Page & Moy have chosen the replacement for Ocean Majesty

shamrock
2nd September 2009, 16:58
P&M have stayed with classic ships and have decided to charter Athena for their 2010 programme of summer cruises...

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2009/09/02/31792/page-and-moy-charters-athena-for-2010-summer-season.html

captain61
3rd September 2009, 16:49
Thanks for that Much prefer the classic ships to the tower blocks

Pompeyfan
4th September 2009, 01:11
Athena is a bit old now however, built 1948. I certainly prefer ships built for ocean travel, and Athena, ex Stockhom and many other names certainly fit that bill. She was the first post war passenger liner built for Swedish American Line and the largest passenger ship built in Sweden at the time. She was the ship that was in collision with the Andrea Doria, the Italian passenger liner that sank in 1956. she has had something like seven names since being Stockholm being transformed in her appearance as being laid up in Genoa, renamed Italia 1, then sold to Nina Cia di Navigazione who completed the refit when she was renamed Italia Prima.

No doubt after all the refits and changing her appearance she is a very nice classic ship who passengers clearly like, but she is still a bit old, and must be very hard to maintain?.

David

shamrock
4th September 2009, 08:32
The main thing David is that Athena is 100% SOLAS 2010 compliant, so she will be with us for many years to come...providing she doesn't have any further accidents or incidents.

Pompeyfan
4th September 2009, 21:06
The main thing David is that Athena is 100% SOLAS 2010 compliant, so she will be with us for many years to come...providing she doesn't have any further accidents or incidents.

Yes, I know Ali, she has been extensively refitted I understand which would be why she is SOLAS compliant I suppose. But as my parents would say, she is mutton dressed up as lamb. I would be interested in Freds views regarding these old ships that have had major refits or practically rebuilt.

David

fred henderson
5th September 2009, 17:36
It is worth considering the broad outline of the new SOLAS regulations that come into force on 1 July 2010. I have copied the following from the IMO website:

Revised passenger ship safety standards
The package of amendments to SOLAS were the result of a comprehensive review of passenger ship safety initiated in 2000 with the aim of assessing whether the current regulations were adequate, in particular for the large passenger ships now being built.

The work in developing the new and amended regulations has based its guiding philosophy on the dual premise that the regulatory framework should place more emphasis on the prevention of a casualty from occurring in the first place and that future passenger ships should be designed for improved survivability so that, in the event of a casualty, persons can stay safely on board as the ship proceeds to port.

The amendments include new concepts such as the incorporation of criteria for the casualty threshold (the amount of damage a ship is able to withstand, according to the design basis, and still safely return to port) into SOLAS chapters II-1 and II-2. The amendments also provide regulatory flexibility so that ship designers can meet any safety challenges the future may bring. The amendments include:
• alternative designs and arrangements;
• safe areas and the essential systems to be maintained while a ship proceeds to port after a casualty, which will require redundancy of propulsion and other essential systems;
• on-board safety centres, from where safety systems can be controlled, operated and monitored;
• fixed fire detection and alarm systems, including requirements for fire detectors and manually operated call points to be capable of being remotely and individually identified;
• fire prevention, including amendments aimed at enhancing the fire safety of atriums, the means of escape in case of fire and ventilation systems; and
• time for orderly evacuation and abandonment, including requirements for the essential systems that must remain operational in case any one main vertical zone is unserviceable due to fire.

While some of these requirements are not too difficult to implement others will be cause major problems for ships such as Athena that were originally built to SOLAS 1948. It will be interesting to see how rigorously the regulatory authorities apply SOLAS 2010. Athena is registered in Madeira.

Although passenger ships continue to be lost there is a clear co-relation between safety and the year of build, plus the ships’ original role. Historically the world fleet of passenger ships over 10,000 GRT has suffered a total of 108 ship losses (excluding war losses but including ships written-off as Constructive Total Losses) in the 120 years since the first such ship entered service. Of these 93 were built as traditional liners and their loss caused 4,067 casualties. A total of 14 passenger ships over 10,000 GRT that were built as ferries have been lost at a cost of 2,970 lives. Only one vessel over 10,000 GRT built as a cruise ship (in 1972) became a Constructive Total Loss, without loss of life and was rebuilt as a livestock carrier. None of the passenger ships over 10,000 GRT that have been built in the past 20 years have been lost.

Personally I agree with David. The heavily Botoxed old timers are best viewed from the shore.

Fred (Thumb)

Billieboy
5th September 2009, 18:32
Dave, if you say built 1948 then, "A bit Old", is stretching poetic license more than a little! The bloody boat is antique!

Ron Stringer
5th September 2009, 20:37
It is worth considering the broad outline of the new SOLAS regulations that come into force on 1 July 2010.

The amendments include new concepts such as the incorporation of criteria for the casualty threshold (the amount of damage a ship is able to withstand, according to the design basis, and still safely return to port)

Well at least you can safely say that this particular vessel has been thoroughly crash-tested.[=P]

fred henderson
6th September 2009, 14:44
Well at least you can safely say that this particular vessel has been thoroughly crash-tested.[=P]

As Stockholm she crashed bow first into the side of Andrea Doria because of the actions of both ships. If either of the two ships had followed a lightly different course and Andrea Doria had crashed into the side of Stockholm, then Stockholm would have gone down.

Fred (Thumb)

shamrock
6th September 2009, 15:07
The thing to remember is that no matter what age the ship is, as long as it passes all of its certification tests etc, no decent company would ever chance the lives of their guests on a ship that wasn't safe.

Athena maybe an old lady but she is an extremely popular old lady amongst repeat cruisers, both from Australia under the CIC ownership and elsewhere...infact wherever she goes, she seems to have a very loyal following and only once in recent years has she had any problems and that wasn't her doing, that was down to mother nature throwing a tantrum which sadly caused a guest to fall whilst on board who subsequently passed away from injuries received. (However, it does have to be said that had the guest not been going up the stairs when asked specifically not to due to the sea state, maybe the incident could have been avoided).

Pompeyfan
6th September 2009, 19:31
It is worth considering the broad outline of the new SOLAS regulations that come into force on 1 July 2010. I have copied the following from the IMO website:

Revised passenger ship safety standards
The package of amendments to SOLAS were the result of a comprehensive review of passenger ship safety initiated in 2000 with the aim of assessing whether the current regulations were adequate, in particular for the large passenger ships now being built.

The work in developing the new and amended regulations has based its guiding philosophy on the dual premise that the regulatory framework should place more emphasis on the prevention of a casualty from occurring in the first place and that future passenger ships should be designed for improved survivability so that, in the event of a casualty, persons can stay safely on board as the ship proceeds to port.

The amendments include new concepts such as the incorporation of criteria for the casualty threshold (the amount of damage a ship is able to withstand, according to the design basis, and still safely return to port) into SOLAS chapters II-1 and II-2. The amendments also provide regulatory flexibility so that ship designers can meet any safety challenges the future may bring. The amendments include:
• alternative designs and arrangements;
• safe areas and the essential systems to be maintained while a ship proceeds to port after a casualty, which will require redundancy of propulsion and other essential systems;
• on-board safety centres, from where safety systems can be controlled, operated and monitored;
• fixed fire detection and alarm systems, including requirements for fire detectors and manually operated call points to be capable of being remotely and individually identified;
• fire prevention, including amendments aimed at enhancing the fire safety of atriums, the means of escape in case of fire and ventilation systems; and
• time for orderly evacuation and abandonment, including requirements for the essential systems that must remain operational in case any one main vertical zone is unserviceable due to fire.

While some of these requirements are not too difficult to implement others will be cause major problems for ships such as Athena that were originally built to SOLAS 1948. It will be interesting to see how rigorously the regulatory authorities apply SOLAS 2010. Athena is registered in Madeira.

Although passenger ships continue to be lost there is a clear co-relation between safety and the year of build, plus the ships’ original role. Historically the world fleet of passenger ships over 10,000 GRT has suffered a total of 108 ship losses (excluding war losses but including ships written-off as Constructive Total Losses) in the 120 years since the first such ship entered service. Of these 93 were built as traditional liners and their loss caused 4,067 casualties. A total of 14 passenger ships over 10,000 GRT that were built as ferries have been lost at a cost of 2,970 lives. Only one vessel over 10,000 GRT built as a cruise ship (in 1972) became a Constructive Total Loss, without loss of life and was rebuilt as a livestock carrier. None of the passenger ships over 10,000 GRT that have been built in the past 20 years have been lost.

Personally I agree with David. The heavily Botoxed old timers are best viewed from the shore.

Fred (Thumb)

Fred

As usual, a very detailed reply. Like you say, this old timer is best viewed from the shore.

Ali

Athena may well have very loyal following of passengers, sorry guests, as they are now known.

I am sure that Louis Lines for example would not chance the lives of passengers, but look at the appalling record they have with their ships, and .

Even when Black Watch, built 1972 a new ship compared to Athena, is showing her age, parts wearing out. Her Chief Engineer told me it was a never ending battle to maintain her.

Athena may well be popular for those who cruise on her, but you may find it a different story for those who have to work on her and maintain her.

David

janneke
2nd February 2012, 14:29
Thanks for that Much prefer the classic ships to the tower blocks

It is all a matter of taste i suppose.
I was on an Athena cruise in sept 2011 to the Azores and i must say that i prefer the slightly bigger and modern ships.
The Ath had rotten deck planks, unstable sailing despite it's ugly duck tail (the propeller wake was never straight) while the ocean swells were only a meter or two. Carpetting was repaired amateuristically, water leaks through the ceiling. Food was good but not exceptional.
I have booked a HAL cruise now and the price is, when you include the tips for the crew, the same as for the Ath. On the HAL you get better entertainment during the day ( i attended a Microsoft class to improve foto's on the PC. On the Ath the entertainment is zero (oh yes, they have shuttleboard!!!) Appearance of the Ath : a rusty bucket ripe for a one way ticket to Alang.