Port au Prince

duquesa
14th January 2010, 13:56
My son who is involved with vesel operation in the Caribbean & S.America, has just shown me a folder of amazing pictures which at this moment I cannot post due to copyright. If I can overcome this (he is posting them everywhere and says it is fine but I don't have the pic takers say so) I will put them up.
Essentially, one of his vessels was working cargo - containers using ships crane - when the quake happened. His agent there took the shots with his camera and show the entire container quay slowly disappearing. Boxes are floating off, adjacent cranes collapse, the small feeder ship astern getting to h**l out of the picture fast. The final one of the series shows the quayside totally submerged and the container vessel's mooring lines, still attached stretching down into the water. Hairy situation! What the Master finally did, I'm not sure yet but hope to find out. Cut the ropes and full astern seemed like a good plan to me.

ssr481
14th January 2010, 14:30
Hope your son is safe.. friends of mine may be activated to go down there for relief work... very nasty from what I've seen on TV..

benjidog
14th January 2010, 18:45
Duquesa,

If these photos are posted on another site there would be no objection to your putting a link in a post on this thread. Alternatively you can email them to anyone who contacts you about them who is interested. In both cases it would not prejudice SN.

duquesa
14th January 2010, 22:10
SSR841, thanks for that but son is tucked up safely here with the family in Tampa from where he operates. I think the quay stabilized just under the water level as in the pics the bollards can be seen with the vessel's ropes on. Sure brought to an end all work for the day. Still hoping the pics can be loaded up.

stan mayes
15th January 2010, 00:33
During 1949 I was in Haiti on two occasions. In San Roberto we discharged fuel oil at an installation near Port au Prince.
I have memories of a very impoverished people but very happy and sociable.
I am so sorry that such a disaster can befall such kind and gentle people - people who had nothing but their will to survive..
Stan

billyboy
15th January 2010, 00:53
We just had a Quake here in the Philippines. Left me feeling quite dizzy it has. First i realized was when the tea came out of mug onto the desk.
Terrible the devastation to those folks in Haitti. I really feel for them all.

Oz.
15th January 2010, 03:32
I bet thats not the first time the earth moved for you Billy.
Sorry, my heart goes out to the people in Haiti.I wish them all well.

Keltic Star
15th January 2010, 04:22
Son in law just sailed from Halifax this afternoon bound for Port Au Prince on frigate H.M.C.S. "Halifax" accompanied by destroyer H.M.C.S. "Athabaskan" loaded with relief supplies and crew advised they will be working ashore on rescue operations on arrival.

John N MacDonald
15th January 2010, 12:41
And people here complain about the snow and ice!

duquesa
15th January 2010, 14:35
The jetty has in fact sunk with some ships still moored. Article in today's maritime news - www.fairplay.co.uk

NoMoss
15th January 2010, 14:56
Like everyone so far my heart goes out to the very poor people of Haiti. I felt that the coverage on the BBC News is beginning to make the survivors out to be rather pathetic and helpless in as much as they are becoming angry that no one is helping them and gives the impression they are just sitting around waiting for handouts. I doubt if this is the case. However, it may be that the aid agencies staff are becoming frustrated that they cannot do as much as they would like because of lack of communications and supplies. Many of the 'on the spot' staff have themselves been killed or injured or have lost track of their own families.
I thought the Dominican Republic was an unoffical colony of the US and that this would provide a useful route for aid.

doyll
15th January 2010, 16:05
USS Carl Vinson Arrives in Haiti:

"When tasked to support humanitarian assistance and disaster relief operations in Haiti, we immediately headed to Mayport, Fla., at more than 30 knots and loaded 19 helicopters, personnel and support equipment from five different East Coast Navy squadrons in less than eight hours," said Navy Capt. Bruce H. Lindsey, Carl Vinson commanding officer. "There is no other platform that can do all of that so quickly."

http://www.infozine.com/news/stories/op/storiesView/sid/39508/

doyll
15th January 2010, 16:17
The thousands the news are showing are in city where there is no food or water available and little or nothing they can do to get food and water. Many roads/streets are cluttered or completely blocked by rubble from quake. This is limiting what little distribution can be done with the limited resources on hand. I have seen no reports from any other areas of country.

Aircraft must have enough fuel to fly out to other place to refuel as no fuel is available, airport is full up, and additional aircraft with more staff, equipment and supplies are being given landing slots for middle of next week.

sidsal
15th January 2010, 21:31
Can I put a plug in for Rotary's efforts here. There is a scheme in Rotary where Disaster Boxes, costing £500 each are sent to disaster areas such as earthquakes, Tsunamis etc. 500 boxes are en route to Port Au Prince and another 1000 are ready in Miami to follow on. Virgin help a lot through transporting these boxes which contain a tent, cooking utensils, water purifying tablets and all sorts of gear to help victims. There are several Rotarians in Haiti already liasing with local Rotarians to get the boxes where needed. Our local Rotary Club ( Bramhall and Wooodford) carried out a collection at the local garden centre over Christmas for these boxes and we are asking if we can make a collection this weekend too. Individuals are also contributing to buy more boxes.
These boxes wqere the idea of a Rotarian from Helston in Cornwall who had experience of search and rescue.
One feels so helpless for these poor folk who have so little anyway.

tmac19
15th January 2010, 22:06
Royal Mail Line Docked There In The 60 S I Was On The Essequibo 1961 Spent 6 Days . Very Poor Then. This Half Of The Island Is French. Thay Will Nead Allour Help.

DURANGO
15th January 2010, 22:28
Royal Mail Line Docked There In The 60 S I Was On The Essequibo 1961 Spent 6 Days . Very Poor Then. This Half Of The Island Is French. Thay Will Nead Allour Help. I was also in the Essequibo in 1961 we spent 10 days in Cassablanca due to taking water in number one hold which turned our cargo of sugar into mollasis

John Rogers
15th January 2010, 22:56
Like everyone so far my heart goes out to the very poor people of Haiti. I felt that the coverage on the BBC News is beginning to make the survivors out to be rather pathetic and helpless in as much as they are becoming angry that no one is helping them and gives the impression they are just sitting around waiting for handouts. I doubt if this is the case. However, it may be that the aid agencies staff are becoming frustrated that they cannot do as much as they would like because of lack of communications and supplies. Many of the 'on the spot' staff have themselves been killed or injured or have lost track of their own families.
I thought the Dominican Republic was an unoffical colony of the US and that this would provide a useful route for aid.

Ted,
The U.S. has been pouring Billions of dollars into that country over the years but due to the graft its all gone to select corrupt officials to include the guy in the big palace.

Check out this site.

http://www.usaid.gov/locations/latin_america_caribbean/country/haiti/

MARINEJOCKY
15th January 2010, 23:00
the average salary per year for a Haitian is between $400 and $560 depending who you believe but who ever is correct it is peanuts.

Because of the large number of Haitians living here in South Florida we have back to back TV coverage and it is heart breaking.

I have my favoured charities that I give to every year but after watching the pictures today I just had to give what I could. Then I was shamed to hear that over 7 million US Dollars has been collected by the Red Cross here mostly from the youngsters over the last couple of days by them simply texting to a number and between 5 and 10 dollars is sent to the charity immediately and it is added to your cell phone bill.

I felt bad for what I had donated so sent some more but it was good to see the number of young people helping.

I also hear that the communications are poor so people are turning to twitter, facebook etc.

The big bad americans are already sending 100 million in aid, aircraft carriers and helicopter carrying ships are heading there. The big radar planes are flying overhead directing air transport, US navy hospital ships are heading there as are many coast guard ships and alot of planes have already been and back. Florida hospitals are treating victims.

Not much different from any other disaster around the world that the Americans respond too, its a shame they get vilified so often on other matters.

Yes there are many other countries helping and everyone should be applauded but next time you think about posting a negative post about our most important allies, please stop & think

benjidog
15th January 2010, 23:11
Duquesa,

I have checked out those photos you showed me and as you have permission to post them please go ahead and do so on this thread rather than in the Gallery.

If you are not sure how to do this, press the Go Advanced button when you do your posts and you will find an option to add photos. You will probably only be able to add two or three to each post depending on size of images.

John Rogers
15th January 2010, 23:42
the average salary per year for a Haitian is between $400 and $560 depending who you believe but who ever is correct it is peanuts.

Because of the large number of Haitians living here in South Florida we have back to back TV coverage and it is heart breaking.

I have my favoured charities that I give to every year but after watching the pictures today I just had to give what I could. Then I was shamed to hear that over 7 million US Dollars has been collected by the Red Cross here mostly from the youngsters over the last couple of days by them simply texting to a number and between 5 and 10 dollars is sent to the charity immediately and it is added to your cell phone bill.

I felt bad for what I had donated so sent some more but it was good to see the number of young people helping.

I also hear that the communications are poor so people are turning to twitter, facebook etc.

The big bad americans are already sending 100 million in aid, aircraft carriers and helicopter carrying ships are heading there. The big radar planes are flying overhead directing air transport, US navy hospital ships are heading there as are many coast guard ships and alot of planes have already been and back. Florida hospitals are treating victims.

Not much different from any other disaster around the world that the Americans respond too, its a shame they get vilified so often on other matters.

Yes there are many other countries helping and everyone should be applauded but next time you think about posting a negative post about our most important allies, please stop & think

Well put MJ.

Under the leadership of President René Préval, economic growth was 2.5 percent in 2006, but dropped to 1.3 percent in 2008. Many challenges remain, including:

* 54 percent of Haitians live on less than $1/day (UNDP HDR 2007) while illiteracy is estimated at 44 percent;
* Unemployment rate in the formal sector is between 70-80 percent;
* 46 percent of Haitians do not have sustainable access to potable water (UNDP HDR 2007);
* Haiti ranks 154 of 177 countries in the UN's Human Development Index.

Klaatu83
16th January 2010, 02:11
Word is that the U.S. Government is sending the hospital ship USNS Comfort to Port au Prince, which ought to help a great deal to help relieve the medical load. She is normally maintained in a state of Reduced Operating Status, which means she is laid up but can be broken out at any time within five days notice. The 70,000-ton converted supertanker has helicopter landing facilities, which means she can function in disaster areas or unimproved Third-World ports that may not have a deep-draft dock.

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=57558

duquesa
16th January 2010, 03:49
Let us hope that whatever vessels they send can operate without shoreside facilities as there are none. The port has sunk.

kewl dude
16th January 2010, 06:37
San Diego CBS affiliate today, Friday, evening news ran a piece on the carrier Carl Vinson:

http://www.cvn70.navy.mil/

It seems she had literally just left the east coast on a planned Show the Flag tour at several South American ports. Returning from some certifications on the US east coast to her San Diego home port she was routed around South America rather than using the canal.

So she was diverted to a Florida stop, which was accomplished in eight hours, to load eighteen helo's, their crews and equipment, quickly gathered from east coast Navy Reserve units, to ferry this stuff ashore in Haiti.

The vessel has on board survival basics including water for 300,000 people and dried food for 100,000, a portion of which was intended to be donated to needy people during each South American port stops.

They showed the aircraft hanger size warehouse ashore where these 4 ft x 4 ft x 4 ft pallets had been stacked eight high on industrial shelving. They said pallets were used versus containers so they could be stuck wherever space could be found on the Vinson.

Greg Hayden

RNW
16th January 2010, 07:21
John, you have taken the words out of my mouth.
While I am heart broken for the many families who have been affected by this awful catastrophy, I am angry that the people are making road blocks out of human bodies, burning tyres, in anger that aid is not getting through quick enough.!!
This country is in receipt of millions of dollars in aid, payed for by the long suffering tax payers in the US, and most of it is wasted, stolen, and certainly not spent on the people.
To be told that bodies are still laying in the street, with people walking past them, makes me furious, as it would seem that they are waiting for somebody else ( ie the US ) should come along to pick them up. Fix this proplem for us, and if you take too long we won't be pleased, seems to be the opinion on the streets.
This is rubbish. The USA has had dreadful natural disasters, from Katrina to annual twisters, earth quakes, fires, floods, and when have you seen anybody sending ships to help you?
No, we in the west are expected to look after ourseves, but everybody else in the world also thinks the west should look after their problems as well.
The rest of the world must accept that if you have a corrupt system, and you steal western aid, and you then have a disaster, sorry, ask the Devil to help.
American sailors are wanted elswhare

spongebob
16th January 2010, 07:49
This disaster has caused me to remind myself of the long term history of this island community and to find that it has been long and bitter,
Discovered by Christopher Columbus in 1492 it went down hill from then on and if you want to refresh your understanding just Google "Haiti" and read a good account on Wiki or other sites.
This history smacks of badly managed colonisation from the word go to finish up with a huge population of displaced slave descendants who have no hope or future.
It would be hard to imagine that Britain could of done a job as bad as Haiti's development by the Spanish and French.
It is hard to blame the people but it is equally difficult to see any long term hope.

Bob

NoMoss
16th January 2010, 09:27
Ted,
The U.S. has been pouring Billions of dollars into that country over the years but due to the graft its all gone to select corrupt officials to include the guy in the big palace.

Check out this site.

http://www.usaid.gov/locations/latin_america_caribbean/country/haiti/

I was not criticising the US and appreciate that they have given and are now giving collosal aid to Haiti, I just thought it was a more practical way of moving aid through the Dominican Republic.
I am full of praise for the way the US has pulled out all the stops to help. Without being thought cynical it is in the interests of the US to have a stable, democratic state in its own backyard. President Obama has called for a conference on rebuilding Haiti after the aid has been given. Let's hope they can rebuild a less corrupt and democratic system than the old one.

Cisco
16th January 2010, 10:05
Hearing of the wharf disappearing under the sea brings back memories of what happened to Port Royal, Jamaica. Not that I can remember it happening but I can remember reading about it....

Not difficult to imagine a massive breakdown of society in a country which was in such disrepair socially in the first place. Hopefully it will re-emerge in better shape than before

RNW
16th January 2010, 11:14
Bob, there is no hope for these people, they will always be subjected to one disaster after enother.
I for one will not give one cent to a corrupt, satanic loving governmrnt, who doesn't give a toss about it's people.
It's these people who have to change the governement, and with the help of the US, and the rest of us they have to help themselves.
I cry for the children who have died in this disaster, the grief is more than I can imagine, but I do know that without big changes, no amount of money is going to make any difference, so why give?
Is it just me?

John Rogers
16th January 2010, 15:06
I was told that Obama has promised to bring 4,000 Haitians to Florida to work, I think thats a bad move as they can be put to work in their own country cleaning up the mess and start re-building and be paid out of all the aid money thats pouring in. Not only that they will be given aid money,food stamps, and become another burden on the U.S. tax payers. The U.S. put a Brigade of Paratroopers in there yesterday,thats almost 2,000 men,200 of them are combat engineers who will clear the streets, the others are infantry and will be used to guard the supplies at the airport or port,there is no doubt the people will loot and riot in days to come.Its a darn shame that politics has to enter a disaster such as this,and thats all he is doing.

John.

benjidog
16th January 2010, 17:17
Duquesa has asked me to post the photos referred to earlier so a selection are attached:

benjidog
16th January 2010, 17:19
And one more ...

duquesa
16th January 2010, 17:58
Three more from the same set showing the jetty sunk - hope they come up as haven't done this before!
Many thanks for that Brian.

MARINEJOCKY
16th January 2010, 18:07
RNW,

I am glad there are very few with your attitude.

You obviusly have not gone through any type of disaster and have paid little attention to the suffering of the people of Haiti. I for one would prefer that any money I give goes to the people who are suffering but I live in the real world and realize that no matter where you are there are "them & us".

To watch them having to try and dig out the 11 yr old little girl with there bare hands and then to read this morning that after finally getting her out she died a few hours later at a make shift clinic with limited resources made me give more not less like you.

as for having a democratic stable country in our back yard we have one and its called "Cuba" and it is less than 90 miles from us. (*))

John, I too believe it is a bad move to bring any more here besides the injured and hopefully once aid starts to flow the correct decisions will be made.

mrcanoehead
17th January 2010, 16:12
the Comfort set out yesterday am, she'll arive around mid week. She's adeep draft vessel & will have to anchor out. everything coptered in or by their 40 boats. garbage & plastic is the problem they'll be dealing with in short order as many times before being there we had to shut down the Engineroom side & clean main condensers, along with the sea suctions for the aux plant that serves the hospital. Not on her at this time, as had to head home for family matters on the day of the earthquake. We'll see how long they can remain there. Presume a few Ready reseve ships loaded with Construction equipment on the way as well. They''ll have to bring causeways to unlaod there as they are too big for that dockspace that was there, now i hear even thats a no go. the SEABEES will have a tough time of it. Hope those people get the needed help as they are really in bad shape.

Klaatu83
17th January 2010, 18:34
This disaster has caused me to remind myself of the long term history of this island community and to find that it has been long and bitter,
Discovered by Christopher Columbus in 1492 it went down hill from then on and if you want to refresh your understanding just Google "Haiti" and read a good account on Wiki or other sites.
This history smacks of badly managed colonisation from the word go to finish up with a huge population of displaced slave descendants who have no hope or future.
It would be hard to imagine that Britain could of done a job as bad as Haiti's development by the Spanish and French.
It is hard to blame the people but it is equally difficult to see any long term hope.

Bob


Haiti was only the second independent country (after the United States) in the Western Hemisphere. However, unlike the U.S., Haiti instantly became "persona non grata" amongst the community of nations, including the U.S. The reason isn't difficult to comprehend. Haiti was the product of a slave revolt. At that time slavery was still legal in the European colonies, as well as the U.S. All those slave-owners were terrified that what happened in Haiti could happen to them. As a result, unlike other "former colonies", Haiti has had no cultural or financial ties to, nor received any assistance from, the "Mother Country". Under the circumstances, it's small wonder that the history of Haiti has been one of isolation, poverty and political degeneration.

Trader
17th January 2010, 22:26
All I can say is thank God for the USA, they help out all over the world in natural disasters because they can. It gets up my nose when people criticise them.

Thats another Story
17th January 2010, 22:30
Is the port beyond repiar? very big task to get the country up and running again? john.

TonyAllen
17th January 2010, 22:46
Lets face without the USA pouring in aid it would take weeks just to get anything on the ground, maybe its political as well as humaniterian but getting help in there is all that matters, this could be a turning point for them but its a hell of a price to pay to get rid of a currupt regime, truly my heart bleeds for them Tony

A.J.McMahon
18th January 2010, 11:34
All I can say is thank God for the USA, they help out all over the world in natural disasters because they can. It gets up my nose when people criticise them.

Well said Trader, I totally agree with you.

ssr481
18th January 2010, 12:26
The USNS COMFORT left Baltimore on Saturday and will be off Haiti sometime the end of this week. The US Air National Guard, mainly out of Puerto Rico is flying in supplies, as is the USAF, USCG, etc. flying relief troops and supplies out of Homestead AFB in Florida (I even saw a photo of a Japanese C-130 at Homestead). The USS CARL VINSON is off Haiti now, and two Amphibious Ready Groups will be offshore sometime today, including the 22nd MEU from Camp Lejeune .. and the All Americans - 82nd Airborne - are there (some people I know among them)...

My heart goes out to those who are suffering through this and to those who are doing their best to rescue/care for those in need...

Given all that..what other country can respond as quickly and as immensely as the US?? Not many...

mrcanoehead
18th January 2010, 13:48
Have heard the Cuban & Veneuzelan govt's stepping up to the plate as well, true no one will top what the us can do, but thats not the issue here, its get these people medically treated & then not forget them next week, Then the real work begins, some high level talks should be underway for a plan to finnally help them dig out of their dispair. somthing tangable that will lead them to prosperity & self sustainment.

John Rogers
18th January 2010, 15:58
I have been following the story about the plight of Haiti and not much is mentioned about the other half of the Island the Dominican Republic,they have a couple of deep water ports and airfields and much of the aid supplies could be landed there and moved overland across the border. I also read the history of both countries and can see they are as different as day and night, plus a lot of hatred and killing inflicted on the Haitians by the Military of the Dominican Republic Army. It was called the Parsley Killings.

In 1937 Trujillo (who was himself one-quarter Haitian),[45] in an event known as the Parsley Massacre or, in the Dominican Republic, as El Corte (The Cutting),[46] ordered the Army to kill Haitians living on the Dominican side of the border. The Army killed an estimated 17,000 to 35,000 Haitians over six days, from the night of October 2, 1937 through October 8, 1937. To avoid leaving evidence of the Army's involvement, the soldiers used machetes rather than bullets.[31][45][47] The soldiers of Trujillo were said to have interrogated anyone with dark skin, using the shibboleth perejil (parsley) to tell Haitians from Dominicans when necessary; the 'r' of perejil was of difficult pronunciation for Haitians.[46] As a result of the massacre, the Dominican Republic agreed to pay Haiti US$750,000, later reduced to US$525,000.[34][44]

duquesa
18th January 2010, 17:02
Perhaps partly in reply to the question by John Pruden, I am attaching a further four follow on pics from the same source as above.

duquesa
18th January 2010, 17:06
Sorry. Tech hitch and only two will upload as the other two are too big.

benjidog
18th January 2010, 17:42
Here are two more photos fro Duquesa he has asked me to upload.

John Rogers
18th January 2010, 17:53
Just found out from a old army buddy that they are using the airfields in the Dominican Republic,plus this information.
We’re on the third of five of the lumbering birds from New Jersey’s McGuire air base bringing tons of satellite communications equipment and other gear to enable the establishment of command and control operations at the Port-au-Prince airport.

The Air Force and U.S. Army are taking over management of all incoming relief flights and the distribution of aid.

They’ll communicate with the pilots flying in from around the world, direct them where to park, unload the food, water, medicine and supplies, move it to a distribution point and get the planes back in the air to make room for more. In essence, the Air Force says it will restore order to the airfield.

The military will be completely self-sufficient, bringing generators, food, water, tents, cots, even their own forklifts to help unload planes.

They have enough supplies to last 30-45 days but may have to fly in more water and MRE’s (Meals Ready To Eat) since the estimates I’m hearing are our troops will be on the ground in Haiti for months.

Jacktar1
18th January 2010, 18:42
I cannot imagine being faced with such devastation, my prayers and thoughts go out to the people of Haiti.
Just one more comment.......last Friday, RCCL's cruise ship, "Independence of the Seas" called at Labadee as per its usual itinerary and disembarked passengers to the beach resort, just 60 miles from Haiti's devastated earthquake zone, to enjoy their jetski's, parasailing and sip their rum coktails in their hammocks ! One passenger commented that he was disgustated and thoroughly sick and did not go ashore, whilst others just said that they were there to enjoy their vacation !
Another RCCL vessel, the "Navigator of the Seas" is also due there soon.
RCCL however did state that they were carrying some food supplies to Haiti and that all revinue from their call at Labadee would be donated to Haiti.
Would be interested to hear your comments.

John Rogers
18th January 2010, 19:37
The donations will be appreciated, but for goodness sake keep the lookers away from the disaster and that includes the ship,it will be like people looking at a car accident.

John.

spongebob
18th January 2010, 20:54
John , I imagine that the American military with all its might will be very self sufficient in a situation like this and it would need a continuous line of command and diciplines such as they have to get some momentum going.
So many of the tele-news casts suggest that there is an intial lack of coordination in place at the moment what with the prime minister hidden in his bunker and his sister doing his talking for him or is this just media distortion.
One newsreel last night showed overloaded buses trying to get frightened people away from the city and quake area but their progress is limited because the borders to Dom. Republic are closed to them.

Bob

John Rogers
18th January 2010, 21:45
I am being told its a UN action at the moment but most likely all ready changed to a US. They are using a airbase in Arizona linked to an AWAC to control air traffic. Many of the UN aid people were killed when the building came down on them to include US aid people, but as we know the UN has failed in about all the disasters they have been in control. Today I seen a video on TV were they were using bull dozer to bury the dead in mass graves,the dead were not even in bags,some one got a contract to remove the dead from the streets but did not have any dignity on how they were disposed of,not even any identity to remember them by later on,the truck just backed up to the hole and dumped them in the hole.

Cisco
18th January 2010, 22:07
Just one more comment.......last Friday, RCCL's cruise ship, "Independence of the Seas" called at Labadee as per its usual itinerary and disembarked passengers to the beach resort, just 60 miles from Haiti's devastated earthquake zone, ....
Another RCCL vessel, the "Navigator of the Seas" is also due there soon.
RCCL however did state that they were carrying some food supplies to Haiti and that all revinue from their call at Labadee would be donated to Haiti.
Would be interested to hear your comments.
From Wikipedia...
"Labadee (also Labadie) is a port located on the northern coast of Haiti. It is a private resort leased to Royal Caribbean International. Royal Caribbean International has contributed the largest proportion of tourist revenue to Haiti since 1986, employing 300 locals, allowing another 200 to sell their wares on the premises, and paying the Haitian government US$6 per tourist."
If it is outside the affected area it should keep going as a resort... no point in shutting it down.... that would only be hurting ( more of ) the locals .
I can't think of any other country where a disaster at one end would shut down activity, tourist or otherwise , at the other end.

Jacktar1
18th January 2010, 23:47
John....you are dead right about the method of disposing the dead, its just like disposing of household waste or garbage.
Also with reference to keeping the Labadee (or if you prefer Labadie) resort open with the mega size cruise ships calling there, it is only about 60 miles from Port Au Prince, but again, as far as I am concerned shipowners are and always were a greedy bunch of B******S, the last 15 years of my sea service was served as master with a cruise line and they were no different !

MARINEJOCKY
18th January 2010, 23:54
No matter what you may think of the Haitians or the Americans I am sitting watching the evening news with tears in my eyes from watching the suffering of all out there especially the children.

They say that the doctors are having to amputate limbs from about 70 people per day mostly children. Apparently the crushed limbs are causing the problem and need to be removed before they affect the kidneys.

It is bad as bad can be but for those who loose the limbs apparently have very little to look forward too in a place like Hiati and that was before the earthquake.

To read of a French Minister criticizing the American response makes my blood boil and if you saw what was happening here in Florida you would understand. People are giving millions in dollars, planes are flying out with supplies, doctors and nurses and returning with the wounded. The navy, air force, marine and the army are all out there.

Ships are being loaded with portable homes and older portable school biuldings to be used as hospitals and homes.

It is heart breaking and they say they have recovered 70,000 bodies up to now and it could very easily go to 200,000 dead plus all of the injured.

6 days and they are still pulling survivors out but the pictures of the children suffering is terrible.

John Rogers
19th January 2010, 00:20
By my estimate the US will have aprox 10,000 military there, thats counting 6,000 on the Vinson,thats not counting all the civil aid workers from Search and Rescue and the Hospital staff on the Hospital ship.It must be terrible for the doctors and nurses working around the clock. Bless them all.

John.

Cisco
19th January 2010, 00:27
John....you are dead right about the method of disposing the dead, its just like disposing of household waste or garbage.


I doubt they have much option.. sub tropical conditions, limited facilities, risk of disease. In Melbourne, Oz, last Feb they had to deal with about 200 bodies from the bush fires, the morgue had to hire in refrigerated road trailers to store them.... don't see Haiti even remotely having the facilities.

Similar story in Thailand after the Tsunami. As I recall the swedes stuck on a blue and wanted theirs dug up again. My son was working as a dive instructor in Krabi when that happened... dive industry just kept on going.... only prob was the tourists stopped turning up for a while. Life goes on, etc.

Added bit... same thing happened after the liberation of Belsen and other camps.

tsell
19th January 2010, 01:58
I too have shed tears over the plight of these wretched people, particularly the little ones with their shattered bodies and not being able to understand what is happening to them. Whilst the aid is continuing to improve, there is still great suffering for those in outlying areas where, in addition to all else, there is a grave shortage of water. I have read today that fuel prices have doubled and bus fares for those leaving the city are now the equivalent - at $7.70 - to three days pay. Are there any tankers delivering fuel?

Taff

MARINEJOCKY
19th January 2010, 02:36
Taff, the report I saw was the gas station owners were keeping them closed to force up the price.

I saw one little 2 yr old broken and bewildered and being carried in to have a leg removed, it was terrible.

John Rogers
19th January 2010, 21:29
Royal Caribbean's decision to dock ships at Haitian resort creates controversy.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100119/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1063

Klaatu83
19th January 2010, 22:23
Not having any experience working on one of these cruise ships I cannot speak with any authority on the quantity of relief supplies they are able to transport, but I cannot imagine it could be more than a token amount. They are, after all, designed to carry passenger rather than cargo. However, if Royal Caribbean were to arrange for some real cargo vessels, vessels that could deliver a worthwhile quantity of relief supplies, to unload at their Labadee facility, then perhaps they wouldn't be coming in for all this criticism.

Cisco
19th January 2010, 22:50
I don't think the Labadee facility is designed for unloading any thing but punters. Looking on Google earth it appears to be connected to the south by a goat track.
I don't have a problem with the ships still calling there, its 100 miles away and undamaged. At what distance from a disaster is it OK to carry on as normal? Did they stop partying in Miami when New Orleans was flattened?

Pompeyfan
20th January 2010, 00:30
RCI should not be calling at the Haitian resort out of nothing more than respect for those who have died and their survivors. It does not matter whether the facility they own is a 100 or 10 miles from the disaster. The very fact of people enjoying themselves in the false world RCI have created for their punters is repulsive. It is bad enough at the best of times when armed guards keep the locals out of this secluded area, but when a major disaster has occurred in the same country it is not acceptable however far away. It is quite possible that those working in Labadee have relatives affected by the earthquake.

As for the bodies, they may not be as organised as other countries, and of course hot conditions does not help. What they need is people experienced at handling bodies, the ID procedure etc so that some at least have some sort of dignified burial and marked where they are. Each one is an individual person,have family, not a number. So where possible proper ID is essential so that surviving relatives can have some sort of closure.

Before I retired, I was involved with major disaster plans here on the IOW. I would have been in overall charge of temporary mortuaries as well as my own. And we call them mortuaries, not that awful word Morgue which make them sound more horrific?!.

We planned for thousands, because we are on a flight path so a Jumbo could come down on a populated area, or a ferry could sink. I wanted an area of my new mortuary designed with a refrigeration plant that could be cleared then cooled to hold over a thousand bodies to prevent refrigerated lorries being used, but the powers that be turned it down, but an area outside was set aside. It is helpful to have a large area where bodies can be brought to where people experienced at ID procedure can work, and oversee those not experienced. Once the ID is complete they can be housed in smaller units or buried right away although in some cases such as a plane coming down or ship sinking post mortems would be need on those involved such as the pilot etc. We often had mock disasters to test our system although nothing can prepare for something as massive as the disaster that has hit Haiti.

RCI are wealthy enough to keep staff in their Haiti resort paid, and wealthy enough to send relief supplies without sending passengers on vacation there.

Like I say, at the moment they should keep their passengers away out of nothing more than respect. And if people must go there, don't go on holiday, go and help.

David

mrcanoehead
20th January 2010, 00:49
Thats a good idea, if they are on one of these part boats that stops there , they should be involved if they want to go, but not to gawk. Go to help then maby more might have a different perspective waht needs to be done in the world in places like this. Not lackadasical, maby then we can all convince others back home to encourage more fainess to places like this. In the end some good can come out of this by encouraging some to take up the cause and do some good in the world.

MARINEJOCKY
20th January 2010, 01:15
David,

I can not disagree more with you. You have absolutley no idea of the conditions before the earthquake and you have not stopped to think that the dead are now estimated to be nearing 200,000, yes over 200,000 dead. That is 60,000 more than is estimated to live on the Isle of Wight (2008 estimate), never in a million years could you plan for a disaster like that. or maybe were you planning on 200 ferries sinking off your shores or 400 jumbo jets crashing into the island on one of the hottest days ever seen in your homeland.

Would you as a medical professional not care more for the injured and ignore the dead. Even if everyone of your medical staff on your island survived how could deal with the dead and the injured with no airport for 24 hours, 2 hours flying from a civilied country and no commercial sea port. think of that and then you may just may have a small idea of what is happening.

You do not need me to point out that the poor are highly unlikely to carry ID cards or for these people to have cameras to take pictures of the dead.

They have nothing, zero, nothing, they had nothing before and they certainly have nothing now. There hospitals were just about none existant before hand and now they too have gone.

As for the RCI ships stopping, did people stop taking ferries when the Thorensen ferry capsize, I am sure alot of the folk on the ferries after that were on vocation. Did the children stop going to school or did Wales shut down when the mine tip slid down the hillside and killed those kids in Abervan (sorry about the spelling).

RCI are making plans to raise money, their ships and location are not geared to taking supplies or to get it overland to the worst areas. How can you expect them to get relief supplies to the needy when the US are now having to drop what is needed by parachute from large cargo planes.

I doubt if any body could plan on how to handle 200,000 dead and many more injured.

Jacktar1
20th January 2010, 03:11
Klaatu83........your dead right with your estimate of relief supplies....a "token amount", they have to be completely replenished as far as food and bar supplies are concerned on arrival back in their home port after each cruise.
David......I completely agree with your comments........its just a matter of respect.

Cisco
20th January 2010, 03:32
?
Somewhere between 70,000 and 200,000 bodies, day temps running at 33*C/91*F, no refrigeration, 8 days since the quake, and you want them to do what exactly?

spongebob
20th January 2010, 04:03
In disasters as vast and as long lasting as this surely there is little point in ceasing nearby operations that are not directly involved or effecting the crisis.
Yes, respect should be shown but even the formality of a minutes silence, if sincere, would be better than shutting down and exacerbating the overall plight of the country.
As much normality as possible should be maintained while the real thrust of the live rescues, body retrieval and medical attention is rendered by the authorities.
Surely the American forces are the real catalysts in this field having a clear chain of command and the world's best resources available.
The media show us interviews with on site representatives of Red Cross, World Vision, the UN and other organisations but there efforts can only be piecemeal and they need to get under the military wing of command to become a really cohesive force.

Bob

Thats another Story
20th January 2010, 07:05
How much fresh water can one of the liners make per day?

Billieboy
20th January 2010, 07:21
How much fresh water can one of the liners make per day?

About one ton per passenger, minimum. max would be about 30% higher. It seems that the total casualties will be close to the Tsunami numbers, but without the tourist figures; as only about 1500 non residents are noted as missing/dead.

Thats another Story
20th January 2010, 07:40
Thanks billieboy. john

NoMoss
20th January 2010, 08:24
I felt at first that the cruiseships continuing their itinerary showed disrespect, but then gave it more thought and decided that the outcome of them calling at Labardie was more positive than negative. At least they could bring in some aid, could help support some Haitiens and perhaps more importantly raise awareness among their passengers of what the real world is like and hopefully get some contributions to the relief fund.

Cisco
20th January 2010, 08:30
One I was one a few years ago ( BRM course... no rest for the wicked ) was recovering 300+ tons a day from the Aircon...

John, if you were thinking along the lines of using a passo ship to make water I think it would be a non starter. Aside from the issue of taking a ship like that 'off hire' there appear to be no wharf facilities. Looking at google earth again it seems that the wharf shown collapsing in the earlier posts was *the* Port Au Prince wharf......anything getting ashore there would appear to have to either fly in or go over the beach....

Cisco
20th January 2010, 08:36
It is bad enough at the best of times when armed guards keep the locals out of this secluded area, ( Labadee)....
David
Nothing new there, David... they call them 'gated communities' in most places.
I don't know about the US and I don't think the guards/gatemen are armed in Q'land. However, in Buenos Aires, the ones ( about half a dozen ) that line the road from my boat to the town of San Fernando all have armed Prefectura guards on the gates....

Pompeyfan
20th January 2010, 10:13
David,

I can not disagree more with you. You have absolutley no idea of the conditions before the earthquake and you have not stopped to think that the dead are now estimated to be nearing 200,000, yes over 200,000 dead. That is 60,000 more than is estimated to live on the Isle of Wight (2008 estimate), never in a million years could you plan for a disaster like that. or maybe were you planning on 200 ferries sinking off your shores or 400 jumbo jets crashing into the island on one of the hottest days ever seen in your homeland.

Would you as a medical professional not care more for the injured and ignore the dead. Even if everyone of your medical staff on your island survived how could deal with the dead and the injured with no airport for 24 hours, 2 hours flying from a civilied country and no commercial sea port. think of that and then you may just may have a small idea of what is happening.

You do not need me to point out that the poor are highly unlikely to carry ID cards or for these people to have cameras to take pictures of the dead.

They have nothing, zero, nothing, they had nothing before and they certainly have nothing now. There hospitals were just about none existant before hand and now they too have gone.

As for the RCI ships stopping, did people stop taking ferries when the Thorensen ferry capsize, I am sure alot of the folk on the ferries after that were on vocation. Did the children stop going to school or did Wales shut down when the mine tip slid down the hillside and killed those kids in Abervan (sorry about the spelling).

RCI are making plans to raise money, their ships and location are not geared to taking supplies or to get it overland to the worst areas. How can you expect them to get relief supplies to the needy when the US are now having to drop what is needed by parachute from large cargo planes.

I doubt if any body could plan on how to handle 200,000 dead and many more injured.

Malcolm

You have sadly totally misunderstood what I was trying to say, but of course you would because you have never been in charge of a mortuary be it a 100 bodies as I had on various occasions or 200,000. And of course you would have not dealt with relatives or I assume major disaster plans where my part in that proceedings was body identification however many that may be.

Saying I have absolutely no idea of the conditions of an earthquake is an insult to myself and my profession. Of course I understand, and the sheer scale of the problem. That is why I said "where possible" knowing what a hopeless task they have. Don't forget, I trained in dealing with bodies killed by weapons of mass destruction working on figures far higher than those who have died in Haiti which makes a mockery of you saying I have no idea. Although I did think that training was waste of time but there were two reasons for training us. Firstly performing post mortems on those killed with chemical weapons including mustard gas, our own safety etc, and secondly ID. The Institute that I trained in is regarded world wide as the best there is, and all countries hold it in high esteem sending their people over to train with us. An American was on my course.

Who said anything about ID cards or cameras?. I was trained to deal with ID when there was no ID cards, no ID at all, no pictures to go on, just a leg, or an arm etc such as if an airliner came down. Some of my colleagues country and world wide were sent to major disasters to help coordinate ID procedures. Even on the IOW I dealt with many cases of no ID, bodies burnt to a cinder, washed up from the beach, often naked, 101 different reasons making ID difficult, but we had a system that we were trained in. That is why you have people like us specifically trained for such events, and why your remarks are unwittingly insulting. It is also why I was so heavily involved in major disaster plans on the IOW and would have been in overall charge of the dead whether a few or thousands. The weapons of mass destruction training was based in countries like Iraq who had already used them. The training was not just if it happened in our own country but in places like Iraq, high temperatures and numbers exceeding millions. I have been trained in such cases as Haiti with mass amount of bodies in high temperatures, hopeless conditions. In fact, had I been younger and fitter I would volunteered to go there and help with the ID procedure or lead a team. When trained, one might as well use those skills?.

Of course as a medical professional the injured comes before the dead, and during my nursing days that would have been the case. But when my job was to perform post mortems, dealing with the dead, ID procedures my remit changed.

It does not matter if the figures are 200 or 200,000, the dead were people, had families, and deserve as dignified a burial if at all possible. Yes, I know that is almost impossible due to the scale of the disaster, that they are a very poor country hospitals just about non existing etc. I know all that, but please do not insult me by saying I have absolutely no idea when I trained for such catastrophic events including dealing with mass bodies killed by mustard gas etc in countries just as poor and hot as Haiti.

What we must not do in situations like this is to let emotions of the terrible destruction this has caused get the better of us, insulting each other but deal with it as calmly as possible. That is how I worked when dealing with bodies and relatives. Few could have done my job because of the trauma involved. Some of those involved from police to nurses were so badly affected, they had nervous breakdowns. So please, do not accuse me of having no idea because I know exactly whay it is like.

David

mrcanoehead
20th January 2010, 14:04
while the Comfort was on anchaorage in Port au prince harbour, we made drinking water with our distillers about each unit can make 1,111t /day.the ship can run two distillers at a time. Its Possibles they'll be doing this upon arrival, on top of having portable Ro units ashore the army will bring in by plane & other support equip due to arrive today and the following days by ship of the Ready Reserve force that has been activated. With airports in Haiti blocked they'll rely on Santo domingo, Cuban air ports & airports in Jamacia, on top of ferry service from several locations, they'll have to land goods by lightering as no warf excists now. The Navy will be using its Hovercraft to lighters foodstuffs ashore, its not insurmountable but its on going as we speak, the issue about Labadee is it is isolated from the rest of the island, really it reflects the attitude twards the people of Haiti, just like in Cuba, Beaches are to good for the common cuban to be on them, thats just for tourists.

MARINEJOCKY
20th January 2010, 14:27
David,

I did not set out to insult you but it seems that each time some one disagree's with you or gives an opinion on bodies etc you are insulted.

Firstly at your own admission you have been retired for, what is it, 15 or 18 years and as such have no training in that time. Its a bit like me not being a C/E on a ship for that length of time and telling those onboard these days how to do their jobs.

I am sure there must be some ways to gather some DNA from the bodies but what do you do with it, whole families are wiped out, probably no relative to even ask about the kids or adults.

The tsunami victims were spread around a big area and many countries, here we are talking about a concentrated area in a very poor country.

There are many highly trained rescurers and medical staff being interviewed on the TV and they are breaking down as they are overwhelmed with the scope of the disaster. Just this morning a doctor of 43 years experience was saying how he has never cried so much in his career.

Do doubt you did some training but I can not see how anybody can deal with 200,000 bodies. There was a heat wave in Chigago a number of years ago and I think about 180 people died over a weekend and that overwhelmed the city's morgues and the bodies were being stored in refrigerated trucks. That was in a civilized city, with good communication's, roads to bring the trucks in and yet they were still over whelmed.

Now think about a country with very little before the earthquake and now they have no power, no water, no food, no refrigerated trucks, no hospitals and for a while no airport and no sea port and to top it off hours away from any large civilized country.

I did not set out to insult you but I think you are way out of tune and I think you or those still involved in either dealing with the dead or the injured could not possibly train for such an event as this or deal with the conditions there now or the after shock that occured this morning.

100 bodies in a morgue in the IOW is a very long way from 200,000 lying on the streets of Hiati or 5000 in the northern areas of Iraq.

I believe all of the major cruise line companies have their own "islands" that they stop at and all are protected by armed guards, this is no big deal as we have armed guards on the gated communties up the street from us.

MARINEJOCKY
20th January 2010, 14:34
There are pictures of a large barge discharging containers from a ramp in Haiti on our TV, the Captain said he had over 3700 ton of rice etc being discharged.

As in a lot of tourist areas, us locals spend little time at the beach and this allows the tourists and the snow birds to make full use of them. This is true in Fort Lauderdale as well as Cuba and Hiati. We are all very aware of the dangers of skin cancer and for those of us living here we would never dream of sitting out on a beach day after day all year around. There are special laws here in Florida giving us very easy access to the doctors specializing in this cancer.

RPHistorians
20th January 2010, 14:57
I have a plane ticket to Puerto Rico scheduled for feb 11 and am trying to move it sooner. Does anyone have any resources for finding out form which port a ship is going to sail to Port au Prince or a nearby port in Haiti? I would totally get involved if I can just find a ship. Sofar I've raised over $4000 and I might be able to get church funding if I can get a spot on a ship. I'm willing to drop my living arrangements in Alabama enirely to help out Haiti however I can for the long term.

Also, I think any ship, cruise or otherwise, is what Haitians NEED right now.

Hi, I'm new to the forums, by the way.

ROBERT HENDERSON
20th January 2010, 17:07
I have watched most of the news reports regarding this terrible event in Haiti, I have read many comments in the media and on other websites, most seem to be directed against America, others against other countries.
As MJ is still working he has obviously contributed more than I have as a pensioner, does it really matter as long as we all do what we can, even children in Gaza have collected money to help the children of Haiti.
Instead of this petty squabbling surely the concentration should be on alleviating further suffering to the people of Haiti. It is estimated that at least one million children have been orphaned, many have now gone to America, and people have come forward to adopt them.
I have had my disagreements with MJ in the past, but on this thread MJ is correct in what he says.

Regards Robert

MARINEJOCKY
20th January 2010, 17:22
Robert, I am not trying to score points or insult anybody but the suffering I am seeing is very bad.

I do not mind admitting it is more than just tears in my eyes when I see the suffering of everybody, especially the children and that is why I keep giving what I can. This is no reflection on anybody else, my comments about the texting of donations was just to let people know you could do that as I had never heard of it before.

To be honest I found it was not an easy process to donate to any charity helping the Tsunami victims but with this new texting process I could do it easily.

and what were those disagreements about, I did not notice any (*))

ROBERT HENDERSON
20th January 2010, 17:41
MJ
I did not think you were trying to score points, unfortunately sometimes the written word does not convey what one is trying to get across.
The main point I was trying to get across was the criticism by certain sections of the media and idiots who believe every word they say, who keep carping on regarding the reasons for America getting involved, others have criticised France, when the main concentration should be on helping the people of Haiti.
I have given what I can afford to the British Red Cross. On the Uk new French rescue wrokers were shown as well as British Firemen, Firemen from LA well as many more from various countries.
Last night on the news I saw a little girl being comforted by an American female doctor, a little girl about the same age as my great grand daughter, so as you rightly say it is truly heart breaking to see this suffering. All I was trying to convey was that the media should stop bringing politics into the reports. As for our disagreements I cannot remember, pobobly something trivial.

Regards Robert

Pompeyfan
20th January 2010, 18:13
David,

I did not set out to insult you but it seems that each time some one disagree's with you or gives an opinion on bodies etc you are insulted.

Firstly at your own admission you have been retired for, what is it, 15 or 18 years and as such have no training in that time. Its a bit like me not being a C/E on a ship for that length of time and telling those onboard these days how to do their jobs.

I am sure there must be some ways to gather some DNA from the bodies but what do you do with it, whole families are wiped out, probably no relative to even ask about the kids or adults.

The tsunami victims were spread around a big area and many countries, here we are talking about a concentrated area in a very poor country.

There are many highly trained rescurers and medical staff being interviewed on the TV and they are breaking down as they are overwhelmed with the scope of the disaster. Just this morning a doctor of 43 years experience was saying how he has never cried so much in his career.

Do doubt you did some training but I can not see how anybody can deal with 200,000 bodies. There was a heat wave in Chigago a number of years ago and I think about 180 people died over a weekend and that overwhelmed the city's morgues and the bodies were being stored in refrigerated trucks. That was in a civilized city, with good communication's, roads to bring the trucks in and yet they were still over whelmed.

Now think about a country with very little before the earthquake and now they have no power, no water, no food, no refrigerated trucks, no hospitals and for a while no airport and no sea port and to top it off hours away from any large civilized country.

I did not set out to insult you but I think you are way out of tune and I think you or those still involved in either dealing with the dead or the injured could not possibly train for such an event as this or deal with the conditions there now or the after shock that occured this morning.

100 bodies in a morgue in the IOW is a very long way from 200,000 lying on the streets of Hiati or 5000 in the northern areas of Iraq.

I believe all of the major cruise line companies have their own "islands" that they stop at and all are protected by armed guards, this is no big deal as we have armed guards on the gated communties up the street from us.

Malcolm

You are still totally misunderstanding what I am trying to say.

It does not matter how long I have been retired, body identification is the same now as it always has been. It is a specialized area which you are totally misunderstanding. You say that people could not possibly train for such as event. Well I did, which is what I keep trying to say. That is why on this island at least, until I retired that is, I would have been in charge of all temporary mortuaries(we do not call them morgues)and the ID procedure. That is because I was specifically trained for such events. This is why I know so much about handling bodies killed by chemical weapons because I was trained for such an event. We were trained to deal with bodies in all major disasters, and in the case of mustard gas etc, oversee the handling of such bodies.

It was the ID skills I learned and passed exams for that allowed me to identify a body be her false teeth. Okay, it was not a victim of mass disaster, but everybody was stuck, no idea who she was. But somewhere in the back of my mind I remembered a lecture we had in training. I found a mark in her dentures. Then after a bit of detective work with help of the police found the dentist who made it which led to the persons name. We did not have the help of DNA in our day.

Yes, of course highly trained rescuers and medical staff are breaking down in Haiti, the sheer scale being overwhelming. I know that. But what you are failing to understand is that I am highly trained as well. Far more so than you can begin to imagine. I dealt almost every day with rescuers, RNLI, ambulance men, firemen, policemen, those attending an horrific scene. Seeing such dreadful things is just as heart breaking whatever the numbers. But not one could have done my job including nurses and many doctors, some not even wanting to come into my place. Yes, trained medical professionals who could not stomach what myself my staff and pathologist did. It was a bridge too far for them all. Only today in town I bumped into a former police officer. We were talking about Haiti and I mentioned this thread. He said he still has nightmares about an accident he had to attend which involved children, all killed about 25 years ago which still gives him nightmares. He said that was bad enough, but he was made to watch me do my bit in my place. It was what he saw me do that has given him nightmares for life, far more so than attending the scene. Many say the same as already indicated. While talking to this man, another came along who is also retired now, but works part time as Coroner Officer. The first thing he said was that he wished I was still there running the place. None of the current staff are trained to my standard to save money.

You see, there is a method of identifying mass bodies which I was specifically trained for. I know it is a hopeless task out there as you rightly say, but it should also be possible with specifically trained people sent out there to have try to ensure as dignified burials as possible in such shocking conditions.

And don't forget, much of my training involved mass deaths from chemical weapons, many thousands in fact, and true stories with pictures. One of my tutors was a pathologist from Iran. Another was a leading expert on mustard gas, and another had been to many major disasters would wide, being on of the countries leading Home Office Pathologists at the time.

I hope that explains why I say what I do. In fact, one of my former colleagues who I used to do locum's for moved to the Caribbean and was involved with bodies from hurricanes. He was taught at the same place as me, and was glad of that training which helped him no end.

Finally I still think it wrong to send cruise ships to Haiti at the present time.


David

MARINEJOCKY
20th January 2010, 18:43
David,

The largest massacre to occur using mustard gas resulted in between 3200 and 5000 instant deaths and between 7000 & 10,000 injured plus many more who died in later years, Nothing like the numbers you have here.

There has never been any hurricane that resulted in tens of thousands dead and while the largest number to have died in an earthquake was 830,000 that was back in the 1500's.

Again I "totally disagree" with you. No matter how much training you or your friends received nothing could prepare you for what is happening in Hiati.

Training had been given to those medical staff and rescurers in New York and yet no body was prepared for 9/11.

Any way, I have my views and you have yours, I hate to see what is happening out there and I try to do my bit and yes I agree the ships should still go there just as I think the premier league should continue after the "death" of Portsmouth. (*))

Pompeyfan
20th January 2010, 19:19
David,

The largest massacre to occur using mustard gas resulted in between 3200 and 5000 instant deaths and between 7000 & 10,000 injured plus many more who died in later years, Nothing like the numbers you have here.

There has never been any hurricane that resulted in tens of thousands dead and while the largest number to have died in an earthquake was 830,000 that was back in the 1500's.

Again I "totally disagree" with you. No matter how much training you or your friends received nothing could prepare you for what is happening in Hiati.

Training had been given to those medical staff and rescurers in New York and yet no body was prepared for 9/11.

Any way, I have my views and you have yours, I hate to see what is happening out there and I try to do my bit and yes I agree the ships should still go there just as I think the premier league should continue after the "death" of Portsmouth. (*))

Malcolm

The job I did certainly helps when dealing with major disasters as well as dealing with what I saw every day and had to do which would give the general public nightmares for life and indeed many people such a police officers like the one I met in town today which is why you are failing to understand my point of view as a professional in these matters, and possibly never will.

Like I said, if I were younger and fitter I would volunteer to help out there or anywhere where those involved are not used to dealing with dead or badly injured people. I would be a rich man if I had a pound for the amount of people who said they could never do my job. Thankfully, some of us can,

At the moment. Haiti is going through the most psychological trauma one can imagine, grief beyond all grief. I of course dealt with grief every day on a far smaller scale of course. But there is a common theme be it one or two or tens of thousands and they is that people need space, they need respect, plenty of understanding from those used to dealing with grief. A cruise ship filled with passengers on holiday, having a good time is against everything I learned over the years when dealing with grieving people. It is wrong, and in my professional opinion, does not show respect for the people of Haiti.

David

Lancastrian
20th January 2010, 19:48
I have a plane ticket to Puerto Rico scheduled for feb 11 and am trying to move it sooner. Does anyone have any resources for finding out form which port a ship is going to sail to Port au Prince or a nearby port in Haiti? I would totally get involved if I can just find a ship. Sofar I've raised over $4000 and I might be able to get church funding if I can get a spot on a ship. I'm willing to drop my living arrangements in Alabama enirely to help out Haiti however I can for the long term.

Also, I think any ship, cruise or otherwise, is what Haitians NEED right now.

Hi, I'm new to the forums, by the way.

Perhaps best to just make a donation and leave the logistics to the professionals, or offer your services through a recognised charity.

John Rogers
20th January 2010, 21:22
I have a plane ticket to Puerto Rico scheduled for feb 11 and am trying to move it sooner. Does anyone have any resources for finding out form which port a ship is going to sail to Port au Prince or a nearby port in Haiti? I would totally get involved if I can just find a ship. Sofar I've raised over $4000 and I might be able to get church funding if I can get a spot on a ship. I'm willing to drop my living arrangements in Alabama enirely to help out Haiti however I can for the long term.

Also, I think any ship, cruise or otherwise, is what Haitians NEED right now.

Hi, I'm new to the forums, by the way.

Go to the nearest Red Cross office and offer your service and money,if not the Red Cross Catholic Charity is a good one.

A Catholic orphanage with the help of the air force airlifted 54 children out yesterday,Haitian government slowed the process down for a few hours but they finally gave approval.(Thumb)

mrcanoehead
20th January 2010, 22:56
As of late today The Comfort is on station, already they've been working on patients medivacked from the Carrier Carl vinson. At lat now they cn get moving on helping these people in their hour of dire need.

Klaatu83
21st January 2010, 00:04
As to ships that are scheduled to call at Port au Prince, you might want to check out any of the ones listed in the following news item:

http://www.enewspf.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12999:secretary-lahood-announces-us-merchant-marine-mobilizing-for-haiti-relief&catid=88888983:latest-national-news&Itemid=88889930

Binnacle
21st January 2010, 10:16
Fortunately it is the natural instinct of mankind to aid our fellow human beings when in distress. Those who can afford to make a contribution and whose purse strings are untrammeled by political baggage can do so quickly and safely thanks to the internet. Watching on TV those rescue workers risk life and limb, and reading about the generous sums donated gives hope for mankind.

billyboy
21st January 2010, 10:48
Hear Hear Binnacle!
Poor sods have a 6.1 yesterday as well. not funny for the rescuers to work in.

mrcanoehead
21st January 2010, 11:39
The petersburgh is the former HESS VOYAGER, and the crane ships are former AMX liners.

ROBERT HENDERSON
21st January 2010, 11:58
Last night on the news was a more happy note regarding rescue workers.
A group of American workers from New York and Virginia had finished work for the day, a local Haitian policeman directed them to a site where he thought he had faint cries. Off the rescue team went and after a lot of hard work brought out a seven year old boy and his ten year old sister, seemingly unhurt physically.

Regards Robert

Martyn
21st January 2010, 21:27
I'm quite surprised that google has updated it's map of the Port au Prince area. It usually takes them weeks to do such a thing.

mrcanoehead
21st January 2010, 23:34
here is a photo from yesterday in port au prince harbour http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/100120-N-1240O-414.jpg

MARINEJOCKY
22nd January 2010, 00:46
355 Million US Dollars raised by the American people in the last nine days.

Amazing

Plus the help from the government with the ships, planes etc

mrcanoehead
22nd January 2010, 16:48
Sea Bees are working on getting the docks servicable in the harbour of Port au Prince, this should aleviate shortages of goods ashore & remove anotherbottleneck, word has it a few more days if no more quakes, seems taht plate is really active.

mrcanoehead
22nd January 2010, 16:55
Another picture of the comfort arriving in Port Au Prince Harbour http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/100120-N-4378P-006.jpg

mrcanoehead
22nd January 2010, 16:59
Lightering supplies ashore in Haiti http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/100120-M-8752R-033.jpg