Anchoring - no discernable tide or wind

Archie2009
18th February 2010, 01:51
Hi,

Anchored for the first time in my last trip. Very rare thing on old steam turbine LNG carriers as we keep steaming in circles off port burning gas. Before I get off the track; We anchored off Brunei. Very light winds. Month was October. The NE monsoon had not set in as yet. Tide was flooding and the rate was very marginal. Direction SEly. Max range was 0.7m. No swell. No other ships at anchorage to find out which direction to head to before dropping the hook. So headed west and dropped. What happened was that she swung round to 359 over the next 3 hours before she finally settled there.

What would you have done?

smithax
18th February 2010, 16:44
In my humble opinion you did nothing wrong, negligble current, 90 deg swing in 3hrs - all OK and reasonable. I'm assuming the cable was "stretched out" by going gently astern.

Fujairah can be worse, loads of ships all pointing in different directions not a lot of help either.

Sounds like a good job done.(Thumb)

S

Archie2009
20th February 2010, 11:46
Thanks S. Another question. While heaving up, say that there is a lot of weight on the cable, but the windlass is still picking up. Would you give a kick ahead or let the windlass do the work giving a kick only when the windlass cannot lift at all?

Hugh Ferguson
20th February 2010, 22:00
Anchoring a ship and how one does it depends on many factors as well as tide and wind. The size of the ship and whether fully laden or bung light.
The larger the ship the more important all these factors become.
I don't quite understand what had been expected in this instance-were you indeed surprised that the ship swung through ninety degrees after anchoring?

pilot
21st February 2010, 11:01
Should Master's Orals now permit a candidate to 'phone a friend? Can't believe this thread!

AGAMEMNON
21st February 2010, 11:57
I too am unsure what this thread seeks to establish. I think what it shows is too much book-learning and not enough time learning the trade through observation and mentoring! Much seamanship turns out quite unpredictable in reality.

Billieboy
21st February 2010, 12:02
Should Master's Orals now permit a candidate to 'phone a friend? Can't believe this thread!

Modern times, pilot! you wouldn't believe the basic engineering question that I've been asked, by senior engineers with double digit years at sea.

ROBERT HENDERSON
21st February 2010, 12:39
I too am unsure what this thread seeks to establish. I think what it shows is too much book-learning and not enough time learning the trade through observation and mentoring! Much seamanship turns out quite unpredictable in reality.

You have hit the head on the nail [=P] One of the problems with trying to learn all seamanship from a book, is the fact that nobody has taught the bloody ship to read, so that it knows what it is supposed to do. (Jester) (Jester)

Regards Robert

Billieboy
21st February 2010, 13:44
You have hit the head on the nail [=P] One of the problems with trying to learn all seamanship from a book, is the fact that nobody has taught the bloody ship to read, so that it knows what it is supposed to do. (Jester) (Jester)

Regards Robert

There is also the problem Robert, that there are not enough experienced seafarers afloat, on not enough ships, to teach the unbelievably few crew who have NO spare time to learn anything other than standard watch-keeping; if they have time to do that!

smithax
22nd February 2010, 14:14
Chaps, some one has asked a question and is entitled to a reasonable answer, not a load of "things aren't what they used to be" etc

It is not new that people do not have practical experience of handling ships until they get Command. The first time I drove any ship was a loaded VLCC leaving a Singapore anchorage, and that was 15 years ago. I never received practical advice on ship handling from any Master. Remember the C/Os position was always up forward when mooring or anchoring, not on the bridge where he could have learnt something. (It was in my experience anyway)

Archie
If the chain is coming in just let the windlass do the work, if you use the ME you could overshoot the anchor and cause yourself more grief. Kick only if the windlass con't bring the chain in.

Send me an email, if you prefer, if you have any more questions.

pilot
22nd February 2010, 15:23
From at least the '70s the Ch. Mate's station onboard Mobil Tankers was on the bridge. Use of Grenoble Manned Model Courses and Simulators for Chief Mates prior promotion to Master ensured that the very basics of anchoring and making a lee could be carried. Yes the making of a lee is an unkown procedure with some Masters too.

smithax
22nd February 2010, 16:28
Pilot

Did the C/O get hands on experience, or was it a watch and learn exercise. I know it would vary Master to Master but generally

S

pilot
23rd February 2010, 08:01
Sailed with Masters who would very much let you get on with it and assist as required. Was with 2 masters and it was watch and learn. Often watched in wonderment and learnt what not to do, but this also served a purpose. One quickly learnt that shiphandling and excitement are not ideal companions.

Another Mobil trait was the 3rd Mate would be on stations ford, with 2nd Mate aft. My previous Company, Brocklebanks had the more traditional attitudes.

In my final years with Mobil/IMT onboard training for Shiphandling was more formalised and was included in Mates assesments.

I appreciate that this onboard training does not make you an expert, but it does prepare you for the day when you have no dial a prayer at hand. In a Pilotage Service with over 100 pilots, a trainee pilot will "learn" countless methods of doing the same job whilst his initial training is gone through. Usualy fine tuning the methods he's most happy with for his own usage when authorised.

Billieboy
23rd February 2010, 11:00
I had the dubious honour of having to tidy up after a bad anchoring operation. Big and small repairs to Chain lockers, cables transported all over Europe after phone calls at midnight, 2,3 and 6am on Fridays Saturdays and Sundays. Anchor weights from 22tonnes downwards, swivels and long links everywhere! then there was the time that a cable had been scrapped, but the blacksmith had put it back in the chain locker with the new cable attached!

Anchors, a bloody nightmare and it's always raining and blowing when you're on the fo'c'sl head!

Andrew Craig-Bennett
26th February 2010, 11:31
A hobby horse of mine, here.

I believe that, on big ships, the Doppler log readout should be immediately adjacent to the DGPS readout, anchoring and mooring for the purposes of.

It very seldom is!

If it is, you can determine what is actually going on, in the conditions described in the original post.

uk083590
30th March 2010, 02:13
I spent a long time in UK dredgers and there it was the OOW normally who did the anchoring, picking up pilots etc, being thrown in at the deepend was a steep learning curve

Charlie Stitt
30th March 2010, 15:01
Archie, the first thing I would do in that situation, would be to put a big smile on my face as I had an uncluttered anchorage, all to myself, rare. Having decided how many shackles to put out, stem the tide and let go. If there is little or no strength in the tide to carry the ship back, then give her a kick astern to stretch the cable to desired length, then screw up tight. As I am now well past my sell by date, I find it INTERESTING, to anchor my old 10 meter motor cruiser in a cluttered yacht anchorage, especially if there is an offshore wind, and the bottom is steep shelving.

Blue in Bim
30th March 2010, 16:01
Could do a lot worse. I remember the story of a big tanker off Curacao deciding to anchor and letting go the first anchor only to see the thing run all the way and then pop it out of the locker as the water was a little deep for anchoring. Not content with that the second anchor was let go with similar results !

Naytikos
31st March 2010, 07:28
I joined one VLCC shortly after the owner's cousin had done a trip as master, his previous experience having been with traditional general cargo ships of around 5000grt. Dropping anchor off Fos-sur-mer (Port de Bouc, if you like) he apparently stopped engines (twin, variable pitch props, so 'stop' meant 'zero pitch' but the propellors continued turning) and waited until he thought the ship was dead in the water. Then he let go.
The resultant deformation of the bulkhead in the starboard chain locker was unbelievable.

Same ship, same anchor, some years later, and both hydraulic motors driving the windlass lunched themselves while trying to leave the berth in Oita in extremely cold weather. We eventually got off the berth on the engines alone (no tugs), dragged the anchor into deep water and sailed to Tokyo Bay with a draft of 7 shackles!

Billieboy
31st March 2010, 08:25
A hobby horse of mine, here.

I believe that, on big ships, the Doppler log readout should be immediately adjacent to the DGPS readout, anchoring and mooring for the purposes of.

It very seldom is!

If it is, you can determine what is actually going on, in the conditions described in the original post.

I have to agree Andrew, it's long been my opinion that NO vessel over 90K dwt should be at sea without a Doppler log. What's more there should be questions in Mates and Masters orals covering safe practice using a Doppler log when anchoring.

One anchoring operation I remember was a 400+K dwt VLCC which lost it's main engines and all steam at 8kts in the Dover straits, the cheng tried to walk out the anchors on air, (they would not free fall), got them into half a shackle and then could not release the clutch, kept on walking and then they caught ground and started to hold a bit until she came to a stop. Saved the ship, and a big patch of oil that would have broken governments. Two very big tugs snatched one anchor each and parked her in Rotterdam Deep for a fortnight.