ex Brock's Engineer's

chadburn
30th November 2009, 20:40
Looking at the photo of H.M.S Brave and the comments about engineering equipment "on lease" took my memory back to the fitting of Rolls Royce gennies on some of Brock's Vessel's. If I remember correctly there was a special arrangement for the complete removal of the gennie's (after so many hours run) by Rolls Royce for a complete o/h or swop?. Were these genny's the property of Brock's or R.R. and what work were you allowed to carry out on them?

Derek Roger
30th November 2009, 21:11
One of the Brock steamships had 1 experimental Rolls Royce fitted . Dont know who owned the unit .
Mahout and Markor had 4 Rolls Royce diesel alternators 2 port and 2 Stbd in soundproofed compartments .
Initially the only work ships crew conducted were oil and filter changes Coolers and tappet adjustment .

Later this was changed and we were able allowed to do all the work . I was 3Rd Eng on Markor at the time ( 1969 ) and did the first 12000 hr strip down which was everything except removal of the crankshaft.

There are a few threads regarding Rolls Royce . I will see if I can find them for you .


Regards Derek

Derek Roger
30th November 2009, 21:25
Geordie chief ;
If you search forums using the advanced section and search for Rolls Royce you will find 74 threads with Rolls Royce in them .

The Brock ship with the first Rolls Royce I believe was the Mahronda .

Derek

gwzm
30th November 2009, 21:53
Hi, Although I was an R/O I did visit the engine room and as I recall the Makrana had Rolls Royce generators that were maintained on an exchange basis. The details are now long lost in the mists of time but I do remember that they were dreadfully noisy beasts.

gwzm

eriskay
30th November 2009, 22:08
I recall we had a Rolls Royce powered Air-Compressor set up in the foc'sle - I think it was the British Power, but may be wrong about that, (for driving 'windy' pumps for fire-fighting from the fore deck) and it was a beautiful machine. It was always in first class condition because the only use it ever got was when being tested. I used to run it periodically along with an Allen diesel generator set down below and a small emergency petrol-engine driven air-compressor for bottle charging.

On a particularly bad crossing from the Med to St Johns N.B. we got a severe mauling, during which she was down by the head and everything inside the foc'sle, oil drums, paint drums, detergents, ropes, tackle, etc, were liberated and the focsle head filled with sea up to coamings level. The loosed debris acted as a battering ram, pummelling everything in its path, and the item worst affected - the erstwhile beautiful white-painted Rolls Royce engine.

Apart from being virtually unrecognisable as an engine any longer, the battered remains were a hideous amalgamation of colours from the paint, mixed with detergent and oils, an unholy mess if ever there was. We were not allowed to leave St John until a new replacement unit had been procured, installed and tested.

No one could access the foc'sle for five days due to the weather. One attempt with four AB's almost ended in a tragedy, their life-lines being all that saved them, but did not prevent them from some serious injuries. Following that the Master forbade any further attempts to access the flooded pump room and foc'sle head.

Don A.Macleod
30th November 2009, 23:07
It was indeed the MAHRONDA that had the RR unit fitted.As I remember correctly it was an agreement between Brocks and RR to test a new engine for marine use.I joined her on 4/5/66 for coastal duties and she had just done the trip with this engine fitted and also had an RR engineer during the trip.

We had two or three RR engineers round the coast taking it to bits and doing mods to it and finally left in Antwerp,Bremen or wherever happy with everything and we headed for London for final loading before deepsea,now here come the laugh(wasn't funny at the time I suppose) we were not too far from Pilot pick up when we blacked out. Normally we would have been on two Rustons but the RR could take full load at sea so all was fine until then,no alarm, no nothing.My first reaction was the fuel solenoid fuel valve had failed but it was fine.

Anyway we berthed and there were RR people from various levels awaiting to conduct an "enquiry" which I believe resulted in some heads rolling. Apparently (again if my memory is correct) modified pistons had been fitted but the skirts were rather a bitty too long and fouled a conn.rod or rods and caused the failure. I'm not sure but I seem to remember it was later removed but not at that time. Donald

pensioner
30th November 2009, 23:19
I recall "standing by" in Liverpool, during 1966 Strike, on Cunard cargo vessels. They had RR alternators they could be relied upon was to overheat, due to water pump failure, or run drive bearing on engine fitted 24vDC? alternator and break pistons/conn rods. They definately were not up to RR standards.

R798780
30th November 2009, 23:32
Hi, Although I was an R/O I did visit the engine room and as I recall the Makrana had Rolls Royce generators that were maintained on an exchange basis. The details are now long lost in the mists of time but I do remember that they were dreadfully noisy beasts.

gwzm

Are you sure it was Makrana ? I understood that Makrana had two steam generators and one Ruston from the Black Four - could that tie in with Don's RR on Mahronda - having started life with three steam generators. In 1970 we had all sorts of problems on Makrana, several were generator problems. But it was a relatively quiet engine room, no loud RR generators. I recall the alternators on Mahout in 1964 being very vocal, and no ear defenders then.

Derek Roger
30th November 2009, 23:50
I am sure it was not Makrana with a Rolls Royce . I will check with my brother who sailed on her .
Derek

Don A.Macleod
1st December 2009, 00:54
Not aware of any other ships with RR driven generators(sorry alternators!) other than Mahout and Markhor,this Mahronda one was bigger.Hughs response triggers something about the Makrana being fitted with a diesel but pretty certain it wasn't a RR. As you say Derek, Cammy should be able to confirm.Yes the last Manipur and Mahronda were fitted with in line eights by RR but they weren't Brocks ships.!! Donald.

Jim S
1st December 2009, 16:30
Derek is correct in that Mahronda had a Rolls-Royce generator set.
I believe one of her Ruston VEBZ diesel generators had wrecked itself and the opportunity was taken to replace with a Rolls-Royce set as much as a trial as a replacement.
Jim Pottinger has commented on this in the past - I believe there was an advert in the technical press of the time with a photo of the generator set.
I believe Makrana and Mawana each had a Ruston.

Derek Roger
1st December 2009, 17:01
There is a photograph of one of the units on Mahout in my gallery for those who want to relive the moment .
Derek

chadburn
1st December 2009, 17:15
Thanks to all for the responses, as it appears that the engine(s) were on a trial basis then one could assume? that in the beginning they most probably still belonged to R.R.

Derek Roger
1st December 2009, 19:47
I think that may have been the case on Mahronda but Mahout and Markhor had them from the outset when new builds at Alexander Stephens Glasgow

Derek

Jim S
1st December 2009, 20:19
Or maybe even Mahout and MARKHOR - Derek

Don A.Macleod
1st December 2009, 21:20
I think Jim that Derek had a touch of Paxmanitis there,now that was a disease!

Derek Roger
1st December 2009, 21:29
Thanks Guys ! I have corrected the thread . Its just the Maihar sticks in my memory since we blew up the Gear Box leaving Yokohama .

Jim S
1st December 2009, 21:54
Derek,
We have seen the photo of the heroes of the Maihar incident and were promised the story of the gearbox explosion but I cannot remember reading it.

Derek Roger
2nd December 2009, 00:19
Derek,
We have seen the photo of the heroes of the Maihar incident and were promised the story of the gearbox explosion but I cannot remember reading it.

I have to take responsibility for not posting the affair ; I promise it is coming.

Derek

Philthechill
2nd December 2009, 00:27
I did many trips on "Makrana" from 29/8/62 to 31/10/65 going from Panch Sahib (5/E) through to Chota Tin (pronounced "Teen") Sahib (J3/E) and I would have noticed a RR engine in that length of time!

Electrics were, as Hugh said, provided by two Ashworth and Parker steam recips and one Ruston 5VEBZ.

The two ACL ships (Atlantic Causeway and Conveyor) had RR emergency alternators and I had cause to "use" one of them one night in Liverpool.

For one, very rare, occasion we weren't in the middle of a monster shut-down and were just maintaining sea-watches.

I was on 12-4.

Around 02.00hrs. I'd gone up to the emergency-generator flat to check everything was tickety-boo (jacket-heaters doing their stuff etc.) with the RR's and had to pick my way over all kinds of sleeping dockers who chose to kip in there because it was toasty-warm.

Me, ever the gent, apologising to these idle sods for disturbing them, as I went about my business, suddenly thought, "These buggers are getting paid God knows how much because their effing Union has negotiated that manning by dockers, on container-ships, has got to be the same as it is on regular cargo-ships so there's lot's of them can have a kip!"

I hatched a plan!

Returning to the Control Room, and before thinking TOO much about it, I headed straight for the RR start-up panel and pushed the Green (Start) button.

Giving it two/three minutes I then pushed the Red (Stop) button and then went back to the (now empty) emergency-generator room!

Needless to say the screams from the dockers were almost human and there was talk of them calling all hands to walk off the ship. They soon realised that they'd look pretty stupid complaining about being woken-up (when they were supposed to be working!!!) by an engine starting-up in a compartment liberally plastered with notices warning, "Machinery can start-up at any time", or something like that.

Mind you, thinking about it afterwards, it would be pretty alarming being in there when the engine fired-up. Anyone sleeping lightly MAY have heard the muted noise of the oil priming-pump start and then, seconds later and without any further clue as to what was about to happen, the RR V8 would burst into (very) noisy life!!!!

The 2nd Mate who witnessed the rapid exodus from the RR compartment said it was hilarious seeing them all pouring-out effing and blinding at having their zizz disturbed!!! Salaams, Phil(Hippy)

Ron Stringer
2nd December 2009, 01:08
Phil,

Surely you are mistaken there, your memory must be failing you. The description of those people sleeping in the engine room in no way resembles the honest, trust-worthy, hard-working and fun-loving scousers that are so often referred to on other threads. Must say, however, that they much resemble those 1960s dockers that I saw in Huskisson and West Float, but I had always assumed that those people had been bussed in from somewhere else than Merseyside.

Don't try and convince me otherwise.

Philthechill
2nd December 2009, 08:28
Phil,

Surely you are mistaken there, your memory must be failing you. The description of those people sleeping in the engine room in no way resembles the honest, trust-worthy, hard-working and fun-loving scousers that are so often referred to on other threads. Must say, however, that they much resemble those 1960s dockers that I saw in Huskisson and West Float, but I had always assumed that those people had been bussed in from somewhere else than Merseyside.

Don't try and convince me otherwise. Ron! I'm sorry to have maligned the reputation (trashed nearly!) of those lovable, hard-working, "every-one-a-born-comedian" Liverpool dock "workers" of the 1960's-70's!!!!

Daring to hint that they would take advantage of an extreme Union-run, welded-up, closed-shop system, which very nearly ruined the ability of Britain to move forward into the container-age of shipping goods, was a step too far, just to gain a cheap laugh.

Quite, quite unforgivable!

I'm sure you are correct when you suggest that those idle sods, I caught sleeping in the emergency-generator flat were, indeed, bussed in from some other part of England as no genuine dyed-in-the-wool, laugh-a-minute, Liverpool docker would deign to take advantage of the vast over-manning, demanded by "The Union", when it came to unloading container-ships!

However there is just one point you could (perhaps?) clarify for me.

Why was it necessary for every man-jack of those "pseudo-Scousers", (I scared half to death), to have perfected the "Scouse" accent so convincingly? Not only did they have undistinguishable-from-the-real-thing accents they all wore Liverpool or Everton scarves!!!

I realise that they probably entered into the whole spirit of pretending they were Scousers and in trying to copy their oh-so-humorous genuine docker-friends ergo they HAD to wear the tribal-colours, that their mentors wore, to complete the illusion.

It was that "every-one-a-born-comedian" ethos, (that I came so close to trashing) which was so lovable about the Liverpool dockers, of those halcyon days of extreme Union-power, that is such a wonderful memory to all who came into contact with Liverpool Docks & Harbour Board employees. All I can do, to try expunge this dreadful slur, is prostrate myself (metaphorically!) before you, Ron, and, by connection, every other Liverpool-docker-lover of those days and apologise most profusely! Salaams, Phil(Hippy)

P.S. Another point too, Ron. If those lovable rogues, who exited the generator flat at warp-speed when I fired-up the RR, had been genuine, laugh-a-minute, Liverpool dockers they would have been falling about laughing at the brilliant joke I'd just worked on them whereas the pseudo-Scousers, who emerged at great speed, were threatening to "kill the t**t who started that engine!"

It would be the genuine Liverpool dockers, too, who would persuade the pseudo-Scousers NOT to walk off the ship in protest. They probably shamed them, into staying on board, by saying (whilst convulsed with laughter) something like, "If you want to be like a REAL Liverpool docker you've got to be able to take a joke!"

My God the case aginst me gets more damning by the minute! Burra salaams, Phil:(

Ron Stringer
2nd December 2009, 13:06
Thanks Phil. Wonderful response.

But wasn't it terrible that a pack of lazy, skiving, b*stards such as those could threaten to sully the fair name of Scouseland? Good job the honest people of Liverpool quickly got rid of them and restored the reputation of Toxteth, the Dingle and all points North and West.