The Engine Shop

albatross1923
1st July 2010, 10:39
I wonder how many of us remember our apprenticeship days i served my time with Barclay Curles North Bitish Engine Works 71 Years Ago 1939/1944
and a further two years as journey marine fitter i learnt frommy old fitter he was my fred dibnah JAMES Clydesdale shrunk many crankshafts together
3 4 5 and 6 cylinder mostly for BI only the two of us not vertically but
horizontally on special machined table may be it is not well known that main
engine crank pins were dowel pinned shrunk tail end brass liners gear wheel
rims built also Bibby Doxford Detuning Flywheels did lots more regarding Doxford Engines but that is another chapter
ALBATROSS 1923

eldersuk
1st July 2010, 23:20
Very interesting work albatross, send us more secrets of the trade.

Derek

Joe Freeman
2nd July 2010, 00:37
Hi Albatross 1923 I wonder how many engineer fitters are left who remember these shrink jobs. I came across a sketch of a "Lucigen Light" that was very similar to the heaters that we used at Rowans for preheating the rings and water jackets on Doxford liners. I am sure they were used to shrink crankshaft webs and pins as well, but before my time.
Tailshaft shrink jobs were a great performance the correct temperature was measured with a stick of lead solder when melted on the outside surface. I saw one jam on the step during installation, it was sliced off and send back to the foundry.
There were some antiquated methods utilized at Rowans as I am sure there were elsewhere and they all worked.
I will post the sketch of the Lucigen Light. I always thought the oil was called Lucigen oil similar to diesel oil.
Joe.

spongebob
2nd July 2010, 00:46
Hello Albatross

At 87 you will have been at the real “hands on” end of heavy engineering before the post war advancements in equipment and techniques that made it easier if not better.

You must have a quiet a few stories up your sleeve and I am sure that we would all like to hear them.

Some old but tried and true methods of doing some jobs did hang on into the post war periods and one I did marvel at was the pipe bending floor at Babcock Renfrew, when they bent the likes of large diameter steam piping by siting the work piece in a gas fired tempory refractory furnace before lifting it clear and coaxing the bending using a well trained horse as the pulling power. A special tap on the rump could control the degree of bend to accurate limits before re heating work piece in a re configured furnace ready for the next reheat and pull.

I visited there in 1894 and they told me that this method was still used as late as the early 60’s simply because it worked so well and they still had the men and horses.

Today we have Computer numeric controlled machines making light but complicated work of it.

Bob

surfaceblow
2nd July 2010, 01:19
Hello Albatross

I visited there in 1894 and they told me that this method was still used as late as the early 60’s simply because it worked so well and they still had the men and horses. Bob

I hope 1894 is a typo, if not you can tell us a lot of stories of the days of old.

spongebob
2nd July 2010, 03:14
You are right surfaceblow, I might look old but not that old, 1984 was a good year.

Bob

albatross1923
2nd July 2010, 16:00
Hi Albatross 1923 I wonder how many engineer fitters are left who remember these shrink jobs. I came across a sketch of a "Lucigen Light" that was very similar to the heaters that we used at Rowans for preheating the rings and water jackets on Doxford liners. I am sure they were used to shrink crankshaft webs and pins as well, but before my time.
Tailshaft shrink jobs were a great performance the correct temperature was measured with a stick of lead solder when melted on the outside surface. I saw one jam on the step during installation, it was sliced off and send back to the foundry.
There were some antiquated methods utilized at Rowans as I am sure there were elsewhere and they all worked.
I will post the sketch of the Lucigen Light. I always thought the oil was called Lucigen oil similar to diesel oil.
Joe.

greetings Joe its some time since we last talked
you have just described how it was done the liner in the upright cradle two oil burners stuck up its bottom the stick of solder
the trick was in making the stopper height to match the steps on liner with
those on the shaft when you dropped it in
regards

iain

Billieboy
2nd July 2010, 19:06
Only shrinking I ever did was a set of tires for a loco at Barry loco shop.

Joe Freeman
3rd July 2010, 04:00
greetings Joe its some time since we last talked
you have just described how it was done the liner in the upright cradle two oil burners stuck up its bottom the stick of solder
the trick was in making the stopper height to match the steps on liner with
those on the shaft when you dropped it in
regards

iain

Hi when I mentioned that the tailshaft shrink job was a performance I realy meant it. The following is the method that I witnessed several times during my apprenticeship.
The tailshaft was bolted horizontally to a thick steel plate imbedded in a wall and then checked for level. A hardwood stopper was fixed to the flange end to halt the liner as it was moved along the shaft. The liner was set horizontally on two roller supports in line with the shaft. The heaters were placed at each end and when the correct temperature was achieved the liner was lifted by an overhead crane. This was achieved by predetermined marks on the crane rail and two preselected slings attached to two equally spaced large clamps bolted to the outside of the liner. These clamps were used to rotate the liner during the heating process and to level the liner. When all was ready the liner was then lifted to the correct height and slid over the shaft.
You can appreciate this was a tricky business as there were two or three small steps on the outside diameter of the shaft for the liner to pass over without getting stuck.

albatross1923
3rd July 2010, 10:53
Hi when I mentioned that the tailshaft shrink job was a performance I realy meant it. The following is the method that I witnessed several times during my apprenticeship.
The tailshaft was bolted horizontally to a thick steel plate imbedded in a wall and then checked for level. A hardwood stopper was fixed to the flange end to halt the liner as it was moved along the shaft. The liner was set horizontally on two roller supports in line with the shaft. The heaters were placed at each end and when the correct temperature was achieved the liner was lifted by an overhead crane. This was achieved by predetermined marks on the crane rail and two preselected slings attached to two equally spaced large clamps bolted to the outside of the liner. These clamps were used to rotate the liner during the heating process and to level the liner. When all was ready the liner was then lifted to the correct height and slid over the shaft.
You can appreciate this was a tricky business as there were two or three small steps on the outside diameter of the shaft for the liner to pass over without getting stuck.

Hello JOE

Your method was different we set the liner upright on a cradle marked the positions of steps in liner on to shaft and made a stopper heated
the liner the height of the stopper would determine the relative positions of
steps in the liner to those on the shaft then dropped the shaft in
yours iain

chadburn
3rd July 2010, 18:48
No matter how many times you checked and double checked(Sad) that which you were shrinking/expanding was ready to mate and you gave the word to go it was alway's a "nervous" time until the operation was completed and a sigh of relief quietly expelled, the thought of what would happen if it stuck half way was too awful to contemplate along with the possible "gentle" ribbing from other's at your failure:(?HUH).

albatross1923
4th July 2010, 11:20
No matter how many times you checked and double checked(Sad) that which you were shrinking/expanding was ready to mate and you gave the word to go it was alway's a "nervous" time until the operation was completed and a sigh of relief quietly expelled, the thought of what would happen if it stuck half way was too awful to contemplate along with the possible "gentle" ribbing from other's at your failure:(?HUH).

Chadburn
Truly spoken words thinking about it gave me the shits check and double check the old journeyman i worked with was a genius at it there was
only two of us at it we shrunk Doxford Crankshafts 3 4 5 6 cylinder sticking a crank pin or dogleg would be fatal you had to have good craneman and rigger
never stuck anything had some near missess
Regards ALBATROSS 1923

chadburn
4th July 2010, 17:48
Chadburn
Truly spoken words thinking about it gave me the shits check and double check the old journeyman i worked with was a genius at it there was
only two of us at it we shrunk Doxford Crankshafts 3 4 5 6 cylinder sticking a crank pin or dogleg would be fatal you had to have good craneman and rigger
never stuck anything had some near missess
Regards ALBATROSS 1923

Asking another person like the crane driver was alway's "difficult" especially if you wanted it moved a "smidgin"(Wave). When it went to plan everyone just carried on as normal, when it went wrong everybody and I mean everybody (including the Gateman) would just "happen" to walk through the shed and have a look at the said item.:@ Regard's

Pat Kennedy
4th July 2010, 20:04
Asking another person like the crane driver was alway's "difficult" especially if you wanted it moved a "smidgin"(Wave). When it went to plan everyone just carried on as normal, when it went wrong everybody and I mean everybody (including the Gateman) would just "happen" to walk through the shed and have a look at the said item.:@ Regard's

As an ex shipyard crane driver, I have done this job a couple of times, and agree its a nervous time for everyone. I also did bending of large diameter pipework using a gantry crane (Ginny) instead of a horse as described by Bob. The pipes were hard packed with sand and the open ends fitted with bungs. The pipe fitters would then insert steel dowels into holes in the fire grating at precisely measured distances and place the pipe on the coke fire.
A system of blocks was set up while the pipe was brought up to cherry red, and the wire hooked up to the crane and a few gentle heaves later you would have a pipe formed to match the previously constructed template, which was either made from plywood or iron rod.
A 'smidgin' was a recognized crane command, signified in a noisy environment by a slow circular movement of the palms of the hands rubbing together.
Its all done by induction bending these days.
regards,
Pat

chadburn
5th July 2010, 10:41
Pat, your piece reminded me of when I visited an OBO being built in Japan (1967), she was ahead of us in build time and was built with Butterfly Valves in the new "automatic" Ballast system (we were the second), making our way through the Duct keel we found a Japanese worker grinding the ripples out of the bend on one of the main ballast pipe's. The ships Chief who was with us went ballistic and demanded that all the main ballast pipes that had bends be opened up so that he could inspect the inside's.

gordy
5th July 2010, 12:08
I vividly remember watching a Sulzer crank being assembled in Fairfields engine shop about 1963.
The foreman in charge looked a real bag of nerves and the roar off the gas heaters was amazing. I think this may have been the last one done there, they could be bought in from Italy ready to go straight into the crankcase cheaper than we could make them.
Some years later as a young journeyman I was in G & J Weirs, Cathcart, and I worked in the service dept with an old fitter doing overhauls on turbo feed pumps. We were heating the turbine wheel to remove the shaft and he was smoking his pipe as we waited for the right time to apply the screw jack to the shaft. He spat what looked like half a pint of saliva + tobacco on the wheel, and declared it hot enough as it bubbled away, the smell of it nearly making me puke.
Technology is wonderful!

albatross1923
5th July 2010, 16:45
I vividly remember watching a Sulzer crank being assembled in Fairfields engine shop about 1963.
The foreman in charge looked a real bag of nerves and the roar off the gas heaters was amazing. I think this may have been the last one done there, they could be bought in from Italy ready to go straight into the crankcase cheaper than we could make them.
Some years later as a young journeyman I was in G & J Weirs, Cathcart, and I worked in the service dept with an old fitter doing overhauls on turbo feed pumps. We were heating the turbine wheel to remove the shaft and he was smoking his pipe as we waited for the right time to apply the screw jack to the shaft. He spat what looked like half a pint of saliva + tobacco on the wheel, and declared it hot enough as it bubbled away, the smell of it nearly making me puke.
Technology is wonderful!
HELLO GORDY
you mention the roar of the burners we used ordinary coal gas
from the mains attached to a metal canaster with holes suitably drilled the
canaster was placed in the web holes sitting on two nuts to give an even
flame all round you miked diameter of crank pin did same holes in web transfered reading to outside mike added shrinkage allowance finally set
this size to inside calipers made by the blacksmith forgot to mention gas trans
mitted by flexible hose tobacco use for cooling drills
albatross1923

Joe Freeman
6th July 2010, 18:42
Hi again this is getting to be quite a thread. At Rowans during the heating of the Doxford reinforcing rings and water jackets Go no Go gauges were used to measure the expansion of the inside diameter. These gauges were hand made out of half inch square bar tapered at the ends and stamped with the the size and for which bore of cylinder.
The reinforcing rings were assembled in a cage four, five or six at a time and after they reached the correct expansion they were quickly lifted en-mass over the liner and lowered into place. Once cooled the water jacket was installed in the same fashion. After further cooling the final rings were heated and installed. Generally there were three or four liners waiting to have the rings and jackets installed.
This was the tried and true method and I never saw any jam up.
Joe.

chadburn
7th July 2010, 15:41
Hand made Trammels, also used for checking any drooping/sagging in Furnace Crown's.

submarine
28th July 2010, 15:33
Hello Albatross I was app. fitter at NBDEW Sept 58 to Sept 63 could "Auld Jimmy" who did all the shrinking possibly be the same Jim Clydesdale that you knew. His work area was out in front of the foremans shack. He was very close to retirement
Dave

albatross1923
30th July 2010, 17:19
helloHello Albatross I was app. fitter at NBDEW Sept 58 to Sept 63 could "Auld Jimmy" who did all the shrinking possibly be the same Jim Clydesdale that you knew. His work area was out in front of the foremans shack. He was very close to retirement
Dave
Hello Dave
yes that would be him came from Kinghorn he was my
friend all his life and passed away somtime in the late
1960/s use to come and see me when i left the sea
flung away the mould when he was born we both survived
the Clydebank BLITZ `1941 went to stay with him my
digs got blown up


yours albatross

japottinger
30th July 2010, 17:51
In Scotts' at Greenock Doxford crankshafts were made in two halves. There was a deep pit in the engine shop and each section was shrunk on progressively to build up each half unit. The bearing pins were machined on a big lathe, and off set crank pins in same lathe but with a encircling housing with rotating tool, and then the two halves were bolted together. There was a set of rails leading down from the top end of a series of machine shops and a special bogey was used to take the crankshaft down the short road and across the main street to the shipyard.
They also had a small rail steam engine, with side saddle tanks similar to that seen in northern India which could traverse on these rails.

david m leadbetter
13th February 2011, 03:54
Hi Everyone,
Now this is very nostalgic remeniscing...

I served my apprenticeship at a place called Jas. Robertson and Sons at their Wyre Dock Works. The work we did was repair work and was on various kinds of trawlers. Shrink fitting tail shaft liners was one of their practices, as was crankshaft construction. Two items we had ( or was that three) were pits in the fitting shop floor so that shafts could be placed vertical and catered for, the other was three furnaces over in the boilermakers shop (a very large building covering several trades areas). The third item you ask... Well we also had a foreman and a fitter (two fitters) who did these performances on several occasions. These were perfectly ordinary human beings until the hot brass liners or crankwebs arrived. If it went well (often) OK if not or nearly by crikey it was a panic to keep the cold bits cold and the hot bits hot and get the job done quickly. Measurements as mentioned previously were with a welded T bar Adjusted for accuracy with a hammer to get the points correct. Of course the Insurance man was there to see all went well etc...Generally it was not quite an ordinary day and we glad when it was all over. I was in England (on holiday) and went to see the old place.. Fleetwood has changed very much now that the main industry has gone. The docks don't. even exist any more and the old factory has gone. Many an old timer would be turning in his grave I guesse.

funnelstays
14th February 2011, 11:10
I wonder how many of us remember our apprenticeship days i served my time with Barclay Curles North Bitish Engine Works 71 Years Ago 1939/1944
and a further two years as journey marine fitter i learnt frommy old fitter he was my fred dibnah JAMES Clydesdale shrunk many crankshafts together
3 4 5 and 6 cylinder mostly for BI only the two of us not vertically but
horizontally on special machined table may be it is not well known that main
engine crank pins were dowel pinned shrunk tail end brass liners gear wheel
rims built also Bibby Doxford Detuning Flywheels did lots more regarding Doxford Engines but that is another chapter
ALBATROSS 1923

Have you had a look at this page I stumbled on it this morning
http://www.flickriver.com/groups/doxford/pool/interesting/

Billieboy
14th February 2011, 12:50
Have you had a look at this page I stumbled on it this morning
http://www.flickriver.com/groups/doxford/pool/interesting/

Fantastic set of photos, only miss the elastic bands, it seem that most of the photos are from a post 1960 period.

chadburn
14th February 2011, 13:47
Remarkable set of photograph's of times gone by, certainly remember hearing the new's about the crankcase explosion on one of their prototype engine's.

Billieboy
14th February 2011, 15:13
'orrible engines them Doxfords, the only good engine driven air pump I ever saw was the air pump on a Triple expansion steam engine.

HALLLINE
15th February 2011, 21:52
As an apprentice at Swan's Neptune Engine Works, 1960 to 1965, we used to shrink the cooling water jackets onto Doxford liners and bronze sleeves onto tail shafts, A few heart stopping moments I can tell you !.
Dave

freyr
22nd February 2011, 18:32
I am sorry i didnt knwo where to post this, please pardon me if this is the wrong forum to post this query. I have just started out at sea, and interms of experience I am still a newbie. My query is regarding a certain enhancement on the bow design. A certain European company has come with a new design called the X bow, which, according to the designer, reduces frictional resistance as well as the pounding and slamming effects, thereby giving improved performance in rough weather and also reducing fuel consumption considerably. Can anyone give clarification regarding the same? Please give references for the same.

Thank You

surfaceblow
22nd February 2011, 19:54
I am sorry i didnt knwo where to post this, please pardon me if this is the wrong forum to post this query. I have just started out at sea, and interms of experience I am still a newbie. My query is regarding a certain enhancement on the bow design. A certain European company has come with a new design called the X bow, which, according to the designer, reduces frictional resistance as well as the pounding and slamming effects, thereby giving improved performance in rough weather and also reducing fuel consumption considerably. Can anyone give clarification regarding the same? Please give references for the same.

Thank You

Hello Freyr

Welcome to the site. I hope you well in your endeavors.


"Vessels from 700 AD, several centuries before Vikings ruled Norway, an Oseberg ship from approximately 800 AD and the vessel knarr from around year 1000 AD all have one thing in common; their rounded bows were the inspiration for Ulstein’s latest design, the x-bow container ship".

The X Bow is a ULSTEIN design and their is many web sites and You Tube video's giving the details of the design.

http://www.ulsteingroup.com/kunder/ulstein/mm.nsf/lupgraphics/ULSTEIN%20X-BOWlr.pdf/$file/ULSTEIN%20X-BOWlr.pdf


http://thisbluemarble.com/showthread.php?p=92576

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJsogw9fHE0

Joe

freyr
23rd February 2011, 04:29
thank you sir, i hope i can post my queries regarding maintenance of engines, have lots to learn from people who have been at sea

Mechanic-H
23rd February 2011, 11:35
How were the crankshaft parts lined up prior to shrink fitting?

Pat Kennedy
23rd February 2011, 11:38
Her's a picture of the Bourbon Orca, an anchor handling vessel which has the Ulstein X bow.
A strange looking ship, but apparently very economical on fuel, and very comfortable in a heavy sea.

gordy
23rd February 2011, 11:45
In the engine shop where I worked, the crankshaft was sunk into a pit, deeper as each section was shrunk together. The webs would be lined at the desired angle for the correct piston angular relationship and then heated until the expansion allowed fitting to the pin, all this while suspended from the overhead travelling crane.
A very tense operation for all concerned.

Mechanic-H
23rd February 2011, 14:48
Was this done with jigs or marking out? I can imagine this would have to be be done with precision as there would be no correction afterwards.

hamishb
25th February 2011, 17:55
How were the crankshaft parts lined up prior to shrink fitting?

Hello there, In J.G.Kincaid we built crankshafts from ground level upwards.
The webs and pins were marked with lines and centre punch marks to ensure correct ailgnment. the webs were heated in an oil fired furnace.
Most engines had single webs,that is each unit was built up with 2 single webs connected by the crankpin and a journal on either side.
These were heated in an oven which was lifted away to expose the heated web which was then lifted into place on the preceeding journal or pin. a hot but straightforward job.
However crankshafts for Alfred Holt wer a different matter.
These were semi built, each throw consisted of a massive forging of 2 crankwebs and a crankpin in one piece.
This had to be heated in a very large oven. Thr difficulty with this large chunk of hot metal is that we had to stand on top of it to attach the lifting tackle, chain blocke were used to level the job so as well as boots almost burning with the heat coming through the asbestos we were standing on the chains picked up the heat from the hot webs. After that all that remained to do was land it in the correct place.
A little poem I remember was written on the oven door to comemorate A.Hendry head foreman fitter, Howe the journeyman and Danny Watt his apprentice.
Crankshafts steam and diesel,
Are built without a thought,
By the greatest shrinkers on the Clyde,
Henry, Howe and Watt.
There is more aboue tailshaft liners if anyone wants to see it.
Also I had a look at the Doxford pictures and Me myself in person is captured posing at the controls of the single cylinder Doxford during a DEFA visit.
TTFN
Hamish

Mechanic-H
26th February 2011, 12:15
Is that you with the fancy braces?
I wonder if they still assemble the cranks with shrinkage fits or whether they use Loctite?
ps. I first thought it read "shirkers"

hamishb
26th February 2011, 15:59
Is that you with the fancy braces?
I wonder if they still assemble the cranks with shrinkage fits or whether they use Loctite?
ps. I first thought it read "shirkers"

Yes that is me. Nowadays most crankshafts are semi built and sshrunk but some of the larger ones are now welded, try this link
www.marinediesels.info/2_stroke_engine_parts/crankshaft.htm
Regards
Hamish

Rennie Cameron
26th February 2011, 19:53
Hamish, seems like only yesterday....sad to pass by these days.

hamishb
27th February 2011, 11:24
Is that you with the fancy braces?
I wonder if they still assemble the cranks with shrinkage fits or whether they use Loctite?
ps. I first thought it read "shirkers"

Missed the p.s. yes there were shirkers and also a few hunkersliders
Hamish

hamishb
27th February 2011, 11:27
Hamish, seems like only yesterday....sad to pass by these days.

Yes very sad I suppose we could always put our names down for Kincaid House nursing home. I do feel it every time I pass.
Hamish

Mechanic-H
28th February 2011, 11:04
Yes that is me. Nowadays most crankshafts are semi built and sshrunk but some of the larger ones are now welded, try this link
www.marinediesels.info/2_stroke_engine_parts/crankshaft.htm
Regards
Hamish
Thanks for the link. Very interesting. I wonder if Loctite™ has been tried as it does not cause deformation or distortion.

chadburn
28th February 2011, 11:33
In the right application Loctite is useful stuff, but I would not have thought that it would be suitable for use putting a Crankshaft together. Mind you the last time I helped put a VTE Crankshaft together from scratch was in 1955, although I have used both Loctite and heat since then on other application's.

chadburn
28th February 2011, 13:21
As an addition to the above, to me the use of Loctite is a substitute for a poor fit/fitting practise especially on new equipment, it does however come in handy when the part's are worn and no spare is available in the short term, although I would consider the old fashioned "fettle it" way first before using Loctite.

Mechanic-H
28th February 2011, 17:25
I would disagree re; poor fitting. Slip fits can be made that allow gentle assembly without force or distortion. Locktite gives that ability of a superior fix over a shrink fit that is governed by the ability of the female part's expansion. Of course, it can be used as a bodgers helper.
I was involved in the making of a multi spindle drilling head that contained 360 bronze bearings that were pressed into an aluminium casting. When the machine was assembled it was found that the drills were pointing outwards, caused by the bowing due to the interference fit of the bearings. When the bearings were made a slip fit with locktite, the problem was solved. This was in the early seventies when the stuff first came out. Most people then thought that it was merely a fancy type of glue.

Billieboy
28th February 2011, 19:09
When the bearings were made a slip fit with locktite, the problem was solved. This was in the early seventies when the stuff first came out. Most people then thought that it was merely a fancy type of glue.

That's all it is too; a fancy sort of glue safe up to 85°C when fluid working temp, when dry and cured, about 360°C. Personally I'd never try it on a crank web fit, the torque/surface area, would probably fail and in any case the safety factor, for slippage, wouldn't be anywhere near a shrink fit.

Don Matheson
28th February 2011, 20:04
Seved my time in Stephens of Linthouse and worked on shrinking crankshafts for the Mahout and Markor for Brocklebanks.
If I remember these were Sulzer 7 RD 76 engines. The crankshaft came from our machine shop all marked in order and with all angles already marked out with lines and "Pop Marks" so they had to go to the correct angle when the pin was fitted to each web.
Work was carried out over a hole and all the heating was done on the web, the pin ( journal ) was kept cool until web was ready when it was lifted and marks alighned before being lowered into the web. Easy?
When this was cooled and everything checked the crankshaft was lowered further into the hole and the next web or pin was prepared for heating. As the heating was done on each web, we had heating rings that ensured the heat all went to the hole where the next pin would be fitted. If I remember correctly each web or pin took a complete day, with the heating, alighning and shrinking. I believe each job was left overnight to cool, inspected in the morning and the crank was then lowered and the job continued.
When complete the shaft went to a very large lathe ( Craven?) and final maching took place.
I do remember feeling intense pride when these engines started for the first time.

Don

Robert Hilton
28th February 2011, 20:24
Long before I ever went to sea I became aware of an engine that I still consider special.

In 1946, when I was six years old, my parents bought The Board Inn (now the Beehive) in the village of Newholm near Whitby.

Electricity had not reached Newholm, so in the course of time my father looked around for the necessary equipment. The generator set consisted of a large dynamo driven by a single horizontal cylinder Ruston & Hornsby petrol-paraffin engine with a large flywheel. This made 24 volt electricity which was stored in numerous nife batteries. These were crucial to the routine as they could be discharged flat and then charged again without damage.

The Board Inn hosted frequent lock-in parties which would continue until the batteries ran low, long after I had gone to sleep and the wind-up gramaphone had ceased its music. The following evening, as the light faded, lighting would be switched on only to produce a feeble glow in each bulb.

Then someone would go to the engine shed and there would be "...dunk...dunk...dunk..." slowly and then getting into its stride. And behold, there was LIGHT!

I never was an engineer, but when engineers wax lyrical about certain machinery I think I have an idea what they mean.

gordy
28th February 2011, 22:34
I do remember feeling intense pride when these engines started for the first time.
Don

Likewise in Fairfields.
It seemed that a huge percentage of the engine shop and lightmachine shop had heard through the grapevine that a 1st engine start on the test bed was about to take place so there was a huge audience.
No attempt to chase people back to their work was done.
As soon as the engine fired up and after a few minutes running all the lads went back to work with wide grins much in evidence.

You won't get that kind of job satisfaction working in call centres.

How lucky we were Don.

hamishb
1st March 2011, 15:08
I just couldn't not tell you about the hilarity we had while shrinking bronze liners onto the tailshafts.
In Kincaids the liners were fitted vertcaly, the shaft was stood on end and a strongback and packing were fitted as a stopper for the liner.
The liner was heated using a diesel durner, a sort of venturi with compressed air to propell the fuel over a pilot flame.
The liner was placed on rollers and the flame was applied from alternating ends to ensure even heating. Temperature was checked as mentioned before using a solder stick. The liner was rotated using long metal rods with a cranked end. Care was required not to walk past the end of the liner as the heat exhausting from the end was like a jet engine(although we hadn't heard much about them at that time).
When the temperature was correct two swivelling eye plates were attached to the liner and attached to the overhead crane.
The shop chargehand was responsible for lining up the liner and shaft and liner then signaling to the crane driver to lower quickly.
In order to steady the liner the chargehand had his hands wrapped in several layers of hessian sacking. The norm was to get the job lined up and the rest was down to the craneman, however we had one charge hand who everyone stopped to watch as he persisted in guiding the liner down till it landed. The outside diameter of these liners was only rough turned so quite rough, as a result the sacking wrapped around his hands went on fire, so there he was on a staging about 20 feet in the air flapping his arms about to shake of the burning sacking. He never suffered any burns from this but he did it quite a few times and we all enjoyed the spectacle.
I really don't know what elf and safety would have made of this and a few other things we did.
Regards
Hamish

Ron Dean
1st March 2011, 21:01
It was very interesting to read about the various techniques used for shrinking crankshafts & cylinder liners on Doxfords & other large engines.
As an apprentice in the 1940’s the engines I worked on were much smaller, ca. 4,000 BHP max. & 8 cylinder in-line.
From memory the pistons would be 12-16 inches in diameter & the gudgeon pins (say) 4 inches dia.
The only shrinkage job I was involved with at the assembly stage was fitting the gudgeon pin through the piston & the small end of the conn. rod. On the alloy pistons the gudgeon pin was located by 2 internal circlips. The alloy piston would be placed in a very large bucket of very hot water, with one of the circlips pre-fitted. After a few minutes the piston would be hauled out & dropped onto a bench (slightly lower than the standard fitting bench). The conn. rod was already suspended from a chain block above the bench. It had to be a quick job to drop the rod into the piston & line up the small end bush with the bore of the hole for the gudgeon pin.
The gudgeon pin & the holes of the piston were given a smearing of light oil and ASAP the pin was inserted with another fitter or apprentice juggling the rope sling to get the correct alignment.
Once the pin had entered the small end bush, it was usually plain sailing, but I was only happy when I heard the thud of the gudgeon pin, hitting the pre-fitted circlip.
On a few (over enthusiastic) occasions, the pin would bounce back slightly & then it would be a quick dive for the lead hammer or brass tup to ensure the fitting of the final circlip.
All very basic & simple but it worked.

freyr
9th July 2011, 10:00
well, i have been away for a while, finishing formailities for the examinations i will take up to be a certified 4th Engineer. I was wondering if the engineers on this forum can help me prepare for my oral examinations. Would it be possible to reply to the questions i ask on this forum, with diagrams, related to shipboard operations of the engine room, if it wont be much of a trouble. I wish to learn from the experiences of the engineer available on this forum

ART6
9th July 2011, 13:41
I wonder how many of us remember our apprenticeship days i served my time with Barclay Curles North Bitish Engine Works 71 Years Ago 1939/1944
and a further two years as journey marine fitter i learnt frommy old fitter he was my fred dibnah JAMES Clydesdale shrunk many crankshafts together
3 4 5 and 6 cylinder mostly for BI only the two of us not vertically but
horizontally on special machined table may be it is not well known that main
engine crank pins were dowel pinned shrunk tail end brass liners gear wheel
rims built also Bibby Doxford Detuning Flywheels did lots more regarding Doxford Engines but that is another chapter
ALBATROSS 1923

I too served my time at Barclay Curles in the late fifties. I went there from the other end of Britain -- the Isle of Wight! On the first day I was sent into the engine shop, where I was completely ignored while I wandered about looking in awe at the enormous lathes with complete 2 ft diameter main shafts being machined in them. After a couple of days when it started to become obvious that no-one wanted me, I accosted a foreman. I didn't know at the time that no-one, but no-one, ever spoke to a foreman without being spoken to first.

He glared at me as if I was reptilian or something, and then snapped "Right. Outside squad for you until you learn yer manners!" The outside squad -- the penal battalion of the yard, tasked with everything from installing engines in hulls to maintaining the yard cranes. I was assigned to a fitter, Adam Reid, one of nature's gentleman who taught me more than I could ever retain.

After a day or two I was suddenly send for by the squad manager Mr. Lashmar. That, I was told by my mates, must only mean that I had really blotted my copybook that time. No-one on the shop floor ever even saw the squad manager otherwise. I arrived at his office, and was ushered in trembling. He looked at me with apparent interest. "They tell me you're from the Isle of Wight?" I nodded, wondering why that was a sin. "Good lad. So am I!" he grinned.

Of course, in those days there was no favouritism shown by managers to anyone (not even, I suspect, to their wives and children), but the result was I spent all of my time in the outside squad. To me that was a very good deal because eventually, in my final year, I found myself doing sea trials in charge of the starting air compressors on motor ships. Best job in the world and the best foundation in heavy engineering I could have ever gained.