people proceeding to sea in unsafe boats, inadequately equipped.
What I was doing was starting a discussion on the legalities of solo yachtsmen. I didn’t have in mind someone popping across the channel, but the semi professional who goes on long voyages of several weeks. Some of these vessels are quite large and travel at high speeds. The thought of the only person having a sleep whilst a substantial vessel is travelling at 15kts is a little unnerving.
By all means let’s start a discussion on licensing, and safety equipment, but let the discussion on solo yachties continue, assuming anybody wants to

like I say, I will try to speak to a solo sailor this week to see what they say, but I tend to stay away from Cowes Week these days for mobility reasons.

Somebody needs to be given powers to stop people unqualified people in unsafe boats and poor or equipment going out, but policing it will not be easy, and need more resources. This present Government is good at talking, and the minister indicated they will be getting tougher, but I felt that working with him on another nautical was like Sir Humphrey in Yes Minister, plenty of waffle, but nothing achieved [=P]

Whatever the legalities of solo yachties, when you see some of them close up you wonder how the hell they manage out there in those big yachts where brawn as well as brain is needed. Some are so small. Whatever ones thoughts on their sailing alone regarding safety etc, these people have immense courage. Indeed without people like this, mankind would not have achieved what we have, reaching the poles, climbing mountains, landing on the moon and so on. To achieve things like that you are taking risks, putting yours and others lives at risk, but also proving just what the human male and female are capable of. We need eccentric people, explorers, those who take risks for the benefit of mankind in general.

If we wrapped ourselves up in cotton wool, didn't take any risks or test ourselves to the limit, explore new places and so on, we may live longer, but achieve nothing.

There is a difference between a well planned expedition or solo yacht race and stupidity where a person takes to the sea on the spur of the moment without a clue of what they are doing.

David

Cisco
4th August 2009, 22:35
Is this a Joke!!
Why so?
In Oz the states look after these matters. Tasmania had a problem with losing people, mainly from small 'tinnies' ( alloy runabouts ) on freshwater lakes. Introduced licensing... a one off exam and a one off lifetime fee. Also simple requirements... positive buoyancy in tinnies, lifejackets to be worn at all times in open boats under about 6 metres , etc . Good common sense stuff.

The state of Victoria on the other hand introduced an annual licensing fee coupled with a raft of nanny state regs... such as 'if you are on a yacht with a reef in the sail you will wear a lifejacket' . This rapidly degenerated into a revenue raising exercise with the water police simply going out on the weekend to book punters whose paperwork wasn't in order. License for the boat driver, the boat, the tender, fishing license...yes a fishing license for fishing in the sea.

Despite being a Master FG, etc etc etc... I can't legally take the helm of a small power boat or yacht under power in that state. That's one of the reasons I cleared out to Chile

Ron Stringer
4th August 2009, 23:21
... people will still tell you that in heavy weather they will heave to, go below and turn in. Their problem not mine.

Well you may say that Cisco but I am not so sure that the guys who were on the Bridge of the Pride of Bilbao the night that the yacht Ouzo was lost would see it that way. It suddenly became their problem in a big way and they were heavily penalised.

Pompeyfan
4th August 2009, 23:30
Why so?
In Oz the states look after these matters. Tasmania had a problem with losing people, mainly from small 'tinnies' ( alloy runabouts ) on freshwater lakes. Introduced licensing... a one off exam and a one off lifetime fee. Also simple requirements... positive buoyancy in tinnies, lifejackets to be worn at all times in open boats under about 6 metres , etc . Good common sense stuff.

The state of Victoria on the other hand introduced an annual licensing fee coupled with a raft of nanny state regs... such as 'if you are on a yacht with a reef in the sail you will wear a lifejacket' . This rapidly degenerated into a revenue raising exercise with the water police simply going out on the weekend to book punters whose paperwork wasn't in order. License for the boat driver, the boat, the tender, fishing license...yes a fishing license for fishing in the sea.

Despite being a Master FG, etc etc etc... I can't legally take the helm of a small power boat or yacht under power in that state. That's one of the reasons I cleared out to Chile

Good to see that some countries at leased are trying to do something about the problem.

David

Pat Thompson
5th August 2009, 00:00
Greetings,

I am becoming increasingly dispairing of the way this thread is going so think on this

If you have laws, police and obey them.
If you don't have laws you have anarchy
If you don't police the laws you have why have them in the first place
If you make exceptions to the laws you have you have to include everybody within the exceptions and then why bother having them in the first place.
It doesn't matter how many people get killed, maimed, injured or have their lipstick smudged if you have a law that law must be obeyed, that's why they call it a law (simple init).
If you don't obey the Law you are, de facto, in breach of it.
If you conspire with others to break the law you are, by definition, guilty of conspiricy.
If you conspire, with others to accept breaches of the Law you are, by definintion, guilty of conspiricy.
If you impose the Law on one group of people you must similarly impose it on every group of people, to fail to do so is to discriminate.
To discriminate is an anathema to Common Law, as a Nation we have spent countless millions of taxpayers money in the quest to remove discrimination of any form.

The appologists, and there seems to be a considerable number, for the Lone Yachties/Law breakers seek to justify the actions of the Lone Yachties/Law breakers by suggesting that at worst they will be victims of their own foolhardiness. Bol*ocks they breaking the Law and if the upholders of the Law fail to take action against them then, those self same upholders of the Law, who probably were instrumental in the creation of the law in the first place, are remiss, lacking and hypocritical beyond belief. The hypocracy being compounded by selective application of the Law. It is patently obvious that the blindfold worn by Justice on top of the Old Bailey has slipped!

How about this then, I would like to be the first person to drive from Leeds to London down the M1 Motorway at 90mph whilst asleep. Let us assume I actually achieved this aim fatuous as it is. I then sell my story to the Nationals, queue up outside the Palace for my gong and suggest that my next expendition is to fly around the world backwards in transoceanic flight paths using a specially converted Ford Anglia in order to prove that the Vikings did it in 500AD in their quest to prove that Carlsberg Lager could be brewed at 40,000 feet without the use of oxygen masks. Apart from the probability that Ford and Carlsberg would sponsor the venture I would, more than likely, get a one way ticket to Rampton or Broadmoor. However should I announce that I intended to sail single handedly around the world in clear, flagrant and unequivoval breach of the CollRegs I would be hailed as a hero. There would, of course, be those who would be polishing, and possibly gold plating, their mortuary slabs in anticipation of the fallen hero's return, there would be the armchair expert's, (to plagiarise the term from another thread), blaming the wicked big ship driver for running me down and there would be the inevitable inquest, chaired of course by the upholders of the Law, damming the ship that did it and removing the Certificate of Competency from the Master and Watchkeeper for failing to keep a lookout.

So what do you want, the rule of law, enshrined in this case by the Rule of the Road or anarchy. In a well ordered society there is no choice.

Ron Stringer
5th August 2009, 09:38
Makes sense to me, Pat.

Could you please give me fair warning of your planned expedition on the M1? I am an occasional user and would like to ensure that I would not risk interfering with your admirable project.

Pat Thompson
5th August 2009, 09:46
Greetings,

Ron, I actually did on Monday and as nobody was hurt it must be OK. I will however be signing autographs outside the Palace when I get the call so I look forward to seeing you then.
By the way do you know where I can buy an old and upright Ford Anglia?

Ron Stringer
5th August 2009, 10:17
By the way do you know where I can buy an old and upright Ford Anglia?

Pat,

Not being an aficianado of the model, I am not sure which version you require. You could try any of these

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C40521/

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C102141/

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C105949/

I hope that one of them might suit your purpose.

kevinmurphy
11th August 2009, 08:25
A few years ago whilst visiting a friend who was a college lecturer, he was giving GMDSS classes to some wafi drivers on a sunday, when I popped in to see him there was a revision session going on before the exam, i sat in and helped out a bit, one guy when asking about distress signals complained that the GMDSS book did not give details of anything other than "mayday" etc, I pointed out that in the "Col regs" there is an annexe with a variety of these methods.
Never heard of them, was the reply. Resisting the urge to explode, i asked this guy what his sailing experience was, seemed he had a power boat value about £300K, he was going to do some navigation & stuff later, he just left the river and went up the coast a bit each weekend, if he could afford such a boat one would assume he has a fair bit of intelligence to have made the money to splash around. But none was displayed in his thoughts on sailing.

Sadly as our industry is does not get the respect it deserves from the general public it is thought that sailing/navigation is simple quote from my landlady when doing mate/masters "why do you need to go to college for 9 months to learn to steer a ship" that in a port town.

I spent 10 yrs as Master running Thames to Zeebrugge, so daily in narrow channels, had quite a few situations with the leisure sailors, who thought they had right of way, or just did not have a clue

With the declining standards that we see going on, I think that the leisure sailor indeed many are unaware of how little modern watchkeepers look out of the window. I had to continually push my watchkeepers (from an imo white list approved country) to look out and not just stare at the radar.

I recently did a survey, where it took the Master of a supply boat (many miles away from the North sea... very warm, humid & sandy) 20 minutes to find the button for the ships whistle....very sad but thats life nowadays.
Kev

Cisco
11th August 2009, 08:47
seemed he had a power boat value about £300K, he was going to do some navigation & stuff later, he just left the river and went up the coast a bit each weekend, if he could afford such a boat one would assume he has a fair bit of intelligence to have made the money to splash around. But none was displayed in his thoughts on sailing.

Kev

A typical Lombard* by the sound of it... lots of them out there in all walks of life

*Lombard.... Lots Of Money But A Real D*ickhead

JimC
13th August 2009, 17:10
My last job was as Harbour Master having spent my previous years deep sea.
Like all deep water men, I had a poor opinion of solo sailors. Principally because I knew nothing about them. I see not a few similar people on this thread.

First: many sailors today are real sailors..they can 'sail' as well as 'steam' along. Equally as many are skilled in the handling of their gear. These facts are not in dispute. However, very many of them have been 'tarred with the same swashbuckling brush'. The Rules were developed and improved over many years. Their prime purpose is to avoid accidents and protect life and limb.
'Dame' this or 'Sir' that has no god-given right to ignore any rule that does not suit them at a particular time - no matter how illustrious the name may be as the result of having been artificially illuminated by the media.
What other actions of a Solo sailor might be described as 'just good' fun and the exercising of an adventurous spirit? From the sublime to the rediculous: would the same 'sailor' is allowed to 'sail' a ship without a plimsole line?

There was a sailing club located at the outer end of the narrow channel leading into my port. One day I looked across the harbour an saw a fleet of small sailing boats occupying the entire channel. They had a safety boat in attendance. As I looked, a small motor vessel entered the channel. He began zig-zagging through the fleet and at one point I saw the safety boat approach him at speed and travel alongside for a time. I was too far away to personally intervene. Eventually the motor vessel berthed and I boarded him.
I was met by a white faced skipper who demanded to know if there were any safety rules which favoured sailing vessel in the harbour. It transpired that the safety boat skipper had ranted and raved at the other skipper, demanding that he keep his vessel clear of the sailing craft which contained young trainees. I had not been long in the job but I can assure you very big changes were made immediately regarding that situation and it never happened again.
The point of the story is that the safety boat skipper was a senior member of the yacht club and highly experienced yachtsman. Even he could not grasp the concept of why he had the word 'safety' writen in large letters along both sides of his boat.

It has been suggested here that large vessels cause more serious accidents than do little ones. What should be pointed-out is that the people operating those large vessels did not have their accidents by choice or in the main - due to ignorance. Can this be said for the solo sailor?
The bottom line is that a person who ignores the rules is more likely to have an accident than the one who obeys them. Additionally, when the former gets in trouble because of his or her actions in ignoring said rules; others have to put their lives on the line to get such people out of trouble. Now surely that can't be right?

JimC
13th August 2009, 17:37
Since this thread deals with yachts, it just might get me an answer to a question which is puzzling me.

A couple of days ago, the media reported that a lady looking like Victoria Beckham had bee seen acting in an agitated manner at the marina in Barcelona 72 hours after Madelene McCann was abducted. It was suggested she might have had something to do with the it and that the little one had been taken on a yacht from the area of Praia da Luz in the early hours of the morning after Maddie went missing and the yach was due in Barcelona the day the VB lookalike was spotted.

I believe Praia da Luz is about 700 odd miles from Barcelona, that the prevailinng wind was from the east (Levanter) and that there was a 1 knot current running to the westward along the north side of the straights of Gib at the time.
Can any one of you 'sailors' work out what courses and average speed you would need to make to do the trip in 72 hours or even 96 hours? When you've done it, you might like to pass it on to Clarence Mitchell. It might save those poor parents a bunch of money!

China hand
13th August 2009, 18:25
Ah Kevin, it was ever thus(K)

The big speak in the papers here in NL is that a 13 year old girl is going to do a solo round the world trip, in a boat called Guppy, and sit her next school exams in the process. I'm sure the various gentlemen hanging around on her route will be impressed. If I broke the law at that age, my Dad clouted me (or Mum, but someone). Solo sailing for more than a few hours is law breaking ( efficient lookout and all that). Daddy says she is very able and he is proud of her.

China's opinion? Daddy is a pillock.

Only my opinion, of course.

spongebob
13th August 2009, 22:59
China, this news will knock the wind out of the sails of 15 year old Australian Jessica Watson who plans to set out on a circumnavigation next month and as mentioned in my post #47.
This may give Jessica an out as her ambition was to be the youngest yet or maybe it will encourage a 12 year old to give it a go!
Next we may have an ocean of kids out there.

Bob

Stephen J. Card
14th August 2009, 08:23
Since this thread deals with yachts, it just might get me an answer to a question which is puzzling me.

It was suggested she might have had something to do with the it and that the little one had been taken on a yacht from the area of Praia da Luz in the early hours of the morning after Maddie went missing and the yach was due in Barcelona the day the VB lookalike was spotted.

I believe Praia da Luz is about 700 odd miles from Barcelona, that the prevailinng wind was from the east (Levanter) and that there was a 1 knot current running to the westward along the north side of the straights of Gib at the time.
Can any one of you 'sailors' work out what courses and average speed you would need to make to do the trip in 72 hours or even 96 hours? When you've done it, you might like to pass it on to Clarence Mitchell. It might save those poor parents a bunch of money!



Ah, but you are assuming that the 'yacht' was a 'blowboat'. It might have been a motor yacht... making no more than 10 or 12 knots. No?

Stephen

JimC
14th August 2009, 12:51
Hi Stephen!

Right on the money! I now read today that it was a 'luxury yacht' owned by an Australian lady. At 12 knots constant, it might just have made it.

Jim

MARINEJOCKY
16th August 2009, 01:24
I believe it was a 105 or 108 Sunseeker that was owned by the Aussies, either vessel will "cruise" at about 30 knots. We sea trialed a 108 last week and it topped out at 39.2 knots but only has a 450 mile range at that speed. The 105 I checked out did 27.7 knots and a range of about 500 miles.

oceangoer
9th September 2009, 23:13
China, this news will knock the wind out of the sails of 15 year old Australian Jessica Watson who plans to set out on a circumnavigation next month and as mentioned in my post #47.
This may give Jessica an out as her ambition was to be the youngest yet or maybe it will encourage a 12 year old to give it a go!
Next we may have an ocean of kids out there.

Bob

This child set out on her first trial run down to Sydney ex Qld 8/9/09. First night at sea in a busy shipping lane she went below (single handed) for a sleep and got twatted by a Chinese bulker at 0230. It's bad enough giving women driving licences, but letting them go to sea by themselves ?????

Prudence
10th September 2009, 03:49
I agree with Pat...Police the laws on this one.
The child has not reached the legal age of consent where she can enter into a contract. So....who made the contract with the TV station and how vigorously did that TV station flog off the TV time space to advertisers? Are they collectively contributing to "conduct endangering life", a concept we have in law in Victoria? I don't know if recent reviews of Queensland legislation have added this concept to their criminal code.
Do the tax payers again have to fork out for diversion of Navy ships to rescue, in dangerous, waters South of 40 to 60 degrees? Our navy is pretty busy at the current time.
I don't know what she was doing alone, sailing out of "The Broadwater" from Southport anyway! When I was a kid you had to have a special ticket to take a launch from there to Frazer island or Stradbroke Island...Maybe this has all changed.
Hopefully she will see sense, apply for the Navy or some good Mercantile Marine School and learn it proper and then see the world. We or most of us had dreams at sixteen...that doesn't mean we had or have free go to put them into practice not the ability to do so. When my kids were little one in particular would pack a bag to leave home. I always reminded that one of the vegemite and the toothbrush and the swag of 300 or so one cent pieces they could hardly lift...they never got past the front gate...Hopefully, just hopefully as Mum was up waiting for the call obviously..just hopefully
the lass has had her big adventure. Prudence

Archie2009
10th September 2009, 06:06
Hi just pinched the following from the Sydney Morning Herald's website on Jessica Watson's sailing adventure.
"JESSICA WATSON is still confident of becoming the youngest person to sail solo around the world after a collision with a cargo ship badly damaged her yacht during a trial run for her ambitious voyage.

The 16-year-old schoolgirl, was below deck at 2.30am yesterday when her 10.4-metre sloop, Pink Lady, collided with the 63,000-tonne bulk carrier Silver Yang off the southern Queensland coast.

However, she won't say whether or not she was asleep at the time."
http://www.smh.com.au/national/shock-sinks-in-for-schoolgirl-sailor-20090909-fhn3.html

I have a feq questions if anybody can help
1. How can you keep a safe lookout and get some rest at the same time?.
2. Does the STCW rest hours rules apply to yachties as well?

Archie2009
10th September 2009, 06:12
Just when I thought that it was the only one. here is another one. Some common sense prevailed here I guess

http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/authorities-seek-to-stop-dutch-girls-solo-sailing-dreams/2009/08/25/1251001885082.html

Prudence
26th September 2009, 11:50
The Marine Board's Safety Report on Jessica's trip and collision was handed out today. Newsreel footage was on television several times. Prudence

Naytikos
29th September 2009, 06:48
I have several yacht-encounter stories but will risk boring the readers of this thread with only one: A laden VLCC from PG to Aruba, off the coast of Brazil. Around 0100 the 2nd mate reports a bright flashing light off the port bow. Drifting buoys can sometimes be found in those waters, but not usually with the light still operating. Small echo on the radar which didn't appear to have any appreciable motion. Alter course slightly to pass closer and at about a mile can see the outline of a mast and sails in the moonlight. Alter course again and when the bow is abeam the yacht at half a cable distance, sound the forward fog-horn. The timing was such that as the bridge passed, a naked man and woman appeared in the cockpit of the yacht staring up at us. I have often wondered who they were, and if they ever went to sea again.

JimC
8th October 2009, 18:43
Couldn't care less if this silly little ***** or any other lunatic thinks so little of their life that they want to loose it or (better still in their weak minds) nearly loose it. I would much rather hear about all those wonderful selfless people who don't give a toss about image or reward but most certainly care about their fellow human beings and perhaps take risks to help them.
Let's hear more about the heros of this world - the ones who only think of others, give up the cozy life to help others, avoid ripping others off, protect the helpless and weaker memers of society etc., etc. Bt we'll never hear about the 16 year old girl who sailed round the world for charity!
However I did hear about a couple in the south who are helping their 9 year old son to construct a raft out of empty 5 ltr. plastic water bottles which he intends to use to try and be the first 9 year old to circumnavigate the world via the North West Passage. The proud parents are saving up all their gyro money to ensure their wonderboy is supplied with enough fags and alcho- pop for the entire trip.
To get around education rules, the Gvernment have declared the attempt;
' adventure in education'. They also have calculated that the trip will save the taxpayer a considerable amount of money. It will keep
the child of the streets and out of the shops (he has 64 previous convictions for shop-lifting)
There's a down-side however. Videos, films or pictures of the trip will not be allowed unless taken by one or other of the parents - this to ensure sensitive material does not fall into the hands of paedophiles. The press and other officials have been warned in advance against any attempt of engaging the lad in 'high 5' greetings at the end of the trip.