Apprentices/Cadets Journal

gadgee
3rd December 2005, 13:40
Came across a Journal Commendation from 1968 and attached for interest.

barnsey
20th May 2007, 12:54
What a drag the Journal was ..,... I well remember the valiant words of .... ???? someone ......" You will come to value this journal son" .....47 years later the bugger seems to have been correct. I still have mine and it is precious..

Barnsey

Split
20th May 2007, 14:47
What a drag the Journal was ..,... I well remember the valiant words of .... ???? someone ......" You will come to value this journal son" .....47 years later the bugger seems to have been correct. I still have mine and it is precious..

Barnsey

What did you put in it? Was it censored by the Old Man? I am curious about this because, in my company, the apprentices' opinions were kept under tight control, even the supers did not want to know about them. In fact, I don't think that it dawned on us that apprentices existed on any of the other company's ships. The less the communicataion between us, the better.

Did your journal get published,in any way, so that it was circulated to the other apprentices in the fleet and, if it was, was it an abridged (by the office) version?

Split

John_F
20th May 2007, 16:02
What did you put in it? Was it censored by the Old Man? I am curious about this because, in my company, the apprentices' opinions were kept under tight control, even the supers did not want to know about them. In fact, I don't think that it dawned on us that apprentices existed on any of the other company's ships. The less the communicataion between us, the better.

Did your journal get published,in any way, so that it was circulated to the other apprentices in the fleet and, if it was, was it an abridged (by the office) version?

Split
Split,
In BP, apprentices were meant to write a double sided sheet of foolscap per week. In it you were meant to keep a record of day to day happenings, tasks, where abouts you were, along with as much technical stuff & photos as you could manage. The Old Man read it every week & censored it accordingly. This, I felt, was more to avoid Marine Supers in London Office getting to know about things that it was better they didn't know about. As an apprentice, I was made well aware of this situation so studiously avoided putting anything in the journal that was contentious. The journals were never published & were "strictly private" between the individual apprentice & the Company. The journals were marked every 6 months for the following points:
Descriptive & Diary Material
Studies & professional subjects
Paintings, Sketches, Photos, etc.
Diagrams & Technical Photos
Style of writing
General Impression of Orderliness & Care.
I have attached a copy of the Head Office marking sheet to give you some idea.
Sadly (now), unlike Paul W, I didn't put as much into journal writing at the time. It was always regarded as a bind having to write it, especially if you were coasting & working all hours God sent. Like Barnsey, I still have it in its entirety along with all my letters home & one day I will transfer it all to CD for my kids' benefit - one day!
Kind regards,
John

James_C
20th May 2007, 16:46
John/Paul,
They were still inflicting it on Cadets 30 odd years later! Like yourself, John, I never put as much effort into maintaining it as I really should have done, however I value what I have.
I now make a point of keeping a diary at sea, it can be a bind, but it's invaluable at times.

wa002f0328
20th May 2007, 20:32
(Thumb) wish I had kept a diary over the years, and taken a few more pics,

pete8
22nd May 2007, 11:17
At the time,I found the twice weekly production of of the Journal a bit of a chore especially when catch up time had to be spent owing to time in port etc. I remember being ticked off by the old man for limiting my output somewhat by means of having very wide margins on either side of the the sheet.
And now, like others in this thread I am truly sorry that I did not make more effort....generally, my 4 years apprenticeship was very enjoyable and I find it puzzling that keeping the diary going was such a bind.

Pete8

barnsey
22nd May 2007, 14:05
Split ....

the others have summed it all up pretty well.

One item I always remember ..... being stuck for something to put in the journal one evening I asked my mate .. (one David Sainsbury from Bristol .. love to catch up with him one day if anyone knows where he is) what was the weight of Sparkies new Baby .... 16 1/2 lbs was the answer I wrote down ... !!! The Old man called me in on Sunday ..... have you ever seen a new born baby Barnes?? "yerst well, near enough newborn I think so" "Well, usually an 8pounder is considered a good size and that would be like shitting a Melon !!" :sweat:

Ah well ... Ive always remembered what a new born baby should roughly weigh !!

A Technical drawing extract from my journal as an example is attached... all my own work.

But it was drag ... remember asking kids ... "What have you done at school today?" ..... anyone who kept a Nav. Apps. Journal will have some sympathy.

John ... you mentioned one of your first jobs was loading fresh water ? Funnily enough that was also my very first job as nav. App. However we were not given very clear directions .... the Fire main had to be isolated as that was the line used to fill up with .... we shut off along the flying bridge but somehow we were not too sure about down aft ..... quiet a bit of Thames water went in we believe .... !!! I ask you putting a brand new apprentice on a job like that?

Barnsey(Scribe)

Sheddy
28th May 2007, 11:34
The first interview I had with BP was at rhe Station Hotel in Perth, followed by a trip to Brittanic House for Medicals etc.

I think the head of Apprentice Dept was someone by the name of Le Fev're, there was also a rather large gentleman who I had my first interview with.

When I went to London we were accomodated in a Cadets Training Hostel just off Cromwell Road, which was run on lines of a ship.

Anyone remember names from Training Dept, and hostel, dates would be from 60's onwards.????

gadgee
28th May 2007, 17:46
In mid 1966 I responded to an advert in the Birmingham Evening Mail for Navigating Cadets. Went to an Hotel in Brum for the interview with Ronnie Marsh(?) and stayed with BP until late 1971 when I decided that other types of ships may be more interesting and visit slightly more exotic ports!

Sheddy
28th May 2007, 19:37
Yes the name Ronnie Marsh kicked afew brain cells into place, my first interview was 66 and I joined the Merlin in the summer of 67, Left in 1974 after gaining my mates ticket at south Shields

John_F
29th May 2007, 21:26
Yes the name Ronnie Marsh kicked afew brain cells into place, my first interview was 66 and I joined the Merlin in the summer of 67, Left in 1974 after gaining my mates ticket at south Shields
I had my first interview with dear old Ronnie Marsh in 1958, him of the tinted glasses. He reminded me very much of that school teacher in the Giles cartoons (whose name I forget - anno domini striles again - & I will probably remember it as soon as I click on Submit Reply - Chalkie?) in the Daily Express.
Kind regards,
John.

paul0510
29th May 2007, 21:59
John,
aka 'The Living Skull'. God Bless him, good bloke....took me on!!!

barnsey
31st May 2007, 05:12
Ah YES!!! Dear old Ronnie .... I can remember the interview as though it was yesterday .... he was most insistent that "Tankers are not nasty smelly ships like they used to be ..... and so on..." he was dead set on persuading me to join and I was dead set on joining having visited British Valour at dear old Isle of Grain a short while before.....

Best decision we both made ... cough cough

Barnsey

ninabaker
9th May 2012, 01:24
I quite enjoyed doing the cadet's journal and found it a useful way to keep neat notes of technical tasks when i had found them tricky. But, yes, the old man did censor bits sometimes.

When I went back for Phase 1 at Plymouth my journal won a prize, I think it was something useless like the Shell Guide to Britain. In any case I dont have the prize any more. However, a million years later I did a PhD and got my journal bound the same as my thesis, gold lettering and all. A few years ago an academic interviewed me for some research about women in the oil industry and that prompted me to dig the journal out. I decided to donate it to the National Maritime Museum's archives and they were very pleased to have it. If anyone else here is thinking about what might happen to their precious journal after they have gone, then I know the archives woiuld be really pleased to get them.

I made an electronic copy of the journal, to appease my family.

I was a D/C and then 3/O in BP 1972-77 and then went to Bibby's.

nina

Mariner44
9th May 2012, 08:23
I found that postcards and photos were great fillers of space in my journal, and I still have them...but I ditched the journals when moving house in 1974. It would have been good not to have done that as the journals were a great source of info about my various trips and shipmates, but what's done is done.

I remember Ronnie Marsh, too, who interviewed me too. And his henchman, by the name of Sawyer. I think that. I have a photo of them - in the class photo of MAR course 2 in 1964 at the stack of bricks (KE2).

gadgee
9th May 2012, 21:35
.

. I decided to donate it to the National Maritime Museum's archives and they were very pleased to have it. If anyone else here is thinking about what might happen to their precious journal after they have gone, then I know the archives woiuld be really pleased to get them.

I made an electronic copy of the journal, to appease my family.


nina[/QUOTE]

Interesting Nina - not too sure that my sons will value mine which I keep safe and complete but if they do not want it then a good alternative

derekhore
11th May 2012, 09:33
I still have my Journal & my Deck Cadets Record Book - all signed up by people from long ago!!

jactaa
11th May 2012, 12:46
I still have my Journal & my Deck Cadets Record Book - all signed up by people from long ago!!

I still have my two cadet journals. the first journal, about 105 pages ,has been scanned.

I also have all my pay slips from cadet days.

20 years of letters to my girlfriend, fiance and wife we also saved.

A few years ago she supervised me burning them, at her request, also the letters which She had written To me.

I do miss reading the views I then held about life aboard the vessels I sailed in.
Don

xieriftips
12th May 2012, 18:30
What did you put in it? Was it censored by the Old Man? I am curious about this because, in my company, the apprentices' opinions were kept under tight control, even the supers did not want to know about them. In fact, I don't think that it dawned on us that apprentices existed on any of the other company's ships. The less the communicataion between us, the better.

Did your journal get published,in any way, so that it was circulated to the other apprentices in the fleet and, if it was, was it an abridged (by the office) version?

Split

After one censoring by the Mate on my second ship (on the orders of the OM!) mine became so bland (because I was damned if I was EVER going to have to rewrite another page!) it wasn't worth keeping. I still have the binder, though.

ninabaker
12th May 2012, 22:13
What did you put in it? Was it censored by the Old Man? I am curious about this because, in my company, the apprentices' opinions were kept under tight control, even the supers did not want to know about them. In fact, I don't think that it dawned on us that apprentices existed on any of the other company's ships. The less the communicataion between us, the better.

Did your journal get published,in any way, so that it was circulated to the other apprentices in the fleet and, if it was, was it an abridged (by the office) version?

Split

The Old Man had to sign the pages you had written, minimum 2 sides of foolscap per week, every sunday morning. He certainly censored bits of mine as I sometimes got too personal or made mistakes in what I thought I had understood about some task I was discribing.

The journals were part of the correspondence course requirement for all companies with cadets in the national scheme and had to be inspected when we went back to college for our Phase 1 after the first year at sea. Hence how a prize was awarded.

In the days when BP ran its own inhouse apprentices scheme, upon which the national scheme was very closely based, I think head office must have inspected them because there used to be an apprentice scheme newsletter with choice or amusing quotes from the journals. I was on a couple of older ships were back copies of these newsletters were still around and I found them absolutely fascinating.

I wonder if Graham Wallace has acquired any for his database.

Graham Wallace
13th May 2012, 01:18
Nina,

Off course I have some Apprentices Newsletters both the separate copies of Navigating and Engineering and some others when they were combined into one issue(earliest of these is volume III 1953 Number 10), about 20 bits and pieces in all.

The earliest copies of the Apprentices newsletter is Coronation year issue 1953, along with a similar sized issue of 'Anglo Iranin Oil company, 50 years of oil'.These were found on the Poplar just before she was scrapped in a binder of issues 1953 to1956. A full page in the front of the binder cautions that, ' This Newsletter may not in any circumstances be removed from the ship!"

I'm always looking for copies of Fleet News and Ships Movements which are almost as valuable as gold dust. I think the Apprentices Newsletters are even rarer. When did BP stop issuing these newsletters?

Cartoon characters of Rudolph the Engineering Apprentice and Joe the Navigating Apprentice appear in all copies . In issue 1953 Number 10 is a neat article by Gabby King on 'Rigs of the day", only for Nav Apps, the Engineering Apps not included, unfortunately we only had one rig of the day.

Graham

Long gone
14th May 2012, 14:10
When did BP stop issuing these newsletters?

Cartoon characters of Rudolph the Engineering Apprentice and Joe the Navigating Apprentice appear in all copies . In issue 1953 Number 10 is a neat article by Gabby King on 'Rigs of the day", only for Nav Apps, the Engineering Apps not included, unfortunately we only had one rig of the day.

Graham

The last copy I saw, and ever heard of, was when I was on my first trip E/C on the Liberty in December 1972.

I'm sure that, on the Gull, a couple of years later, I saw some Apprentices Newsletters going back to 1948; there was an article in one from a first trip N/A giving his impressions of joining the brand-new 'British Adventure'

Steve Hodges
30th July 2012, 23:09
This thread prompted me to rummage about in the bottom of the wardrobe and produce my Engineer Apprentices Notebook - we were all called cadets by 1968, but BP were still working through their old stock of ring binders. Notes from my six weeks "vacation training" at Caird & Rayners on Commercial Road, making evaporators; then my six months at Hawthorn Leslie on Tyneside making Sulzer diesels; followed by "Sea Service Notes" from my first trip on the Light. Anyone else remember cadging redundant charts off the 2/O to make fold-out piping diagrams? It's all there, the ghastly technical details of the Eyeties in my own fair hand - dear God, there's even a chapter on the SCAM evaporators, and one on the Ansaldo manoeuvring valve, still sends a shiver down the spine. Looks like I only did a little bit more work in the Notebook on my second trip on the Holly - wonder why that was? maybe as they had made me A/J/E I thought I didn't have to do it anymore......:confused:

Graham Wallace
31st July 2012, 01:37
This thread prompted me to rummage about in the bottom of the wardrobe and produce my Engineer Apprentices Notebook - we were all called cadets by 1968, but BP were still working through their old stock of ring binders. Notes from my six weeks "vacation training" at Caird & Rayners on Commercial Road, making evaporators; then my six months at Hawthorn Leslie on Tyneside making Sulzer diesels; followed by "Sea Service Notes" from my first trip on the Light. Anyone else remember cadging redundant charts off the 2/O to make fold-out piping diagrams? It's all there, the ghastly technical details of the Eyeties in my own fair hand - dear God, there's even a chapter on the SCAM evaporators, and one on the Ansaldo manoeuvring valve, still sends a shiver down the spine. Looks like I only did a little bit more work in the Notebook on my second trip on the Holly - wonder why that was? maybe as they had made me A/J/E I thought I didn't have to do it anymore......:confused:

Steve,

For one who collects all the old BP memorabilia I can get my hands on I think the Navigating Apprentices/Cadets journals are a wonderful piece of history , not so much their daily antics but the precise list of personnel abord with updates as old crew left and new joined. I only wish I as an EA had to do the same .

Our purple notebook was also interesting but in a different way, following all those pipelines etc was maddening at the time ,but so useful a practise that kept me out of hot water many a time. I left the Light as 4E nearly 12 years before you joined her. Following the principles learnt during my EA days kept he big B***** of a 2E off my back many a time though he delighted leading others around the engine room. looking back maybe it was a good thing ,but at the time was not taken in the best spirit.

We had a phrase at the time which meant 'get me off this ship'....GOTB which was scrawled in every hidden convienient spot, I wonder if some remained to your days?

Naturally we could never pay off a ship until it returned to UK, so it could be hell for some.

Graham

ninabaker
1st August 2012, 00:10
This thread prompted me to rummage about in the bottom of the wardrobe and produce my Engineer Apprentices Notebook - we were all called cadets by 1968, but BP were still working through their old stock of ring binders. Notes from my six weeks "vacation training" at Caird & Rayners on Commercial Road, making evaporators; then my six months at Hawthorn Leslie on Tyneside making Sulzer diesels; followed by "Sea Service Notes" from my first trip on the Light. Anyone else remember cadging redundant charts off the 2/O to make fold-out piping diagrams? It's all there, the ghastly technical details of the Eyeties in my own fair hand - dear God, there's even a chapter on the SCAM evaporators, and one on the Ansaldo manoeuvring valve, still sends a shiver down the spine. Looks like I only did a little bit more work in the Notebook on my second trip on the Holly - wonder why that was? maybe as they had made me A/J/E I thought I didn't have to do it anymore......:confused:

Actually, I always rather liked doing the pipeline diagrams and firefighting layouts on each new ship when I was a cadet and when I had to do my stint down the pit which all deck cadets had to do, I loved crawling around the bilges following lines.

Chart paper was the most beautiful paper for any drawing. I always scrounged some old ones to take home. I donated my journal to the NMS but still have all the correspondence course work we had to do whilst afloat.

Uricanejack
3rd August 2012, 11:20
I never had a journal as a cadet. Just the record book. which I still have along with my original sight book. at times now i wish I had kept a journal but of coure at the time beer and dogging off would have been much more important. My mom might have kept some of my old letters home. I rember being ordered to write. Apparently some bodys mum have not heard from sonny had recieved a copy of the Fleet News and read the Ships movments ending in Sunk FO. and not realising Sunk was an anchorage in the Thames created quite a sceen. And it was decreed all Masters had to ensure all cadets wrote home to thier mum at least once a month. Other odd thing still in my Mums posesion is my Original Indenture contract. which I never signed as I was underage. My Dad signed it so the contract was with BP and my Dad not me. a couple of years latter my dad recieved a very ters letter from the head of the cadet training department complaing i had neglected to send in any of my corespondance course and I would be unable to return to collage if I did not complete and send in with a satifactory passing grade prior to collage date. My dad was pretty mad at me. FortunatlyI did complete it in a rather half assed way. the Capt on my last ship before colladge Knew of my predicament so when I handed it it to him he didn't mail it till ship went back round the cape. so South Shield Marine and tech recieved it just a few days before I sat and passed my certificate. Fortunatly I have not had to show my record book to anybody since the examiner picked it up and said I supose there must be an interesting tale behind this.

Russell Hey
3rd August 2012, 13:27
This is a very interesting thread, I still have my Deck Cadet Record Book and remember having to do the Correspondence Course as part of the ONC Nautical Science. At no time did I have to fill in a journal. Maybe it was obsolete by 1978. The OM never insisted we write home either, although I did as a matter of course.

I loved that Record Book though, how easy was it just to scribble any old signature in the boxes you didn't want to do.

A.D.FROST
3rd August 2012, 13:59
(Ouch)The differance between an Apprentice and a Cadet is One can do what the other one thinks he can do!

ninabaker
3rd August 2012, 22:55
This is a very interesting thread, I still have my Deck Cadet Record Book and remember having to do the Correspondence Course as part of the ONC Nautical Science. At no time did I have to fill in a journal. Maybe it was obsolete by 1978. The OM never insisted we write home either, although I did as a matter of course.

I loved that Record Book though, how easy was it just to scribble any old signature in the boxes you didn't want to do.

I came to really hate the record book. Paying off a ship up the gulf, some of my hand luggage with my discharge book and record book in it was taken off me by the aircraft crew and because it wasnt labelled it got lost and when it hadnt turned up by the time I was to join the next ship, BP had to ask for new ones for me and I had to start filling in the wretched record book all over again.

I was about two years into my time so an awful lot of stuff had to be redone. The record book eventually turned up and the two were stuck together for my seatime evidence.

ninabaker
5th August 2012, 20:36
I have finally uploaded all the journal page images to flickr:

British Willow 1972 http://www.flickr.com/photos/8946321@N07/sets/72157629712326528/
British Cavalier 1973 http://www.flickr.com/photos/8946321@N07/sets/72157630915797320/
British Argosy 1973 http://www.flickr.com/photos/8946321@N07/sets/72157630916974870/


Some of the Willow and Argosy are also in the Cavalier as I got fuddled and then couldnt be bothered to weed them out. I recognise that this is a terribly awkward way to read them and will, someday pull them all back together as a pdf.

derekhore
5th August 2012, 21:39
Joining the Willow ... you write 'met Mr Crosbie' ---take it that was the C/O, John Wilde Crosbie?
If so - had a great trip with him as C/O on the Unity in 1971 .. Andy Peden was the other cadet.

GeorgeM13
5th August 2012, 23:25
If some of you are still looking for guidance on how to write your journal I can offer you this.
I still have some of my journal but its not for public consumption. Its only years later that that you wish you had written more. It was a bind at the time but could have been interesting reading now.
George

xieriftips
6th August 2012, 10:35
(Ouch)The differance between an Apprentice and a Cadet is One can do what the other one thinks he can do!

Aye, I was most p*ssed off when they renamed me a year before the end of my time!

joebuckham
6th August 2012, 10:43
(Ouch)The differance between an Apprentice and a Cadet is One can do what the other one thinks he can do!

i love conundrums, but you have me beaten which One is the apprentice and which One is the cadet.:confused:

Varley
6th August 2012, 12:14
i love conundrums, but you have me beaten which One is the apprentice and which One is the cadet.:confused:

That depends on whether you were an apprentice or a cadet!

ninabaker
6th August 2012, 22:56
Joining the Willow ... you write 'met Mr Crosbie' ---take it that was the C/O, John Wilde Crosbie?
If so - had a great trip with him as C/O on the Unity in 1971 .. Andy Peden was the other cadet.

Yes, Derek, That was JWC. i am now in touch with him by email and he continues to be a delightful guy. He sent me a BP cap badge stick pin the other day.

derekhore
7th August 2012, 08:18
Hi Nina ... have sent you a PM