Repairing an engine while its running .. TV Program ... Fact or fiction

barnsey
1st June 2011, 10:20
There was a program viewed in the UK by a very good engineer friend ... of Doxford vintage and he wrote in our daily exchange of e-mails amongst friends ....

'Watched a program tonight, which has been on the Mighty Ships series before. The Emma Maersk on a trip from malaysia to Spain. Nothing unusual in that apart from the fact that part way across the Indian Ocean one of her piston rods snapped (14 cylinders). What I found amazing was that they were able to change the rod in 2 hrs, with the engine running and without losing revs????. How on earth they manage this I have no idea. Anyone????'

Of course we have ragged him no end because whilst we don't doubt he saw the program there is seemingly no way you could swap a piston rod while the engine was still running ... what did he miss, what did the program miss ... what didn't they tell us ??

I am but a Navigator, he is but a very good Doxford engineer ... and my they were good ... they had to be didn't they.

Please someone put us all out of our misery and tell us how its done ... IF ITS DONE. (Ouch)

clevewyn
1st June 2011, 11:04
Well it`s a great story anywayB\)

billyboy
1st June 2011, 12:29
Well it`s a great story anywayB\)


(Applause) LOve the swinging lamp

gordy
1st June 2011, 12:32
Broderick Crawford dived into a flooded running steam engine crankcase and pulled some cotton waste out of the drain. (In a movie:sweat:)

barnsey
1st June 2011, 12:45
We have a group of 8 or so lads, all sane and experienced seafarers or with a background connected with the sea as apprentices. We e-mail everyday and yes we do swing a yarn or two with the Deck mob hounding our poor Doxford lad ...true. We have all fallen about laughing at this story but .... its seemingly true ....and in this day and age where anything is possible we just cannot for certain say he was seeing things ....there are some clever procedures out there and theres a horrible feeling that somehow this might just have an element of truth in it .... I'm not at all happy. It maybe that the TV program got it wrong but my Doxford bloke is really uncertain ... he is definite thats what went on .... it seems it is NOT a hoax.

C'mon everyone get hunting and lets get to the truth....:confused:

Jeff Taylor
1st June 2011, 15:45
I saw that same program on the Emma Maersk, and the narration spoke of "disconnecting" one cylinder so they could repair it while underway. Nice trick but no further explanation was given, and from the noise the engine was apparently still operating while the guys worked. I thought I remembered it being a cracked piston, but no matter.

makko
1st June 2011, 15:53
A lot of modern vessels have an emergency drive which should be powerful enough to drive the ship at a speed sufficent to render the rudder operable. This is usually an electric motor. Needless to say, there is a hydraulic clutch which permits the main engine drive to be disengaged. This would permit the conn rod to be swapped out. It is worth mentioning that the "pipeless" modular design of modern engines, including the bolting of the conn rod to the piston crown facilitates greatly such corrective maintenance.

So, whilst the vessel may have been able to keep underway, albeit at a greatly reduced speed, the main engine was undoubtedly stopped during the repair.

Rgds.
Dave "Diesel Head"!

chadburn
1st June 2011, 16:03
Never saw the programme and have no idea what the Engineroom layout is but it sound's like repairing the engine whilst underway mean's a Father and Son arrangement of propulsion or DE propulsion as Makko has indicated. But I also accept that thing's have "moved on" in the Diesel world since I was at Sea(Jester). I have however dived into the flooded compartment's (like most Engineer's seem to have to during their time at sea) to use the manual overide switch on a Martonair S123/*** after the coil failed.

Derek Roger
1st June 2011, 16:17
Hey people its the 1st of June not April

chadburn
1st June 2011, 16:30
Yup, the crankshaft still has to turn Derek.

Ian J. Huckin
1st June 2011, 16:32
Hey people its the 1st of June not April

Exactly.....

More likely the unit was isolated (p/p lifted) and kept underway until repairs could be made. If the failure involved any mechanical shearing or disconnection then the job would be shut down toot sweet as they say in Slovbodnia......I mean, I know these engines are super slow running but they ain't that slow......(Hippy)

Tmac1720
1st June 2011, 16:36
Ah the secrets of the Brotherhood of the Spanner !! we could tell you how it was done but then we'd have to kill you. (LOL)

chadburn
1st June 2011, 16:52
Engineer's with "hang up's"?

makko
1st June 2011, 17:08
A friend, who has now passed the bar, was on a T&J Harrison vessel which suffered damage to three out of five cylinders during a typhoon! He knew how to "hang" a piston (or "dead leg" an engine as I know it)!

Rgds.
Dave

chadburn
1st June 2011, 17:13
Just had a look at her profile, she has a Steam/ Diesel/ Electric arrangement with motor's that power her propshaft to keep her underway whilst repair's to her SHUTDOWN main engine are carried out after it has been de-clutched.

Satanic Mechanic
1st June 2011, 17:19
Ah the secrets of the Brotherhood of the Spanner !! we could tell you how it was done but then we'd have to kill you. (LOL)

By throwing you into the crankcase of a running engine.



Actually just on that subject a few years ago I had the lub oil pump on and was checking the crankshaft through the doors (engine stopped). I opened one and everything was just in the right position so there was no oil coming out - its pretty impressive.......................

3/E "Thought so - no one could survive in there"

Everyone else "Why are you even thinking that?"


The Emma Maersk I seem to remember does have some sort of motor/ shafty arrangement on its shaft - so I wouldn't rule it out as totally impossible

Pat Kennedy
1st June 2011, 17:34
Send this tale to Mythbusters.
They'll have a go at it , and if it can't be done, well they'll just blow it up anyway.

borderreiver
1st June 2011, 17:45
Maybe they are running on elec motors see under
Emma Mærsk is powered by a Wärtsilä-Sulzer 14RTFLEX96-C engine, currently the world's largest single diesel unit, weighing 2,300 tons and capable of 109,000 horsepower (81 MW) when burning 1,660 US gallons (6,300 l) of heavy fuel oil per hour.[18] The ship has several features to lower environmental damage, some of which include exhaust heat recovery and cogeneration.[19] Some of the exhaust gases are returned to the engine to improve economy and lower emissions,[20] and some are passed through a steam generator which then powers a Dresser-Rand steam turbine and electrical generators to generate electricity. This creates an electrical output of 8.5MW,[21] equivalent to about 12 percent of the main engine power output. Some of this steam is also used directly as shipboard heat.[22] Five diesel generators can together produce 20.8MW,[21] giving a total electric output of 29MW.[9] Two 9MW electric motors also power the main propeller shaft.[21]

Don Matheson
1st June 2011, 18:03
I also watched the programme where they repared the broken piston rod and never even slowed down like a lesser mortal would have to. The Indian C/E never mentioned it again. Had I managed this I would be telling everyone.
Never watched another of the series, its crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don

barnsey
1st June 2011, 23:09
Mornin all .. bright sunny day here in Westport NZ ... and I see everyones had a go on the question ...pretty good goes too.

To sum up your inputs ... my mate was not dreaming then ..the program did take place.

The main engine is a bloody BIG diesel in the traditional sense ..14 legs with lots of Oooomph. The steam and electricity have nothing to do with propelling the ship.

Something happened, a cracked piston not a con rod and one cylinder had to be stopped ..... to me, a simple navigator it seems they just shut the fuel off and opened up the valve to stop any compression and the piston continued to go up and down.

Finally I would agree with Don such programs as Discovery, History and what ever this one was are rubbish. Generated like all media today to draw in the ignorant masses (and sadly, the not so ignorant) to sell the accompanying advertising.

Thanks one and all.

haasenpeter
2nd June 2011, 00:49
hey sailors,
barnsey, you are wrong: it is possible to run the propeller by electricity but they are still searching for a solution of the main problem: the extension cable to the shore based power plug is only 100 meters long :sweat:

fair winds

Peter

eldersuk
2nd June 2011, 01:10
Barnsey, 'the simple navigator', has it just about right. All you can do is hang up the fuel pump (or whatever they do on these electronic gadgets) but the piston is still going up and down and until the engine is stopped there's not a hell of a lot you can do with it.

Derek

Derek Roger
2nd June 2011, 01:40
A brocken piston rod can not be repaired with the engine running even in Formula 1 . Never seen such drivel on the site before . Still think someone thinks its April 1 st .

Malky Glaister
2nd June 2011, 01:55
I had to remove a con rod from the B&W engine on a Maersk tanker so that we could proceed to Singapore for repairs. The engine had to be stopped. Copenhagen went mad saying they could have done the trip without it's removal. They could not tell me how though. So they MUST have done it on EMMA, but how.
They don't even like Marmite.

regards Malky

Mike S
2nd June 2011, 03:12
I saw the same program...........it was not a piston it was a holding down bolt. She reduced to 50 rpm.

Satanic Mechanic
2nd June 2011, 05:16
I saw the same program...........it was not a piston it was a holding down bolt. She reduced to 50 rpm.

Gonnae somebody find out for definite what was on this show and while they are at it what exactly is the configuration of the Emma Maersk shafting

Malky Glaister
2nd June 2011, 05:59
Loads of info on Emma Maersk on Google. One pic shows a shaft motor/generator set.

No idea what was on the TV show.

regards Malky

Doug Shaw
2nd June 2011, 06:40
I saw the program and I'm certain the commentator said that the crew changed a piston with the engine running. I believe that what they actually changed was a tie rod.

Regards
Doug

Alex Salmond
2nd June 2011, 11:13
I also watched the programme where they repared the broken piston rod and never even slowed down like a lesser mortal would have to. The Indian C/E never mentioned it again. Had I managed this I would be telling everyone.
Never watched another of the series, its crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don

Don,maybe Old Ranjit was just being modest and thought we could all suss it out for ourselves,being smart guys and all,
I never saw this program but as someone else has stated a lot of these programs are big on AMAZING THINGS happening but never quite get round to explaining how ,a load of W@@k if you ask me ,which your not,
But in my former capacity as an ever so ,umble greaser although a lot of the finer points of marine engineering sailed right over my head,If any 2nd ginger beer had said "Alex,come and help me in this crankcase I know the engine is still running but you ,ll be sweet "i would have replied "Sec with the greatest of respect go F##@ yourself"sounds like a load of old cobblers to me.

chadburn
2nd June 2011, 11:40
Any Engineer's work on the Father and Son engine's set up?

makko
2nd June 2011, 13:11
Saw aprog last night that spoke about rogue waves - A subject that interests me as I have witnessed them and they were not acknowledged officially until 2004. The point was that they kept talking about the loss of ships, ships and more ships - All 40' to 50' fishing boats! More of the same I'm afraid!
Rgds.
Dave

Derek Roger
2nd June 2011, 16:07
I saw the program and I'm certain the commentator said that the crew changed a piston with the engine running. I believe that what they actually changed was a tie rod.

Regards
Doug

That makes more sence . Derek

clevewyn
2nd June 2011, 16:56
Here it is lads.

Start the video off then move it on to the 32 minute mark.

Lady commentatorB\)

http://megavideo.com/?v=WNXACYK8

chadburn
2nd June 2011, 17:59
Now I have seen the video it does make more sense as a change of Tie Rod, interesting that the film appear's to be out of sequence as at the beginning it show's them cleaning a rod down, unless the Chief is working to the Chief's "mantra". Failure to prepare is to prepare to fail.(*)) with the hope that it could have been done alongside in Spain.

Satanic Mechanic
2nd June 2011, 19:54
Bah!! it was just a tie rod, but really you would have thought they might have done a bit of research. There is two things which annoy me about Discovery and their ilk firstly the lack of accuracy - this only becomes evident on subjects you know about - so i must assume it applies to all subjects. Secondly , and you get this more with the American commentary, the over wrought , over dramatisation of otherwise mundane events plus the use of what ever unit of measurement gives the highest number "Everyone watches nervously as the cook puts the 5,000,000 microgram egg in the water boiling at almost 400 Kelvin"(Cloud)

petetee
2nd June 2011, 22:28
Broderick Crawford dived into a flooded running steam engine crankcase and pulled some cotton waste out of the drain. (In a movie:sweat:)

Cargo to Capetown!!!

MARINEJOCKY
2nd June 2011, 22:29
SM, you have spent to much time in Norway looking over your shoulders, come over here and I will make sure nothing sneaks up on you and you will get used to our units, 5,000,000 no big deal but I doubt if any one american knows what a Kelvin is.

Are you talking about the Grove or a P6.

barnsey
3rd June 2011, 08:45
Thanks very much indeed for the video Clevwyn ... thats that little excercise boxed up ..... a Tie Rod ....and a little one at that ... we had one bust on Clyde Ranger crossing the Aussie Bight ... engineers spotted the top nut floating ...as per this video ... they reduced speed and we carried onto Adelaide where the offending piece was tripped out, welded and all put back but that was a big job they took two cylinders down to do that ...on a 6 legged B&W ...

My mate was dead right though they said a piston rod .. you never can tell in this day and age ...certainly are some things we would never have believed 40 year ago happening now.

Thanks everyone for some very entertaining threads and once again SN solves the question...

You can all rest a while .... I'll dream something else up... stand by

Tmac1720
3rd June 2011, 13:20
Just picture the poor overworked Chief Engineer toiling away over a hot engine (OK, OK I know this never happens) while being continually pestered by an inebriated deckie type person continually asking what's wrong. The exasperated Chief eventually tells the deckie... "Piston broke"... to which the deckie responds "I know I am but what's wrong with the engine?" ............ I'll just get my coat (Wave)

chadburn
3rd June 2011, 22:00
Not on foreign owned vessel's Chief's were/are expected to be "Hand's On" even when I was at sea and I would think even more so on today's manning level's.

Macphail
3rd June 2011, 23:43
With Hain Nourse you had the McCorkindale brothers, both Chief Engineers.
One was "Dead Slow", you had a problem , stop and fix it.
The other was "Full Ahead", do not stop, slow down maybe.
I remember once, on a unit, the rocker arm tappet adjustment had slackend off, (At dinner time.), Jim would not stop. We had the sight of engineers in "Red Sea Rig", jumping up and down with spanners, it never worked.

Does anyboby remember the McCorkindale brothers.

John

Mike S
4th June 2011, 10:34
CAn you engineering types just clear upa small pedantic point for me. I was always told that particular object was a "Holding Down Bolt". Is that the same thing as a "Tie Rod?" Is it a case of "Same Dog/Different leg"?
I am sure my old Dad always called them the former .....just curious. Regardless I have to agree the some of the BS on that program in unbelievable

Satanic Mechanic
4th June 2011, 10:43
CAn you engineering types just clear upa small pedantic point for me. I was always told that particular object was a "Holding Down Bolt". Is that the same thing as a "Tie Rod?" Is it a case of "Same Dog/Different leg"?
I am sure my old Dad always called them the former .....just curious. Regardless I have to agree the some of the BS on that program in unbelievable


Nah different animals- the holding down bolts are around the bottom of the engine and essentially bolt the engine to the hull. The tie bolts/rods run through the engine and hold the entablature together.

Mike S
5th June 2011, 10:05
Ah right......thanks for that. Hence my incorrect description in my previous post. One thing is for sure it ain't no piston!!! (Thumb)
I will now return to muttering about right ascension and great circles. (Smoke)

barnsey
5th June 2011, 11:10
Stop swearing Mike ... especially in the august company of Doxford gingerbeers and the like ....but most particularly me ... I hated theoretical Nav and still do....Right Ascension be damned ..... and as for Great Circle courses ....they get you into more trouble than they are worth .....never sailed one yet ( out of two) that saved anything, got into terrible weather in the Southern Ocean and doubled the loss.

jimthehat
5th June 2011, 16:08
Stop swearing Mike ... especially in the august company of Doxford gingerbeers and the like ....but most particularly me ... I hated theoretical Nav and still do....Right Ascension be damned ..... and as for Great Circle courses ....they get you into more trouble than they are worth .....never sailed one yet ( out of two) that saved anything, got into terrible weather in the Southern Ocean and doubled the loss.

Theoretical Nav?/
I thought the subject was principles of navigation?.great circle asked about them on the Arcadia they just shove a few details into the computer and out pops initial and final course and distance,does composite just as easy,it was the same senior 2/0 who told me that he no idea what a deviascope was,sad

Mike S
6th June 2011, 05:55
Sorry about that Barnsey.......I will go and wash my mouth out with a good single malt. (Pint)

johnjames06
14th June 2011, 22:56
Did they mean that they stopped the engine, disconnected the big end, suspended the piston, restarted the engine and the worked on the repair. In the RN it's called slinging the piston. It allows you to run an engine with a piston out of use.

Macphail
14th June 2011, 23:29
The "Glenorchy" was a twin screw B&W double actor. We had a piston failure on the port engine in the Red Sea. It was decided to change the piston whilst the starboard engine was still running. Down the shaft tunnel there was a heavy duty shaft strap/clamp. (Preventing the engine free wheeling off the running engine. ). This was hammered up by "Big Latch", 3rd Engineer, who would be doing the main work in the crankcase.
The bottom nut was a big hammer up job, with "Fryingpan" and the "Stick Mic" to get the rod extension right.
The 3rd Engineer being the engine man, he was steaming, boiler suit drenched in sweat, being cooled down by ice buckets from the brine room, salt tabs by the handfull.

John

uisdean mor
15th June 2011, 14:23
This thread started over misrepresentation by some TV production crew about one of the Maersk super boxes.


Biggest engine I ever worked with was on the Oloibiri - nigerian but specced for Greeks ( trying to copy Norwegians) ordered for Indians built in what was Jugoslavia and fitted out in Italy. Manuals were a work of art and about as much use as an ashtray on a sidecar. Anyway the tale of wore that was/is Oloibiri is on here somewhere. Snapping a tie rod was no problem to us as the engines had been built in Jugoslavia from "bits" made in USSR and they still put a B&W badge on them. No real science involved, no simple engineering nouse used just a run down workshop with basic drawings and they made them.
It was not unusual for a cylinder head to actually leave the entablature and either land again (with consquent damage) or to take off on a wee wander across the engine tops where damage became significant. Problem was the tie studs had never been machined with releiving diameters and stress was transmitted directly into the last piece of thread on the stud. Consequence was snapping studs - and wandering heads. All good fun but shoreside electricians got a right cob on once when a head went walkabout while they had one of our main generators bolted down on the tops with various ( seemingly) miles of copper wire and tensioners actually rerwinding the generator on board. needles to say a right old mess but that was normal for the Oloibiri and many acts of - you call it - heroism or lunacy were performed in order to keep that disaster trading. It broke many a good engineer.
Rgds
Uisdean.

Don Matheson
15th June 2011, 14:42
Having sailed on a few Dutch built ships (mostly supply ships and one container ship) I have from experience been able to solve the changing parts while the engine is still running, this is I believe the only way it can be done!!
First take a cockroach (trained in engineering) but with the strength of a gorrilla. He needs to be good in a breathing apperatus and wear a slicker suit. Give him an oilproof drawing and let him go. Apart from that forget it.
Twin engined ship had it running with one 12 and one 11 cyl engines. Started the 11 cyl for manouvering or for emergency quicky shut down when not required>

Don
The reference to Dutch built ships was not based on engineering problems but on the space required to work on anything, there wasnt any.

CFL
9th July 2011, 17:52
What they changed was a cylinder head stud!

Paul Barford
19th July 2011, 16:18
What they changed was a cylinder head stud!

At last ! (Applause)
Someone got it right. Having read through this thread find it amazing so much talk about that video. I too watch it and laughed at this bit, although found the rest of the documentary watchable.

Currently sailing on this type of engine, only mine are a little smaller and have two of them to give 45300bhp.

The broken item was indeed a cylinder head stud, NOT a piston rod, tie rod or 'holding down bolt'. Engine developement has advanced greatly, but there is not an engine available that can suffer a broken piston rod and the replacement be carried out underway, with the same engine running!
A broken tie rod would be left until the engine is stopped before replacement and this is a much bigger job if done correctly, besides, the tie rod bolts are almost as high as the engine- not what can be seen in the video. The bottom cap of the tie rod is in the crankcase anyway on most slow speed engines.

Just for clarity, the holding down bolts are on the tank tops i.e. under the bottom floor plates and are relatively small-easily repalced.

Derek Roger
20th July 2011, 02:44
A lot of rubbish about nothing . We all figured it out a long time ago . Derek

chadburn
20th July 2011, 13:12
At last ! (Applause)
Someone got it right. Having read through this thread find it amazing so much talk about that video. I too watch it and laughed at this bit, although found the rest of the documentary watchable.

Currently sailing on this type of engine, only mine are a little smaller and have two of them to give 45300bhp.

The broken item was indeed a cylinder head stud, NOT a piston rod, tie rod or 'holding down bolt'. Engine developement has advanced greatly, but there is not an engine available that can suffer a broken piston rod and the replacement be carried out underway, with the same engine running!
A broken tie rod would be left until the engine is stopped before replacement and this is a much bigger job if done correctly, besides, the tie rod bolts are almost as high as the engine- not what can be seen in the video. The bottom cap of the tie rod is in the crankcase anyway on most slow speed engines.

Just for clarity, the holding down bolts are on the tank tops i.e. under the bottom floor plates and are relatively small-easily repalced.

However, this single engined vessel's Main Engine can be repaired whilst the vessel is still underway. The reason for this is because they have a seperate Diesel/Electric drive to the the Prop Shaft ( the power source coming from the ship's genny's) to keep the flow of water across the rudder and control the direction of the vessel in the event of a main engine stoppage. The main engine is STOPPED and de-clutched/dis-connected from the propshaft with the D/E drive taking over (at a reduced ship's speed) when most repair's can be carried out on the M/E. This is a cheaper method of getting around the problem of keeping forward motion on a single engined vessel with a M/E breakdown than the Japanese "Father and Son" engine layout which is as you know is important especially with a Box Boat and so much potential Top Hamper.

Frank Moorhouse
25th July 2011, 00:42
I too saw this programme and wondered like everyone else. On a second viewing it appeared to me that the piston rod in question was actually the push rod of a hydraulically operated exhaust valve, and although these gadgets are after my time I think my theory holds water.

wharferat
2nd September 2011, 10:26
CFL is correct, it's a cylinder head stud, but I rather doubt that it was 6 m long, it certainly doesn't look it in the video. Having had to change one on the Maersk Santana, 12RT-Flex 96c, I can vouch for it being possible whilst under way, although we did slow down for most of the operation, & briefly stop whilst hydraullically tightening the nut, 5 minutes or so with the telegraph at Stop. As for re-routing the fuel, b*****. The unit would have had the power switched off so that the rail v/v's wouldn't open to inject fuel, & didn't I hear something about them reducing speed to 50 rpm, that would keep the exhaust temperatures below maximum until No. 14 was switched back on & speed was increased. With the amount of mis-information/fantasy from the narrator (piston rod drives the cylinder head up & down????????), I was half expecting Harry Potter to make an appearance.

skilly57
20th September 2011, 05:50
Very interesting engine on the 'Emma Maersk' - according to the 'commentatoress', "the piston rod made the cylinder head go up and down". A really new design obviously, and one for which I have yet to see any drawings!:-)
Skilly

barnsey
20th September 2011, 08:22
She obviously had seen Doxfords ..... they wern't very good at making cylinder heads go up and down all the time ....


Errr ... will now duck for cover ...

arkwright
2nd October 2011, 20:11
Managed to change a fuel pump on a Mitsubishi UE engine whilst underway coming down the Mississippi many years ago.

The No.6 pump had seized shortly after leaving the berth and when I phoned the bridge to ask for us to either return to the berth or anchor so we could change it out, was told no chance until we had dropped the pilot.
Managed to lift the fuel pump completely so the cam follower would not drop back down and then started to get the tools ready and spare pump standing by.
Everything standing by, but still hours until we would be stopping, so shut the individual fuel supply valve to the pump and got the guys to remove the HP fuel line and the spill line.
Then thought "sod-it, whats stopping us" - so unbolted the pump itself, lifted it off and fitted the spare.
Pipework back on, pump bled through and then supply valve opened and pump warmed up (running on HFO).
Finally called the bridge again and asked them if we could come down to minimum revs for a couple of minutes which they agreed to. - Put the spanner on the cam follower lifting device when we were down to well below Dead Slow RPM and managed to drop the cam follower down nice and easy.
Engine started firing on all legs almost immediately, so next call to the bridge was to tell them they could have whatever revs they wanted and by the way the engineers would all be in the bar as soon as the pilot was off !!!

Nice days work from the team

Doubt we could do it again these days mind as no-one would sign the permit or agree with the isolation / risk assessment

Chris Kisch
29th October 2011, 16:17
Very nearly had a nasty in 1974- Maria Elisa. One of the delegated jobs of the third is to take out/reinsert the gudgeon pin and remove piston from con-rod?

This one had had too many sherbets (I think it was at Ensenada). Was on the bridge . OM asked me to phone the ER to do a prop turn prior to singling up.

Next thing , phone rings. "ER here. Got an engineer trapped in the crank case"- Can you give us a few mins......." Next thing we see is the Third throwing himself off the ship....You guessed what happened....Third had gone to sleep in the nether regions of the crank case. 6 hours later explosion doors refitted (Piston Crown reconnected by 4th (who had thought that the Third was sleeping it off (but not in the crank case)). How the hell the guy did not wake up sooner, 'cos the engine has to be prewarmed....Anyways it was a Doxford Engine and had a view port at the head of the engine where the control levers were. Apparently the sight of the Third's face filling the view port was really something.......


By throwing you into the crankcase of a running engine.



Actually just on that subject a few years ago I had the lub oil pump on and was checking the crankshaft through the doors (engine stopped). I opened one and everything was just in the right position so there was no oil coming out - its pretty impressive.......................

3/E "Thought so - no one could survive in there"

Everyone else "Why are you even thinking that?"


The Emma Maersk I seem to remember does have some sort of motor/ shafty arrangement on its shaft - so I wouldn't rule it out as totally impossible

steamer659
13th November 2011, 18:17
I agree with Derek Roger- I have NEVER heard such drivel either- Face it; (and this is coming from an ACTIVE CHIEF ENGINEER who is currently aboard one of the fastest cargo ships afloat).

Removing a piston or piston rod or connecting rod or crosshead or even trying to disconnect one of these from a moving engine is IMPOSSIBLE. Changing a fuel pump assembly when cut out from a running camshaft is one thing.....

martinpf
24th November 2011, 21:08
I saw that programme, what they actually did was to replace a broken cylinder head stud with the engine running. A case of the commentry getting the terms wrong. This was only possible because of the position of the broken stud, if it had been under the exhaust connection they would not habe been able to tighten the nut on the stud as there would have been no space for the hydraulic jack.

It is possible to do various repair jobs with the engine running and it can be necessary to avoid loosing time on a tight schedule. I have changed a fuel pump on a wartsilla 12RTA96C engine without stopping for example.

Satanic Mechanic
24th November 2011, 21:26
Just so as no one is getting this wrong - the theory was (without seeing the film) that they had some sort of clutch / motor arrangement on the shaft so that the piston may have been pulled with the engine stopped bu the vessel still moving. Having now seen the film turns out it was just the usual crap discovery commentry

chadburn
25th November 2011, 12:49
I agree with Derek Roger- I have NEVER heard such drivel either- Face it; (and this is coming from an ACTIVE CHIEF ENGINEER who is currently aboard one of the fastest cargo ships afloat).

Removing a piston or piston rod or connecting rod or crosshead or even trying to disconnect one of these from a moving engine is IMPOSSIBLE. Changing a fuel pump assembly when cut out from a running camshaft is one thing.....

See my #15 steamer, I looked at her Engineroom spec after I watched the film, does your vessel have a standby propultion arrangement? The Japanese at one time brought out the Father&Son engine arrangement where a number of combination's of "running" could be carried out via a G/box and clutches, are they still around?

Satanic Mechanic
25th November 2011, 17:53
See my #15 steamer, I looked at her Engineroom spec after I watched the film, does your vessel have a standby propultion arrangement? The Japanese at one time brought out the Father&Son engine arrangement where a number of combination's of "running" could be carried out via a G/box and clutches, are they still around?

Same same but different (*))
The DFlex and QMax series of LNG carriers are twin engine/shaft jobs with clutches so you can run on one engine and potentially work on the other if need be. What it really means is that the vessel is never disabled so you can carry out work at anchor on one engine without contravening port regs etc.

mpr41410
21st April 2012, 01:00
hey sailors,
barnsey, you are wrong: it is possible to run the propeller by electricity but they are still searching for a solution of the main problem: the extension cable to the shore based power plug is only 100 meters long :sweat:

fair winds

PeterI worked ashore with BP and there was a disciplinary. One C/E didn't quite understand the coding used by the new computer system (1970s)for ordering and had wanted 50 metres of HD cable to renew the cable from one of the t/as to the main busbars, he actually ordered a kilometre and it wasn't picked up until it was delivered on tyneside.
The trial was in the morning and, so the story goes, the chief supt., ex spitfire pilot with initials SS was talking to the rest of the judges (who wanted to get the guy off the hook) when the electrical supt with the initials BA said "S*****, chief just wanted to hold sea trials on shore power". Apparently they didn't stop laughing for several hours and C/E got a slapped wrist.
Don't you love a story with a happy ending. The cable did get used but that's another story.

Fred Field
25th March 2013, 01:22
I saw the program.
'They' did say 'piston rod' but it was in fact a tie bolt and it was acknowledged in the program that the vessel did have to make up time because of the repair.

Riptide
2nd April 2013, 18:12
EEEE. And Surgeons do it all the time.Work on the engine while its still running.Kenny.

Fred Field
2nd April 2013, 19:33
EEEE. And Surgeons do it all the time.Work on the engine while its still running.Kenny.

Yes but when surgeons replace a main circ pump they have to rig up a temporary one. In that particular instance Class Rules require a 'standby' so that would not be needed. However in the case of the central nervous system it seems that no 'bypass' is currently available to transmit the nerve signals, a bit like a piston rod or crankshaft in a diesel engine, you have to shut it down to get at it!

skilly57
28th November 2014, 08:22
Mike - you are correct - it was not a piston rod.
Fortunately, I had recorded the program on MySky because I was away when it screened. When I watched it later, it was one of the long cylinder head through bolts, and I then replayed it a couple of times before deciding I was listening to and watching a load of absolute crap and promptly deleted the program.

The actual filming and footage is totally correct, and very interesting, because they cannot get that bit wrong. However, the facts in the commentary are often absolute & total bull-shite!! They obviously don't have enough collective intelligence to consider running a proof-screening for a couple of members of a maritime engineering college staff, or even the ship's engineer's, before they cut & edit the final print for production.

They have ballsed up a number of the 'World's Greatest Ship's documentaries in the same manner, which then makes them look a very amateurish production when viewed by knowledgeable sea-going technical staff.

The 'Air Crash Investigation' programs seem to make very few errors compared to the maritime productions.
Skilly

little.O
28th November 2014, 14:33
Hello.
It's my first post on here,and I also saw the programme.The part in question,which they showed,looked like a large stud about right size for head bolt.
I've watched previous items in this seies and they are good at applying incorrect I/D's to various things .This same commentator previously had no idea which was the piston and which was the cylinder.He refered to cylinders going up and down at a rate of knots!

Dickyboy
28th November 2014, 15:34
I saw that program first time around and was waiting for someone to mention a Clacker Valve.....

Kaiser Bill
1st December 2014, 02:52
Wow ! the gingerbeers are having a field day with this, us poor deckie layabouts haven't a clue, but, what about gynaecologists who tamper with lady bits while she's still breathing.?

little.O
2nd December 2014, 11:18
Hi Bill, Yes but ladybits don't weigh hundreds of tons and fly round at eight hundred times a minute.Well not normally anyway!

Farmer John
2nd December 2014, 17:59
Hi Bill, Yes but ladybits don't weigh hundreds of tons and fly round at eight hundred times a minute.Well not normally anyway!

Be careful what you wish for.