DAVID ELDER of ELDER DEMPSTER CO 1951

NancyElderPetersen
16th August 2009, 23:19
Researching ELDER family involved in
ELDER DEMPSTER COMPANY in 1900's -
Found:
British National Archives -shiplists
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=-4423700&CATLN=7&accessmethod=5
1951
Liverpool: MV Sherbro (Elder Dempster Lines Ltd)
travelling from Takoradi to Liverpool.
Embarking at Takoradi, Bathurst and Madeira.
Official Number: 181103.
List of passengers disembarking at Liverpool.
Covering dates 1951 Apr 16
Availability Open Document, Open Description, Open Immediately
Held by The National Archives, Kew

**
DOES ANYONE KNOW THE PARENTS of this ELDER family in 1900's?
Ships List from British National Archives
http://www.findmypast.com/passengerListPersonSearchStart.action

1951 ..........................born.................... .sailed to Africa from:
ELDER David Stewart 1908 M 1951 Liverpool
....... Ghana (Gold Coast) Sekondi-Takoradi
ELDER Elspeth Morris 1903 F 1951 Liverpool
....... Ghana (Gold Coast) Sekondi-Takoradi
ELDER Albert James 1926 M 1951 Liverpool
....... Ghana (Gold Coast) Sekondi-Takoradi
ELDER Herbert Pullar 1909 M 1951 Liverpool
....... Nigeria Lagos
ELDER John Joseph Sedman 1898 M 1951 London
...... Mozambique Beira

Family History: John ELDER of Glasgow (1824-1869) , Steamship builder,
and his brother Alexander ELDER of Liverpool,
said to have no children - may have cousins in Kinross branch?
posting info and links
at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/Steamships.htm

--Nancy Elder Petersen, Retired Librarian
ELDER family historian
Vancouver, WA USA
Host, ELDER DNA project
Results:
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Elder

eldersuk
17th August 2009, 00:39
I very much doubt if the Elder family travelling from Takoradi to Liverpool on the Sherbro have any direct relationship with John or Alexander Elder.
It was Alexander who was involved in the birth of Elder Dempster and as far as I know there was no family member who was heir to his interests in the company.

Also, it should be realised that the Sherbro was a nondescript cargo/passenger ship and would hardly have been the transport of choice for anyone as important as a descendent of Alexander Elder.

Regards, Derek

NancyElderPetersen
17th August 2009, 06:09
Thanks for commenting about the David ELDER on the Sherbro.

Here's where I found 2 more clues to a possible ELDER involved
in 1951 and 1976:

From book: TRADE MAKERS:
Page vii. Foreword
"On my final business visit to Nigeria in 1993, over forty-two years after
my first voyage to sea with ELDER on the Sherbro, I was reminded yet
again that in spite of extremely difficult problems and an
often hostile atmosphere, my management involvement with E.D. Lines
(the title by which the company is still fondly remembered in West Africa)
over the past two decades invariably ensured that positive solutions were found in a friendly atmosphere..."
K. H. Birch, Managing Director, 1984-1989.
(First voyage 1951)

Who is the DAVID ELDER living in 1976?
From book: TRADE MAKERS: ELDER DEMPSTER...
Page 360
Re: OCEAN GROUP
... "These developments also affected the position of Elder Dempster within
the Group. Although the process of integration would continue, the operations of its day-to-day business remained largely in its own hands.
But the decline of Ocean's other cargo-liner trades led to a growing interchange of staff and vessels;
for example, a number of Blue Funnel ships were shifted to West African routes.
The formation in 1976 of an Executive Committee, which was given responsibility for the overall control and investment decisions of the Group, was a further step in the merger process.
Fortunately, (Sir) Geoffrey Ellerton, formerly Chairman of Elder Dempster Lines, became a member alongside Sir Lindsay Alexander and David Elder, so it may be safely assumed that West African
interests always received a fair hearing...."
**
More about Kinross cousins, who may have had interests in
ELDER DEMPSTER:
From: "A memoir of John Elder, engineer and ship-builder,"
by William John Macquorn Rankine
Publisher: Edinburgh, London, W. Blackwood, 1871.
Digitized book online, University of California:
at
http://www.openlibrary.org/details/memoirofjohnelde00rankiala

Page 1:
"The earliest accounts of the family of ELDER show it
to have flourished in the county of Kinross, in the
east of Scotland, during the sixteenth and seven-
teenth centuries. The leading branch of the family
seems to have been that which possessed the estate
of Arlarie, near the town of Milnathort. There are
on record the names of two JOHN ELDERS of Bal-
bughtie, cadets of the family of Arlarie, one of whom
lived in the sixteenth, and the other in the seven-
teenth century, both forefathers of the subject of
this Memoir.
The line of his direct ancestors for nearly two
centuries affords a remarkable example of a fact
which is more common than is usually supposed--
the hereditary transmission of skill and talent; for
they all practised that art from which (as Fairbairn
tells us) mechanical engineering has sprung--that
of the millwright--and were all remarkable for
ability and success. ..."

Milnathort - Kinross-shire - Photos of ELDER monuments:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/cem/MilnathortCem1.htm
Photo 4: ALEXANDER ELDER MONUMENT:
Erected by ALEXANDER ELDER LIVERPOOL
IN MEMORY OF HIS GRANDPARENTS
ALEXANDER ELDER MILLWRIGHT LITTLE SEGGIE
Died December 1823 Age 72 years
and his wife ELIZABETH MORRISON
Died March 1832 Aged 82 Years

NancyElderPetersen
17th August 2009, 06:35
Using Ancestry.com to search census for any
ELDER of Kinross-shire, posting my notes online
at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/ed/KinrossCensus2.htm

RE: census entries for George ELDER of
Milnathort, Kinross-shire in 1851, 1861, 1871.
Son James F. ( b. 1845) seems to be in Glasgow in 1881,
James' son Charles b. 1876 in Glasgow,
occupation: "Cashier, Mercantile" in 1891.
Charles b. 1876 in Glasgow is "Law Clerk" in 1901.
(He may have marked a career trail there?)

*****
1841
Name: George Elder
Age: 30 [or 34?]
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811 [or 1807?]
Gender: Male
Where born: Kinross, Scotland
Civil Parish: Orwell
County: Kinross
Address: 70 New Sterling Road
Occupation: Woollen H L W
Parish Number: 463
Household Members:
Name Age
George Elder 30
Jane Elder 25 (b. 1816 Kinross)
(Did Jane die before 1851? - Maybe buried in Orwell Kirkyard?)
***

1851 Scotland Census
Name: George Elder
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1807
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Milnathort, Kinrossshire
Parish Number: 463
Civil parish: Orwell
County: Kinross
Address: Northern Half Of The Village Of Milnathort
Occupation: Hand Loom Weaver Woollen
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 100
Line: 12
Roll: CSSCT1851_95
Household Members:
Name Age
George Elder 44
George Elder 1 (b. 1850)
James Elder 6 (b. 1845)
Margaret Elder 4 (b. 1847)
Robert Elder 8 (b. 1843)
Janet Finlay 27 (Sister-in-law) (b. 1824 Kingswood, Kinrossshire)
***

1861
Name: George Elder
Age: 54
Estimated birth year: abt 1807
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Milnathort, Kinrossshire
Registration Number: 463
Registration district: Orwell
Civil parish: Orwell
Town: Milnathort
County: Kinross
Address: Backloan
Occupation: Woolen Weaver
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 166
Line: 1
Roll: CSSCT1861_61
Household Members:
Name Age
George Elder 54
George Elder 11 (Scholar)
Margt Elder 14 (Scholar)
Janet Finlay 38 (House keeper)

***
1871
Name: George Elder
Age: 64
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1807
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Orwell, Kinross
Registration Number: 463
Registration district: Orwell
Civil Parish: Orwell
County: Kinross
Address: Main St
Occupation: Woolen Weaver
ED: 2
Page: 3
Household schedule number: 18
Line: 14
Roll: CSSCT1871_79
Household Members:
Name Age
George Elder 64
George Elder 21
Margarer Elder 24
Janet Sonley 47
Source Citation: Parish: Orwell; ED: 2; Line: 14; Year: 1871.

***
1891
Name: George Elder
Age: 41
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Milnathort, Kinross-Shire
Registration Number: 463
Registration district: Orwell
Civil parish: Orwell
Town: Milnathort
County: Kinross
Address: 25 Main St
Occupation: Millworke (Woollen Spincer)
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 16
Line: 8
Roll: CSSCT1891_142
Household Members:
Name Age
George Elder 41 Head Millworke (Woollen Spincer) (b. Milnathort
1850)
Margaret Elder 44 Sister housekeeper (b. Milnathort, Kinross-Shire)
William Stewart 19 (lodger, bank clerk) (b. Milnathort,
Kinross-Shire)
Alexander S Carnegie 21 (lodger, Assistant Teacher School
(b. Arbroath, Forfarshire 1870)

***

1881
Name: Charles G Elder
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: James F
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/1
Registration district: Bridgeton
Civil Parish: Glasgow Barony
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 117 Greenhead St;
ED: 1
Page: 1 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 3
Line: 14
Roll: cssct1881_214
Household Members:
Name Age
Agnes C Elder 9
Charles G Elder 5
Edith M Elder 1
James F Elder 36
Jane F Elder 7
Mary Elder 35
Source Citation: Parish: Glasgow Barony; ED: 1; Line: 14; Year: 1881.

****
1901
Name: Charles Elder
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: James F
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/4
Registration district: Calton
Civil Parish: Glasgow St James
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 33 Monteith Row
Occupation: Law Clerk
ED: 17
Page: 4
Household schedule number: 15
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1901_280
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Elder 25
Edith M Elder 26
James F Elder 36 HEAD [must be 56]
Jessie Elder 27
John S Elder 19
Mary Elder 55
Annie Jenkins 20
Source Citation: Parish: Glasgow St James; ED: 17; Line: 3; Year:
1901.

**
1901
Name: James F Elder
Age: 36 [56]
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865 [1845]
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Milnathop, Kirkcushire [Milnathort, Kinross-shire]
Registration Number: 644/4
Registration district: Calton
Civil Parish: Glasgow St James
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 33 Monteith Row
Occupation: Cashier Tectile Factory
ED: 17
Page: 3
Household schedule number: 15
Line: 25
Roll: CSSCT1901_280
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Elder 25 (son)
Edith M Elder 26
James F Elder 36 HEAD (must be 56, b. 1845 Milnathort)
Jessie Elder 27
John S Elder 19
Mary Elder 55
Annie Jenkins 20
Source Citation: Parish: Glasgow St James; ED: 17; Line: 25; Year:
1901.

*****
Another son of George ELDER of Milnathort,
also has interesting sons listed in 1901 census:
John P. b. abt 1879, b. Edinburgh (occ: Leather Merchant, Asst)
Robert R. b. abt 1877, b. Edinburgh (occ: teacher)

*****
1901 Scotland Census
Name: Robert Elder (f: George of Milnathort)
Age: 58
Estimated birth year: abt 1843
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Anne
Gender: Male
Where born: Milnathort, Kinrossshire
Registration Number: 685/5
Registration district: Newington
Civil parish: Edinburgh Mayfield
County: Midlothian
Address: 16, Mclaren Road
Occupation: Leather Merchant
ED: 82
Household schedule number: 87
Line: 15
Roll: CSSCT1901_388
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Elder 58 Head (b. Milnathort, Kinrossshire 1843)
Anne Elder 58 wife (b. Edinr, Midlothian 1843)
Jane F Elder 26 daughter ( b. Edinr, Midlothian 1875)
Jessie S Elder 28 daughter (certificated school
teacher,b.Edinr,1873)
John P Elder 22 son (Leather Mercht Asst) (b. Edinr. 1879)
Robt R Elder 24 son (Certificated school teacher) (b. Edinr, 1877)

NancyElderPetersen
17th August 2009, 07:23
Another clue to be followed?

Search Google for "ELSPETH MORRIS ELDER"
found
http://www.africabib.org/book/NAMES_INDEX.htm
Elder, Elspeth Morris (Beveridge) See: Dalton, Heather. The Gold Coast: The Wives Experience...

OCLC (Yale library, Stanford and others) - Requested Interlibrary loan Aug 15
The Gold Coast : the wives' experience :
based on the personal accounts of 25 contributors
Author: Heather Dalton
Publisher: Oxford : Rhodes House Library, 1985.
Series: Report / Oxford Development Records Project, 15
Description: 67p ; 30cm.

eldersuk
21st August 2009, 01:20
I have done a bit of research among some of the old Elder Dempster people with the following result.

The David Elder who is mentioned as a member of the 1976 Executive Committee came to Ocean Fleets from Shell and was subsequently appointed to the board.

The use of the word 'Elder' by Ken Birch in the foreword to 'The Trade Makers' was a well used shorthand way of saying Elder Dempster.

Nobody I have spoken to has any recollection of ever hearing about any descendents of Alexander Elder.

Regards, Derek.

NancyElderPetersen
21st August 2009, 16:30
Thanks so much for the extra info on David ELDER of 1976.

I'll keep looking for any clues that he could be a "KINROSS cousin"
of Alexander and John.

--Nancy Elder Petersen
ELDER DNA project
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Elder

NancyElderPetersen
25th August 2009, 05:02
Following your leads for information about DAVID ELDER of Ocean Group
and history of Elder Dempster Co:

I have just received the book titled:
"Blue Funnel: a history of the Ocean Steam Ship Company"
on Interlibrary loan from East Carolina University, Greenville, NC, USA.
Page 354:
" David Elder, formerly head of Supply Operations Economics and Programming with Shell joined the Board in 1971, and his experience was to prove invaluable in the restructuring necessary to absorb Cory within Ocean."

Online news of Mergers and Acquisitions lawyers,
mentions a DAVID ELDER, joining the firm of
Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP’s Houston office.
"The firm augmented its energy M&A prowess this year with the hire of David Elder, who specialises in working for corporate clients in the energy, oil and gas, chemicals and telecommunications sectors. "

I wrote a query on the AKIN GUMP...LLP Contact webpage,
asking about DAVID ELDER's family history, with reference to
the book,
"Could he be a Scotsman, with family from County of Kinross,
cousins of John ELDER, steamship builder of Glasgow?"

Always hoping they will uncover a connection!
--Nancy Elder Petersen
Co-host, ELDER Family Research Bulletin Board
http://www.familytrail.com/elder/bb

NancyElderPetersen
25th August 2009, 08:21
From "Blue Funnel Legend": book, page 383
Ocean Managers & Directors, 1865-1973
DAVID RENWICK ELDER, 1971-1980

Searched Google Docs: DAVID RENWICK ELDER:
Found in:
http://tinyurl.com/nood7o

Supplement to the London Gazette, Numb. 34888, page 4071
of Tuesday, the 2nd of July, 1940
for Friday, 5 July, 1940

War Office, 5th July, 1940
"The KING has been graciously pleased to approve of the
undermentioned awards for gallant and distinguished services
in action in connection with recent operations:--

The Military Cross:....
Second-Lieutenant DAVID RENWICK ELDER,
The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment),
Territorial Army

--Nancy Elder Petersen
Co-host, ELDER FAMILY RESEARCH Bulletin Board
http://www.familytrail.com/elder/bb

NancyElderPetersen
27th August 2009, 06:02
I just found the BLACK WATCH museum page in Perth, Scotland:
at
http://www.theblackwatch.co.uk
e-mail: info@theblackwatch.co.uk

Sent them a query today:

>RE: The Black Watch: DAVID RENWICK ELDER
Could you tell me anything about parents, family and WWII experience of
2nd Lt. David Renwick ELDER of The Black Watch, with "military cross"?

Source: "War Office, 5th July, 1940"
The KING...for gallant...services:
The Military Cross:....
Second-Lieutenant DAVID RENWICK ELDER
"The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment), Territorial Army"
From Supplement to The London Gazette,
of Tues, the 2nd of July, 1940 Number 34888, p. 4071
Friday 5 July 1940
Google Document online
at
http://tinyurl.com/nood7o

DAVID RENWICK ELDER was a Member of the Board of "OCEAN GROUP"
Shipping company of Liverpool from 1971 - 1980.
He came from Shell to Ocean Group:
" David Elder, formerly head of Supply Operations Economics and Programming with Shell joined the Board in 1971, and his experience was to prove invaluable in the restructuring necessary to absorb Cory within Ocean."

As an ELDER family historian, I am researching
the ELDER family of Kinross-shire and others, including
John ELDER of Glasgow, Steamship builder, and his brother,
Alexander ELDER of Liverpool, founder of ELDER DEMPSTER Company.
My research notes posted
at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~nancyelder/Steamships.htm

--Nancy Elder Petersen
NancyP@Teleport.com
Vancouver, Washington State, USA
Co-host, ELDER Family Research Bulletin Board
http://www.familytrail.com/elder/bb

NancyElderPetersen
1st September 2009, 05:17
Notes for research about Elspeth Morris Elder (nee Beveridge) who married
David Stewart ELDER - travelled to Ghana, 1929-1959.

From: "The Gold Coast: The Wives Experience" (Interlibrary loan from Yale Univ. 8/31/09)
by Heather Dalton, Birmingham, 1985.
Summary of Papers only. 67 pages.

Actual papers from participants filed separately in
Oxford Development Records Project on Education in Ghana,
Rhodes House Library.
List of Papers on Page 63-67.
Page 65:
ELDER, Mrs. Elspeth Morris (nee Beveridge), 1929-59
"Wife of Presbyterian missionary"
ff. 1-5 Memoir (TS) - Aburi, Akwapim (single) 1929-43-?
- Christianborg, Accra (married ) 1947-59

Page 3: "Ten of the 25 wives originally went out to the Gold Coast
to do a job in their own right (including)....Elspeth Elder..."

Page 3: "Elspeth Elder was the wife of the Secretary of the Scottish Missions."
(Summary never mentions his name)

Page 5: "there is a cheerful approach in the memoirs to the stresses of life
in the Gold Coast so one must consider the possibility that those who -
perhaps for reasons of temperament - found the recompenses outweighed the
disadvantages and have been more willing to participate."

Page 8: Regarding families with a tradition of colonial service...
"the most direct link is shown in the case of Mrs. Elder -
"My father and mother and two older cousins were missionaries in West Africa."

Page 9: PREPARATION
"Mrs. Elder mentions the Church of Scotland providing a helpful list of goods
to be bought and taken out - topee, mosquito nets, mosquito boots, etc."

Page 11: TRAVEL
"The accounts of the outward journey illustrate
the early dominance of the Elder Dempster Line..."

Page 12: "Contributors write with affection of the Elder Dempster Line."
"It was particularly "luxurious" for those leaving post-war Britain -- a country of
shortages and rationing."

EDUCATION:
Page 49: " STUDENTS: ...Ridge Church School in Accra where there was such
a good standard of education that on coming home in 1958 they were found
to be a year ahead of their age group.
Also: International School in Accra.

Page 57: "The Ridge Church Choir provided an opportunity for choral singing in Accra
where there were also amateur dramatic groups and open air cinemas.."

Online references:
(Search BEVERIDGE and GHANA)
http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/manuscript/guides/bernernegfile.htm
List photos : Negative 562-67. 1944 Sept. 14. Experiments on odum gall.
Mr. Marshall, Mr. Stevenson & Mr. Beveridge, Gold Coast Forestry Dept..

The Ghana Cookery Book
edited by David Saffery
Publisher: London] : Jeppestown Press, reprinted 2007.
1st pub: 1933.
...includes 8 Recipes by...Mrs. BEVERIDGE, Accra
"One of West Africa's earliest recipe books,
"The Ghana Cookery Book" was first published in Accra in 1933.

The Danish Fort of Accra: Christiansborg Castle, Ghana.
Google Earth photo:
http://www.colonialvoyage.com/googlearth/ghanaaccra.html

GHANA - history of education:
http://education.stateuniversity.com/pages/529/Ghana-HISTORY-BACKGROUND.html
...the Basel (Presbyterian) mission headed for the higher and healthier elevations of the
Akuampim Ridge while keeping its headquarters at Christiansborg near Accra.
"By the 1850s, the Basel missionaries had boarding schools at Christiansborg
and schools on the Akuapem Ridge, including one for girls at Aburi.
At their school at Akropong (also on the ridge), the Basel missionaries trained teachers,
used the schools as agency for the spread of Christianity,
and published an elementary grammar book and dictionary in the local Akan language.
To be sure, the popular linkage of western-style education to
Christian conversion developed from these experiences."
... The Akuapim Range runs from the west of Accra and ends at the gorge
at the Volta River, where the Akosombo Dam on the river has been constructed.

NancyElderPetersen
1st September 2009, 17:48
Received a nice reply from the David ELDER in Houston, Texas.
He traces his Elder family back to Maryland and Kentucky, possibly
from England before the Rev. War.

James E. ELDER Sr:
"James Elder, the first Catholic of his name to emigrate to Kentucky,
was born in Emmitsburg district, Frederick County, Maryland in 1760,
and was the son of Guy Elder and grandson of William Elder, the American progenitor.
He married Ann Richards and immediately went to Kentucky,
where he settled on Hardin's Creek. His brother William, joined him a few months later.
James Elder died August 15, 1845, and Ann, his wife, January 8, 1857.

"WILLIAM ELDER" book reference in Houston Public Library:
Donnelly, Mary Louise, 1926-
William Elder descendants / Mary Louise Donnelly.
Ennis, Tex. : M.L. Donnelly, c2007.

NancyElderPetersen
8th September 2009, 19:31
Adding to my Steamships webpage
at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/Steamships.htm

BLACK WATCH MUSEUM replied:
FW: 87990: 2Lt David Renwick Elder, The Black Watch
Tuesday, September 8, 2009 4:05 AM
From: "Archives - The Museum of The Black Watch"
<archives@theblackwatch.co.uk>
Herewith a reply to your enquiry.
TBS.
>Thank you for your e-mail of 27th August.
>Service records are not held by the relevant regiment, but for the Second World War period are administered by the Army Personnel Centre. You can download a form.
http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/army.html

>I can, however offer the following information from the material held here:-
Elder, D R , MC. (Territorial Army Commission)
2Lieut 28/4/1939; Lieut 1/1/1941; T/Capt 3/12/1941;
With 2nd Battalion as Maj.
Officers of The Black Watch Vol II p 39.
>He was awarded the Military Cross while serving with the
4th Battalion in France in 1940.
>The following obituary appeared in the Regimental magazine,
The Red Hackle (June 1997 p 13)
“MAJOR D R ELDER, MC.
Died in Surrey in October 1996.
He was studying to be a chartered accountant in Dundee when war broke out. He joined the 4th Battalion on commissioning in 1939 and went to France with it in 1940. He won the MC during the withdrawal from the Maginot Line. The post that he was defending was subjected to a fierce attack by greatly superior numbers. Thanks to his steadfastness and tactical skillthe position was held.
He went with the 4th Battalion to Gibraltar but very shortly afterwards he joined an elite organisation called the sea Reconnaissance Unit which was originally trained in California and Bermuda. He was involved in the reconnaissance of the beaches prior to the Normandy invasion and then the unit moved to Burma. He was responsible for finding suitable crossing points over the Irrawaddy which was full of sandbanks which changed positions during the monsoons. For his work in Burma, mostly behind enemy lines he was mentioned in despatches.
After the war he returned to accountancy and worked for Shell.“

I hope that this is of help. A donation to Museum funds would be appreciated. Cheque payable to The Black Watch Museum.
Thomas B Smyth
Archivist
The Black Watch Museum
Balhousie Castle
Hay Street
Perth
PH1 5HR

---Nancy Elder Petersen
Host, ELDER DNA project
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Elder

NancyElderPetersen
14th September 2009, 19:27
Adding to my notes about
DAVID RENWICK ELDER,
b. 1920 Lochee, Forfar, Scotland ("Black Watch" regiment, MC)

BLUE FUNNEL webpages
at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/ed/BlueFunnel.htm
(http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/ed/BlueFunnel.htm)

Jim LOWE found David Renwick ELDER, b. 1920 Lochee, in ScotlandsPeople (no parents listed).
He could be a relative of this LOWE family in Dundee --
With names of ELDER ancestors as DAVID AND GEORGE,
could also be relatives of Kinross-shire ELDER group - family of Millwrights in 1700-1800's.
will keep looking for connections.

Jim Low's webpages for Dundee, Scotland:
http://homepage.mac.com/jim.low/genealogy/low/low6.html
Margaret, daughter of Alexander Low and Jessie Crichton,
was born at Dundee on 21 May 1855 and lived in that city all her life.
In 1903, she was a School Mistress and living at 103 Hospital Wynd, Dundee.
She married on 17 December 1903 to David Elder, Jute Mill Manager of Harefield Road, Lochee,
at Mather's Hotel, Dundee, in the United Free Church of Scotland.
He was a son of George Fyfe Elder (ID=459), Jute Mill Engineer, and Jane Clark (ID=460).
David was born about 1857.
Margaret died at Ingledene, Blackness Ave., Dundee on 21 January 1920 of Lymphedenoma (2 months).
Information was supplied to the Registrar by D. Elder, Stepson.
***
LOW/ELDER genealogy:
http://homepage.mac.com/jim.low/genealogy/webcards/ps01/ps01_090.html
Margaret Crichton Low, #90
Birth 1855-05-21, Georges Place, Dundee, Scotland
Death 1920-01-21, Blackness Ave, Dundee, Scotland
Occupation Schoolmistress
Father Alexander Low , #58 (1830-1896)
Mother Jessie Crichton , #59 (1824-1891)
Spouses
David Elder, #91
Birth 1857-08-30, Lochee, Scotland
Occupation Jute Mill Manager
Father: George Fyfe Elder , #459
Mother: Jean (Jane) Rattray Clark , #460 (1834-)
Marriage 1903-12-17, Mathers Hotel, Dundee, Scotland

*****
1861 (Ancestry.com)
Name: David Elder
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: George Fyfe
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Lochee, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 282/3
Registration district: Lochee
Civil parish: Liff and Benvie
County: Angus
Address: Hairfield Road Elders Land
ED: 8
Household schedule number: 202
Line: 24
Roll: CSSCT1861_41A
Household Members:
Name Age
George Fyfe Elder 31 (1830 Engineer & Machinery Foreman) b. Lochee, Forfarshire
Jane Elder 26
David Elder 3
Ann Elder 2
Ann Elder 84 (Aunt)
Mary Elder 3 Mo
Helen Chalmers 16 servant
Source Citation: Parish: Liff and Benvie;
ED: 8; Page: 32; Line: 24;
Roll CSSCT1861_41A; Year: 1861.
**

1851 (Ancestry.com)
Name: George Elder
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: David
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Liff, Forfarshire
Parish Number: 282
Civil parish: Liff and Benvie
Town: Lochee
County: Angus
Address: Loons Road Wellbank
Occupation: Millwright
ED: 103
Page: 36 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 153
Line: 8
Roll: CSSCT1851_63
Household Members:
Name Age
David Elder 65 (1786) b. Liff, Forfarshire - Mason
Mary Elder 58
Mary Ann Elder 26
George Elder 21
Ann Elder 74
John Gow 27
Source Citation: Parish: Liff and Benvie;
ED: 103; Page: 8; Line: 36; Roll 734; Year: 1851.

1841 (Ancestry.com)
Name: George Elder
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Gender: Male
Where born: Angus, Scotland
Civil parish: Liff, Benvie and Invergowrie
County: Angus
Address: Lochee
Parish Number: 301
Household Members:
Name Age
David Elder 55 (1786) b. Angus, Scotland - Mason
Mary Elder 45
David Elder 18
George Elder 11
Anns Elder 60
Source Citation: Parish: Liff, Benvie and Invergowrie;
ED: 130; Page: 6; Line: 400; Roll CSSCT1841_45-0601; Year: 1841.

NancyElderPetersen
20th September 2009, 00:36
Hoping to obtain the Family Tree mentioned here:

RE: ELDER FAMILY of LOCHEE and DUNDEE - DAVID ELDER
Indexed at University of Dundee, Archives:
at
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/archives/ms110.htm

RE: Elder Family of Nether Dryburgh, Camperdown, Dundee
Reference and contact details: GB 0254 MS 110

Scope and Content
"Book belonging to David Elder, used for school exercises? c.1807, accounts 1814-1834; Elder family tree and record of succession to 8 acres of the estate of Camperdown from 1737, compiled by David Elder Senior 1930; plan of the lands of Thomas and John Elder in Lochee 1815."

Administrative/Biographical History
"The Elder family owned 8 acres of land, part of the Camperdown Estate in Dundee. The land passed through at least six generations of the family, beginning with James Elder (c1737-1778) who was infeft of the land by instrument of sasine in 1749. "

NancyElderPetersen
23rd September 2009, 05:54
Archives Librarian at University of Dundee sent me a form today via e-mail,
in order to request a copy of the ELDER Family Tree (2 pages),
with a cost of 2.50 in shillings, mostly for return postage.
I signed and sent the request form,
with payment to University of Dundee today.
Looking forward to seeing the Family Tree pages.

lagerstedt
23rd September 2009, 09:04
All the best with your research.
Looks interesting so far.

Regards
Blair
NZ

NancyElderPetersen
7th October 2009, 00:38
Today I received the 2 pages of "LOCHEE" ELDER Family Tree from
University of Dundee Archives, so now I'm researching the named marriages.
Other researchers found online, so hoping to share information:
see:
WorldConnect
by Niall Sanderson and Janet Breeze
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=sandersonbreeze&id=I1869

# ID: I1869
# Name: David W ELDER
# Sex: M
# Birth: ABT 1823 in Liff Benvie,Forfarshire,Scotland 1
# Residence: 1861 F C Schoolhouse,Wemyss,FIFE, Scotland 2
# Occupation: School Master English of Commercial 1861 2

Marriage 1 Isabella BEATH c: 13 AUG 1821 in Cupar,FIFE,Scotland
* Married: 1857 in Cameron,FIFE,Scotland 3
Sources:
1. Title: 1861 Census
Abbrev: 1861 Census
Note: Scotland
2. Title: 1861 Census
Abbrev: 1861 Census
Page: Parish: Wemyss; ED: 3; Page: 35
3. Author: Scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Abbrev: SPG
****
and
WorldConnect
by Ken DOIG
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=dave1620&id=I5499
# ID: I5499
# Name: John ELDER
# Surname: Elder
# Given Name: John
# Sex: M
# Birth: ABT 1795 in Of Liff, Benvie & Invergowrie, Angus, Scotland
# Note: John was a farmer.

Marriage 1 Susan STEWART b: ABT 1799 in Of Liff, Benvie & Invergowrie, Angus, Scotland
* Married: 18 Apr 1820 in Liff, Benvie & Invergowrie, Angus, Scotland
Children
1. John ELDER b: 1823 in Liff, Benvie & Invergowrie, Angus, Scotland c: 26 Aug 1823 in Liff, Benvie & Invergowrie, Angus, Scotland
2. Elizabeth ELDER b: 1825 in Lochee, Dundee, Angus, Scotland c: 28 Mar 1825 in Liff, Benvie & Invergowrie, Angus, Scotland

NancyElderPetersen
7th October 2009, 01:10
More "LOCHEE" ELDER family researchers online:

David Powell has matching entries, and further back, beginning with
David ELDER (c.1540) of Angus, Scotland [1]
at
http://roots-boots.net/ft/names.html

Univ. of Dundee Archives begins with:
James ELDER (1687) of Invergowrie, Angus [1]
: . . . . . +Isabel ROB; 1710, Invergowrie, Angus [1]
: . . . . . . David ELDER (1712) of Invergowrie, Angus [1]
: . . . . . . +Elizabeth VALENTINE; 1736, Dundee, Angus [1]
: . . . . . . . Isobell ELDER (1738) of Invergowrie, Angus [1]
: . . . . . . . James ELDER (1739) of Invergowrie, Angus [1]
: . . . . . . . +?
: . . . . . . . . Elizabeth ELDER (1766) of Invergowrie, Angus [1]

NancyElderPetersen
11th October 2009, 01:21
More about ""Sea Reconnaissance Unit":
Found book title:
"THE FROGMEN OF BURMA" by
Lt. Comdr. Bruce S Wright. Forward by Earl Mountbatten.
Published by Clarke Irwin in 1968.*
The "true story of the first frogman unit formed by the Allies in World War II,
related by the Canadian naval officer who raised and commanded the Unit from
its training period in California to its successful employment in Burma."
Maps on endpapers, illustrated with archival B&W photos.
152 pages. Size 6 1/4 x 9 in.
Univ. of Montana, Mansfield Library - Available
Requested from Interlibrary loan- Oct. 10, 2009
*****
More info about author Bruce S. Wright:
in
New Brunswick Military Heritage Project
http://www.unb.ca/nbmhp/01_AboutNBMHP.htm
Lieutenant-Commander Bruce S. Wright served with the RCN during the Second World War,
and was instrumental in forming and commanding the "Sea Reconnaissance Unit,"
termed "The Frogmen of Burma," serving under Admiral Lord Mountbatten in South East Asia.
On his return from military service, he became director of the Northeast Wildlife Station
at the University of New Brunswick." (Photo)


Roger Turner
18th October 2009, 22:15
I have read your posts with interest, both from the point of view that I worked for Elder Dempster as a Purser from 1953-62 and also that my wife and daughter have been researching the WILSON family from St.Andrews. They also had a seafaring tradition (including clipper ships and St Andrews Pilotage) and dispersed family connections to Canada,Australia,South Africa and possibly the USA

She has been using Ancestry search website www.rootschat.com and one of the ancestors mentioned happened to be
"Alexander Wilson Born 25.4.1809 died St.A. 24.6.1883
married on 8.12.47 ANNIE ELDER born Dundee 1820 died 16.7.1896
Children Euphemia born St.A. 19.8.1851 died 13.5.1938
Alexander " " 16.12.1854
Elizabeth " " 16.12.1857

I don`t suppose there is a connection with your story, but we wish to know more about Annie Elder anyway.

Meantime, I asked the following question on RootsChat
Alexander Elder

Not sure where to start, but an American Lady on another site was researching a Liverpool Shipping Company called Elder Dempster Lines.
She has Elder in her family, she has been trying to ascertain if she has any connection with the name of one of the founders of the above shipping line in October 1868.
Mr Dempster was a John Dempster from the borders, but MR ALEXANDER ELDER`s origin doesn`t seem to have been discovered - not even apparently by ex members of that line - his name sounds Scottish.
The American lady seems to be looking around Dundee and Milnathort at the moment.
Has anybody any ideas.
Report to moderator 92.18.163.63
regross
RootsChat Veteran
*****
Posts: 845


paper doll fashionista


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Re: Alexander Elder
Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 09:26:38 Reply with quote
hello

there is a reference to a man of this name here
http://www.pelteret.co.za/pdf/genealogy/elder_family.pdf

b1811 d 1881 glass and china merchant. gives wife and children


but man of the same name here
http://www.elder-mcgilligan.com/2006/11/05/robert-elder-1937/
wealthy merchant with elder dempster shippingcompany to his credit so this is a good lead (A) (A) to follow up on

regards

Robyn

........and received an answer - I hope it might be of some help.

Finally, just a thought re a large family of ELDERS returning from West Africa on the m.v. "Sherbro" 1951 and a possible Dundee connection. Dundee had a great Missionary connection with West Africa ref.Mary Slessor of Calabar.
I hope I have not muddied the waters too much, I would love to hear of any further outcomes!

Regards,
Roger Turner

Roger Turner
19th October 2009, 11:28
Just received another reply from RootsChat,which I quote below,
Hope it helps!

Alexander Elder, one of the founders of the Elder Dempster Line and the British and African Steam Navigation Company, died in 1915 aged 81. He gave up his partnership in 1888, but retained his seat on the board of both companies.

He gave 20,000 to the University in Liverpool to found a chair of Naval Architecture.

His obituary appeared in the Times 26 Jan 1915. In March the same year, a small article detailing his bequests was published. He was recorded as living at Albert Road, Hesketh Park, Southport. He left some money to found, endow and equip a hospital in Govan named after his father David Elder. There were other bequests as well. Bridge of Allan was mentioned (the United Free Church there) so perhaps he hailed from that area?

Nell

NancyElderPetersen
20th October 2009, 03:27
Thanks so much for helping with the search for ELDER DEMPSTER
relatives!
I do have more information about the origins of Alexander ELDER's
family in Kinross-shire, posted online with links on
my webpages
at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/Steamships.htm

I found an online book about his brother, JOHN ELDER of Glasgow
from:
Digitized book online, University of California:
http://www.openlibrary.org/details/memoirofjohnelde00rankiala

Title: "A MEMOIR of John Elder, engineer and ship-builder,"
by William John Macquorn Rankine
Type: Book
Language: English
Publisher: Edinburgh, London, W. Blackwood, 1871.
OCLC: 12780671
Related Subjects: Elder, John, -- engineer.

Page 1:
"The earliest accounts of the family of ELDER show it
to have flourished in the county of Kinross, in the
east of Scotland, during the sixteenth and seven-
teenth centuries. The leading branch of the family
seems to have been that which possessed the estate
of Arlarie, near the town of Milnathort. ...

And in a book about JOHN ELDER's wife ISABELLA:
"The Lady of Claremont House; Isabella Elder, Pioneer and philanthropist,"
by C. Joan McAlpine, Argyll Publishing, 1997.
Glendaruel, Argyll, Scotland
Borrowed on Interlibrary loan from University of Georgia Library.

Page 204
Alexander Elder 25, 178, 196 (note5) 197 (note 18)
Page 178:
Isabella's will:
"She continued annuities to her sister-in-law, the widow of David Elder, her
husband's older brother and she ensured that Alexander Elder, her husband's younger brother who was in
receipt of an annuity given to him by John Elder's will, had this continued.
Alexander was wealthy in his own right and had formed the firm of Elder, Dempster & Co trading to West Africa.
He lived in Southport. He founded the Alexander Elder Chair of Naval Architecture at Liverpool University in 1909.
He died in 1915 and left 100,000 pounds for a hospital to be built near the Elder Park to be known as the David Elder Infirmary.
now David Elder Wing of the Dept. of Obstetrics and Gynaecology in the
Southern General Hospital, opened in March 1987. "

More notes about ALEXANDER ELDER, posted
on my webpages
at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/ed/ElderDempsterBook.htm

From the book:
THE TRADE MAKERS: ELDER DEMPSTER IN WEST AFRICA, 1852-1972, 1973-1989,
by Peter N. Davies
Borrowed on Interlibrary loan from "THE CITADEL" Library, Charleston,
South Carolina, USA

Using Ancestry.com - found cousins in Kinross-shire and Glasgow:
Reviewing census entries for George ELDER of
Milnathort, Kinross-shire in 1851, 1861, 1871.
Son James F. ( b. 1845) seems to be in Glasgow in 1881,
James' son Charles b. 1876 in Glasgow,
occupation: "Cashier, Mercantile" in 1891.
Charles b. 1876 in Glasgow is "Law Clerk" in 1901.
(He may have marked a career trail there?)

ELDER Cemetery markers in Milnathort, Kinross-shire:
at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/cem/MilnathortCem1.htm
Photo 4: ALEXANDER ELDER MONUMENT:
Erected by ALEXANDER ELDER LIVERPOOL
IN MEMORY OF HIS GRANDPARENTS
ALEXANDER ELDER MILLWRIGHT LITTLE SEGGIE
Died December 1823 Age 72 years
and his wife ELIZABETH MORRISON
Died March 1832 Aged 82 Years
*************************
---
Nancy Elder Petersen
Host, ELDER DNA project
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Elder

NancyElderPetersen
20th October 2009, 04:09
Using Ancestry.com
Searching for ANNIE ELDER b. abt 1820 Dundee,
found some similar entries, but not born in 1820.
Here's one born in 1826,
appears to belong to the "LOCHEE and DUNDEE" families, with
many generations named DAVID ELDER.

1841 Census
Name: Ann Elder
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Gender: Female
Where born: Angus, Scotland
Civil parish: Dundee
County: Angus
Address: Elders Lands South Road
Parish Number: 301
Household Members:
Name Age
David Elder 65
Isabela Elder 40
Ann Elder 15
Alexander Young 30
Source Citation: Parish: Dundee; ED: 125; Page: 5; Line: 1160; Roll CSSCT1841_45-0530; Year: 1841.

***
--Nancy Elder Petersen
Host, ELDER DNA project
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Elder

NancyElderPetersen
20th October 2009, 05:57
I have previously researched Scotland census and locations for
DAVID ELDER, brother of JOHN ELDER of Glasgow, who is
also a brother of ALEXANDER ELDER of ELDER DEMPSTER.
I posted notes on my webpages
at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/ed/DavidElderJrSteamships.htm

In 1871 DAVID ELDER lived near BRIDGE OF ALLAN, LOGIE PARISH, near Stirling,
had retired there in ill health, and died soon after.

1871 census (Ancestry.com)
Name: David Elder (who died 1872 age of 51)
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Catherine
Mother's Name: Grace
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 374
Registration district: Logie
Civil Parish: Logie
County: Perthshire
Address: Charlton Rd Miltomine Vella [Villa] or [Melbourne House]
Occupation: Civil Engineer
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 39
Line: 10
Roll: CSSCT1871_65
Household Members:
Name Age
David Elder**************** 49 (b. Glasgow, Lanarkshire - Civil Engineer)
Catherine Elder************* 38 (b. England 1833)
Grace Elder*****************78 ( b.Therley, Renfrewshire 1793) - must be Paisley, Renfrew
Francis Anne Brenston******** 46 (visitor, Therley, Renfrewshire, 1825)* [Paisley]
Charles N Mastin************ 16 (visitor, scholar, Applecrgs, England, 1855) [or Martin]
Isabella Campbell************25 (servant, Applecrgs, Rossshire)
Margaret McLaren************28 (servant, Kilmadock, Perthshire)
Margaret McLean************ 19 (servant, Glasgow, Lanarkshire)
Source Citation: Parish: Logie; ED: 1; Page: 9; Line: 10;
Roll: CSSCT1871_65; Year: 1871.
Find LDS microflm at Family History Center for handwritten entry.

Searched towns in GENUKI webpages for PERTHSHIRE and LOGIE
at
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/PER/Logie/index.html
found:
"LOGIE, parish in Stirlingshire, Clackmannanshire, and Perthshire.
It adjoins Stirling town, and contains Causewayhead, Menstrie, and Blairlogie villages.,
part of Bridge of Allan town, and a small part of Stirling burgh.

Search: CHARLTON ROAD and town "Bridge of Allan"
found: 33 Charlton Road, Bridge of Allan (19th century urban villa photo)
at
http://www.scran.ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-000-112-183-C

"Grand Villa, one of many on the steep, woody slopes of Bridge of Allan."

David Jr. must have married between 1861 and 1871.
************ -- his father: David Elder, Sr. , b.* Kinross-shire, 1785, d. Glasgow 1866
****************Sr. in 1812 married Grace Gilmore - ref. from book "Memoir of John ELDER."

1841 census Scotland (Ancestry.com) - David Jr. living with David Sr. and brothers
near the River Clyde
Name: David Elder
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Gender: Male
Where born: Lanarkshire, Scotland
Civil Parish: Barony Anderston
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Anderston Quay
Occupation: Engineer Ap
Parish Number: 622
Household Members:
Name* Age
David Elder********* 55 (b. 1785, Scotland - Engineer)* [b. Orwell, Kinross-shire]
Grace Elder********* 45 (b. 1796, Scotland
David Elder********* 19 (b. 1822, Lanarkshire, Scotland- Engineer Ap
John Elder********** 15 (b. 1826, Lanarkshire, Scotland - Engineer Ap
Alexander Elder******* 8 (b. 1833, Lanarkshire, Scotland)
Janet Baxter********* 20 (b. Lanarkshire, Scotland) - Servant,
Source Citation: Parish: Barony Anderston; ED: 32; Page: 8; Line: 1449; Roll: CSSCT1841_98-0024; Year: 1841.

Anderston Quay - map
http://www.clydewaterfront.com/anderstonquay.aspx

---Nancy Elder Petersen
Host, ELDER DNA project
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Elder

NancyElderPetersen
22nd October 2009, 22:38
Hi Roger,
Commenting on the .pdf file cited from RootsChat,
which included DAVID and ALEXANDER ELDER names
from around Inverness. I had also been researching in
that area, after discovering a Sir GEORGE ELDER
in a book titled "BRAVE MEN of SKYE."
He was a "Native of KILLEARNAN, Ross and Cromarty,"
north of Inverness, near AVOCH Parish, also mentioned in the .pdf file.
Notes posted on my webpages
at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/ed/Skye.htm
"...it was from Skye he joined the army, his inherent military genius having doubtless
received not a little stimulus from the warlike spirit which prevailed in the island at that time.
"The Elders had fighting blood in their veins from both sides of the house, ancestors of theirs
(Stuart and Elder) having fought at Culloden on the side of the Prince."
Sir George Elder was a soldier born, and efforts which were made to prevent his going to the army were in vain.
He was appointed as an Ensign in the 46th Foot on the 27th of November, 1799"...
....he was made Knight Commander of the Order of the Tower and Sword by the Regency of Portugal;
and His Royal Highness the Regent of England was pleased to confer the honour of Knighthood...."

Inverness to Kilcoy (Distance: 9.27 miles, about 17 mins) - click OS enlarged map for Kilcoy Castle - see AVOCH to the east.
http://www.multimap.com/s/Dnj9nEjc

Location of Castle Stuart - across Moray Firth from Avoch
Map posted
at
http://www.castlestuart.com/location.html

AVOCH Cemetery stones listed for ELDER names
at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/ed/Skye5.htm

.....John & Jean Elder; Alexr & Jannet Elder
.....AVOCH Parish Churchyard
http://gravestones.rosscromartyroots.co.uk/picture/number266.asp?st=Elder
"This is the burial/place of JOHN ELDER/gardiner in Reid/castle de/parted this life/
the 3rd Dec 1781/Also in memory/of his spouse JEAN/STEWART/
ALEXr ELDER gar/dener in Kilkoie/and JANNET HOSAc/his spouse."

More adventures in Family Histories!
Thanks again for helping to connect these Scots families.

NancyElderPetersen
27th October 2009, 07:10
Hi folks,
Today I received the book "Frogmen of Burma, the Story of the Sea Reconnaissance Unit" (of WWII), by
Lt. Commander Bruce S. Wright
Published 1968. 152 p. With Photos
Interlibrary loan from University of Montana
Inscribed by the Author: "To the Wildlife Management Institute in appreciation of all it has done for me." Bruce Wright

Notes of mention in the book for
David Renwick ELDER, M.C., The Black Watch,
who came from Elder family of "Lochee, Dundee, Scotland"
In the book he is called "JOCK ELDER."

In training camp on the coast with the U.S. Marine Raiders at Camp Pendleton, California. 1943

Page 29.
"Number One Section Commander was Captain Jock Elder, M.C., The Black Watch."
"Jock was a medium-sized, dark-visaged Scotsman, tough and wiry as leather.
His Military Cross was a memento of Dunkerque, where he had had a severe baptism of fire.
It speaks volumes about Jock that soon after the Dunkerque experience his name appeared
on the list of volunteers for hazardous service. His well-developed boxer-type muscles made
him susceptible to cramp in the water, and he had to work harder than most to acquire the frogman skills."

Page 36. In California
"The United States was in the full flush of its war effort at the time
and Britain's stock there was high. The S.R.U. offficers stayed at various Los Angeles hotels on the leaves .....
Captain Jock Elder of the Black Watch, who had an M.C. from Dunkerque, was perhaps the star of the group.
In Hollywood a kilt backed up by the Military Cross was a gift from the gods to every master of ceremonies in town."

24 Photo pages: Between Pages 48 and 49
48 E - Nightclubbing in Hollywood... (not named)
48 F-G - Sea Reconnaissance Unit Officers at Camp Pendleton, Calif. All named.
........ "Capt. Jock Elder, The Black Watch" (Kilt and Tam) Standing behind and to left of Bruce Wright
48 K - H.R.H. The Duke of Windsor with members of the Sea Reconnaisance Unit in Nassau
........ Jock Elder - 2nd row - Wearing Tam and shirt - seated to right of Duke of Windsor
48 L-M "The Finalists," at the completion of training, Nassau, Bahamas, 1944
....... Jock Elder - Seated in 2nd row, wearing Tam and Jacket

Maps on Inside Front and Back covers:
Shows the 1st Section S.R.U. with "20 Indian Div." Feb. 12, 1945
near Myinmu, to the west of Mandalay,
along the Irrawaddy River, Burma
(also with "19 Indian Div." to the north of Mandalay)

Adding to the Blue Funnel webpage notes:
at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/ed/BlueFunnel.htm

NancyElderPetersen
27th November 2009, 04:13
I would also like to connect the similar ELDER names in CT and NY, USA:
My notes for Steamship "George W. ELDER"
at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/ed/SteamshipGeorgeWElder.htm
Named after George William ELDER, b. abt 1831 NY, merchant (g-father b. ENG)
"Photos from the Harriman Expedition to Alaska 1899"
Including activities aboard the Steamship George W. ELDER
Digital Collection of University of Washington Libraries webpage.
at
http://content.lib.washington.edu/harrimanweb
"Railroad magnate Edward H. Harriman led a team of twenty-three scientists,
including the great naturalist John Muir,
on a two month expedition to explore the waters and coastal territory of Alaska.
Over 5,000 photographs were taken during the voyage
and were used to compile the souvenir album of the expedition presented here with 254 of those images...."

Steamship named for a family of Yacht Racers in CT and NY,
with the money from Sugar Manufacturing and Shipping.
International Star Class Yacht Racing Association,
Commodore George W ELDER Jr. was the last of the Elder men to race.
"We are proud of George Waldron Elder - may he be proud of us!
The spirit with which we race, the friendships we weld, and the fellowship of Star sailors the world
over must be our continuing contribution. George Elder has made his."
His photo:
at
http://www.starclass.org/history/forty-intro.htm#intro
and
HAVEMEYER and ELDER Sugar Refining Company in NY - 1890
292-350 Kent Avenue, bet. S. 5th and S. 2nd Sts. W side
Williamsburg, Brooklyn, on the East River, article on closure
(photo with Domino Sign)
at
http://www.nyc-architecture.com/WBG/wbg025.htm
Also:
The Green-Wood Cemetery, 500 25th Street, Brooklyn, NY 11232-1755.
at
http://www.green-wood.com
George Elder, bur. Apr 9, 1885, Sec 57 lot 2340
Cornelia Elder, bur Jan 13, 1885
Daniel R. Elder, bur may 15, 1875
Finetta S. Elder, bur Dec. 9, 1848
Hannah E Elder, bur May 10, 1884
Robert R. Elder, bur Dec 9, 1848
Ann E. Riker, bur Dec 23, 1851
wife of John Lafayette Riker
Other Elder names, found by Edgar Allan Nutt, Riker family historian
1850
Civil War in Stamford, Fairfield Co, CT
http://www.stamfordhistory.org/ps_civilwar.htm
...When in the mid-summer of 1862...
...a crowded meeting gathered in Seely’s Hall...
George Elder, Esq., presided...." (b. 1801 England or Scotland?)

NancyElderPetersen
3rd December 2009, 20:17
Searching Google today for "Elspeth ELDER", I found:
at
http://www.modernghana.com/news/48372/1/author-of-kan-me-hwe-and-mmofra-nnwom-passes-away.html

General News | Wed, 28 Jan 2004
Author of "Kan Me Hwe" and "Mmofra Nnwom" Passes Away
By GHANA HIGH COMMISSION, LONDON.

Cremation took place in Edinburgh today of Mrs Elspeth Elder, 100, author of ‘Kan Me Hwe’ and Mmofra Nnom’.
Mrs. Elder worked in Ghana from 1929 to 1959 in various educational institutions. After studying Twi, she wrote a number of children's books in Twi, the most prominent being the ‘Kan Me Hwe’ reading series and a book of songs ‘Mmofra Nnwom’ for Presbyterian children.

In a tribute, H.E, Mr. Isaac Osei, Ghana’s High Commissioner praised Mrs. Elder, a Scottish, for her contribution towards the country’s education. He said Ghanaians had greatly benefited from the pioneering spirit, missionary zeal, kindness and sacrifice of Mrs. Elder and her family.

NancyElderPetersen
6th December 2009, 01:05
Today I received a Xerox page requested through Interlibrary loan from
the publication:
Who's Who. London, A&C Black, etc.
1994 Annual, Page 579

ELDER, David Renwick, MC 1940; CA;
b 4 Jan. 1920;
son of John Kidd Elder and Mary Kinnear Swanley;
m 1947, Kathleen Frances Duncan;
two [sons] two [daughters]
Education: Dundee High School.
Served 1939-46, The Black Watch (RHR) and
Sea Reconnaissance Unit (Major).
Royal Dutch Shell Group, 1948-71;
Ocean Transport & Trading Ltd, 1971-80 (Dept. Chm., 1975-80;
Chm., Ocean Inchcape, 1974-80;
Director: Letraset International Ltd, 1975;
Capital & Counties Property Ltd, 1979; Whessoe Ltd, 1980.
Recreation: golf. Clubs: Wentworth Golf (Virginia Water);
Panmure Golf (Carnoustie).

1891 Scotland census
Name: John K Elder
Age: 9 Mo
Estimated birth year: abt 1890
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: David
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Lochee, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 282/5
Registration district: Lochee
Civil parish: Liff, Benvie and Lnvergowrie
County: Angus
Address: 11 1/2 Bank St
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 11
Line: 5
Roll: CSSCT1891_97
Household Members:
Name Age
David Elder 30 (1861, Lochee)
Ann Elder 32 (1859, Dundee)
John K Elder 9 Mo
Source Citation: Parish: Liff, Benvie and Lnvergowrie; ED:
2; Page: 3; Line: 5; Roll CSSCT1891_97; Year: 1891.

Adding to notes
at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/ed/BlueFunnel.htm

NancyElderPetersen
1st May 2010, 23:08
Using the Census Parish records for ELDER families of Lochee-Dundee, Scotland
I found an old Map online,
showing the "Camperdown Home Farm" on the edge of Camperdown Estates
plus Google aerial maps in between
photos of old and new Lochee and Invergowrie - Wellbank and
"Both views from the over bridge on Harefield Road"
at...
http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/keng/kenhtml/Dundee%20Newtyle%20Railway/Ninewell%20Junction%20To%20Fairmuir%20Junction%20% 28New%20Line%29.htm
"THE DUNDEE & NEWTYLE RAILWAY"--
"NEW LINE FROM NINEWELLS Jctn TO FAIRMUIR Jctn"

"The Lochee branch came off the Dundee-Perth mainline at Ninewells
Junction. Stations enroute were Liff, Lochee West and Lochee."

Another Google aerial map
Finding the edge of Camperdown Estates, Lochee, and
Dryburgh Street (and Dryburgh Place) - should be close
to the ELDER lands around Dundee.
at
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=dryburgh+street,+dundee&daddr=A90,+Kingsway,+Dundee+DD2+4TD,+United+Kingdo m+

RE: Elder Family of Nether Dryburgh, Camperdown, Dundee
1851 ELDER census - Address: "Loons Road Wellbank"
1861 ELDER census - Address: "Hairfield Road Elders Land"

More about ELDER in Lochee-Dundee
at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nancyelder/ed/BlueFunnel.htm