Carrying Iron Ore

jaydeeare
7th March 2010, 11:50
You may think these question to be very basic, and I may already have an inkling of the answers.

When an ore carrier loaded or discharged her cargo of iron ore, would a compass correction need to be made each time?

I think the answer would probably be 'yes, of course', but from my memory from College, this would require the ship to be turned in full circle (?) for adjustments to be made.

What if the cargo shifted, would that make any noticeable difference?

What exactly would the process be?

Thanks for your time ;)

Pat Thompson
7th March 2010, 11:58
Greetings,

The process, make sure the gyro was working properly.

Nick Balls
7th March 2010, 12:30
I used to work on Iron Ore Ships.
The reality was we never adjusted compasses for each trip . Yes there is a huge difference between loaded and empty ....... Just keeping a good compass record book , doing an error each watch is a VERY GOOD IDEA ......for the day the gyro falls over!
Its not just iron ore of course......... pipe carriers in the offshore game also experience large amouts of deviation........Remember : True Virgins Make Dull Company ( True, Variation,Deviation, Compass)

John Cassels
7th March 2010, 13:11
Sailed on many ore carriers both large and small and never seen any of the ships swung
because of this.
Think Nick has the answer ; keeping a good compass error book was important when
both loaded and in ballast. Easy then to compensate if required.

jaydeeare
7th March 2010, 13:34
Remember : True Virgins Make Dull Company ( True, Variation,Deviation, Compass)

Thanks for the quick responses :)

it makes sense now. I had forgotten about the gyro's - must be getting old!! (Jester)

Nick I remember that phrase! We were also taught the clean version - Cadbury's Dairy Milk Very Tasty.

Nick Balls
7th March 2010, 14:14
Been on more than one ship where we 'lost' the Gyro............The best one was when we had been having trouble with a Microtechnica Compass and had a new element sent out to Japan from italy....... There she sat on the Chart Table in special wooden blocks ,ready to be fitted .Along comes the Junior engineer and gives it a quick 'roll' across the table...........We hand steered that trip right across the pacific ........ LOL
I have had to give up now but more recently I have been appalled at the lack of attention paid to the compass record book !!! I was still teaching youngsters the ease and speed of getting good errors ....WITHOUT a damm calculator ....and in some cases on modern ships which frequently now have very poor quality Magnetic compasses and no repeaters , using the ship itself to align a suitable observable object.. That is the big trouble , people forget that Navigation is an art not a science !

slick
7th March 2010, 14:53
All,
At the risk of repeating myself Weir's Star Diagram for the most satisfying way of obtaining Compass Errors and Deviations.

Yours aye,


slick

greektoon
7th March 2010, 17:19
Thanks for the quick responses :)

it makes sense now. I had forgotten about the gyro's - must be getting old!! (Jester)

Nick I remember that phrase! We were also taught the clean version - Cadbury's Dairy Milk Very Tasty.

And the mnemonic for going from Compass to True.... (Compass Dev Mag Var True) .....


Charlies Dick Makes Virgins Tremble

TIM HUDSON
7th March 2010, 17:40
Sailed on the iron ore carriers of BISCO chartering and never remember the cargo shifting. The heaps were where they were loaded despite some awful passages from Murmansk or St. Lawrence.

michaelF
8th March 2010, 09:32
And the mnemonic for going from Compass to True.... (Compass Dev Mag Var True) .....


Charlies Dick Makes Virgins Tremble

The one i always used was

Cadets Don't Meet Virgins Twice

mike

trotterdotpom
8th March 2010, 09:59
Nick Balls: "Been on more than one ship where we 'lost' the Gyro............The best one was when we had been having trouble with a Microtechnica Compass and had a new element sent out to Japan from italy..."

I bet that was an SD14.

John T.

Nick Balls
8th March 2010, 10:28
Yes the London Grenadier ...........I always thought this system was a great idea but they were just useless things !!!!! It was not until I got in the offshore game that I came across the best.......Arma Brown ..... The most indestructible bit of kit ever!

Binnacle
8th March 2010, 21:44
Yes the London Grenadier ...........I always thought this system was a great idea but they were just useless things !!!!! It was not until I got in the offshore game that I came across the best.......Arma Brown ..... The most indestructible bit of kit ever!

Yes I agree with you Nick, but the early Arma Brown models were not without problems. On one ship in cold weather up the fiords in winter, the low temp warning light would come on. We would have to wrap soft expended paper (used for protection of radio valves) around the compass and the light went out once heat was regained The compass was on the chart table and the header tank for the central heating was in the funnel but below the height of the chartroom radiator. Brown's told us that they were fitted in Nato tanks.

Nick Balls
10th March 2010, 09:34
Yes thats right it was a tank compass. I worked on one small supply boat with this type of compass and it had been running non stop for well over 10 years in extremely rigorous conditions without ever being touch ! Having persuaded the super that it needed a service the chap who came down was simply amazed that the thing was still going !!

Stumps
19th March 2010, 18:04
Apart from Iron ore cargoes the same applied to Pig Iron , and any other cargo with a good iron element -As hyas been said a good and well kept Compass Correction Book always helped should the Gyro trip .

jaydeeare
20th March 2010, 16:33
Thanks again for all this information :)

Binnacle
6th May 2010, 20:29
CERTELMELC
Compass to true - E'ly to right
True to Magnetic- E'ly to left
Magnetic to Compass - E'ly to left

NoR
6th May 2010, 21:54
Error East Compass Least
Error West Compass Best

michael charters
30th June 2010, 18:08
What are the two iron balls on either side of bridge compass? They can be adjusted.
Do these compensate for iron ore cargoes.

Billieboy
30th June 2010, 19:03
What are the two iron balls on either side of bridge compass? They can be adjusted.
Do these compensate for iron ore cargoes.

The story is that they came off the monkey, who was living on the island, when the ship got stuck in the ice.

michael charters
30th June 2010, 23:52
The story is that they came off the monkey, who was living on the island, when the ship got stuck in the ice.

VERY FUNNY

John Briggs
1st July 2010, 02:46
Stupid me! I always thought they were Kelvin's balls!

Wanstead
1st July 2010, 12:06
What are the two iron balls on either side of bridge compass? They can be adjusted.
Do these compensate for iron ore cargoes.

No! They correct a Coefficient 'B'

michael charters
1st July 2010, 15:41
Great thing magnetism. sail the seas with only a loadstone!

Billieboy
1st July 2010, 15:54
It's leckey's de-gaussing that screws it all up!

stevie-w
1st July 2010, 18:29
The highlight of deep-sea night watches- a competition between the 2nd and 3rd Mates to see who could find the most obscure star for a compass error. At least it made an interesting read of the Compass error book

David K
28th August 2011, 05:57
... Yeah ! It always provided a measure of entertainment, to use obscure Stars to check the Compass errors. And often a "Challenge" to find suitable land marks (ones with proper names!) to achieve the same thing, when "coasting". ..... David K

Waighty
28th August 2011, 11:09
A basic satnav was a great help to speed up calculation of compass errors, using the waypoint system. From pos'n of ship lat and long; to pos'n of celestial object Lat=Decl, Long = Hour Angle. Press button and Course = true bearing. Seemed to work every time!

Harvatt
28th August 2011, 11:33
Hi Johnny, nice to see a memo from you.
Subject to Maritime and Insurance rulings, your answer is right - it is yes and in order to do it the ship would need to turn in full circles. cargo shifting, well this would be how long is a piece of string " . I am now well retired and a little rusty,but I remember before Gyro was to be found in most vessels and before Decca and Sat Nav etc.. A vessel coming from Japan to Immingam using the sun and stars and having to follow other ships. another ship placed a lifeboat compass in a neutral spot on a stool and managed to steer using that,his steering compass was frozen to the bulkhead. I personally - to prove a point to a master, swung a ship and placed some 20 odd magnets in and around the binnacle just to free the compass , it was impossible of course to adjust it. all I could suggest was he had the ship " wiped "
It depends generally upon whether the ore was loaded or discharged by magnetic grab, the after effects were not so bad if it was'nt.
Hope this helps a bit.
Harvatt ( Terry )

Tom Condren
28th August 2011, 13:38
A basic satnav was a great help to speed up calculation of compass errors, using the waypoint system. From pos'n of ship lat and long; to pos'n of celestial object Lat=Decl, Long = Hour Angle. Press button and Course = true bearing. Seemed to work every time!

Eh??????!!!

Waighty
29th August 2011, 10:58
Eh??????!!!

Well, instead of having to use ABC tables you effectively changed the declination to latitude and the hour angle to longitude and treated it as just another position, then entered it into the satnav as a waypoint and asked it for a course from your actual or DR position. The resultant course would also be the true bearing of the celestial object. At first I wasn't sure but checked it against the time honoured method and it was right every time. Speeded the process up.

I remember showing one cadet that crossing a visual bearing of a distant island (Reunion actually) with a position line of the sun would actually give a reasonable position. He was even more amazed when I explained that you could do the same with a corrected DF bearing as well!

Mind you it took me a while as a cadet to master these navigational arts! (Pint)(Pint)(Bounce)

Tom Condren
29th August 2011, 12:01
A basic satnav was a great help to speed up calculation of compass errors, using the waypoint system.

The introduction of the above puts a big question mark over your posts!

The rest is easy and nothing special.

joebuckham
29th August 2011, 12:38
is it me or does anyone else feel that b d is with us once more(?HUH)

sparkie2182
29th August 2011, 12:40
No Joe.........

I have had the feeling for some time now and it's not a pleasant one.

John Cassels
29th August 2011, 19:44
is it me or does anyone else feel that b d is with us once more(?HUH)

No way Joe , BD is happy on another similar site and certainly does
not miss this one.

sparkie2182
29th August 2011, 20:54
I bet.

joebuckham
29th August 2011, 21:21
if you say so john(Thumb)

randcmackenzie
29th August 2011, 22:14
No way Joe , BD is happy on another similar site and certainly does
not miss this one.

I think it is fair to say that very few miss bd.

sparkie2182
29th August 2011, 22:15
Very fair.

Pat Kennedy
29th August 2011, 22:28
if you say so john(Thumb)

Joe,
Its true, I have seen his name with my own eyes.
There are many imposters and wannabees, but only one Bill.
Best regards,
Pat(Thumb)

sparkie2182
29th August 2011, 22:34
"but only one Bill"...........

That was precisely the problem............There wasn't !!!

:)

joebuckham
29th August 2011, 23:14
Joe,
Its true, I have seen his name with my own eyes.
There are many imposters and wannabees, but only one Bill.
Best regards,
Pat(Thumb)

but which one pat(Jester)(Jester)

sparkie2182
29th August 2011, 23:18
Classic.

:)

joe732
30th August 2011, 00:14
is it me or does anyone else feel that b d is with us once more(?HUH)

For sure.

He's on his second (that I know of) name change on another similar site.

The occasional lucid and coherent postings always degenerate to type after he sucks them in, in one guise or another.

Even those of us that don't have a pre STCW 98 certificate can spot him a mile off. [=P]

sparkie2182
30th August 2011, 00:33
Well..........it's good to know that he.............

"certainly does not miss this one."

joe732
30th August 2011, 01:33
Well..........it's good to know that he.............

"certainly does not miss this one."

Eh??????!!! (Jester)

sparkie2182
30th August 2011, 11:18
Ref post 35, Joe.

jaydeeare
1st September 2011, 12:27
Thanks for the interesting an enlightening replies :)

Waighty
22nd October 2011, 14:54
The introduction of the above puts a big question mark over your posts!

The rest is easy and nothing special.

Reasons why?

joe732
26th October 2011, 22:11
Reasons why?

Waighty, I have the the feeling you may be waiting a while for a reply from Captain Tom or Captain Bill or whatever fictitious user name he has thought up this month.

Maybe, he may re- register using another user name like he normally does.

PS Hi Bill (Applause)