Argentina in Falkland permit move (BBC News)

SN NewsCaster
16th February 2010, 19:30
Argentina says any boat sailing between it and the Falkland Islands will now need a government permit, increasing a row over oil exploration.

More from BBC News... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/news/int/search/news%2Bsport/ship/-/2/hi/business/8518982.stm)

borderreiver
16th February 2010, 21:44
We must bost our navy out to all the islands and increase our land forces.
start getting ships out of morthballs or laid up to save money.

Klaatu83
16th February 2010, 22:33
So the Argentinians are rattling their sabres once again, are they? A Chilean harbour pilot once told me that the Chileans sympathized with the British on this issue because the Argentinians used to behave in the same high-handed manner towards them. He said that the Argentinians insisted that the Straits of Magellan really ought to belong to Argentina and that, every so often, they would send out a military expedition to try to take it over. The Chileans would then be compelled to dispatch their own Navy and Marines to run the Argentinians out again.

John Dryden
16th February 2010, 22:46
Why can,t we just go halves on it?So much better for both countries what with logistics and exploration costs,after all the Falklands are 8000 miles away from my nearest petrol station.

Billieboy
17th February 2010, 05:45
Why can,t we just go halves on it?So much better for both countries what with logistics and exploration costs,after all the Falklands are 8000 miles away from my nearest petrol station.

Depends on what the Falklanders think John. Also, Maggie sent Shackleton down there for a survey, the results are still mostly secret; but the survey was the reason that action was taken. I suppose that the big question is, how much of the Falkands will still be there after the southern ice cap has melted.

J Boyde
17th February 2010, 06:02
Billyboy, Just think how nice and warm the Falklands will be when the the ice has gone. It will be in great demand with palm trees and hula dancers all over the place. Sorry about the penquins.
Jim B

Thats another Story
17th February 2010, 06:45
Why can,t we just go halves on it?So much better for both countries what with logistics and exploration costs,after all the Falklands are 8000 miles away from my nearest petrol station.

i think that would be the best thing for both countries ?save another war over oil and the arabs will think about the price we pay them.(Hippy)

borderreiver
17th February 2010, 07:56
After spending 7 months swinging on a hook in SanCarlos water it is a great place. the locals are great. and it is British
we should look after it better.

Old Janner
17th February 2010, 08:17
Having spent some years in the Falklands on A MOD Charters
with the "Stena Inspector" "Bar Protector" and the "Stena Seaspread" I made friends with many Islanders and never met one that wanted a dual Nationality, ONLY TO BE BRITISH FALKLAND ISLANDERS.
If the Goverment ever reduced our Tri Service facilities and commitment.
And If the Argentines decided to have another invaision, It would be difficult to hold/regain the Islands and we would have lost face and faith of the Islanders.

Lancastrian
17th February 2010, 09:11
how much of the Falkands will still be there after the southern ice cap has melted.

What makes you think its going to?
Havn't you heard? Global warming has been exposed as a con! Even the man who fiddled the figures at the East Anglia CRU now admits there has been no warming since 1995.

Billieboy
17th February 2010, 09:19
What makes you think its going to?
Havn't you heard? Global warming has been exposed as a con! Even the man who is suspended as head of the East Anglia CRU now admits there has been no warming since 1995.

I'm not so sure about that, how does this particular wizard explain the reduction in altitude of the south polar station, (on top of the ice cap), over the last ten years?

Pat Kennedy
17th February 2010, 09:23
According to the Foreign Office, this move by Argentina does not in any way impinge on the movement of shipping around the Falkland Islands.

Lancastrian
17th February 2010, 09:25
Global figures are averaged out across the globe. They are not supposed to account for local variations.

Billieboy
17th February 2010, 09:54
Global figures are averaged out across the globe. They are not supposed to account for local variations.

This particular Antartic local variation, seems to be quite constant!

Lancastrian
17th February 2010, 10:08
This particular Antartic local variation, seems to be quite constant!

Depends on whom you believe! http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2005/05/27/antarctic-ice-a-global-warming-snow-job/
Its only melting in the peninsula, the vast majority of the Antarctic landmass is rapidly gaining ice and snow cover.

SN NewsCaster
17th February 2010, 12:40
Argentina has announced new controls on shipping en route to the Falkland Islands in a growing row over UK oil drilling plans.

More from BBC News... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/news/int/search/news%2Bsport/ship/-/2/hi/americas/8518982.stm)

paullad1984
17th February 2010, 15:31
If diplomacy follows its usual course, how long before another falklands war?

borderreiver
17th February 2010, 15:39
Lets get ready this time.Too many ships on the trots or laid up alongside.

Neil Mant
17th February 2010, 16:05
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1251609/Argentina-takes-control-Falkland-waters-oil-rights-row-Britain.html
Neil

the brit
17th February 2010, 16:10
Lets get ready this time.Too many ships on the trots or laid up alongside.

I totally agree to many ships laid up or as MOD puts in in prepared readiness, i hope the hierachy are taking notice this is not a quick jaunt across the channel if things were to escalate in a short period of time maybe they should start putting the mothballs away and re-awakening some of those ships that are in a state of so called prepared readiness. Or lets be ahead of the game and send a task force there right away so the enemy has no advantage.

Markcad
17th February 2010, 16:21
Looks like its' time for me to dust off the Anti flash gear in readiness for the Falklands MK2 .


Back in 82 , most of us involved in Operation Corporate (once we had visited the chart room and actually found out the geographical location of the Falkland Islands)...Strongly suspected that all this effort was not just to keep the union jack fluttering over Stanley....The word "Oil" crept into the conversation .....We were told it was nothing to do with mineral rights etc.

I didnt swallow the official line then. And it would appear that I was correct in assuming that if, and when, oil exploration began down south, the argies would kick off again.

Watch this space....I hope to god I am wrong .....We are far to stretched to be engaging in any other theatres of operation.

We had flogged off half the fleet in 82....what are we going to do this time !

Martyn
17th February 2010, 16:33
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1251609/Argentina-takes-control-Falkland-waters-oil-rights-row-Britain.html
Neil

It's nice to see they done their research regarding the " Royal Navy ship HMS Clyde" . :rolleyes:

stein
17th February 2010, 17:32
I've read nearly half of 400 comments to the Daily Mail article, and I'm recommending reading a sample. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1251609/Argentina-blockade-Falkland-Islands-oil-rights-sparks-row.html In Norway they are quarreling with great anger over who to blame for the lack of Olympic gold medals, a quarrel which I have just read a part of, and which is sort of overlapping my study of this debate, which is part of why I think some of the commentators in the DM (not the members here) are a bit funny I suppose. There are many parallells. But I was a bit alarmed at the many who seemed all ready for a war England against Scotland (it seems there are more oil on Scottish territory), as that is a bit closer to us in Norway than the Falklands are.
A number of Argentinians claims there is nothing new in the situation: Argentinia have for a long time refused the supplying of the islands from their ports, and a restatement of that is what Britain now declares itself highly alarmed about. Which sounds hopeful.

Here's the worst and the best according to the Mail readers:

Worst rated:
Just give it back. It’s not worth anybody dying for. All these warmongers should get hold of an atlas and a calendar. This is 2010- Empire is over and Las Malvinas are miles away from England!
- Ed Burns, Hong Kong, 17/2/2010 11:17

Best rated:
Well, we'd better get Nuliebour and Brown out pretty pronto or he'll give it away with loads of international investment funding to go with it! He's given the UK away to the Franco/German EU club, sold Dover off to the French, secretly planning Greece's bail out, paid the public services to vote SuperSocialism and money by the bucket load to anyone who isn't British!
Oh, and along with that hapless idiot Defence Secretary, trashed the armed forces! Our service personal haven't even got decent barracks to live in anymore!
- Tim, UK, 17/2/2010 9:33

AncientBrit
17th February 2010, 17:37
I should imagine with SN's fame world-wise in the nautical field that there is bound to be a member who is a serving member of the Armada de la Republic Argentina trawling for items of info that dont appear in the media. I would ask members to consider the operational value of any posting they may make in this thread.

ddraigmor
17th February 2010, 18:08
Bob,

Of course you are absolutely correct in that. The giving away of information to the Argentinians is something we should be aware is a possibility as they do certainly trawl this most popular of net forums.

I think that mentioning SN Member Nelson1805's now deleted post about the capabilities of the nuclear submarine fleet and his long - but interesting - thread of the capabilities of our surface fleet, together with is thread on the Navy's plan to call up all experienced seafarers and reservists to man both a surface fleet and logistics train using STUFT woud be tantamount to being labelled a traitor so we'd better not.

On a lighter note. I read an article in 'Air Forces Monthly' a few days back about the exploits of an Argentinian Pucara Pilot and how, once the aircraft had been destroyed by the Brits, took the rocket launchers off and mounted them on wooden crates, bravely defending the airfield from the screaming hordes of Brits and inflicting 250 casualties on the UK forces in the engagement.

Despite much research it is a claim that is unsubstanciated. The official figure on the UK side was 255.......and that ws for the whole campaign!

Ah but never underestimate propoganda, eh?

Jonty

captain61
17th February 2010, 18:12
I should imagine with SN's fame world-wise in the nautical field that there is bound to be a member who is a serving member of the Armada de la Republic Argentina trawling for items of info that dont appear in the media. I would ask members to consider the operational value of any posting they may make in this thread.



Wooo Mr Agentine Navy man we dont have any Navy or RAF OR Army (EEK)

Mind you we do have a larger force of men and women down there, than back in 82

I went in 82 (RAF then)

wigger
17th February 2010, 18:29
What ships are where etc might be best kept under wraps, but lets face it, any number of publications or websites give the number of ships we have and their capabilities, (or don't have as the case maybe). As for bringing back ships currently laid up etc, apart from Invincible there ain't many of them left that would be much use!

paullad1984
17th February 2010, 18:40
Damn, wish id stayed in the navy for a while longer

Cutsplice
17th February 2010, 21:31
Who owns the Islands now, in 1982 it was a company called Coalite, havent heard anything about them for many years now. I suspect those that live on the islands own very little of it, in respect to who has claim to the rights to administer control over the islands I reserve judgement.

Lancastrian
17th February 2010, 22:05
I should imagine with SN's fame world-wise in the nautical field that there is bound to be a member who is a serving member of the Armada de la Republic Argentina trawling for items of info that dont appear in the media. I would ask members to consider the operational value of any posting they may make in this thread.

No need to worry. The BBC will happily tell them anything they want to know just like last time.

Terry Worsley
17th February 2010, 22:16
The Falklands war was engineered by Margaret Thatcher to preserve her career which was at a very low ebb in '82. The sinking of the Belgrano scuppered any hope of a negotiated settlement. Remarkably the papers of the submarine which sank the Belgranowent mysteriously missing!! I wonder what will disclosed, if anything will be allowed to, under the 30 year rule. In my opinion Mrs Thatcher was responible for the deaths of 300 young Argentinian sailors and she should be held to account!

Lancastrian
17th February 2010, 22:31
Who owns the Islands now, in 1982 it was a company called Coalite, havent heard anything about them for many years now. I suspect those that live on the islands own very little of it, in respect to who has claim to the rights to administer control over the islands I reserve judgement.

Coalite used to own the FI Company which then owned most of East (but not West) Falkland. In 1991 their land holdings were transferred to the FI Government. There has since been a large increase in owner occupied farms.
The development grant included funding to set up the Falkland Islands Development Corporation (FIDC), and for the farm subdivision (land reform) process, working towards the Islands' longer term economic benefit.
In 1986, with the declaration of a 150-nautical mile radius Fisheries Conservation & Management Zone, a fisheries licensing system was established by FIG. This heralded new financial independence, and moved the economy of the Islands away from its reliance on wool.
The Falkland Islands are economically self-sufficient in all areas except defence - the cost of which amounts to some 0.5% of the total UK defence budget.

Read all about it http://www.falklands.gov.fk//index.html

The rights to administer the Islands are in accordance with the United Nations principle of self determination. So there!

Lancastrian
17th February 2010, 22:39
The Falklands war was engineered by Margaret Thatcher to preserve her career which was at a very low ebb in '82. The sinking of the Belgrano scuppered any hope of a negotiated settlement. Remarkably the papers of the submarine which sank the Belgranowent mysteriously missing!! I wonder what will disclosed, if anything will be allowed to, under the 30 year rule. In my opinion Mrs Thatcher was responible for the deaths of 300 young Argentinian sailors and she should be held to account!

Rubbish. The Belgrano was sunk to foil a pincer attack on the British task force. It effectively ended Argentine naval participation for which I am personally very grateful. The required Rules of Engagement were instigated by Admiral Woodward and approved by the War Cabinet and the whole sequence of signals and events has already been made known in several books so I am mystified as to what your mysterious "papers " are supposed to reveal.

From http://www.operationcorporate.com/p1_battles_belgrano.php - "The sinking of the Belgrano became a cause célèbre for anti-war campaigners in Britain (http://www.travelguide2uk.com/). This was for a variety of reasons, including because the ship was outside the 200 mile (320 kilometre) Total Exclusion Zone that the British had declared around the Falklands, because the ship was on a westerly heading at the time it was attacked, and because a Peruvian peace proposal was still on the table at the time of the attack.

However, the sinking of the Belgrano was justified under international law, as the heading of a belligerent naval vessel has no bearing on its status. Furthermore, the Hector Bonzo, the captain of the Belgrano, has himself testified that the attack was legitimate for this reason. The fact that the ship was outside the British declared Total Exclusion Zone does not affect this analysis, especially since the British had informed Argentina (http://www.multiseeker.com/search.php?r=&q=Argentina) on April 23rd (http://www.fun4birthdays.com/birthday/april_23.html), that Argentine ships and aircraft outside the Exclusion Zone could be attacked if they posed a threat to the British task force, and senior figures in the Argentine Navy have made clear that they understood this message; for example, Argentine Rear-Admiral Allara who commanded the Belgrano's task group said "After that message of 23 April, the entire South Atlantic was an operational theatre for both sides. We, as professionals, said it was just too bad that we lost the Belgrano.". Finally, in 1994 (http://www.fun4birthdays.com/year/1990s_1994.html), the Argentine government conceded that the sinking of the Belgrano was a "legal act of war.""

Stuart
17th February 2010, 22:56
Here I go adding fuel to the fire as usual! We are in the realms of history, and how we percieve it. I believe that, for whatever reason, the Argentinians invaded the Falklands, and so I volunteered to send them home. I am now 55 and i would volunteer again should an invasion happen once more. I felt then, and feel now, that the people should be allowed to determine their own future. Sadly/happily my offer would not now be accepted as I am too old, as anachronistic as the morse code we then used, and there is nothing left for me to sail on anyway. All governments should concentrate more on the interests of their citizens, and the planet as a whole, rather than just playing the age old political game of sabre rattling that they seem to enjoy the most.
Rgds
Stuart

Stevo
18th February 2010, 02:04
What exactly is the threat from Argentina now militarily speaking? The ARA is probably less capable now and the army is not as big. Not quite sure what the airforce threat might be but surely we have better amphibious forces than in 82, more SeaWolf, phalanx/goalkeeper CIWs and Sea King AEWs. And you have to question whether the Argies have the stomach for a fight, unless they are supported by another.

Lancastrian
18th February 2010, 08:23
The threat is minimal. The unpopular Arg government are just sabre rattling to cause a distraction from their problems. They seem to make a habit of it.

SN NewsCaster
18th February 2010, 09:00
The Royal Navy's presence in the South Atlantic should be raised following a dispute with Argentina, shadow foreign secretary William Hague says.

More from BBC News... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/news/int/search/news%2Bsport/ship/-/2/hi/americas/8521429.stm)

clearway1
18th February 2010, 12:05
what about a new falklands task force possible or not ?

R58484956
18th February 2010, 14:09
Have we got any spare fighting forces, could mobilise the Chelsea pensioners or the Yeoman of the Guard.

clearway1
18th February 2010, 15:20
Have we got any spare fighting forces, could mobilise the Chelsea pensioners or the Yeoman of the Guard.

totaly agree what spare forces,merchant ships all flagged out, yeoman of guard and a few rowing boats should do the trick lol

OLD STRAWBERRY
18th February 2010, 15:34
There's nothing to worry about Lad's, Captain Shaun is on His way down in Wave Ruler He'll sort 'em out, He'll photograph 'em to death. Give 'em hell Shaun we're with You.

AncientBrit
18th February 2010, 17:26
Regarding my earlier posting......I rest my case!

China hand
18th February 2010, 18:18
Anyone remember that lovely little DARWIN that used to run between Montevideo and Stanley? Looked like a mini Union Castle Mail Boat.
Awrite, Monte is a bit further than Ushuaia, but it worked for years.
In the mid '60s, DARWIN and AES were about the only regular runners.
(Mr P.Smithaine, 1st Mate on DARWIN, taught me the value of a magnetic compass auto pilot over a gyro auto pilot in heavy weather; never forgotten - respect).

ssr481
18th February 2010, 18:41
If I may chime in here.. I've been following the Argentina/Falklands issue for some time... I read in a news site earlier today that since Argentina's economy is not doing well, they are looking for any way to get their hands on the billions to be earned if the potential for oil is realized. With that being said, no one knows for sure if the oil is there.. there are at least four companies in the UK and/or Falklands who think there is oil there and who are activly pursuing drilling to find out IF the oil is there...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8519807.stm - Falkland Islands: Oil boom or no oil boom? - i.e. do commercially viable oil fields exist (and no one knows for sure).. and the Argentines want in on the action if oil is there..

Lancastrian
18th February 2010, 18:52
what about a new falklands task force possible or not ?

The whole point of building the airfield, with garrison and air defence, was so that we wouldnt need to send another task force.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Mount_Pleasant
If it comes to the crunch a couple of subs should do.

AncientBrit
18th February 2010, 19:07
Anyone remember that lovely little DARWIN that used to run between Montevideo and Stanley? Looked like a mini Union Castle Mail Boat.
Awrite, Monte is a bit further than Ushuaia, but it worked for years.
In the mid '60s, DARWIN and AES were about the only regular runners.
(Mr P.Smithaine, 1st Mate on DARWIN, taught me the value of a magnetic compass auto pilot over a gyro auto pilot in heavy weather; never forgotten - respect).

RMS Darwin for the longest time was the only real commercial transport between the Islands and civilization, mainly I believe, because Montevideo was the destination for plane passengers or ship passengers from UK.
I believe it was run and owned by the F.I.C. which gave it yet another hold over life on the islands. tales of farmers on the islands finding their wool didnt make it to market if they upset the F.I.C. manager.
During my 2 years down there in 59/61, the John Biscoe and Shackleton, together with the Maga and Helga Dan also made direct trips from the UK, mainly with supplies for the British Antarctic Survey bases.

China hand
18th February 2010, 19:22
Show 'em a video of the Testbank team tangoing down the 25 de Mayo in the 60's. Instant rejection of all ideas that the Perfidious Albions could be worth negotiating with!(==D)

ddraigmor
18th February 2010, 19:35
In my opinion Mrs Thatcher was responible for the deaths of 300 young Argentinian sailors and she should be held to account!

Lamcastrian said it so much beter than me - but the statement is still a bit suss as it was Argentina that started the war.

What did they expect when they sent in their military to occupy the islands?

Jonty

sidsal
18th February 2010, 19:40
Fear not. We still have plenty of pedalos, water wings, canal barges, sailing dinghies, kayaks and canoes.
What's more both the Argentinian cruisers - the GRAPEFRUIT SGAMENTOS amd the FRAY BENTOS SUPERBOS are undergoing the third of their 20 year refits so are not available for another 2 years.

Cutsplice
18th February 2010, 19:46
Have I got it wrong? prior to the invasion in 1982 the population of the Falkland Islands were British Subjects without the right of residence in the UK. Post invasion they were accorded the status of British Citizens with automatic rights of residence in the UK, seems strange somehow?.

Lancastrian
18th February 2010, 19:49
Pic of the Darwin HERE (http://www.fairisle.org.uk/davewheelerimages/South%20Georgia/KEP/KEP_1.htm)

Billieboy
18th February 2010, 20:03
Could always charter the Maersk Blue fleet from the Fal.

Pat McCardle
18th February 2010, 20:25
Since the end of 1982 do we really have the manpower & ships to defend an invasion of the Isle of Wight?

wigger
18th February 2010, 20:47
Pat, maybe if the ferries are Pompey side at the time of the invasion we could use them? if they are on the island side......maybe not looking so good! :D

barrinoz
19th February 2010, 00:43
Have I got it wrong? prior to the invasion in 1982 the population of the Falkland Islands were British Subjects without the right of residence in the UK. Post invasion they were accorded the status of British Citizens with automatic rights of residence in the UK, seems strange somehow?.

Says it all, really. Did they get a cap they could doff as well when they were granted R.O.R? Subjects, indeed!

Cisco
19th February 2010, 01:54
I should imagine with SN's fame world-wise in the nautical field that there is bound to be a member who is a serving member of the Armada de la Republic Argentina trawling for items of info that dont appear in the media. I would ask members to consider the operational value of any posting they may make in this thread.

To late, Bob me old gringo mate... Cisco the Cyber Spy has already entered up all the ultra sensitive British naval intelligence disclosed in this thread in his 2010 copy of Janes and is off to Armada HQ with it while you sleep......

:)

stein
19th February 2010, 07:27
Here's a relevant Guardian editorial from Feb 19th. There's a few funny lines there: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/19/falkland-islands-editorial

Billieboy
19th February 2010, 07:36
RMS Darwin for the longest time was the only real commercial transport between the Islands and civilization, mainly I believe, because Montevideo was the destination for plane passengers or ship passengers from UK.
I believe it was run and owned by the F.I.C. which gave it yet another hold over life on the islands. tales of farmers on the islands finding their wool didnt make it to market if they upset the F.I.C. manager.
During my 2 years down there in 59/61, the John Biscoe and Shackleton, together with the Maga and Helga Dan also made direct trips from the UK, mainly with supplies for the British Antarctic Survey bases.

All four of the ships mentioned were based at Barry or Cardiff, the "Dan" boats usually at Cardiff, where they were dry docked at Mountstuart or the Channel. The other two used to be docked at Baileys, in Barry.

AncientBrit
19th February 2010, 08:51
To late, Bob me old gringo mate... Cisco the Cyber Spy has already entered up all the ultra sensitive British naval intelligence disclosed in this thread in his 2010 copy of Janes and is off to Armada HQ with it while you sleep......

:)

Dios! Estoy cansado y tengo mucho suenas(K)

Lancastrian
19th February 2010, 10:17
Says it all, really. Did they get a cap they could doff as well when they were granted R.O.R? Subjects, indeed!

I was much happier to have a passport which described me as a British Subject than the mickey mouse Euro/Celtic version I have today.

Anyway, the Kelpers had ROR before the British Nationality Act 1981 and the Act of 1983 only restored that right.

A view of the present situation from the 1982 Amphibious Commander - It's the bitter truth: We couldn't send a task force to the Falklands today (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1252149/Its-bitter-truth-We-send-task-force-Falklands-today.html&ct=ga&cd=W7d1QIIvyiE&usg=AFQjCNHusPdV1FD1ko-ld0p8f5UfAf_m3w)

scorcher
19th February 2010, 10:19
Apparently the geologists are making more intensive searches for oil in the waters surrounding The Falklands. Could S.N. members illuminate me as to the limits of those boundaries please? and should deposits be found that are economical to drill for what do members think the reaction will be from the
Argentine?.

Lancastrian
19th February 2010, 10:44
There is a map here- It's the bitter truth: We couldn't send a task force to the Falklands today (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1252149/Its-bitter-truth-We-send-task-force-Falklands-today.html&ct=ga&cd=W7d1QIIvyiE&usg=AFQjCNHusPdV1FD1ko-ld0p8f5UfAf_m3w)

But you are behind the curve. See this thread - http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=32273

Pat Kennedy
19th February 2010, 11:02
There is a map here- It's the bitter truth: We couldn't send a task force to the Falklands today (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1252149/Its-bitter-truth-We-send-task-force-Falklands-today.html&ct=ga&cd=W7d1QIIvyiE&usg=AFQjCNHusPdV1FD1ko-ld0p8f5UfAf_m3w)

But you are behind the curve. See this thread - http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=32273

That article in the Daily Mail must bring great comfort and encouragement to the Argentine Government.
Pat(EEK)

scorcher
19th February 2010, 11:30
Thank you Lancastrian for informing me that I am indeed 'behind the curve' am also in the wrong ballpark !.
I did see the other thread but did not think the focus was on the (projected) oil deposits. My error.(POP)

Billieboy
19th February 2010, 11:31
What a load of rubbish the Mail spouts! There are an awful lot of people in big oil companies wondering who drilled and is pumping oil in concessions that have not yet been surveyed or explored!

stein
19th February 2010, 12:35
Giving the Falklanders their say in the sovereignty dispute, it might not be that smart. Consider the possibility they really find oil, lots of it. Then they will want to become independent immediately! The hell with faraway Britain: the money in Switzerland, the all year holiday house in Barbados, the Norwegians handling the oilfields with Pakistani workers, and the sheep having to make it on their own. Could happen: next the Channel Islands, then the Isle of Wight.

scorcher
19th February 2010, 12:53
Giving the Falklanders their say in the sovereignty dispute, it might not be that smart. Consider the possibility they really find oil, lots of it. Then they will want to become independent immediately! The hell with faraway Britain: the money in Switzerland, the all year holiday house in Barbados, the Norwegians handling the oilfields with Pakistani workers, and the sheep having to make it on their own. Could happen: next the Channel Islands, then the Isle of Wight.

Stein a few years ago we had our own passports here on the Isle of Wight as a tourist gimmick ! Next time it could be for real if we declare independence after the oil (which IS here) is exploited. As far as the sheep are concerned there are moves afoot to arm them as a militia when the 'Texas Tea' is brewed. I would appreciate your discretion in this matter as it is an highly sensitive issue at present.

greektoon
19th February 2010, 13:21
Stein a few years ago we had our own passports here on the Isle of Wight as a tourist gimmick ! Next time it could be for real if we declare independence after the oil (which IS here) is exploited. As far as the sheep are concerned there are moves afoot to arm them as a militia when the 'Texas Tea' is brewed. I would appreciate your discretion in this matter as it is an highly sensitive issue at present.

I am the proud owner of a geordie passport. The beer wells are still pumping but there are disturbing reports of "peak brown ale" (EEK)

Billieboy
19th February 2010, 14:34
I am the proud owner of a geordie passport. The beer wells are still pumping but there are disturbing reports of "peak brown ale" (EEK)

Never mind, you can always take a position on Amber or Exhibition!

scorcher
19th February 2010, 15:16
We had test drilling here a few years back and some were hoping that the 'black gold' found was a version of Liffey water but alas it proved to be oil.

China hand
19th February 2010, 18:34
To late, Bob me old gringo mate... Cisco the Cyber Spy has already entered up all the ultra sensitive British naval intelligence disclosed in this thread in his 2010 copy of Janes and is off to Armada HQ with it while you sleep......

:)

Pssst! I've got a photomatographic image of the British Meat Boat "Brazil Star" alongside Frigorifico Anglo in Bs As. Hot stuff, what? Beware! Docksides have ears.(POP)

AncientBrit
19th February 2010, 19:02
Pssst! I've got a photomatographic image of the British Meat Boat "Brazil Star" alongside Frigorifico Anglo in Bs As. Hot stuff, what? Beware! Docksides have ears.(POP)

Gringo, that has to be worth 2 peso's and a date with my younger brother.(Thumb)

Cutsplice
19th February 2010, 20:33
It will be interesting to see which oil majors explore for oil around the Falklands. As I recall during the 1982 conflict two of the multi national oil companies who had vessels under the British flag declined to send any of their vessels to the Falkland Is. Reason given to our Governess of the day was that they had major interests in Argentina, if seen to aid the task force there was a possibility that their interests would be seized by the Argentinians.
This fact was kept quiet by both the oil companies and the goverment of the uk, to date its still a semi secret.

Cisco
19th February 2010, 20:47
It will be interesting to see which oil majors explore for oil around the Falklands. As I recall during the 1982 conflict two of the multi national oil companies who had vessels under the British flag declined to send any of their vessels to the Falkland Is. Reason given to our Governess of the day was that they had major interests in Argentina, if seen to aid the task force there was a possibility that their interests would be seized by the Argentinians.

That doesn't seem to have bothered Barclays Bank http://en.mercopress.com/2010/02/11/barclays-argentina-s-debt-swap-operator-accused-of-oil-interests-in-falklands

Lots more bonzer very top secret sensitive stuff here http://en.mercopress.com/falkland-islands

sparkie2182
19th February 2010, 21:12
With all those oilmen and sailors around, the sheep will be ok for a few quid.

Thats another Story
19th February 2010, 21:55
share it or sell the rights to the US and buy the oil off them.

Lancastrian
19th February 2010, 23:33
It will be interesting to see which oil majors explore for oil around the Falklands. As I recall during the 1982 conflict two of the multi national oil companies who had vessels under the British flag declined to send any of their vessels to the Falkland Is. Reason given to our Governess of the day was that they had major interests in Argentina, if seen to aid the task force there was a possibility that their interests would be seized by the Argentinians.
This fact was kept quiet by both the oil companies and the goverment of the uk, to date its still a semi secret.


So why dont you name them? If they had been requisitioned, they wouldnt have had any choice in the matter.

paullad1984
20th February 2010, 09:51
Heres a relatively cheap idea, with egypt wishing to sell whimbrel and zenith, why doesnt the RN buy them, do the refit they both need, man them with ex RN personel and send them down as convoy escorts?
Il take my tongue of my cheek now.

Cisco
20th February 2010, 10:03
share it or sell the rights to the US and buy the oil off them.

I may be mistaken ( I'm never wrong but I'm frequently mistaken) but I don't think it is Pommie oil ( if and when they find it ) . I think it is Falkland oil... Falkland oil for the Falklanders etc... they do have some sort of government down there.... I'm not sure what level of autonomy it enjoys.

Cisco
20th February 2010, 10:27
Getting back to the original thread... most of the sea traffic between Argentina and the Falklands is the cruise liners sailing from Ushuaia to Stanley. http://en.mercopress.com/2010/02/20/tierra-del-fuego-prepares-to-implement-falklands-maritime-traffic-decree
Turn up the heat on them and they would be more than welcome in Punta Arenas... talk about shooting yourself in the foot........ again.

Santos
20th February 2010, 11:07
I may be mistaken ( I'm never wrong but I'm frequently mistaken) but I don't think it is Pommie oil ( if and when they find it ) . I think it is Falkland oil... Falkland oil for the Falklanders etc... they do have some sort of government down there.... I'm not sure what level of autonomy it enjoys.

The Falkland Islands are a United Kingdom Overseas Territory by choice. Supreme authority is vested in Her Majesty The Queen and exercised by a Governor Mr Alan Huckle, on her behalf, with the advice and assistance of the Executive Council and Legislative Assembly.

The Legislative Assembly is empowered to pass legislation for the peace, order and good government of the Falkland Islands, subject to the approval of Her Majesty the Queen, acting through her Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs.


Our oil then I think, whilst it remains an UK Overseas Territory. (Thumb)


Chris

James_C
20th February 2010, 11:32
Chris,
From personal experience I can guarantee you that the Islanders see it VERY differently - and quite rightly so.

Santos
20th February 2010, 12:05
James,

I certainly dont disagree with the islanders benefiting from the oil, good luck to them, I hope it brings them prosperity - its the idea that everyone else except us benefits and we end up suffering from lack of oil and energy through mismanagement as we appear to be now - reliant on other countries for our energy supplies and subject to their high pricing - is totally unacceptable as far as I am concerned. Let the islanders benefit and us too, thats what I am saying.

Chris.

AncientBrit
20th February 2010, 12:48
"- its the idea that everyone else except us benefits and we end up suffering from lack of oil and energy through mismanagement as we appear to be now -"
And holding your breath till you turn blue wont do any good either.(Jester)
What happened to all the North Sea oil? Surely you cant have used that up yet.
That sounds like the good old Imperial "we and us" attitude that figures that because you elected a shower of inept buffoons who seem hell bent on turning you into a Third World country it is your God given right to make up for your own short-comings by taking from colonials.
Wrong again honey! When you joined the EEC you kissed them off. Remember?

Lancastrian
20th February 2010, 13:35
"- When you joined the EEC you kissed them off. Remember?

Not quite. Despite the best efforts of the Foreign Office, we held on to this bit. I'm sure we will be happy to share the oil revenues after they have made a suitable contribution to the defence bill.

macrae
20th February 2010, 15:04
Oil is going to rocket in price! It has started already.We are rapidly burning it up at an ever increasing rate.

The the so called developed world is more or less bankrupt, owing trillions and trillions of dollars

The West sold off or closed down most their factory and business for cash, making cash the commodity which would keep us all on easy street,especially the UK

The heroes of the day were the bankers who gambled the lot and LOST.

In the mean time India ,Chine and Brazil etc industralized and sold us what we were no longer capable of producing, Made lots of cash

They are now the new industrial power bases of the world, sucking in ever increasing millions of barrels of oil. Their citizens wealth is increasing to the point where they can now afford cars.

The oil crisis is here, this small planet has not much of it left.

Even if there was enough oil left and most of the world citizens had cars, the sh..te let into the atmosphere would blot out the suns light,
Global warming? there would be no warming !

In the meantime humanity, being what it is, will go to war.
Especially the old colonial land grabbers.

We are all DOOMED unless we start solving problems on a world perspective and not narrow national ones :sweat:

paullad1984
20th February 2010, 15:15
Sadly there is no readily available substitute for plastics, and what is plastic made from boys and girls? yes youve guessed it, oil.

Santos
20th February 2010, 15:23
"- its the idea that everyone else except us benefits and we end up suffering from lack of oil and energy through mismanagement as we appear to be now -"
And holding your breath till you turn blue wont do any good either.(Jester)
What happened to all the North Sea oil? Surely you cant have used that up yet.
That sounds like the good old Imperial "we and us" attitude that figures that because you elected a shower of inept buffoons who seem hell bent on turning you into a Third World country it is your God given right to make up for your own short-comings by taking from colonials.
Wrong again honey! When you joined the EEC you kissed them off. Remember?

Just thought I would let you know Mr Ancient Brit that I didnt vote for the present set of baffoons nor did I vote for entry into the EEC - so dont make wild accusations - hiding as you are in Canada. You are way out of order with your remarks.

joebuckham
20th February 2010, 15:28
Sadly there is no readily available substitute for plastics, and what is plastic made from boys and girls? yes youve guessed it, oil.

bioplastics( degradable as well) are, and have been available, for some time now(Thumb)

AncientBrit
20th February 2010, 15:40
Just thought I would let you know Mr Ancient Brit that I didnt vote for the present set of baffoons nor did I vote for entry into the EEC - so dont make wild accusations - hiding as you are in Canada. You are way out of order with your remarks.

Just thought I'd give you the colonial take on this. However, you may be right.....Go ahead, hold your breath.(Smoke)

paullad1984
20th February 2010, 17:38
never heard of bio-plastics, never came up at school!

China hand
20th February 2010, 18:12
Gringo, that has to be worth 2 peso's and a date with my younger brother.(Thumb)

Quidadito! He viviendo ANOS en la Argentina!!(K)

AncientBrit
20th February 2010, 18:25
Quidadito! He viviendo ANOS en la Argentina!!(K)

Compramiso! You have most likely met my younger brother then.(Jester)

scorcher
20th February 2010, 18:52
[QUOTE=macrae;403741]

A fuel crisis is here, this small planet has not much of it left.

No doubt some time later this century China/Russia/the United States/India
maybe the EU??? will export our appetite for war to secure raw materials
out into our Solar System. Maybe there are no inhabitants out there because they are advanced enough to know us and have moved elsewhere?(EEK)

Cisco
20th February 2010, 19:54
James,

I certainly dont disagree with the islanders benefiting from the oil, good luck to them, I hope it brings them prosperity - its the idea that everyone else except us benefits and we end up suffering from lack of oil and energy through mismanagement as we appear to be now - reliant on other countries for our energy supplies and subject to their high pricing - is totally unacceptable as far as I am concerned. Let the islanders benefit and us too, thats what I am saying.

Chris.

A very Argentinian viewpoint and so well expressed :)

Cutsplice
20th February 2010, 20:40
So why dont you name them? If they had been requisitioned, they wouldnt have had any choice in the matter.

I was employed by one of the oil companies at the time, when I left their employment I signed a legal undertaking that I would not in the future divulge information which would or could be damaging to them. They also signed the same undertaking to state they would not divulge information concerning me which could or would be considered damaging to me. These multi national companies can be strange employers in certain ways.
The clue to the companies could lie in the simplistic style of their names. Why did we not requisition them at the time ? well the answer may well lie with the goverment of the day, would they do anything that would upset their friends, I think not.

macrae
21st February 2010, 01:30
Stein a few years ago we had our own passports here on the Isle of Wight as a tourist gimmick ! Next time it could be for real if we declare independence after the oil (which IS here) is exploited. As far as the sheep are concerned there are moves afoot to arm them as a militia when the 'Texas Tea' is brewed. I would appreciate your discretion in this matter as it is an highly sensitive issue at present.

Other islands which could consider independence are the Shetlands and Orkneys
they already have the oil on their door step.( and we in the Highlands could join them too since we have the whisky,tourist and oil supply industries ) (Thumb)

That would really make the independence party in Scotland look a bit silly since their political slogan was ....ITS Scotlands OIL... [=P]

scorcher
21st February 2010, 10:32
Other islands which could consider independence are the Shetlands and Orkneys
they already have the oil on their door step.( and we in the Highlands could join them too since we have the whisky,tourist and oil supply industries ) (Thumb)

That would really make the independence party in Scotland look a bit silly since their political slogan was ....ITS Scotlands OIL... [=P]

Should I ever serve on any future Independence committee I would suggest
a proviso that we could re-join the mainland when the oil runs out !(A)

Hawkeye
22nd February 2010, 01:49
Fear not. We still have plenty of pedalos, water wings, canal barges, sailing dinghies, kayaks and canoes.
What's more both the Argentinian cruisers - the GRAPEFRUIT SGAMENTOS amd the FRAY BENTOS SUPERBOS are undergoing the third of their 20 year refits so are not available for another 2 years.

I have six kayaks at hand. When do I send them south?

Hawkeye
22nd February 2010, 01:53
Since the end of 1982 do we really have the manpower & ships to defend an invasion of the Isle of Wight?

I thought the Isle of Wight gets 'invaded' every year. (Some big festival?) And all the yachts should be able to handle the defence of the island.

Cutsplice
22nd February 2010, 20:08
If the Falklanders claim independence and the oil we can always claim we put the oil there before we put them there. They may then claim that they are not geographically linked to the UK, but could they prove it ?.

SN NewsCaster
23rd February 2010, 04:40
Latin American and Caribbean leaders agree to support Argentina over sovereignty of the Falkland Islands, reports say.

More from BBC News... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/news/int/search/news%2Bsport/ship/-/2/hi/americas/8529605.stm)

Pat Thompson
23rd February 2010, 06:50
Greetings,

Well they would wouldn't they

slick
23rd February 2010, 07:42
All,
Most South American Countries to my recall enjoy Argentina's discomfort especially about territorial ambitions and footballing failures.
As for Chile I seem to recall that they enjoy with Argentina the longest minefield in the world, 1400 miles, (this has not been Googled and is merely gossip).
Why won't Argentina press her case militarily?, it is called the ARA General Belgrano effect.


Yours aye,


slick

Cisco
23rd February 2010, 08:38
Don't we already have two threads on the go about the Malvinas?
I think that is what one may call a 'selective report'. The last I heard the Chileans had an interest in the drilling...

I don't think the minefield runs the whole frontier but they certainly had plenty up around the Atacama desert and also in southern Patagonia and TdF..even Isla de Hornos was well mined.

Lets see, Argentinian border dispute with Chile in about 1900... Chile 1, Argentina 0. Argentinian dispute with Chile about 1980ish over the islands east of the Beagle, Chile 1, Argentina 0. Malvinas bustup in 1982, UK 1, Argentina 0.
Got to give them full marks for trying....

lesbryan
23rd February 2010, 09:52
Argentina are skint (more than us).But we have two thousand troops down there.With quite an arsenal .Probably a naval presence under the depths especially now with all the Sabra rattling they are doing .I do not think there would be any backing from Chile and definitely none from Venezuela

R58484956
23rd February 2010, 11:43
Chile is very pro-British.

chadburn
23rd February 2010, 12:23
Chile is very pro-British.

Thank God they were and still are, without their help we would have been in some difficulty in 1982.

China hand
23rd February 2010, 14:31
Surely the French have first claim? Les Malouines from St Malo??(A)

Santos
23rd February 2010, 16:55
Argentina are skint (more than us).But we have two thousand troops down there.With quite an arsenal .Probably a naval presence under the depths especially now with all the Sabra rattling they are doing .I do not think there would be any backing from Chile and definitely none from Venezuela

Oh yes there is HERE (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8529969.stm)

ddraigmor
23rd February 2010, 17:35
The rumblings of the Argies are more economic desires rather than some grandiose nationalist intent. Argentina would like a share of the oil and a large slice of the pie that goes with it. The potential exists for conflict. Unfortunately - as we know - oil is one of the greatest catalysts for conflict known to man.

Do the Argies have the political and military capacity for an invasion?

The answer to that is probably not, as they no longer have an aircraft carrier and their only landing ship has been scrapped. The only ships they have that could land troops and equipment are a small number of LSL types - slow moving, easy prey for aircraft and subs.. However, they still maintain a credible submarine capability as well as four destroyers and around ten corvettes of fairly modern design and fit.

The Argentine Air Force still has around 50 A-4 Skyhawk and Mirage sub-types, as well as nine Exocet armed Super Etendard’s. These aircraft may be old in comparison the RAF Typhoon’s, but they still pose a significant threat to shipping, as do the handful of P-3B Orion’s they operate. Having said that, the rig and the Type 42 and other ships we have down there could be taken out by Exocet as a first strike.

The only really significant deterrent the Typhoon could provide, if it could be integrated, is the AGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missile. This, and a robust submarine force would seriously curtail any Argentine designs.

Unfortunately, and herein lies the crux, the only aircraft in the RAF inventory able to carry the Harpoon is the Nimrod. The powers that be have announced that the MR.2 variant will be withdrawn this year as a cost saving measure, and its replacement, the MRA.4, will not be operational until around 2012. The US 'Rivet Joint' three aircraft deal the RAF are due to lease will not be in service until 2011 - 12 and even then will not fly with a total RAF crew but with key US personnel aboard to teach the systems - but even if we had it for ISR, it is not able to carry the Harpoon so is - in this case - less effective than the aircraft it is replacing.

We should be strengthening the current force in the islands and we may well already have a couple of 'nukes' silently in the depths - but with Argentina extending its territorial waters almost to infinity, we should not relax our suspicion of the intent shouted out by them.

Jonty

Lancastrian
23rd February 2010, 19:29
Surely the French have first claim? Les Malouines from St Malo??(A)

No, they sold their interest to the Spanish. Agentina's claim is based on inheritance from Spain.

SN NewsCaster
24th February 2010, 17:50
Greater diplomatic support for Argentina's claim over the Falklands/Malvinas has forced the UK to work harder to justify its refusal to discuss sovereignty, says the BBC's Paul Reynolds.

More from BBC News... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/news/int/search/news%2Bsport/ship/-/2/hi/americas/8534901.stm)

ddraigmor
24th February 2010, 17:52
Argentina has also extended its 'territorial waters' out to 2000 miles from the mainland.

Now if that is not intent, what is?

Jonty

Coastie
24th February 2010, 17:58
You'd have thought they'd have learned their lesson last time. Have the Argentinians got some kind of internal crisis back home which needs attention diverting away from, so pick Britain over the Falklands again?

Billieboy
24th February 2010, 18:52
Now the Argies have plenty of sea room, that can be used for chucking people out of aeroplanes!

ssr481
24th February 2010, 18:54
You'd have thought they'd have learned their lesson last time. Have the Argentinians got some kind of internal crisis back home which needs attention diverting away from, so pick Britain over the Falklands again?

Um..yeah... to put it bluntly, their economy is tanking out bigtime.. a contact of mine down there is finding it very tough to make ends meet for he and his family.. the recent economic troubles no doubt have caused things to get worse in Argentina.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
25th February 2010, 10:29
Don't we already have two threads on the go about the Malvinas?
I think that is what one may call a 'selective report'. The last I heard the Chileans had an interest in the drilling...

I don't think the minefield runs the whole frontier but they certainly had plenty up around the Atacama desert and also in southern Patagonia and TdF..even Isla de Hornos was well mined.

Lets see, Argentinian border dispute with Chile in about 1900... Chile 1, Argentina 0. Argentinian dispute with Chile about 1980ish over the islands east of the Beagle, Chile 1, Argentina 0. Malvinas bustup in 1982, UK 1, Argentina 0.
Got to give them full marks for trying....

I have to declare an interest; I have a 15 year old son who wants to join the Navy or the RFA. We therefore have a family interest in there being a Royal Navy and an RFA for him to join. There is a Defence review coming up shortly and the Army are snaffling all the cash... so we need a good reason to keep the Navy up to strength.

The best guarantee of this is lots of huffing and puffing from Argentina, so let's have a rousing chorus of

"Don't give up yet, Argentina...!" (Thumb)

Klaatu83
25th February 2010, 16:06
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article7039980.ece

According to THE TIMES, The Falkland Islands' sole newspaper is currently under "Cyber Attack" from Argentina. As if that weren't bad enough, the Islanders are also being subjected to a veritable barrage of rude telephone calls from the mainland. Is there no limit to the depths to which the dastardly Dons will not descend?

ssr481
25th February 2010, 16:16
As of now, the Penguin News site is okay...

http://www.penguin-news.com/

Interesting article from the Times. I was just in contact with one of the Government Officers in South Georgia, who puts Argentina's latest tantrum down to distracting the populous from an economy that's in the tank and wanting to hop on the oil bandwagon after the hard work is done.. put simply, the Argentines need the hard cash the oil will bring..

Stevo
25th February 2010, 17:25
Brazil's premier is only backing the Argies as he is vying for a place on th UN Security Council and this gives Brazil a platform to showcase their clout. Venezuela are very close with the Russians arnt they? I think this could go on for a while. Apparently in one down Market tabloid today, the RN had to warn away the Argentine corvette Drummond from encrouching close to the Islands. The paper also stated the corvette was no match for the RN destroyer. Hmmm! That vintage corvette carries Exocet!!!

AncientBrit
25th February 2010, 18:42
You have to watch out for those women leaders. She only recently watched the movie, The Mouse That Roared. She noticed the improvement of the standard of living in the Falkland Isles compared to that in the Argentine and decided she wants in on the action. Now she just has to get the UK to declare war on her and she's home free!.(Jester)

goldeneye
25th February 2010, 18:51
This incident between HMS York and ARA Drummond couldn't have come at a more sensitive time for both governments. Is it possible that the Argentine crew
did make a mistake with a navigational error- some people would question that. I believe that the situation could get very political.

ddraigmor
25th February 2010, 20:55
Navigational error? My word, these Navy types do appear to have problems with nav....didn't some of ours have a nav error not so long ago in the Gulf - and look what happened there!

Jonty

Klaatu83
25th February 2010, 21:18
Brazil's premier is only backing the Argies as he is vying for a place on th UN Security Council and this gives Brazil a platform to showcase their clout. Venezuela are very close with the Russians arnt they? I think this could go on for a while. Apparently in one down Market tabloid today, the RN had to warn away the Argentine corvette Drummond from encrouching close to the Islands. The paper also stated the corvette was no match for the RN destroyer. Hmmm! That vintage corvette carries Exocet!!!

THE SUN, in their inimitable fashion (they only just stopped short of quoting "Heats Of Oak"), described the the incident as "The First head-to-head of the Falklands row" in which the Argentine warship was "sent packing". They also claim that the Argentine corvette was "spotted...sailing alongside a French fleet". Shades of Trafalgar!

AncientBrit
26th February 2010, 01:57
The French never have forgiven England for BBQ'ing Jean d'Arc.

Cisco
26th February 2010, 06:21
This will be fun..... http://en.mercopress.com/2010/02/25/repsol-ypf-to-explore-for-oil-in-malvinas-waters-at-the-end-of-2010
YPF to drill 200 miles east of Argentina's continental coastline....

I've just laid it orf on the chart... its 180 miles NE from Staten Island to the nearest Falkland's land... and 260 miles from Cabo Virgenes .... golly (EEK)

Talk about calling the pommie bluff.....

Lancastrian
26th February 2010, 08:22
Not sure who is trying to bluff whom. If its 150 - 200 miles west of the Ocean Guardian, its not in the Falklands maritime zone.
Also not sure why everyone is getting so excited. It was reported on a BBC scientific programme yesterday that even if Desire Petroleum find what they hope to, the most that is ever likely to be extracted amounts to four day's worth of global consumption.

Cisco
26th February 2010, 09:13
"It will drill about 200 miles off Argentine coast by December, “well within Argentinean waters” said the corporation’s CEO Antonio Brufau...........
He added the fields were about 150 to 200 miles west of where the “Ocean Guardian” is drilling"

All a bit contradictory really unless Ocean Guardian is drilling 200 miles *east* of Las Malvinas... which is well and truly off the shelf..which only extends about 20 miles in that direction...

I'm not getting excited... best I don't given my situation... but others including the Argentine guvment and the editor of The Sun seem to be...

Lancastrian
26th February 2010, 09:51
Ocean Guardian is apparently 60 miles north of Stanley. As you say the report is contradictory and we can never be quite sure what is meant by "Argentine waters".

Andrew Craig-Bennett
26th February 2010, 10:19
I think it will be entirely safe to assume that we have a Persian Gulf situation here and not a North Sea situation - by which I mean that in the North Sea where a reservoir lies across a boundary between 200 mile limits the nations concerned talk about it like grown ups and in the Arabian Gulf (see, I'm PC, I used both terms in the same sentence!) where a reservoir lies across the boundary each side gets on with pumping it as fast as possible.

The shining example is Qatar North Dome most of which is in Iranian waters which the Iranians cannot exploit as well as they would like because of the embargo on them. So Qatar is making hay...

If there is anything there, there will be a scramble to exploit it.

Cisco
26th February 2010, 10:33
Ocean Guardian is apparently 60 miles north of Stanley. As you say the report is contradictory and we can never be quite sure what is meant by "Argentine waters".

That would suggest that the Argentinians plan to drill on the edge of the shelf due east of Puerto Deseado... rather ironic that with the translation being Port Desire.

Last winter they were drilling offshore of west coast TdF so no big deal with this one.... they aren't really pushing the envelope.. another press beat up

Klaatu83
26th February 2010, 13:00
The French never have forgiven England for BBQ'ing Jean d'Arc.

It's not BBQ'ing Joan of Arc that the French minded so much as the fact that the English exhibited such poor taste as to accompany the act with a wine inappropriate to the occasion. In France one always serves red wine at an immolation!

China hand
26th February 2010, 18:18
It's not BBQ'ing Joan of Arc that the French minded so much as the fact that the English exhibited such poor taste as to accompany the act with a wine inappropriate to the occasion. In France one always serves red wine at an immolation!

At last, a modicum of intelligence in the whole shebang.

Useless comment: I sailed with a Falkland born 2nd Mate who went to great lengths (beerilly) to explain that the Islas Malvinas were so called because of the "bad winds". Hmm.(K)

Landour
28th February 2010, 21:21
Having lived in the Falklands for the last 2 years and got to know the people very well we find all the hype in the media rather bemusing. The press in the UK and Argentina certainly loved the story. If one were to believe reports a re-run of the war of 1982 was on the stocks. In 28 years of relative peace they have not heard such talk of military action. Certainly they have not spoken about it much among themselves, perhaps because merely contemplating anything like 1982 is too painful. The truth is that there is a threat and for 28 years Britain has maintained a potent force in the islands. The MOD and Treasury would love to do away with the Falkland defence budget completely or partially by withdrawing from the Falklands. 3 warships, four Typhoons, assorted other aircraft and front line troops don't come cheap. They do not withdraw them because they know there is a threat. By whipping up such passions Argentina has done us a huge favour. Their toothless rhetoric has remined the world that the South Atlantic is a potential flashpoint. However already the deep depression centred over the South Atlantic has moved on and the ominous swell that rocked that strange steel structure anchored off the Falklands has calmed. In the long run peace and co-operation will probably only be secured by talking to Argentina and probably through concessions so long as it does not compromise the freedom of the Falkland Islanders.
As for their plans to restrict shipping, they do not seem to to be coming into fruition. The Star Princess sailed from Buenos Aires for the Falklands without a demand for a permit from the authorities along with several other smaller cruise ships.

Tomvart
3rd March 2010, 20:23
I think were all agreed that this is Argentinian sabre rattling because they are skint! This is cyclic behaviour from Argentina, something that we should be used to as they have been at it periodically since the Union flag was first raised over the Islands on 3rd January 1833!
HM Ships York, Clyde and RFA Wave Ruler are a token symbol of defence - placed there to satiate the public - IF the Argentinians decide on the same course as '82, (which is unlikely at the moment), they will need to be more aware of what they cannot see - running silent and deep - platforms which have more than likely been watching the sea lanes off Argentina for weeks if not months now. That’s the real deterrent, not the ships.
However -the RN will need to start dusting off its mothballed ASW teams, equipment and skills if they are going to operate in a potentially hostile ASW environment.
I also don’t think Exocet poses as big a threat as was presented to the Task Force of '82 - as Anti ship missile technology has moved on significantly since Sheffield, Atlantic Conveyor and Glamorgan came to grief at the hands of A/M38 (which I think some of the older Argentinean ships still have in the inventory).
Let’s hope this drags the press and politicians unhealthy focus away from the Middle East.

Tom

Lancastrian
4th March 2010, 10:08
"since the Union flag was first raised over the Islands on 3rd January 1833!"

Actually 1765 or possibly 1592, though that flag would have been different.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Falkland_Islands#Early_colonisation

Cisco
4th March 2010, 20:57
Gleaned from last week's economist.... If Argentina wants to go back to 1833 what is now southern Argentina would be an independent indigenous state....

Billieboy
5th March 2010, 08:04
Gleaned from last week's economist.... If Argentina wants to go back to 1833 what is now southern Argentina would be an independent indigenous state....

That would belong to Wales!

Cisco
8th March 2010, 21:15
This says it all ...
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/03/04/what-can-argentina-gain-from-another-falklands-dispute

Cisco
2nd April 2010, 15:50
Ho Hum... time to break out my new ensign and show the flag etc etc...

http://en.mercopress.com/2010/04/02/argentina-to-see-biggest-anti-british-protests-for-years

edited to add...note that previous marches involved 'several hundred people'... in a country of 40 odd million... hohum..

China hand
24th May 2010, 18:30
Wonderful stirring stuff: "Al Gran Pueblo Argentino, Salud " (boomdadoom)(Applause)

Andrew Craig-Bennett
25th May 2010, 06:46
Thank you, Madame Kirchner; please keep up the good work - we have a Defence Review coming up!

slick
25th May 2010, 07:27
All,
Independence Day (Cinciento de Mayo?) 25th. May 200th. Anniversary of the founding of Argentina.

Yours aye,

slick

Billieboy
25th May 2010, 08:27
All,
Independence Day (Cinciento de Mayo?) 25th. May 200th. Anniversary of the founding of Argentina.

Yours aye,

slick

That's the name of the Argentine Carrier, ex KNMS "Karel Dorman".

Hawkeye
25th May 2010, 23:47
That's the name of the Argentine Carrier, ex KNMS "Karel Dorman".

The Karel Doorman was renamed Veinticinco de Mayo.

Cisco
26th May 2010, 00:02
That's the name of the Argentine Carrier, ex KNMS "Karel Dorman".

Past tense... *was the name*

Old 'plastic face' Kirchner is making daily noises re the Falklands... must be an election in the wind and last I looked her popularity had seriously tanked....

Currently she has trade disputes with Uruguay and Brasil, border disputes with UK and Chile ( the southern ice cap) , only neighbour she isn't bluing with is Paraguay.....

The Argentinian Navy? Give me a break.. they can't even differentiate between a bulkie and a tanker... http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/231557/title/laid-up-bulkers-/cat/all

Billieboy
26th May 2010, 06:32
The Karel Doorman was renamed Veinticinco de Mayo.

Whoops, sorry Hawkeye, I should have checked. I knew it was 'something' de Mayo!

slick
26th May 2010, 14:08
All,
Thank you to Hawkeye I knew it was something like that.

Yours aye,


slick

ssr481
26th May 2010, 14:33
Thank you, Madame Kirchner; please keep up the good work - we have a Defence Review coming up!

The same could be said to Kim Dumb Il in North Korea.. many are saying it was his bright idea to torpedo the South Korean frigate (and they found parts of the torpedo with NK markings) ..

Korean War, take 2

sidsal
26th May 2010, 21:39
Latest news:
The Argentinian cruisers Grapefruit Segmentos and Fray Bentos Superbos have just sailed from BA for an unknown destination, possibly Port Stanley.
It is reported that various pedalos, kayaks and windsurfers have sailed from the Falklands to repel them.
Reuters: 2100 GMT 26.5.2010

Cisco
5th June 2010, 23:19
It looks like the argentinian sabre is a bit rusty...http://en.mercopress.com/2010/06/04/falklands-thick-fog-forces-two-raf-typhoons-and-tanker-to-land-in-punta-arenas
Its all about taking attention of the fact that sugar in the supermercados is rationed to 1 kg per customer and you are lucky to find butter....

I loved it the other day when Argentina was giving advice to Greece re how to handle the IMF....