Engineers Anonymous

Satanic Mechanic
28th March 2011, 11:10
Hello

My Name is Satanic and I can't hacksaw in a straight line(Sad)

Derek Roger
28th March 2011, 13:53
If you could file they might give you an office job ,

Satanic Mechanic
28th March 2011, 14:33
If you could file they might give you an office job ,

oooft[=P]

C'mon then - whats your Engineering blind spot - your free to tell here at EA, your amongst friends.(Hippy)

Ron Dean
28th March 2011, 15:12
oooft[=P]

C'mon then - whats your Engineering blind spot - your free to tell here at EA, your amongst friends.(Hippy)
I'm sorry for Satanic who just can't hack it.
My blind spot nowadays is sharpening twist drills (backing off). I've lost the touch since my apprentice days, which although 60 years ago, I'm sure the confidence of youth played a part as I can still feel & see & OK.

Satanic Mechanic
28th March 2011, 15:52
I'm sorry for Satanic who just can't hack it.
My blind spot nowadays is sharpening twist drills (backing off). I've lost the touch since my apprentice days, which although 60 years ago, I'm sure the confidence of youth played a part as I can still feel & see & OK.

Welcome Ron and thankyou for sharing your Engineering problem with us

Thats another Story
28th March 2011, 15:59
sm like any saw grip the handle but put your forefinger strait down the side and the blade will go were you point . if it helps. john(Hippy)

Satanic Mechanic
28th March 2011, 16:15
sm like any saw grip the handle but put your forefinger strait down the side and the blade will go were you point . if it helps. john(Hippy)

I've tried John I really have - but try as I may I have to face the facts - I am a bias sawer(Sad)

doncontrols
28th March 2011, 17:25
I have to confess to never, ever being able to sharpen a twist drill .... no matter how hard I tried .... just couldn't get it right :(

trotterdotpom
28th March 2011, 17:56
So it's true, Engineers don't know what "anonymous" means!

John T.

Ian J. Huckin
28th March 2011, 18:34
I'm really bad with wood.....

Reef Knot
28th March 2011, 18:59
I think this thread should end right here - you're being way to hard on yourselves. What do you expect? You're only engineers...

(Incoming! Run boy!!)

Tmac1720
28th March 2011, 19:03
I think this thread should end right here - you're being way to hard on yourselves. What do you expect? You're only engineers...

(Incoming! Run boy!!)

Says you making a bolt for the door.... (Jester)

We of the Brotherhood of the Spanner don't come here to be insulted... we usually go somewhere else.. (POP)

Satanic Mechanic
28th March 2011, 19:03
I'm really bad with wood.....

Your meant to be - your an engineer. This is an EA meeting - joiners anonymous is next door

John Farrell
28th March 2011, 19:09
I've never been able to tell the difference SM.

Billieboy
28th March 2011, 19:24
Well, after a lot of thought, I suppose my worst bit, is that I cannot bear to watch a doxford running.

Winebuff
28th March 2011, 20:09
Well, after a lot of thought, I suppose my worst bit, is that I cannot bear to watch a doxford running.

I found the running ones a joy to watch, it was the broken ones which ruined my day.

Tmac1720
28th March 2011, 20:18
Hello

My Name is Satanic and I can't hacksaw in a straight line(Sad)

Better keep your hands off the oxy burner as well then...(Smoke)

KIWI
28th March 2011, 20:23
A lot of of the every day things such as putting a nut on a screw is done these days purely by instinct.Cannot see a thing.Sharpening a twist drill is just a memory.Remember when the tradesman you worked with said"do this lad the old eyes are not so good" & you thought him a silly old bugger? KIWI

spongebob
28th March 2011, 20:52
Nobody has mentioned how they cope with nuts, the essence of a mechanical engineer.

Bob

Derek Roger
28th March 2011, 21:07
My brother ( a member of SN who never posts ) so I will log him into EA ; when he was a junior on Moss tankers MV Luxor was limited by the 2nd Eng to only using wrenches on bolts of 7/8 inch or more . He had a tendancy to shear all he touched .

Probably why he ended up Scottish Senior hammer champion at one time and came 7th in the Senior Olympics held in Newcastle some years ago.

JoK
28th March 2011, 21:55
Funny you say that Derek, I used to go behind all of the bigger engineers and tighten flange bolts that they hadn't tighten enough. They were afraid to break the bolts, where I wasn't likely too.
I fear that twist drill sharpening was not my high point either. And in 16 years at sea, I confess that I never did one mechanical seal. But I did pack a lot of glands.

Macphail
28th March 2011, 22:15
Gas axe hoses, oxy or acetylene. left and right hand threads.
Try to reconnect in the poor light !*!*!.
Help.

Macphail
28th March 2011, 22:31
(Thumb)Post #21 by JOK.

JOK..
The mechanical seal,.
The main thing is to read the instructions in the box. Remove the old seal complete,
Clean everything up with lint free rags. Install the new seal as per makers instructions.
Make sure that the running faces are bright and polished.

A piece of P*ss.

All the best,

John

Derek Roger
28th March 2011, 22:33
Funny you say that Derek, I used to go behind all of the bigger engineers and tighten flange bolts that they hadn't tighten enough. They were afraid to break the bolts, where I wasn't likely too.
I fear that twist drill sharpening was not my high point either. And in 16 years at sea, I confess that I never did one mechanical seal. But I did pack a lot of glands.

Drill sharpening was easy once I found a little jig to bolt to the grinder ; carried it about for years . ( you should requisition some ; save a bundle of bucks in drills )
Regading mechanical seals they were a nightmare on MV Mahout when going up the Hoogley to Calcutta ( the river at certain times of year would be like sand soup . One wee grain of sand would get between the faces and that was the end of that ; water p1ssing out all over the place . Company eventualy replaced all the mechanical seals with conventional packing glands ; Happy days .


Derek

MARINEJOCKY
28th March 2011, 23:07
We of the Brotherhood of the Spanner don't come here to be insulted... we usually go somewhere else.. (POP)

Try being me on the Coasties thread if you want to be insulted (ballet)

eldersuk
28th March 2011, 23:27
Twist drill sharpening - no problem, in fact any sharpening job, but welding - pure pigeon sh1t!

Derek

JoK
29th March 2011, 00:06
now welding in a sea is an art with a rolling ship that had a kick to the stern. I used the biggest rods I could find and just laid the weld in. Mind you it was only good on structural steel. I think I'd have bubblegum if I tried my hand at welding now!

Derek Roger
29th March 2011, 00:46
Try being me on the Coasties thread if you want to be insulted (ballet)

Malcom you are being evil ; have not told us yet what your engineering problem was .
I am still trying to figure out what mine was . It will be posted soon when I KICK IN .
Derek

MARINEJOCKY
29th March 2011, 01:08
I think mine was thinking I knew more than the Chief when I was 4/E and then thinking I could work as hard as a 4/E when I was a Chief.

PS. I think SM went to a different college than I did, we were given one hacksaw blade, one file and a file brush and told to take the 6" diameter bar that had been burnt off and we had to turn it into a 1" cube. Some found it hard especially after a few beers around the corner from Stow College in Glasgow.

surfaceblow
29th March 2011, 01:12
I had to get a Automatic Drill sharpening machine for the small drills after I seeing the shape of the drills in the shop. Every time I needed to drill some holes I had to resharpen the drill bits I need for my project. While I was sharpening my hand full of drills my pile was getting bigger has the other Engineers left their broken and dull bits in my pile. It seems as the drill sharpening skills is lacking or they just did not want to bother. It's easier to get a new drill bit out of the stores.

The last welding job I did while underway was installing new drain line. The hull would sweat and the moisture would collect on the deck. So when the shipped rolled the water would rain down the ladder to the lower levels. Since my overhead welding use to look like bird droppings and my previous electric welding was twenty years earlier. I installed one end of the pipe couplings in the shop so I only had to weld four downward fillet welds in the engine room plus the brackets.

Joe

Chillytoes
29th March 2011, 02:45
When I was an apprentice, to sharpen drills, we used a piece of whitewashed board with a bit of wire stuck in the board bent up at right angles and sharpened to a point. The idea was you picked the centre of the drill spindle with the wire's point and made a mark with each of the drill's flutes on the whitewash. That was how you kept the flutes level. Might have spent half a day trying to drill with the wrong angle, but with level flutes you never wandered off centre.

Blackal
29th March 2011, 06:18
I remember my father borrowing the ship's electric drill-sharpener for the weekend (the ship was bearthed locally)........

All I remember, is that by Sunday evening - all he had was a lot of very short drills :(

Maybe they have improved in the intervening years..........

Drill sharpening to me was a very hit-or-miss affair, but in the old 'low budget' deepsea days - there was no alternative.

Al :)

JoK
29th March 2011, 11:38
I think mine was thinking I knew more than the Chief when I was 4/E and then thinking I could work as hard as a 4/E when I was a Chief.

PS. I think SM went to a different college than I did, we were given one hacksaw blade, one file and a file brush and told to take the 6" diameter bar that had been burnt off and we had to turn it into a 1" cube. Some found it hard especially after a few beers around the corner from Stow College in Glasgow.

The 1" cube, I did that. Did you do the equilateral triangle? That was filing a triangle and fitting into a triangle shape that you also filed. Days and days of filing. Then I went to a recip steamer and spent more days filing valve chests on pumps. They hadn't been done in years so there was a ledge at the end of the steam valve travel. I had a file that we heated and bent into a u-shape for the rough work. Then it was grinding paste. I thought I was going to go out the backside of the housing I filed so much.

MARINEJOCKY
29th March 2011, 12:11
did not do the triangle thank goodness, the cube was bad enough.

I am surprised that anybody would have trouble sharpening drills, if you had been on a steam boat and re-packed as many glands as I seemed to be given to do you would be able to sharpen drills.

The number of gland studs I broke and had to drill out is testiment to that. If you did not get it right you would never drill them out or you would go off to one side. I have tried the "Drill Doctor" sharpening tool but would rather do them by hand.

Satanic Mechanic
29th March 2011, 12:52
did not do the triangle thank goodness, the cube was bad enough.

I am surprised that anybody would have trouble sharpening drills, if you had been on a steam boat and re-packed as many glands as I seemed to be given to do you would be able to sharpen drills.

The number of gland studs I broke and had to drill out is testiment to that. If you did not get it right you would never drill them out or you would go off to one side. I have tried the "Drill Doctor" sharpening tool but would rather do them by hand.

So Brother 'Jockey' you have a steam valve gland stud problem - welcome to EA

And to you Broth - er Sister JoK with your mechanical seal admission

chadburn
29th March 2011, 12:58
Junker's rings(Sad)

John Farrell
29th March 2011, 13:06
Who mastered drilling out Cyliner Head Studs?

MAK451AK particularly prone to developing the need for this skill. Surprised?
Never encountered this problem with Pielstick...................... (In Line)

lazyjohn
29th March 2011, 14:04
(Thumb)Post #21 by JOK.

JOK..
The mechanical seal,.
The main thing is to read the instructions in the box. Remove the old seal complete,
Clean everything up with lint free rags. Install the new seal as per makers instructions.
Make sure that the running faces are bright and polished.

A piece of P*ss.

All the best,

John

I agree, by and large.

I remember we were given some split mechanical seals to try. Split as in two semi circular sections to fit without removing the shaft. Steel faces over red plastic body material. They were rubbish unless the shaft was 'puuuurfectly' balanced, i.e hardly deflecting clock guage at all when running. (and even then they didn't last long)

Did anybody else take on experimental stuff like that?

Reef Knot
29th March 2011, 14:19
Junker's rings(Sad)Hey, c'mon! Some of us are mere mortals! Speak English!

Derek Roger
29th March 2011, 14:58
As an apprentice @ the Springburn Annex of Stow during phase 3 we were given a filing test to make a male/ female gauge out of 1/8 plate . The shape was a square .
It was a slow process and I was having difficulty . I took them home to my digs where my landlord who was a fitter / toolmaker with Barr & Stroude showed me how it was done . His hobby was making model steam engines from scratch .
When he was finished the two pieces mated so perfectly the teacher could not get them apart without a mallet . I actually did the final filing myself with very fine draw files so was able to proclaim that I had done the work ( with some tongue in cheek ) I am sure I was not believed .
Hope no one reading this will recind my tickets .

Derek

JoK
29th March 2011, 16:40
Naughty Derek, I distinctly remembering enough daylight in the cracks around my triangle to read a book by. I think they passed me so I would just go away and leave them alone.

Ian J. Huckin
29th March 2011, 17:49
I have to confess to never, ever being able to sharpen a twist drill .... no matter how hard I tried .... just couldn't get it right :(

Do remember the old trick to check the cutting angle (not the rake or clearance)?

Satanic Mechanic (Wave) - I was pretty handy with Lignum Vitae though...

Ian J. Huckin
29th March 2011, 17:54
As an apprentice @ the Springburn Annex of Stow during phase 3 we were given a filing test to make a male/ female gauge out of 1/8 plate . The shape was a square .
It was a slow process and I was having difficulty . I took them home to my digs where my landlord who was a fitter / toolmaker with Barr & Stroude showed me how it was done . His hobby was making model steam engines from scratch .
When he was finished the two pieces mated so perfectly the teacher could not get them apart without a mallet . I actually did the final filing myself with very fine draw files so was able to proclaim that I had done the work ( with some tongue in cheek ) I am sure I was not believed .
Hope no one reading this will recind my tickets .

Derek

I used to get quite a few beers from apprentices by challenging them to file within 0.001" of a measurement. I told them I could. They would heave and scratch and never got it...so I would make a big deal of filing a piece first and then measuring it...then add 0.001" and, true enough, I had filed to within 0.001". Sneaky.....

chadburn
29th March 2011, 18:01
Hey, c'mon! Some of us are mere mortals! Speak English!

They are a "special" design of piston ring and backing spring fitted to the L.P. piston on an a steam up and downer.

Derek Roger
29th March 2011, 18:07
Junk Ring fish plate ; file it out with a round file to lt the ring out till it touched the liner wall ; then a little bit more to allow for wear . If you dont let the ring out it blows the packing out of the gland .

Reef Knot
29th March 2011, 18:41
They are a "special" design of piston ring and backing spring fitted to the L.P. piston on an a steam up and downer.Ah!! I get it! And you've broken a few in your life, have you? ;)

(Wave) Thanks!

Billieboy
29th March 2011, 19:43
Nobody has mentioned how they cope with nuts, the essence of a mechanical engineer.

Bob

Only one way to deal with nuts, rotten/seized, a cold chisel and a two pound hammer whose handle has been fitted to your right (left) hand, anywhere between two and twenty hits deals with any nut from 5/8" to 1 1/2" BSW. The cold chisel is one you made as an apprentice and tempered yourself.

surfaceblow
29th March 2011, 20:15
The high school I went to you had to take pattern making, and machine shop for the first two years plus all of the academic subjects before deciding on a major. When I got to the Calhoon Engineering School in the First Phase Shop Class the instructor had us cut flat stock to make a C Clamp. We were told to file one end square to lay out the project and we could use any tools that we knew how to use. Since I did not have to much to file to lay the square and lay out the surfaces that needed to be cut. I went to the tools locker for the Bridgeport Milling Machine tools. While I was setting up the Milling Machine the Department Head came by to watch for a few minutes and left. Just after I was finished with my cuts to the C Clamp and was cleaning up the Milling Machine the class instructor came by and asked me who told me that I could use the Milling Machine. When I answered that he did by telling use we could use any tool that we knew how to use. I was send to the Head of the Department Office to explain why I was using the equipment without permission. The Department Head offered me coffee and asked me when did I got my Journeyman Papers. After talking for a few minutes it was decided that I should repair the Lathes and other equipment instead of fabricating tools that I already made in high school. So I missed out on having to remake the tools of the trade.

Joe

Graham Wallace
29th March 2011, 21:01
I’m like Derek Roger, cannot really make up my mind up; the best of the worst or the worst of the best !

Never was too good with a hacksaw, still feel it was the tool, not me. It had a mind of its own especially with a vertical cut in a vise. Basically awful bloody things ..... they need a redesign.

Pretty good dab hand with hammer and chisel, Rusty deck nut splitting my forte, though still have the arthritis in the left thumb and forefinger, luckily not affecting my golf. How the heck did we ever do that with non ferrous tools?

Filing, depended upon the size of the file and the importance of the job, on a par with hack sawing. Thought draw filing was ‘neat’. Why all those odd names, wonder how they came upon Bastard?

Lathework, another speciality: Especially good at turning screw threads, excellent grinding toolsteel bit profile, a doddle working gearing out. Set up just great! Beautiful feeling as the engaging lever snicked into position........ and then the saddle and tool proceeded off in the direction of the tailstock!!

I spent Summer of 1957 installing workshop equipment in the then new unopened South Shields Tech ( Westoe), including the turning of many test pieces to be used on the IZod tensile testing machines........Hey, don’t blame me if your stress test results were incorrect!

Was prone to shearing off a few small diameter studs, broken stud extraction a nightmare. Not the big stuff tho, pounding with a ‘LARGE’ hammer on the blunt end of a huge ring wrench that some other idiot was holding with a tensioned rope.......only on one Doxford ship, moved over to turbines! Remembered as an Eng App completely destroying one of the Chief’s treasured adjustable (Crescent) wrenches.................his fault not mine!, we engineers should not be using them!

Electric Welding was a ‘black satanic art’, never could see damn all through the hood, never sure where the work was, and the resulting welding flux gas produced was not conducive to good health. Now gas welding was much more an art I could handle .

Drill sharpening another problem, technically understood it all, 120 degree angles etc and especially the ‘back grind’ to prevent the personal fright as the drill bit grabbed into ferrous metal causing mayhem. Now all I use are small diameter, take care of them and they do not need regrinding, hopefully!

Memories are getting dim, that was one hell of a time ago.

Nowadays everthing I do is perfect so nothing to admit to.

Graham

JoK
29th March 2011, 22:24
Only one way to deal with nuts, rotten/seized, a cold chisel and a two pound hammer whose handle has been fitted to your right (left) hand, anywhere between two and twenty hits deals with any nut from 5/8" to 1 1/2" BSW. The cold chisel is one you made as an apprentice and tempered yourself.

I brought wrenches and a hack saw, sawed through the nut and bolt about half way and snap the bolt. It was added incentive working on deck in -28*C. I always finished before whoever was with me. This is on flanges mind you, that you can get at.
How about water piston rings on steam recip pumps? You had to cut them to fit the liner, soak them in hot water to soften them, then fit them on the piston. After I was on the steamer for about a year, I used to do pretty all of them. It was tricky on some of the pumps because the liners were wore so bad and had the ridge on the top that you had to wiggle the piston and ring by without snapping the ring.
You know I can picture the rings but for the life of me can't remember what the material is ...

spongebob
29th March 2011, 22:54
The turning side of my apprenticeship was my downfall, although there was a lot of satisfaction in finally truing up a large angle valve in a four jaw chuck before re-machining the seat or machining multi faces on a big raw casting my nemesis was sharpening and shaping those bits of Balfour tool steel before the days of tip tools, ceramic tips and the alike luxuries.
Grinding a thread form was the biggest challenge and my locker was full of near new die nuts for that final chase to obtain a satisfactory fit and finish.
I still have old roll your own cigarette tobacco tins full of bits of Balfour that can bring on a shudder.
Strangely enough I never had much trouble with the rock and roll of small drill sharpening.

Bob

Duncan112
29th March 2011, 23:19
I brought wrenches and a hack saw, sawed through the nut and bolt about half way and snap the bolt. It was added incentive working on deck in -28*C. I always finished before whoever was with me. This is on flanges mind you, that you can get at.
How about water piston rings on steam recip pumps? You had to cut them to fit the liner, soak them in hot water to soften them, then fit them on the piston. After I was on the steamer for about a year, I used to do pretty all of them. It was tricky on some of the pumps because the liners were wore so bad and had the ridge on the top that you had to wiggle the piston and ring by without snapping the ring.
You know I can picture the rings but for the life of me can't remember what the material is ...

Ebonite, a type of rubber that has been hard vulcanised.

Sometimes you needed to take the liner out and machine the wear ridge off the bronze casting - if you were exceptionally unlucky and had to change the liner the new ones were supplied unmachined on the outside diameter and had to be turned to fit the pump body.

JoK
29th March 2011, 23:59
ebonite that's it! well, it has been over 25 years since I've had to do it, good reason to forget. I never had to do the liners, though the bilge pump was just about done. I remember having a dandy time the last time I did the water end.
Whoever scrapped the old girl made a few dollars on brass. The feed pumps, extraction pumps, auxiliary pump water ends, condensers, were all brass. On the exhaust from the engines to the condensers was a 24" gate valve. We could shut the valve, work on the engine and still have a vacuum in the condenser. Handy when you were against the wall.

eldersuk
30th March 2011, 00:14
You know I can picture the rings but for the life of me can't remember what the material is ...

Think it was called Lignite????

Derek

Derek Roger
30th March 2011, 00:59
I think Ebonite rings a bell as in post 52 .

MARINEJOCKY
30th March 2011, 01:03
Derek,

...and to think you called me evil.

It is so good to be posting on an engneers thread instead of dealing with that bull on the other thread.

At least we can all tell tales on here and have a laugh about it.

I was brought in one time to remove pistons that had the bolts overtightened. I used the ships gear to no avail and then get to hiring higher pressure pumps from ashore which happened to be in Glasgow (a spanish ship managered by my owner).

I was pumping those bolts up and still nothing happening. My behind was titching and I even made a steel shield thinking something was going to blow. I can not remember the pressure we got to before the nuts came loose but it was about 3 times the recommended and when the nut came loose there was this almighty crack and we all ran like heck. A case of Tennants got us back on course.

surfaceblow
30th March 2011, 02:18
I was on a ship in the lagoon of Diego Garcia with a shore gang and Engine Department were doing the ABS required inspections and maintenance on the B & W Main Engine. Part of the maintenance was the tightening of the engine tie down rods. The last tie rod to be re-torqued broke with 400 bar pressure on the jack. The tie rod broke one thread out of the bottom nut so the entire rod shot out of the engine and was stopped by the hose connected to the jack pulling the pump across the deck. There was a small pop when the tie rod broke followed by a larger bang when the tie rod landed back into the engine. I was told that the report made by the tie rod landing back into the engine was heard ashore.

Since the tie rod that broke was at the coupling end of the engine we removed the tie rod from center of the engine and installed it where the tie rod was broken and calculated what the safe operating speed would be with the one broken tie rod. After a few phone calls and messages flying around B & W agreed with the operating speed limitations that I had calculated. The lower part of the tie rod was brought up on deck and arrangements we came to have the tie rod sent to Singapore to have a new one made or repaired. The company also ordered a new tie rod from B & W.

The two pieces of the tie rod was packaged up so it could be flow out of Diego Garcia Each time a Cargo Plane was to leave with the tie rod one of the MSC Port Engineers runners would come out to the ship to pick up the out going part but when they found out the part was 27 feet long they declined to hand carry it to the plane. We finally got the broken section of the tie rod off the ship and on to the monthly cargo ship. After sitting in the lagoon for almost two months the repaired tie rod and the new on from Copenhagen arrived and the repaired section of tie rod was installed.

It was the only time a company every told me not to do maintenance on an engine while in port.

Joe

Thats another Story
30th March 2011, 09:55
here's one for the engineers? i have always been one for sorting out problems BUT when the grand kids come around for visits i try to fold down these new finagled push chairs does anyone else have this problem? pull this press that twist this fold that same with car seats. i could take the guts out of a house safely and rebuild it but fold a pram no chance.john[=P]

Satanic Mechanic
30th March 2011, 10:03
here's one for the engineers? i have always been one for sorting out problems BUT when the grand kids come around for visits i try to fold down these new finagled push chairs does anyone else have this problem? pull this press that twist this fold that same with car seats. i could take the guts out of a house safely and rebuild it but fold a pram no chance.john[=P]

If you don't get an answer here you could put on the compulsory cardigan and try Grandads Anonymous three doors along - just follow the pipe smoke(Thumb)

JoK
30th March 2011, 10:40
No help here, I once tried to put up a playpen and it was impossible. The Mom came in gave it a shake with a twist of her wrist and the thing popped open and in place.

Thats another Story
30th March 2011, 10:49
i must confess we took one grandchild out to the shopping centre my sons wife put the child seat folded the push chair strapped him in away we went we got the push chair up OK getting the bloody thing to fold down? i finished up the wife got a black taxi home because it would go in with him sitting in it and i followed in the car.john

MARINEJOCKY
30th March 2011, 11:13
what size of hammer are you using, try the next size up and if that does not work try the next one and so on until you become a real engineer (*))

Thats another Story
30th March 2011, 11:31
what size of hammer are you using, try the next size up and if that does not work try the next one and so on until you become a real engineer (*))
MJ the very first job i had was demolition one of your first trials of the boss MR J ROUTLEDGE had a 56lb hammer called a two man tupp
designed for two men to stand shoulder to shoulder it had two shafts to hold and swing he had it in his office the only thing he had one handle taken off and his opening words in his gruff voice if you can't swing that son you are no good here{true} i got the job till i got the call from odyssey works months later.john{no wonder me backs gone}[=P](Hippy)

Pat Thompson
30th March 2011, 11:48
Greetings,

John you are a braver man than I am in taking on the "Clankies". Being a "Deck Ape" I always thought that the definition of an Engineer was someone who washed his hands before he went to the lavatory (dermatitis of the willie and all that). That was, in fact, until we were in serious extremis (double negatively based positive there). That's when I learned that in extremis the "clankies" were a breed apart. Fearless in the face of "Penile Dermatitis" they worked their socks off (well them as actually wore them) as they sought out the holy grail of a case of beer, usually provided by the Chief Engineer and generally on the poop (out of sight of the deck apes) when normality was restored. In reality, Engineers never washed their hands after a visit to the Heads, they were smart enough not to pee on their hands in the first place.

lazyjohn
30th March 2011, 11:58
here's one for the engineers? i have always been one for sorting out problems BUT when the grand kids come around for visits i try to fold down these new finagled push chairs does anyone else have this problem? pull this press that twist this fold that same with car seats. i could take the guts out of a house safely and rebuild it but fold a pram no chance.john[=P]

Same as for mobile phone texting. Just get a small child to do it.

Anyway you can loose a finger in those folding joints, so its best left to tiny fingers.(LOL)

Well, it works for me, anyway.

PAULD
30th March 2011, 13:03
Had to do a reverse rim alignment last year had to get a text book out to remind myself how to draw/calculate out the shimming. Hadn't done that since i was a apprentice.
Drill sharpening :- cant even see the end of the small ones now even with my glasses on to grind, use reading glasses but focal lenght is wrong for drill sharpening would nee to get my face to close to the wheel. I get the appertice's to do it for me now and inspect afterwards but dont complain if its wrong just try to advise them how to do it right

Philthechill
30th March 2011, 16:22
I'm really bad with wood.....

You mucky bugger-----------WE know what you mean with your, "I'm really bad with wood--------". SHAME on you there could be children reading!!!!! Phnaaar! Phnaaar! Phnaaar! Salaams, Phil(Hippy)

Philthechill
30th March 2011, 16:58
Hello

My Name is Satanic and I can't hacksaw in a straight line(Sad) John! I know exactly what you're doing wrong 'cos I used to have the same problem when I was using a hacksaw. This "going-off-line" manifests itself even more when cutting thin plate!!!

You're putting TOO much effort into it. By this I mean you're really "forcing" the blade and, in doing so, the blade distorts and goes "off-line". If you just let the saw-blade "do its work" without pushing so hard you'll find you can saw a straight line without any problems at all.

Use a brand-new blade, the first time you try this out, as it will need even less effort, (in fact you could even do the job "one-handed" which will prove my point even more convincingly). We tend to "push" worn blades quite hard as our brain tells us that we really do need to push hard to counteract the worn teeth. Salaams, Phil(Hippy)

Satanic Mechanic
30th March 2011, 17:27
John! I know exactly what you're doing wrong 'cos I used to have the same problem when I was using a hacksaw. This "going off-line" manifests itself even more when cutting thin plate!!!

You're putting TOO much effort into it. By this I mean you're really "forcing" the blade and, in doing so, the blade distorts and goes "off-line". If you just let the saw-blade "do its work" without pushing so hard you'll find you can saw a straight line without any problems at all.

Use a brand-new blade, the first time you try this out, as it will need even less effort, (in fact you could even do the job "one-handed" which will prove my point even more convincingly). We tend to "push" worn blades quite hard as our brain tells us that we really do need to push hard to counteract the worn teeth. Salaams, Phil(Hippy)

I'll give it a go while I am on board on Monday and get back to you. Its true I am quite prone to giving it an 'extra turn'

Satanic Mechanic
30th March 2011, 17:29
You mucky bugger-----------WE know what you mean with your, "I'm really bad with wood--------". SHAME on you there could be children reading!!!!! Phnaaar! Phnaaar! Phnaaar! Salaams, Phil(Hippy)


How about PAULD and his 'Reverse Rim Alignment'

Utter Filth

Thats another Story
30th March 2011, 17:34
SM that sounds very painfull i wonder what ward he's in(Hippy)[=P]

cueball44
30th March 2011, 19:35
Hello

My Name is Satanic and I can't hacksaw in a straight line(Sad)You have to make sure that the base is solid and level, also address the area that you are working on by being in the correct position, make sure that you have tightened the blade, any play will cause it to deviate from the line that you want to cut, make sure you are sober.(Wave) 'cueball44'

Billieboy
30th March 2011, 20:48
There was an apprentice I knew, who gave the shop foreman a lot of lip one day, later, he was taught how to make a hacksaw frame to take a standard blade. When the hacksaw was finished he was given a large box of blades and a chitty to draw unlimited new ones from the tool store. He was also given a length of rail, (standard gauge), and told to saw it into one foot sections. At the end of the week he apologised to the shop foreman; he cannot cut off a straight line with a hacksaw, whether scribed or not!

Satanic Mechanic
30th March 2011, 20:51
You have to make sure that the base is solid and level, also address the area that you are working on by being in the correct position, make sure that you have tightened the blade, any play will cause it to deviate from the line that you want to cut, make sure you are sober.(Wave) 'cueball44'

Done all that CB to the point I'm nearly transcendental as i pick up the saw - 30 seconds later i am usually anything but transcendental - closer to incandescent.

Thats another Story
30th March 2011, 21:09
how is it in my minds eye i can see SM like a Kenny everett sketch blood and fingers on the shop floor(Hippy)[=P]

Satanic Mechanic
30th March 2011, 21:12
how is it in my minds eye i can see SM like a Kenny everett sketch blood and fingers on the shop floor(Hippy)[=P]


Screaming at the hacksaw - "I'm a f-ing engineer you bassa" - about right

cueball44
30th March 2011, 21:34
Done all that CB to the point I'm nearly transcendental as i pick up the saw - 30 seconds later i am usually anything but transcendental - closer to incandescent.Maybe you are using the wrong hand, things start to go wrong when using the wrong hand, if that don't work use both at the same time.(Scribe) 'cueball44'

Satanic Mechanic
30th March 2011, 21:39
Maybe you are using the wrong hand, things start to go wrong when using the wrong hand, if that don't work use both at the same time.(Scribe) 'cueball44'

Careful - you'll have Chilly on to you!!!

MARINEJOCKY
30th March 2011, 23:19
use a plasma cutter

MARINEJOCKY
30th March 2011, 23:21
and DR you spoke too soon I see, 4 days and they are back

PS it is an American thing (*))

dom
30th March 2011, 23:25
Nobody has mentioned how they cope with nuts, the essence of a mechanical engineer.

Bob

they lock them up dont they??

Derek Roger
30th March 2011, 23:52
and DR you spoke too soon I see, 4 days and they are back

PS it is an American thing (*))

Beatles " Let It Be "

eldersuk
30th March 2011, 23:52
When I was an apprentice I once hit my hand with the hammer when using a cold chisel. The chargehand took out a piece of chalk and made a cross on the end of the chisel. "Just hit the cross son and you'll be OK."
And do you know, he was right!

Derek

Billieboy
31st March 2011, 08:16
When I was an apprentice I once hit my hand with the hammer when using a cold chisel. The chargehand took out a piece of chalk and made a cross on the end of the chisel. "Just hit the cross son and you'll be OK."
And do you know, he was right!

Derek

Well known as, "Hammer Rash", very painful for the first week, but then it seemed to dissapear. A neighbor, who is a brilliant welder, was amazed when I cut a lock slot into his steel pipe gatepost with a chisel, he said that he'd never seen a chisel talk before!

John Farrell
31st March 2011, 08:43
Billieboy, a question. Is Bolier still operating out of Dordrecht? I recall they were MAK specialists.

Philthechill
31st March 2011, 08:53
Maybe you are using the wrong hand, things start to go wrong when using the wrong hand, if that don't work use both at the same time.(Scribe) 'cueball44' Oy, Cube Ball 44, I've got my beady-eye on you!

You MUST remember that the majority of Members of this hallowed "Site" have steered a very blame-free course, through life, (ESPECIALLY the one's who had purple rings!!!!!!!), and your smutty, suggestive, remarks could cause great offence-----------so think on!!!! Salaams, Phil(Hippy)
P.S. I must point-out one thing before you mucky-minded so-and-so's twist it! When I mentioned "purple rings", I meant, of course, the purple rings round the sleeve of your uniform jacket!!!!!

Billieboy
31st March 2011, 08:55
Billieboy, a question. Is Bolier still operating out of Dordrecht? I recall they were MAK specialists.

They should be, but their office is in Papendrecht; close to Dordrecht but on the other side of the river; MAK were in the process of being taken over by MAN-B&W in the mid nineties if I remember correctly.

Philthechill
31st March 2011, 09:14
When I was an apprentice I once hit my hand with the hammer when using a cold chisel. The chargehand took out a piece of chalk and made a cross on the end of the chisel. "Just hit the cross son and you'll be OK."
And do you know, he was right!

Derek We had a "gaffer" in the Apprentice Training Shop, called Ted Hornby who had a favourite trick to demonstrate how easy it was to use a hammer-and-chisel.

Doubtless you can all remember how, the first time you used a hammer-and-chisel, you'd grasp the hammer close under the head thus, of course, minimising the "weight" of the hammer-blow on the chisle and, virtually, rendering the kinetic energy, (what the 'kin 'ell is he on about NOW!), stored in the swung hammer-head useless.

Ted would come along and, after watching the pathetic attempts, from the apprentice concerned (me!), would say, "Right, lad! For a start, DON'T strangle the hammer!!! Now THIS is how you should try and do it!"

He would then start raining steady hammer-blows on the chisel-head and then, to demonstrate his accuracy and complete control over the hammer, would turn his head towards you and, whilst asking if you understood what he meant by his "demo", carried-on hitting the chisel!

Obviously we were all mightily impressed by this and attempted emulating his free-hitting fluidity, (without the turning-of-heads, of course!!!).

Much "bark" was removed from thumbs, (before we could use the full power stored in a swung hammer, as Ted did), but it was a brilliant display of hammer-and-chisel use!

Amazing isn't it how we recall those "snippets" from those long-ago (60 years in my case) apprenticeship days! What wonderful craftsmen we had to instruct us too! Salaams, Phil(Hippy)

bobw
31st March 2011, 12:25
Cueball44, only us Leckys can use two hands at a time....

Duncan112
31st March 2011, 23:03
They should be, but their office is in Papendrecht; close to Dordrecht but on the other side of the river; MAK were in the process of being taken over by MAN-B&W in the mid nineties if I remember correctly.

I think Caterpillar now own MaK

cueball44
31st March 2011, 23:12
I used to feel a bit nervous shackle pin clinking when i had a hangover, worried that one of us would swing out of turn with their sledgehammer, now that used to get the purple ring twitching.:sweat: 'cueball44'

JoK
31st March 2011, 23:46
I think Caterpillar now own MaK

yes they do

Hamish Mackintosh
31st March 2011, 23:49
Cueball44, only us Leckys can use two hands at a time....

Yes, one positive and the other ground(earth)

Dickyboy
1st April 2011, 01:58
Hello

My Name is Satanic and I can't hacksaw in a straight line(Sad)

Step 1
Admitted that you were an engineer and that your life had become unmanageable. :o

Satanic Mechanic
1st April 2011, 09:29
Step 1
Admitted that you were an engineer and that your life had become unmanageable. :o

(LOL)
Love it Dicky, I assume the second step is:

2. Believe that the Superintendent Engineer can restore me to sanity

John Farrell
1st April 2011, 12:41
They should be, but their office is in Papendrecht; close to Dordrecht but on the other side of the river; MAK were in the process of being taken over by MAN-B&W in the mid nineties if I remember correctly.

Why I asked is that I have a certain Cylinder Head Stud Extractor in mind which they use to advocate as the answer to an Engineers dream. I was not overly impressed as there were entablature problems (hot spots) associated with this device used in unskilled hands.
I used to prefer to drill them out (slow speed) nice and slowly taking care to penetrate the stud nose. With a lot of luck the 'easy out' did the trick. If not, it was hack saw, collapse the stud and pick the thread out ....zzzzzz. Happy days.

chadburn
1st April 2011, 13:02
Picking the remainder of the the thread out with a cross cut, now there's a challenge.

Dickyboy
1st April 2011, 13:59
(LOL)
Love it Dicky, I assume the second step is:

2. Believe that the Superintendent Engineer can restore me to sanity

Step 3
Made a decision to turn my will and my life over to the said Superintendant Engineer, as I understand him. (==D)

Billieboy
1st April 2011, 14:34
I think Caterpillar now own MaK

Thanks for the correction Duncan and RoK, I knew it but seem to have had a senior moment!, I got Papendrecht right though.

Billieboy
1st April 2011, 14:46
I made an art of removing broken stud ends from Sulzer 100RLA10 engines, it was a design fault where the studs were screw cut, instead of rolled stainless steel. My system was to weld a pipe onto the top of the broken stud(the inside of the pipe), then weld the dolly into the pipe, and then apply torque with blocks. The best time was five minutes the worst 90 minutes, the studs were M100.

As for chasing with a crosscut, I remember one fitter who had a selection of these tools especially made for chasing out stud threads, nobody could get a stud out faster than him!

John Farrell
1st April 2011, 15:32
Picking the remainder of the the thread out with a cross cut, now there's a challenge.

Agree!

John Farrell
1st April 2011, 15:36
I made an art of removing broken stud ends from Sulzer 100RLA10 engines, it was a design fault where the studs were screw cut, instead of rolled stainless steel. My system was to weld a pipe onto the top of the broken stud(the inside of the pipe), then weld the dolly into the pipe, and then apply torque with blocks. The best time was five minutes the worst 90 minutes, the studs were M100.

As for chasing with a crosscut, I remember one fitter who had a selection of these tools especially made for chasing out stud threads, nobody could get a stud out faster than him!

We are talking about the same device billieboy. I can't match those times! Best 3.5 hours with an easy out. Worst, scenario as described by Chadbourn, 6/7 hours.

Shipbuilder
1st April 2011, 19:26
I am not an engineer, but I have a little plastic box with a grinding wheel in it that is great for sharpening drills. Poke drill down hole in it and rotate it back and forth a few times, then lift it out, advance it a bit to get to the second half and then do the same!

I have NEVER been able to part off work from the lathe with a parting off tool - it just doesn't work for me! I know the top of it has to be dead centre, but still can't do it. For many years, I have parted off with a saw (Do I hear screams of anguish?).

Bob

Macphail
1st April 2011, 22:14
Have a good underside rake on the parting off tool.
Set it slightly below centre. It will then dig in and cut.
Above centre or on centre, it will only ride up and not cut.

john.

stonkingjohn
2nd April 2011, 00:37
Trained as an marine engineer, but after a break of 25 years, have returned to the technical world. My boss is a time served ex tool maker and a perfectionist. Shock horror, because of the technical limitations of my employer, I was instructed to produce a stub drill from a standard twist drill. The theory of 40 years ago was still clearly embedded in my mind, but could my eyes had seriously deteriorated over the years, even with the aid of glasses. Lo and behold, inspite of these disadvantages the drill was produced to a satisfactory standard. There is now a greater appreciation of the merits of the training of a marine engineer in our office! Fortunately age is not seen as a disadvantage in my workplace.

Billieboy
2nd April 2011, 10:46
I am not an engineer, but I have a little plastic box with a grinding wheel in it that is great for sharpening drills. Poke drill down hole in it and rotate it back and forth a few times, then lift it out, advance it a bit to get to the second half and then do the same!

I have NEVER been able to part off work from the lathe with a parting off tool - it just doesn't work for me! I know the top of it has to be dead centre, but still can't do it. For many years, I have parted off with a saw (Do I hear screams of anguish?).

Bob

Bob set your tool exactly on centre, to do this pin a six inch rule between the work and the tool, when looking from the tail stock the rule should be vertical or slightly to the left as you look at it. Also, do not have the parting tool edge flat(parallel) to the work but ground at a slight angle so that the work side parts off first.
When setting up the parting tool, make sure that the tool is tightened down before trying the rule test.

Shipbuilder
2nd April 2011, 14:59
Thanks,
I think maybe the biggest contributing fator to the failure is that I turn very small items. My chuck only has a capacity of 6 1/2 mm maximum, but most of the work is done on 1/8th inch or less. Being very thin, it tends to ride up over the top of the parting off tool. But it is no great problem as parting off with a fine saw is easy enough and it seems quite natural now after all these years.
Bob

Derek Roger
2nd April 2011, 15:54
Another admission ; whenever I turned a thread on the lathe ; during the final cut the piece invariably ended up looking more like a corkscrew than a bolt .
In later years Brocklebank carried Chinese fitters who did all the turning . They could make anything one needed and fast .
Derek

Chief Engineer's Daughter
2nd April 2011, 17:54
Only one way to deal with nuts, rotten/seized, a cold chisel and a two pound hammer whose handle has been fitted to your right (left) hand, anywhere between two and twenty hits deals with any nut from 5/8" to 1 1/2" BSW.

Oh yes, done that trick!

I hate working with fuel lines. (But there again that is on tractors... (Thumb))

I will not touch the mechanics of the outboard engine on the boat. Far too many peerie fiddily nuts, bolts and screws all waiting to either ping out of your hand or strip a thread at the blink of an eye.

MARINEJOCKY
2nd April 2011, 20:50
so, Derek, what was that Beatles song you mentioned, you see from the above I can not get away from them even on this thread. Maybe I should listen to more Buffet stuff and think of things to do in Paradise. (*))

Chief Engineer's Daughter
3rd April 2011, 21:16
so, Derek, what was that Beatles song you mentioned, you see from the above I can not get away from them even on this thread. Maybe I should listen to more Buffet stuff and think of things to do in Paradise. (*))

Well I do beg your pardon MJ, I did not realise that this thread was EXCULSIVE to you. (Cloud)

Chief Engineer's Daughter
3rd April 2011, 21:31
Dear Engineers Anonymous

Thank you for sharing your deepest and dark secrets.

I thought I could join in your merry banter being an associate member of the Brotherhood of the Spanner due to being from a long line of engineers (in fact youngest daughter is heading towards the marine engineering business). It looks like I am not welcome here so I bid you farewell.

Chief Engineer's Daughter (Sad)

MARINEJOCKY
3rd April 2011, 22:08
Och, come on, read all of the post's lassie and stop being so touchie. I was writing in jest since I (along with a few others) was asked not to get involved with YOUR coastie thread even though that particular one seems to be a private discussion between two members only.

It would seem that two engineers, me and SM, where not welcome on your thread even though we asked and suggested many ideas, were abused and insulted and yet we have both stayed away as requested.

I was actually going to ask you what kind of tractor you worked on as I spent many a cold night under old grey fergies and my favorite has to be a 135 MF.
As we fixed many a Perkins powered boat up and down the West coast and Islands we ended up fixing alot of tractors as well as supplying alot of parts especially around Uist.

So in my opinion as long as you do not bring to many of your "friends" you are very welcome and if you take offense to that you and a few others have never spent any time in a duty mess after changing at least a unit or two at sea after a good old scavenge fire (*))

Magic Fingers
3rd April 2011, 22:45
SMs original post has had me thinking about hacksaws. All of them in my workshop are older than me, (63+). Last week I was watching my nephew use a hacksaw and cursing because he cannot saw a straight line. As he is a Honda trained motorcycle technician bench work doesn't seem to count these days. But when I examined the saw the blade was in backwards and well bowed through excess pressure trying to force the cut. A new blade fitted and instruction to watch the blade and not the saw frame. Result, a reasonable saw cut. I very rarely find a blade in line with the hacksaw frame. A good skill test for the hacksaw is to see how square you can cut through a thin walled tube.
My achilles heel has been upside down welding. Then I found the delights of the mig welder and solved that problem.

Richard.

JoK
3rd April 2011, 23:48
Och, come on, read all of the post's lassie and stop being so touchie. I was writing in jest since I (along with a few others) was asked not to get involved with YOUR coastie thread even though that particular one seems to be a private discussion between two members only.

It would seem that two engineers, me and SM, where not welcome on your thread even though we asked and suggested many ideas, were abused and insulted and yet we have both stayed away as requested.
(*))


CG thread?
I read that and thought people were really quite obnoxious to you in it. I never bothered to read any further then that.

MARINEJOCKY
4th April 2011, 00:27
Jok, Thanks for the post, I do not mean to hi-jack this thread and my comments were meant as tongue in cheek about being asked by the moderator not to post any more on that particular subject.

I hope CED will see my comments on here as being kinda like, whoa glad to be amongst friends on this thread after the abuse I got on the other one. It was not directed at her or the more moderate members.

anyway, never did see a coastie who could cut in a straight line, probably because most of them had been sparkies or from the deck (*))

MARINEJOCKY
4th April 2011, 00:39
getting back to hacksaws, I was wondering when I read Magic fingers post when he writes "All of them in my workshop are older than me" just how many does he have.

Then I got to thinking about the last time I actually used a hacksaw, I am not very hands on these days but when I do something with my 6 yr old son do I reach for a hacksaw. I think maybe once in a blue moon.

Thin walled pipe, angle iron, aluminium tube and not a hacksaw in sight, out comes the latest and greatest cut off tool, chop saw, vibrating cutter, various pipe cutters, angle cutters with all sorts of blades, plasma cutter or a short trip to my other workshop and use the water jet.

Welding, who uses a rod now a days, in fact mig welding is a thing of the past and a good tig welder is used for most of the stuff I need to do.

I think the hardest thing I would have to go back to if I ever ventured onto another ship would be to weld baffle plates inside a Foster Wheeler boiler, not becuase of the welding but because of the heat or changing pistons and trying to do it in the same time as we used to do it.

barrinoz
4th April 2011, 00:51
anyway, never did see a coastie who could cut in a straight line, probably because most of them had been sparkies or from the deck (*))

You just can't help yourself yourself, can you? Maybe you can find a grown up coastie, sparkie or deckie to look up the word 'obnoxious' in the dictionary for you!
barrinoz.

Chief Engineer's Daughter
4th April 2011, 02:59
Och, come on, read all of the post's lassie and stop being so touchie. I was writing in jest.............

I was actually going to ask you what kind of tractor you worked on as I spent many a cold night under old grey fergies and my favorite has to be a 135 MF.
As we fixed many a Perkins powered boat up and down the West coast and Islands we ended up fixing alot of tractors as well as supplying alot of parts especially around Uist.


It didn't feel like it was in jest!!!!!!!

As for the tractors MF 5455 (Which I don't touch the engine of because it's all micro chips and stuff.) 4 WD MF 690, wonderful tractor but unfortunately the cab is one of the rubbish ones made that rust very easily. Finally, my baby, MF 35X. Nearly 50 years old and still going strong.

MARINEJOCKY
4th April 2011, 03:12
I had forgotten about that MF 35, the wee round nose model whereas the 135 was the "modern" square nose one.

Now where is my fishing gear, let me see if there are any more fish biting out there in the colony's.

billyboy
4th April 2011, 03:30
Was that the one with the petrol standard vanguard engine in it. They were a nice wee tractor and quiet too with the hydraulics as well.

barrinoz
4th April 2011, 05:00
Now where is my fishing gear, let me see if there are any more fish biting out there in the colony's.

And there's me thinking a mega rich, big noter like yourself (apparently) would have a slave, -sorry, servant - on tap to do menial tasks like finding your fishing tackle. You'd be amazed at how hard we little fish out here in the colonies can bite (note the spelling-although I have to tell you that the "colonies" ceased to exist a long time ago).

Chief Engineer's Daughter
4th April 2011, 05:36
Was that the one with the petrol standard vanguard engine in it. They were a nice wee tractor and quiet too with the hydraulics as well.

There is a petrol version, not as popular as mine which is a diesel. Quite a unique sound with a 3 cylinder Perkins engines. Lovely machines.

spongebob
4th April 2011, 06:27
From hacksaw blades to knives! A wide ranging thread topic.

Bob

Thats another Story
4th April 2011, 06:43
one quick note {are you putting the blade in the right way around} let the saw do the work?

Magic Fingers
4th April 2011, 08:17
Around my workshop there are six hacksaws, 3 full size and 3 juniors. They are at various benches so that I don't have to go looking for one where it was last used. As for modern equipment, I've got mig, tig, gas and stick and a plasma cutter but even with that lot I'm not afraid to use the hacksaw and file. As I said, bench work seems to be a rapidly dying art, unfortunately.
John P, you are spot on, let the saw do the work but that applies to all saws, not just hacksaws.

Richard.

WilliamH
4th April 2011, 08:47
I always found a hacksaw with a horizontal file type handle in line with the blade gave much more accurate results than one with a vertical handle.

Billieboy
4th April 2011, 09:13
Thanks,
I think maybe the biggest contributing fator to the failure is that I turn very small items. My chuck only has a capacity of 6 1/2 mm maximum, but most of the work is done on 1/8th inch or less. Being very thin, it tends to ride up over the top of the parting off tool. But it is no great problem as parting off with a fine saw is easy enough and it seems quite natural now after all these years.
Bob

Bob, small should be no problem, I've screwcut 1mm diameter screws and then parted them off, speed(RPM) is the important thing at these small diameters, 3000 and upwards is the best.

p.s. CED, a three cylinder Perkins is a quality engine, they run on waste oil if they have to, (needs a bit of filtering and additional go-juice).

Blackal
4th April 2011, 09:25
One Chief Engineer, when handed a tools-order list which included half a dozen ball-pein hammers - used to ask:

'How many hammers have you worn out since the last order???'

(hard to argue with the logic............. :))

Al

gordy
4th April 2011, 09:33
One Chief Engineer, when handed a tools-order list which included half a dozen ball-pein hammers - used to ask:

'How many hammers have you worn out since the last order???'

(hard to argue with the logic............. :))

Al

Did he then suspend the order until after a bilge sweep?(Jester)

gordy
4th April 2011, 09:50
I always found a hacksaw with a horizontal file type handle in line with the blade gave much more accurate results than one with a vertical handle.

I concur.

Between Merchant Navy stints in 1968 I was on G & J Weirs outside squad.
I was seconded to the Weir-Westgarth water treatment div. to give their guy a hand at a school swimming pool equipment overhaul. The janitor hadn't been up to the job of operating the kit and had switched it all off.
How the kids survived months of untreated water is beyond me.
We had to saw off a lot of bolts and both of us had arrived without saws, so I nipped out to a hardware shop and bought one. It must have been from Hong Kong, or Taiwan, and try as I might, getting a straight cut was well nigh impossible.
Anyway the job got done, and on our way home I took the saw back to the shop and got my money back(Hippy)
Result[=P]
Good quality saw acquired and never left home without it(Thumb)

billyboy
4th April 2011, 09:51
Hacksaw at a slow rate using the full length of the blade. It keeps the blade temperature down. Rapid short strokes cause the blade to overheat losinf its temper.
Save the rapid short strokes for another "work" room

Thats another Story
4th April 2011, 10:03
i had to read that again then bill(Hippy)(Jester)

gordy
4th April 2011, 10:10
Save the rapid short strokes for another "work" room

Some of us only have that choice.(Jester)

billyboy
4th April 2011, 10:12
Noo Noo Gordy. you thinking of a different tool mate

Thats another Story
4th April 2011, 10:13
is that for the junior hacksaw bill[=P](Jester)

Magic Fingers
4th April 2011, 10:27
I see we're back to sense and logic on this thread now.

Richard.

billyboy
4th April 2011, 10:31
No john its a hole reamer John. still a two handed job but has to be twisted and pushed onto the hole in order to increase its inside diameter mate. This was done in order to fit a new bush over a shaft. (bit like rocker shaft bushes John)

Thats another Story
4th April 2011, 10:34
if its twisted bill you have been using it wrong you should shake it not try to wring it out[=P](Jester)

billyboy
4th April 2011, 10:41
I am sure i wouldnt know what you mean John [=P](Jester)

JoK
4th April 2011, 10:52
I needed a hacksaw , when I went to buy one, I found one that was sized that it could take a hacksaw blade or a pruning blade for trees. Who cares about straight, I got 2 for 1 !!

JoK
4th April 2011, 10:55
One Chief Engineer, when handed a tools-order list which included half a dozen ball-pein hammers - used to ask:

'How many hammers have you worn out since the last order???'

(hard to argue with the logic............. :))

Al

I sailed with one, that you handed him the spares list, would look at it and say, now how many do you Really need?
Of course we always added 1 or 2 just in case the order was slashed.

billyboy
4th April 2011, 11:05
Pure personal choice but i always prefered the :Eclipse" brand blades. they seemed to keep their edge longer than the "Flexiblades" used here.
Anyone got a favorite brand of hacksaw blade?

Shipbuilder
4th April 2011, 11:21
#128
Billieboy
I don't know what speed it runs at. It is a Unimat SL and the drive belt is on the centre wheel of the motor and the smallest wheel on the drive (both lined up, of course). I no longer have any choice in this, because it is very difficult to get new drive belts these days (discontinued spares years ago). I have been using "0" rings for several years, but even so, it was difficult to find one that fitted!
But as I say, it is no problem as the saw parts off very well. I just wondered why I could never manage it in the early days. Probably the speed more than anything else. I got it for £69 in 1973 and so far, have only worn out one chuck. The rest of it seems OK and it gets extensive use.
Bob

Philthechill
4th April 2011, 17:39
Bob, small should be no problem, I've screwcut 1mm diameter screws and then parted them off, speed(RPM) is the important thing at these small diameters, 3000 and upwards is the best.

p.s. CED, a three cylinder Perkins is a quality engine, they run on waste oil if they have to, (needs a bit of filtering and additional go-juice). Billieboy! I served my time at "Cooke, Troughton & Simms, Scientific and Optical Instrument Makers", of York and the smallest screws we ever used were 12 BA (.051" dia.) but they weren't screw-cut but made with a die. You quote screw-cutting 1mm (.040") threads and then parting them off!

I thought 12BA was extremely small (in screw-size). I suppose 1mm must be the equivalent of 16BA which is probably as small as it's possible to make a threaded piece of material without the two "root-bottoms" impinging on each other and causing the screw to fall apart!

I imagine the screws you were making would be for use in watches? I can well-imagine very high-speed being the only way to part-off such small diameter work-pieces. Any slow speeds would just cause the parting-off tool to "dig-in" I would expect. Good stuff though Billieboy, good stuff!!! Salaams, Phil(Hippy)

jimthehat
4th April 2011, 18:05
Well, after a lot of thought, I suppose my worst bit, is that I cannot bear to watch a doxford running.

Why is it that engineers hate doxfords,we who live up high think that they are wonderful pieces of engineering.

jim

Billieboy
4th April 2011, 18:41
Why is it that engineers hate doxfords,we who live up high think that they are wonderful pieces of engineering.

jim

Eight months twelve days and seventeen hours was enough for me Jim!
But then I was bought up on triples and horizontal duplex steam engines, I found Doxfords far too noisy and dirty. Later I enjoyed solving problems on Sulzer and MAN-B&W engines, where big hammers were never needed and hydraulics did all the work.

John Farrell
4th April 2011, 19:03
Why is it that engineers hate doxfords,we who live up high think that they are wonderful pieces of engineering.

jim

Jim,

Why did you think they were wonderful pieces of engineerin?

MARINEJOCKY
4th April 2011, 19:15
Billieboy

"I enjoyed solving problems on Sulzer and MAN-B&W engines, where big hammers were never needed and hydraulics did all the work."

I guess your idea and my idea of what was a big hammer varied quite a bit, MAN KZ engines !!!!!

Billieboy
4th April 2011, 19:56
Billieboy

"I enjoyed solving problems on Sulzer and MAN-B&W engines, where big hammers were never needed and hydraulics did all the work."

I guess your idea and my idea of what was a big hammer varied quite a bit, MAN KZ engines !!!!!

As an apprentice ashore and as a junior engineer on a Doxford, there were only two sizes of hammer; a 1 1/2 or 2lb and a 14 pounder. The Monday hammer was 56lbs, and needed a shore rigger/fitters mate, to handle it.

MARINEJOCKY
4th April 2011, 21:30
bad weather on a doxford and this young junior spent his time hammering this big bronze bar at one of the engine with a sledge hammer only to find out it was the governor ? The bar was all flattened over by years of being hammered or was somebody pulling a fast one on me. Like having me start the frigging thing as the chief was walking around, blew every safety possible. Chief got his own back by pouring milk down the voice pipe and covering me with it. Happy days

Derek Roger
4th April 2011, 21:46
As an apprentice ashore and as a junior engineer on a Doxford, there were only two sizes of hammer; a 1 1/2 or 2lb and a 14 pounder. The Monday hammer was 56lbs, and needed a shore rigger/fitters mate, to handle it.

As I remember Billie the 56 lbs was called a " Tup " and as you say had to be swung using rigging .
Did a drydock in Japan and despite every effort including a " Tup " we could not get the bolts off a CP prop blade " KaMe Wa " There was no leakage problem ; just a survey . In the end all agreed to postpone the survey for 4 years . Never found out what happened after that .

Derek

Thats another Story
4th April 2011, 22:16
As I remember Billie the 56 lbs was called a " Tup " and as you say had to be swung using rigging .
Did a drydock in Japan and despite every effort including a " Tup " we could not get the bolts off a CP prop blade " KaMe Wa " There was no leakage problem ; just a survey . In the end all agreed to postpone the survey for 4 years . Never found out what happened after that .

Derekas i posted last week my first job at 15 the firm i worked for had a two man tup 56lb sledge with two shafts this one only had one shaft the boss MR J ROUTLEDGE SAID IF YOU CANT SWING THAT SON YOU ARE NO GOOD TO ME? six months of that soon filled me out breaking cast columns from buildings pulled down of the dock sheds? then odyssey works they thought i was a freak with the body i had on me.john

Derek Roger
4th April 2011, 22:22
as i posted last week my first job at 15 the firm i worked for had a two man tup 56lb sledge with two shafts this one only had one shaft the boss MR J ROUTLEDGE SAID IF YOU CANT SWING THAT SON YOU ARE NO GOOD TO ME? six months of that soon filled me out breaking cast columns from buildings pulled down of the dock sheds? then odyssey works they thought i was a freak with the body i had on me.john

Looking at the time you were at odeyssey John you may have met up with Johnny Willis ( His Dad was a skipper at that time ) Johnny was an apprentice at the same time as myself but got married and did not go to sea . Either worked at odeyssey or some other shore repair facility .

Thats another Story
4th April 2011, 22:29
Looking at the time you were at odeyssey John you may have met up with Johnny Willis ( His Dad was a skipper at that time ) Johnny was an apprentice at the same time as myself but got married and did not go to sea . Either worked at odeyssey or some other shore repair facility .sorry Derick terrible with names faces yes names no but at the time i did save a lad from drowning in Ginny gap baths and had to sit in the classroom soaking wet all afternoon with a pool of water all around me? good days though.john(Hippy)

John Farrell
5th April 2011, 08:32
The repair facilities in Birkenhead were many and of a good quality but sadly all gone.

offcumdum sanddancer
10th April 2011, 14:29
Hello

My Name is Satanic and I can't hacksaw in a straight line(Sad)


My self confessed failing was when overhauling and reassembling a valve of any sort, i would invariably forget to put the valve gland back in before boxing up the spindle. I have, of course, many other sorts of failings, but one at a time!

wterdbeard
22nd April 2011, 21:34
as a fitter I would love to file flat

Macphail
22nd April 2011, 22:23
Bob set your tool exactly on centre, to do this pin a six inch rule between the work and the tool, when looking from the tail stock the rule should be vertical or slightly to the left as you look at it. Also, do not have the parting tool edge flat(parallel) to the work but ground at a slight angle so that the work side parts off first.
When setting up the parting tool, make sure that the tool is tightened down before trying the rule test.

Having timed served as a tool maker/ fitter turner.
Normal turning set the lathe tool on centre.
Parting off, set the tool slightly below centre.

Hope this helps you to understand , Bill.

All the best,

John.

[=P]

Alex Salmond
22nd April 2011, 23:39
You guys are lucky if that was your only problems when you were at sea,what about us poor greasers cleaning the scavengers when they hadnt been done in a while!dont know why they didnt put that job on that program"The worlds worst jobs"still wake up in a cold sweat thinking about it,This was ALWAYS a job and knock but on one ship the 2nd was away so the 3rd thought he was in charge HA! we just spent about a hour scrubbing down in the shower and were sitting having a cold beer in the crew bar when he appeared at the door demanding we turn to #@**,he never made that mistake again,
Alex.

John Farrell
25th April 2011, 18:24
Any embarrassing stories out there about unit numbering. Class numbering was sometimes at conflict with builders numbering. German thinking does not always rule........according to class.

gordy
25th April 2011, 18:59
as a fitter I would love to file flat

I had a pal who couldn't file, so the shipyard he was in made him an apprentice patternmaker.

He ended up with his own shopfitting company(Applause)

lazyjohn
1st May 2011, 11:45
I'm too shy to tell you my blind spot. I know of a couple of problems caused by others though.

1) Windsor Castle lost Port (?) engine while manouvering in Cape Town harbour because a boiler chipping hammer (lost by Vospers in Soton), had finaly worked its way into the balanced manouvering valve.

We finished up using the Bkhd Stop v/v instead. ( I was on standby at the time)

2) King Alfred came out of the Spanish builders yard with a pump set trapped in the bilges. It had been trapped by pipework that had been welded in.( I was told this one)

Don Matheson
1st May 2011, 19:42
Served my time in one of the Clyde's best shipyards for training apprentices so never had much trouble with the everyday work. We were taught to chisel in a controled way and our chisel training work was checked with a straight edge. Did all the usual test pieces where everything had to be flat and all other parts usually six sides had to be square, parallel and to within plus or minus a thou.
My nightmare came when at sea and later on oilrigs where I discovered that when using a big hammer I could not hit the same thing twice. People used to tie ropes to spanners if I was around but were quite happy to hold them for anyone else. Never overcame that and noone wanted to help me pratice. Later managed to redeem myself when asked to remove a jammed 4" bolt on a Blowout Preventer Bonnet but instead of a hammer I used a 50 ton gantry crane on the spanner.
Tiny bit of lathe instruction and a lot of practice followed and paid off when out on location I had to make a 36" long double start buttress thread for a valve spindle which was 12 feet long. That made everything else worth it.
All in all I think I became pretty good at the job but never ever managed a big hammer.

Don

Blackal
1st May 2011, 19:50
'36" long double start buttress thread' ?

On a good day - I might have been able to make the hammer...... :(

Al ;)

Don Matheson
1st May 2011, 20:23
Al I put it on here as it was my pride and joy. Didnt think I could make it, but our old American engineer super whom I worshiped convinced me I could. Valve makers were in the States and we had to be down in the water in three days. Over the moon when I finished it and it worked. Took me all day and as you likely know thats like a day off when you are getting ready to jack down.

I also learned about how important plus or minus a thou is, but I think I would rather get it right!!!!

Don

John Farrell
1st May 2011, 20:25
Served my time in one of the Clyde's best shipyards for training apprentices so never had much trouble with the everyday work. Don

And where would that be?

Don Matheson
1st May 2011, 20:45
That would be in Linthouse!

Don

John Farrell
1st May 2011, 21:49
Thanks Don, I thought as much.

JF

Don Matheson
1st May 2011, 21:59
John Alexander Stephen at Linthouse were well known for their training and were an excellent shipyard for a lad to serve their time.
Training for engineers covered everything and while I was there the apprentice engineering training shop were building a fairly large scale model of a Sulzer RD 76. Everything was hand or machine made and we did our own casting for jackets etc. If something new came up you were free to go down to the shops and ask a fitter or a turner the best way to approach it. I thought it was great and when you went to be certified for sea going you were given a fairly high mark just because of where you served your time.

Don

Joe Freeman
3rd May 2011, 18:06
Hi Don, do you know what ever happened to that model engine.
Joe.

Don Matheson
4th May 2011, 11:19
Sorry Joe never did find out and shortly after I went to sea the yard shut down under the Government plan to shut the clyde down.
Probably in the house of one of the rather good instructors we had.

Don

uisdean mor
4th May 2011, 16:27
'36" long double start buttress thread' ?

On a good day - I might have been able to make the hammer...... :(

Al ;)

After I came ashore for the first time - went back a couple of times before petty coat government decreed no more - I worked for Wiggins Teape at the pulp and paper mill in Corpach.

British Rail ,as it then was, came in one day with the screw thread for the jack which lifted the swing bridge over the Caledonian Canal. Similar to the 36" double buttress but was around 60". There were two scissors and they had somehow got out of sync - the one lying on the workshop floor looked like something from refinery piping diagram rather than a long straight smooth piece of bronze.
Railway closed - bridge up on blocks and part blocking the canal and BR in a bit of a pickle. Where do you find a lump of high grade metal that will do the trick. Fortunately we had a piece which had been part of a calendar roll set up on the paper machine.
Set too and in around 6 hours we had a new shaft. A bit tricky machining the bearing caps and getting accurate measurements from the BR guys who thought it should just "fit together".
That was around 20 years ago and as far as I know the jack is still working though I think they have renewed the bearing ends a couple of times.
we did have a good machine shop at Corpach all now sadly gone though the old place is starting to come to life again as a succesful sawmill.

Rgds
Uidean

Don Matheson
4th May 2011, 18:08
Uidean Sounds like a very good job you carried out there. 60" would not have fitted in our rig workshop lathe but I can appreciate the job you did, a bit of envy there as well. The fact that is is still working is a credit to you. Which of the bridges was it?
If like me you had very little lathe experience before the job I feel you will certainly understand the pride I felt.

Don

uisdean mor
6th May 2011, 13:54
Don
The only rail one over the canal at Banavie. Powered by two scissor jacks which raise the bed around 18" so that the bed can be swung round in line with the bank.
The balance achieved by the bridge designers means very little effort was required to move it but there was a overall loading of around 90 ton on the jacks.They had to be spot on.
Initial training at Cammel Lairds and backed by theory at Birkenhead Tech meant I had a good groundinmg in turning as well as a keen interest.
This was followed up by working with the Blue Flue fitters (Chinese) which some Brocks ships carried. I have seen a fitter turn a rough thread by hand and it worked. Also spent some time in Durban working ashore on sugar mill refits so all in all I enjoyed the challenges. The paper mill work was perhaps the most exacting and certainly the one where greatest accuracy was required - loading on some of the main bearings when the machine was running were extremely high and any down time during a run was a complete no no - it had to be right first time.

Rgds
Uisdean

Reef Knot
6th May 2011, 18:40
Don, please explain to me what this is....

36" long double start buttress thread

(Whaaa) (I'm not very bright - a picture may be required!)

Ken.

kewl dude
6th May 2011, 20:17
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buttress_thread

Complete with pictures.

Greg Hayden

Don Matheson
6th May 2011, 20:57
Ken the 36" is the lenght of the thread to be cut in the spindle required in this case to open a valve on the rigs hull which allowed drilling cuttings to be washed throug but the valve had to be closed when the rig (Jack Up) went down into the water for a rig move. In the water this valve would be around 18-20 feet underwater. The point of the Buttress is that it has two starts on the thread as opposed to a normal thread (on a bolt etc) which has one starting point. The Buttress thread has two different styles one on each side of the thread itsself. One is very strong for opening and the other has a sort of ridge on it which creates an almost hydraulic seal on itsself. In this case keeping the water out.
This is an oilfield use but I have seen buttress threads made ashore which have the same thread tooth on each side and used mainly for strength of opening and closing

w.diracdelta.co.uk/science/source/a/c/acme thread/source.html

This type known in the oilfield as an Acme Buttress thread is used in an environment with a lot of dirt and is perfect for threads which will be affected by severe dirt but can still operate.
The valve I am refering to have drilling mud, soil and rock passing throught them 24/7 for months untill one day they have to shut.

Hope this is of some help, Greg posted a good drawing of the one I made in his post.

Don

Reef Knot
6th May 2011, 21:19
Very interesting, thank you both. I've learned something - just don't ask any questions! (Jester)

eldersuk
7th May 2011, 00:25
An interesting job that I got in Cammell Lairds was for a submarine hatch. This was designed to open (and close) within about half a turn. The hatch was about 36" diameter and abour 2" thick and the opening/closing was achieved by a seven start buttress thread which had to be cut in the periphery of the hatch cover with the corresponding female thread in a ring to be fitted to the hull. A feature of this design was that with the pitch of the thread and the thickness of the hatch each 'start' only went around a fraction of the cover and ring.
I also got the job of cutting the threads for the opening mechanisms for the torpedo tubes, as far as I remember these were three start square threads.
At the time I was a fifth year apprentice.

Now I'm an old a**se and I woudn't know where to start!

Derek

GeeM
7th May 2011, 01:18
Always had big problems with Indicator cards. When I worked for Wheelocks we had to do cards once a week. Later B&W I sailed with had a cam and follower arrangement you could tie the drum string onto so you got a perfect card every time. On older engines that co ordination required to press the pen onto the drum and pull the string at just the right moment that the little indicator lever was on the bottom of Its stroke was quite a challenge. Wasted lots of those little pressure sensitive cards.

gordy
7th May 2011, 07:51
Don,

How many cement boxes did you build round drilling rig cutting chutes(Jester)?

Blackal
7th May 2011, 08:10
Always had big problems with Indicator cards. When I worked for Wheelocks we had to do cards once a week. Later B&W I sailed with had a cam and follower arrangement you could tie the drum string onto so you got a perfect card every time. On older engines that co ordination required to press the pen onto the drum and pull the string at just the right moment that the little indicator lever was on the bottom of Its stroke was quite a challenge. Wasted lots of those little pressure sensitive cards.

That brings back memories! (Thumb)

On one ship, while trying to clear the indicator cock (horizontal) on a B&W 6K74EF - the welding rod, that I was poking down the channel - suddenly got through to combustion pressure - shot out, and nearly harpooned the Chief Engineer in the head, while he was gong down the ladders to the controlroom :eek:.

He was completely oblivious to this (thankfully)............. (*))

Jeez....... ! this is a bit like standing up and saying "Hi - My name's Al and I'm an alcoholic" :o

Al :)

Satanic Mechanic
7th May 2011, 09:13
Jeez....... ! this is a bit like standing up and saying "Hi - My name's Al and I'm an alcoholic" :o

Al :)

Well yes - this is Engineers Anonymous, welcome Al your amongst friends.

chadburn
7th May 2011, 10:28
Never forget to put a couple of glass bottle's (depending on the box size) in a Cement Box(Thumb)

Satanic Mechanic
7th May 2011, 10:31
Never forget to put a couple of glass bottle's (depending on the box size) in a Cement Box(Thumb)

Oh hello - I don't know that one - do tell

chadburn
7th May 2011, 10:40
You place the glass bottle's in the mix with the neck's protruding, when you come to break the cement box apart you put a bar into the bottle(s) and break the cement apart, makes it easier.

Don Matheson
7th May 2011, 10:56
Gordy Never had to build cement boxes on a jack up. We were not down in the water for very long at a time and if we had a problem it could be repaired as soon as we came up out of the water. Most tanks or chutes could normally be left closed off till you got up out the water.
Had one Night Pusher who decided to open a lot of ballast tanks lids in the pump room while we were were on the move. Didnt seem to understand when I told him he could sink the rig as this was in the biggest space/room in the hull and if it flooded during a meal time we could not stop it and we would suddenly have around 8000 tons of water in the hull and our three mud pumps would be destroyed.
Ballast tanks on a jack up r=are normally just used when you are newly out the water to check if the rig will punch through the surface you are standing on. Once they are all full and held for a few hours on test and if the rig stays upright they are dumped and the tanks mostly return to being empty till the next rig move.

Don

eldersuk
8th May 2011, 00:34
You place the glass bottle's in the mix with the neck's protruding, when you come to break the cement box apart you put a bar into the bottle(s) and break the cement apart, makes it easier.


Always pee into the cement mix - sets quicker.

gordy
8th May 2011, 10:17
Always pee into the cement mix - sets quicker.

Some creative wag put upsidedown wellies just sticking out and one end of a cement box and a hard hat at the other. If you saw it for the first time on a dark night it certainly raised the pulse. The box was close to the dimensions of a coffin.(LOL)

Reef Knot
8th May 2011, 10:57
Always pee into the cement mix - sets quicker.Into the bottles that Chadburn installed? (Whaaa) I'm confused! Mind you, I'm still trying to figure out why anybody would want to mix concrete on a ship - then break it up? Let me rephrase.... I'm VERY confused! (Jester)

Satanic Mechanic
8th May 2011, 11:13
Interesting one Chadburn - I'll give it a go. I have to be honest here and say that I consider my cement boxes to be rather good - so good in fact that we had to hire in a pnuematic breaker on one occassion!!!

Reef Knot

Cement boxes are a method of stopping leaks - usually on shipside fittings that you can't isolate. Really you should get them removed as soon as possible and repair the pipe/valve - but I have seen them up to 2 years old

Thats another Story
8th May 2011, 11:25
4 stone... 2 sand .. 1 cement is the mix for concrete peeing in it {holds it off} or slows it down from setting. the same with plaster. if you want cement to go off at speed use rapid set our a good handfull of plaster in it. a tip for home use.(Thumb)(Jester)

Satanic Mechanic
8th May 2011, 11:54
4 stone... 2 sand .. 1 cement is the mix for concrete peeing in it {holds it off} or slows it down from setting. the same with plaster. if you want cement to go off at speed use rapid set our a good handfull of plaster in it. a tip for home use.(Thumb)(Jester)


Only cement for my cement boxes (Thumb)- though I wonder if a concrete mix would be better - Hmmmm - anyone tried different mixes?

Plaster - interesting one John - about a handful per bag?




and nae peeing it (EEK) - clatty bassas

James_C
8th May 2011, 14:04
Really you should get them removed as soon as possible and repair the pipe/valve - but I have seen them up to 2 years old

I'm led to believe that some of the epic cement boxes on the 'Gas Enterprise' were there for many years, including the 3/4 tonne effort on the IG deck seal.
The standing joke seemed to be that she was almost like a shipborne version of the Tate Modern!

JoK
8th May 2011, 14:20
Always pee into the cement mix - sets quicker.


I was told baking soda set it quicker as well

Blackal
8th May 2011, 14:30
I knew of one semi-submersible rig with a cement mixer installed in each pumproom and raw materials and ply at the ready - the sea-suctions were that bad :(

As I understand it - the engineers became a dab-hand at it - and were the boys to call if you wanted a new patio at home :)

Al

Don Matheson
8th May 2011, 15:02
As long as they dont use any down hole cement for your patio or their cement boxes.
I believe that down in Yarmouth in the early days quite a few people found they had a black/gray patio or path that just would not set.

Don

Blackal
8th May 2011, 15:08
Good point, Don.

No - it wasn't a driller, but they did use all sorts of exotic mixes, I believe.

I think they used Fred West as a consultant ;)

Al :)

Don Matheson
8th May 2011, 15:22
A top man for instant patios and I believe he had a side line in cellars. Fortunately he has given up patio construction now.

Don

gordy
8th May 2011, 20:42
Didn't the downhole cement have to be mixed with seawater?

Nice supply boat story was that surplus downhole cement was deposited on quays at Peterhead and locals used it for building garages/walls etc, which fell down(Jester)

Thats another Story
8th May 2011, 21:03
I worked on a repair at peterhead 1976{i think} downhole cement was just to be mixed with water like grout no sand or stone with it the firm was PETER LIND MARINE.john

chadburn
9th May 2011, 13:18
Nazi Germany may not have lasted 1,000 year's but the Cement Structure's they built will as I believe they used crushed skimming's off the steel furnace's content's in the Cement mix.

waldziu
9th May 2011, 14:36
When we had to fit a cement box in the bows of the Carysfort after a piece of floatsum or jetsum made a hole in her crossing the Tasmin Sea in some very heavy weather. It was a Naval dockyard matey in Singapore who had the priverlige of removing it.

jim garnett
12th May 2011, 07:06
When in doubt about any difficult task,there is only one answer:
DELEGATE
jim garnett

Blackal
12th May 2011, 14:28
When confronted with a dificult problem, I find it easier to resolve - by reducing it to the question:

"How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"



Al :)

chadburn
12th May 2011, 15:49
Hand it over to TONTO(Thumb) Kimo Sabee

Blackal
12th May 2011, 17:57
Hand it over to TONTO(Thumb) Kimo Sabee

Deligation............ You're right (as was Jim Garnett) :o

Al :)

Dumah54
23rd June 2011, 02:02
May I remind you of what a canny old Scot once told me as a junior fitter "A wrench is what you do to your back, a spanner you fix your bicycle with!" [=P]

Cheers, Dumah,
Halifax, NS

Satanic Mechanic
23rd June 2011, 11:30
Would anyone like to admit to 'Water Hammer' so bad you got 'the fear'

The only time I really got worried about it (after the first time - which is a bit crap yersel' scary)was the for'd deck master on the British Ranger which was physically bouncing about an inch in the air - seem to remember it was at least a 10" line as well. The cadet - he ran away though to be honest I don't really blame him (Jester)

surfaceblow
23rd June 2011, 13:58
I was on the Sea Ilse City when it was a US flag Kuwait Tanker. The Deck Equipment was steam operated which required a slow warm up to push the condensate out of the supply and return lines to prevent water hammer. More than a few times the watch wouldn't remember to open the warm up valve when getting ready for arrival. If they did remember the warm up valve then they forgot to open the main valves so the tie up would that forever. While I never witnessed the panic from the Deck Crowd when the water hammer occurred, I always had the deep angry moan of having to walk the deck and look for blown gaskets and other damage that would have to be repaired before leaving the dock.

Joe

MARINEJOCKY
23rd June 2011, 16:27
Heading up the Fjord to Porsgrun in January (winter time) the deck department called down and asked for the deck hydraulics to be started up as it was about 1 hour out from the berth.

Our wonderful C/E started the main hydraulic pumps (2 off) in the engine room and opened the main valves to and from the anchor windlass (s) and forward winches instead of first opening the by-pass / circulating valves.

Talk about "water hammer", the large pumps and motors broke off completely and bounced around breaking the 4" steel pipes, pulled the electrical cables out and the worst part the vibrations were so bad that the quick closing valve on the diesel day tank tripped shutting down the generators and the main engine.

As we were on a gas tanker we had to have an escort tug on entering the fjord but it was optional if this was tied to us or not. As you can imagine it was not tied to us that morning but nosed up to our port side so when we blacked out it just kept on pushing us to starboard.

Thankfully we went under the highway bridge and went aground on rocks in front of two Norwegian homes. I made it to the engine room between blacking out and hitting the rocks and this was my first trip as 2/E.

It was a new gas plant and the locals had objected to it initially but a computer test had shown there would only be 1 accident every 30 years so they went ahead with it. Ours was the 4th incident in the first year so they went back to that very "logical" computer, fed it the new data and asked for an answer which they got, No more incidents for 120 years.

That hydraulic oil was supposed to be good down to -40 but still had to be handled correctly.

Liquid ammonia hammering inside gas compressors was always another one to get your attention.

G0SLP
23rd June 2011, 16:54
I know about that one, MJ - first time I went up to Porsgrunn/Rafnes on a gas boat, many, many years ago, I heard the details...

That ship had a bit of a reputation for 'doing' things, iirc :)

MARINEJOCKY
23rd June 2011, 17:08
That ship was on "stand-by" continually as you well know the route it was on and the C/E decided that he would do the mid-night to 6am watch and I had to do the rest. I believe we blacked out at 5.40am just as I was getting up and we went aground as I was sliding down the hand rails to the control room. The 3/E had the generator running again and when I ran in our leader was trying to sync' the one running genset to a dead board. !!.

I guess you also heard about the previous engineers running the main engine for 20 minutes with no main oil pumps running or are you thinking about the time we sliced through the ice in Koge harbor and went straight thru' the dock and discharge lines, at least I met the major's daughter and dated her there and in Scotland.

The wonderful HUMBOLT !!!!

G0SLP
23rd June 2011, 18:11
One of my colleagues is a 'survivor' off the Hunboldt, & other Houlders' ships - let's just say that he's a good bloke to have in a crisis, as he's probably seen it all before [=P]

Scary stuff, MJ - scary stuff!

MARINEJOCKY
23rd June 2011, 19:08
The Humbolt was a stroll in the park compared to the Black Max and as for surviving, ask him if he survived the "JOULE".

G0SLP
23rd June 2011, 23:00
The Humbolt was a stroll in the park compared to the Black Max and as for surviving, ask him if he survived the "JOULE".

He did, yes!

Satanic Mechanic
5th January 2013, 00:47
Yassss - its not just me


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu5iz-B921o

charles henry
5th January 2013, 15:24
As the saying goes, "Live and learn"
Just discovered why I have trouble drilling holes in metal.

You are supposed to sharpen the damned things!!!!!!!!
Chas

surfaceblow
5th January 2013, 19:31
As the saying goes, "Live and learn"
Just discovered why I have trouble drilling holes in metal.

You are supposed to sharpen the damned things!!!!!!!!
Chas

It also helps if you have the drill turning in the correct direction. The drill index had a few left hand drill bits in it for drilling out broken studs.

Joe

nav
5th January 2013, 19:37
My brothers were at Riversdale College and I remember they had sweatshirts with an arm bearing a spanner with a palmed hand across the bicep. The motto was "If you can't fix it make sure no one else can" which was written in the latin form as "Fixi torf uckit"

Ian J. Huckin
10th January 2013, 19:08
I was on the Sea Ilse City when it was a US flag Kuwait Tanker. The Deck Equipment was steam operated which required a slow warm up to push the condensate out of the supply and return lines to prevent water hammer. More than a few times the watch wouldn't remember to open the warm up valve when getting ready for arrival. If they did remember the warm up valve then they forgot to open the main valves so the tie up would that forever. While I never witnessed the panic from the Deck Crowd when the water hammer occurred, I always had the deep angry moan of having to walk the deck and look for blown gaskets and other damage that would have to be repaired before leaving the dock.

Joe

Was it the Sea Isle City that was hit by a Silkworm missile during the Iran/Iraq war???? I was living in Kuwait at the time and saw her come in for some serious repairs to the accom but until now could never remember the name of the ship?????

Derek Roger
10th January 2013, 19:38
My brothers were at Riversdale College and I remember they had sweatshirts with an arm bearing a spanner with a palmed hand across the bicep. The motto was "If you can't fix it make sure no one else can" which was written in the latin form as "Fixi torf uckit"

I was at Riversdale 1962/ 63 at which time there were no such things . Must have been some time later when your brithers attended .
Cheers Derek

randcmackenzie
10th January 2013, 23:32
Was it the Sea Isle City that was hit by a Silkworm missile during the Iran/Iraq war???? I was living in Kuwait at the time and saw her come in for some serious repairs to the accom but until now could never remember the name of the ship?????

Yes, it was. Bounced off the pumproom vent and destroyed 2 or 3 cabins in the officer's quarters.

It did not explode but they were pretty hefty pieces of kit so the impact was considerable.

Nobody hurt, from what I recall.

B/R

nav
11th January 2013, 00:18
I was at Riversdale 1962/ 63 at which time there were no such things . Must have been some time later when your brithers attended .
Cheers Derek
They were early 70's, a less scrupulous lot with a moral compass that needed a good bit of swinging.

surfaceblow
11th January 2013, 00:25
Yes, it was. Bounced off the pumproom vent and destroyed 2 or 3 cabins in the officer's quarters.

It did not explode but they were pretty hefty pieces of kit so the impact was considerable.

Nobody hurt, from what I recall.

B/R

The Sea Isle City the missile went thur the bridge blinding the Captain and one of the unlicensed Deck Crew with 17 other crew members where also injured.

When I was on the vessel a few years later when Keystone was operating it. You could still see the track of the missile by the new welds where the damaged areas where cut off and replaced by new steel. It took four months to repair the damage to the ship.


You may be thinking of the one of the other two Kuwait Tankers that were reflagged to the US about the same time.

Joe

Satanic Mechanic
11th January 2013, 01:04
Mina Ahlmadi

Delightful little island off the coast of Kuwait - attractions included decoy barges with radar deflectors, recent bomb damage , frequent military 'fly-bys', potential swimming opportunities and a chance to meet the creator. (LOL)

Brian Smither
20th January 2013, 13:07
[QUOTE=Derek Roger;502645]Drill sharpening was easy once I found a little jig to bolt to the grinder ; carried it about for years . ( you should requisition some ; save a bundle of bucks in drills )
Regading mechanical seals they were a nightmare on MV Mahout when going up the Hoogley to Calcutta ( the river at certain times of year would be like sand soup . One wee grain of sand would get between the faces and that was the end of that ; water p1ssing out all over the place . Company eventualy replaced all the mechanical seals with conventional packing glands ; Happy days .



Hi Derek.
I worked with many types of gland seal in the RN but when I left I joined a company which was involved with circulating water based paint via a normal centrifugal pump. Ordinary mech seals did'nt work because the abrasiveness of the paint destroyed them very quickly, so we modified the seal to have it's own separate water supply. This was provided via it's own head tank filled with the water that was used to dilute the paint. The added advantage was that when the seal leaked it coloured the water in the tank and if the seal leaked water into the paint it was'nt a problem until the volume increased significantly.
Maybe that system would have helped on MV Mahout and saved some money!
Brian

randcmackenzie
20th January 2013, 15:37
The Sea Isle City the missile went thur the bridge blinding the Captain and one of the unlicensed Deck Crew with 17 other crew members where also injured.

When I was on the vessel a few years later when Keystone was operating it. You could still see the track of the missile by the new welds where the damaged areas where cut off and replaced by new steel. It took four months to repair the damage to the ship.


You may be thinking of the one of the other two Kuwait Tankers that were reflagged to the US about the same time.

Joe

Hello Joe.

No, I recall the Sea Isle City quite well, she was the only US flag Kuwaiti ship struck by a missile.

Another hit a mine, and yet another had a serious self induced explosion.

I was aboard Sea Isle City several times, and recall the damaged/unrefitted cabins, but it was some time after the incident, so I'll take your word for the casualty list.

B/R.