barque cavair lost 9.2.1892

28th August 2009, 12:05

Can anyone please help me to find out more about the loss of this ship which I believe floundered off the Galway coast 9.2.1892.
We lost a family member-James McGinlay- who was on the ship.

The only information I have is that it was heading for Greenock from Pensacola.

I have tried various sites but no joy so any info would be very much appreciated.



K urgess
28th August 2009, 12:59
Welcome aboard.
The crew may be able to help you in your search.
Meanwhile find your way around our ship and enjoy the voyage.

28th August 2009, 13:11
Welcome aboard from the Philippines. Enjoy all this great site has to offer

28th August 2009, 15:33
The ship is mentioned twice on the net, with two other sailors lost, Black and Shotter, but then the name in both cases is spelled with an added R, as in CARVAIR.
No matter, Miramar has neither CAVAIR or CARVAIR, and I haven't found her anywhere else either. Regards, Stein.

28th August 2009, 16:18
Thanks Stein

Having looked again at the entries in Watt Library (Greenock) relating to the death of James) I notice that one entry is Cavair and one is Carvair

Thinking that the people you mentioned may also have been from the same area I checked the death notices for them but no listings-they may not have been from Greenock.

Were they listed as dying on the same date as James.



28th August 2009, 17:11
Can't refind Black, but I believe he was from Greenock too. Here's Shotter: Francis Shotter, sailmaker, Greenock, lost with barque Carvair off Galway coast on 9th. February 1892 from Pensacola to Greenock. (Greenock Telegraph 21.4.1892) Regards, Stein.

28th August 2009, 17:52
Thanks again Stein

Where on the internet do you find the reference to the Carvair. I can't find anything. I'd be grateful if you could give me the link.



29th August 2009, 07:56
This is what immediately comes up on my screen:

[PDF] Watt Library, Greenock File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
James, son of Michael & Isabella McGinlay, lost with Barque Carvair on 9th Feb. 1892. (Greenock Telegraph 9.2.1893). MCGINLAY ... - Similar

[PDF] BMD Index - Letter S Surnames - Sabiston to Shute File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Francis Shotter, sailmaker, Greenock, lost with barque Carvair off Galway coast on 9th. February 1892 from Pensacola to - Similar

There was one Black too, but I must have found him searching with a word combination I can't repeat. Regards, Stein.

29th August 2009, 13:56
Thanks Stein


29th August 2009, 17:39
Refound Mr. Black, with a third spelling of the ship's name:

[PDF] Watt Library, Greenock File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Daniel Black, seaman, Greenock lost with the barque 'Carvour' off the Galway coast on 9th Feb. 1892 from Pensacola to Greenock (Greenock Telegraph 21.4.1892 ... - Similar

[PDF] BMD Index - Letter J Surnames File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Benjamin Jemmott, cook, Greenock, lost with barque 'Carvour' off Galway coast on 9th. February 1892 from Pensacola to Greenock. ... - Similar

[PDF] BMD Index - Letter F Surnames File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
Thomas Fisher, boatswain, Greenock lost with barque 'Carvour' off the Galway coast on 9th Feb 1892 from Pensecola to Greenock. (Greenock Telegraph 21.4.1892 ... - Similar

There is now reason to believe the ship's homeport was Greenock? Regards, Stein.

29th August 2009, 17:56
James Baines owned this one, which I think might be the one we are searching for: Cavour built by T. Hilyard, St. John, New Brunswick, 1862, 1320 tons, wooden ship, 1871 purchased, 1877 sold to A. Ferguson, Greenock. (Of course this Ferguson might have owned several ships with the same name, this ship is a bit old.)

The spelling of the ship's name fits this one: "Owen Durkin, seaman, lost with barque 'Cavour' off Galway coast on 9th February 1892 from Pensacola to Greenock. (Greenock Telegraph 21.04.1892) ..."

She’s mentioned on page 34 of Michael Stammers’ ”The Passage Makers” (on James Baines' Black Ball Line of Liverpool) as follows: ” the Canadian ship Cavour of 1320 tons built in 1862, purchased in December 1871, with money loaned by John Grant Morris and sold in 1877.”

There's a bit on the shipbuilder on the net: Thomas Hilyard was a shipbuilder and lumberman, born at St. John, New Brunswick in October, 1810, son of Thomas Hilyard and Margaret Miles. He married Matilda Dyer and had thirteen children. He died 22 June 1873 at Saint John. With the construction of two big ships in 1852 he started building on a large scale. He obtained, first by lease and later by purchase, a shipyard in Portland, Saint John County. In 1854 he bought an adjoining steam sawmill. In 1856 or 1857 he expanded by leasing and subsequently purchasing a neighboring shipyard from John Haws, for decades a leading shipbuilder in the area.

Hilyard launched at least 48 vessels, a number surpassed by few Canadian builders. His larger ships were often sold to major shipowners in Liverpool, England while the smaller vessels were generally sold locally. He gained a high reputation as a shipbuilder and the quality and quantity of his ships and the extent of his saw milling operations made him a leading figure in the economic life of the Saint John region.
the business until 1915.

Thomas Hilyard is also mentioned on page 104 of F. W. Wallace's "Wooden Ships and Iron Men" (on Canadian shipbuilding): "in the sixties he cnstructed many fine ships, the Attila, Eddystone, Kamer, Cavour, Empress of the Seas... he gained a reputation as a builder of high quality" etc.

The Canadian built softwood ships, no matter how well built, were not ships that aged well, one built in 1862 must be therefore be considered pretty old in 1892. Regards, Stein.

30th August 2009, 14:07
The New York Times for Feb. 18, 1892, reports under the headline: Europe’s big Snowstorm:

A quantity of wreckage has come ashore at Roundstone, Connemara County, Ireland. On some of these pieces is the inscription, “Cavour, Greenock,” and this is taken to indicate the loss of the British bark Cavour, commanded by Capt. McMurty, which sailed from Pensacola Dec. 5, bound for Greenock, her home port. The Cavour was formerly the ship of that name that was built at St. John, N. B. in 1862. She was a vessel of 1,299 tons and was built of hard and soft woods, iron and copper fastened, and was salted. She was rated at 1 and was last surveyed at Greenock in April, 1888. She was owned by John Carswell & Sons.
A lifeboat from the ill fated bark has been washed ashore on the Irish coast, and to make the assurance of her loss doubly sure, there has come ashore a model of a ship on which is the name of the Captain of the Cavour. It is believed that the only way this model could have gotten adrift from the cabin of the Cavour was through the capsizing or foundering of the bark.

The Saturday Budget for Feb. 20, 1892 also runs the story, but with nothing additional directly related to the Cavour. A box of books bearing the initials S. F. H. Y. has drifted ashore, a large timber laden vessel upside down floating shoreward, the corpse of a woman observed at sea by fishermen afraid to carry it ashore. Presumably all unrelated to the Cavour.
Regards, Stein.

1st September 2009, 17:57
Thank you Stein

You have been extremley helpful and I really appreciate the information you unearthed for me.



1st September 2009, 18:08
It was fun searching for her. What you now miss is a picture, they might have one in a museum, in Liverpool or Greenwich perhaps. Regards, Stein.