The Knowledge

alan eccleston
16th August 2009, 02:51
Read recently on SN about diesels without camshafts, can't imagine the complexity at my age, could some kind person explain to a Xsteamer.

Great general reading thank you all. Best Regards Alan Eccleston

spongebob
16th August 2009, 03:02
A quick but inadequate answer could be that the engine is a two stroke.

Bob

JoK
16th August 2009, 03:47
Hydraulic lifters on the valves.

Everything is electronically controlled for the load. And that is about all I know.

surfaceblow
16th August 2009, 06:12
The MAN B & W has some literature on the camless engines

http://www.mandiesel.com/files/news/filesof2054/p387_0201.pdf

Satanic Mechanic
16th August 2009, 07:24
Ok you lot - let me know if you want the full low down - I have a lot of literature on them that I ca send you.

Basically the fuel injection is common rail with electronic actuation, the exhaust valves are hydraulic (they have been for years) but now with electronic actuation as is the Cylinder lube oil injection. What it means is you can optimise the engine for any given condition using electronic mapping - it is clever stuff but even the most forward thinking guys worry about the shear amount of electronics required.

charles henry
16th August 2009, 14:12
I am clueless with regards to engines but I do know that diesel engines are much less complex than gasoline. My experience with diesels as follow:-
a) Used a little kabota tractor with a 14 hp diesel, it had a front end loader,
a rear take off which I used with a 5 foot grass (bush) cutter, or a four foot rototiller. Marvelous machine, used it for twenty years with NO problems.

Pushed the boat out and bought a Mercedes SDL350 with 3.5 liter diesel engine.
Drove it for 15 years, 350,000 kilometers. Total maintenance apart from oil, changed the glow plug once, changed the cylinder feed line once, had two brake jobs. Presently using an E class diesel but too new to comment.

Frankly (ignoring inititial extra cost) the use of petrol engines is assinine.
Consider, any business dependant on wheels being turned, (Trains, trucks)
uses diesel engines.
de chas

Satanic Mechanic
16th August 2009, 15:14
Chas

Its not quite that straight forward - there is a cross over point when it comes to power to weight ratios where diesels are only ones to go for, below that point petrol engines are actually rather/very good, when it comes to large engines there is only one way to go for a number of reasons but not least of all fuel type. In saying that the operating cycle of the petrol engine which is the Otto cycle in its four stroke form is ideal for dual fuel engines using gas (methane) with compression ignition from a pilot injector.

Also diesel engines are every bit as complex as petrols but in different ways

K urgess
16th August 2009, 16:03
This appears to be more to do with the engine room than BP in particular so has been moved there.

eldersuk
17th August 2009, 00:12
Charles Henry in post#6 claims to be "clueless about engines". Believe me, so am I these days and I was a motorship Chief Engineer 15 years ago.

Derek

Doxfordman
17th August 2009, 03:19
Try this site - it give pretty simple explantions for the "canshaftless" engine and lots of other stuff marine engineering related. Think the site is attached to Warsash? Anyway it's good stuff.

http://www.marinediesels.info/index.html

Billieboy
17th August 2009, 08:17
With today's electronics, which include continuous electronic carding of each stroke of each unit, the balancing of a cam-less main engine must be a piece of cake. With the added electronic control of piston lubrication, getting down to trial figures should save lots of lube oil too. I think that I'd still be worried about some idiot spilling his tea onto a pile of cards, which would result in a two ball epic and tugs everywhere!(EEK)

Philthechill
17th August 2009, 08:35
Being a curious sort of cove, and fascinated by owt about engines, I gave the marine-diesels web-site a quick coat of looking at, re. camshaftless engines and found the explanation both lucid and quite an eye-opener!!

Thinking I would be able to further my knowledge (although for what point I've no idea as I ain't contemplating resurrecting my sea-going career!!) by joining their web-site as a full-on Member (to gain access to many more "papers") I looked at the costings involved but, at 15 per quarter, I decided it wasn't really "cost-effective".

However I reasoned that the owners of the site (Warsash?) might be amenable to the idea of roping-in some ex-engineers (such as myself and the myriad others who inhabit SN!) at a special OAP rate so I sent an e-mail to that effect! I'll put any answers on here should they deign to reply!!! Salaams, "Poverty-stricken pensioner" Phil(Hippy)

spongebob
17th August 2009, 09:01
Charles, I had a little hydrostatic Kubota tractor with a 3 cylinder 20hp diesel. used it for 8 years developing 3 acres and in spite of a lot of work it was still like new when I sold the property. Regular oil and filter changes were all it had.
However the driver was not so good once or twice and I an trying to write a story under the Thread "Have you ever done anything Stupid"

Bob

charles henry
17th August 2009, 15:11
bob jenkins;
However the driver was not so good once or twice and I an trying to write a story under the Thread "Have you ever done anything Stupid"

Bob

Stupid???? let me count the ways..... However regarding tractors, you have not lived until you have a front end bucket buried in a pile of something and suddenly realise you are "balanced" on one wheel. You look at the bucket control realising if you move it the wrong way .....,

Then again there was the time I had fun filling a little "trailer" with manure.
I then hitched it to the tractor and found I could not move it. On inspection
I found that as I had been loading the trailer it had been sinking in the soft
earth and was sitting flat on the ground with the wheels buried....

de chas

Don Matheson
17th August 2009, 15:39
Bob and De Chas I feel you may find that driving such as you guys have mentioned may be one of the reasons that manufacturers are fighting to improve the electronics of the engine.
It may not be the only reason but I am sure it will be high up there.

Went out to a job in Indonesia a few years ago where if the locals were changing even an injector the old ones number had to be deleted from the computer and the new part number entered, and yes, I found out the hard way that if you did not do this the engine would not start.

Don

Pat Kennedy
17th August 2009, 15:58
There is a very good video at this link;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unAsUugK9zw&feature=related

It shows an eight cylinder, double acting, B&W engine which was installed in a Copenhagen power station in 1932.
the video features a commentary by the managing director of MAN B&W as the engine is started up and brought up to full speed.

Chief Engineer's Daughter
17th August 2009, 18:18
Kubota tractor has nothing on my 45 year old 35X Massey Ferguson, my wee baby......

roboted
17th August 2009, 19:30
There is a very good video at this link;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unAsUugK9zw&feature=related

It shows an eight cylinder, double acting, B&W engine which was installed in a Copenhagen power station in 1932.
the video features a commentary by the managing director of MAN B&W as the engine is started up and brought up to full speed.

And 71 years on....(EEK)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4anPYRRHhY