King Edwin Transatlantic sailing vessel

ChrisHBWB
12th February 2010, 17:34
Hello together,

I signed up here because I am searching for information on my great-grandfather, he supposably sailed in the King Edwin? (presumably the last sailing vessel of the King Line) from Los Angeles,US to Harwich,UK 1897? in 122 days. Peter Brant (formerly Bertelsen) was his name 1875-1959, born in Latvia. Around 1894 he was whaling on the Karluk. Peter Brant then lived in Sunderland, UK

Any tiny hint would help!
Thankyou
Chris

Roger Griffiths
12th February 2010, 18:13
Are you sure the name of the vessel is KING EDWIN.
Maybe KING EDWARD

Roger

ChrisHBWB
12th February 2010, 18:28
Are you sure the name of the vessel is KING EDWIN.
Maybe KING EDWARD

Roger

Thanks Roger,

My information has a "?" behind Edwin, of course it could be the Edgar, Edward, Egbert, Alfred? But which sailing vessel of the King Line was sailing around 1897 ?

Greetings,
chris

Roger Griffiths
12th February 2010, 19:09
King Line as I understand it were not founded until 1899
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/lines/king.htm
Attached (sorry for the poor quality) from Lloyds register 1897/98 You will note several vessels with the KING prefix were owned by J A Walker @co. I know nothing about this company, maybe someone will enlighten us.


Roger

ChrisHBWB
12th February 2010, 19:35
Thanks for your help Roger,

The note that I have was writen by Peter Brant's son (also a 1.mate) in the eighties and reads: "King Edwin? last sailing vessel belonging to the King line, sailed 1897 from Los Angeles to Harwich in 122 days"

Maybe somebody has the book: "Idyll of the Kings: History of the King Line, 1889-1979" and could look.

regards,
chris

ChrisHBWB
14th February 2010, 15:08
I ordered the King Line book, should receive it Monday or Tuesday.
Let's see what's in there.........

Roger Griffiths
14th February 2010, 23:37
http://www.benjidog.co.uk/allen/index_files/Page5164.htm

Maybe benjidog, one of the forum moderators, could expand on this page.



Roger

benjidog
15th February 2010, 19:40
http://www.benjidog.co.uk/allen/index_files/Page5164.htm

Maybe benjidog, one of the forum moderators, could expand on this page.

Roger

I am afraid that I don't have anything to add to that. It is worth reading Fred Henderson's account of the Kylsant empire HERE (http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/guides/Royal_Mail_Steam_Packet_Company_Kylsant_Empire_Par t_1)though.

Roger Griffiths
15th February 2010, 23:16
Thanks for that link Brian. An interesting read.

Would I be correct in my assumption that King Line never owned a sailing vessel?

regards
Roger

Hugh MacLean
16th February 2010, 10:45
According to the Times there was a King Line in service in 1874 (Steam - Liverpool to Bombay via Suez). New steamship the KING ARTHUR had just come on line.
Regards

GALTRA
16th February 2010, 18:11
Chris, I think you have the wrong shipping line, the ship you seek may have belonged to J.A.Walker & Co; Glasgow who had a fleet of large sailing vessels bearing the prefix "King" in the late 1800's, == Kings - Alfred, Malcolm, Arthur, Edward, David, George and James. The King Edward was a fast ship as was the King George. Good luck with your search, Charley

Roger Griffiths
16th February 2010, 20:41
Charley
I am glad someone has seen the light, instead of trying to make their own assumptions fit the facts.
I think the only contender for the ship in the original post would be KING EDWARD official number 98625.
If her crew agreements for 1897 are anywhere they will be available to order from here.
http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=98625

Hugh, the steamer KING ARTHUR you refer to O/N 70595 was owned by The Bombay and Persia Steam Navigation co. POR Bombay.

regards
Roger

GALTRA
16th February 2010, 23:03
Roger, you may be correct suggesting KING EDWARD but I feel she may have been the KING ALFRED whose official number I think was 92252, she was an iron barque built in 1886 by Barclay,Clure & Co; Glasgow, 1319 gt. 228'.0'' x 36'.5'' x 21'.0''. Reg Glasgow. A new master joined her in 1897, CaptaIn A. McIntyre.What makes me think this is the fact that she was the last survivor of Walkers fleet. She was broken up in 1924 as the Italian GENEROSITA, ex LUCIA and before that, PROVVIDENZA. Whence the mention that she was the"last sailing vessel of the King Line". Charley

Roger Griffiths
17th February 2010, 00:38
Charley,
You could well be correct. KING ALFRED was O/N 93252
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=-5595442&CATLN=7&Highlight=%2C93252&accessmethod=0

She has crew agreements for 1897 in MUN.


Roger

GALTRA
17th February 2010, 00:53
Thanks for the number correction Roger, could'nt figure out why she was'nt showing up. Charley

ChrisHBWB
25th March 2010, 20:12
Thanks for all your input, but I'm still not further......
A trip from Los Angeles to Harwich 1897 (round Cape Horn presumably) would be ca. 13000 nautic miles, so in 122 days that would mean about 4-4.5 knots, which would fit a sailing vessel. I have emailed some archives in California, but no reply yet

Regards,
Chris

ChrisHBWB
25th March 2010, 20:17
What San Francisco archives found for me, was a crew list from 1897 as a seaman on the KARLUK, so I'm getting closer now

ChrisHBWB
18th April 2010, 16:51
Hello,

I am now believing it was the KING EDWARD no. 98625 (J.A.Walker & Co), I found records she left port from San Francisco early 1898. It cannot of been 1897 because he was whaling on the KARLUK until Nov 1897.

Is there a photo or painting of the KING EDWARD anywhere?

Regards,
Chris

ChrisHBWB
21st April 2010, 17:42
Hello and thanks all,

I finally have the MUN records, it was the KING EDWARD 98625 (J.A.Walker). But one thing still seems strange: The route back to England leaving in San Francisco 15 Nov 1897 and arriving 13 Apr 1898 in Sunderland via Queenstown (presumably Queenstown, New Zealand) seems pretty fast??

Regards Chris

ray1buck1
21st April 2010, 18:35
Chris
There are several if the correct vessel
http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum%20Ships/Old%20Ships%20K/slides/King%20Edward-07.html scroll through
Ray

ChrisHBWB
21st April 2010, 18:41
Hi Ray,
King Edward reg. Glasgow 1891 was a sailing bark.
I think the Queenstown I'm looking for is in south Ireland (now called Cobh), that would fit

Regards,
Chris

ChrisHBWB
22nd April 2010, 06:31
Hello,

With help from the Newspaper San Francisco Call I am able to reconstruct the routes of the King Edward. They even have a sketch from the voyage Australia-California (attached) ! Link to one of the articles: http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85066387/1897-02-02/ed-1/seq-7/;words=King+Edward

Now my research continues, as he signed up 16 Nov 1896 in Newcastle, Australia (not England as first assumed). So I have to find out how he got to Australia

Regards,
Chris