Ady Gil and Nisshin Maru… a saga of claim and counter claim (merged threads)

SN NewsCaster
6th January 2010, 08:10
Anti-whaling activists accuse a Japanese whaling ship of a ramming attack on one of their boats in Antarctic waters.

More from BBC News... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/news/int/search/news%2Bsport/ship/-/2/hi/asia-pacific/8442808.stm)

SeaShipDev
6th January 2010, 10:49
G'day,

Here is an article from ABC News:

The anti-whaling group says Japanese security ship Shonan Maru 2 has sheared off the bow of the Ady Gil, its high-speed carbon fibre boat.

Japanese whalers are also accused of using Australian charter planes to spy on the whereabouts of Sea Shepherd vessels.

The president and founder of Sea Shepherd, Captain Paul Watson, says this afternoon's attack will not hurt the group's resolve to stop whaling.

"If they think that our remaining two ships will retreat from the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary in the face of their extremism, they will be mistaken," he said.

"We now have a real whale war on our hands now and we have no intention of retreating."

Chris Aultman, the helicopter pilot on board the Sea Shepherd's Steve Irwin, says no one was hurt in the attack, but it could have been fatal.

"Luckily no one was in the bow of the vessel at the time of the collision or they certainly would have been killed instantly," he said.

Mr Aultman says the attack was unprovoked.

"At the time of the collision, the vessel was dead in the water. It was motionless and there was no confrontation taking place between the two vessels," he said.

"The Shonan Naru just must have seen a suitable target and took upon itself to strike the vessel. It was a completely and absolutely wilful act."

The six crew on board the Ady Gil have been transferred to the Sea Shepherd's third ship, the Bob Barker, which put out a distress call after the attack.

Sea Shepherd unveiled the Ady Gil, worth $1.5 million, in October last year. The ship could reach up to 50 knots and was used to intercept and block harpoon ships from killing whales.

ABC News - http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/06/2786875.htm

doyll
6th January 2010, 14:48
PIctures speak a thousand words.

video of Ady Gil trying to power in front of Shonan Maru from Shonan Maru:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dXCR9LX-Kc

from Sea Shepherd boat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbuq0YEIPNU

Pictures of Ady Gil projectile launcher (stink bomb gun) and using a lazer to blind Shonan Maru crew:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1237983/Sea-Shepherd-Societys-trimaran-Ady-Gil-sheared-half-rammed-Japanese-vessel.html

another longer video of Ady Gil from Shonan Maru:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8443309.stm

Notice Ady Gil wake a few seconds before impact. Looks to me like she applied full power to get her bow in front of Shonan Maru. No way the Shanan Maru could avoid her.

treeve
6th January 2010, 14:57
Can anyone explain why whaling continues? I was last told the Japanese are only killing whales for research ... what is to discover, they are dead. What happens to the bodies? What if medical authorities all over the world acted in the same way with humans?

MikeK
6th January 2010, 15:35
I don't agree with the killing of whales for commercial gain (the far eastern interpretation is 'scientific studies !), but nor do I agree with the extreme provocations these followers of Paul Watson are carrying out. From the videos in Doyll's posting, they definitely accelerated under the bow of the Shonan Maru. If somebody had been killed on the Ady Gil I have no doubt it would have been the Japanese seamen wrongly deemed to have been in the wrong.
Ideally this should all be sorted by world politicians, but then you look around you and come to your senses (Take Copenhagen for instance !)
Mike

salvina
6th January 2010, 15:36
Why am I not surprised? This scenario was brought up when the picture of the Ady Gil was posted quite a few weeks ago. Go whalers go!(Thumb)

Billieboy
6th January 2010, 15:36
Might be an idea to send the whaling fleet over to deal with the Somali Pirates!

Klaatu83
6th January 2010, 15:58
It's pretty clear from the video that the trimaran was playing "chicken" with the Shanan Maru. A very wise guy once told me that the most important rule of the nautical road was the unwritten "Rule of Size", to wit, "The bigger one always has the right of way over the little one because, whether the stone hits the pitcher or the pitcher hits the stone, it's always going to be worse for the pitcher".

That being said, the damage done by these whalers is bad enough, but who's protesting the depredations of the rest of the world-wide pelagic fishing industry? Ship-sized industrial fishing vessels from countries such as Russia, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China, and Korea sail thousands of miles from home to fish out other nation's coastal waters, taking everything and leaving nothing. They do far more damage to the ocean ecosystem than the whalers ever do. Why aren't these Greenpeace fanatics protesting against that?

chadburn
6th January 2010, 16:18
Who on earth thought it was a good idea to take on the Steel Whaler's with a plastic (Carbon Fibre) boat, they really are crackpot's and lucky to get away with their live's. This outfit has more money than sense.

AncientBrit
6th January 2010, 16:27
It's pretty clear from the video that the trimaran was playing "chicken" with the Shanan Maru. A very wise guy once told me that the most important rule of the nautical road was the unwritten "Rule of Size", to wit, "The bigger one always has the right of way over the little one because, whether the stone hits the pitcher or the pitcher hits the stone, it's always going to be worse for the pitcher".

That being said, the damage done by these whalers is bad enough, but who's protesting the depredations of the rest of the world-wide pelagic fishing industry? Ship-sized industrial fishing vessels from countries such as Russia, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China, and Korea sail thousands of miles from home to fish out other nation's coastal waters, taking everything and leaving nothing. They do far more damage to the ocean ecosystem than the whalers ever do. Why aren't these Greenpeace fanatics protesting against that?

The simple answer to the question is because little old ladies and others with money to donate to Paul Watsons irresponsible and delinquent life style dont go all dewy eyed over fish. Canada ceased clubbing baby seals long ago but Watson and his organization still use the image to gather donations from well meaning donors. Unfortunately Watson realised long ago that the truth fades into the background when compared to the mammamorial magnificence of Pamela Anderson that other spokes-person for animal rights from Vancouver Island. If her IQ matched her chest size she would realise that she is being scammed by Watson, just like everyone else.

Satanic Mechanic
6th January 2010, 17:13
I fail to see any reason for commercial whaling these days and I do have a certain grudging admiration for the Sea Shepherd squad - they really are willing to put their lives on their line for their beliefs. However that admiration can only go so far - when it comes to endangering others lives and they are not adverse to the old ramming tactic themselves that I have zero tolerance for. They really should not complain when it backfires and they get hit.

However if either side is using deliberate ramming as a tactic I find that unforgivable no matter who is doing it. Unless it is a matter of war or something you do not put others lives at risk.

I believe that in the past the whalers have helped the protesters when they have been in trouble I can only hope that would be reciprocated, I wouldn't be putting money on it though.

Just watched the video and I must admit what Sea Shepherd say does not really match up with the video

John N MacDonald
6th January 2010, 17:42
These clowns should be up in court for endangering the crew of the Ady Gil.They definately acceleterated into the Japanese ship.
I don't agree with whaling but Sea Shepherd make the likes of Greenpeace look bad.
Paul Watson was allegedly shot the last whaling season. Why was he wearing a bullet proof vest in the 1st place? Having discussed the incident with a mate who has wide experience of firearms my mate reckons that if he had been shot from as close as the Japanese ship was he would probably have been knocked over.
Instead of letting the Japanese and others continue to go whaling for alleged research pressure should be put on them by their trading partners to quit this practice.

Billieboy
6th January 2010, 19:43
Greenpeace and their ilk always were a bunch of stupid idiots!

wbeedie
6th January 2010, 20:53
Click this link to see the story HERE (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6977316.ece).

About time althoug i dont condone whaling these guys got their just desserts for their foolish and dangerous behaviour at sea which they have endangered their own and the whalers crews life with their actions

The boat in question
http://www.trawlerpictures.net/index...=view;id=22640
__________________

Taken from their website:
Famed trimaran is sinking in the Southern Ocean

Six crewmembers Rescued by the Sea Shepherd Ship Bob Barker

In an unprovoked attack captured on film, the Japanese security ship Shonan Maru No. 2 deliberately rammed and caused catastrophic damage to the Sea Shepherd trimaran Ady Gil.

Six crew crewmembers, four from New Zealand, one from Australia, and one from the Netherlands were immediately rescued by the crew of the Sea Shepherd ship Bob Barker. None of the crew Ady Gil crew were injured.

The Ady Gil is believed to be sinking and chances of salvage are very grim.


[url]http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-...-100105-4.html[/url

This from Wikipedia @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthrace

Quote
he vessel was designed by Craig Loomis Design Group and built by Calibre Boats. The wave-piercing trimaran design allows for improved speed and stability. Additional stability is also provided by its two large sponsons and it is designed to right itself if it capsizes. The hull is composed of a composite carbon fibre and kevlar with a non-toxic anti-foul paint.[1]

The ship is powered by two 540 horsepower Cummins Mercruiser engines that run on a low-emission animal fat and vegetable oil mix biodiesel.[2] Then in 2005, the operator underwent liposuction and converted 100 grams of his own body fat into fuel as a publicity stunt. It can also run on diesel, biodiesel or blends. To cool and provide fresh air to the engines, intakes are located on two dramatic fins.[3]

It cost $2.5 million, which was mostly funded by sponsors. When asked, "Regrets about the cost of it all?" skipper Pete Bethune replied "No...You know, I do have the coolest boat in the world."


Also official web site here but doesn't seem to be up to date - http://www.earthrace.net/

Quote
It has been announced that the Earthrace will accompany Sea Shepherd in in its 2009-2010 operations against Japanese Whaling in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary. Pete Bethune, the operator, says that an agreement was reached with Sea Shepherd for the boat to adopt a support role.[12] On 17 October 2009, the Earthrace was presented to the media with a new black paint job and re-named Ady Gil.The Sea Shepherd's owner and founder, Captain Paul Watson, says he plans to use the vessel to physically block Japanese harpoon ships.]

benjidog
6th January 2010, 22:25
I have little sympathy for either Watson's lunatics or the Japanese whalers but this looks extremely dangerous and could easily have resulted in someone being killed. Maybe they are looking for martyrdom?

JoK
7th January 2010, 00:19
capable of 40 knots and it gets rammed. yeh right. Paul Watson should have his ar$e thrown in jail for risking all of those kids lives.

Satanic Mechanic
7th January 2010, 01:06
capable of 40 knots and it gets rammed. yeh right. Paul Watson should have his ar$e thrown in jail for risking all of those kids lives.

Did you watch the video? - its kinda hard to describe what the hell they done. All thats missing is a bubble coming out of the wheelhouse saying "sorry I thought that was astern"

wbeedie
7th January 2010, 01:13
http://us.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2010/01/06/lah.japan.whaling.ship.collision.cnn
Video from the SSCS vessel from angle looks like they are in the wrong but from whaling vessel looks like they the whalers are in the right but a few lively debates going on about this on other sites

JoK
7th January 2010, 02:07
My comment stands.
Paul Watson said the exact same thing after the collision with the CG icebreaker, "an unprovoked attack". He is nuts and if my son announced he was sailing on one of SS POS vessels, I would knock him down and tie him up to save his life.

teb
7th January 2010, 02:54
JOK,WBEEDIE,SATANIC MECHANIC,BENJIDOG-

If your respective goverments and mine were to once and for all stop the Japanese from carrying out the ILLEGAL -PRACTICE OF WHALING,these people you label idiots would not have to persue their protest over something they feel strongly about.This incident took place in Australian
Antartic economic zone,(where they certainly should not have been whaling ),also the Capt of the Andy Gil-claims his vessel was hove to being low on fuel when he was rammed,whereas the Japanese claim it cut across it's bow !!!! The Australian Government say they do not condone the actions of the Japanese, but have not yet taken the matter of whaling to the international courts as previously promised. The opposition are calling for an Australian Ship to be sent South to restore order.

lagerstedt
7th January 2010, 06:44
Here in NZ two former Masters, [1] a maritime accident investigator and [2] head of the Auckland Maritime School have indicated that Both vessels were in the wrong as Both had ample time to alter course therefore avoiding the collision.

The Kiwi vessel was towing a rope astern in an attemple to foul the props of the Japanese vessel and appeared to speed up up before the impact.

I am only a mess deck lawyer or bush lawyer so my findings agree with the two ex skippers in that both vessels had ample time to alter course. The kiwi vessel was towing a rope astern trying to foul the japan flaged vessel therefore the kiwi vessel is guilty of an illegal maritime act.

Any more comments.

Regards
Blair
Central Hawkes Bay
NZ

PS: The kiwis might find it hard to claim on the insurance as the kiwi vessel is valued at $1.5m NZ.

RNW
7th January 2010, 08:07
I lament the destruction of Ady Gil, and have decided to act!
We cannot let this unlawful act of high seas attempted slaughter go by without action.

I instructed my wife to get rid of her car immediatly! to be told it was a V dub,( it looked like a Toyota ) oh, OK just a thought.

"We will never eat Sushi in this house again!!! " We have never eaten Sushi in this house apparently, -- bugger!

" I will never eat using chop sticks- ever! Wife: " You have never been clever enough to use chopsticks " OK, I have a plan B.

I'll write to that tall, bald, usless pop singer who was going to save the planet years ago, he will help?
Hey, he is a minister, he must have weight, he must frighten the Japs, they will surely listen to him.

I think me not eating Sushi will frighten them more.

What a useless waste of public money this minister is. But hey; I don't have the coal exporters taking me to lunch, explaining that if you calm down about whaling, the Japs wont go to Brazil, or Indonesia for their coal, what would you do??

Australian exports are vital to this country, so what is the answer?

The answer is, no matter what, we cannot let anybody kill these wonderful creatures no matter the consequnences, and we have to support Captain Paul Watson and his wonderful team in the southern ocean.

I know that the Australian Government is is so timid when it comes to Japan, that it will come down to Paul protecting the whales all by himself!!

Lancastrian
7th January 2010, 09:13
JOK,WBEEDIE,SATANIC MECHANIC,BENJIDOG-

also the Capt of the Andy Gil-claims his vessel was hove to being low on fuel when he was rammed ... .

As it apparently has a fuel capacity to take it half way round the world, he is either lying or is negligent.

Basil
7th January 2010, 09:37
I think we are getting a bit too precious about whales.
Conservation, not reverence.
In Australia I believe it is a criminal offence to snorkel up and touch one.

As for the Ady Gil, well her skipper did deliberately put her in harms way and paid the price - very fortunate that no one was killed or injured.

Cisco
7th January 2010, 09:46
Hove to my left goolie.....
I equate their behaviour with that of the tropical hardwood protesters in Oz about 15 years ago. They were putting their kayaks between the wharf and ships being 'pushed up' alongside. Serves them bloody right if they get hurt...

I wish the Japs would take their whaling off to NZ's antarctic economic zone and bother them instead.

Speaking of which I didn't think nations had 'economic zones' in Antarctica or its waters.

Cisco
7th January 2010, 10:27
"Australia is investigating the crash because it happened in Antarctic waters claimed by Australia, New Zealand because the Ady Gil is registered there and Japan because a Japanese vessel was involved."

It would appear that Australia's claim to those waters would not stand up in an international court therefore what if anything does it all have to do with the Australian government?

trotterdotpom
7th January 2010, 10:43
I got an iPod for Christmas and haven't figured it out yet. I'm sure there's some whale porn in there somewhere, even though it was made in China.

John T.

John Briggs
7th January 2010, 10:46
Cisco - quite correct!
On the news here it has been reported that the acting Prime Minister has instructed the Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA) to investigate the accident. Not only is this very unusual as the Australian Transport Safety Bureau investigate all accidents, not AMSA, but under what authority does Australia think they can conduct the investigation.

Archie NS
7th January 2010, 10:48
What are Paul Watson's qualifications? I know he calls himself Captain!

Mike S
7th January 2010, 11:07
Only because the incident occurred in the Australian SAR Zone of responsibility.
We have no claim over the area and to say so is misleading.
Frankly I agree both vessels are in the wrong however there is little doubt in my mind the the Master of the whaler was in primary fault.
As for the vitriol directed at Watson......you would get little support here in Oz.
.........but then you guys have no idea of the historical animosity felt by Australians towards Japan.

Cisco
7th January 2010, 11:36
.
.........but then you guys have no idea of the historical animosity felt by Australians towards Japan.

Yep, you'll never see a Toyota in an RSL carpark.....

rickles23
7th January 2010, 11:38
Hi and I quote:

"that tall, bald, usless pop singer who was going to save the planet years ago".

He is currently being briefed on the incident. In my opinion he is a waste of air and space.
Regards

SN NewsCaster
7th January 2010, 11:40
New Zealand and Australia say they will investigate the alleged ramming of the Sea Shepherd anti-whaling ship.

More from BBC News... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/news/int/search/news%2Bsport/ship/-/2/hi/asia-pacific/8445504.stm)

Mike S
7th January 2010, 11:40
The comments saying that the Ady Gil sped up seconds before impact are not accurate. If you stop stop frame the video you in fact will see her drifting down wind. Very slippery boat that. So it leaves a wake when engines are stopped.
Then as the whaler swings to starboard it APPEARS that the Ady Gil is speeding up when in fact it is because you are watching her from the whaler. The relative angle closes because of the starboard swing. Any yachtsman or tug master will know what I am talking about.
She then speeds up quickly because she is being dragged by the larger vessel and if you look under the stern of the Ady Gil you will see her engines going astern.
I am not going into the right and wrongs of why Watson and his mates are there other than to say I am strongly anti whaling. There is no need for it other than Japanese Bushido.

JoK
7th January 2010, 12:44
What are Paul Watson's qualifications? I know he calls himself Captain!
I know when he buys a ship in Canada, it is immediately registered as a yacht. As a yacht it is not covered by the Shipping Act and therefore is not required to be inspected by Transport Canada.
I expect his Captaincy is as valid.

John Briggs
7th January 2010, 12:53
Yep, you'll never see a Toyota in an RSL carpark.....

(Applause)

chadburn
7th January 2010, 13:07
Obviously they were not aware of the term "sniffing" and the effect of Bow Pressure Waves and the"near fatal attraction" in this case.

teb
7th January 2010, 13:35
Lancastrian- you never fail do you? apparently you have already decided who is to blame .Both parties are of course blaming each other I think we should hold back until The Australian Maritime Safety Authority and it's New Zealand counterpart hold their official enquiry.(which apparently it is said they will hold)
Have just been watching a TV program here in Perth where they relay'd interviews /conversations with a crew member from each vessel- as you would expect they both blamed each other. Also an International Marine Lawyer was asked for his opinion on who was to blame-He claimed from the footage so far released it was not possible to say who or whether both were to blame.(The point on Low on Fuel was quoted in this mornings local press!!) One thing the lawyer did say was that in his mind it was reprehensible that the Japanese vessel shold have continued to use high pressure hoses on "Andy Gil" after the collision occurred .

Cisco -Thhe Australian Govt.believes it has an Australian Economic Zone-Maybe that news has not reached your part of world yet!!


Ian No matter whether it's "precious" or not,it is I believe a fact that Commercial Whaling is illegal in those Southern Waters= But of course I also understand that the Japanese kill them purely for scientific purposes only.Iwas told the number they are aiming to kill and study this year is in the hundreds!!(EEK)

I do not condone reckless and dangerous practices on the high seas - but until such time that all our governments put an end to this charade of allowing whales to be slaughtered in the name of science I for one say good luck to Sea Shepherd

JoK
7th January 2010, 13:58
In other words the end justify the means

Not in my world

Billieboy
7th January 2010, 14:13
The fact that the speed boat was towing a rope and attempting to get the catcher's prop fouled; puts the speed boat in the wrong long before any collision takes place.

non descript
7th January 2010, 14:38
A while before Noah got into the seafaring habit there was a story of the Leopard and the Rhino….

It seems the leopard was waiting in the long grass poised to rush at the rhino, who was ambling along looking for things to trample on. The leopard’s agility that made it supremely able to leap from almost stationary, to some 35 mph in a trice, was brought to bear and it duly leapt into right the path of the on-coming rhino and had its nose badly broken in the collision….

Seemingly the Leopard then ran off into the undergrowth crying for all its might, and claiming a foul by the Rhino, who it is suggested should have stopped in its tracks and not trodden on the leopard, even though it flung itself under its feet on purpose.

The leopard had a spin doctor who puts its case to the Animal King, but the result was as embarrassing as it was inconclusive; for the ruling handed down went along the lines of “People in glass houses, should avoid throwing themselves at the walls”.

The Animal King also observed that not for the first time since the start of life; it rather depends on where one starts the story as to what the final picture is… Start it when the leopard is stationary and you get one result, start it a tad later when the feline is being smashed by the feet of the rhino and it looks a lot different.

All in all, it may be wise not to leap out into traffic claiming you have the right of way…(Jester)

wbeedie
7th January 2010, 14:48
A very apt story for this thread Tonga and the similarities are too similar wonder how the maritime agencies will find the answer and if pressure will be put on by the governments to get the correct answers out rather than the truthful one

teb
7th January 2010, 15:55
A very apt story for this thread Tonga and the similarities are too similar wonder how the maritime agencies will find the answer and if pressure will be put on by the governments to get the correct answers out rather than the truthful one

Ahh. Yee of little faith!!!!(Jester) Teb

wbeedie
7th January 2010, 16:02
Ahh. Yee of little faith!!!!(Jester) Teb

And why would I think that:rolleyes:

Cisco
7th January 2010, 19:44
Cisco -Thhe Australian Govt.believes it has an Australian Economic Zone-Maybe that news has not reached your part of world yet!!


Yes it says it has a 'claim' due to being in Antarctica prior to the signing of the Antarctic Treaty in 1961( Article 4 - the treaty does not recognize, dispute, nor establish territorial sovereignty claims) .... much the same as Argentina having a 'claim' to the Malvinas.

As I understand it Australia can do nothing unless their claim is recognised which isn't going to happen. The pollies are simply grandstanding and they know it. Why do you think toothfish poachers are only chased if they are caught fishing around Heard Island?

BTW the Antarctic Treaty Secretariat is based in Buenos Aires.

teb
8th January 2010, 02:01
In other words the end justify the means

Not in my world

Jok. If Good Men Stand By and Do Nothing etc etc.

JoK
8th January 2010, 02:19
I'll ignore that teb, because we have been dealing with the asshat and his lies a long time. You have no idea what my opinion is regard whaling. What you know is my implacable hatred of this man. I will NEVER think what he does is OK in any sense of the word.
You know, I had the most awful thought today, I'll bet Watson secretly hopes one of these idealistic kids get killed in these sea shepard originated conflicts. Then he can stand there, weep crocodile tears about the evil people in the ships that have caused this accident, and the naive misguided ones open their wallets wider and pour the money into his greedy hands.
I despise this man.

JeffM
8th January 2010, 03:51
Tonga, the leopard had a spot doctor and lived in a grass house. However, the outcome is still the same.

teb
8th January 2010, 04:17
(Yes it says it has a 'claim' due to being in Antarctica prior to the signing of the Antarctic Treaty in 1961( Article 4 - the treaty does not recognize, dispute, nor establish territorial sovereignty claims) .... much the same as Argentina having a 'claim' to the Malvinas.

As I understand it Australia can do nothing unless their claim is recognised which isn't going to happen. The pollies are simply grandstanding and they know it. Why do you think toothfish poachers are only chased if they are caught fishing around Heard Island?

BTW the Antarctic Treaty Secretariat is based in Buenos Aires.

Cisco -I bow to your superior knowledge on territorial sovereignty matters(POP)Just for the record according to the media here to-day the Australian Govt.(Deputy Prime Minister Gillard) says it has ordered The Maritime Safety Officials to carry out it's own investigation!!(Now I'm going to cool off in the pool-36/38 degs forecast to-day in my neck off the woods.)

non descript
8th January 2010, 08:35
..... I'll bet Watson secretly hopes one of these idealistic kids get killed in these sea shepard originated conflicts. Then he can stand there, weep crocodile tears about the evil people in the ships that have caused this accident, and the naive misguided ones open their wallets wider and pour the money into his greedy hands.
I despise this man.

JoK, to my mind a wholly accurate a very valid comment (Thumb)

Billieboy
8th January 2010, 08:41
I'll ignore that teb, because we have been dealing with the asshat and his lies a long time. You have no idea what my opinion is regard whaling. What you know is my implacable hatred of this man. I will NEVER think what he does is OK in any sense of the word.
You know, I had the most awful thought today, I'll bet Watson secretly hopes one of these idealistic kids get killed in these sea shepard originated conflicts. Then he can stand there, weep crocodile tears about the evil people in the ships that have caused this accident, and the naive misguided ones open their wallets wider and pour the money into his greedy hands.
I despise this man.

Have to agree with you too JoK!

RNW
8th January 2010, 08:47
Jok, I think " knock him down, and tie him up" says it all. This explains the mentality why seals get stabbed in the head.
We humans have to look after what we have, because I can't imagine a world where there are no animals, no whales, no fish, no dolphins, and we are left with morons who just want to kill everything.
Killing whales does not feed Japan, they will not starve without them, so why kill them? These wondeful creatures are probably more inteligent than the average human, ( Canada included) so this is murder, and
it has to be stopped.
I dont accept that we are the masters of the animal kingtom, because if that was true I would eat my dog if I felt hungry.

Lancastrian
8th January 2010, 09:03
Lancastrian- you never fail do you?

Yes teb, I never fail to condemn irresponsible behaviour at sea, by anyone, as would any right minded seafarer.

Mike S
8th January 2010, 09:52
Just a thought.........have any of you ever looked into the eye of a whale resting on the surface only a very short distance away from your craft.

We were stopped on the tug Kalgan awaiting an arriving vessel off Albany Western Australia one wet drizzly Winter's morning. Close to port the sea moved and a hump back longer that the tug slowly broke the surface. A huge eye looked right into ours..........

It lay there looking at us for what felt like minutes however I guess it was 30 seconds. It blew and sank from view. A faint swirl on the surface showed its passing and it was gone into the murk.

Are you people trying to tell me that you condone killing some thing like that for food you do not need, for oil that we do not need any more? If so then I am afraid you stand condemned by your attitude. Any one who has looked into the eye of a large whale knows that there is intelligence there.

There is no way in Gods world I can condone the actions of these Japanese for any excuse or reason. Their actions are foul and attract the equal and opposite reaction of some one like Watson and his crew.

Enuf said............

AncientBrit
8th January 2010, 09:53
Jok, I think " knock him down, and tie him up" says it all. This explains the mentality why seals get stabbed in the head.
We humans have to look after what we have, because I can't imagine a world where there are no animals, no whales, no fish, no dolphins, and we are left with morons who just want to kill everything.
Killing whales does not feed Japan, they will not starve without them, so why kill them? These wondeful creatures are probably more inteligent than the average human, ( Canada included) so this is murder, and
it has to be stopped.
I dont accept that we are the masters of the animal kingtom, because if that was true I would eat my dog if I felt hungry.

RNW, Had you taken the time to read exactly what JoK said and not run off with the misguided furvor of a true Watson disciple, you will see that she makes no mention of killing whales or support for the whaling activity.
We here in Canada have had to put up with the lies and money making scams of Mr Paul Watson for many years. We know the man to be a devious creature interested only in ensuring the future financial security or one, Paul Watson. Anything that will convince animal lovers such as yourself to donate to the cause is all that matters to him. The truth, other peoples lives and property mean nothing to this man in his delinquent search for publicity.
Which is the reason JoK said she would knock down and tie up her son rather that allow Paul Watson to risk his life for the glory of Paul Watson.
You failed to mention that that sort of mentality explains truck-loads of shot kangaroo's, but Oh dear! Watson isnt protesting that. I doubt theres much money to be made doing so.

billyboy
8th January 2010, 10:34
Watch the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rar9zxH1kts&feature=rec-LGOUT-real_rn-1r-4-HM

billyboy
8th January 2010, 10:36
they were warned off by the fire hoses. Deliberately got in front of the whaler in my book

teb
8th January 2010, 11:45
Yes teb, I never fail to condemn irresponsible behaviour at sea, by anyone, as would any right minded seafarer.


Lancastrian -with due respect neither I or you were there when this happend but unlike you it would appear I am prepared to wait until all the facts are known before casting judgment -Teb

teb
8th January 2010, 12:31
they were warned off by the fire hoses. Deliberately got in front of the whaler in my book

billyboy- I have watchedl the video and agree with expert advice given on aTV programme here that from pictures / video so far shown it is not possible to say who or whether both were at fault-until further clarification on this point I prefer to withhold my judgement.I will stick my neck out though and say they should not have been whaling in those waters in the first -place when none of this would have happened!!!!

Frank P
8th January 2010, 12:35
the damage done by these whalers is bad enough, but who's protesting the depredations of the rest of the world-wide pelagic fishing industry? Ship-sized industrial fishing vessels from countries such as Russia, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China, and Korea sail thousands of miles from home to fish out other nation's coastal waters, taking everything and leaving nothing. They do far more damage to the ocean ecosystem than the whalers ever do. Why aren't these Greenpeace fanatics protesting against that?

I fully agree with you.

Cheers Frank(Thumb)

JoK
8th January 2010, 12:36
This discussion is not my personal opinion of whales, whaling or sealing.
This discussion, IMO, is the totally unprofessional seafaring antics of the
sea shepard organization that puts their own people's life in danger.
These are young idealistic people who have little idea of the danger Watson puts them in.
And the fact that someone here puts in writing, about sticking sharp instruments in seal's heads shows just how succesful Watson's lies are and how lazy people are that they just take him at his word. Or maybe too fascinated by Pam Anderson frontage.

teb
8th January 2010, 12:45
This discussion is not my personal opinion of whales, whaling or sealing.
This discussion, IMO, is the totally unprofessional seafaring antics of the
sea shepard organization that puts their own people's life in danger.
These are young idealistic people who have little idea of the danger Watson puts them in.
And the fact that someone here puts in writing, about sticking sharp instruments in seal's heads shows just how succesful Watson's lies are and how lazy people are that they just take him at his word. Or maybe too fascinated by Pam Anderson frontage.

Jok your wrench is getting bigger by the day!!!

JoK
8th January 2010, 13:15
Can't handle it?

JoK
8th January 2010, 13:25
I will tell you how naive these crewmembers are.
I have been involved in several boarding party training sessions with DND. It is serious business and these guys do not fool around. As a civie, it was, to say the least, daunting to watch. The RCMP have the same practice.
When the sea shepard boat Farley Mowatt was boarded in the Gulf of St Lawrence in 2007, the crew was dumbfounded to be ordered to get on the deck immediately and when they didn't they were put to the deck.
One of the lady crew members complained about it. I suspect she must have had a very high opinion of herself or be very stunned, because after seeing how the boarding parties work, most people would be so damm scared that they would drop like a stone.
These people think they above the law. And they don't give a $hit who they will hurt. They are no better then those terrorsits that will strap a bomb on their waist and go into a market.

doyll
8th January 2010, 13:45
I'm not getting into the pro/anti-whale debate. This thread is about altercation between Ady Gil and Shonan Maru. Paul Watson's record of warping the truth and bald faced lies speaks for itself. I will not believe anything he or his organization says.

Paul Watson has no affiliation with Greenpeace. He joined Greenpeace in 1971 and was booted him out 1977.

Many of Paul Watson's and Sea Shepherd's actions have sometimes been wrongly attributed to Greenpeace. Greenpeace is for non-violent change. Watson / Sea Sheperd are for violent action.. and as much untruth as they can fabricate. Watson claims to have sank 10 ships.

Link below is a conservative report of Paul Watson:
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/about/history/paul-watson

JoK
8th January 2010, 14:32
Watson works by overwhelming reason by emotion.
He baldfaced lies to awaken emotion in good hearted people to save whatever species Watson thinks he can wring the most money out of.

That is why you can never discuss his piracy because good people cannot seperate his horrific actions from his self-proclaimed mission. Good people cannot understand his perfidy, because their minds do not operate that way. They genuinely want to save the whales and seals ( no matter that the seals are breeding like rats)
This is why he gets away with things that all reasonable people should be horrified at. People admire his "rage" and his "desire" to save the whales and do not see what else is going on because they are not professional sea-going people or choose to overlook it, because they cannot see how someone so concerned, "so good" can be so violent.
umm, did I just descibe sociopath??

Of course, as always, this is IMHO

Billieboy
8th January 2010, 14:44
For what it's worth, It would in my opinion be better for all the fishing ships(the ocean going ones are NOT boats), to occupy themselves with fishing up all the plastic rubbish that's floating around, the sea shepherd and Green peace could act as tally clerks, the out of work Bulkers and SD14s could collect it for recycling. The Japanese could pay the costs which would entitle them to catch one ton of whale for every 1000M3 of plastic(compressed to international standards).

JoK
8th January 2010, 15:03
good idea, no excellent idea

Lancastrian
8th January 2010, 19:44
Lancastrian -with due respect neither I or you were there when this happend but unlike you it would appear I am prepared to wait until all the facts are known before casting judgment -Teb

They are already condemned by their track record. There are no independent witnesses so how is your enquiry going to resolve the matter? Stop sitting on the fence and trying to defend the indefensible.

John Briggs
9th January 2010, 04:07
This is a very interesting thread and I would like to make a few points.
1. Whaling - I am opposed to whaling as I can see no necessity for it and I consider it to be a cruel and unnecessary activity.
2. Sea Shephard, Paul Watson - I consider this group to be dangerous extremists who have no consideration for safety of life at sea and intentionally put themselves and other innocent parties in danger.
3. The legality of whaling - Like it or not, the Japanese are doing nothing illegal. The basis upon which they grant themselves whaling permits is ethically questionable and appears to stretch the truth somewhat, but they are doing nothing illegal.
4. The sinking of Ady Gil - This was a collision at sea (not a ramming) and will be investigated by the flag States involved, New Zealand and Japan as is lawful and appropriate. It is a very bad practice to make assumptions as to blame from the comfort of an armchair and without all the facts. I am confident that the truth will eventually come out but in the meantime I would make the comment that if a group proceed to a sea area with the declared intention of harassing and interferring with the safe navigation of another group by all means necessary then an accident is very likely.

Lancastrian
9th January 2010, 10:35
Yes, but we dont need to wait for this investigation to see the video evidence that the AG's engines were turning ahead and that they are therefore already lying. If Japan declines to co-operate, (as I would if I were them), the enquiry will probalby not prove anything. This forum is not a court of law and we may make whatever assumptions we wish.

teb
9th January 2010, 10:55
Yes, but we dont need to wait for this investigation to see the video evidence that the AG's engines were turning ahead and that they are therefore already lying. If Japan declines to co-operate, (as I would if I were them), the enquiry will probalby not prove anything. This forum is not a court of law and we may make whatever assumptions we wish.

Might I suggest you look at post 34- I/we look forward to your comments then!!

Cisco
9th January 2010, 11:09
Might I suggest you look at post 34- I/we look forward to your comments then!!

Been there - looked at that ... that is not what I saw..what is the title of this thread again....oh...claim and counter claim.... oh OK....

AncientBrit
9th January 2010, 12:10
Go back to the Japanese video and forget about anything else, just look astern of the Catcher at her wake track. At the time the AG ran herself under the catchers bows, the catcher was already well into a port turn away fron the AG. You can manipulate angles of video shots forever, but theres no denying that wake line.

Lancastrian
9th January 2010, 12:24
Might I suggest you look at post 34- I/we look forward to your comments then!!

Post 34 is codswallop. Anyone who cannot distinguish between the wake of a drifting boat and the wash from twin propellers has been ashore too long!

Mike S
9th January 2010, 12:52
Codswallop my friend........!?

Codswallop. For the benefit of those of you not familiar with the Lancashire dialect means rubbish!

So be it.........I guess 30 years as a tug master and over 43 years at sea and a Masters FG mean nothing.

I bow to your self opinionated opinion on every thing nautical.

However please explain to your audience as they sit here with baited breath hanging on our every word, just what the whaler was doing there as the giving way vessel in the first place.

Rules 15 and 16 Colregs apply. Why did he turn to port late (which he did after a small stbd swing to hit) when he should have turned to Starboard long before to avoid a close quarter situation?

Your expert and erudite explanation is awaited my friend. Please try and avoid your version of codswallop if you can.

AncientBrit
9th January 2010, 14:18
"Rules 15 and 16 Colregs apply. Why did he turn to port late (which he did after a small stbd swing to hit) when he should have turned to Starboard long before to avoid a close quarter situation?"

So often one spends so much time perfecting the art of walking on water that one misses something.
The reason he never turned to Starboard, which should be obvious to one of your experience, was because the deliquent morons in the fibre glass toy were trailing a rope to foul his screw.
I was led to believe that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit and takes one and ones dignity down with it.

reefrat
9th January 2010, 14:42
Well I also thought that the little boat had its engines at least half ahead before impact. If as reported there were attempts to foul the guard ship's propellor, then any helm alterations to avoid this could have, and in this case did have, unpleasant results.

I am opposed to whaling as a waste of resources, and at one time gave lectures on marine life in general and cetacea in particular on the reef, lectures received by rapt audiences,,however in the interests of fair balance, I also mentioned that a large humpback was worth more than $100,000 on the floor of the Tokyo fish market

This info rather changed the conservationist attitude of some of the people.

I am sad to see some members of the forum getting a bit dewy eyed about the poor bloody whales, and getting a bit personal.

The nautical nincompoop, Wilson couldn't even ram a stand-on vessel last year without missing entirely the Yokohama fender that he was aiming for and thus bending his own staunchions.

His behaviour, seeking the moral high ground for his actions, the maratime equivalent crossing the median strip and deliberately driving into oncoming traffic is contemptible.

Dark, and not so dark mutterings about his finances should be checked out

JoK
9th January 2010, 15:09
When you consider they are dragging a rope, then look at the video with that in mind, their actions make more sense. Well, relatively make sense.
Sit there, and wait for the ship prop to catch it up... wait for it, wait for it, holy crap we waited too long, go fast, go fast, turn, turn....oh crap now we've done it...Paul's going to be pi$$ed, we survived!!

roddy
9th January 2010, 15:45
All this is reminiscent of the Cod Wars, where there were some very dubious interpretations of the colregs by both sides, and not really in line with my understanding as explained to Capt Distan of the DTI, some months previously. However we were moderated by our respective governments, and I got the impression Joe Public never really knew what was being done in defence of the humble fish supper.

This guy Watson is a loose cannon and needs to be stopped before he kills someone. Leave it to the worlds leaders to sort out, if you don't like the result, then tough, there are lots of things I don't agree with, but I am not prepared to break the law in support of my moral viewpoint. (can you use the word moral in any discussion about Watson?)

non descript
9th January 2010, 16:06
Gentlemen, and Ladies, as this thread is a worthwhile one, and a valuable forum that folk may wish to use to express their views, may we make one point please, and it is better said before, rather than after it has happened…

The Site Owner has made this simple rule:

Remember: treat others as you would expect to be treated yourself.
Please do not post messages containing personal attacks. We encourage healthy debate but not slanging matches. There is a difference between disagreeing with an opinion and a personal attack, so please think before you post. So 'play the post, not the poster'.
We will remove posts that are abusive, disruptive, or out of context.
We have members from all around the world so please be sensitive to, and respectful of, the opinions, religions, traditions and cultures of others. Avoid racial, religious and political comments. This site is not a corner of a pub with a few mates, you cannot say whatever you want to, it is an international and very public forum.

Given that bit of wise guidance, it would be reasonable to use this moment to gently remind all Members that they are not only entitled, but very welcome to put up views supporting whales, supporting whale catchers, supporting whale catcher catchers, and of course supporting tree huggers, and anti-tree huggers, not to mention allegedly misguided supporters of non-charitable organizations… but the one thing we ask, is that you do not launch, a personal attack on another Member writing on the thread, for there is a difference between disagreeing with an opinion and a personal attack…

Hopefully it did not go unnoticed that when the threads were merged, the title was edited to show a middle line, and neither side was supported to the detriment of the other.
(Thumb)
Mark

RayJordandpo
9th January 2010, 16:15
All this is reminiscent of the Cod Wars, where there were some very dubious interpretations of the colregs by both sides, and not really in line with my understanding as explained to Capt Distan of the DTI, some months previously. However we were moderated by our respective governments, and I got the impression Joe Public never really knew what was being done in defence of the humble fish supper.

This guy Watson is a loose cannon and needs to be stopped before he kills someone. Leave it to the worlds leaders to sort out, if you don't like the result, then tough, there are lots of things I don't agree with, but I am not prepared to break the law in support of my moral viewpoint. (can you use the word moral in any discussion about Watson?)

Nice one Roddy,
Agree with you 100%

JoK
9th January 2010, 16:46
.

Link below is a conservative report of Paul Watson:
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/about/history/paul-watson

excellent article

Now back to the "Raiders of the Lost Ark"

non descript
9th January 2010, 17:22
I'm not getting into the pro/anti-whale debate. This thread is about altercation between Ady Gil and Shonan Maru. ... Paul Watson has no affiliation with Greenpeace. He joined Greenpeace in 1971 and was booted him out 1977.
...
Link below is a conservative report of Paul Watson:
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/about/history/paul-watson

What a very well written article (Thumb)… whilst it is maybe unwise to take any quote out of context, I have to confess I did like:

He (Paul Watson ) was expelled from the leadership of Greenpeace in 1977 by a vote of 11 to one (only Watson himself voted against it)….

On that basis, I would have been a bit amused if the vote had been unanimous…. (Jester) - although given Mr Watson’s ability to conveniently mix up fact with fiction, and seemingly use emotion as a substitute for extortion, anything is maybe possible.
(EEK)
Mark

Stewart J.
9th January 2010, 17:49
Originally Posted by doyll View Post
.

Link below is a conservative report of Paul Watson:

Here (http://www.greenpeace.org/international/letter-to-paul-watson)

What an excellent article, thanks for the link

Stewart

AncientBrit
9th January 2010, 19:28
Greenpeace, Sea Shepherd, Sierra Club, Earthwatch etc, ad infinitum, in the final analysis its all about money, your money and how much they can persuade you to part with, how much the hierachy of said organisation will take to maintain their chosen life-style and how they can best use what remains of that money to ensure your continued financial support.
Once you subtract those expenses, plus the many lawyers fees that hover in the background of all these societies, very little actual money gets spent on what it was donated for. Most of the grunt work is done by volunteers, the student or the older idealists who, whilst going to court for civil dosobediences of one sort or another, fail to ask why the leaders of said organisation arent in court, charged along-side them.
Dont send money and then sit back feeling "rosey" about your environmental activities. Get out and join a local or national club that actually does something good, such as clean up contaminated rivers and lakes or plants young seedling trees in nature ravaged areas.
Just never forget, when you are dealing with these large international organisations, it really is all about your money and how much of it they can get their hands on.

Lancastrian
9th January 2010, 20:19
Codswallop my friend........!?
Codswallop. For the benefit of those of you not familiar with the Lancashire dialect means rubbish!
The OED does not give Lancashire the privilege of this etymology but you could be right. We are renowned for plain speaking!
Rules 15 and 16 Colregs apply. Why did he turn to port late (which he did after a small stbd swing to hit) when he should have turned to Starboard long before to avoid a close quarter situation?
Your expert and erudite explanation is awaited my friend.

What are you on about now? I made no mention of the Collregs, only the obvious forward movements of AG. However as you started it, Rule 17 would also seem to apply. (If you have a collision, you are in the wrong).
In one of the video clips it seems that some minutes prior to the collision, AG had made a close pass under the bows of NM crossing from port to starboard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMmpGm5Z1ik&feature=related
Unfortunately the Rules were not drafted to deal with people who are determined to have a collision.
This incident might have been prevented entirely if Antipodean Governments had not given the protection of their flags and the resources of their harbours to a criminal organisation. Canada has set a good example.

JoK
9th January 2010, 21:07
Gee, isn't that a cable they are dragging and a net they are unfurling. It is really hard to feel sorry for anyone that dumb, to pull those kinds of stunts in those remote areas.

I do love the laser effects in this video!! Maybe these are the guys practising on planes landing in Toronto airport.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6MymqeXhl0&feature=fvw


You know, for "wave piercing", the AG sure bounces ontop of the waves. I wonder if it has trim tabs. Did anyone notice when they were taking all those pictures of it?

deepseatiger
9th January 2010, 22:21
The simple answer to the question is because little old ladies and others with money to donate to Paul Watsons irresponsible and delinquent life style dont go all dewy eyed over fish. Canada ceased clubbing baby seals long ago but Watson and his organization still use the image to gather donations from well meaning donors. Unfortunately Watson realised long ago that the truth fades into the background when compared to the mammamorial magnificence of Pamela Anderson that other spokes-person for animal rights from Vancouver Island. If her IQ matched her chest size she would realise that she is being scammed by Watson, just like everyone else.

Can you enlighten us all as to when canada stopped clubbing baby seals to death, as all searches on the net say you still do it, if it is true canada has stopped then I will allow my wife to purchase canadian fish products again.

AncientBrit
9th January 2010, 23:18
It is my understanding that some years back they ceased the killing of baby seals, mainly because of an outcry from the Canadian public over the image of those wee white bundles of fur being slaughtered. This image is still fostered by Sea Shepherd and the likes because it is good for the dollars.
However, the annual seal hunt still takes place on the ice off the east coast, but only mature seals are culled and the meat used in homes in the maritimes and the skins used for manufacturing products.
As I say, this is my understanding of the situation, maybe some of our members from the east coast can fill in the details. In the news the other day was an article about our fisheries minister saying that Canada should do a better job explaining our sealing policy to Europe to negate the false image portrayed by Watson and co.
I must admit to feeling it is passing ironic that it was Europe, whose fishermen in the past century scraped the bottom of out east coast clan of cod, and now when we are trying to cull the seals who are eating what few are left, those same Europeans are boycotting our fish products.

John Dryden
9th January 2010, 23:56
In this saga of claim and counter-claim,my first thought when I saw a photo of the Ady Gil was it was a 1.5 million boys toy and probably was just for show.Fortunately no lives were lost but is was close to being a disaster.
I also think that when the whaler turned the hoses on Ady Gil visibilty would have been zero so whoever was playing captain probably just heard the crunch.

JoK
10th January 2010, 00:26
Can you enlighten us all as to when canada stopped clubbing baby seals to death, as all searches on the net say you still do it, if it is true canada has stopped then I will allow my wife to purchase canadian fish products again.


That stopped over 20 years ago. However the image of a weeping whiteback seal is a huge money maker for sea shepard and company.What is done now is a seal cull, because the buggers are everywhere and Sable Island is full of them.
What the media potrays in an utter load of BS regarding the hunt. It is the same as culling the white deer population.
Oh, and by the way, every spring, there is a warning that goes out in the east coast newspapers to stay away from those little darlings. They are rather vicious and Mom will desert them if they are approached. So when you see that picture of Bardot cuddling that baby seal, she probably caused it to be abandoned by the mom and it starved to death.

John Briggs
10th January 2010, 01:12
As we are getting off the subject of this thread by talking about whale and seal hunting I have started a new thread (in stormy weather) where everyone can justify their support or opposition to the practice of whale and seal hunting.

Mike S
10th January 2010, 08:59
In respect of the wishes of our hard working moderators I will refrain from any further comment on this thread. It is quite obvious that some think that they can say what they like and refer to other peoples posts in an insulting manner with impunity.
That is not my concern, it is matter for those moderating this forum.
My closing comment on this is in reference to "Antipodean Governments"
These governments are democratic governments elected under the Westminster system that represent the views of the majority of their people. It therefor follows that if they provide safe haven for Sea Shepherd and their crews they are doing so because the majority of their people want it so.
Please remember that when making such remarks.
If you do not like it I am sorry however it a long time now since the opinions of people in UK and others dictate to us in the "Great Southlands"
For the record..........I do not agree for one minute with the methods and antics of Watson and his motley crew. It could well be said that Ady Gil was a sacrificial lamb. Who knows..........
Scathing remarks about the number of Toyotas in RSL car parks are another unanswered low shot. I leave that for the rest of you to judge.
Maybe just maybe if the Japanese, instead of killing whales in name of "science" did like the Norwegians and said it was for food and oil we might be more inclined to believe them.
My feelings on this are obvious. Unlike some I do not sit on the fence on this one and never will. I leave others to judge my remarks however rest assured no matter what you may say on this thread from now on I will not be replying.
Matter closed.

doyll
10th January 2010, 11:16
Other times Sea Shepherd has rammed Japanese whaling ships:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFGmR99-D0k&NR=1
and another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDsZcLVXyn8&NR=1
illegal boarding:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSowFCWOPt8&feature=related

Many more on YouTube showing Sea Shepherd endangering lives and lying

teb
10th January 2010, 15:18
What are you on about now? I made no mention of the Collregs, only the obvious forward movements of AG. However as you started it, Rule 17 would also seem to apply. (If you have a collision, you are in the wrong).
In one of the video clips it seems that some minutes prior to the collision, AG had made a close pass under the bows of NM crossing from port to starboard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMmpGm5Z1ik&feature=related
Unfortunately the Rules were not drafted to deal with people who are determined to have a collision.
This incident might have been prevented entirely if Antipodean Governments had not given the protection of their flags and the resources of their harbours to a criminal organisation. Canada has set a good example.

What criminal organisation are youtalking about? The japanese whalers who kill in the name of science then sell their kill in the fish markets for profit big profit ?????

Lancastrian
10th January 2010, 15:21
What criminal organisation are youtalking about? The japanese whalers who kill in the name of science then sell their kill in the fish markets for profit big profit ?????

As previously mentioned by JB, the Japanese activities are lawful. Those of Sea Shepherd are not.

JoK
10th January 2010, 15:52
You would have to be completely obtuse not to get it teb. If any shipping company instructed their Captains to ram other ships and try to disable them, they would be punished, yet sea shepard does all of this with impunity.
Canada threw the captain and mate out of the country, siezed the ship, auctioned it off and gave fines.
Time for the rest of the nations to step up to the plate and deal with the bully boys. And I am not referring to the Japanese or Maritimers. More outraged countries should cut their lines and throw them out of port.
BTW, Watson has been thrown out of more then one outport, they got his number.

wbeedie
10th January 2010, 18:06
http://news.stv.tv/environment/149051-activists-urge-legal-action-against-japan-whalers/

John Cassels
10th January 2010, 18:59
Looked at the link for non UK residents as you indicate but could not find
any words like Paul Watson or Ady Gil . So what has your post got to do
with the current thread ?.

wbeedie
10th January 2010, 19:15
Thats my signature ,,STV link is the one to check
http://news.stv.tv/environment/149051-activists-urge-legal-action-against-japan-whalers/
plenty about PW and AG for this thread

JoK
10th January 2010, 19:19
Got to give sea shepard credit for being ballsy, if not truthful!! Attack the Japanese for protecting their ships from being disabled.

Cisco
10th January 2010, 19:21
I don't know if it was file footage or not but yesterday I saw a little clip of Watson mouthing off about how any of his volunteers should be willing to die to save the life of a whale.. the man is a rabid nutter.. I swear he was almost frothing at the mouth.

Re Toyotas in RSL carparks.... some would recall that was a catchcry of the RSL in the late 60s when Japanese cars were first appearing in any numbers on Australian roads and memories would have been rather fresh for many... I think that the country has moved on from then as have most of the old diggers.. RSL carparks certainly have.

Speaking of the 60s ( late 68 in fact) does anyone recall the Russian factory ship Van Gogh hoovering up prawns in the middle of the Gulf of Carpentaria? Huge outcry, photos on the front page of national dailies, Oz prawn fisherman taking potshots at it with .303s etc. All went quiet after it was pointed out that they weren't Oz waters as they were beyond the three mile limit ( pre EEZ days ). Much the same as today.. its gone awfully quiet
re 'our waters , our whales'... maybe the journos have been given a govment briefing about what is and isn't 'ours'.

wbeedie
10th January 2010, 19:50
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
Poacher turned Gamekeeper
The Bob Barker is a ship owned by the Sea Shepherd animal rights group, named for and purchased by funds donated by Bob Barker.[6] It first started operating for the group in late 2009 / early 2010 in their campaign against whaling by Japanese fisheries.

The vessel was built in Norway in 1950 as the whale chaser Pol XIV,[4] but was deleted from the Norwegian ship registry in 2004,[3] and sold to a Cook Islands registry concern. She is classed as a 'long range fast ice' vessel of 1,200 tons.[5] It also carries a helicopter named after Nancy Burnet of United Activists for Animal Rights. After having been purchased and refitted with the donated money in Africa, the ship departed Mauritius on 18 December 2009 to join up with the Steve Irwin and Ady Gil, the two other Sea Shepherd vessels.[7] One of its first actions was take video footage of the collision between the Ady Gil and a Japanese whaling support vessel, after which it took aboard the crew from the stricken Sea Shepherd craft.
http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=46145

spongebob
10th January 2010, 20:23
Cisco, re that surname Watson, pity it is the same as our little battler Jessica now approaching Cape Horn in her Yacht.

Re the "Toyota" bogey, in the mid 60's the company bought me a Toyata Corona which was one from the first batch of 12 imported into NZ.
At that time cars were hard to get due to import restrictions and a Morris Oxford or a Hillman Minx meant a 12 month wait. A Holden was out of the question, my status was not that high.
Where ever I parked my little shovel nosed car became the centre of attention as most people picked it to pieces and I was more than once actually abused by the old soldier regime for daring to drive it. Such was the residual rancor and hatred of the times.
That car turned out to be the acme of mechanical reliability and endurance and today's Japanese product continues to speak for itself

non descript
10th January 2010, 20:48
Marginally interesting to see that the original title in the Sunday Times: ‘Mown down by Japanese whalers’ – was in the later editions, re-written to a less aggressive and marginally more accurate: “Ady Gil downed by Japanese whalers” (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article6982236.ece) .. so there may be some sense of honesty in Fleet Street after all, even if the rest of the article reads about as accurately as Bill Clinton’s night diary….

A) Watson, who was on the sister ship “like a sort of admiral, overseeing operations”, told of the moment of the collision: “We were doing our usual thing of throwing stink bombs, basically rotten butter, onto their decks. A Japanese ship put a fire hose on the Ady Gil, then turned and deliberately rammed her, cutting her in half in a deliberate act of violence.”

As for the text: ‘A Japanese ship put a fire hose on the Ady Gil, then turned and deliberately rammed her, cutting her in half in a deliberate act of violence’… you must forgive me of the words poetic licence come to mind... (EEK)

++

B) The crew of the damaged trimaran returned to it after the incident and spent several hours transferring fuel and oil to their sister ships to prevent any possible pollution of the ocean. They then tried to tow the remains of the Ady Gil back to shore, but it sank at about 3.30am on Friday.
Umm… Well if Mr Watson says so, it must of course be the truth (Jester), but to find they had the means to pump out the fuel shows what a highly skilful lot they are on board these Sea Shepherd boats.. (EEK)


C) According to Watson, Inwood spent £11,500 “on his credit card” to provide spy planes to track Sea Shepherd vessels and help the whalers to avoid their attempts at sabotage. But spy planes alone are not enough to beat the guile of the anti-whalers. The Bob Barker flew a Norwegian flag — emblem of one of the few countries to support Japan’s stance on whaling — to fool the protection vessels until it got close, before hoisting the Jolly Roger pirate flag..
Without being unduly pedantic…
(i) … Inwood spent £11,500 “on his credit card” to provide spy planes… Sorry, but is this a tad misguided, should he have written a cheque rather than used plastic?

(ii)… The Bob Barker flew a Norwegian flag — emblem of one of the few countries to support Japan’s stance on whaling — to fool the protection vessels until it got close, before hoisting the Jolly Roger pirate flag.. Umm. Considering that the the Bob Barker appears to be registered as a Cook Islands vessel, the flying of a false flag seems a tad unwise?

Oh well, as long as it sells the paper and get folk to part with their money to a lunatic, I guess the fact that the truth has been side-stepped is not so important... (Jester)

JoK
11th January 2010, 04:58
Interesting that. If they were burning B100 like the engines can, why would they worry?
Could it be because,<GASP> they were burning straight MDO??

Billieboy
11th January 2010, 06:16
Interesting that. If they were burning B100 like the engines can, why would they worry?
Could it be because,<GASP> they were burning straight MDO??

I'm surprised that a, "Green", protester, would use anything other than a bio-degradeable Veggie oil, as a fuel for it's major interceptor's engines. Perhaps it was too expensive to lose!

teb
11th January 2010, 08:13
iAs previously mentioned by JB, the Japanese activities are lawful. Those of Sea Shepherd are not.

At which stage does a legal act become an illegal act ? Under present rules they are allowed to kill for scientific purposes(ignore that we all or most of us accept this is a charade ) but at what stage does it become legal to sell the kill on a commercial basis ? can you tell me as i would dearly like to know!!!!

GWB
11th January 2010, 08:16
What gives Watson the right to dictate to others his point off view, put others life in danger, or to shoot lasers at crew members or fire stun type guns with foul smelling junk. If he wants stop whaling do it thro the courts $1.5 mil should get him a good lawyer, but as Jok says there is no publicity and a style off life living off others silly enough to give them money.

Lancastrian
11th January 2010, 12:04
Granted the Commission would appear less than perfect, but this dispute can only be resolved by civilised negotiations - not piracy on the high seas.

Donald McGhee
12th January 2010, 21:30
The collision, whether deliberate or otherwise was a culmination of events that could be summarised as an accident waiting to happen.
The bringing together of this high speed, maliciously intentioned fizz boat with all it's gizmos, and a "real" seagoing ship such as allegedly rammed it was something most of us with any seagoing experience would have recognised as being overdue, especially when fuelled by the directives of Mr Watson.

I have no strong views on whaling apart from the fact that in the year 2010 there is little need to kill them for research purposes. How much research do you need on an animal that has been available for these purposes for centuries?
This is just the start and I believe that the world needs to watch Mr Watson, not the Japanese for the next move in this stupidly reckless Antarctic chess game. Don't expect any input from the Govts of NZ and Aus. They will only posture and mouth off, baring thier toothless gums!
Barring that Watson and his vessels from our ports would be a start though.

Basil
6th April 2010, 10:07
Toyotas in RSL car parks
There were plenty in NSW RSL parks last month; seemed to be the marque of choice in most places.

Basil
7th October 2010, 13:13
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11490958
An estranged former member of direct action anti-whaling group Sea Shepherd alleges it ordered its own boat to be scuttled to win public sympathy.

Peter Bethune was captain of the hi-tech Ady Gil when its bow was shorn off in a collision with a Japanese whaler it was shadowing in January.

It sank two days later, but Mr Bethune now alleges he was ordered to scuttle it by Sea Shepherd head Paul Watson.

teb
8th October 2010, 11:55
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11490958

I for one do not believe -- - Bethune--- He was in command of his vessel -if he scuttled same at Watsons comand putting his crew at risk he has a lot to answer for!!!! Glad I never sailed with him!!!!

wbeedie
22nd October 2010, 12:00
Just watched the last few episodes of Whale Wars and at no time did Watson order it scuttled it shows that when asked about the sinking vessel that Bethune was given the choice which HE said I dont want to tow and watch it sink so maybe Watson doesnt have a case to answer but been some good viewing so far and as for my past remarks on this thread well I admit i WAS WRONG the whalers definately run her down