Pollution

rickles23
23rd November 2009, 06:04
Hi,

Interesting web site:
How 16 ships create as much pollution as all the cars in the world.

Link:

http://blog.luciolepress.com/2009/11/21/article-from-eco-expert-fred-pearce-how-16-ships-create-as-much-pollution-as-all-the-cars-in-the-world.aspx

Regards

Billieboy
23rd November 2009, 09:04
This is the second thread showing the same BS! I just don't understand how suposedly educated people can write such rubbish!

Philthechill
23rd November 2009, 10:55
This is the second thread showing the same BS! I just don't understand how suposedly educated people can write such rubbish!Billieboy! I tried getting some reaction to this garbage on Mess Deck under the same heading as above i.e. "Bit extreme" but nobody seems to have replied, as yet. It's amazing how so-called "eco expert", Fred Pearce, can come-up with such wild and woolly figures, e.g. "Each container-ship can carry up to 14,000 full-size containers", which is patently wrong as ALL container-ship capacity is quoted in T.E.U.'s (Twenty [foot] Equivalent Units) whereas (to me anyway) a "full-size container" is going to be a "Forty-footer". Salaams, Phil(Hippy)

Billieboy
23rd November 2009, 11:13
Phil, I just posted a comment on his article reply page that it's a load of irrisponsible BS. No return comments so far!
Forty footers? what about the wide BIG boxes? I'm glad Im ashore these days, all the load planning is done on the shore computer, all one has to do is park the boat and wait untill the computer says sail!

benjidog
23rd November 2009, 17:55
That links seems to be dead Rickles??

Thats another Story
23rd November 2009, 18:04
How Many Tons Of Rubber From Tyres Are Washed Into Drains Then Into The Sea In The World!!!!!!!!?

K urgess
23rd November 2009, 18:06
That links seems to be dead Rickles??

Works for me, Brian.

benjidog
23rd November 2009, 18:11
Still can't get it. Oh well probably best left unread!

rickles23
24th November 2009, 11:31
Hi Brian,
Just tried it and works fine for me.
As I don't know about marine pollution I thought a quick post on SN would let me know if the writer was being 'fair dinkum'.
Regards

billyboy
24th November 2009, 12:07
http://blog.luciolepress.com/2009/11/21/article-from-eco-expert-fred-pearce-how-16-ships-create-as-much-pollution-as-all-the-cars-in-the-world.aspx

Will this url help you Brian?

Orbitaman
24th November 2009, 12:56
I've just been doing a few sums on bunker consumption on our fleet of five handysized tankers. In the last year we have used 22,330 tonnes of high sulphur heavy fuel oil (The 4.5% type described in the article) and 6,455 tonnes of low sulphur heavy fuel oil (1.5% maximum sulphur). On the incorrect basis that all of the sulphur will dissappear up the funnel, that equates to 1,102 tonnes of sulphur going up the chimney between five ships.
A further little calculation using the experts figures worked backwards suggests that one of these monster ships is burning 304 tonnes of high sulphur fuel oil per day, every day of the year. This is interesting when the average fuel consumption quoted in various sources for a VLCC is 61 tonnes per day.
It should be noted that each VLCC is not underway 365 days per year and therefore not using 61 tonnes of fuel every day.
The current regulations require that vessels operating within certain limits in Europe, which just happen to include all of the east coast of the UK are only allowed to use low sulphur heavy fuel oil (1.5% sulphur).
All in all, the author of the articles figures just do not add up. Whether he is using old data or what, I do not know, but the suggestion that ship's exhaust fumes are to blame for health problems in the industrialised world is nothing more than a pr piece for the motor industry.
You only need to look at the smog over any industrialised city away from the sea to realise that the fumes from ship's funnel's are not the villains here!

Long gone
24th November 2009, 14:01
One wonders wether the author of this article would give up all the Chinese-made goods he owns; what's he suggesting? Sailing containerships?

On the pollution in cities thing; I live about 6 miles east of Manchester, and from the tops you can clearly see the brown haze hanging over the city, especially on warm days, or when there's not much wind.

Billieboy
24th November 2009, 14:07
Agree 100% Orbitman, the guy is supposed to be reasonably well educated, however he seems to lack an awful lot of commonsense! From the quality of the rubbish spouted so far, I'd say that he came out of the same idiot box that the guy from Greenpeace came out of, when he stated that the SPAR buoy that was to be dumped in the North Atlantic trench, still had 70,000tons of crude on board! As if Shell, or any other oil company, would throw away one bucket of oil more than the would have to!

Nick Balls
24th November 2009, 14:52
For years I have been trying to promote the "Green" potential of shipping !!!
I find it hard to believe that anyone could write something so daft!!!!! It is indeed true that we have seen cases of poor quality fuel used on ships. This is however an utterly separate issue. The UK is a prime example of the "Road lobby" destroying coastal sea transport over the last 50 years. Just imagine the effect of investing the same amount as has been spent on Motorways on port and shipping infrastructure . Our roads would no longer suffer the huge pollution that road transport brings. I can only guess that this chap must be a road lobbyist !!!

chadburn
24th November 2009, 15:12
Statistic's damned statistic's bedamned.(MAD)

ROBERT HENDERSON
24th November 2009, 16:15
Without going into statistics, which as we all know can be made to come up with answers to suit the group funding the researcher, I would go along with Nick and suggest the Road Transport Association is funding his research. I am always sceptical of what scientists come up with, because different ones will find different reasons for whatever according to who is providing the funding.

I remember one voyage on Lake Malawi we had a semi-retired cardiologist from London as a passenger. Every port we anchored he was over the side swimming, he liked a drink and smoked heavily. I happened to remark on his smoking one day, he replied: ''Researchers will find problems where problems do not exist.''

Regards Robert

Duncan112
24th November 2009, 20:13
Used the voting option at the base of the article - to see what the general opinion was: 80% disliked the article seems many share our opinion.

I note he doesnt mention all the other carcinogens that have been added to automotive fuel since the demise of leaded petrol.

chadburn
25th November 2009, 21:50
Without going into statistics, which as we all know can be made to come up with answers to suit the group funding the researcher, I would go along with Nick and suggest the Road Transport Association is funding his research. I am always sceptical of what scientists come up with, because different ones will find different reasons for whatever according to who is providing the funding.

I remember one voyage on Lake Malawi we had a semi-retired cardiologist from London as a passenger. Every port we anchored he was over the side swimming, he liked a drink and smoked heavily. I happened to remark on his smoking one day, he replied: ''Researchers will find problems where problems do not exist.''

Regards Robert

Robert, I couldn't agree with you more, I alway's look at who is paying for it all and the motive behind the stats, once you know there is a vested interest somewhere along the line the old "Pinch of Salt " comes in, not too much mind it's bad for your health. When I went for my medical the Doctor was smoking a large cigar and coughing away, when I made comment about him going to see a Doctor for his cough his answer was "Life is for living you could get killed by a car if your luck run's out" two years later he was killed in a motoring accident.

cryan
26th November 2009, 02:47
Cost per mile of goods traveling by sea is far less than by road as is their "pollution factor."
I would say that 60 tonnes per day is a bit low for a vlcc steaming at full chat though? I have never sailed on VLCC but I know that when I was on large box boats we could easily burn between 250 and 360 tons per day of heavy oil when full away. ( Sulzer 12RTA96C and 9RTA84C)
It does always amaze me how these so called eco warriors all seem to think that TV's come from Dixons and Bananas come from Tesco. Its hard enough being a Merchant Seaman these days without false accounting by these anarchists. Especially after they were caught out the other day in the UK doctoring their figures.

treeve
26th November 2009, 12:14
That brings it to the serious flaw in present day media hype. Some 'expert' can blather along every imaginable and unimaginable flawed hypothesis and dump it on the Net under the guise or 'protection' of an established umbrella, and leave it there. No retaliation, no correction, no apology. It is there to be found on every web search, and read by thousands. Even when there is a 'reply box' it is to be 'vetted' which invariably means left in the in tray. It is another addition to the irresponsible media hype with which we are cursed and is becoming a part of society and the nanny state, not allowing intelligent people to use their own knowledge and thought. Good to see intelligence reigns on SN ....