Clipper ship is thrown lifeline (BBC News)

[SN NewsCaster]

A firm is appointed to review the future of the world's oldest passenger clipper ship, The City Of Adelaide.

More from BBC News... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/news/int/search/news%2Bsport/ship/-/2/hi/uk_news/england/wear/8650450.stm)

[Doug Shaw]

SN members from Glasgow would likely know this vessel as the SV Carrick. I could be wrong, but I think at one time she was used as the HQ for the RNVR (Glasgow) or for some similar function.

Regards
Doug

[S. Toth]

Hopefully the best will come from this. She is such a historical piece, older then the cutty sark.

[gordy]

Doug, your right.
I managed to get aboard her after her move from the city centre berth to Prices Dock.
I think she had a bit of an incident with one of Glasgow's bridges on the way down.
There was such a feeling of optimism that she was going to be looked after, sadly it was downhill all the way.

[Scurdie]

SN members from Glasgow would likely know this vessel as the SV Carrick. I could be wrong, but I think at one time she was used as the HQ for the RNVR (Glasgow) or for some similar function.

Regards
Doug
Yes, Doug, that is indeed correct. She was a landmark in the centre of Glasgow in the 1970's. The RNVR let some of the space aboard to other organisations too; for example, the Ocean Youth Club's Scottish office was aboard her for a while. Unfortunately, she sank at her berth there on at least one occasion, apparently because she settled at low tide on some old piles that punctured her hull. Now ashore in Irvine, her present rotting state is an eyesore, and there have been moves for her demolition. Sad though that would be, my personal view is that restoration from her present condition would leave very little that is original, and therefore be of questionable value.:(

[Don Matheson]

As Scurdie says her present condition is very poor and she is indeed an eyesore. It is proposed to move her from Irvine, a place I thought was her last chance ever, and its been mentioned that Adelaide would like to take her.
Personally I dont think she would get off the slip and on to a barge. She would then need to be lifted to a larger barge for towing to Australia or kept on the barge and lifted or floated onto a transporter for her voyage.
Having known her for many years it hurts me to say I dont think they can do it and I honestly dont think it would be worth it.
I would love to be proved wrong but I doubt I will.

Don

[eriskay]

In my view, she was still salvageable when she came down from the Clyde to the specially prepared berth at Irvine but was simply left there to deteriorate as the years passed on. The old story - insufficient funds and interest. In later years, she was covered (cocooned) in plastic - probably the worst thing that could have been done as any water or dampness was retained and accelerated the rotting and corrison process with humidity, condensation, etc. Whereas if left open she would have at least had the wind drying her out as fast as she got wetted.

I don't think there was an incident when she was moved from her old berth into the river and passed under the bridge. That was all carefully planned beforehand and she cleared it by the claculated few inches. (A friend and work colleague travelled down on her and photographed the entire operation) She did take the ground again when lying alongside at Princes Dock and had to be repaired again and refloated for the rerst of her passage down to Ayrshire - perhaps that's what Gordy heard about?

Have heard all the rumours of her going back to Adelaide, or Sunderland where she was built by William Pile, but even ten years ago she was not fit for either. Her frames are in very poor condition and she could not sustain pulling/lifting/flotation etc. The extent of frame replacement, and complete replacement of her double skin timbers, would no longer reflect restoration or preservation but rather renewal. As has been mentioned above by Scurdie, the value of such an exercise is questionable, and certainly the very high cost involved would not be justified - probaly in excess of £15 millions.

Considering the history of this vessel, and the fact that the is one of only two of that class (composite construction fast clipper) remaining, it is tragic that in this country we cannot do what has been successfully done in the Scandanavian countries, America, Canada, etc., given our long and once-proud maritime heritage.

[eriskay]

Couple of images posted in my Gallery

[BarryM]

The covering on the CoA/Carrick is not "plastic" but a breathable membrane similar to Gortex and it lets the air through but resists water. Funding for this was provided by a businessman who at one time had an interest in restoring her.

[Don Matheson]

Can you tell me more Barry as I live quite close to her and am interested in anything that can be done with the Carrick. Despite any covering that you mention, I feel she could only be rebuilt where she is as any movement now would be fairly unpredictable due to her present condition.
Please tell us more

Don

[BarryM]

Don,
As you can tell from the date it is quite a while since I last logged in here.

Without going into all the ins and outs, at one time the Scottish Maritime Museum was reasonably well funded but the advent of smaller local authorities created a situation where the SMM had to live 'hand to mouth' and teetering on the brink of bankruptcy. Why is the Irvine operation only open for part of the year? Because it cannot afford to open full-time. The financial position has improved over the past year but is still far from good and all industrial museums struggle. That being said, you can appreciate why so little was available to spend on the Carrick/City of Adelaide. By the time somebody came on the scene who was prepared to inject funds, it was too late and the scheme fell though as repairs would have left so little of the original that it would be a reproduction and not a restoration. Add to this, the idea of putting her back to sea was scuppered by modern Regs.

The SMM idea was for controlled dismantling. Filming, sketching, making plans and retaining bits of what could be preserved. The Ayatollahs of various heritage trusts were horrified by this; as far as they were concerned the ship must be preserved intact and at all costs. This ignored the fact that they could not contribute anything in hard cash and neither would anybody else.

I do know that when some of the concrete ballast was dug out all traces of the iron frames it contained had gone, the hull is in a pretty poor state and lifting/moving it would surely be problematic?.

The Australians have decided to take her back home and seem to think it is feasible. I hear that they have constructed a lifting frame and are trying to ship it to Irvine. If they manage it, then what?

I understand they intend to roll the frame on hydraulic bogies to the dock which is just upstream of its present location, load it onto a barge, take it out to sea and back-load it onto a semi-sub transporter vessel.

Points to think of are:

1. Will the hull survive movement to the dock? There is bound to be some twisting of the frame.

2. How will a barge get up to the dock given the current silting of the channel and, even if it can in light condition, how will the laden barge get back to the sea?

3. Will the barge (with vessel still on top) be loaded onto the semi-sub transporter? If transfer from barge to transporter at sea is envisaged, a very large crane will have to be mobilised.

I won't go on but you can see that this is a huge technical problem with no little expense and no certainty of success.

Ships then and now, are built for a specific service life to give a financial return. Anything beyond that time incurs expense that plenty pay lip-service to but few, very few, are prepared to finance. I hope to be watching when - if? - the Australian team start operations but I'm not holding my breath that they will get her away in one piece - if at all.

Barry M

[SkyFire]

Thinking that the barge to semi-sub transporter could be easy, just load the barge onto the transpoter. ???

[billywinkle]

Why dont they just dismantle the ship and then rebuild it replacing what they need to when they get back to Australia?.

[Don Matheson]

SkyFire getting the barge onto the transporter is an everyday job to the transporters.
Getting City of Adelaide from her slipway to the barge may be its last ever move, dont care what people think, and i would love to be wrong. Moving her should have been done many years ago if ever. Another problem is she sits on a slip ad the water at the river end is very shallow as nothing has been launched there for many years so it has never been dredged. Irvine had her own bucket dredger to keep this area deep but I think she went about 1958-60.
Very shallow water right out to the sea now and I dont know is a tug with a large barge could get in to her.
Having very strong winds today but wont be able to see her until next week. Perhaps someone nearbye could get a photo to show her present condition.

Don

[SkyFire]

We will just have to see what happens, it would be nice if they can save her. Beginning to have doubts though. :(

At the very least, hopefully someone can get lots of measurements off the hull, so a kit of her could be produced. :)

[BarryM]

Why dont they just dismantle the ship and then rebuild it replacing what they need to when they get back to Australia?.

I'd suggest that:-

1. Money. The Australian project is very tight for cash and dismantling/transport and rebuilding will be very expensive.

2. The full hull survey showed that so much new timber would have to be put in that the result would be a reproduction and not a restoration. It would be cheaper to build a replica in Australia. NB The Australians intend to conserve the vessel as is; they do not have the cash to restore her.

Yes, back-loading a transport barge into a semi-sub transporter off the coast, weather permitting, is technically feasible. However, that ties up the barge until it is released in Adelaide and returned to the UK/Europe and that costs money in charter fees and towage. Unless some kind shipowner offers to donate the barge and towage free of charge (unlikely, given the distance involved) the Project Group will have to find the money to pay for it. Perhaps they do have the contingency to pay for it but they do not have funds to spare.

The project is already at least 18 months behind schedule with no sign that anything can be done before Spring 2012.

As Don confirms, the river has not been dredged for years and is heavily silted. (The SMM already have problems moving larger vessels without grounding.) I have not seen anything in the Australians' plans that indicate how they will overcome this problem. A fully deballasted cargo barge draws very little water but a barge loaded with the City of Adelaide certainly will.

If the CoA was capable of bearing her own weight in the water without buckling, I suppose that you could strap floatation tanks alongside and launch her with salvage pumps going like the clappers. However, without the support of a cradle, it is very doubtful if she can be moved without breaking up.