Tracing Grandfather though his Pension

apttony
25th January 2011, 18:15
I'm trying to find out what happened to my grandfather Albert Thompson after 1935, the last record I can find of him. He would have been 55 at that time and was/had been a Marine Engineer.

I have copies of his CR2 and CR10 Cards, Certificates of Competency 1st & 2nd Class, various Crew Lists, places he lived, etc, but nothing after 1935. I don't know where he lived or died after that time.

I assume that he must have had some form of MN pension, the detaisl of which could lead me in the right direction.

Is this sort of information accessible and where would I find it?

Tony

Hugh MacLean
25th January 2011, 20:12
Hello Tony,
I presume the records you have are from the Fourth Register of Seamen [original cards held in Southampton]. Do you know if he served during WW2. I know his age would suggest not but many did serve into their sixties.
You could search the Fifth Register at Kew but I am afraid you will find no pension details recorded in seamen's records
Could you post his date and place of birth?

Regards

apttony
25th January 2011, 22:26
Hello Hugh,

Yes, I found his CR2 and CR10 Cards in Southampton (the archivist was explaining what I would find on the cards, turning over the top card from a small stack of similarly named cards, and the first card was his - I recognised the photo!), and his Certificates came from the National Maritime Museum.

His d.o.b. was 10 Aug 1880, Pendleton, Lancashire.

Are you suggesting that if he continued to work as a Marine Engineer, then he could well be listed in the Fifth Register ? There must have been a great demand in WW2 for his profession.

regards
Tony

Roger Griffiths
26th January 2011, 17:41
Hello Tony,
Could you let us have the numbers of his Certificates of Competency also any numbers next to his signature from the Crew Agreements.
Would any of the documents you have suggest that he worked for one shipping line for any amount of time?

Roger

apttony
26th January 2011, 18:36
Hello Roger,

CR 10 No of Identity certificate: 123433
Dis.A No. 360677
Certificate of Competency 1st Class Engineer. 46409

Lines include Blue Funnel, Commonwealth & Dominion Line / Port Line, Canadian Pacific, & Coastal Tankers Ltd

The last record I have so far is 1st Engineer on "Cerinthus", Hadley Shipping Co Ltd, 162461, dated 20 Sept 1930, South Shiels to USA to Manchester (6/11/1930).


I know that the Cerinthus was sunk during WW2. Is there a record of the Crew List for that voyage in the form of those that died & those that survived?

regards
Tony

Hugh MacLean
26th January 2011, 19:37
Is there a record of the Crew List for that voyage in the form of those that died & those that survived?


Tony,
To answer your question - yes, the final crew agreement for CERINTHUS is held at Kew in piece reference BT 381/2057 (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=8208803&CATLN=6&Highlight=%2C162481&accessmethod=0). However, I can confirm he is not mentioned as a casualty of the sinking and he is not mentioned on the CWGC website as being lost in World War II due to enemy action.

Regards

apttony
26th January 2011, 19:40
Thank you, Hugh.

At least that eliminates one possibility

regards
Tony

Roger Griffiths
27th January 2011, 12:26
My gut feeling is he was not listed in the Fifth Register of Merchant seamen (1941-1972)
1/ You have records from the Fourth register, his CR2 and CR10 Cards. These would have been transfered to his "Seamans Pouch"
2/ He has no records in BT372
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=3&CATID=59234&SearchInit=4&SearchType=6&CATREF=bt372&j=1
3/ He has no WW2 medal listing
4/ Searching "Procat" with 360677 draws a blank.


That said I could be wrong and if you have not already done so, it may pay you to see if he has a CRS10 in BT382
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=8125093&CATLN=6&accessmethod=5

My guess is he died sometime after 1935
I have searched
GRO MARINE DEATHS INDICES 1935-1945 and there are no mention of his being lost at sea during that period. That said records for the war years for MN personal are somewhat sparse.
I have also searched my own records from BT334 1941-1944 and although there a a few A Thompsons listed they do not give a persons age.


Roger

apttony
29th January 2011, 14:25
Thanks Roger.


That said I could be wrong and if you have not already done so, it may pay you to see if he has a CRS10 in BT382


I raised a request on the TNA.............

1. Document Reference(s): BT 382/1788
Instructions for Copying: Looking for...........

Albert Thompson, Marine Engineer 1st Class CR 10 No of Identity certificate: 123433Dis.A No. 360677 Certificate of Competency 1st Class Engineer. 46409 Born 10 Aug 1880, Pendleton, Lancashire

....................but they have come back and said that "preliminary examination of your request shows that specific information within this document is not easily identifiable and will require research."

That makes it sound as though there is a considerable amount of records to wade through. Have you any idea as to whether this is possible in a visit of a couple of hours?

regards
Tony

Hugh MacLean
29th January 2011, 14:57
Tony,
All to common reply from Kew these days I am afraid. Form CRS 10 records are held in surname block at Kew and because the link that you have used is not to a specific named individual they will deem your request as research. I am presently trying to get some clarification from them about this but basically you will have to use their research services and they will come back to you with a quote which you can then decide if you wish to proceed with the order but be advised this will cost you roughly 45 but maybe more. Best option [no charges]if you or someone can visit Kew and copy the file.

Regards

apttony
29th January 2011, 16:48
Hugh,

Many thanks - looks like a visit to Kew needs to be scheduled !

regards
Tony