Do the Japanese Care?

NickNZ
17th September 2010, 08:30
I see that the Japanese are going to build another aircraft carrier (or "Through Deck Cruiser" a the RN uised to cal them). The new one to be double the size of the first, and clearly configured to take the F-35's.
What does this prove?
Are the events of WW2 to be forgotten>
Is it a sign that the Americans need their help?
Is it an acknowledgement that the RN can no longer afford to make the Pacific an area of interest?
Does anyonew care that the Japanese ignore restrictions imposed on them, as they have re-written the events of WW2?
Does anyone care?
Does anyone care, that some DO still care?

Satanic Mechanic
17th September 2010, 08:32
I see that the Japanese are going to build another aircraft carrier (or "Through Deck Cruiser" a the RN uised to cal them). The new one to be double the size of the first, and clearly configured to take the F-35's.
What does this prove?
Are the events of WW2 to be forgotten>
Is it a sign that the Americans need their help?
Is it an acknowledgement that the RN can no longer afford to make the Pacific an area of interest?
Does anyonew care that the Japanese ignore restrictions imposed on them, as they have re-written the events of WW2?
Does anyone care?
Does anyone care, that some DO still care?

a) Couldn't care less
b) Why on Earth would the RN be interested in the Pacific these days?

spongebob
17th September 2010, 08:57
Quote

b) Why on Earth would the RN be interested in the Pacific these days?

Yes SM the days of Britain's Might extending much beyond the English channel are long gone let alone into the Pacific theatre.
Gone are Hong Kong, the Indian bases, Singapore etc and representation of the Western world in the Pacific is the duty of the USA, Australia and NZ although the latter are still outside of the ANZUS defense pact due to their nuclear objections.
Even if all three were up to date in cooperation we would have a hard row to hoe against the quietly rising financial, industrial and technical might of the Asian Nations especially China,India, South Korea, Japan and Taiwan and this illustrates the ongoing need to remain friendly via mutual trade pacts, something that is working OK for Australia at the moment.
The thought of another regional conflict doesn't bear thinking about and that is why diplomacy must prevail, Not the Neville Chamberlain type but good honest cooperation.
Give them another few years and they will be able to take us by telephone if they so wished.

Bob

NickNZ
17th September 2010, 10:42
Thanks for that, good honest opinions. Rarely heard these days.

Davesdream
24th October 2010, 21:49
This is late response to the posting's made.

To your first question,

NO... Japan has not forgotten the lesson of WW2 and is reminded of those events on a daily basis from there own people as well as from outsiders from around the world.

The part of this is her Self-Defense Force, which was created after the war for her to protect her country, tho the original intent was based on the US Navy providing the main defense when required or asked.

Given the latest events in the region with China and Taiwain, and the global down turn, it's no wonder that the Japanese have felt the pinch the relations with the east and the west when it comes to Co-Defense agreements. This area of the naval build-up for Japan is one of debate amoung it's own people balanced with the needs of Defense. The building of "Through Deck Cruisers" that has been noted in earlier post is not a new concept, the Russian have used that term in the past to allow one there carriers past through the straits. As per that nations agreement and constitution mandated that no capital ships will or shall be built. Japan is going through a change politically and it should be NO surprise when and if they change the constitution to reflect the current tension in that region.

Moreover, there are others country's who fought and lost that war and to date I have heard NO debate or conversation on there nation's naval shipbuilding programs.. As of this date there are from what i have read atleast 10 to 12 countries interested or building some variation of a carrier

Just my thought's on the subject.

Regards
Dave

barrinoz
25th October 2010, 00:52
Quote

b) Why on Earth would the RN be interested in the Pacific these days?

Yes SM the days of Britain's Might extending much beyond the English channel are long gone let alone into the Pacific theatre.Gone are Hong Kong, the Indian bases, Singapore etc and representation of the Western world in the Pacific is the duty of the USA, Australia and NZ although the latter are still outside of the ANZUS defense pact due to their nuclear objections.
Even if all three were up to date in cooperation we would have a hard row to hoe against the quietly rising financial, industrial and technical might of the Asian Nations especially China,India, South Korea, Japan and Taiwan and this illustrates the ongoing need to remain friendly via mutual trade pacts, something that is working OK for Australia at the moment.
The thought of another regional conflict doesn't bear thinking about and that is why diplomacy must prevail, Not the Neville Chamberlain type but good honest cooperation.
Give them another few years and they will be able to take us by telephone if they so wished.

Bob

Although they still expect us to pick up the tab for their inbred monarchy and, as you will know from recent discourse, the outrageous continual costs for ex Governors General.
I suspect the Japanese are more wary of China (as we should all be, in my opinion) than anything else and may think that the economic clout that country wields is more important to Western Alliances than any protection Japan may require should the chips ever fall. The close association between China and N.Korea will also be a mitigating factor in Japan's desire to defend herself.
barrinoz.

davidships
27th December 2010, 22:03
Although they still expect us to pick up the tab for their inbred monarchy and, as you will know from recent discourse, the outrageous continual costs for ex Governors General.


Who is "they"? There are ballot boxes in Oz & NZ and every freedom to do something different. Until then, it's your inbred monarchy as well as ours. Honestly, we won't nuke you like naughty children.

David

Burned Toast
28th December 2010, 10:35
Last night at the proms, you mean it's not true(Cloud) Rule Britannia(A):sweat:

Ray

NoR
28th December 2010, 10:57
I'm sure the Japanese carrier will be ontime and on budget.

Satanic Mechanic
28th December 2010, 11:17
Last night at the proms, you mean it's not true(Cloud) Rule Britannia(A):sweat:

Ray

Well its certainly a good bit out of date - any particular reason we want to be doing any 'wave ruling ' anyway?

NickNZ
28th December 2010, 11:47
Who is "they"? There are ballot boxes in Oz & NZ and every freedom to do something different. Until then, it's your inbred monarchy as well as ours. Honestly, we won't nuke you like naughty children.

David

Watch this space. There is a growing mass of people whop feel that the UK has nothing to do withb Oz, or NZ. So, as has been demonstrated to Queenie, and Phil the Greek, and their offshoots. Save your money, and stay in the UK.
Always welcvome to visit, but pay your own way, like every body else.
Just don't rely on us to help you out again next time you get in the sh*t.

GWB
28th December 2010, 12:06
Well guys suggest you do a bit of research the Japanese are very honourable and they are on our side this time and some off the pommie's should try and realise you are not what you where and you need the Pacific as well as the Channel and North Sea neither which you could control as you are broke and do not have the ability to control. The original suggestion do your History you can only go to war if you have taxes income tax pre the battle of Trafalgar to pay for the Navy which you don't have or the taxes.

wigger
28th December 2010, 12:23
The Japanese Military also use an awful lot of US systems, so they are not doing any new projects without outside help.

Satanic Mechanic
28th December 2010, 12:33
Well guys suggest you do a bit of research the Japanese are very honourable and they are on our side this time and some off the pommie's should try and realise you are not what you where and you need the Pacific as well as the Channel and North Sea neither which you could control as you are broke and do not have the ability to control. The original suggestion do your History you can only go to war if you have taxes income tax pre the battle of Trafalgar to pay for the Navy which you don't have or the taxes.

full stop .
comma ,
colon :
semi-colon ;

teb
28th December 2010, 12:53
I as one expat(now Australian) am amazed at the bile being shown in this thread by expats now Aussies/Kiwis. Frankly don't think it does you any credit,. by all means have an opinion but does it really have to be so nasty?? Just wondered.(Whaaa)

Jeffers
28th December 2010, 13:40
full stop .
comma ,
colon :
semi-colon ;

(Jester)
Although, to give him his due, he does use one full stop. The rest of it is pretty incomprehensible....

trotterdotpom
28th December 2010, 21:40
There may be some truth in there, but it still smells of standard anti-English bile from a Scottish colon.

John T.

J.Dowd
29th December 2010, 02:19
I'm sure the Japanese carrier will be ontime and on budget.

That's for sure!

Donald McGhee
29th December 2010, 07:43
Let the Japanese build a carrier, or whatever they want to call it! From where I'm sitting it doesn't matter what any Asian nation builds, or what aspirations they may have regarding "ruling the waves".
Those days are long gone and generally speaking unless you have a large, modern escort fleet and aircraft with good anti submarine capabilities, the building of a carrier is somewhat questionable.
The Yanks have perfected this, but their carriers are a self contained war winning island on their own.
From a my point of view lets just get on with life, look forward a visit from the Japanese carrier and allow the crew to spend up large in Auckland or Wellington and be what they are, the worlds greatest tourists.
Watch out for the North Korean Looney, he is one unpredicatable unit, just like his old man the one that preceded him. No wonder the japanese see the need for a carrier, but???

wigger
29th December 2010, 11:30
From what I have read its more of a large Helicopter carrier, bigger than the current Hyuga class. It could still carry JSF, but its similar in style to the US Wasp class Assault ships.. (minus the dock) and it would still be classed as a Destroyer.

E.Martin
29th December 2010, 11:38
I see that the Japanese are going to build another aircraft carrier (or "Through Deck Cruiser" a the RN uised to cal them). The new one to be double the size of the first, and clearly configured to take the F-35's.
What does this prove?
Are the events of WW2 to be forgotten>
Is it a sign that the Americans need their help?
Is it an acknowledgement that the RN can no longer afford to make the Pacific an area of interest?
Does anyonew care that the Japanese ignore restrictions imposed on them, as they have re-written the events of WW2?
Does anyone care?
Does anyone care, that some DO still care?

Recently read a book "The Real Tenko" ,Do the Japanese Care?,
after reading what the Japanese did at Nanking in the 19 thirties
should imagine they will always be looking over their shoulder toward China.
Have read lots about the atrocities the Japanese committed in WW2
but never the depth what was written in the book mentioned,seems their favorite two things was Beheading and rape mostly committed
by the hard core regular troops who had been at Nanking.

cueball44
29th December 2010, 13:04
Maybe we should all carry a small book describing which race of people were our enemy in WW2, and what their forefathers were guilty of concerning atrocities, then if we happen to meet one or two we could thumb through the book before deciding whether to get into a conversation with them. 'cueball44'

trotterdotpom
29th December 2010, 13:19
Yes, some bad stuff happened 70 years ago, especially by today's values. However, I have to own up to being the victim of quite a few acts of random kindness in Japan.

John T.

Satanic Mechanic
29th December 2010, 13:23
Yes, some bad stuff happened 70 years ago, especially by today's values. However, I have to own up to being the victim of quite a few acts of random kindness in Japan.

John T.


Agreed and I haven't been beheaded or raped once - I must assume they have got it out of their system now(Thumb)

Satanic Mechanic
29th December 2010, 13:24
Maybe we should all carry a small book describing which race of people were our enemy in WW2, and what their forefathers were guilty of concerning atrocities, then if we happen to meet one or two we could thumb through the book before deciding whether to get into a conversation with them. 'cueball44'

(Jester)

Lets hope that doesn't catch on worldwide or we could be in some difficulty here in the UK(EEK)

cueball44
29th December 2010, 15:49
Yes, some bad stuff happened 70 years ago, especially by today's values. However, I have to own up to being the victim of quite a few acts of random kindness in Japan.

John T.I am sure you would come across a few people who show kindness in every city on earth, but given the chance there are also plenty of people who would not flinch if ordered to get the ropes/ sandbagged walls/ and extermination areas ready. Let us not kid ourselves that we do not pass such people every day when we go about our business. 'cueball44'

E.Martin
29th December 2010, 15:57
Agreed and I haven't been beheaded or raped once - I must assume they have got it out of their system now(Thumb)

I suggest you read the book I do not want to rake up the past I have read lots of what happened in the Far East in WW2, 70 years ago,have had friends who were POW's who would never forgive what the Japanese did to them they were the fore fathers of todays generation so it was not their fault.
Reading The Real Tenko I could not believe what I was reading,I read things which were so bad I could not discuss them with my wife.

Ian J. Huckin
29th December 2010, 16:11
(Jester)
Although, to give him his due, he does use one full stop. The rest of it is pretty incomprehensible....

(Psssst - he is Scottish!)

Billieboy
29th December 2010, 19:33
c'mon lads, nearly fifty years ago the girls in Yokohama and all the other ports in Japan were the friendliest one could meet anywhere East of Suez. The men never bothered me, at that time although in the dockyard they were extremely respectful and apparently very competent. Later in the Eighties I had many dealings with Japanese companies and their representatives were always most friendly and businesslike.

So let's give up carping; then, was a long time ago, not as long as Korea, Biafra, 'Nam, Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia, or any other, places similar to the Falklands.

Time, as they say heals all wounds.

Donald McGhee
29th December 2010, 20:35
I guess if we really wanted to harp on about historic abuses and atrocities we should remember who invented concentration camps/ gave smallpox infected blankets to indigenous people/ had the biggest empire based on extracting wealth etc to the detriment of the locals, ignored starving people in an adjoining island (Ireland) etc, etc/ The British, God Bless us.

Of course we're over it, but the horrible Japanese and Germans, Serbs, Koreans etc, etc never will be?

This reminds me of our own 'original inhabitants' here in NZ, who just can't get over the past. Today is what matters, although the past has shaped who and what we are and, sadly, how we see others.

Where did that aircraft carrier go?

Have a Happy New Year and wish all on this troubled planet the same.(Thumb)

senior pilot
11th January 2011, 16:06
come on give us a break from this drivel history is history all nations are as bad as each other, let's look to the future.

charles henry
14th January 2011, 20:19
come on give us a break from this drivel history is history all nations are as bad as each other, let's look to the future.

First posting in this lot that makes sense.

If we are going to spend time thinking of past wrongs then do it properly, let hate whoever or whatever ate fish before we crawled out of the sea and became hoomans.
chas

NickNZ
19th January 2011, 06:56
come on give us a break from this drivel history is history all nations are as bad as each other, let's look to the future.

Drivel it may be to some. But I know there are a lot of 'senior' members who remember things they would rather forget.
Whilst I support the Japanese in what they are doing, I am interested in the opinions, and feelings of those that remember the 'limitations' placed on them after WW2, limitations that the Germans (to their credit) have respected.